Author Topic: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM  (Read 4188 times)

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2015, 08:19:18 PM »
No. It was exactly that. He seemed like himself (though looking back now, a lot of things were odd for at least a year), then things started going really wrong from April until June when he crashed. I have my suspicions that during that time before he crashed, he was probably in secondary Addison's during that year, but it just wasn't found until he went into primary and crashed.

But there ARE a lot of people that think that Addison's disease is greatly under-diagnosed just because it's so hard to diagnose. They usually can't really find it, or don't, until the animal crashes, and then, in a lot of cases, it's too late. Vlad and the other BRT in Maryland that crashed on Memorial Day weekend were both REALLY lucky. We've both been told that a lot of times after people looked over their clinical notes from ER.

I also know that in a lot of the other cases of Addison's, the dogs have multiple problems like allergies, kidney disease, pancreatitis, etc. Vlad's pancreatitis thing seems to be controlled now with ACV and turmeric that the vet said I could try with him (after he talked to the herbalist there). The turmeric finished doing what the ACV didn't completely do alone.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2015, 10:10:35 PM »
I also know that in a lot of the other cases of Addison's, the dogs have multiple problems like allergies, kidney disease, pancreatitis, etc. Vlad's pancreatitis thing seems to be controlled now with ACV and turmeric that the vet said I could try with him (after he talked to the herbalist there). The turmeric finished doing what the ACV didn't completely do alone.

I didn't know Vlad had pancreatitis!   :o :(  I'm glad the ACV and turmeric are helping.

That info about Addison dogs also having the other health problems is good to know.  Maybe Dr. Plechner's test would be helpful in preventing Addison's, I don't know.  He doesn't test for aldosterone, that's why I'm not sure.  But even if it didn't, I wonder if his program would be helpful for those dogs (that have the allergies, etc.), but I don't know if it could be done in conjuction with the treatment for Addison's.   :-\

I think his program would definitely be helpful for breeds that, for lack of a better way of putting it, may be more prone to Addison's.  To your point earlier, maybe it would help prevent things before they become problematic.  Other than the cost (and convincing a vet to do the tests and try the program), it certainly doesn't hurt to have the testing done and see if there is an imbalance.
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2015, 08:15:24 PM »
I didn't know Vlad had pancreatitis!   :o :(  I'm glad the ACV and turmeric are helping.



Yeah. He tested positive for it in ER anyway. He's not been tested again, but I've been going on his rotten-egg-scented burps since then. That and the fact that it seems that too much fatty foods bother him now. It's slowly gotten better to the point that he's not burping anymore. It's why I was wanting to try the tumeric so badly--because of the reports that it (and ACV) could help pancreatitis. Nothing to do with pain at all. Just the stomach issues.

I can't see that his protocol (if very much over treating with cortisol [prednisone/prenisonosolone/hydrocortisone]) could hurt a dog with Addison's since his protocol of giving cortisol is part of the Addison's treatment. It sounds like he's more or less treating adrenal fatigue when Addison's is adrenal death.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2015, 09:35:29 PM »
I can't see that his protocol (if very much over treating with cortisol [prednisone/prenisonosolone/hydrocortisone]) could hurt a dog with Addison's since his protocol of giving cortisol is part of the Addison's treatment. It sounds like he's more or less treating adrenal fatigue when Addison's is adrenal death.

That's exactly why I looked at his book again.  Remember in another thread I had been wondering if pets get adrenal fatigue and if glandulars would help?  That's when I remembered his book.  In humans, adrenal fatigue can show up as a person being very susceptible to colds or the flu, so reduced immune function is a result.  Maybe in pets, adrenal fatigue shows up as some of the other issues he's addressing, but he didn't look at it as adrenal fatigue.  He really was focusing on the bloodwork and the imbalance, and blamed most of the problem on genetics.  To me, adrenal fatigue is more something that develops over time due to stresses (surgeries, illnesses, etc.), but maybe that's just semantics on my part.

I look at it this way:  Other than cost, it doesn't hurt to have the test done to see if the imbalance exists.  If it doesn't, great.  If it does, you can make a decision whether or not to treat it, but at least if problems show up, you know what you're dealing with.  But treating it may prevent future problems.

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Offline Lola

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2016, 05:41:11 PM »
A family member has a dog that is allergic to... who knows what.  All kinds of tests have been run.  The brand of kibble has been changed several times.  The vet casually mentioned raw.  Her SO told me, not her.  She would NEVER have told me that.
Since this person won't even consider raw... meds were recommended, more tests, yadda, yadda, yadda. 
Honestly, we don't have a lot of in-depth conversation about it because she is not open to ANY suggestions.  Any info I may have to offer, I got from "kooks on the internet." 
However, her significant other IS a reader.  Do you think this book is written for the average Joe?
Do you think the odds are good that the average Joe would ask the vet to test for Endocrine-Immune Imbalance?
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 05:57:08 PM by Lola »
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2016, 05:44:18 PM »

However, her spouse IS a reader.  Do you think this book is written for the average Joe?


Yes. I was having problems putting some of the dots together until I got that book and read it. Once I figured out what all cortisol actually does, everything that was going wrong made sense.


Quote
Do you think the odds are good that the average Joe would ask the vet to test for Endocrine-Immune Imbalance?

Not so sure that "the average joe" is as demanding as I can be.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2016, 05:45:52 PM by DeeDee »
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2016, 11:10:47 PM »
However, her significant other IS a reader.  Do you think this book is written for the average Joe?

Definitely, yes.  There's not a lot of "medical speak" in it, and he does an excellent job explaining things in a way that the "average Joe" can understand.

Do you think the odds are good that the average Joe would ask the vet to test for Endocrine-Immune Imbalance?

Not so sure that "the average joe" is as demanding as I can be.

 funny2  Love DeeDee's response!

It depends on the Joe.  Only "kooks" like us go to the effort to find out WHY there's a problem and figure out how to treat it.  So if the Joe is a "kook" (sorry, that cracked me up), then they'll ask.  If the pet is "just a cat/dog" then maybe not.

I doubt most vets are familiar with this Imbalance, which is where the book can also comes in handy.  I just recently bought a used copy from Amazon for $4.00 and gave it to my vet.  Whether she's reading it or using it for a coaster, I don't know.  I told her, read the first 3 chapters and if you think it's bogus, let me know and I'll take it back, otherwise please keep it.

Anyway, having the book when talking to the vet can be helpful, because of the explanations that Dr. Plechner goes into.  He also goes into detail about HOW he discovered the imbalance, the connections estrogen has with cortisol and auto-immune problems, and the labs to ask for.  So the pet parent (and vet) has a much clearer understanding of what's going on and why.  His website . . . isn't as clear, I suspect because the book had an editor and the website doesn't.  The website is helpful if you're just looking to get the information on what to test for.

BTW, for any cynic-vets out there, Dr. Plechner is retired and doesn't charge for advice or guidance when he's consulted.  He has no financial interest in any of the labs that run these tests.  So there is no financial gain for him in this.

Sorry, I think I rambled.   :-[  Do you think the SO would be willing to 1) read it and 2) pursue discussing it with the family member and/or vet?
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2016, 10:02:43 AM »
By the way I did buy this book.  It is sitting here waiting to be read. I haven't even started flipping through it yet.  Blame it on the stack of good library books.  I do plan to have it read before Mazy cat's next check up.  I want to start her on the pred I think. If vet insists on the specif blood panels first then okay.

But diet alone is just not doing it for her.

Offline Lola

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2016, 10:42:12 AM »
When is Mazy's next check-up?
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Offline Lola

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2016, 10:47:09 AM »
Quote
Yes. I was having problems putting some of the dots together until I got that book and read it. Once I figured out what all cortisol actually does, everything that was going wrong made sense.

So you had the test done, and then...?  I know you talked about it elsewhere, but dumb it down for me.  :)
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 10:48:42 AM by Lola »
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2016, 11:03:29 AM »
When is Mazy's next check-up?

July. I haven't scheduled it yet.  Trying to work out the best day, workwise.  I have dr appointments for myself I'm trying to fit in too.

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2016, 11:38:53 AM »
So you had the test done, and then...?  I know you talked about it elsewhere, but dumb it down for me.  :)

There were so many things going wrong with Vlad on top of the Addison's, and until I read the book, I had no clue ALL of it could be caused by lack of cortisol. In HIS case, I wasn't doing him any favors by trying to lower his prednisone dose as the Addison's group thought it should be.

We knew he wasn't making cortisol b/c of his Addison's testing so no further testing was done, but lowering it from 5 mg where his vet wanted him was only causing the other problems to continue--digestion/pancreatitis issues especially. Dr. Plechner talks about digestion in the book too along with other issues that Vlad was having.

As far as the estrogen issues go with Plechner Syndrome, the prostate supplement he takes lowers estrogen. He gets a more complete supplement now (instead of saw palmetto alone) that contains all of the things that Dr. Karen Becker recommends trying for BPH: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2014/04/21/benign-prostatic-hyperplasia.aspx

What Dr. Plechner talks about is adrenal exhaustion or insufficiency, which is just a less drastic form of what Vlad has (adrenal death), but it can cause the same symptoms on a lesser level that can all be attributed to high estrogen caused by low cortisol. Now that Vlad is being kept on a higher dose of prednisone that works for him along with the estrogen lowering herbal supplement, none of the other things are an issue unless he gets stressed and needs more cortisol replacement for that day.

So, Vlad's getting treated for high estrogen anyway, and it's worked, so no further testing has been done. If the herbal supplement quits working, I'll have more testing done to look at other prescription meds. That way he can keep his testes and not screw up his hormones even more on top of his cortisol hormone being gone.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2016, 03:34:27 PM »
Here's a simpler breakdown of how his protocol works.  NOTE that it is based on blood tests, to determine the appropriate dose of pred needed for the individual animal:

estrogen = inflammation
cortisol = reduces inflammation (that's why it's used for injuries, it reduces swelling and inflammation). 

Low cortisol is low = high estrogen (inflammation) resulting in auto-immune issues (e.g. allergies, IBD, cancer, etc.).  Increasing cortisol (based on blood work) to normal = lower estrogen (inflammation) to normal levels.  Immune issues resolve because the hormones are now in balance.  Life is good.   :)

BTW, I was at the bake sale for the rescue I recently joined, and one of the other ladies mentioned her cat having inflammed gums.  I gave her card with the link to our forum and also discussed diet with her, as well as Dr. Plechner's protocol.  Another person stopped by and asked about stomatitis.  I gave her the card and also the name of Dr. Plecher's book and the link to my website.

By the way I did buy this book.  It is sitting here waiting to be read. I haven't even started flipping through it yet.  Blame it on the stack of good library books.  I do plan to have it read before Mazy cat's next check up.  I want to start her on the pred I think. If vet insists on the specif blood panels first then okay.

But diet alone is just not doing it for her.

multistars multistars multistars  YOU JUST MADE MY DAY!!

The vet will need to do specific blood panels.  Not all of the tests needed are standard, but they need to be done to determine the correct dose for Mazy.  The dose that works for one animal may be too high or too low for another.  To be fair, the tests may be pricey (I don't know the actual cost) but that said, in the long run it may be worth it if it helps Mazy.   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
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Offline Lola

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Re: Alfred J. Plechner, DVM
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2016, 08:21:04 PM »
Super happy you got the book, MC! 
Thanks a million Pookie and DeeDee for your input.
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