Author Topic: Dr Karen Becker's concerns on neutering/spaying cats and dogs  (Read 6036 times)

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Offline DeeDee

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Dr Karen Becker's concerns on neutering/spaying cats and dogs
« on: October 01, 2013, 03:59:18 PM »
This is why we decided to not neuter Barkly or Vlad--because we started believing the info at about the year-2005 mark:


http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/30/neutering-health-risks.aspx

Quote
Five Years into Private Practice, Many of My Canine Patients Began to Develop Endocrine Imbalances and Related Diseases

About five years after my practice opened, many of my patients started to develop endocrine issues. This was obviously very concerning to me, as these animals were not over-vaccinated. They were all eating biologically appropriate, fresh food diets.

The first light bulb went off in my head when I started researching why up to 90 percent of ferrets die of endocrine imbalance, specifically adrenal disease or Cushing's disease. Mass-bred ferrets that enter the pet trade are desexed at about three weeks of age. The theory behind why most ferrets develop endocrine imbalance is that juvenile desexing creates a sex hormone deficiency, which ultimately taxes the last remaining tissues of the body capable of producing a small amount of sex hormone – the adrenal glands. So I began to wonder… could the same phenomenon be happening with my dog patients?

By 2006, the number of dogs I was diagnosing with hypothyroidism was at an all-time high. Diagnosing low thyroid levels is very easy compared to the complex adrenal testing required to show that a dog has adrenal disease. I started to wonder if hypothyroidism was just a symptom of a deeper hormonal imbalance in many of my patients. Because even after we got those thyroid levels balanced, the dogs still didn’t appear to be vibrantly healthy or entirely well.

I contacted Dr. Jack Oliver, who ran the University of Tennessee’s adrenal lab, and posed my theory to him. I was stunned when he told me that indeed adrenal disease was occurring at epidemic proportions in dogs in the U.S. and was certainly tied to sex hormone imbalance. Now, whether veterinarians were testing and identifying the epidemic was a whole different story.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Lola

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Re: Dr Karen Becker's concerns on neutering/spaying cats and dogs
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2013, 04:19:16 PM »
There are soooooooooo many pet parents that would only add to the over abundance of unwanted pet population... spay and neuter, for MOST, is still the best option.   2cents
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Dr Karen Becker's concerns on neutering/spaying cats and dogs
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2013, 05:09:09 PM »
That's true, but it's still worth knowing that if they don't take responsibility for their pets' actions, things could occur. Maybe if they'd just become responsible pet owners, they'd save themselves a lot of money down the road.

Of course, if they become too expensive, those owners will just give them away to what will most likely be a kill-shelter anyway.

Children and pets--I've become of the opinion that they're two things that people should have to pass a test for before they get. After all, those of us that have used responsible breeders to get specific traits for jobs we want performed have had to pass their "will-I-let-you-have-a-puppy(?)" tests. It was easier to get pregnant and have a child in the cases of Barkly & Vlad.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: Dr Karen Becker's concerns on neutering/spaying cats and dogs
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2013, 01:58:34 AM »
The key phrase that stands out to me is "juvenile desexing". 

If I had known about this 11 years ago, I might have waited a little longer to get Babee spayed.  Perhaps then, she would have had enough hormones running through her body to stay in balance.  As it is now, she is getting a shot every 23 days at $47 bucks a pop ( $705/yr) to keep up the necessary cortisol levels, because her adrenal gland is not producing enough...  Basically Addisson's and Cushing's are both adrenal diseases, just on opposite ends of the spectrum.

This campaign of fixing our animals so early in their lives is not really stopping the irresponsible byb's or puppy mills, because they obviously don't give a rat's ass in the first place.  It is only resulting in sick animals for the responsible owners.  That's just bassakwards in my book.   >:(
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Dr Karen Becker's concerns on neutering/spaying cats and dogs
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2013, 10:02:03 AM »
The key phrase that stands out to me is "juvenile desexing". 

I still believe that it's causing some dogs problems whether it's juvenile or not--especially the cancer standpoint. That recent study report on Goldens had something about "before 6 years" in the report. To me, six years isn't juvenile in a dog at all.

The reports I read in 2005 and 2007 were both citing the same kind of information. Their information was coming from more than one breed though.

http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/spay_neuter_considerations_2013.pdf

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf

Hubs and I absolutely can NOT ignore the fact that the three dogs we had neutered (Because we listened to the vet and weren't more proactive for our dogs' health the way we're being with Barkly & Vlad.) all had cancer.


"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline The Kittens

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Re: Dr Karen Becker's concerns on neutering/spaying cats and dogs
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2013, 03:18:15 PM »
Bunch of different issues going on, with the article, with the posts.  :-*

First, I also believe people should have to pass a mental compancy test, before they are allowed to drive.

And yes, if shelters were more pro active, in screening people, to see if they are even competant, to own and care for an animal, like responsible breeders are. But with the overcrowding, they can't afford to take the time to do that. Maybe a handful, do do that. So its a double edge sword, do you reject half the people, or do you find homes for these pets?

The issue of spaying/neutering, and the, should they or should they not, neuter them early, more affects kitties. With dogs, they are on a leash, and the owner is more responsible, about not letting them run loose, where as, alot of kitties run loose, then breed, then we have unwanted kittens, which over crowd the shelter, so they gotta find homes for them, hence, not being screened as well as a breeder would.

My vet will not spay/neuter, until they are at least 4 months old, she prefers to do it at 5 months, for show kitties, it is required, to spay/neuter by 8 months, unless you are showing a whole male or female, and those kitties came from and/or are owned by very very responsible breeders, they don't just hand them out, like candy. I....could get one if I wanted, my overly pickey reputation, on the circuit, is very very well known.

My vet said like about a zillion things can go wrong, not so much with the neuter, but more with the spay. The "parts" are just too small, and "things" can be missed. There is also the concern, of putting a kitten that young, under anastesia, another zillion things can go wrong.

With people letting their kitties out, and not spaying and neutering them, is way worser, than spaying/neutering them early, which, I think, is the issue.

As far as pets getting cancer and other health issues, is it only the pets that have been s/n that are getting sick, or is it, pets that are whole too?  That one, I would want to know.

Its like saying, if you don't s/n, your pet won't get cancer or any health issues.

As far as the vet, noticing, his patients suddenly getting cancer or other health issues, I would ask, since it would be in about the same ballpark area, what water do you give them, tap water?

There is so much bad stuff in our water now a days.

Mine get purified drinking water, I won't even drink water from the tap.

I was however, mixing warm water from the tap, with their wet, so their food was warm, but giving them purified drinking water for their water bowls. My one friend, pointed that out to me, when I broached the subject, of her giving hers, tap water, for their bowls, and suddenly loosing alot of kitties and doggies over the last few years, and she feeds, good quality food and is as overly pickey as I am.

After I lost Smokey, I said, ya know, ya got a good point, and altho their wet is now given cold, they only get purified drinking water, for their bowls, for their wet food.

Bump doesn't count in all this, his was HCM, so his was genetic.

I believe, a good majority of health issues, are caused by the water we drink, the processed foods we eat, and who the heck knows, what is in the meat we eat, what has been fed to the cows, pigs, chickens.

Just another point of view.  :-* HeadButt cat4 TexasFlag bumpgif 

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Dr Karen Becker's concerns on neutering/spaying cats and dogs
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2013, 03:56:44 PM »
Quote
As far as pets getting cancer and other health issues, is it only the pets that have been s/n that are getting sick, or is it, pets that are whole too?  That one, I would want to know.

Its like saying, if you don't s/n, your pet won't get cancer or any health issues.

I'm not saying they can't get cancer if they're NOT S/N'd, but I am saying that the only 3 we had with cancer were. It gives us pause to think about what we WILL do with B&V.

Reading those reports is what made us start thinking about it all.

We also think that GMO grains in kibble that had all the nutrients cooked out, and other garbage in their foods could have contributed to it, and that being over-vaccinated might have played into it all.

Put all 3 together and we had a recipe for disaster with all 3 of our last dogs.

So, we're not doing any of it anymore. Those were our MAIN concerns and considerations, but other problems that removing their hormones could cause also stopped us. On top of the cancer, the foxhound had severe arthritis; Sharkly also had joint issues where his left-front kneecap would have to be popped back into place; and Dannyboy had moderate arthritis during his 10th & 11th year and SEVERE arthritis the last year. Even the ramp up into the RV was hard for him. It's less steep than the stairs, but it's not exactly a flat grade going up.

There's also the fact that the skeletons of large breeds like mine are weakened and just "off" when dogs haven't been allowed to reach full growth before S/N. Some areas are weakened, some shorter, all cause problems for sporting dogs the way caninesports.com found. That can contribute to that arthritis and other joint diseases later on in life.

Add that to the ligament tearing that occurs with a lot of dogs that do things like agility (no matter what age they're S/N'd), and you're going to have a dog in a lot of pain when they get older.

I just think that people should be more responsible and the health of their dogs should be considered more by vets and other people. I suppose vets don't mind all the problems though since it makes them rich when taking care of sick dogs in pain when they say that S/N can prevent all sorts of health problems from lower-incidence ailments in intact dogs.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Lola

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Re: Dr Karen Becker's concerns on neutering/spaying cats and dogs
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2013, 05:02:30 PM »

Hubs and I absolutely can NOT ignore the fact that the three dogs we had neutered (Because we listened to the vet and weren't more proactive for our dogs' health the way we're being with Barkly & Vlad.) all had cancer.


I'm in the "spay and neuter at 6 months or older... when possible" camp.  I've been known to change my thoughts/opinions from time to time though.  :)
I think there are sooooo many cancer causing possibilities...  "Spay or Neuter" is still my mantra.  BUT... in your shoes... I may not feel this way. 
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Offline Lola

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Re: Dr Karen Becker's concerns on neutering/spaying cats and dogs
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 05:06:30 PM »

This campaign of fixing our animals so early in their lives is not really stopping the irresponsible byb's or puppy mills, because they obviously don't give a rat's ass in the first place.  It is only resulting in sick animals for the responsible owners.  That's just bassakwards in my book.   >:(

It used to bother me that shelters would spay and neuter sooooo young, but.... if they are going to allow the animals to be adopted so young, best if they are fixed.  It would be wonderful if only responsible people adopted...but that just isn't a given. 

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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Dr Karen Becker's concerns on neutering/spaying cats and dogs
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 06:12:54 PM »
Quote
I'm in the "spay and neuter at 6 months or older... when possible" camp.  I've been known to change my thoughts/opinions from time to time though.  :)
I think there are sooooo many cancer causing possibilities...  "Spay or Neuter" is still my mantra.  BUT... in your shoes... I may not feel this way. 

I just think it's irresponsible to not keep up with the latest research and warn people "this could happen if you...." in the cases where it's the person's choice to alter or not when a rescue hasn't been involved and done it themselves.

In fact, when a vet pushes it on people, I think it's bordering on malpractice to have not paid attention to research and report the new findings to the pet parents.

Especially when threatening people with something like testicular cancer that only happens in LESS than 5% of intact male cases--but the cancers of other types, especially lymphomas, are occurring in growing numbers as more and more dogs are altered.

While the cancer part concerns us most, there are many other ill effects that were found on neutering dogs (and explained issue by issue in those papers)--especially early. It's not just the cancer that had us thinking, "Can we prevent this and give our dogs a better quality of life for more years?" The higher incidences of altered dogs having vaccine reactions also concerned us though we've gone the modified route.

"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

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