Author Topic: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets  (Read 1930 times)

Offline Pookie

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Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« on: April 29, 2013, 11:10:21 AM »
I've used these on me, but not on Pookie or his sister so I have no idea how effective they are on animals (they do work on me  :D). That said, the person who owns the vitamin store I go to has used them on her horse with good results, and a co-worker has used Rescue Remedy (made by Bach) on her dog who has anxiety issues, also with good results.  So I'm just putting this information out there for anyone who wants to research it more:

http://www.bachflower.com/rescue-remedy-pets-bach-flower/
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Offline Shadow

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2014, 04:41:15 PM »
I may get some of this stuff. I recently bought some Essences, which are not working too well :(
Yup things are not getting better here unfortunately
Anyone else used the Bach?
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2014, 04:47:27 PM »
I haven't got any experience with any of those things. I found something that worked by getting a full product to be a tester for K10+ Calming formula. It worked so well that I quit trying anything else for bad storms, etc. If it hadn't have worked for us though, I was about ready to try the Rescue Remedy.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2014, 07:32:11 PM »
I have a recent thread on the subject here:

http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?topic=3159.0

(too tired to retype my experiences with it, so far)

What's not getting better? Shadow and Mango not getting along? Feliway may be a better choice for something like that.

Offline Shadow

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2014, 08:59:08 PM »
I have Feliway, it does not seem to work to well. I also bought some essences made by Pacific essences, but after reading its based in alcohol, I don't want to use it any more.
Shadow is stressed out from Mango attacking her. Mango is not like any kitten I have had before, he bites at me, and attacks Shadow :(
Mango is getting bigger, he is about 6.5 mths old now. He can be sweet sometimes, I am just really concerned for my Shadow.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2014, 05:05:24 AM »
Is he attacking in play?  When Queen Eva was a kitten she wanted to play with Tolly Angel all the time.  Tolly loved her and tried to keep up but of course he was 10 and she was a boppity baby and he couldn't.

My solution was to give Queen Eva more interactive play time. She required a ton of play time to keep her out of mischief. Hours a day.

It sounds like things might be a bit quiet for your little boy.  I would add more play sessions.  Mix up the toys.  Get him a stuffed animal that is about his size or slightly larger and teach him to bite and beat up on that, instead of you or Shadow.

When he goes after Shadow, distract him with a Game, so Shadow can get away.  Does she get up on top of the cat tree for peace?

The rescue remedy may help reduce her stress, worth a try anyway, you can get a small bottle, I got mine at amazon, it wasn't too expensive (relatively speaking)

Offline Shadow

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2014, 12:00:46 PM »
No its more than just play now, he can be a bit viscous with Shadow. I play with him a lot, its hard when you are trying to get their food for them and as soon as I turn my back, he is on her. I unfortunately have to work, lol so cant be here 24/7
We have cat trees, 3 of them, but Shadow does not go on them too much, her safe place is the couch.
I also always use toys for him to bite, never my hands. I have had to tell hubby a few times not to use his hands.
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2014, 01:51:43 PM »
Has Mango been neutered yet?
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Offline Shadow

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2014, 12:59:53 AM »
Has Mango been neutered yet?
Yes he has been neutered

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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2014, 05:32:48 AM »
These are my suggestions.  Keep feliway going.

Keep them separated when you are not home to intervene.

Establish an interactive play time routine for them both.  Play with Mango first, (to burn off energy) then make him wait while Shadow gets her turn. Then Mango gets more time. Then Shadow again.

 Shadows sessions may have to be short at first, but eventually Mango will learn to wait his turn. Of course he won't learn to wait right away, it will take him time to get the idea. Just keep gently pushing him away and focus on Shadow (or throw something for him to chase).  She may be too nervous to play at first, but when she sees you are making Mango stay a way she will eventually start to relax more.

This can be done with rapture sessions too, and treat sessions.  The idea is to get on the floor with them both, showing attention to them both, and to teach Mango to take turns, which also is teaching him to listen/defer to you.

Each session (whether play, treat or cuddle) can last as long or as short at your time allows. The important thing is frequency and consistency.  Devote the time to this (and it is very important that your husband get on board with this and proceed in the same way you do) now so the years to come can be relatively peaceful..

Rescue Remedy may help Shadow.

When you see him going for Shadow, intervene by throwing a toy (for him, not at him :)) or dragging a string or any other game he likes.  Don't yell (I'm not saying you do, just part of standard advice) or make sudden loud noises like clapping your hands or chase him away.   

Redirection is better. Negative reinforcement doesn't really work on cats. You want to change the habit to something else, is the idea.

As time goes on, and you see Mango learning, and stopping himself from harassing Shadow, reward him with lots of praise and if he is food motivated a special treat he gets only at those times.

One more thing:  A Game Mango may find interesting, since there are two of you. Each human should have a stack of whatever throw toys Mango likes, then separate yourselves by a hallway or room or however the lay out of your house works.  One human throws the toy for Mango, in the direction of the other human. he chases it down, either all the way to the other human so the toy can be thrown again, or as far as he wants to chase it, then the other human throws a toy back in the other direction.

This can be a wonderful satisfying Game for a young energetic cat.  he's getting the focus of both humans at once, and he's getting to run and chase.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2014, 04:33:50 PM »
Awesome post, MC!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy

I did a very quick look through the one book I have about cats interacting, written by a feline behaviorist, but didn't find anything that seemed to fit your situation, Shadow.  The closest I could find was either Territorial Aggression or Status Aggression, but I don't remember what the "solutions" were.  I'll try to post more on that this weekend.  The book did mention that you might want/need to "re-introduce" them to each other.  I'd start with MC's suggestions first and see how things go.

Good luck!  fingerscrossed grouphug
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Offline Shadow

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2014, 05:58:07 PM »
Thanks MC for your post :) The problem is I do all the things you have listed lol!
I do not however seperate them. I just cant bring myself to do that now. I would feel bad locking Mango in a room while I am at work :(
I still have not had a chance to go out and get the Bach rescue remedy yet. Will do that soon, and I have to get some Vetericyn to see if that helps with Shadow's watery eyes. She is on L-lysine 500mg a day, and that is not helping, and the vet is at a loss too.

 HeadButt
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2014, 07:00:13 PM »
Look up Lactoferrin for feline herpes.

It won't hurt Mango to stay in one room for the hours you are at work.  Nor would it hurt Shadow, if you want to rotate them.  It's for Shadow's benefit after all.  I know how you feel though, I wouldn't want to either, but sometimes we just have to grit our teeth and get on with it.

I am not surprised that you already have everything I suggested in practice, so keep on with it.  You just have to keep on with it.  Consistency and patience will eventually pay off.

I found the Turn Taking Play Times especially beneficial both when Queen Eva was a kitten, and way WAY back, when Mazy cat first came here.  She was terribly rough with Tolly in those early days, Tolly was used to playing with old ladies.  He had to toughen up a lot, but in the mean time we had nightly sessions on the floor where each new cat learned how to take turns. We still have those nightly sessions, but what I mean is, every cat who has come here new has had to learn how to take turns. Come to think of it, going even further back, Tolly had to learn those things too, but he was such a sweet compliant cat, there was never really any problem with him.  Mazy was a major challenge, and Queen Eva took some work, too :)

Jennie's issue was never playing or harassing, she had to learn how to not barge into other cats' dishes.  She was a rescued stray and has never gotten over her food anxiety.  But even so, she learned not to barge into other cats' meals.  It took her not quite a year, I think.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2014, 08:32:05 PM »
So I checked the book again (Cat vs. Cat by Pam Johnson-Bennett, a feline behaviorist), and ruled out Status-Related Aggression because that's if the cat is directing the behavior at a person, not another cat.  But I just re-read your post about Mango also bites at you, so I'm leaning towards it being "Play Aggression."  Th author recommends 2-3 play sessions a day using fishing pole toys, rewarding him when he plays "appropriately."  If that doesn't help (and it sounds like you're already playing with him a lot), she suggests aversion therapy, like a spray bottle/water pistol or can of compressed air, using "the smallest squirt of air or water necessary to disrupt the behavior."  She's not suggesting you spray Mango in the face, but rather his back or side, to startle him and break the pattern.  She emphasizes that he shouldn't see it come from you, but that it seem like an "act of God." 

I don't know if any of this helps, but I just wanted to share what this particular author had to say.

I do wonder, has he been checked for any medical issues? The author mentions "hyperesthia," or "rolling skin disease," which can present in various ways including unprovoked aggression.  I'm not saying that's what's going on with Mango, but just wondering if there's a medical cause?

I agree with MC, though, that you may need to separate them.  If things aren't getting better, you may need to do a re-introduction, with Mango in one room and Shadow having the rest of the house, then getting them used to each other again.  I know it's not ideal, but for both their sakes it may be necessary.  I have a link to this author's website in the Feline Behavior section - here's the link to her site's section on re-introductions:  http://www.catbehaviorassociates.com/?s=reintroduction.  She also does consults and is on Facebook, if you're interested.  grouphug

Edit:  I was just going through my email and found a link to this piece on Catster:  http://www.catster.com/lifestyle/cat-behavior-fight-cats-fighting-tips-how-to-stop-prevent-violence

Quote
  Some cats pick fights with others around meal times. They might be hungry; they may not be fed enough or have long waits between meals. Reduce the crankiness factor by feeding them good quality food while increasing the number of meals they are fed every day.

Maybe there's other info there that would help?  Hang in there!  grouphug grouphug grouphug
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 09:51:03 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Shadow

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Re: Bach Flower Remedies for Pets
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2014, 01:12:02 AM »
Thanks MC and Pookie it is definately playful aggression. He is very healthy, and had a good health checkup. I guess I could feed more, but when I give him smaller meals he cries for more, I don't want him to have too much food or he may get too pudgy.  bonkhead  He is always trying to eat Shadow's food too, so I have to pick him up and play with him in another room while Shadow eats most of her food, as she doesn't eat it all at once, never has.
I don't know I have done all these things, and I'm at a loss :( guess I just have to have more patience.
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