Author Topic: Addison's and dogs  (Read 8794 times)

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Offline Lola

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2015, 12:27:11 PM »
Glad you feel better!!!!  You are an AWESOME furkid parent! 
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #31 on: December 19, 2015, 04:22:38 PM »
I really, really want to thank you all for the help. Sometimes it's hard to know what to do when you're getting so much conflicting info from other places. This really isn't the right time of the year for me to drive myself crazy with a bunch of "what ifs," and you're all a big part of why I'm not driving myself nutzo anymore. I'm finally beginning to think that I've got a handle on understanding all this, and how it affects him. I'm MUCH calmer now thanks to all of you!

Love you all!

I think I can safely speak for all of us when I say:  we're happy to help!  That's what we do here, we help each other, and goodness knows, you've helped us, too.  And you are a PAWSOME mommy!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy

Here's a quote from the book for you:

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  Emotional stability often suffers when hormones are out of sync.  Animals may develop aggressiveness, anxiety, or fear, and even run away.  Such problems often cause an owner to give up on a pet.  I have traced many of these emotion-related issues to hormonal imbalances.  Once I correct the imbalances the problem vanishes. 

He then goes on to discuss such issues as aggression, hypersexuality in neutered or spayed animals, and separation anxiety.  In cats, he also mentions unexpected spraying.

Hmm . . . "emotional stability often suffers when hormones are out of sync."  Reminds me of PMS!   :D  (sorry, I just couldn't resist)
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #32 on: December 19, 2015, 05:17:17 PM »
TY, Pookie  :-*

I just checked my account to see why it hadn't shipped. Said shipping wasn't expected until the 23rd. LOL I thought it was just going to be slow AFTER shipment. Not slow to GET shipped. Oh well. It will get here sooner or later, and I'll have Dr's appointments by then again to read during.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #33 on: December 19, 2015, 05:54:48 PM »
Here's an article from Dr. Plechner's website that may be helpful, in a general way.

http://drplechner.com/learn/specific-diseases/rage/

A description of the book you ordered:

http://drplechner.com/pets-at-risk/

And some testimonials:

http://drplechner.com/testimonials-3/

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  Bridget was a strong minded dog and her small size did not stop her from being very aggressive towards her older and larger sister. She suffered from allergies and was always very congested and had difficulty breathing. Because of her allergies they wanted to put her on special injections. Although I purchased them for a large amount of money Thank God I never used them on her. At age 12 she had 10 teeth extracted due to gum disease, and at that time we took blood tests for allergies. We found out that she had allergies to many foods and veggies as well. We started to cook her home cooked meals of things she could eat. But as time passed by she also became allergic to them as well. We must constantly switch her foods around.

. . . . After a blood test that you suggested and a treatment plan that I followed, she began to slowly show signs of recovery, and is almost back to normal or as good as normal could be for a 16 1/2 year old dog. We thought she would never see her 16th birthday and now she will defiantly see many more.

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  Missy, a 15 year old tiny Tabby girl

"Missy is my sweet baby girl and began showing serious signs of aging. Her kidneys were clearly not doing well, she stopped grooming herself, became very anxious, crying all the time and was eating very little and losing weight. In addition, 6 months prior, we had her teeth cleaned and she was already developing plaque build up and was pawing at her mouth again. I was panicking, as I did not want to lose her so soon. We had Dr. Plechner's blood work done and her levels were way off. She is tiny, so we started her on 2.5 mgs of Prednisone. Within two weeks, the difference in her was nothing short of remarkable! This 15 year old kitty is now running up and down the hall like a crazed kitten again, talking up a storm, flying up and down her cat tree and over the top of the bed, waking me up in the morning! She is eating well, gained a bit of weight and is once again grooming herself. She has stopped pawing at her mouth and is much more calm, resting comfortably with me at night. We are so very grateful at the incredible change in our little kitty and so happy she will live a quality life for many more years! Thank you from our hearts, Dr. Plechner, for saving our little Miss!"
« Last Edit: December 19, 2015, 06:27:45 PM by Pookie »
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #34 on: December 20, 2015, 09:19:35 AM »
Thank you, Pookie. When son leaves Tuesday, I'm planning on reading some more of his site when I can sit down and read instead of having to stop when they get back here from visiting with friends. My brain gets can't concentrate well enough with everything that's going on here.

I'm having to observe Vlad closely too because, well. . .stress. He's had to be bumped several times, but I like being able to have these 1-mg pills here. It doesn't make him as jumpy when I can bump with the smaller amounts several times instead of giving a much larger dose once a day. He's needed less prednisone this way.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #35 on: December 20, 2015, 04:44:33 PM »
It doesn't make him as jumpy when I can bump with the smaller amounts several times instead of giving a much larger dose once a day. He's needed less prednisone this way.

There's a different book about human health and cortisol that's similar in some ways to Dr. Plechner's protocol, and it doses cortisol the same way you are, with small doses throughout the day instead of one daily dose.  Which is just my long-winded way of saying that it sounds like you've found something that works really well for Vlad (and it's been done that way in humans, too)!   :)
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline Pookie

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2016, 11:04:00 PM »
How is Vlad doing these days, DeeDee?
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2016, 11:38:34 PM »
He's really doing well. He was included in that remark from the vet last month, "I hate that diet. I really hate that diet, but I have to say they have the most gorgeous coats!"

In the end, I decided to find humans that could tell me what having Addison's actually feels like, and I understand why he does some of the things he does when he runs low on prednisone. One of them also helped me understand digestive issues that happen with some with Addisonians.

I finally figured out a protocol for him for when he starts getting indigestion if he runs out of his prednisone for the day, and it really does work. His indigestion is a rare thing except for that now that I've got him off of bone and on calcium supplements. I've actually got him on a tiny bit of bone again, 2# of meat with ground bone to 10# of meat without. He could probably still digest it the old way with the bone if I gave him more prednisone, but I'm not going to do that. Cortisol is REALLY important for digestion.

You really can't tell that there's anything wrong with him anymore once I finally learned when he needs prednisone, or is going to be in a situation that he will need more--like he needs 2.5 mg extra one hour before going to the vet's for his shot if he has an afternoon appointment, and I might as well give him 2.5 as soon as I get home if it's a morning appointment.

Five mg. every morning, and the protocol that works for his digestion if he runs out of that 5 for the day:

If he starts burping before 3 p.m., then give a little food and 1 mg.

If he's still burping by 5 p.m. give 1 mg with supper.

If he's still burping by 9 p.m. give 1 mg with bedtime snack.


If he starts burping before 3 p.m. with smell, then give a little food and 2.5 mg.

If he's still burping with smell by 5 p.m. give 1 mg with supper.

If he's still burping with smell by 9 p.m. give 2 mg with bedtime snack.

Since I've been following that, I've only had to get to that 2mg at bedtime snack twice. Learning all this has been a long time coming though. I have no idea why that low-dose protocol doesn't work for him, but it doesn't, and I just don't care anymore now that I have him back to "normal."
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2016, 12:21:08 PM »
That is WONDERFUL! multistars multistars multistars  You have done an AMAZING job figuring this out and caring for him!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

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In the end, I decided to find humans that could tell me what having Addison's actually feels like, and I understand why he does some of the things he does when he runs low on prednisone. One of them also helped me understand digestive issues that happen with some with Addisonians. 

What a great idea!

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Cortisol is REALLY important for digestion. 

Good to know.  I wonder if that was part of the issue Pookie had.

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I have no idea why that low-dose protocol doesn't work for him, but it doesn't, and I just don't care anymore now that I have him back to "normal."

Because he's Vlad.  If you used the protocol he's currently on with another dog, it probably wouldn't work.

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You really can't tell that there's anything wrong with him anymore once I finally learned when he needs prednisone, or is going to be in a situation that he will need more--like he needs 2.5 mg extra one hour before going to the vet's for his shot if he has an afternoon appointment, and I might as well give him 2.5 as soon as I get home if it's a morning appointment.

Makes sense:  there's more stress involved.

Quote
He was included in that remark from the vet last month, "I hate that diet. I really hate that diet, but I have to say they have the most gorgeous coats!"

 funny2  One of these days that vet is going to have to admit that maybe, just maybe, "that diet" isn't evil like he was told in vet school.  I'll expect to see pigs flying over the Hudson Bay around that time, but you never know.   :D
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2016, 01:00:40 PM »

 funny2  One of these days that vet is going to have to admit that maybe, just maybe, "that diet" isn't evil like he was told in vet school.  I'll expect to see pigs flying over the Hudson Bay around that time, but you never know.   :D

LOL. He never said anything about their diet except "their teeth are SO white" when he first graduated and started at the practice though. He never said anything about the diet until late last year when I had to ask why Vlad's digestion had changed so much that he wasn't processing his bone anymore. (I had to find the answer to that on my own too, but is all due to not enough cortisol to do it.)

So, I don't think he was as indoctrinated until he started at the practice and the visiting Science Diet "nutritionists" got hold of him. They changed him in 4 years, and he got vocal about it when I took in that piece of poop that from Vlad that was nothing but ground bone sort of glued together somehow.

All I wanted to know was why Vlad obviously couldn't process bone anymore. I got a lecture about no one knowing who's watching over these raw-for-pets companies, and etc., with no clue as to why he couldn't process part of his food anymore. The human Addisonains helped me understand that some Addisonians have low stomach acid on top of everything else (the ones that do often have to take a hydrochloric acid supplement), so I started giving him more ACV with his food for it. He's now getting 3 tbs a day since that's only 33 mg of potassium total.

It's been slow, but I see improvement in him every month, to the point that I've been able to add a SMALL AMOUNT of the meats with ground bone back into his diet for some variety. I think maybe a lot of this has just been some needed healing (who knows how long he was headed for crisis), but I'm still pleased with his progress, and his vet is too. At least the vet doesn't disagree with me on most things. He didn't blink at me when I insisted last month that I needed Vlad's calcium/phosphorus levels while he was drawing blood for his electrolytes since I was having to give him supplements instead of depending on the 10% bone for calcium.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2016, 01:05:26 PM »
Quote
So, I don't think he was as indoctrinated until he started at the practice and the visiting Science Diet "nutritionists" got hold of him. They changed him in 4 years, and he got vocal about it when I took in that piece of poop that from Vlad that was nothing but ground bone sort of glued together somehow.

 bangshead bangshead bangshead bangshead bangshead

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The human Addisonains helped me understand that some Addisonians have low stomach acid on top of everything else (the ones that do often have to take a hydrochloric acid supplement), so I started giving him more ACV with his food for it.

That is really interesting!  So low cortisol can equal low stomach acid?

Quote
It's been slow, but I see improvement in him every month, to the point that I've been able to add a SMALL AMOUNT of the meats with ground bone back into his diet for some variety. I think maybe a lot of this has just been some needed healing (who knows how long he was headed for crisis),

I think you're right.  Hopefully he'll continue to heal.   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2016, 01:18:08 PM »

That is really interesting!  So low cortisol can equal low stomach acid?



In SOME cases it  can. Addison's is one of those diseases where some get certain symptoms, and others don't always. Also, I really don't think that there's THAT much known about it when we're talking pets simply because they can't talk.

About 6 months ago, when I was asking his vet about some things that I thought were symptoms (maybe), he said, "It certainly is a possibility, but we don't know. They can't talk and tell us how they feel."

That statement of his nagged at me for about 3 months, and THAT is when I got the idea to study human Addison's and then find some humans with it to ask my questions. I learned more from them in one week than I did from months of people dealing with canine Addison's. That's why I quit being afraid to give him more prednisone when his digestive symptoms show.

When I quit being afraid to go against what the canine Addison's people now teach is when he started progressing by leaps and bounds. The human Addisonians made  me understand that I was making him feel like hell if I didn't pay more attention to symptoms that say he's running out for the day--his digestive issues being one of the main clues at times. And if the canine Addison people's threats are true about "too much prednisone," then I'm picking quality of life over quantity because I like seeing him happy and feeling good.

Edit: His vet certainly doesn't think the protocol I came up with for him is TOO much prednisone either.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 01:19:58 PM by DeeDee »
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Lola

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #42 on: May 22, 2016, 04:08:52 PM »
You are AMAZING!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2016, 05:45:17 PM »
Thank you, Lola. But I don't think I'm anything special. I think I'm just more willing to study something from every angle (even if I'm looking from an unexpected angle) and am more willing to experiment until something works in the needed situation instead of just doing what I'm told--especially when what I'm told by "experts" isn't working. In this case, despite everything else going on in my life, I've just got more time than most to observe and change things up until I find something that works for sure.

I consider myself VERY lucky in that, or I probably wouldn't have Vlad back to where he is. I haven't taken a single note in the past 2 months, though, and am beginning to enjoy things again. I think he is too.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #44 on: May 22, 2016, 06:41:39 PM »
Dee I think it's really terrific that you've figured out what works for Vlad.  Maybe YOU don't think you are amazing but not everyone wil take the time to notice these things and work them out to best advantage for the individual animal.

All of us here do of course, and most poeple I encounter in..say the feline raw feeding for IBD group..but we are just a drop in the bucket.

Anyway I'm a little confused.  You're talking about prednisone and I thought the treatment was cortisol?  Is there a difference?

I've been getting very close to talking to Mazy cat's vet about starting her on a low pred dose.  If her regurgitation schedule remains at every 5 days, why not a low dose every four days?  You know?

Sorry to derail the thread slightly but I think it all ties in?

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