Author Topic: Ideas for Staph Infection of My Hairdresser's Great Pyrenees  (Read 4155 times)

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Offline DeeDee

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Ideas for Staph Infection of My Hairdresser's Great Pyrenees
« on: November 20, 2014, 05:18:00 PM »
My hairdresser has been going through absolute hell with her GP and a staph infection he came down with after a boarding experience. He's been through multiple rounds of antibiotics and is currently in the middle of another 6-week round.

I saw photos of him on her phone, and the photos of his belly and back-end would have made all of you cry. It's all been making her cry. Every time the antibiotics are finished, within a couple of weeks it comes back.

Here's the problem I'm seeing and mainly suspecting--the required rabies vaccine was injected not long before this problem began. He's 11 years old and was healthy before now. I've recommended that she not let him have any other vaccines ever again, and she agrees.

So far, here are the things I've sent her for recommended reading and treating the problems herself (Remember, the nearest holistic vet is VERY far away--2 hours on the road IF the traffic is good, each way, is a lot for large dogs):


Some of these are repetitive, but all of them have additional info that's necessary to know.


Important information:

http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2009/08/06/treating-adverse-vaccine-reactions-by-jean-dodds-dvm/

Here's Dr. Dodd's website where you might want to check out the nutrition section too:

http://drjeandoddspethealthresource.tumblr.com/

Dr. Dodd's Twitter account: https://twitter.com/HPNutriScan

and here's more about vaccinations & their damage:

http://www.drbeckersbites.com/pet-vaccinations

Dr. Becker's Twitter account: https://twitter.com/drkarenbecker

Dr. Dodd's Detox recommendations:

http://www.holisticvetpetcare.com/detox-support-ill-animals.htm

Several methods of detox listed here from Dr. Karen Becker:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/06/17/detoxification.aspx

If you want to just make it easy and get the products from Dr. Becker:

http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/liver-kidney-support-for-pets/

This article on Vaccinosis (<----What I'm suspecting.) recommends Thuja:

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/you-want-to-detox-a-vaccination-think-again/

And here's a pet version of Thuja for homeopathy:

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Newton-Homeopathics-Thuja/161016.aspx

But here Dr Becker recommends Lyssin for rabies vaccination and Thuja for other vaccines:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/02/15/detox-for-pets.aspx

And here's the directions for Lyssin (I'm going to get this for V&B before I take them for the next rabies):

http://www.elixirs.com/products.cfm?productcode=S94W

They're in Aus., but you might want to look into this for vaccinosis too:

http://www.holisticanimalmedicines.com/store/vaccine_detox_relief_from_past_toxins.html

I'd try this for a while after getting off antibiotics too--just to see if you can keep it from coming back with topical antiseptic treatment--it wouldn't be greasy in your house like coconut oil would be:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-karen-becker/pet-health_b_1651962.html

The formula for amount of Coconut Oil with food:

http://victoriasallnaturalpethealth.businesscatalyst.com/Articles/Dog%20and%20Cat%20Health%20Information/how-to-feed-your-dog-or-cat-coconut-oil

The formula for amount of Braggs with water or food:

http://touchnpaws.com/benefits-of-raw-apple-cidr-vinegar-for-your-dog/

So, any other ideas--start throwing them out here. I've given her the link to this post.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 05:21:58 PM by DeeDee »
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Ideas for Staph Infection of My Hairdresser's Great Pyrenees
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2014, 08:14:02 PM »
My first thought was colloidal silver.  It's anti-bacterial, anti-viral and I think anti-fungal.  I'm not sure how much to give a GP, but that was my first thought.  It can be added to his food and/or used topically.

2nd thought was a detox, which you mentioned.  If she does that, he may need liver support, which can be provided with milk thistle.

There are holistic vets out there that do phone consults, and I thought there was one in NJ who can also provide the homeopathic nosode for rabies (lyssin).  Unfortunately I can't remember his name, nor can I find him via the AHVMA.  But if you want to pass the link for AHVMA to her, she can try to find someone on there who does phone consults and homeopathy.  http://www.ahvma.org/  I did find one in Massachusetts who does phone consults (warning, these vets and consults are NOT cheap):  http://www.homeovet.net/content/client.html  I make no promises as to how good he is or if it'll work.  But I truly understand the desperation.

Here's another one, but I didn't see if they do consults, and I would recommend working with a holistic vet if she uses the lyssin:  http://peterdobias.com/products/lyssin-200c

Coconut oil might be a good idea if used topically on the infected area.  It's anti-bacterial, and it also moisturizes.

He should also be on a good probiotic, if she's not doing that already, because the antibiotics have probably wiped out most if not all of the good bacteria in his intestines.  That's a huge part of his immune system, and it needs to be built up again.  (Colloidal silver doesn't kill good bacteria.)  Colostrum would also help his immune system.

And this may go without saying, but she needs to remove any grains from his diet.  Those are not helping, and the sugar (carbs converted to sugar in the body) may be feeding the bacteria and contributing to the inflammation.  The body uses protein to make blood cells, including the white blood cells used to fight infection.

Vitamin C is anti-inflammatory and also supports the immune system.  Some good omega 3's (e.g. krill oil or a good quality salmon oil) are also anti-inflammatory and may help the skin heal.  I'm tempted to suggest vitamin E (good for the skin) but it's a fat-soluble vitamin and if I remember correctly, can be toxic in high doses.  There are cream versions that can be used topically, but I would talk to the holistic vet first to make sure it's ok to use.

I've run out of steam for the moment, but if I think of anything else, I'll be sure to add it.

grouphug to you, your hairdresser and her furkid!   :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Ideas for Staph Infection of My Hairdresser's Great Pyrenees
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2014, 08:43:43 PM »
Thank you, Pookie!

I knew there were some things I was forgetting. He IS on colostrum, one of the fish oils, and probiotics, but the vet has been yanking her around with weird diet changes including, here we go. . .vegan. I also suspect that she might need to change to flax oil rather than the fish since fish seems to cause problems for a lot of dogs. (My sister has one.)

He wasn't getting better on that vegan food, so she's just stopped that and has him back on lamb and rice. However, I told her that rice wasn't good because of the arsenic, and Dr's are now recommending that it not be a cereal for human babies--not even "organic."

I don't think she's open to any other grains at all, but because of her vet is why I recommended that she look over Dr. Dodd's nutrition section. I don't think any grains at all are good for him.

They also found a thyroid problem, but he's on hormone replacement for that now, but that tells me that something's attacked it suddenly too. They had to sedate him and completely shave him when he had the severe lesions from the staph, and now his hair is coming back in a wiry texture that looks like Vlad's.  I think again that it was that rabies shot that contributed to the thyroid problem he now has.

Since we're talking Lyssin, do you think I need to consult someone for V&B before giving them the Lyssin in the recommended doses from  here http://www.elixirs.com/products.cfm?productcode=S94W before their next rabies vaccine?

"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Ideas for Staph Infection of My Hairdresser's Great Pyrenees
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2014, 08:38:26 AM »
Just to clarify, if she gives vitamin C, giving the kind with bioflavanoids would be better.  If I remember correctly, it's a more complete form.  She can give to "bowel tolerance" -- meaning she can dose to where he starts having soft stools or diarrhea, then would need to cut back.  I give Pookie 250 mg/day for dental health, and he's about 14 lbs.  My holistic vet said I could probably give Pookie 500 mg/day because of his size, but I wasn't comfortable with possibly triggering a problem for him.

I knew there were some things I was forgetting. He IS on colostrum, one of the fish oils, and probiotics, but the vet has been yanking her around with weird diet changes including, here we go. . .vegan. I also suspect that she might need to change to flax oil rather than the fish since fish seems to cause problems for a lot of dogs. (My sister has one.)

bangshead bangshead bangshead bangshead bangshead

I know cats can't metabolize flax oil, but can dogs?  I don't know as much about dogs, so I'm just curious.

I would agree, no grains at all.  I'm not a fan of any starches, either (sweet potato, potato, tapioca, rice) because the body converts them to sugar, and I think sugar feeds bacteria.  But it's possible he may need some in his diet so he doesn't lose too much weight (like Amber's finding with River).  Has she considered a balanced home-cooked diet?  That might be better than any commercial food, though raw would be even better.  But not everyone is comfortable or able to feed raw.

Quote
Since we're talking Lyssin, do you think I need to consult someone for V&B before giving them the Lyssin in the recommended doses from  here http://www.elixirs.com/products.cfm?productcode=S94W before their next rabies vaccine?

I'm really not sure.  I've never used them and don't know if it's as simple as those directions claim, or if they should be used under the supervision of a holistic vet.  It may be best to consult with a holistic vet, just to be on the safe side.  I don't know if that helps or not.

I forgot to ask:  did the vet report the infection and thyroid problem as a vaccine reaction, or does the vet not think they're related?  How quickly did the infection show up after the vaccination?

I did a very quick check in my Pitcairn book last night (Dr. Pitcairns' Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs & Cats), and while he doesn't mention staph, he does discuss skin problems (mostly allergies).  I found it interesting that he attributes them to (emphasis is mine):

Quote

- Toxicity -- probably most of it from poor-quality food and some of it from other sources, like environmental pollutants and deliberately applied pest control chemicals.
- Vaccinations -- inducing immune disorders in susceptible animals.
- Suppressed disease -- remains of an inadequately treated condition that never was cured and that may periodically discharge through the skin.
- Psychological factors -- boredom, frustration, anger, and irritability.  As I see it, however, these are nearly always secondary issues that simply aggravate an already-existing problem.

He also mentions thyroid disorders, and that he's had good results with nutritional therapy and homeopathy, but that it's a bit complicated so one should work with a holistic vet.

I do feel I should mention that if your hairdresser does do a detox for her dog (and a holistic vet would be helpful with this as well), that it may appear that symptoms get worse before they get better.  This is called a "healing crisis" and it means the body is ridding itself of the toxins.  It can be scary, though.  This can also happen when using homeopathic remedies, but I don't know if it happens when using nosodes.
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"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Ideas for Staph Infection of My Hairdresser's Great Pyrenees
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2014, 09:52:30 AM »

I know cats can't metabolize flax oil, but can dogs?  I don't know as much about dogs, so I'm just curious.


Though it's not as efficient as fish oil, flax seed oil mixed with cottage cheese (My sister does, see Budwig diet for humans) is a good alternative in cases of dogs that can't have fish. For flax use in V&B, I just add a lot of flax meal into their homemade treats. When I use fish oil, I have to also give ACvinegar, or they burp all freaking night.

Camelina oil is also being used by many people now. I also use olive oil. I just switch things around to add to the coconut oil that they get every night. Coconut oil is the single oil that I can truly tell a difference if I don't give every night. It honestly stops dogs from smelling like dogs.


I'm really not sure.  I've never used them and don't know if it's as simple as those directions claim, or if they should be used under the supervision of a holistic vet.  It may be best to consult with a holistic vet, just to be on the safe side.  I don't know if that helps or not.


I know Dr. Dobias has Lyssin for sale, but it's 200C and not the 30C that everyone recommends, and I"m not too comfortable with giving something that I have to measure in this way: "One dose = a single layer of tiny granules covering the very bottom of the vial lid." http://peterdobias.com/products/lyssin-200c However I notice that he says don't give with food like others say can be done.

This is the norm of what I see being said:

Quote
http://forums.hpathy.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=10996
n my many years of work as a veterinary homeopath, I have seen some horrible reactions to rabies vaccine - and they are usually only seen weeks or months after the vacccine, when it is indeed late to undo the damage buy gthe simple expedient of Lyssion 30C. However an immediate response as was seen here, is very often a precursor of worse to come.

So I completely disagree with the guesswork by a previous well meaning writer, and urge you based on good experience to use Lyssin 30C in aqueous solution, and I suggest you give doses twice a day for 3 to 5 days - longer if ANY symptoms linger.

In future if you can not avoid a Rabies vaccine, it is wise to use it preventively, by giving it twice a day for 5 days, giving the vaccine during the 3rd day. The 5 days is enough if there are no symptoms - but continue longer if there are still symptoms after vaccination.

Quote
I forgot to ask:  did the vet report the infection and thyroid problem as a vaccine reaction, or does the vet not think they're related?  How quickly did the infection show up after the vaccination?

I seriously doubt it since no vet around here does anything but tout the wonders of vaccinations. It was just my radar that went up when I asked her if he'd had any recent ones. And she knows enough that those package inserts say don't give to sick dogs, so she said the rest of the family is just going to have to deal with him during trips home because she's not giving any other vaccinations just so that he can be boarded again.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 09:56:32 AM by DeeDee »
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Ideas for Staph Infection of My Hairdresser's Great Pyrenees
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2014, 07:50:04 PM »
Homeopathic remedies are usually not given with food, unless there's no other way to administer them.  I don't know if the same is true of nosodes, but I would imagine so.

I'm glad she's not going to let him get vaccinated in the future.  Vaccines are only to be used in healthy animals, and it says so (or at least it used to) on the label.

I forgot to mention:  aloe on the skin may also help.  My health food store owner also suggested cranberries (internally), but I didn't get a chance to get more information about is as she had a delivery come in.  She did say that it's possible that it wasn't the vaccine itself that caused the infection, but the bacteria, which lives on the skin, coming in through the puncture where the needle went in.  She also agreed with using colloidal silver spray topically.  It kills just about anything.

I hope this helps!
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

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Re: Ideas for Staph Infection of My Hairdresser's Great Pyrenees
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2014, 09:21:42 PM »
Thank you so much for going to the trouble to ask the health food store owner! You've given so many ideas that I think might help. I really hope she can take some of these things and resolve the problem at least some if not completely.

I felt so sorry for her and him when she was showing those photos to me. It's been tearing her up, and I wish I'd gotten an appointment a few weeks ago when I actually first needed it. We're going to start making appointments in advance now though, so I don't have to try to work around my parents. They're going to have to start working around me some.

We can stay updated with him better that way.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Ideas for Staph Infection of My Hairdresser's Great Pyrenees
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2014, 10:27:55 AM »
I'm happy to help, and I hope at least something helps her furkid.  fingerscrossed

My store owner asked about the infection -- how is it showing up, and where?  I assume that the dog has hot spot/rashes, that sort of thing, and assumed they were everywhere, but to her point, is the area where the vaccine was administered showing signs of infection?  Did the signs start there or somewhere else?  Those things can also help determine/confirm if the vaccine was the culprit.

grouphug to her, her GP and to you.  You're a sweetheart to care so much for her and her baby.   :-* :-* :-*
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"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Ideas for Staph Infection of My Hairdresser's Great Pyrenees
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2014, 11:16:29 AM »


My store owner asked about the infection -- how is it showing up, and where?  I assume that the dog has hot spot/rashes, that sort of thing, and assumed they were everywhere, but to her point, is the area where the vaccine was administered showing signs of infection?  Did the signs start there or somewhere else?  Those things can also help determine/confirm if the vaccine was the culprit.


The photos I saw were on his underside between his back legs, and it was a HUGE area. With him being a hairy GP, you wouldn't have seen it readily until he was shaved. It was a total raw area though. A LARGE area.

It came up on her like Vlad's infected hot-spot on his paw did on me. One day it wasn't there, and suddenly it was infected and bloody, raw looking and the smell drew her to look. Except with her, it was about 15x larger. And with her, where it was, there wasn't any option of being able to bandage such a large area with the wet-to-dry bandaging that works so well--especially with his penis sheath needing to be accessible for him to go outside. So yes, it was in the general vicinity that the rabies would have been given, but not at it.

She said the vet was speculating that it was caused by the damp environment from kennel washing during the one night she left him boarded. You know, his hairy belly kind of staying airless but damp from laying on a recently washed kennel floor. I know he'd never been left at that kennel  that so many people around here recommend; and for some reason, I think it made him highly stressed on top of everything else and was most likely a contributing factor in the whole stew. I really think it wasn't just one thing, but a whole domino effect that began with the rabies shot.

Now you see why I just can't force myself to kennel V&B. I've seen more than one horror story like this from more than one place around here. I just can't do it and risk problems like this. Plus, with them on limited vaccinations, none of the places will keep them anyway. If something major comes up with my parents, Vlad's breeder will keep them.


"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

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