Author Topic: Re: Dry Vs Wet  (Read 19223 times)

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Offline Lola

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« on: December 10, 2011, 06:13:18 PM »
Thing is.... she's still feeding kibble to the dog...  Doh1


I wouldn't mind reading some discussion/info concerning dogs eating kibble in the dog forum area.  Apparently, I've missed the boat in that area.  ??  I feed our dogs kibble and wet...
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Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2011, 01:53:06 PM »
I wouldn't mind reading some discussion/info concerning dogs eating kibble in the dog forum area.  Apparently, I've missed the boat in that area.  ??  I feed our dogs kibble and wet...

I am simply of the opinion that dog kibble is not made any better than cat kibble.  As such, I don't think it's any better for dogs than cat kibble is for cats.

Dogs aren't any less carnivorous than cats, and they are not omnivores.  Dogs are carnivores.  The very small amount of amylase in a dog's system is a survival mechanism.  Wolves have been known to dig up tubers to get themselves through a difficult winter, but is pretty rare and as soon as there is more prey, they will leave the roots alone.  They thrive on meat.  The meat to filler ratio in many dog kibbles is just as bad as it is in cat kibble.  It is, however, a bit better in wet foods.  And of course you know I believe raw is the best option.  ;)

Just my  2cents   doggif
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Translation: "I can has my raw food? -please!"

Offline Amber

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2011, 04:20:12 PM »
While I believe raw meat is best for any carnivore, obligate or opportunistic, I don't think that feeding any wet is better than any dry for dogs, as it seems to be for cats.

Unlike cats, dogs are not desert animals and have a proper thirst drive, so the risk of the running around chronically dehydrated is low, thereby lowering the risk of urinary problems. Where cats absolutely cannot pull nutrients from plant sources, dogs can; they just can't get them as efficiently from plants as from meat. For example, dogs can utilize beta carotene for vitamin A. Cats cannot. If and when I own a dog, he or she will be eating the exact same thing I am feeding Amber as long as I am able to give it to them. But when I am talking to people about what they feed, moisture is the first thing I consider, followed by low carbs. With dog owners, the first thing I mention is the quality of the ingredients, followed by meat content.

Offline Lola

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2011, 04:41:43 PM »
I didn't think dry for dogs was an "issue," (like it is for felines) for the reasons Amber stated.  Also, my dogs have molars that allow them to chew their food!
I feed quality (as quality as a manufactured food can be) wet and dry.  I assumed  :o dogs needed both.  (Not sure why I assumed that.)

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Offline Shadow

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2011, 07:38:41 PM »
Cat or Dog kibble they both are prone to recalls, so many happening again lately.
If I ever get a dog, its getting Raw right off the bat. :-*
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Offline Lola

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 09:48:57 AM »
If I had known about all the BS concerning the pet food industry years ago.... I would have NO pets.
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 10:22:53 AM »
This is perfect timing, because I wanted to ask:  is there a dog version of catinfo.org, that anyone knows of?  Something as comprehensive and possibly run by a knowledgeable vet?  I sent a friend of mine a bunch of information regarding vaccinosis in cats, but she has a dog and I don't know how useful the info was that I sent.  A site like Dr. Pierson's, which covers nutrition, vaccination, etc. would be great.

Thanks!

PS.  If I had known the b.s. concerning vets, and how little they actually know about certain things, I don't think I'd have pets, either.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2011, 10:24:30 AM by Pookie »
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Offline Lola

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 06:10:58 PM »
This is perfect timing, because I wanted to ask:  is there a dog version of catinfo.org, that anyone knows of?  Something as comprehensive and possibly run by a knowledgeable vet?  I sent a friend of mine a bunch of information regarding vaccinosis in cats, but she has a dog and I don't know how useful the info was that I sent.  A site like Dr. Pierson's, which covers nutrition, vaccination, etc. would be great.

Thanks!

PS.  If I had known the b.s. concerning vets, and how little they actually know about certain things, I don't think I'd have pets, either.

I have yet to find one.  If anyone does, I would LOVE to know about it. 
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Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2011, 12:37:43 PM »
*sigh*

Did anyone actually click the link in my post?

The Myths of Raw Feeding is a comprehensive, thorough set of articles written by a zoological biologist as well as a few veterinarians.

Yes, it is heavy reading.
Yes, it is canted to raw feeding.

But here's the thing... even if you are still not sold on raw feeding, you can still glean a LOT of information about the biology and physiology of carnivores.

Lola, huny, a dog's molars are NOT for CHEWING.  They are NOT flat.  They are pointed, and their jaws move only up and down.... their jaws are not made for chewing and grinding.  A dogs jaws and molars are structured for crushing and scissoring.

And folks may look at the site and say, "But it hasn't been updated since 2007".  That's because the information doesn't need to be updated.  Since it is based on biology and physiology, barring some cataclysmic evolutionary event, the information is not going to change.

Please
Please take the time to go through each and every myth on that list. 
Take one a day if you need to... or one a week... whatever it takes.


Now, to the wet vs. dry question. 
My personal opinion is that wet food is better for dogs for many of the same reasons it is better for cats.
I don't understand the logic that says cats need wet, but dry is okay for dogs.  I'm sorry, I just don't.
To my mind, just because dogs will drink water on the side, doesn't mean they need it any less in their meals.
A moisture rich meal increases bio-availability, whereas a dry meal is more difficult to digest and puts strain on all the organs.
Also, dog kibble is not made any better than cat kibble... It's still full of useless fillers, and it's still cooked beyond recognition, and they still have to add in nutrients after the fact.

 2cents
"And that's all I can say about that".

.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 12:50:41 PM by FurMonster Mom »
meow meow meow meow meow meow? -woof!
Translation: "I can has my raw food? -please!"

Offline Lola

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2011, 01:04:30 PM »
FurMonsterMom,
I didn't notice your link.  Creature of habit...blue = link.  I WILL go read it.
Also, thanks for your input!!!!!  

I know I have been lead to believe mannnnnny (WRONG) things for a LOT of years concerning feeding our pets.  There is a lot of myths or out right misinformation/lies to wade through.  

I concentrated on the felines for so long (and not the dogs), because of fairly current feline health issues that were caused by dry kibble.  
The dogs ended up on the back burner...so to speak...because there was no obvious current health issues.  AND...I was still of the thinking...meat main ingredient...no grains or fillers...good to go.  

NEVER feel like you are a broken record.  Repeat yourself over and over and over.  You never know WHO is reading WHAT post.  Also, for some people, it takes the reading of the same thing a bazillion of times for the info to "click."  
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 07:52:53 AM by Lola, Reason: corrected HUGE misinformation »
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Offline Lola

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2011, 07:41:31 AM »
Okay, I got it.  Finally.
The flat molars I THOUGHT I saw in my dogs' mouths...don't exist.   

Furmonster,
You posted a link to the following website, but this particular one narrows down the facts.  (For those of us that are slower at catching on to the facts.)
http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html

No dry for dogs or cats.
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Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2011, 01:35:57 PM »
There are also more excellent pictures here (scroll down).

Apparently, at one point Second Chance Ranch posted an article about all the dangers of raw feeding (it's long since been taken down).  Ms. Kuhen wrote a 5 page rebuttal to it.... yes, 5 pages! oy.

It drives me nuts that veterinarians still perpetuate the myth that dogs are omnivores.  Thing is, you'll usually (though, not always) find these statements on some pet food related site or article.   bangshead

I am grateful that more people are getting on board with the idea that cats (and ferrets!) are obligate carnivores, but I can't help feeling that our carnivorous doggy friends are getting the short shrift sometimes.  The irony to me is, there are a lot of dog owners out there who have been raw feeding for decades.  When I started looking into feeding my cats a raw diet, most of the sites I came across were for dogs.  Pierson's site was the only one (at the time) that was specifically targeted for cats.

I understand that not everyone is going to feed raw.  Lots of folks have their reasons. 
I just don't want one of those reasons to be because of misinformation.

okay... I'll get off my soapbox now.

 :-*
.
meow meow meow meow meow meow? -woof!
Translation: "I can has my raw food? -please!"

Offline Pookie

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2013, 02:47:51 PM »
I'm bumping this thread because last night I ran into someone from work at the specialty pet food store I go to.  She has a beautiful boxer (total sweetheart) and he's having food tolerance issues.  I gave her the card I carry with links to catinfo, etc., and pointed out the link to our forum, saying there are very helpful folks here and lots of good information.  I did ask what she feeds and recommended avoiding kibble.  For price reasons, she can't feed only canned, and she's afraid to feed raw (and I can totally understand both issues).

I did suggest to her maybe feeding dry in the morning and canned in the evening, as they digest at different rates.  Then on my way home, I began second-guessing myself.  I would think that the "dry takes longer to digest than wet food" applies to dogs just like it does in cats, since both are carnivores.

Now, to the wet vs. dry question. 
My personal opinion is that wet food is better for dogs for many of the same reasons it is better for cats.
I don't understand the logic that says cats need wet, but dry is okay for dogs.  I'm sorry, I just don't.
To my mind, just because dogs will drink water on the side, doesn't mean they need it any less in their meals.
A moisture rich meal increases bio-availability, whereas a dry meal is more difficult to digest and puts strain on all the organs.
Also, dog kibble is not made any better than cat kibble... It's still full of useless fillers, and it's still cooked beyond recognition, and they still have to add in nutrients after the fact.

Thanks, FMM.  That's what I've been thinking, and having you say that helps a lot.  I think I keep questioning myself because canines didn't come from the same dry climate that cats did, so I assUme they have a lot more flexibility and then confuse myself in thinking the same "rules" don't apply.  But I guess the bottom line is, regardless of what climate they evolved in, both are carnivores.  While canids may have a little more flexibility when it comes to eating some plants, they are carnivores and the dry vs. wet rules apply to them as much as they do to cats.  At least, that's my take on it.
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Offline Lola

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2013, 04:06:21 PM »
Kibble is Kibble is STILL Kibble!
By Dr Jeannie Thomason


http://thewholedog.org/artkibble.html
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Dry Vs Wet
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2013, 05:11:14 PM »
Thanks, Lola.  I know cost is an issue for this person, so I'm not going to push, though I think I will suggest trying raw chicken gizzards now and then as they are SO inexpensive.  But it's up to her.

Is it safe to ASSuME that wet is more filling for dogs than dry?  It's that way for cats, so my guess is it's the same for dogs.  (Why do I keep second-guessing myself???)  She may be thinking that the cost is an issue, not knowing that she wouldn't have to feed as much, but maybe she does and truly can't afford it.

She is also taking the dog to a holistic vet, and they tend to be more knowledgeable, so hopefully that vet will also be able to help.

Thanks for the link!
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

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