Author Topic: Brushing kitty's teeth  (Read 7548 times)

strykingbearmum

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2011, 01:01:09 AM »
As soon as the babies come into the home here, I start them on a regime of furbrushing, nail clipping, toothbrushing and then the dreaded bath.

I get in the tub with them, and file-trim my nails with them.

The worst experience I've had--- a bath with Tigger the cat.  It was his first, I was naked.   Doh1  NEVER AGAIN!

He is now bathed in the sink, while I massage his demented little body from the safety of the counter!

Offline Pookie

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2011, 03:29:13 PM »
I looked at the c.e.t toothpaste but I'm not comfortable with the ingredients.  I was at my local specialty store and they had several pastes and the PetzLife, but I don't like those ingredients, either (grain alcohol, oils -- essential oils are toxic to cats).  Any recommendations?

Meanwhile, I caved and bought a pinkie and a fuzzy.  He gets the pinky tonight.  Assuming he'll eat these things, I may just give him a mouse once or twice a week to help clean his teeth (I'm trying not to think about this so I don't get weirded out).  He has gingivitis, though the vet said he didn't need a cleaning.   :-\
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Offline Lola

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2011, 09:10:10 PM »


Meanwhile, I caved and bought a pinkie and a fuzzy.  He gets the pinky tonight.  Assuming he'll eat these things, I may just give him a mouse once or twice a week to help clean his teeth (I'm trying not to think about this so I don't get weirded out). 

Keep us posted!  Although, I could barf...  you are awesome.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy

Everything you NEED to know about caring for your feline. www.catinfo.org

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2011, 09:23:28 PM »
I, too, am beginning to suffer pangs of doubt over the c.e.t. ingredients.  But any of the products that are effective have bad things in them.  I am still using the c.e.t. on two of my cats, but my senior boy with liver disease and The Kitten are no longer getting it on their teeth.  The Boy had a flare up of his liver disorder after being in remission for over a year. It might not be the sorbitol in the c.e.t. but then again, maybe it is.  The kitten had an issue with diarrhea, and I read on the IBD website that sorbitol can cause these issues.  Her whole digestive/intestinal problem has been pretty much solved now, but when I started her back on the c.e.t. the diarrhea came back.

So I saw mention of this other stuff, http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/teddys_pride_oral_probiotic.html and then there's this stuff, but I am not sure if they are the same thing or not:http://www.oragenics.com/probiotics/consumer-products/evora-pet
These two products use a "special kind" of probitoics but it says the stuff works by the ingredients turning into peroxide in the cat's mouth?  I don't want my cats swallowing peroxide either.

Biotene, http://www.vetrxdirect.com/product/view/biotene-veterinarian-enzymatic-oral, also contains undesirable things, including sorbitol.  (I could not find a manufacturer's website for Biotene, the link is to a Vet-IPPS pet supple store.)

For now, after having a talk with my vet I've decided to get a rubber tipped finger brush and just rub their teeth with that every night, no more pastes of any kind. I asked about gauze, but she recommended the rubber finger tip pet toothbrush instead, saying that while gauze would be good on the teeth, it is too abrasive for the gums.

No more stuff in the mouth that may be toxic to them.


Offline Pookie

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2011, 01:31:32 PM »
Update:  It took some encouraging, but he ATE THE PINKIE!  (I just kept trying not to look at it.  :o)

Tonight, we try the fuzzy.  Cross your paws!
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Offline KatieAndMe

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2011, 02:15:26 PM »
I may wish I hadn't asked but... what is a pinky and a fuzzy? I assume one is a feeder mouse?? I'd like to know more about this and is it okay to give to a house cat that doesn't normally eat raw food? Katie doesn't chew anything, probably because when I got her she had bad gingivitis but now that it's much better I'd like to encourage her to chew or gnaw or whatever you call it. I've been using the c.e.t. on her and so far so good.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2011, 02:49:22 PM »
A pinkie is a baby mouse (so young that there's no fur on it yet).  I tried not to look but it was very tiny, smaller than most of the chicken hearts I've given Pookie as a snack.

A fuzzy is still a baby mouse, but a little bigger and with fuzz on it.  Assuming I can get Pookie to eat it, then next step will be a full-size feeder mouse.

The whole time it was thawing I just kept muttering, "This is cat food . . . this is cat food . . . "   :o :)
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Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2011, 05:39:50 PM »
Pinkies and Fuzzys are also defined by age... a pinkie is 3 days or less. 
We've been doing the occasional pinkie with quite a bit of success. 
Being less developed, pinkies are a little low for nutritive value, but they are a good starter on the road to whole prey.  I'll probably move up to fuzzys next.

On the subject of cleaning, I came across this "dental solution" on  Dr. Basko's Blog:

Quote
III. Dr. B’s Teeth and Gum Cleaning Solution
Mix the following together and keep in a small glass jar, and use to apply to teeth and gums. This mixture works well for gum disease, and softens the plaque over time, while also controlling the risk of bacteria and gum disease. (Do not add this mixture to water bowls for ingestion).

    2 oz Hydrogen peroxide (3%)
    2 oz Aloe Vera juice

If your pet suffers from bad breath, add one of the following to the above mixture:

    Baking soda (one tablespoon)
    Liquid chlorophyll (1 teaspoon)

Application: Apply to teeth and gums, especially the upper molars to control plaque. Use a gauze sponge and soak in the mixed solution, then briskly rub onto stained teeth or plaque. Do this several times a week, and more often if your pet has a lot of plaque build-up. On small dogs and cats, use a Q-tip dipped in the solution, then apply to the gums, teeth, and plaque.

After applying the solution every few days to the gums, teeth, and plaque for 2 -3 weeks, you’ll be able to then scrape the plaque right off the affected teeth, using your fingernails, a soft towel, or even a Q-tip.

I'm giving it a try.... wish me luck!   :D
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2011, 05:59:37 PM »
I guess my concern with the hydrogen peroxide is that's what I used to induce vomiting when Pookie ate some string, so my fear would be that if he ingests some of it, it might make him queasy.  Or is that what the aloe vera juice is for?   :-\

I had tried using baking soda and water but had heard that it can wear away the enamel from the teeth, so I stopped that, too.   I just don't know . . . :-\

Good luck, and thanks for the clarification on pinkies and fuzzies!
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"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2011, 06:25:51 PM »
I guess my concern with the hydrogen peroxide is that's what I used to induce vomiting when Pookie ate some string...

I understand.  We did the same thing when Babee got into some chocolates.

BUT

First, I'm guessing the amount of HP you used was quite a bit more than a dab on a Q-tip or bit of cloth.   ;)
And second, you probably used the HP at full strength; whereas the Aloe juice cuts the concentration in half.

I'm guessing that the Aloe juice is indeed to help with any upset tummy, as well as to provide some healing to sore gums.

.
meow meow meow meow meow meow? -woof!
Translation: "I can has my raw food? -please!"

Offline Pookie

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #25 on: September 18, 2011, 08:32:15 AM »
Thanks, FurMonster Mom.   :-* I must sound so paranoid . . .

Just an update:  Pookie ate the fuzzy!  So there may be full-grown feeder mice in his future . . . if I can bring myself to do it.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #26 on: September 18, 2011, 09:35:53 AM »
Aloe is on every toxic to cats plants list I have ever read.   I would not use that in my cats' mouths.  The probiotic dental care products I listed earlier in this thread apparently turn to hydrogen peroxide in the mouth. But still, it does not sound safe to me.  peroxide is not meant to be ingested.

None of the solutions other than raw or prey feeding sound safe to me. I'm wondering about using chicken gizzards a few times a week (if they will eat them) Anyone have any opinions on that?

I was so happy with the results of the c.e.t. and their teeth, but now that I've got that bug in my head about the sorbitol I just don't want to use it any more.  After all, all these dental products and solutions are relatively new, know one knows what the long term affects may be.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2011, 09:42:25 AM »
By the way, regarding feeding pinkies and fuzzies.  What about the parasites?  I realize these frozen 'treats :)' are bred purposely for feeding, but don't all rodents contain parasites?  I do not like the idea of having to deworm my cats every three months.

I worry about that with all raw feeding, come to think of it, and have never seen the issue addressed.

Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2011, 10:41:20 AM »
Aloe is on every toxic to cats plants list I have ever read.   I would not use that in my cats' mouths.
 
The toxin aloin is in the outer skin of the leaf, it is not in the middle juicy part.  When cats chew on the plant, they are getting the aloin from the outer skin.  Aloin is also toxic to humans, and is always removed from commercially sold juice.

Quote
peroxide is not meant to be ingested.
  Peroxide can be safely ingested in small, diluted quantities.
Quote
None of the solutions other than raw or prey feeding sound safe to me. I'm wondering about using chicken gizzards a few times a week (if they will eat them) Anyone have any opinions on that?
  I do feed bones and gizzards on a fairly regular basis.  But I have a 14 year old gal who is missing some teeth (from before our raw regimen), so she has some difficulty chewing.  I'd like to salvage the teeth that she does have left.  Also, I've noticed some of the other cats favor chewing on one side, so the other side will inadvertently acquire tartar buildup.

By the way, regarding feeding pinkies and fuzzies.  What about the parasites?  I realize these frozen 'treats :)' are bred purposely for feeding, but don't all rodents contain parasites?  I do not like the idea of having to deworm my cats every three months.

I worry about that with all raw feeding, come to think of it, and have never seen the issue addressed.
  • Pinkys are 3-4 days old or less, so they really haven't had a chance to acquire parasites unless they are passed from their mother.  Fuzzys are 5-13 days old, so I'd think the same logic applies.
  • Reputable mouse breeders are usually very careful about the health of their stock.  They have to be, or they'd be outta business in a hurry, reptiles (their primary customers) are just as sensitive to what they ingest as cats are.
  • The question of parasites comes up all the time.  The only thing I can say is, if you're afraid of feeding human grade meats to your cats, then you should be terrified to eat it yourself (rare steak, anyone?)
  • Freezing kills almost all parasites, but does not necessarily kill bacteria; which is why it's important to rinse meats thoroughly and not use ground meat unless you're grinding it yourself and freezing it right away.
meow meow meow meow meow meow? -woof!
Translation: "I can has my raw food? -please!"

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Brushing kitty's teeth
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2011, 12:02:25 PM »
Thanks for your replies FMM. 

Quote
The toxin aloin is in the outer skin of the leaf, it is not in the middle juicy part.  When cats chew on the plant, they are getting the aloin from the outer skin.  Aloin is also toxic to humans, and is always removed from commercially sold juice.

But you have to trust to whoever is processing the aloe, that they are not using the toxic part.

Quote
Peroxide can be safely ingested in small, diluted quantities.

Yes but, supposedly so can all these other things that are added, sorbital, xylitol, alcohol?  And we don't know how these small quantities are being processed through the cats' bodies. Through the liver?   the kidneys?  Or perhaps not processed and eliminated at all, but left there to build up over time until all heck breaks loose? Not to mention the possibility of the peroxide causing stomach upset. Cats can't tell us if their stomach hurts and will hide any symptoms, we all know that.

Quote
I do feed bones and gizzards on a fairly regular basis.  But I have a 14 year old gal who is missing some teeth (from before our raw regimen), so she has some difficulty chewing.  I'd like to salvage the teeth that she does have left.  Also, I've noticed some of the other cats favor chewing on one side, so the other side will inadvertently acquire tartar buildup.


My senior boy has very few teeth as he is prone to resorptive lesions (FORL) which is a terribly painful dental condition, removal of the affected teeth being the only cure. Frankly, I would not be sorry to see them all gone, it would be one less thing for me to worry about with him. (my vet gets upset when I say that) I have an FLUTD girl whose phosphorous and calcium intake has to be controlled, adding bone to her diet could cause all sorts of problems, that's why I wondered about the gizzard, that doesn't have bone, or does it?


   
Quote
Pinkys are 3-4 days old or less, so they really haven't had a chance to acquire parasites unless they are passed from their mother.  Fuzzys are 5-13 days old, so I'd think the same logic applies.
    Reputable mouse breeders are usually very careful about the health of their stock.  They have to be, or they'd be outta business in a hurry, reptiles (their primary customers) are just as sensitive to what they ingest as cats are.
    The question of parasites comes up all the time.  The only thing I can say is, if you're afraid of feeding human grade meats to your cats, then you should be terrified to eat it yourself (rare steak, anyone?)
    Freezing kills almost all parasites, but does not necessarily kill bacteria; which is why it's important to rinse meats thoroughly and not use ground meat unless you're grinding it yourself and freezing it right away.

I don't eat any meat rare, ever.  Chicken or beef, it is  all cooked to death.:)

 With cats, so I understand, bacteria is not that big of an issue due to their short digestive tract (the bacteria is a hazard to the humans, rather, who should be taking extreme sanitary measures not just with the raw food but the litter box clean up).  But I can't get past the parasite issue.

 My senior cat who has a seizure disorder cannot take deworming medicines, he had an extreme reaction last summer when I had to treat everyone due to the possibility of the new kitten passing on some roundworms to the rest of them. At the time the aspca poison control center, and the emergency vet we saw,  said they found a reference to a contraindication between the medicines in the drontal and phenobarbital that could cause such a reaction.  The makers of drontal deny there is any such contraindication, so who knows what happened.  But I cannot risk him needing a dewormer ever again as that was a terrifying experience.

The vet does not think it is the sorbital in the c.e.t. that caused the most recent flare up of his liver illness, nor does she think it is the sorbital/c.e.t. that caused the kitten's diarrhea.   I do think the c.e.t. is related to both cases and will no longer use it for those two cats, and have cut back greatly on how often I am doing the other two, though I can't deny the c.e.t. has done a wonderful job keeping their teeth tartar free and their breath fresh and sweet.But at what future cost?

I am very frustrated about this issue now.  I remember kind of fondly the days that I didn't think about and worry about things like what was in their canned food and whether they needed home dental care, it was a more peaceful time. :)

However I AM Aware now, and there is no turning back to those innocent, more simple, days.

 

'Hare