Author Topic: Recommended Reading For Those New To Raw?  (Read 1485 times)

Offline Lola

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Recommended Reading For Those New To Raw?
« on: March 11, 2016, 11:19:18 AM »
My dental hygienist is interested in feeding her 1 1/2 year old dog raw.  Any book suggestions? 
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Recommended Reading For Those New To Raw?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2016, 11:41:39 AM »
If she doesn't mind that it's technically for cats, I would recommend "Your Cat:  Simple Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life" by Elizabeth M. Hodgkins, DVM, Esq.  It doesn't go into transitioning as much, but is very thorough about the PFI and proper diet for our carnivorous companions.

If she's looking more for information on transitioning a pet to raw, I can't think of any books off the top of my head, but (again for cats), catinfo.org does go into detail about how to do it with cats.  It would also apply to dogs, IMO.

I hope this helps, and kudos to her!
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Offline Lola

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Re: Recommended Reading For Those New To Raw?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2016, 12:02:12 PM »
Quote
very thorough about the PFI and proper diet for our carnivorous companions.
  That is exactly why I wanted to recommend that book.  But...

A.  I'm not sure if she is a "I don't like cats" person and would blow off the book (and info) for that reason.
B.  I can't remember if dogs are addressed at all.  (All my books are currently in storage.) 
C.  From my experience with Lacy dog, I think dogs do require some fruits and vegetables.  Since cats do not, I assume the topic wouldn't be recommended in a cat book.

I'm not totally against the idea of recommending that book.  I'm just thinking out loud right now.   :)
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Offline Lola

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Re: Recommended Reading For Those New To Raw?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2016, 12:06:16 PM »
Her line of work will help her understanding....and me mentioning the furkids dentals before and after raw.  :) 
Also, raw meat doesn't make her squeamish in any way.  HUGE plus! 

The good thing about the conversation taking place at a dentist office... I had no choice but to contain my excitement!  I wasn't in a position to over-whelm her with loads of information.  lol

I remember "Not Fit for a Dog!: The Truth about Manufactured Cat and Dog Food" by Michael W Fox, Elizabeth Hodgkins, and Marion E Smart being a good read.  BUT I can't remember if it is pretty much just about commercial food, or if it is somewhat comparable to "Your Cat." 

I guess what I am looking for is a book that covers why the PFI sucks and a non-overwhelming introduction to raw.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 12:21:26 PM by Lola »
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Offline DeeDee

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"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
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Offline Lola

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Re: Recommended Reading For Those New To Raw?
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2016, 12:29:46 PM »
DeeDee,
Have you read any of the books you posted?  Just wondering in case I have any questions.  :)
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Offline Lola

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Re: Recommended Reading For Those New To Raw?
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2016, 12:32:10 PM »
Someone should sell prey model frozen meals.  It sure would be easier to recommend a particular food for beginners!  :)
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Recommended Reading For Those New To Raw?
« Reply #7 on: March 11, 2016, 04:38:51 PM »
Yes. I have. That's what I base the boys diets on.

Edit: I don't have Dr Becker's or Dr Dodd's books. The Library got them on regional loan for me. I elected not to buy those. They couldn't get Lew Olson's though, so I bought that one.

When it comes down to the real make-up of all 3 books, they're really a lot alike.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 04:55:34 PM by DeeDee »
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Recommended Reading For Those New To Raw?
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2016, 09:47:09 PM »
  That is exactly why I wanted to recommend that book.  But...

A.  I'm not sure if she is a "I don't like cats" person and would blow off the book (and info) for that reason.
B.  I can't remember if dogs are addressed at all.  (All my books are currently in storage.) 
C.  From my experience with Lacy dog, I think dogs do require some fruits and vegetables.  Since cats do not, I assume the topic wouldn't be recommended in a cat book.

I'm not totally against the idea of recommending that book.  I'm just thinking out loud right now.   :)

For "B" -- no, she doesn't really address dogs except to say they are omnivores.  I don't agree . . . IMO they are carnivores, though not obligate like cats are.  Dogs can survive on a plant-based diet, unlike cats, but given the choice I think they would go after every time.

C  I don't think she recommended fruits or veggies, either.  I don't think it hurts to add plant matter to dogs' diet.  I don't know if they need it, but then, I'm no expert.  I think where it might benefit them is the added fiber, like eating the fur/skin of prey would add fiber.  But again, I'm by no means an expert.  Also just thinking out loud.

I was hoping DeeDee would have some suggestions!   :) thumbsup1
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Recommended Reading For Those New To Raw?
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2016, 11:02:16 PM »

C  I don't think she recommended fruits or veggies, either.  I don't think it hurts to add plant matter to dogs' diet.  I don't know if they need it, but then, I'm no expert.  I think where it might benefit them is the added fiber, like eating the fur/skin of prey would add fiber.  But again, I'm by no means an expert.  Also just thinking out loud.


The reason I think dogs need fruits and veggies is because, though many won't admit it, wolves scavenged and ate what they could in bad hunting times. PLUS, our dogs really aren't wolves, and the majority of the breeds of today were developed eating what we ate and what they could catch when people didn't have enough for them. They were fed breads, fruits, vegetables and meat scraps. I've even read (somewhere) that the fruits and vegetables that a dog gets should be based on the F&V's available in their country of origin. Like Barkly should get plenty of barley (nope), cabbage, fish carrots, and potatoes since he's a breed that's over 1000 yrs old and that's what they had the most readily available in Wales. Well Barkly hates fish so that's out too.

Interestingly enough, a lot of the Russians believe that this is how Vlad's breed should be fed too despite the breed being less than 100 yrs old, but his food is now limited to potassium amounts, and though their ancestors had grains, V&B get limited to a lot of organic chick peas and SOME quinoa and chia seeds to replace the sweet potatoes I used to give them. I specially mark the packages of V&F for Barkly where I put sweet potatoes in the mix so that Vlad doesn't get it.

The Russian women I've talked to said that processed dog food wasn't available in their country until the past couple of decades, and this breed definitely wasn't used to getting it. They claim it used to be nothing for these dogs to live 15 and still be working at age 13 eating the food of their people, and they blame the shortened lives on the foods they're fed now.

So, yes. Mine are going to get F&V's because I've been told more than once to since these breeds were developed on these foods. Plus, I'm no longer so sure that they get all the vitamins and minerals they need from the meat available today since the meat we eat is fed differently from the past generations too.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Lola

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Re: Recommended Reading For Those New To Raw?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2016, 08:58:11 AM »
I have read soooooooooooo much about whether dogs require fruits and veggies or not... my head spins.  I read a bazillion reasons why they do not, and am convinced of it.  Then I read reasons why they do, and change my mind.   Silly7

My non-scientific conclusion:
When Lacy is fed meat, bones, and organs only several days in a row, I notice she eats grass.  When I feed her Honest Kitchen (their dog version that contains fruits and veggies) or toss her a few bites of fruits and veggies from our refrigerator... no grass eating.

I've done this experiment a few times... always the same results. 
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Recommended Reading For Those New To Raw?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2016, 03:55:21 PM »
That's what our dogs do. Eat grass when I don't give them anything but meat & bone. I still give a small amount of greens to them b/c I found out that if you cook them 3 times and drain & rinse, it removes a lot of the potassium. That's how I give him the chickpeas to replace sweet potatoes that I used to give them. They're organic and canned at Aldi, and if you rinse them, a LOT of the potassium disappears. I wish I could still give them a lot of raw V&F, but it doesn't work with him anymore. He just can't digest it. And with my situation, it's just too much work to completely change things just for one of them. The sweet potatoes for Barkly are easy, but mixing up some batches raw for him and having to cook other batches for Vlad is just too much for the way my life is. It's just easier to cook for both.
 
If you want to know nutrient values of foods, this site helps because it gives values for different ways of preparation:  https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods

BTW, the book from Lew Olson, a lot of people fuss about it having specific supplements in it, but I found it helpful to figure out exactly how much of something a dog really needs in their diet. Like the calcium thing if you can't/don't give bone. I was able to refer back to it when we found out that Vlad can't process bone any longer. All you have to do is look up the supplements and you can see how much specific vitamins and minerals a dog needs. Calcium she tells you exactly what--900 mg per pound of meat to balance the phosphorus.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

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