Author Topic: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs  (Read 1602 times)

Offline Catgirl64

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2017, 06:03:58 PM »
According to all the integrative Dr's and other raw feeding "specialists" that promote veg/fruit, they should get approximately 25-30% V&F of the whole meal, with fruits being 5-10% of that 25-30%. They digest puree better than whole fruits and veg pieces.

So a meal with F&V should be about 70-75% of the meat, bone, and organs. It's easy enough to use a kitchen scale to get these proportions. Just measure 5/8 to 3/4 an ounce of meat products to 1/4 to 3/8 ounce fruit and veg puree.

From what I've seen, all of the pre-mixes resemble formulations of "regular" foods like kibble instead of a raw diet so that they can claim "balanced and complete" by AAFCO standards. They might not have AAFCO seals, but they can say they follow the guidelines. So, yes. In my mind it's unbalanced to mix it the way they say it should be.

Thanks for the information.  It kind of confirms what I was planning to do, which is adjust the proportions.  I'll have to experiment a little with the different bases to get it right, but there is no way I am going to feed anything that is 2/3 plant based to a dog.  I would do it now and then, I guess, but I'm hoping to use one or more of these base mixes as a regular part of their diet, and that's going to require some tweaking.  I had some beef my cats didn't want, and when I mixed that with the Sojos I had already prepared, increasing the amount of meat to more like what you have mentioned, the dogs liked it a lot better, or at least Bandit did.  I still think Lily is licking the cats' plates clean when my back is turned. 

Update:  With the extra meat added, Lily did eat some of it. 

Now that I think about it, I was so pleased with how my food processor worked at grinding up meat, I may just start making my own fruit and veg puree.  Wheeee!
« Last Edit: December 29, 2017, 06:56:50 PM by Catgirl64 »

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2017, 07:25:31 PM »

Now that I think about it, I was so pleased with how my food processor worked at grinding up meat, I may just start making my own fruit and veg puree.  Wheeee!

You're welcome. If you're going to make your own, a rule I try to follow is at least 1 yellow, 1 orange/red, one green, and I use dried cranberries or frozen blueberries for their fruit since they hit that dark spectrum that's such a good antioxidant.

"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Catgirl64

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2018, 09:56:21 AM »
Just mixed up some Dr. Harvey's, added the meat and oil, and am waiting for it to get to room temperature.  I will post more when the dogs have eaten, but I am a lot happier with the recommended proportions of this diet, and with the finer texture of the base mix. 

I have noticed some differences in the dogs since doing away with the kibble.  Bandit's digestive issues seem to be a thing of the past - no more runny poo, and I am thrilled with Lily.  She wasn't exactly scrawny on dry food, but her spine seemed a bit prominent, and her paws looked too pink (like many Chihuahuas, she lacks a thick coat), like she was licking them too much.  Her paws look better, and she's turning into a positively muscular little dog for her delicate build.  I'm even hoping her coat may thicken up, although I suspect most of its thinness is genetic.

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2018, 10:54:43 AM »
You'll definitely notice some changes. We noticed all kinds of changes with Barkly once we got Vlad when Barkly was a year old. Vlad was weaned on raw, and it wasn't recommended that he be fed kibble because with the Black Russian breed, they hadn't been fed kibble for that long (at the time it had been only about 20 years when kibble became a possibility in Russia), and breeders had been seeing differences in the BRTs that were fed it--worse coats, shorter life-spans, food allergies, etc.

"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Catgirl64

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2018, 09:55:22 PM »
Dr. Harvey's is definitely their favorite of the three base mixes I got - if I continue to order base mix, that will be the one I use.  I suspect that has something to do with the proportions they suggest, and I will adapt the Honest Kitchen and Sojos accordingly, and maybe add a little oil to those, too.  I don't want to waste them.  I am also thinking of spinning the Sojos through my food processor for a finer grind - I don't think they liked the bigger chunks of fruit and veg very much. 

On the bright side, I think I can safely say that my dogs are now raw-fed.  No kibble at all for a while, and they never seemed to miss it.  The only time they got canned was when they occasionally licked the cat's plates clean, and they've lost interest in Tylee's, as well.  When I put the food down tonight, they devoured it.  They have eaten it before, but tonight they were really excited about their meal. 

Next step will be giving them some chicken gizzards and small edible bones for their teeth.   

« Last Edit: January 02, 2018, 10:02:09 PM by Catgirl64 »

Offline Lola

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2018, 10:13:14 AM »
Thanks for sharing your experience concerning Dr. Harvey's!!  I just ordered some for Lacy dog. 
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Offline Catgirl64

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2018, 04:43:42 PM »
I offered Sojos again.  This time I pretty much ignored the proportions they suggest, and prepped enough mix to make one cup, then added three cups of prepped meat, so the meal was 25% fruit and veg and 75% meat.  Added a little salmon oil.  This was much more readily accepted than the weird proportions they suggest on the package.  I will try this same method next time I use Honest Kitchen. 


Offline Catgirl64

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2018, 07:01:53 PM »
It worked.  They will eat Honest Kitchen, too, and appear to like it.  The main thing seems to be to make sure that the prepared base mix is no more than about a quarter of the meal.  I mix it, measure it, and then add three parts meat to one part premix.   

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2018, 07:59:01 PM »
It worked.  They will eat Honest Kitchen, too, and appear to like it.  The main thing seems to be to make sure that the prepared base mix is no more than about a quarter of the meal.  I mix it, measure it, and then add three parts meat to one part premix.   

That's GREAT! I think that most of the companies put so much of their premix (other than getting you to buy more) is because of AAFCO guidelines that they've all been trying to get. You're not supposed to have over a certain percentage of protein according to them I believe.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Lola

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2018, 11:20:27 PM »
Wish I had your brains, Catgirl.  My gut told me that Lacy was getting too many fruits and veggies, when feeding the Honest Kitchen.  I would add a little more meat once in a while.   Then I stressed about it, because I wasn't following their directions to the letter.  I didn't want to be one of those raw feeders that did it wrong.  *sigh*

At least I didn't feed it every day.  I bet many people do.  :(
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Offline Catgirl64

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2018, 04:54:49 AM »
Wish I had your brains, Catgirl.  My gut told me that Lacy was getting too many fruits and veggies, when feeding the Honest Kitchen.  I would add a little more meat once in a while.   Then I stressed about it, because I wasn't following their directions to the letter.  I didn't want to be one of those raw feeders that did it wrong.  *sigh*

At least I didn't feed it every day.  I bet many people do.  :(

I worried about not following the directions, too, for about 5 minutes.  Then I considered the fact that when I fed previous dogs a raw diet years ago, it was ALL Frankenprey, with no fruits and veggies at all, and thought about how I would make the food if I was doing my own fruit/veg puree and using the proportions DeeDee suggested (which I will probably do, once these base mixes are used up.) 

It seems like there are two schools of thought about whether dogs need fruit and veg at all.  When I get the dogs where I want them to be, they will probably receive some meals that include them, mixed with food I've prepared for the cats, and some that are strictly Frankenprey.  I definitely want the to be eating some bone, for their teeth.

I don't think brains have a lot to do with it, but I thank you for the kind words.  It's far more likely that I just don't have a problem with questioning "the experts" if their advice doesn't make sense to me.  That's something I think most of us here have in common, is it not?  ;)  It takes a bit of a defiant streak to venture into raw feeding at all, given the PFI's influence on how most vets are trained. 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2018, 05:08:51 AM by Catgirl64 »

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2018, 08:01:31 AM »
Love hearing about how well Bandit and Lily are doing on the raw diet.  Makes such a difference doesn't it? Are these premixes you guys are talking about?  Or prepared raw? 

Either way, I always advise feeding a variety of sources in rotation so there isn't any reason why you couldn't continue to feed all three brands, whatever they are.

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2018, 08:28:19 AM »
Are these premixes you guys are talking about?  Or prepared raw? 



Yes, they're all premixes like Honest Kitchen that you just add meat to for them.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2018, 08:32:23 AM »


It seems like there are two schools of thought about whether dogs need fruit and veg at all. 


I'm of the BARF school of thought just because I've noticed that my dogs want to graze like cattle if they don't get the F&V mix. I don't think all dogs do that when they're prey or frankenprey, but mine do. Especially Vlad. So, I think something's missing for them and they're trying to correct it when they eat the grass.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Lola

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Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2018, 09:45:27 AM »

I'm of the BARF school of thought just because I've noticed that my dogs want to graze like cattle if they don't get the F&V mix. I don't think all dogs do that when they're prey or frankenprey, but mine do. Especially Vlad. So, I think something's missing for them and they're trying to correct it when they eat the grass.

When Lacy was fed just meat, bones, and organs... she would eat grass like there was no tomorrow.  AND drag her rear end quite a bit.  Once I started adding fruits and veggies... no more grazing or dragging.  I'm convinced dogs need fruits and veggies. 
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