Author Topic: Questions about titering, bloodwork, other stuff  (Read 3097 times)

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Offline Pookie

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Questions about titering, bloodwork, other stuff
« on: September 13, 2011, 01:10:20 PM »
Pookie had his annual check-up today.  I told the vet about Pookie catching/eating a mouse a couple of months ago, and that I'd been concerned at the time because I don't know if my neighbors put out poison.  He told me it takes days for rodents to die from poison and that if the mouse had ingested the poison within 24 hours that Pookie would be fine.  ?!?!?!  (I may be remembering that wrong, but I think that's what he said).  I told him I'd read that eating a poisoned (live or dead) mouse could kill the cat, and the vet said I'd been reading the wrong literature.

I told him Pookie had been having a lot of hairballs this year, and said since giving him a teaspoon of canned pumpkin it had really helped.  He told me, (get this), that I should be careful about giving too much pumpkin BECAUSE HIGH CARB LOADS CAN LEAD TO DIABETES IN CATS.  I wish I had thought to say to him, "I'd be more concerned about carbs if I was feeding him dry food, like the stuff you're selling out there." 

Since Pookie is 8 years old, we thought it would be a good idea to have a CBC done as a baseline for when he becomes a "senior" kitty in 1-2 years. The vet told me they take the sample from the neck.  He said they mind it less.  I was not comfortable with this so they took the sample from Pookie's back leg. Does your vet typically take blood samples from the neck? I've never heard of this before.

I'd gotten a waiver for the vaccines last year, and asked for one this year, based on Pookie's history of medical problems (GI issues).  Even though switching to grain-free wet has done wonders, I'm at the point where I feel "it ain't broke, don't fix it."  Esp. since I strongly feel over-vaccination is what led to the issues that his sister suffered.  The vet gave me the waiver for this year, but did advise that either next year or the year after that I should vaccinate for rabies.  (My town [knocks wood] does not require cats to be licensed, or to show proof of vaccination).  We went back and forth, and I have a list of vaccines he uses (he doesn't use the Purevax anymore because everyone wanted the "cheap" vaccines) that supposedly don't have adjuvants.

I asked the vet about rabies titering.  He told me there's only 1 place in the US that does this (in Kansas) and it's over $200. To those of you who get the rabies titer, how much do you typically pay? Do you know where the facility is that does it? I find it hard to believe there's only 1 place in the entire country that does this.  But he also said that the titer doesn’t really show immunity . . . (stuff I’ve read before).  He also said he thinks it’s foolish not to get Pookie vaccinated:  what if he gets out (he hides when people come here, including my family, and he never tries to get outside) and someone tries to catch him (good luck with that) and he bites them?  He’d have to be quarantined for 6 months or his head comes off.

Like I said, he gave me the waiver, but I’m very upset.  I want to know which takes precedence:  the law or the labeling on a vaccine that says it’s ONLY TO BE USED IN HEALTHY ANIMALS.  I had sworn, after everything I went through with his sister, that I would never let him be vaccinated again (both had the FVRCPC every year until they were 6), and driving home I was actually considering it.  WHY?   :'( :'(

I’m so upset right now.  The main reason I go to this guy is because he’s never pushed the vaccines, and now I’m wondering if he’ll refuse to give me the waiver.  I don’t know what to do next year.  How many vets do I have to go to?  The nearest holistic vet is an hour away, and I’m not even sure if they would give me a waiver even though they supposedly don’t believe in over-vaccinating.  But I have other issues with that place since that’s where I lost his sister.



2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline Shadow

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Re: Questions about titering, bloodwork, other stuff
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 01:53:27 PM »
I was just going to ask the same thing. Where I live we do not require the rabies shots.  Both my cats had their annual shots for the first few years, but have not had them since.   Both my cats got very sick on those annual shots. SO I decided not to get them anymore since they are indoor cats.  Though now with all the problems Im having Im scared that if they would have to be hospitalized, they would probably catch something at the Vet.  So maybe having these shots every maybe 3 years is a good idea, even if they are indoor or not, as when in an emergency going to the vet can be risky, I mean they cannot be perfect with sanitization.
Pookie is their another holistic vet you can find? the Vet I go to knows my cats are not up to date, but has not said anything as of yet. :-\
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Questions about titering, bloodwork, other stuff
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 02:00:26 PM »
I'm honestly not concerned about Pookie catching anything, because I do think that the vaccines are good for a very long time.  I also think that a good diet does wonders for the immune system.  I just wish I could find a vet that I could have 100% complete faith in.

The holistic vet I took his sister to is a solid hour drive from here, and that's the closest one.  I can look again but I'm in a rural area so I don't think it's financially worthwhile for holistic vets to come here.   :(
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Offline Shadow

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Re: Questions about titering, bloodwork, other stuff
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 02:14:21 PM »
I'm honestly not concerned about Pookie catching anything, because I do think that the vaccines are good for a very long time.  I also think that a good diet does wonders for the immune system.  I just wish I could find a vet that I could have 100% complete faith in.

The holistic vet I took his sister to is a solid hour drive from here, and that's the closest one.  I can look again but I'm in a rural area so I don't think it's financially worthwhile for holistic vets to come here.   :(
I wonder how long they are good for??  I know how you feel. I live in rural area, but its about a half hour drive downtown, to a holistic Vet but for my cats that is too long, too stressfull.  So I opted for the closeset one. They are quite good, but...they still recommend all that prescription food and such. Maybe just try another vet and explain your situation. :-\
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Questions about titering, bloodwork, other stuff
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 02:27:47 PM »
I wonder how long they are good for??  I know how you feel. I live in rural area, but its about a half hour drive downtown, to a holistic Vet but for my cats that is too long, too stressfull.  So I opted for the closeset one. They are quite good, but...they still recommend all that prescription food and such. Maybe just try another vet and explain your situation. :-\

To my knowledge, the rabies vaccine was tested in clinical trials for 1 year and 3 year effectiveness, and is sold that way, but it's the same thing.  Dr. Hofve is part of the Rabies Challenge that is testing the vaccine for 7 year effectiveness.  I have to check but I think it's currently in year 5.  Clinical trials are expensive for the vaccine manufacturers to do, and in all honestly, it's more profitable to sell them as 1- or 3-year vaccines instead of 7 year.  It seems like most holistic vets (Dr. Pitcairn, Hofve, etc.) feel the vaccines are actually good for life after the booster (given at 1 year old, I think).

Does your vet draw blood from the neck or the leg?  While I'm most upset about the whole vaccine conversation, the other things I mentioned bother me too.
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Questions about titering, bloodwork, other stuff
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2011, 02:50:49 PM »
Ok, correction:  the Rabies Challenge is in year 3, and they're testing effectiveness for 5 years and 7 years.  Also, it was Dr. Dodds, not Dr. Hofve who's involved in it.  http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/
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Offline Shadow

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Re: Questions about titering, bloodwork, other stuff
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2011, 03:46:10 PM »
I was wondering about the other vaccines,how long are they good for?
Im not sure where they drew blood from when I first got Wilson, or Shadow?
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Questions about titering, bloodwork, other stuff
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2011, 06:49:03 PM »
According to Dr. Pierson, the panleukopenia (feline distemper, the "P" in FVRCP) is good for life.  Herpes and calici vaccines "lack the ability to induce complete protection.  At best, they will only reduce the severity of some symptoms but will not prevent infection with these viruses and will not protect the recipient from all symptoms of disease."   www.catinfo.org/?link=vaccines

That said, I think they're "good" for 3 years, but I suspect they're actually good for more than that.  The one that concerns me is rabies, because that's the one required.  The others are recommended but not required where I live.
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Offline Lola

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Re: Questions about titering, bloodwork, other stuff
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2011, 09:16:20 PM »
Where I live we do not require the rabies shots.  Both my cats had their annual shots for the first few years, but have not had them since.  

Same with our felines.  They get shots when they first come to live with us...and then no more. There is always the risk of something being brought in on our shoes, or catching something at the vet's office or wherever.  
Like so many things...have to weigh the odds and make a decision.  

I would have them given shots for rabies, if it was the law here.  It isn't.

Cats having rabies isn't much of an issue here.  Kinda surprises me because of all the cats and wildlife running around.  Feline Leukemia is a biggie though.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 09:20:03 PM by Lola »
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Questions about titering, bloodwork, other stuff
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 06:38:09 AM »
My vet takes blood from the neck.  I've never had a problem with it.  I hope you meant a 'superchem' or 'chemistry',  rather than CBC.  A CBC (complete blood count) is a panel that checks things like electrolytes and blood cells, it does not check liver, kidneys, thyroid etc. Thyroid is not always routinely included in a 'superchem', you should always specifically ask for it.

Rabies vaccines are law here and my vet uses the annual PureVax.  Healthy or not, they get the rabies PureVax. I'll take the slight health risk of a day or two of feeling yucky over a 6 month (at my cost) quarantine in some kennel, not to mention the risk of rabies itself, which is alive and well here.  The officials in my area take rabies very seriously, as I have cause to know. I've never had a cat have a bad reaction to any rabies vaccine, including the PureVax which they have been getting for the last 7 years.

As for FVRCP (distemper), they get the 'kitten' shots, the 3 year booster the following year and then that's usually all.  I have a cat with herpes, no other cat has ever caught it from him.  Distemper (panleukopenia) is a terrible disease and often fatal, but my cats are at zero risk.  If I were to move or take in a stray, I would probably vaccinate them again, but since I am not planning on any more cats, that is not an issue.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Questions about titering, bloodwork, other stuff
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2011, 01:34:20 PM »
I talked to my mother last night, and asked her about her dog.  He had bitten someone in the family (I forget who) badly enough that they needed stiches, and he was under "house arrest" for a while but I couldn't remember for how long.  She told me it was 10-15 days.  So I don't know where this guy pulled out "6 months" under quarantine.  I don't believe a dog would get 10-15 days but a cat would get 6 months.

Under normal circumstances, I'm one of those folks who always follows the rules, but because of everything I went through with his sister, who is no longer with me, and getting his health to a better place, for me there's nothing "normal" about this.  I've had too many vets screw up, or give me misinformation (like 6 months quarantine) to trust them completely.  As I told the vet, "it ain't broke, so I don't want to fix it."  It's not like I'll stop taking Pookie for his yearly check-up, I just don't want him to get any more shots.  Because once that stuff is in him, there's no getting it back out.

I'm also curious as to everyone's thoughts on the other things I mentioned in my original post.  Like "be careful with the canned pumpkin -- to many carbs can lead to diabetes."

MC, I've never heard of a "superchem" or "chemistry."  I think it's just the CBC but am not sure.  This is the kind of stuff that bugs me -- HE should be telling me about this!  I'm so glad I have you guys!

Thanks!
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

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