Author Topic: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease  (Read 3058 times)

Offline Lola

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joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« on: July 10, 2015, 08:52:49 AM »
joy,
You mentioned (in a another thread) about one of your cats being diagnosed with stage 2 kidney disease, and you researching. 

How long ago (or recent) was the diagnosis? 
Everything you NEED to know about caring for your feline. www.catinfo.org

Offline joy

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Re: What Wet Brands Do You Feed ...And Why?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2015, 01:21:08 AM »
To Middle Child---You are quite right that theoreticlaly Sydney should not be eating dry food at all.  However, we have two other cats, one of whom is an 8 months old Ragdoll--did I mention that before? He (Ben) needs his dry food which is specially made for breeds like him. Our other Senior Cat happens to eat mostly wet food and occasionally dips in for dry food occasionally but Sydney really enjoys his dry food and now, he also eats up all his wet food, especially at the evening meal, although we feed wet food twice daily. The best news is that all three of our furkids drink a lot of water. We change the water 4 times per day and use large porcelain bowls suitable for a medium-sized dog. Our cats seem to like this set-up and so although Sydney is eating dry food, I see that this is being offset by the amount of water he is drinking. Also, his urination is normal. In other words, he's not drinking and then running to the litter box. All of his functions are normal and he is a very active, happy individual.

I am a survivor of 3 heart attacks, my first at age 21 and also a breast cancer survivor who had a bilateral mastectomy, chemo and radiation--I say this so you understand that I do believe in attacking all disease head on.  However, there are things I eat that I shouldn't, for quality of life--one must enjoy the time we have and I want Sydney to enjoy every day. Since Sydney is checked every 3 months and is doing extremely well---playing, eating, drinking, great stools, normal urination and very happy with clear eyes etc., I don't want to get him into a funk. We got him out of a funk when his sister died and that is when he went downhill. He is also on 2 medications, one for kidneys and one for increasing appetite and these are working exceptionally well. He doesn't run as fast as he used to but otherwise he's never been so healthy. Believe me, we are keeping our eyes peeled on him and our Vet is very devoted to his well-being---she even e-mails to check on him in-between visits.

I hope this answers your question Middle Child as to why we feed dry as well as wet food. I think I've written a blog here, way too long for a post---oops!
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 04:27:50 AM by joy »

Offline joy

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Re: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2015, 01:23:46 AM »
The diagnosis took place in November of 2014.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Re: What Wet Brands Do You Feed ...And Why?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2015, 07:26:38 AM »
Thank you for your detailed reply.  You've been through a lot, congratulations on getting through all your challenges with such a positive outlook on life.  I know it's not an easy thing to do.

However that "breed specific" food is a marketing scam.  All cats are strict obligate carnivores and do not require "breed specific" dry food.   What they all require is a diet high in meat, moderate fat (also from meat) and moisture.  Cats really cannot drink enough water to counteract a dry diet.

Have a look at the ingredients in that ragdoll feed.  (it is feed you know, not food).

http://www.royalcanin.com/products/products/cat-products/feline-breed-nutrition/ragdoll

chicken by product meal, brown rice, corn, corn gluten meal, chicken fat, wheat, wheat gluten, natural flavors, pea fiber, brewers rice, chicory, fish oil, vegetable oil, calcium sulfate, sodium silico aluminate, potassium chloride, DL-methionine, psyllium seed husk, fructooligosaccharides, taurine, L-lysine, salt, calcium carbonate, hydrolyzed yeast, choline chloride, vitamins [DL-alpha tocopherol acetate (source of vitamin E), inositol, niacin supplement, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), D-calcium pantothenate, biotin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), riboflavin supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin A acetate, folic acid, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement], glucosamine hydrochloride, marigold extract (Tagetes erecta L.), trace minerals [zinc proteinate, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, copper sulfate, calcium iodate, sodium selenite, copper proteinate] , L-carnitine, chondroitin sulfate, rosemary extract, preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid.

I won't nag but I don't like to see intelligent people like you who obviously really care about what your cats eat  (or any people for that matter) taken in by the corrupt pet food industry.  This feed, as a regular diet, will ruin most cats' digestions after a few years of steady eating.

 All that corn and wheat and rice, a cat does not need, and should not be eating that stuff. The lack of essential moisture aside, there isn't even any real meat!

It's obvious you like to be well informed so I do urge you to read more about feline nutrition and why they need a moisture rich diet (as opposed to 'drinking a lot of water').  If you got rid of the dry food altogether you would be amazed at the difference in your cats. :)

A good place to start would be www.catinfo.org.  We also have a section here with lots of other links to vets who write about appropriate animal nutrition.

I do look forward to hearing more from you about you and your cats!

Offline Pookie

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Re: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2015, 10:27:39 AM »
Hi Joy,

If you haven't already, I really recommend Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins' book "Your Cat:  Simple Secrets to a Stronger, Longer Life."  She has a chapter in there about kidney disease that you may find very valuable.  Your vet may already be aware of the information, but she may not.  It never hurts, and the book is a great reference tool (it's my "cat Bible").  If you don't want to buy it, it's possible your library may have it.

I also highly recommend the site MC suggested, www.catinfo.org.  Dr. Pierson's site is very informative, and was key to me understanding why my cats had so many digestive issues.  "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure," and I think our pets are the "canaries in a coal mine" in demonstrating how important proper nutrition is.  Their systems aren't as able to recover as easily as ours, and they have more specific dietary needs than we do, so while a cat may seem fine on a certain food now, there's no way of knowing what issues may arise down the road. 

I also eat things I shouldn't.  But that's my choice, and I know what the consequences may be.  My cats didn't have a choice -- they could only eat what I gave them, and the animal digests sprayed on the kibble can make dry food addicting.  Since I didn't feed much canned, and free-fed dry, they only ate dry for the most part.  And they both paid the price for it.  Many of the folks here have learned the hard way just how inappropriate dry food is, so we just want others to learn from our experiences.

I second MC's congratulations for getting through everything you've been through.  You're a tough, brave and strong person!   :)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2015, 03:51:25 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2015, 01:13:12 PM »
 
Quote
they only ate dry for the most part.  And they both paid the price for it.  Many of the folks here have learned the hard way just how inappropriate dry food is, so we just want others to learn from our experiences.

Yes.  My Mazy cat is paying the price for 6 years on a dry diet, the Hills c/d "prescription" diet, a food very much like the RC "ragdoll diet"

I don't think she will ever be completely healed.  I live with that every day. She and I both do.

Offline DeeDee

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Re: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2015, 04:01:57 PM »
This ragdoll breeder says they should get raw:

http://www.edenlearagdollkittens.com/raw-cat-food/
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Offline Pet South

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Re: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2015, 08:46:32 PM »
Thanks for the book tip. On it
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Offline Pookie

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Re: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2015, 10:47:21 PM »
Thanks for the book tip. On it

Correction on the title:  It's "Your Cat:  Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life."  I left out a word and switched a couple of others.  That's what I get for not actually looking at the book when I typed the name.   ::) :-[

Here are some highlights from the chapter on kidney disease:

- "In the cat with insufficient kidney function, high dietary phosphorus intake may promote further decline in that function."  That's why low-protein diets have been recommended.  However, there are phosphorus (phosphate) binders that you can get from your vet.  You can also add cooked egg white to the cat's wet diet.  It's great protein, but doesn't have phosphate, "... so it effectively "dilutes" the phosphorus in the food."

- She mentions that "Recently, scientists studying cats with CRD have also begun to recommend supplemental calcitriol to control renal secondary hyperparathyroidism (see http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/calcitriol/).  Calcitriol is an active form of vitamin D."  This is if the kidneys can no longer activate vitamin D.  She goes into a lot of detail here, but basically, "As active vitamin D levels drop, blood calcium also drops and blood phosphorus levels start to climb."  This can create an inbalance in the blood that, long story short, can lead to bones becoming soft, and bone crystals being "deposited in the soft tissues, including the kidneys themselves."  She also included another link:  http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze2r6qt/calcitriol/calcitriol3/htm).  A vet can prescribe the appropriate low doses to give and can monitor the patient.

-  Another thing she mentions are a class of drugs called ACE inhibitors (www.felinegood.co.uk/treatments/en/ace_inhibitors.shtml), which "have been shown to have remarkable value in stabilizing the CRD patient."  She likes to use benazepril, which is used in humans to lower high blood pressure.  This class of drugs "may also increase blood flow to the kidneys, allowing these organs to better filter toxins from the blood."

-  She mentions calcium channel blockers, which is a different calss of drugs, in case the ACE inhibitor doesn't control the blood pressure enough.  She specifically mentioned amlodipine.

-  If the cat has a poor appetite, she uses drugs like cyproheptadine "for a short time, to stimulate food consumption." 

- She prefers giving cats fluids subcutaneously (under the skin) rather than via IV, because "it is extremely easy to overhydrate a cat with IV fluids."  She states it's very easy to do subcutaneous fluids at home (www.marvistavet.com/html/body_subcutaneous_fluids.html).  She states that "Cats receiving fluid supplementation as part of their CRD treatment protocol should have potassium and B-vitamin supplementation as well" because the "increased fluid flow through the kidneys in these patients can cause excessive loss of potassium and the water-soluble B vitamins from the body."  The vitamins "can be added directly to the patient's fluid solution" or orally.  A couple more links she provides:  www.vetmed.wsu.edu/ClientED/cat_fluids.asp and www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/subques.html.

-  "If your cat has serious anemia, your veterinarian may prescribe erythropoietin to help the bone marrow produce more red cells to carry oxygen throughout your cat's body."

Above all, she advises that these cats NOT be fed dry food.  Instead, they should be fed a wet diet, e.g. canned or raw.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2015, 10:51:31 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Pet South

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Re: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2015, 11:14:35 PM »
Thx
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Offline Lola

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Re: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2015, 04:09:00 PM »
I have an extra Your Cat book, if you would like to read it. 
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Offline Lola

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Re: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2015, 04:10:19 PM »
I mean i can send it to you to keep.  Sorry...I am a little worn out. 
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Offline joy

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Re: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2015, 06:00:19 PM »
Lola----Sydney is on Calcitriol. Our Vet explained that they have had great success with this med.

Offline joy

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Re: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2015, 06:03:15 PM »
Lola---Sydney is on Calcitriol and it is working wonders.

Offline Pet South

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Re: joy - Cat With Stage 2 Kidney Disease
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2015, 08:16:02 PM »
I mean i can send it to you to keep.  Sorry...I am a little worn out.
That would be awesome! We ordered it in the library yesterday, waiting for it to be available.
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