Author Topic: The Outside Dilemma  (Read 64014 times)

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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #75 on: June 07, 2014, 03:03:54 PM »
She actually seemed to LIKE it Lola.  I was shocked too.  But I'm still not sure if it is safe for her.

Offline Pookie

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2014, 06:13:51 PM »
I've read that it's acidic, not alkalkine.  In fact, it was suggested as a test to determine if you have too little acid in the stomach -- take a couple of teaspoons (I think, it might have been tablespoons) and if you didn't have heartburn after you ate, then you were low on stomach acid.  The ACV was providing the acid that the stomach needed for digestion.

For what it's worth, I did a quick check on earthclinic.com and some folks have used ACV to treat kidney stones and bladder issues.

She actually seemed to LIKE it Lola.  I was shocked too.  But I'm still not sure if it is safe for her.

If you're willing, try it (1 drop ACV/meal) for a day or two and check the pee strips.  If you see a change that shows her urine is going alkaline, then stop the ACV.  If you don't see a change, AND the ACV seems to be helping her digestion, keep using it and checking the urine strips.  If at any time you see a change in her urine pH towards alkaline, stop the ACV.  But only if you're willing.  I certainly don't want to cause problems for Mazy or you.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #77 on: June 07, 2014, 06:35:26 PM »
I gave her another meal with a drop tonight.  She definitely LIKES it, isn't that funny?  I am grateful to you for thinking of the possibility of low acid in the tum and suggesting the ACV, Pookie.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #78 on: June 07, 2014, 06:56:51 PM »
Ok, now I'm finding information that says betaine HCl is natural.  So when I visit my health food store this weekend (the owner knows everything), I'll ask her.  Meanwhile, this is the article I found that says it's natural:

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/betaine-hydrochloride/

I also tried to check Dr. Becker's site to see if she mentioned anything about it, but couldn't find anything.  I then searched their pet products and found this, which includes the betaine HCl:  http://shop.mercola.com/product/healthy-pets-digestive-enzymes,271,90.htm.  I don't know if you'd want to try it, since it also has digestive enzymes, but they may actually work better since this includes the betaine.

I almost forgot:  I did read that catnip soothes the tummy.  I think you've given it to her when she was showing signs that she was going to vomit, but it might help to give her some with every meal.  Just an idea.   :)

That first link is a very interesting article.

As for Dr Mecola's digestive enzymes, I looked into them long ago.  The page no longer lists all the "other ingredients", but it used to and one of the ingredients in the Mercola digestive enzymes was cellulose.  I wrote to ask what they meant by "cellulose" and the answer was pine roots. :(

Soo..one of the reasons the ACV appeals to me is that there isn't anything else in it.  no whey, no rice powder, no cellulose, no nothing but pure organic raw ACV with the mother. And it may even benefit her EARS too.

Offline Pookie

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #79 on: June 07, 2014, 09:32:09 PM »
If you're willing, try it (1 drop ACV/meal) for a day or two and check the pee strips.  If you see a change that shows her urine is going alkaline, then stop the ACV.  If you don't see a change, AND the ACV seems to be helping her digestion, keep using it and checking the urine strips.  If at any time you see a change in her urine pH towards alkaline, stop the ACV.  But only if you're willing.  I certainly don't want to cause problems for Mazy or you.

Just tossing this out there, but here's a different option (and I think I prefer this over the one above, as it's gradual):  1 drop ACV in 1 meal, then no ACV for the rest of the day, and check the urine pH.  Also note if she crouches after that meal.  If you don't see a change over, say, several days, you can increase to 1 drop ACV in 2 meals, etc.  Keep checking the urine pH, and if she's crouching after the ACV meals compared to the ones without.  And so on, increasing the number of meals with 1 drop ACV, etc., monitoring the urine pH and if she crouches after those meals.  If her urine pH starts to get alkaline, stop the ACV.  If she crouches as often with the ACV meals as without, at that point I'm thinking it would be a choice between stopping the ACV or increasing to 2 drops a meal, as long as her urine pH doesn't turn alkaline.

Soo..one of the reasons the ACV appeals to me is that there isn't anything else in it.  no whey, no rice powder, no cellulose, no nothing but pure organic raw ACV with the mother. And it may even benefit her EARS too.

That's why it appeals to me, too.  I was trying to think of something to help her stomach acidity that would be truly natural and safe, in other words, "keep it simple."  That seems to be the best route for cats.

Side note:  I did ask my health food store owner about the betaine (just for my own curiosity), and she thinks it's manufactured, so that's definitely out, IMO.

I gave her another meal with a drop tonight.  She definitely LIKES it, isn't that funny?  I am grateful to you for thinking of the possibility of low acid in the tum and suggesting the ACV, Pookie.

You're welcome!  I'd be thrilled if it helps her.  Maybe she likes it because she needs it?  (That's total speculation -- I'm not trying to be a smart asp.  Silly7)
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #80 on: June 07, 2014, 09:54:41 PM »
Yes, I am doing it the slow way.

One drop yesterday. 

Two drops today. One with a morning meal, one with a supper meal.  Urine pH 4 1/2 hours after the supper meal is 6.5.  Like I've said, I don't know how accurate the strips are, based on comparison with the vets they read as inaccurate on the low side. I collected a sample at home once that I tested before rushing it to the vet.  At home it tested as 6.75, at the vet it tested as 8 

Since so many of her tiny servings already have things added to them, it works out okay that only one or two meals a day will have the drop in it.

I still can't get over how she gobbles up that 2/10 ounce with a drop of Bragg in it.  Who would have ever thought it?   And you may be right it is because she needs it Pookie, I woulnd't discount that at all, not at all.

Offline Pookie

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #81 on: June 07, 2014, 10:17:49 PM »
Seriously fingerscrossed that it helps her tummy and has no effect (or maybe even improves) her urinary pH!  Please keep us posted!  fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #82 on: June 08, 2014, 07:01:19 AM »
Still trying to work out the best time for these doses.

What are your thoughts on giving it with the SEB meal at mid-day, or the Vet's-Best meal in the middle of the night? Do you think the mucilage coating will defeat the purpose?  Or will the ACV still have the desired effect, and her esophagus will be protected from any harsh effects of the ACV?

The goal is to help her body start to produce enough of it's own acid, right?

I wonder what difference this might make with her grass-passing problems.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #83 on: June 08, 2014, 07:40:20 AM »
Mazy had a drop of ACV in her Rad Cat this morning.  She wrinkled her nose at it.  I finally had to sprinkle a little forti flora over it to get her to eat it.  So now I know.  She LIKES it in her canned food, but doesn't want her Rad Cat messed with.  funny2

Offline Pookie

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #84 on: June 08, 2014, 01:28:44 PM »
Mazy had a drop of ACV in her Rad Cat this morning.  She wrinkled her nose at it.  I finally had to sprinkle a little forti flora over it to get her to eat it.  So now I know.  She LIKES it in her canned food, but doesn't want her Rad Cat messed with.  funny2

Oops!   funny2  Oh well.  Maybe she doesn't need it for the raw, for some reason?  I love how she communicates with you!

Still trying to work out the best time for these doses.

What are your thoughts on giving it with the SEB meal at mid-day, or the Vet's-Best meal in the middle of the night? Do you think the mucilage coating will defeat the purpose?  Or will the ACV still have the desired effect, and her esophagus will be protected from any harsh effects of the ACV?

The goal is to help her body start to produce enough of it's own acid, right?

Yes, the goal is to get enough acid in her tummy to help with digestion (and the ACV is basically a supplement to provide the additional acid, ASSUMING that the issue is she's not producing enough), and that over time, her stomach will be "re-trained" to produce enough acid on it's own so that the ACV is no longer needed.  After reading the article Lola posted, I'm wondering if years of kibble "trains" the stomach to produce less acid, and her body just hasn't "turned off" that "training."

So, hypothetically, anything that she gets in her food (slippery elm, Vet's Best, etc.) should be ok with the ACV, because the ACV is just providing the additional acid that her stomach normally would be producing on it's own.  In other words, if her stomach was producing normal amounts of acid, the supplements would be fine.  The ACV is just a way to get more acid in her stomach, and the supplements should be ok.  Again, hypothetically.  :)

I'm thinking the slippery elm will help coat both her esophagus and stomach lining, which is a good thing, and the ACV should still work.  The stomach has mucous to protect the lining from the stomach acid, so hopefully the SEB will help with that, while the ACV provides the extra acid that her tummy is missing.

I wonder what difference this might make with her grass-passing problems.

I know, I kinda got this thread wayyyyy off tract with my hypothesizing.   :-[  Sorry about that.  I'm not sure if it will have any impact on the grass-passing, but maybe the extra acid will help break down the grass enough for her to pass it more easily?   :-\  (Hey, we can hope  . . .)
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #85 on: June 08, 2014, 03:51:34 PM »
No way, you have been a terrific help!  DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

Wait 'til you guys see what I've been up to today..... Silly7

Anybody care to guess?   woohoogif

Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #86 on: June 08, 2014, 04:44:10 PM »
Forgot to mention.  Mazy cat's poop was smaller today. Could this mean she is digesting her food better already?  Hmm......

Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #87 on: June 09, 2014, 05:38:38 AM »
Had her drop of ACV in her middle of the night meal.  Urine pH (five hours later) down to 6.0.  Going to skip a day.

Offline Lola

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #88 on: June 09, 2014, 08:12:30 AM »
I don't have anything intelligent to add, but I am reading...with LOTS of interest!!! 

Once you get Mazy's stomach "healed," she may not have to be fed as often.  ??
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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #89 on: June 10, 2014, 12:03:05 PM »
Had her drop of ACV in her middle of the night meal.  Urine pH (five hours later) down to 6.0.  Going to skip a day.

She's still getting just 1 drop in 1 meal for the day, right?  If so . . . wow, I'm surprised how 1 drop can change the pH that much.
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