Author Topic: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat  (Read 17663 times)

Offline Middle Child

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #75 on: December 04, 2016, 05:42:41 PM »
I've had a look at the link.  No that's not really what I am looking for but it is very interesting on it's own merits.

The reason I am using skin as the added fat is because of Mazy cat's special requirements.  Her meats are generally pretty lean. The Rad Cat seems to contain a good amount of fat, but skin, specifically Cornish hen skin and chicken skin,  is what I have available, to add more fat to Mazy cat's diet.

I just wish I knew ow to figure out how much to aim for, daily, ultimately.


Offline DeeDee

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #76 on: December 04, 2016, 08:00:28 PM »
This article goes quite into a bit of detail, (I used the find feature and put in "fat" for 11 results throughout the page), and I found where it says how much a cat needs:


http://catcentric.org/nutrition-and-food/raw-feeding/a-frankenprey-and-whole-prey-feeding-guide/

Quote
Rabbit is generally a very lean protein source. Cats require more fat in their diet than we do (20% – 35%), so, while rabbit is great as a part of the diet, it shouldn’t be the sole protein source.


Does that help?
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #77 on: December 04, 2016, 08:31:51 PM »
Yes it is, except that I don't have any way of knowing exactly how much she is already getting. The Rad Cat is 27% (DMB) for the chicken, slightly less for the turkey.  It's the prey model/EZc portions that I am concerned with.

Tracy Dion (founder of) and CatCentric is a wonderful resource though, thanks for pointing me back to CatCentric.  She is actually a member here though hasn't posted in years.

Offline Pookie

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #78 on: December 04, 2016, 10:37:25 PM »
Remember, too, that there is also fat in the bone broth you're giving her.   :)
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #79 on: December 05, 2016, 04:53:33 AM »
Remember, too, that there is also fat in the bone broth you're giving her.   :)

Yes, but not very much.  Those Cornish hens are lean.  I don't skim the fat, but it doesn't get into every serving when I portion it out.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #80 on: December 06, 2016, 06:46:19 PM »
So far I've added 1 gram of fat a day (Cornish hen skin) to Mazy cat's diet. Started Sunday. She didn't want her fourth and final breakfast serving this morning so I didn't push it. She did eat her lunch (only a .25 ounce meal) and I added some SEB to it, in case she was still feeling a bit urpy.

I knew she was due for a poop tonight, and she went, right on schedule. Larger than normal poop, tons and tons and TONS of fur in it.It was softer too, her stools have been a bit firmer than I like since stopping the Vet's-Best. But this was softer INSIDE, where the fur was. Never saw that before. Maybe I should slow down a little more with the fat.

Offline DeeDee

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #81 on: December 06, 2016, 08:40:56 PM »
I know that higher fat means less food. Someone in the food-co-op asked me why I didn't feed the high-fat beef (because too much fat & Vlad don't get along after having pancreatitis), because it cuts cost, and they eat less.

Well fats burn slower than anything else including protein. Here's an explanation of the order of burn:

Quote
Fats

Fats are burned as fuel during endurance exercise. They are tougher to break down, but they contain more energy than proteins and carbohydrates. According to Purdue University, fats don’t begin to break down until physical activity is well underway, usually about 20 minutes or more into a workout. The longer an endurance activity continues, the more the body turns to fat for fuel. So, if you are a marathon runner, you use fats to get across the finish line. But if you are a sprinter, you burn carbs to push ahead of the pack.

More at:  http://www.livestrong.com/article/520143-do-carbs-or-protein-burn-first/

SO, the more fat you feed, the less likely she is to actually WANT to eat. Some animals are pigs, but others regulate amounts on their own. It might not be that she was feeling somewhat yucky, but might be that she was still feeling full.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #82 on: December 07, 2016, 04:51:36 AM »
Thanks Dee.  I don't think that's the case with Mazy cat.  I am not replacing food with fat, I am adding fat.  And I am adding only about 3% at the moment (goal is 6%). Fat increases motility, one, and the leaner meats she is getting for supper/bedtime meals may be why I am having trouble keeping her weight stable.

She didn't finish her breakfast because she had a fur blockage.  (7 days since the last one) If I had insisted, she would have eaten it, and then puked everything up. (as happened a week ago)  Everything except the fur that is, because that was already too far down, lodged in the passage between stomach and intestine..

She was eager for lunch, so I am guessing the thing had started to move by then.  The added SEB in her lunch provided the mucilage to help it move, and after her supper pre-meal she pooped it all out.


Offline DeeDee

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #83 on: December 07, 2016, 09:44:49 AM »
Thanks Dee.  I don't think that's the case with Mazy cat.  I am not replacing food with fat, I am adding fat. 


What I'm saying is that adding fat, no matter whether you're replacing it or just adding it, is going to make her fuller longer because it doesn't burn the same as carbs or protein. If she self-regulates amount of food by recognizing hunger, she'll skip or not eat all of her meals. She's one of the few cases where I'd think it lucky to have a self-regulator. She's less likely to get stuffed and barf.

"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Middle Child

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #84 on: December 07, 2016, 01:15:52 PM »
Thanks Dee. Mazy cat does not self regulate.  She simply eats what is put in front of her.  She never aks for food, even when I am sure she must be hungry.

If she is feeling urpy, most of the time she says no.  If I push the matter, she will eat, then bring it back up, so I am trying to train myself to stop urging her to eat when she says no.

That of course is not the only time she regurgitates.  Other times there is no warning at all.

There is no chance of scarf and barf, she is fed minuscule meals 12-13 times a day. :)

I do appreciate your input.  I understand that fat may create more of a feeling of satiety.  Cats are meant to have a diet high in protein and fat, from meat sources only. There is information now showing that added fat increases transit time, which is Mazy cat's biggest problem, poor motility.

Offline Lola

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #85 on: December 07, 2016, 07:38:15 PM »
Just listening.....
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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #86 on: December 07, 2016, 08:33:20 PM »
Sometimes I get so tired of cleaning up puke I could just cry.  I do cry.  There is no end to it.  Tonight I had to throw away 20 cherished books because they were covered in puke.  I missed it, must have been washing dishes when she brought it all up. The remaining meals were eaten without incident.  She brought up her egg yolk/pre-meal and first supper meal.  All over the carpeted stairs and 20 books. I didn't find it until bed time when I was going down to check the door was locked. So instead of going to bed and relaxing into a peaceful sleep I have spent the last half hour throwing away books, scrubbing carpet and crying. This is my life.

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #87 on: December 07, 2016, 09:47:52 PM »
grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug
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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #88 on: December 08, 2016, 09:12:23 AM »
:-*  :-* :-* GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
« Reply #89 on: December 08, 2016, 04:14:30 PM »
Thanks you guys.  Sometimes I just have to moan.  The worry and stress and anxiety and dread never ever ever goes away. I walk around with it all the time. 

When about four days go by and she doesn't puke, it eases up a tiny tiny bit and I stop cringing with every meal I server her, stop watching every move after she eats, like the day before, it had been 8 days since she last puked.  I had expected it the day before, when she refused breakfast, but she got through the day and then had that huge hair filled poop so I thought we were safe.

Instead I was blindsided by last night, and shift back into high anxiety gear again. Each time, over and over, the roller coaster never stops and I am very very very tired.

So sometimes I just have to moan.

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