Author Topic: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs  (Read 2675 times)

Offline Lola

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Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« on: May 20, 2016, 02:44:45 PM »
As most of you already know... I have been feeding Lacy dog a raw diet for a while.  I feed her from a variety of sources ... raw meat from Hare-Today, dehydrated raw, commercial frozen raw, etc. There is so much info out there (not everyone says the same thing) that I want to be sure that she gets everything she is needing.  I mix her varieties up a LOT! 
I spent SO much time keeping veggies and carbs away from the cats, that I have to remind myself that some foods that are bad for cats are very good for dogs. 

A few snips I found interesting.  Bolding is mine... 

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If you are feeding a raw diet, you may already know that the commonly followed ratio of meat, raw bones and veggies is 50/25/25.


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Because protein takes longer to digest, if you feed fruit and protein together, fruit may start to ferment, creating alcohol.

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One of the reasons why some dogs refuse to eat vegetables is because in natural settings wild canines eat plant material pre-digested.

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For some reason, dogs do not have a good ability to digest carrots, especially if they are coarsely grated or in chunks. Some sources are also concerned about the levels of sugar in carrots

Most know to avoid onions. 

There is a lot of info to read.  The full article can be read here:  http://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/11014993-what-veggies-are-good-for-dogs

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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2016, 03:18:55 PM »
Since I have to cook veggies for Vlad now, I quit worrying about keeping it separate from their meat. Raw veggie/fruit lunch just wasn't working for him anymore. He seems fine again now that he's getting mostly low-heat cooked for fresh and frozen, or some organic canned that I rinse to remove more potassium.

Except for the organic canned that I can always find at Aldi, they're eating seasonal organics. I can always find fresh, organic carrots at Aldi though, but I never know what I'm going to find the next 6 weeks in the produce or frozen section. This is working for them. Two meals a day, at least 2 poops a day. No burping or indigestion unless he has had a stressful day and runs out of prednisone by dinnertime. Solution for that is simple. Give him another mg of prednisone.

I've been mixing up veg/fruit puree today.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Catgirl64

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2017, 07:48:42 AM »
Any thoughts on Honest Kitchen to mix with the raw meat?  If this works, it would be perfect for me, as I could just set aside some of the chopped up meat when I make cat food to mix with it.  With no meat grinder, and no way to get one in the foreseeable future, anything that saves time would be a blessing to me.  Dicing up all that meat by hand is quite labor-intensive! 

I've pretty much decided against raw on the bone for them right now - Lily is much too fond of hiding her treasures in my bed.  Not so bad if it's a beef tendon or bully stick, but I really don't want to lie down and find myself snuggled up to a half-eaten chicken thigh!  I'm going to have to find some other way of achieving the correct balance, with foods the dogs are not tempted to carry away from their bowls to eat. 
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 08:17:50 AM by Catgirl64 »

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2017, 08:49:04 AM »
Any thoughts on Honest Kitchen to mix with the raw meat?  If this works, it would be perfect for me, as I could just set aside some of the chopped up meat when I make cat food to mix with it.  With no meat grinder, and no way to get one in the foreseeable future, anything that saves time would be a blessing to me.  Dicing up all that meat by hand is quite labor-intensive! 


I know a lot of people that use Honest Kitchen, Sojos, and Dr Harvey's. We use some Dr. Harvey's when we're in the RV. We've got one of the larger refrigerators in ours, but it's still limiting if we're going to be gone for a week because we have to have food too. We just don't feed it all the time because it's price prohibitive since I've got a giant in the house.



I've pretty much decided against raw on the bone for them right now - Lily is much too fond of hiding her treasures in my bed.  Not so bad if it's a beef tendon or bully stick, but I really don't want to lie down and find myself snuggled up to a half-eaten chicken thigh!  I'm going to have to find some other way of achieving the correct balance, with foods the dogs are not tempted to carry away from their bowls to eat. 


I no longer feed ours any bone b/c since he developed Addison's, Vlad has problems digesting bone. It comes out too whole, and I'm not giving him more prednisone just to help digest it. The cortisol that prednisone replaces is a really important part of digestion. So, I use calcium citrate supplements. The formula is 800-1000 mg per pound of meat. I wouldn't worry about it though if you're going to feed one of those other food-mixers.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Catgirl64

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2017, 09:50:59 AM »
I know a lot of people that use Honest Kitchen, Sojos, and Dr Harvey's. We use some Dr. Harvey's when we're in the RV. We've got one of the larger refrigerators in ours, but it's still limiting if we're going to be gone for a week because we have to have food too. We just don't feed it all the time because it's price prohibitive since I've got a giant in the house.



I no longer feed ours any bone b/c since he developed Addison's, Vlad has problems digesting bone. It comes out too whole, and I'm not giving him more prednisone just to help digest it. The cortisol that prednisone replaces is a really important part of digestion. So, I use calcium citrate supplements. The formula is 800-1000 mg per pound of meat. I wouldn't worry about it though if you're going to feed one of those other food-mixers.

Cost won't be a big issue, at least with Honest Kitchen, as I'm feeding a Chihuahua and a Pomeranian.  I'm not familiar with Sojos or Dr. Harvey's, but I will check those out, too.  I like the idea of some kind of base mix, as that would make it easier to offer a variety of protein sources.   

Offline Catgirl64

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2017, 02:28:19 PM »
Cost won't be a big issue, at least with Honest Kitchen, as I'm feeding a Chihuahua and a Pomeranian.  I'm not familiar with Sojos or Dr. Harvey's, but I will check those out, too.  I like the idea of some kind of base mix, as that would make it easier to offer a variety of protein sources.   

Okay, I am trying all three of these.  Ordered the smallest packages I could, and I will see how the dogs like them.  If all go over well, I may use them in rotation.  I need *something* to put in those airtight bins I bought for kibble.   ;D

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2017, 03:48:47 PM »
Okay, I am trying all three of these.  Ordered the smallest packages I could, and I will see how the dogs like them.  If all go over well, I may use them in rotation.  I need *something* to put in those airtight bins I bought for kibble.   ;D

I tried all three in the beginning too! Since Barkly is the picky one, it ended up being his choice more than anything else. I won a bag of Dr. Harvey's, then decided to try the other two. He'd eat all of them, but he gobbled the Dr. Harvey's.

There's also Grandma Lucy's, but I don't think they make just the add-in, I think they're all meals. We've never tried this brand, but you can try samples of it for $1:00 each:

https://www.grandmalucys.com/products/samples
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Catgirl64

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2017, 12:37:26 AM »
I tried all three in the beginning too! Since Barkly is the picky one, it ended up being his choice more than anything else. I won a bag of Dr. Harvey's, then decided to try the other two. He'd eat all of them, but he gobbled the Dr. Harvey's.

There's also Grandma Lucy's, but I don't think they make just the add-in, I think they're all meals. We've never tried this brand, but you can try samples of it for $1:00 each:

https://www.grandmalucys.com/products/samples

It looks like they do make a base mix.  I might try some samples later on.  Between a new scale, these three base mixes, and all the stuff I just got for the cats, I've reached my spending limit for this week!  I'll just be happy when the mixes I ordered get here.  My dogs, especially Bandit, are pestering me to death every time I take out the cats' homemade food.  They still have their Tylee's, but they want the raw, and I can't give them any, because I've already put in the Alnutrin, which is for cats only.  I have several lbs. of surface-baked chicken in the freezer, just waiting to get started when the mixes arrive.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2017, 05:19:28 AM »
Just following. :)

Offline Lola

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2017, 10:32:01 AM »
My dogs, especially Bandit, are pestering me to death every time I take out the cats' homemade food.  They still have their Tylee's, but they want the raw, and I can't give them any, because I've already put in the Alnutrin, which is for cats only.  I have several lbs. of surface-baked chicken in the freezer, just waiting to get started when the mixes arrive.

I add Alnutrin to the raw meat I get from Hare-Today and the grocery store.  Lacy dog and the cats all eat it.  It is safe for both. 

The only meals that are different, between Lacy dog and the cats, are the meals that contain fruits and veggies (Honest Kitchen base)...  I dont feed the cats Honest Kitchen anything. 
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 10:40:46 AM by Lola »
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Offline Catgirl64

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2017, 01:40:06 PM »
I add Alnutrin to the raw meat I get from Hare-Today and the grocery store.  Lacy dog and the cats all eat it.  It is safe for both. 

The only meals that are different, between Lacy dog and the cats, are the meals that contain fruits and veggies (Honest Kitchen base)...  I dont feed the cats Honest Kitchen anything.

So it's okay for dogs to have some?  The package says cats only, but I couldn't really see what the problem would be, I was just being super careful.  I was planning to just prep the meat, and then keep some back for the dogs when I make cat food, but if they can have Alnutrin, too, it will be that much easier for me.  I wouldn't want to do it if they were bigger dogs, as Alnutrin is not cheap, but Bandit probably weighs less than my largest cats, and Lily is smaller even than Mouse or Violet.  I need to weigh the dogs today.   

« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 01:53:50 PM by Catgirl64 »

Offline Lola

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2017, 03:35:11 PM »
So it's okay for dogs to have some?  The package says cats only, but I couldn't really see what the problem would be, I was just being super careful.  I was planning to just prep the meat, and then keep some back for the dogs when I make cat food, but if they can have Alnutrin, too, it will be that much easier for me.  I wouldn't want to do it if they were bigger dogs, as Alnutrin is not cheap, but Bandit probably weighs less than my largest cats, and Lily is smaller even than Mouse or Violet.  I need to weigh the dogs today.   



There was a technical reason why Alnutrin can't say it is safe for dogs, but I can't remember what they said.  Email and ask them!  They are very friendly and helpful.

Also, half the world says if you are feeding 80/10/5/5... don't need to add anything.  The other half says you do.  For that reason... I do both.  :) 
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Offline Catgirl64

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2017, 04:26:13 AM »
There was a technical reason why Alnutrin can't say it is safe for dogs, but I can't remember what they said.  Email and ask them!  They are very friendly and helpful.

Also, half the world says if you are feeding 80/10/5/5... don't need to add anything.  The other half says you do.  For that reason... I do both.  :)

Some legal technicality would be my guess.  I'm not going to worry about it.  I'll still probably leave it out of the dogs' food, just because it's kind of expensive if they don't actually need it, but I didn't seen anything in the ingredient list that would hurt a dog, and it certainly wouldn't be the first time my dogs ate something intended for cats.  The way Lily jumps and climbs, it's impossible to avoid!

Tried the Sojos last night, mixed with chopped up beef.  Bandit ate some of it, Lily wouldn't touch it (I think she's been licking the cats' plates clean.)  I'm not sure what I think of it, prepared as directed, the proportion of plant-based to meat seems awfully high.  Only 1/2 cup of meat to a whole cup of dry pre-mix and 1 1/2 cup water?  I was expecting the proportions to be more the reverse, if that.

I'll try either Dr. Harvey's or The Honest Kitchen when they have finished this small batch of Sojos.  I also have a turkey neck and giblets thawing in the fridge.  I'm going to break the neck into pieces, and see how they like it.  I am hoping to get them to eat at least some raw meaty bones, and necks seem like something they might be able to handle.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 04:39:20 AM by Catgirl64 »

Offline Lola

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2017, 08:51:07 AM »
Quote
I'm not sure what I think of it, prepared as directed, the proportion of plant-based to meat seems awfully high.  Only 1/2 cup of meat to a whole cup of dry pre-mix and 1 1/2 cup water?  I was expecting the proportions to be more the reverse, if that.

I think the same of Honest Kitchen.  I only buy the Base one and add my own meat.  A cup of dry to a cup of meat... plus water.  Too much mix.  IMHO.  I only feed it to Lacy dog once every 2 or 3 days.  Two days in a row gives her gas. 

DeeDee can tell you exactly how much of a dog's diet should be fruits and/or veggies. 
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 08:53:32 AM by Lola »
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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2017, 10:27:33 AM »


DeeDee can tell you exactly how much of a dog's diet should be fruits and/or veggies. 

According to all the integrative Dr's and other raw feeding "specialists" that promote veg/fruit, they should get approximately 25-30% V&F of the whole meal, with fruits being 5-10% of that 25-30%. They digest puree better than whole fruits and veg pieces.

So a meal with F&V should be about 70-75% of the meat, bone, and organs. It's easy enough to use a kitchen scale to get these proportions. Just measure 5/8 to 3/4 an ounce of meat products to 1/4 to 3/8 ounce fruit and veg puree.

From what I've seen, all of the pre-mixes resemble formulations of "regular" foods like kibble instead of a raw diet so that they can claim "balanced and complete" by AAFCO standards. They might not have AAFCO seals, but they can say they follow the guidelines. So, yes. In my mind it's unbalanced to mix it the way they say it should be.

When I use the DR. Harvey's on the road, they get the kind with the meat already in it, and we feed only 1 of their 2 daily meals with it. But we're still not feeding it for long-term, so if it's unbalanced compared to the way we normally feed, it's not going to hurt them.

"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

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