Author Topic: Truth About Pet Food  (Read 16359 times)

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Offline Shadow

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #45 on: September 18, 2011, 05:30:31 PM »
Do these "cooked" foods have enough Taurine in them? and other nutrients?
A cat needs Taurine everyday.
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2011, 12:30:35 PM »
Do these "cooked" foods have enough Taurine in them? and other nutrients?
A cat needs Taurine everyday.

Question of the day, Shadow.  :-\  People are supposed to take whatever that book says as Gospel, of course.


  Talk about pot calling kettle black:

Diane W took the time to post some extremely well thought out comments, and here is what one of the most loyal sheep flamed her with:

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Dianne,

Can you tell me why it is that raw fooders are so rigid and evangelical? ...

Like similar polemics on the topic, your comments are heavily laden with inflammatory language ....

HUH?!  (Of course my comments will not be approved, calling out the hypocrisy.)

Rigid? Inflamatory language? I read Diane's comments 3 times and fail to see anything remotely resembling what that person is describing.


The only "evangelicals" I see on that site are the sheep who give "cult" a bad name and do more a dis-service by shoving only selective half-truths forward.

 

Offline Lola

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #47 on: January 16, 2012, 12:49:55 PM »
Does anyone subscribe to Susan's Petsumer Report?  I paid for it once...won't be doing that again.  
I'm curious if she is still "confused," concerning felines needing water IN their food.  
Does she still automatically give a lower rating to wet foods?
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The highest rating for a canned pet food is 4 paw points - due to high moisture content of all canned pet foods.
Doh1
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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2012, 01:38:39 PM »
On ones this past summer this was still in the statements:
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Five quality ingredients gives the pet food a five Paw Print rating. Four quality ingredients gives the pet food a four Paw Print rating, and so forth. Four Paw Prints is the highest rating possible for a canned pet food

(Did a search, can't find more recent ones for some reason. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.)

Glanced at the questions prepared for the AAFCO people.   Had posted this on her site before, but if she'd read it, those questions would all be answered as here is the stark reality of it:

http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/784/Patrick06.html


The fact is, there would not be landfills sufficiently colossal in size to PUT all the restaurant, grocery garbage & waste & dead animals & the 4 Ds which is turned into PROFIT thanks to commercial pet foods. As though they're going to admit this?  

Why not share the law paper, or statements by DRs Fox, Hodgkins etc.  to convince more pet owners? (I for one had shared them on there.)    I never could figure out why such a resource was not taken advantage of on a site with "Truth" in the title....  :-\

Offline Auntie Crazy

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #49 on: January 16, 2012, 02:41:10 PM »
It's not that she's "downgrading" the rating, it's that she's only "judging" four ingredients instead of five.... and the food gets one star for every good ingredient. It makes total sense when looked at from that perspective, but is confusing to the general public.

Obviously, Susan has recognized this, but there's a lot going on with her right now (she's actually attending AAFCO's annual January meeting this week) and updating the food comments is low priority.

She will be interviewing several of the AAFCO executives on Wednesday and has several very pointed and important questions for them:

1.  What are your goals this year with AAFCO?

2.  Why are no consumer representatives on the Pet Food Committee?  Various industries are represented, shouldn't pet owners be represented too?

3.  Most of my questions are specific to pet food, however in regards to all animal feeds - why does AAFCO allow waste ingredients into animal food?  Ingredients such as expired grocery food, poultry litter, rendered euthanized animals.  How can any waste like this be considered nutrition?

4.  Can AAFCO provide consumers with improved ingredient definitions?  For the consumer that does not want waste ingredients to be in their pet's food - the way things are now, we have to do extensive detective work to learn about our pet food.  AAFCO can keep existing ingredient definitions, but why can't there be ingredients, as example, a 'chicken' ingredient that will assure the consumer the chicken is USDA inspected and approved chicken meat? 

5.  With regards to the pet food ingredient poultry, the definition is so broad that a pet food containing a 'poultry' ingredient could include bone and skin with virtually no meat.  Does AAFCO have plans to improve this definition?  Health conscious pet owners want to purchase a pet food made with meat, not skin and bone. 

6.  Would AAFCO consider requiring country of origin of ingredient information on pet food/treat labels?

7.  Since the 2007 recall, a growing number of pet food consumers have lost faith/trust in pet food regulatory authorities.  How does it make you feel that consumers don't trust AAFCO and believes AAFCO places the concerns of industry over the health of pets? 

8.  I'm sure you are aware, several years ago, past AAFCO President Hersh Pendell did a video interview and told the reporter that euthanized pets could be in the pet food ingredient meat and bone meal.  Are you aware of any pet foods or pet treats that contain ingredients sourced from euthanized dogs and cats?  If through DNA testing, any pet food or pet treat was discovered to contain dog or cat, what action would State Department of Agriculture representatives take?  If you can't speak for all State Department of Agricultures, what would you do in your state?  According to current AAFCO regulations, are euthanized pets - any euthanized animal - allowed to be the source or part of the source of a pet food ingredient?  Does AAFCO require renderers to follow regulations or procedures to assure no euthanized pet becomes a pet food ingredient?

9.  Considering that pet obesity is at epidemic levels, why does AAFCO use the Modified Atwater system to report calories instead of food industry standard Atwater?  On one dog food, the calorie difference for a 30# dog was 35,000 calories over a year - AAFCO's Modified Atwater resulted in 35,000 less calorie reporting.  Isn't this contributing to pet obesity?
On the same topic, why is protein and fat listed as a minimum on pet food labels?  Again, considering the number of obese pets, shouldn't the fat percentage (at least) be listed as maximum?

10.  Why can't pet food labels provide nutritional information just like human food - using the FDA Nutrition Label?

11.  Could the Guaranteed Analysis be modified to provide protein percent from animal ingredients and protein percent from other ingredients?  Along this line, so many pet owners are concerned that cat foods are allowed to contain such high levels of grain ingredients; cats being obligate carnivores.  Why are so many carbohydrates allowed in cat foods?

12.  What is the AAFCO stance on silent recalls or product pulls (where pet foods or treats are removed from store shelves without notice to consumers)?

13.  Does AAFCO monitor prescription pet foods for therapeutic effect?  In not, who does?

14.  When will AAFCO establish maximum levels for all vitamins and minerals in pet foods?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I'm looking forward to seeing how they answer.

AC
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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2012, 03:13:28 PM »
It's not that she's "downgrading" the rating, it's that she's only "judging" four ingredients instead of five.... and the food gets one star for every good ingredient. It makes total sense when looked at from that perspective, but is confusing to the general public.

But the problem is, she is, AC. She's taking a paw away from canned foods automatically, just because water's there first.
IMO a very misleading dis-service to especially cat owners who aren't aware of the importance of the very thing she puts that automatic strike against.

I'd like to suggest she just "ignore" the water listed first and rate the next five ingredients based on that which she has some knowledge about. People go to a "truth" site for info they will trustingly follow.  These people will choose her 5 Paw dry foods over the best wet ones getting only 4 paws because of her automatic strike "against" it. Especially the people paying for that info.  

These people aren't aware that a carnivore isn't even equipped with the teeth & jaws, etc. for kibble, yet why not deduct a paw for that?  MANY people, including very respected veterinarians have appealed to her.  Nada. 

« Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 03:19:13 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline Auntie Crazy

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2012, 03:57:41 PM »
But the problem is, she is, AC. She's taking a paw away from canned foods automatically, just because water's there first.
IMO a very misleading dis-service to especially cat owners who aren't aware of the importance of the very thing she puts that automatic strike against.

I'd like to suggest she just "ignore" the water listed first and rate the next five ingredients based on that which she has some knowledge about. People go to a "truth" site for info they will trustingly follow.  These people will choose her 5 Paw dry foods over the best wet ones getting only 4 paws because of her automatic strike "against" it. Especially the people paying for that info.  

These people aren't aware that a carnivore isn't even equipped with the teeth & jaws, etc. for kibble, yet why not deduct a paw for that?  MANY people, including very respected veterinarians have appealed to her.  Nada.  

And, again, she's *not* taking away any points - the highest rating those foods CAN get is four paws.

Yes, it's confusing. But it *isn't* the end of the world - and she *is* changing it.

And to be perfectly frank - I'd rather she put her efforts into changing the regulations and getting the industry to actually put together healthy foods than to changing some food recommendation notes. *shrug*

Either way, no one else is doing what she does, and her efforts are to be applauded and supported. If you don't like her recommendations, don't pay for access to them; simple. Better yet - email her and ask her if you can help her in some way... but don't throw the baby out with the bath water - the visibility she's bringing to the industry is invaluable and irreplaceable. And her Pet Food Recall First Alert program is a one of a kind program with the potential to save lives.

Nobody's perfect. But nobody else is stepping up to even match her efforts, never mind exceed them.

AC
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Offline The Kittens

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2012, 04:47:31 PM »
Thee very first thing, horse people will tell you, when you ask their advice, on anything, feed, bedding, training, etc, is that......... what works for one horse, may not, work for another. They are all individuals, just like people.

Its the same for cats and dogs. What works for 9 cats, might not work, for the number 10 cat. There are like about a zillion other things that have to be factored in.  Bump is a purrfect example. We all know wet is better, and why it is better. But, he is that one boy, that will not, at all, eat any wet, period.  Not the good stuff, not the crappy stuff. And I do on occassion, test him, nope, not going to eat it.

So for those pets, ya have to adjust, you have to look at all the information, and figure out, what is best for that  pet.  He won't eat wet, so OK, there are other ways to get the added water into him. The purpose of the wet, is to get the added water into them, but, it is not the end of all, there are other ways, we just have to see, what works best for them.

I tried the crappy foods, for my cats, it didn't work. But for some, it does work.

I know some don't care for Susan, and that is their right, but I feel, she has done alot of good, and she is in their face.  No, no food is perfect, some have more issues than others, but I feel, its alot better, than it was a few years ago. Pet food companies, are actually listening to pet parents, and not going the way of Menu Foods.  No, its still not like we would like it, but its a whole lot better.

I do extensive research, look at all the information, make a decision, based on what I know about my cats. If it works, great, if it doesn't, then I try something else.

 :-* thumbsup1 Bumpurr1 TexasFlag bumpgif   

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #53 on: January 17, 2012, 09:29:09 AM »
Want to explain why I have the opinion that I do. Nobody is knocking her work. 

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And, again, she's *not* taking away any points - the highest rating those foods CAN get is four paws.

And kibble gets five.  That's where I merely disagree.

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Yes, it's confusing. But it *isn't* the end of the world
Could be for that cat that who has blocked yet again and don't receive emergency catharisation in time.  Or the Diabetic…

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- and she *is* changing it.
Good to hear! 

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And to be perfectly frank - I'd rather she put her efforts into changing the regulations and getting the industry to actually put together healthy foods than to changing some food recommendation notes. *shrug*
Nobody's knocking the former.  However don't know about the shrug.
"So what. Mine won't be affected because I already know better, so screw them"?
Not being fair, IMO.  (If misinterpreted, apologies, but that's how it reads.)

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Better yet - email her and ask her if you can help her in some way... but don't throw the baby out with the bath water - the visibility she's bringing to the industry is invaluable and irreplaceable.
As you yourself have learned (earlier in this thread), those trying to add anything "foreign" there are either flamed off the comment boards by people intolerant of ANY other views than what she is specifically writing about at the time, or not approved.

Nobody has to agree , but to get flamed for sharing ideas when contributing as though one is heaping the praises of corn glutens is another thing (reason I no longer actively participate in that particular endeavor.)

Ideas, such as the appeals from those diabetic cat owners and veterinarians back in 2008,  were treated in the VERY same manner in which that AAFCO President (for an example) has been treating people-  and they were all on the SAME SIDE! 

 So yes, I was dismayed to learn that she had dissed at least one Diabetic cat forum's, and veterinarians' appeals as far back as 2008 to adjust those ratings so it wouldn't give the wrong impression to people at a time when they were scrambling just to find foods that wouldn't instantly kill their pets while these people were working tirelessly to help as many as they can, just to get cats regulated…traveling to other cities just to help newly Diagnosed … getting supplies & Insulin to them… helping financially when they themselves had homes filled with rescues…

    We should be helping each OTHER, not trying to appear we're "outdoing" or are "bigger" than each other. Power in numbers.  It's about getting the truths out there, is it not?   Since when are we not on the same team?  I believe egos get in the way - apparent when others' input is shot down just because they merely share supplemental resources and means, ideas, to get the word out & it's isn't strictly conformed to what one specific person happens to be writing about.  Again, nobody has to agree, but to get flamed while getting NO support, let alone tolerance, for the common cause is another story.


 
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And her Pet Food Recall First Alert program is a one of a kind program with the potential to save lives.
Nobody's perfect. But nobody else is stepping up to even match her efforts, never mind exceed them.

Not knocking what she does, but you have no idea....  see those Diabetic cat helpers, for starters.  The specific people who were appealing to her in 2008 are the biggest reason I, for one, have a clue about anything  - and I didn't even have a cat, let alone a diabetic at the time. They were simultaneously spreading the word almost EVERYWHERE I looked for food info while scrambling desperately to find safe ones.

So, yes, I am admittedly defensive of them in particular, and forever grateful.  :)

Offline Auntie Crazy

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2012, 11:56:57 AM »
It's 2012, not 2008. What Susan is doing TODAY, RIGHT NOW, even as I type this post is difficult, draining and desperately needed... and she's out there doing it alone.

I have learned enough wisdom over the years to refuse to let perceived insults dictate behavior, so my pique at the moderation of my comments in reference feeding cooked cat foods will NOT interfere with my support of the awesome work she is doing to provide future cat owners with healthy, non-poisonous foods. Not to mention - TAPF is her site and she has every right to moderate it as she pleases (just as I do mine). Nor is it even in the realm of possibility that a few pages of recommendations that must be bought and paid for before they can possibly be accessed are going to determine the fate of even a single cat when the internet has unlimited and completely free avenues of feline nutrition information.

And if you think I'm dismissive of ailing cats... what a thoroughly laughable suggestion.

You say we should all be working together? Why not take some of this passion and offer Susan some help? Why not zip her an email explaining that you see she's begun to update the canned foods recommendations and you'd like to help her complete this one small task? If everything she does is worth supporting, why not offer to spend a little of your time helping her update the information you find so objectionable?

Don't be surprised/insulted/offended/horrified, however, if she doesn't immediately respond. She is, as I said, currently attending a week-long AAFCO meeting in Nevada.

AC
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Offline Lola

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2012, 12:23:09 PM »
Not sure where to jump in here...or if I should.   :o
I didn't want to recommend her report to someone, IF she was still not giving any wet foods anything over a 4, "due to moisture content." 
I, PERSONALLY, don't want a person to assume a 5 point rating of dry kibble = a better food over a 4 point rating.  Especially, a person that has a cat with urinary issues. 
I also, PERSONALLY, believe the wording "due to moisture content" gives the impression that moisture is a bad thing.
These are just my thoughts...absolutely no one has to agree with me.   :D

Carry on...

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Offline Auntie Crazy

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2012, 12:51:24 PM »
What more do you want? (Red circles are mine.)







AC
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Offline Lola

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2012, 01:00:01 PM »
What more do you want? (Red circles are mine.)


I would have taken your word for it.   ;)  Just trying to turn the mood around.  Anyway, that is exactly what I was asking.  If she had changed or not.  Thank you. 
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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2012, 02:14:13 PM »
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Not to mention - TAPF is her site and she has every right to moderate it as she pleases (just as I do mine)….

It wasn't so much the moderation (and I agree with your points above that as well) as the intolerance to what it is you (and yes me in the past) were trying to share with other pet owners.
I was also flamed in comments for offering supplemental ideas and information, so sure, when I saw raw feeders being flamed with name-calling, I lost double-faith in the collective mentality there in general.  Nothing against her, but that's why I'd rather direct efforts elsewhere.

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And if you think I'm dismissive of ailing cats... what a thoroughly laughable suggestion.
As I said, apologies if I misinterpreted what you typed.

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You say we should all be working together? Why not take some of this passion and offer Susan some help? Why not zip her an email explaining that you see she's begun to update the canned foods recommendations and you'd like to help her complete this one small task? If everything she does is worth supporting, why not offer to spend a little of your time helping her update the information you find so objectionable?

Don't know what you imply by "this passion", reads condescending from my perspective.  Anyway, I won't get into how I spent 2007 (prior to the recalls hitting) & 08  but suffice it to say, I'm not exactly enthusiastic about somebody who had no time for information which would have only reinforced everything she was saying.  So it came from different sources than hers, verifiable and proven nonetheless.   Still no reason to totally dismiss it, JMHO.  

Again, nobody is knocking what she does do. Merely disagreeing with aspects. that's all.  I wish her all the best. I recently posted the Purina consumer complaint link, along with the caster post (2 in different states) on there in case she'd like to share it too. I have nothing against her.

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Don't be surprised/insulted/offended/horrified, however, if she doesn't immediately respond. She is, as I said, currently attending a week-long AAFCO meeting in Nevada.

She's always been great in responding to emails, except for one time.

One thing I never really understood was why not shout from the rooftops about the cats going into remission because people were wising up about the animals' diets as opposed to dismissing those pioneers in the exact same manner the PFI is dismissive?   They had plenty of proof, and veterinarians' influence through every step.  Honestly, I've never understood that reluctance to share info from varied (credible) sources. Not just them, either.  

I needed help once, in an endeavor which absorbed for 2 years…. pressing more ways just to get the word out, inform people.   However because of an alternative route which other people chose to take,  a Major paper abroad investigated everything they submitted, came through, and actually did stories. It took them 2 years but pet owners there didn't have to get on the Internet to buy a clue when that paper ran those investigations.  This was their major paper.  NOBODY here in the US I reached out to would have a part of something like that, at least write and thank-encourage the Authors & editors, and offer reinforcement with their own stories to keep the issue alive, the steamer rolling.   Have been flamed in the comments section for even suggesting such things there, I wasn't exactly enthused to continue participating.
It's their right to flame me, just as I choose not to participate any longer, for that reason.

We have Raw, canned and kibble feeders right here. Not ONCE have I heard anyone referred to as  rigid, evangelical, among the other things posted because somebody's views were not tolerated, thus I don't agree with the climate there.   Just giving my perspective. Please don't take anything personally, as an "argument".  Thank you for the dialogue. It's OK not to agree on everything. It would be a boring world and ZZZZzzzz message forums if we did!  
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 02:17:27 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline Auntie Crazy

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Re: Truth About Pet Food
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2012, 02:48:43 PM »
I would have taken your word for it.   ;)  Just trying to turn the mood around.  Anyway, that is exactly what I was asking.  If she had changed or not.  Thank you.  

Since I *had* stated this a few posts back, it seemed the only thing left to do was prove it.

In any case, consider the mood altered. :-}


CarnivorousCritter - I'm not offended. Frustrated to some extent, but not offended.

Folks hop on their keyboards and become "armchair quarterbacks," willy nilly denigrating the work of others who are actually making real differences for cats all across America. When it happens to people who are dedicating their lives to these efforts, I get frustrated. I'm glad you seem to appreciate all the things Susan does, in addition to her commercial food recommendations!

And I was being totally straightforward when I suggested you offer to help Susan. I'm not her and can't speak for her, but I get all kinds of excited when I get offers of help.

AC
« Last Edit: January 17, 2012, 02:52:51 PM by Auntie Crazy »
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