Author Topic: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!  (Read 14538 times)

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Offline Mo

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2011, 08:21:28 PM »
I should do ground becuase Shadow has no teeth (only inscissors and fangs). So this would be easier for her.
Though I really dont want to buy a grinder, and do all that grinding. :-\

I don't have much time to reply right now, but I am transitioning Wilda to prey model raw (chunks of meat/bone/organ) right now...and she is missing several teeth.  She so far has been doing just fine with the chunks as long as I stick with small bones such as ribs.

Offline Amber

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2011, 11:36:39 PM »
Shadow,

I do not currently own a grinder. If you do not wish/are not able to purchase one, ground is still an option. You can run boneless meats through a food processor or blender, and then add your own supplements (including a calcium source like bonemeal or eggshells) or add a premix like Instincts TC or Alnutrin instead. Though with the food processor, I recommend using one with a wide, thick blade and pulsing because otherwise you end up with chicken/turkey/whatever paste instead of a grind. If that does happen, thats okay, just use a fork to mix in the water and supplements and mix it very well. The results will be a thick, stew-like consistency.

Offline Lola

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2011, 10:44:40 AM »
Keep talking about the different raw options.  One of these days SOMETHING is going to click for me.  Ground raw sounds waaaaay more up my alley!  I'd like to try a brand that I can purchase at a store first...to see how well raw is accepted.  And get me used to it. 
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Offline Mo

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2011, 11:17:51 AM »
Do you guys all freeze your food first for a few weeks before feeding it?
How many ounces would I feed per meal?
How do I start out?
How do I start without them getting sick, or poopies?

1.  I feed both fresh meat and stuff that has been frozen for a while.  Today the farm cats are getting chicken that I need to buy today, last night they had a pack of chicken gizzards that had been in the freezer for several months.  It varies from one day to the next, depending on what I buy fresh that day, or what I dig out of the freezer.  Yes, my cats have their very own freezer Bumpurr1

2.  It depends on the size of the cat.  The "boys" (Morey, Mitch, Malachi, Rodent) are allowed to eat all they want at each meal which can mean eight ounces sometimes.  Mikey, who has a very sensitive stomach, is only allowed three ounces at each meal, else he overeats and it comes back up.

3.  You don't feed any dry food, right?  Then it is safe to mix a few tiny chunks of meat in with their canned at each meal and see if they are willing to go for that.  http://rawfedcats.org/practicalguide.htm has a list of several bribe foods to disguise the raw with as well.

4.  I prefer to start with more mild meats such as chicken or turkey.  Chicken breast is a very easy meat for cats to eat, it has almost a buttery texture.  With most of the farm cats I threw a lot of variety at them at once, and that also worked out just fine.  If you don't want them to end up with diarrhea (and who does?) do not the organ meat for a little while, let them get used to regular meat first.  I still only feed organ meat when they are eating something with bone, it works better for them that way.
Quote

Im just wondering if all stores only sell frozen cornish game hens? that is all I have found. I have been told to thaw it just a bit them seperate it, then refreeze the rest, as I know I wouldnt be able to use it up fast enough.

I have only seen frozen Cornish Game Hens at the grocery store.  You can let it thaw enough to cut it up, and then refreeze the size portions that you want to feed. 


Offline Lola

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2011, 11:42:20 AM »
Quote
It depends on the size of the cat.  The "boys" (Morey, Mitch, Malachi, Rodent) are allowed to eat all they want at each meal which can mean eight ounces sometimes. 

They don't get fat?
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Offline Mo

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2011, 12:03:43 PM »
They don't get fat?

No.  Morey and Mitch are big cats (13 and 14 pounds) but it is muscle, not fat.  They burn it all off immediatly after eating during their 'crazy time' when the only safe place for me is sitting somewhere out of their way.  They appear to be trying to learn how to fly Doh1  They'll jump from the top of the file cabinet, to the desk three feet away, to the chair  that is four feet away, to the top of the recliner another six feet away - in the time span of 1.5 seconds.  Then they'll chase each other around the house, run full speed ahead onto the carpet in the hallway, and see how far they can make it slide.  Repeat that whole thing 20 times, and then it is nap time for them.  You'd think I fed them caffiene for breakfast purplekat tennis1 tiggerbounce

Offline Lola

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2011, 12:42:32 PM »
No.  Morey and Mitch are big cats (13 and 14 pounds) but it is muscle, not fat.  They burn it all off immediatly after eating during their 'crazy time' when the only safe place for me is sitting somewhere out of their way.  They appear to be trying to learn how to fly Doh1  They'll jump from the top of the file cabinet, to the desk three feet away, to the chair  that is four feet away, to the top of the recliner another six feet away - in the time span of 1.5 seconds.  Then they'll chase each other around the house, run full speed ahead onto the carpet in the hallway, and see how far they can make it slide.  Repeat that whole thing 20 times, and then it is nap time for them.  You'd think I fed them caffiene for breakfast purplekat tennis1 tiggerbounce

Learning how to fly...THAT is prettttttty funny!   funny2
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Offline Shadow

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2011, 03:35:54 PM »
1.  I feed both fresh meat and stuff that has been frozen for a while.  Today the farm cats are getting chicken that I need to buy today, last night they had a pack of chicken gizzards that had been in the freezer for several months.  It varies from one day to the next, depending on what I buy fresh that day, or what I dig out of the freezer.  Yes, my cats have their very own freezer Bumpurr1

2.  It depends on the size of the cat.  The "boys" (Morey, Mitch, Malachi, Rodent) are allowed to eat all they want at each meal which can mean eight ounces sometimes.  Mikey, who has a very sensitive stomach, is only allowed three ounces at each meal, else he overeats and it comes back up.

3.  You don't feed any dry food, right?  Then it is safe to mix a few tiny chunks of meat in with their canned at each meal and see if they are willing to go for that.  http://rawfedcats.org/practicalguide.htm has a list of several bribe foods to disguise the raw with as well.

4.  I prefer to start with more mild meats such as chicken or turkey.  Chicken breast is a very easy meat for cats to eat, it has almost a buttery texture.  With most of the farm cats I threw a lot of variety at them at once, and that also worked out just fine.  If you don't want them to end up with diarrhea (and who does?) do not the organ meat for a little while, let them get used to regular meat first.  I still only feed organ meat when they are eating something with bone, it works better for them that way.
I have only seen frozen Cornish Game Hens at the grocery store.  You can let it thaw enough to cut it up, and then refreeze the size portions that you want to feed. 


  Great link Mo thanks, and my cats do not get dry food. They get the odd treat of dehydrated chicken once in a while, not every day.  thanks for all your info :) this is going to happen soon for my cats I hope, going to offer them some tonight and see what happens.
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Offline Amber

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2011, 12:17:20 AM »
Quote
Keep talking about the different raw options.  One of these days SOMETHING is going to click for me.  Ground raw sounds waaaaay more up my alley!  I'd like to try a brand that I can purchase at a store first...to see how well raw is accepted.  And get me used to it.

There are a few reasons that I choose to feed ground instead of frankenprey. I was feeding ground in the beginning because I was worried about balance and with ground food, I could use a premix to make sure she was getting everything she needed. Once I gained a little confidence, I swapped to frankenprey and she ate that for more than a year. I swapped back to ground by no choice of my own. One of my younger cousins got food poisoning (from a restaurant, not from my house, I am very fastidious and she hadn't been there for months) and when her parents brought her over, they started to freak out about the raw chicken thigh sitting on a plate by the refrigerator. That got pretty much the whole family started and the family member I live with insisted that I either put her back on canned food, or find a new place to live.  >:( He changed his mind after about a month and a half, because he couldn't stand the litterbox smell when she was eating canned (there is virtually no odor at all when she is eating raw)  funny2 but was adamant that I had to feed her the ground because he didn't want her dragging raw chicken pieces across his floor.

After a while, I was thinking about pushing to get her back on frankenprey for her dental health, but after further research, decided that I am just not comfortable with that.  Yes, cats eat whole prey in the wild, but their natural prey items are things like mice, squirrels, songbirds, and lizards. They might get the occasional rabbit. All of these things have much smaller bones than a grocery store chicken or turkey, so I am not confident about letting Amber eat bones that are so large. I would be fine with something like small quail and cornish hens, but both of those things are expensive and not readily available to me, and amber won't touch whole mice. She might eat them ground, but putting a rodent in my food processor is where I draw the line.  :P

Also, I don't necessarily buy into the idea that ground needs supplements but frankenprey doesn't.  If you use the 80:10:10(5:5) ratio when grinding the food, it contains the exact same things in it that a frankenprey diet does. Why would this have a negative effect on anything, except dental health? I do not understand. I feel like if the ingredients are the same, either both need the supplements or neither one does. I feel that it is probably the latter, but I supplement anyway, for peace of mind.

 cat3

Offline Mo

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2011, 12:35:52 AM »

Also, I don't necessarily buy into the idea that ground needs supplements but frankenprey doesn't.  If you use the 80:10:10(5:5) ratio when grinding the food, it contains the exact same things in it that a frankenprey diet does. Why would this have a negative effect on anything, except dental health? I do not understand. I feel like if the ingredients are the same, either both need the supplements or neither one does. I feel that it is probably the latter, but I supplement anyway, for peace of mind.

Grinding does end up destroying nutrients, so it is a good thing you are adding them back in :)

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/just-what-is-raw-feeding-anyway?start=1
Quote
Supplements
 This is perhaps the wrong word to use, as they aren't just supplemental, they are required. These are added to make up for the fact that usually the whole animal is not being used, and that grinding and freezing does cause some loss of nutrients. Supplements added include taurine, B vitamins, vitamin E and essential fatty acids. Many of these are found in the head of the animal, specifically in brains and eyes, and the head is not always included in the mix. Ever wonder why a cat eats the head of the mouse first? He knows what's good for him!

Offline Lola

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2011, 09:45:00 AM »
There is just soooo much info "out there," that the idea (and process) is over-whelming...for me.

I have "issues" about feeding raw bodies or body parts.  AND there is the added worry about not including the correct body parts and organs, or the correct supplements in the correct amounts.    

I'm hardly a fan of pet food manufactures, but I also fear doing worse!  I've read and read and read some more about raw feeding.  I know it is DEFINITELY the better route.  I just have to find a starting point.  

A simple starting point, would be great...if there is such a thing.

There HAS to be others out there, that when they hear "raw," their eyes bug out.   :o  I can't be the ONLY one.   Bumpurr1



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Offline Mo

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2011, 10:03:27 AM »
There is just soooo much info "out there," that the idea (and process) is over-whelming...for me.

I have "issues" about feeding raw bodies or body parts.  AND there is the added worry about not including the correct body parts and organs, or the correct supplements in the correct amounts.    

A simple starting point, would be great...if there is such a thing.


You have issues with handling raw meat?  I almost fainted the first few times when handling it whistle1

Something easy you could start out with:

Go to the grocery store and get some chicken breast meat.  Here they either have a 3 pound package worth, or you can buy the amount you want from the meat counter.  Chicken breast meat has an almost buttery texture - it is very easy for cats to chew through.  Cut up the meat into tiny pieces anything from one ounce or so tiny you can easily hide it in the canned food.  Just don't let it be to big of a piece or it may seem daunting to your cats.  Put it on their plate, either mixed in with their canned, or on the side with some canned smeared over it, at feeding time.  See what they do with it.  Personally, I don't worry about getting it balanced for a few weeks - I want them confident eating plain meat before giving them harder things like chicken ribs to get through.












Offline Pookie

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2011, 11:00:48 AM »
There is just soooo much info "out there," that the idea (and process) is over-whelming...for me.

I have "issues" about feeding raw bodies or body parts.  AND there is the added worry about not including the correct body parts and organs, or the correct supplements in the correct amounts.    

I'm hardly a fan of pet food manufactures, but I also fear doing worse!  I've read and read and read some more about raw feeding.  I know it is DEFINITELY the better route.  I just have to find a starting point.  

A simple starting point, would be great...if there is such a thing.

There HAS to be others out there, that when they hear "raw," their eyes bug out.   :o  I can't be the ONLY one.   Bumpurr1
You’re not alone there, Lola.  That’s why Pookie is still mainly can-fed.  I am so afraid of messing up the raw (over-supplementing, not supplementing enough, finding organs, where is the food sourced, and on and on and on . . . .) that even though I know it’s better to feed all raw, I haven’t really taken the plunge.  The raw he gets is his bed-time snack, not a full meal.  That’s all I can manage at this point.  But the fear of messing up is why I decided to see if he could handle a mouse.  It’s hard to mess up when it’s a complete, “all-in-one” snack.   ;D

What Mo suggested is how I got started.  I cut up some chicken tenders from the supermarket, very small, and offered a piece to Pookie and his sister.  She knew what to do with it right away, but I had to hold it for him several times before he finally realized it was food.  After that, I gave them small pieces of raw chicken tenders as their bedtime treat.

The next step was to feed the chicken hearts, gizzards and liver, which I could get at the supermarket.  I don’t really feed the livers anymore (sometimes he has a problem with them), but he gets the hearts/gizzards about twice a week.  I still have a couple of mice left, and I may get a few more.  But I’m not completely comfortable with it.  My hope is I’ll get used to it like I did with the hearts/gizzards.  But the first time I was packaging the hearts, I had to keep telling myself “this is cat food . . . this is cat food . . .”  I don’t even really think about it now.

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Offline Shadow

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2011, 03:18:54 PM »
Was making beef stir fry last night for our dinner and Wilson wanted the steak so much he tore it out of my hand. Shadow not so much, but after I cooked it a bit she was going crazy over it. Grrrr....just testing the waters so to speak.
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Offline Amber

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Re: Let's kick-start the raw feeding section!
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2011, 06:16:44 PM »
Quote
I am so afraid of messing up the raw (over-supplementing, not supplementing enough, finding organs, where is the food sourced, and on and on and on . . . .) that even though I know it’s better to feed all raw, I haven’t really taken the plunge.

Another reason I use a premix instead of really winging it. I know that I know what she needs. I know that I could do it myself. But whenever I start seriously thinking about not using a premix or at least following Dr. Pierson's recipe, I get nervous. 

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