Author Topic: Baytril  (Read 2735 times)

Offline Pookie

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Baytril
« on: October 10, 2014, 01:16:28 PM »
The holistic vet said Pookie would definitely need antibiotics  :'( and suggested Baytril.  She nixed the colloidal silver, saying cats lack an enzyme to handle toxicity from herbs.  I didn't think at the time to say, "It's not an herb, it's a metal."  But at this point, I'm not going to argue.

I see Baytril isn't for dental use, but at this point, I'm thinking it might be the way to go.  It's in a different class, so hopefully he'd be ok on it.  Feel free to add your thoughts/comments/experiences with Baytril here.  The reality is, I can't put off getting his mouth taken care of much longer, so I need to make a decision soon.  I guess I just really want to know if anyone's had a bad experience with it (or their pets, I should say).

Thanks in advance!   :-* :-* HeadButt HeadButt
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Baytril
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2014, 02:23:51 PM »
Dannyboy had been given Baytril once, and he did well with it. Didn't seem to be any side effects at all. But he was a dog. It's a broad spectrum antibiotic though, so it should go ahead and break up the DNA of most bacteria.

I decided to look it up for cats, and there's only one thing that would concern me.

Quote
SPECIAL CLINICAL CONCERNS
Adverse Effects and Toxicity
Although side effects with the older quinolones (nalidixic and oxolinic acids) were relatively common, the newer ones seem to be well tolerated. However, several adverse effects can limit use in selected species. Retinal degeneration may occur acutely in cats, with the risk greatest for enrofloxacin and least for marbofloxacin. The mechanism is not known. Quinolones tend to be neurotoxic, and convulsions can occur at high doses. Vomiting and diarrhea rarely develop with fluoroquinolones. Dermal reactions and photosensitization have been described in humans, but the occurrence seems low. Hemolytic anemia has also been seen. Administering large doses of quinolones for any length of time during pregnancy has resulted in embryonic loss and maternal toxicity. Because high prolonged dosages in growing dogs have produced cartilaginous erosions leading to permanent lameness, excessive use of quinolones should be avoided in immature animals. Quinolone administration in horses has not yet been extensively studied, but there is some indication that damage to the cartilage in weightbearing joints may be seen. http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/pharmacology/antibacterial_agents/quinolones.html

If you go that route, there's a warning about making sure you wash your hands well after handling it.

Quote
Baytril is not for use by humans, in fact it has properties which make it toxic for humans. After handling Baytril be sure to wash your hands thoroughly. Medication should be kept in a secure place away from children and pets. If accidentally consumed by humans, seek immediate emergency medical help. If you get Baytril in your eyes, immediately flush eyes with water for 15 minutes and seek medical help. http://www.critters360.com/index.php/baytril-side-effects-and-uses-for-dogs-3937/

Also, I'm not positive, but I think you cannot use Pepcid when giving this stuff:

Quote
Baytril levels in the body may increase if given with other drugs which are metabolized in the liver. Dosage may need to be adjusted in these cases. Drugs containing certain metals such as calcium, iron, aluminum and magnesium may decrease Baytril’s absorption., requiring larger doses of Baytril. Common drugs Baytril can react with include antacids, sucralfate, theophylline, penicillin, Rimadyl, cephalosporin antibiotics and NSAIDS (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs).
http://www.critters360.com/index.php/baytril-side-effects-and-uses-for-dogs-3937/

Quote
Drug Interactions or Contraindications

Concurrent administration of a quinolone, including enrofloxacin, with cation-containing GI products such as magnesium/aluminum antacids or sucralfate, or GI products containing calcium, iron, or zinc may reduce its absorption. It is suggested to separate dosing from any of these products by 2 hours.
Theophylline blood levels may be increased when used with enrofloxacin.

Probenecid blocks tubular secretion of enrofloxacin and may cause an increase in its blood level and half life.

Synergism can occur when aminoglycosides, cephalosporins, and extended-spectrum penicillins are used with fluorinated quinolones such as enrofloxacin. http://ratguide.com/meds/antimicrobial_agents/enrofloxacin_baytril.php
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Baytril
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2014, 04:46:40 PM »
Good info Dee. I think the Baytril would be fine, though he will have to go off the pepcid while he is on it.

Can you pill Quickly?  Baytril is very very bitter.  You've got to get it in and down in a split second to avoid foaming and gagging.

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Baytril
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2014, 07:28:54 PM »
Can you pill Quickly?  Baytril is very very bitter.  You've got to get it in and down in a split second to avoid foaming and gagging.

I was wondering about that. Dr's Foster & Smith store said something about pills and otic suspension for ears. Nothing about oral drops.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Baytril
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2014, 07:33:53 PM »
No drops.  Baytril comes in tablet form.  It's a little brown pill, supposedly chicken flavored but I never heard of  a cat who thought so. I'm trying to remember the doses Mazy cat and Tolly Angel took. I think it was 1/4 tablet twice a day but I'm not positive. I'll look it up tomorrow.

I find giving pills much easier than liquids, to a cat.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Baytril
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2014, 09:16:27 PM »
Pookie doesn't get pepcid regularly.  I was only giving it to calm his tummy after he couldn't tolerate the clavamox and amoxicillin, because he couldn't stop throwing up.  :(   After 1/2 day, he was back on schedule and didn't need the pepcid.

Can you pill Quickly?  Baytril is very very bitter.  You've got to get it in and down in a split second to avoid foaming and gagging.

I was thinking of using the Pill Pockets.  Not great ingredients, but since it's short-term, it would be worth it.  Until recently, I haven't had to pill him in years.  Getting 1/4 pepcid has gotten easier the last 1-2 times, but I don't know how small the Baytril are.  All I can do is my best, and hope the Pill Pockets do the trick and that he can tolerate the antibiotic.  I don't know what else to do, and he won't let me give him liquid meds.
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Baytril
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2014, 09:28:54 PM »
How about making these--except using creamy PB?

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/278941770643931099/

I decided that if I ever have to give Barkly meds again, I'll try that. Unlike Vlad, I can give Barkly a chunk of meat with a cutout in it to hide the pill, but Barkly will actually eat around the pill. I've never figured out how a herder has such a good nose. The pill pockets probably won't work either with him, but it's worth a shot since he loves peanut butter. I wondered about melting some cheese to go with it instead of PB too.

Anyway, if you did that, you could choose better ingredients for it instead of the ones you buy.

I also saw this recipe for cats:

Quote
"Gracie's Dough"
Moist cat treats - about 25 (I use pounch moist Tuna)
1 Tablespoon rice flour
1 Tablespoon olive oil
Water to moisten - usually about the same as the flour and olive oil.

from: http://www.city-data.com/forum/cats/108131-new-easy-way-pill-cat.html
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Baytril
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2014, 09:54:01 PM »
Thanks, Dee.  I'm not sure Pookie likes peanut butter, or if it's ok to give p.b. to cats.  I may try that in the future, but I'm so mentally fried these days that I'm just not up to attempting that.

Hypothetical question:  if Pookie should need something like pepcid while he's on the Baytril, what else could I use?
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Baytril
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2014, 10:03:16 PM »
I posted a question about alternatives to pepcid (famotidine) in the Cat Centric FB group.  I have posted the replies in Lola's thread on Roxy:  Start at reply # 51


http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?topic=3064.new#new

Offline Pookie

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Re: Baytril
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2014, 10:05:54 PM »
Thanks, MC!  It sounds like he wouldn't be able to take any acid-blockers, etc. while on Baytril, so I'd have to go with slippery elm bark, correct?  I know you use it -- how much (milligrams) do you use and how do you "make" it?  I've never used it and don't have a clue.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Baytril
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2014, 10:14:19 PM »
The only caution with the SEB is to not give it within 2 hours (though I'd aim for 3 hours) of giving the antibiotic, because it could interfere with absorption.

Mazy cat is on a very low amount of SEB, 1/8 teaspoon a day, I give it mixed into her lunch time meal, because that is the longest span she goes without food, a little over 6 hours.

I mix 1/8 tsp into .4 (four tenths) of an ounce of canned food, and add a little water.  I mix it all up, then give her half, wait ten minutes and give her the other half. I was adding two drops of AVC with the first serving but she is currently off the ACV.  I've been meaning to update about that in her own thread, don't want to take this off topic right now.

I use this brand, pure powder.  Some people prefer to buy the capsules and open each one fresh.

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UE25XQ/ref=rcxsubs_mys2_product_title

PS Here is Dr Jean Hofva's info on SEB

http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/slippery-elm/

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