Parenting-Furkids

Dogs => Dog Food And Nutrition => Raw Feeding => Topic started by: Lola on July 20, 2017, 11:38:42 AM

Title: Swai Fish And Egg Chat
Post by: Lola on July 20, 2017, 11:38:42 AM
The pro-raw vet recommended Swai fish for Lacy.  She said Lacy's skin was dry. I've read so much negative info concerning fish, in general... I haven't done anything with her suggestion. 

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: DeeDee on July 20, 2017, 12:34:27 PM
I saw this the other day in FB. It has a chart to show you the least amount of mercury fish/omegas. Of course, every post he makes is to sell one of his products, but the information is still good:

Quote
I must say I never expected a simple task like finding and sourcing a safe, balanced and sustainable omega oil supplement for dogs would shake me up so much. But, as often happens, the simplest tasks prove to be much more difficult than they seem.

The positive side is these challenges lead to important discoveries that ultimately make our dogs healthier and our time together with them longer.

Many dog lovers seem to be unclear about omega oils and I've have seen people make serious mistakes that can lead to toxicity, disease, epilepsy and a shortened lifespan.

Omega oils are also known as essential fatty acids (EFAs) and they're divided into three main groups: Omega-3, 6 and 9.

Find the chart at:  https://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/the-best-omega-oil-for-your-dog-or-puppy
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: Lola on July 20, 2017, 03:12:12 PM
Sooooo, I need to pick up some squid?   pullingouthair
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: DeeDee on July 20, 2017, 03:24:07 PM
Sooooo, I need to pick up some squid?   pullingouthair

I'd go with Sardines. It's low enough there. I don't think we even have squid around here in the stores. It's probably something I'd have to have Publix order for me.
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: DeeDee on July 20, 2017, 04:03:13 PM
Nope. I think I'd skip that fish altogether:

https://draxe.com/swai-fish/

Quote
I’m a huge fan of certain types of wild-caught fish. Certain seafood picks land serve as muscle-building protein foods. Some even provide ample doses of healthy fats like omega-3s. But fish often comes with a hefty price tag, which is why consumers are always looking for more affordable options. Consumers are flocking to Swai fish due to its cheap price tag, but there are major problems with this fish that you need to know about.

Swai fish costs only about $2 per pound, but it’s much costlier when you consider what it could be doing to your health.

What is Swai Fish?

Swai fish is a type of white fish with a mild flavor and flaky texture. It’s a freshwater fish that’s native to Vietnamese rivers and a type of catfish. It’s also called Vietnamese catfish, basa fish and iridescent shark, but it’s neither a basa nor a type of shark.

The abundance of names come from an identity crisis swai fish had in the early 2000s, when it still was sold in the U.S. under the name of “catfish.” In 2003, Congress passed a law stating that only American catfish could be labeled as such, prompting a variety of names to flood the market, though today, the Vietnamese fish industry seems to have settled on swai. You won’t find the fish in in Alabama, Louisiana or Mississippi, though. In these states, where catfish is a big industry, it’s illegal to sell swai.
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Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: Lola on July 20, 2017, 05:24:17 PM
I kinda already knew ... the higher up the food chain... the more mercury.  But I also read something (don't quote me ;) ) about all fish going through China for whatever reasons.  Whatever details I read at the time, it was enough to scare me off of fish of any kind. 

Although I did buy ground Sardines from Hare-Today kinda recently.  So much for my scare of fish...

MC,
Don't you give your cats fish in vitamin form?  If so, why?  And would it do the same "trick" as real fish... as far as Lacy?
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: Lola on July 20, 2017, 05:32:27 PM
I think I will just put some lotion on her .... Silly7


http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/fish-oil-omega-3-dogs-safe/
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: DeeDee on July 20, 2017, 06:27:18 PM
Most people that that I know that feed their dogs raw regularly feed them canned in water sardines. I do occasionally, but I'm not a fan of fish and beards for obvious reasons.
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: Pookie on July 20, 2017, 09:34:14 PM
If I remember correctly, I think this is the one that a holistic vet recommended to me for Pookie:  https://www.nordicnaturals.com/en/General_Public/Products_for_Dogs_&_Cats/469

I used the capsule form and just poked a little hole with a safety pin to squeeze the oil onto his food.
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: Middle Child on July 21, 2017, 05:29:51 AM
I kinda already knew ... the higher up the food chain... the more mercury.  But I also read something (don't quote me ;) ) about all fish going through China for whatever reasons.  Whatever details I read at the time, it was enough to scare me off of fish of any kind. 

Although I did buy ground Sardines from Hare-Today kinda recently.  So much for my scare of fish...

MC,
Don't you give your cats fish in vitamin form?  If so, why?  And would it do the same "trick" as real fish... as far as Lacy?

I have read a number of articles about all fish goes through China before it reaches our stores, even fish caught in the US.

I don't supplement with krill any more. It seemed to make them, all three, itchy. They get the green lipped mussel (GLM) in the EZcomplete, and of course Mazy cat gets her therapeutic dose of GLM daily.

  I would suggest you add eggs to her diet for coat and skin health, and maybe some sardines every week.
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: Lola on July 21, 2017, 10:37:49 AM
DeeDee,  Do you give your dogs anything extra for their coats and skin? 

Thanks for the info Pookie!

MC,
I DO have a memory... you remember the fish and China info too! 

I'm leaning towards staying with the sardines.
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: DeeDee on July 21, 2017, 11:21:05 AM
DeeDee,  Do you give your dogs anything extra for their coats and skin? 



I rotate coconut oil and olive oil daily, but I can only give Vlad a teaspoon a day. Otherwise he gets an upset stomach due to the lack of cortisol that helps digest food. Really don't want to see pancreatitis again either.

Mostly I just rely on eggs every other day. I also give sardines every now and then, but I have to stand there and feed them to Vlad or he gets the beard from hell smell.

I put chia flour, flax meal, and shelled, raw hemp seeds in their cookies too, and often throw some into their food. They seem to really like the stuff. They're all high in omegas. I checked into the hemp flour, but it seems that it's from what comes after the oils have been pressed out, so that's a no.
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: Middle Child on July 21, 2017, 01:32:11 PM
By the way Food Fur Life has a dried egg product available now.  Pure dried egg yolk.  Nothing else.

http://www.foodfurlife.com/blog--news
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: Lola on July 21, 2017, 01:33:31 PM
By the way Food Fur Life has a dried egg product available now.  Pure dried egg yolk.  Nothing else.

http://www.foodfurlife.com/blog--news

I just saw they posted that on Twitter.  I get Twitter updates via email. 
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: Lola on July 21, 2017, 01:34:21 PM
Just curious.... why would that be better then actual eggs?

Also... thanks DeeDee for the info.
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: DeeDee on July 21, 2017, 02:02:54 PM
Just curious.... why would that be better then actual eggs?


Being dried, I'm not sure about that. If you want to reduce the chance of salmonella, just wash the eggs with soap and hot water. It's really the outside of the shell that has the most issues due to contact with poop. Yes, it can also be found inside the egg, but not as much. If you just want to be extra, you can dip them in boiling water for about 15 seconds. This isn't a guarantee that there's no salmonella, but it greatly lessens it.
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: DeeDee on July 21, 2017, 03:05:27 PM
Just curious.... why would that be better then actual eggs?


I looked up the changes in eggs from raw to cooked, and found this:

Quote
Change in Protein Structure

According to Encyclopedia.com, the denaturation of protein means that the structure of protein may change when exposed to heat, acid or alkali, or bases. These external forces change the structure of the egg from a liquid form to a solid form; the denatured proteins will lose their biological action, such as enzyme function, but their nutritional value will remain the same. For example, avidin is a protein in egg whites. If you eat egg whites raw, the avidin binds with biotin and prevents it from being absorbed, but if the egg white is cooked, it denatures avididin and biotin is easily absorbed by your body. The egg will still contain 6 grams of protein after the egg is cooked; only the structure of the protein will change.

From: http://www.livestrong.com/article/286649-what-happens-when-egg-protein-is-cooked/
Title: Re: Swai Fish And Egg Chat
Post by: Middle Child on July 21, 2017, 03:46:03 PM
Just curious.... why would that be better then actual eggs?

Also... thanks DeeDee for the info.

Convenience.  Originally geared toward cats.  Many cats won't eat raw yolk. And many of us have discovered that 1/4 yolk daily, as opposed to one or two yolks a week, is more effective at hairball control/motility management.  So even if the cat will eat raw yolk, giving 1/4 raw yolk a day could be a problem.

  So in the files there are instructions on how to dry egg yolk but it is very labor/time intensive.

Dried is often preferred because, with the moisture removed, it not only lasts longer, cats who might balk at raw or boiled yolk, may be willing to accept the tiny amount of dried needed.

I choose to just give Mazy cat boiled yolk, 1/4 boiled yolk a day, so I boil an egg every 4 days for her.  I won't use the Food Fur Life product for Mazy cat because Mazy has to have organic eggs.  Certified organic.  I might try it for Jennie and Queen Eva though.  They take EYL currently, 1/2 capsule daily, with half an egg yolk each, once a week, on Sunday (they both eat it raw).

I realize we're discussing dogs here, but though the dried yolk product was created with cats in mind, it is for dogs also and of course has other benefits besides hair ball help.

I use Pete & Gerry's eggs, for the cats and I.  Just like after I discovered the difference in organic non GMO fed chicken, I'll never go back.

https://peteandgerrys.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpKWBiJ-b1QIVRZd-Ch2HBAk_EAAYASAAEgIxRfD_BwE
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: Lola on July 21, 2017, 03:50:11 PM
Just a tidbit of info...
TECHNICALLY consumers don't have to worry about poo on eggs .... like in the old days.  Eggs are cleaned before packaged.  Also, if a human (employee at a grocery store, for example) touches an egg... the eggs have to be repackaged and sold as Grade B eggs. 
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: Lola on July 21, 2017, 03:51:32 PM
THANKS for the info, MC!!!!  It doesn't matter if we are talking about dogs or cats... info is info!  :)
Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: DeeDee on July 21, 2017, 04:06:00 PM
Just a tidbit of info...
TECHNICALLY consumers don't have to worry about poo on eggs .... like in the old days.

As long as you get them from the store. I still occasionally find a bit of poop on the ones we have locally. More and more people are buying them straight from small farms that don't sell to stores like around here.

Title: Re: Swai Fish
Post by: Middle Child on July 22, 2017, 09:48:56 AM
Just a tidbit of info...
TECHNICALLY consumers don't have to worry about poo on eggs .... like in the old days.  Eggs are cleaned before packaged.  Also, if a human (employee at a grocery store, for example) touches an egg... the eggs have to be repackaged and sold as Grade B eggs. 

That is interesting about if an egg is touched by an employee!  But how do they monitor if shoppers are touching the eggs?  You know, how people open the carton and touch each egg to see if it's cracked or stuck to the carton, indicating a crack underneath?

By the way, eggs in the US have to be refrigerated because, BECAUSE, they are washed. In other countries the eggs are not washed, and are not refrigerated.  I read about this a while back after reading a discussion in a UK based forum. Here, it's against the law to not wash and refrigerate eggs for commercial production.

There, it's against the law to wash eggs and no on refrigerates them.  funny2

Title: Re: Swai Fish And Egg Chat
Post by: Lola on July 22, 2017, 01:00:03 PM
That is interesting about if an egg is touched by an employee!  But how do they monitor if shoppers are touching the eggs?  You know, how people open the carton and touch each egg to see if it's cracked or stuck to the carton, indicating a crack underneath?

By the way, eggs in the US have to be refrigerated because, BECAUSE, they are washed. In other countries the eggs are not washed, and are not refrigerated.  I read about this a while back after reading a discussion in a UK based forum. Here, it's against the law to not wash and refrigerate eggs for commercial production.

There, it's against the law to wash eggs and no on refrigerates them.  funny2



As far as monitoring... that is why I used the term "technically."  That is the rule, BUT there aren't egg police around to monitor.   Silly7  Assuming employees are honest, it also keeps them from taking the non-broken eggs from different cartons and combining them into one carton... tossing the broken ones.  No mixing of dates, brands, sizes, etc.  It is allowed, but they have to be put into a carton that clearly states Grade B. 

I have read that same info about the UK.  They (or we) do a LOT of things differently.  Not to change the subject, but... ;)  I was in a UK raw feeding group for a while.  Some of the stories I read... blew my mind!  If they stumble across roadkill, they get SO excited... free meat! 

Back to eggs.... I saw the certified organic eggs you mentioned, at the store yesterday.  They are almost 6 bucks a dozen!  I almost choked.  I'll skip a Starbucks next week, and then pick up a dozen.  If nothing else, I am curious about them. 

I have lived VERY close to a chicken farm... twice.  Same owners.  They eventually got forced out of town... more or less.  Their eggs are sold in most of the grocery stores around here.  Their eggs are also the store brand eggs. 
Title: Re: Swai Fish And Egg Chat
Post by: DeeDee on July 22, 2017, 01:44:35 PM

I have lived VERY close to a chicken farm... twice.  Same owners.  They eventually got forced out of town... more or less.  Their eggs are sold in most of the grocery stores around here.  Their eggs are also the store brand eggs. 

These aren't "for commercial sales" farmers that have them around here. Just more like hobby farmers with kids in 4H that sell all their extras. Depending on who it is, I pay $4 to $5 per dozen.
Title: Re: Swai Fish And Egg Chat
Post by: Middle Child on July 22, 2017, 05:04:05 PM
As far as monitoring... that is why I used the term "technically."  That is the rule, BUT there aren't egg police around to monitor.   Silly7  Assuming employees are honest, it also keeps them from taking the non-broken eggs from different cartons and combining them into one carton... tossing the broken ones.  No mixing of dates, brands, sizes, etc.  It is allowed, but they have to be put into a carton that clearly states Grade B. 

I have read that same info about the UK.  They (or we) do a LOT of things differently.  Not to change the subject, but... ;)  I was in a UK raw feeding group for a while.  Some of the stories I read... blew my mind!  If they stumble across roadkill, they get SO excited... free meat! 

Back to eggs.... I saw the certified organic eggs you mentioned, at the store yesterday.  They are almost 6 bucks a dozen!  I almost choked.  I'll skip a Starbucks next week, and then pick up a dozen.  If nothing else, I am curious about them. 

I have lived VERY close to a chicken farm... twice.  Same owners.  They eventually got forced out of town... more or less.  Their eggs are sold in most of the grocery stores around here.  Their eggs are also the store brand eggs. 

I pay $3.99 a doz for the Pete & Jerry's.  Or is it $4.99.  I'll let you know when I do my shopping, which was supposed to have been done today but wasn't. A dozen lasts me about 2 weeks, between the cats and myself. Every twelve cartons I send in the UPCs and get a coupon for a free dozen.

Title: Re: Swai Fish And Egg Chat
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 12, 2017, 03:43:47 AM
As far as monitoring... that is why I used the term "technically."  That is the rule, BUT there aren't egg police around to monitor.   Silly7  Assuming employees are honest, it also keeps them from taking the non-broken eggs from different cartons and combining them into one carton... tossing the broken ones.  No mixing of dates, brands, sizes, etc.  It is allowed, but they have to be put into a carton that clearly states Grade B. 

I have read that same info about the UK.  They (or we) do a LOT of things differently.  Not to change the subject, but... ;)  I was in a UK raw feeding group for a while.  Some of the stories I read... blew my mind!  If they stumble across roadkill, they get SO excited... free meat! 

Back to eggs.... I saw the certified organic eggs you mentioned, at the store yesterday.  They are almost 6 bucks a dozen!  I almost choked.  I'll skip a Starbucks next week, and then pick up a dozen.  If nothing else, I am curious about them. 

I have lived VERY close to a chicken farm... twice.  Same owners.  They eventually got forced out of town... more or less.  Their eggs are sold in most of the grocery stores around here.  Their eggs are also the store brand eggs.

I used to belong to a raw-feeding group years ago, and there are people here in the US who pick up road kill, too.  I would be afraid to do it, I think.  What if the animal was sick when it got hit? 
Title: Re: Swai Fish And Egg Chat
Post by: Middle Child on December 12, 2017, 04:57:26 AM
I used to belong to a raw-feeding group years ago, and there are people here in the US who pick up road kill, too.  I would be afraid to do it, I think.  What if the animal was sick when it got hit? 

I know, I feel the same way!  And there's the ones who search for "free meat" ads. They'll buy a load of meat someone has had in their freezer, not knowing how old the meat is, the source of it, how it might have been stored....I can't imagine.
Title: Re: Swai Fish And Egg Chat
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 12, 2017, 04:17:22 PM
I know, I feel the same way!  And there's the ones who search for "free meat" ads. They'll buy a load of meat someone has had in their freezer, not knowing how old the meat is, the source of it, how it might have been stored....I can't imagine.

I got free meat sometimes, on Freecycle.  Usually it was a hunter who wanted to clear out any leftover meat when the new season started.  I used to go to a processor who let me pick through their scraps, too. 
Title: Re: Swai Fish And Egg Chat
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 11, 2018, 11:22:36 AM
Convenience.  Originally geared toward cats.  Many cats won't eat raw yolk. And many of us have discovered that 1/4 yolk daily, as opposed to one or two yolks a week, is more effective at hairball control/motility management.  So even if the cat will eat raw yolk, giving 1/4 raw yolk a day could be a problem.

  So in the files there are instructions on how to dry egg yolk but it is very labor/time intensive.

Dried is often preferred because, with the moisture removed, it not only lasts longer, cats who might balk at raw or boiled yolk, may be willing to accept the tiny amount of dried needed.

I choose to just give Mazy cat boiled yolk, 1/4 boiled yolk a day, so I boil an egg every 4 days for her.  I won't use the Food Fur Life product for Mazy cat because Mazy has to have organic eggs.  Certified organic.  I might try it for Jennie and Queen Eva though.  They take EYL currently, 1/2 capsule daily, with half an egg yolk each, once a week, on Sunday (they both eat it raw).

I realize we're discussing dogs here, but though the dried yolk product was created with cats in mind, it is for dogs also and of course has other benefits besides hair ball help.

I use Pete & Gerry's eggs, for the cats and I.  Just like after I discovered the difference in organic non GMO fed chicken, I'll never go back.

https://peteandgerrys.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpKWBiJ-b1QIVRZd-Ch2HBAk_EAAYASAAEgIxRfD_BwE

If I want to add egg, how much should I add, assuming they will eat it?  Do I substitute egg yolk for part of the meat, or just add them to the meal, as a supplement?  Asking about both cats and dogs...
Title: Re: Swai Fish And Egg Chat
Post by: Lola on January 11, 2018, 12:11:35 PM
If I want to add egg, how much should I add, assuming they will eat it?  Do I substitute egg yolk for part of the meat, or just add them to the meal, as a supplement?  Asking about both cats and dogs...

I use this (thanks to MC's recommendation):  http://www.foodfurlife.com/store/p9/EZ_Egg_Yolk.html
I just add it to their food, and don't subtract any food.