Parenting-Furkids

Cats => Caring For Your Cat => Topic started by: Middle Child on October 26, 2018, 01:05:36 PM

Title: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 26, 2018, 01:05:36 PM
 Jennie has cancer. Suspected carcinoma mass in the descending colon, enlarged lymph nodes near the mass give possible indication of spread.

Needle biopsy may or may not provide further diagnostics.  Only way to know for sure is to treat aggressively, meaning:  invasive surgery to remove the mass, lymph nodes and entire large bowel.

Or treat palliatively for quality of life.

Vet seemed to think Jennie is in some discomfort and has prescribed gabapentin while I think about how I want to proceed.

Regarding diet, since there was no difference regarding her stool (blood/texture/firmness/frequency) whether feeding raw or canned I should stick with canned to prevent another possible bacterial infection like she had with the campylobacter. Internal medicine vet did seem knowledgeable and accepting of raw diets, generally speaking, and raved about Jennie's coat.

That's all I can say for now.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 27, 2018, 09:22:34 AM
Jennie is taking the gabapentin in her food, so that is one less thing I have to do to her. It isn't making her dopey either. I only hope it's helping her. I only gave her a dose when we got home yesterday and then we both went to bed for a nap. I was exhausted.

This morning as we slept in with her in my arms, she shifted position several times which made me think she definitely is in some discomfort if not pain, so I gave her a gabapentin dose with her breakfast.  Again she ate it in her food.

She is staying out and about, where as usually after breakfast she had been going back to the bedroom so I wonder if that is an indication it's helping. Hard to know since she never showed any signs of pain in the first place.

I am not going to put her through surgery. From what I have read metacam is a better choice than steroids for this type of cancer.  However, I am just so against the use of metacam in cats, with the exception of last resort. 

Well this would be a last resort scenario, since it's basically palliative care now until she begins so suffer, but metacam also requires frequent blood work to monitor the kidneys and I don't want to put her through THAT either. Not that she can't handle it, she can. But it seems pointless to put her through all this crap, since there isn't going to be any other outcome in the end.
Title: Re:Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on October 27, 2018, 09:32:49 AM
OMG, I am SO sorry, MC!  grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug

I wish there was something I could say or do that would change all this, but please know I'm sending LOTS of GoodVibes to you and Jennie.  Which makes me think . . . . I know you have a friend that's done long distance Reiki on Mazy.  Do you think that might help Jennie's discomfort?  Those are serious good vibes.

Did they do a needle biopsy, and if so, when should they have the results?

I'm so glad she's taking the gabapentin in her food and that it's not making her dopey.  From your description of her behavior, it sounds like it is helping.

GoodVibes grouphug GoodVibes grouphug GoodVibes grouphug GoodVibes grouphug GoodVibes

HangInThere
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 27, 2018, 09:46:02 AM
I'm sorry my explanation was not more clear.  A needle biopsy would have to be done under general anesthesia and was not done yesterday. The likelihood that it would reveal anything useful is very slim. Vet felt if I was going to go ahead with aggressive treatment it would be better to simply have the removal surgery rather that put her through two risky procedures.

I just don't believe in putting cats through a lot of stuff. They don't understand and I want Jennie to have a happy life, not miserable and stressful with long car trips, life in pain with stitches and a cone and living in a cage for weeks, shoving pills and syringes down her throat,  not to mention the fecal incontinence and chronic diarrhea she is likely to have with no colon. What kind of life is that for a cat?  If this was lymphoma there would be more options to treat and hope for remission if not cure.  Carcinoma is different and does not respond to chemo so I have been told.  Tolly also had carcinoma. His was far advanced and/or extremely fast growing by the time he showed any symptoms, and began to fill up with fluid.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 27, 2018, 09:53:58 AM
This thread has been split from the original thread (Jennie intolerant to beef) which is here:

http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?topic=5605.new#new
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on October 27, 2018, 01:22:35 PM
All I can say is that our hearts are going out to you - mine and SO's!

You will make the right decision for her.

Hugs!!!!!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 27, 2018, 03:15:53 PM
Thank you ThreeStep (and Pookie too, didn't thank you before) yes I have made the right decision for Jennie.  Now that I see her on the gabapentin, I know that she has been having some discomfort or maybe even pain. So I will keep her on it every 8 hours.

 The next step is to let the internal medicine vet and my vet know of my decision not to pursue surgery. Then she will prescribe prednisolone or metacam (anti-inflammatory medicines) and it comes down to palliative care for her, until her quality of life becomes poor.  You know me I am a strong believer in too soon is better than too late and will not let Jennie suffer.

From what I've read, metacam is more specific to this particular cancer than steroids though I am not sure why. The problem with that is metacam is controversial in cats because it can cause acute kidney failure. A cat on it is supposed to have frequent blood tests to check the kidneys.

I've always said I would never allow a cat of mine to have metacam except in a last resort situation.  Well, this would be the last resort situation, but I don't see a need to put her through a bunch of blood tests, when the result is the same no matter what, she is not going to be with me a whole lot longer.  I will let the vets advise me regarding the anti-inflammatory choice, but if they say metacam, and then insist on blood work, I will request the steroid instead. If they say metacam and are willing to waive the constant blood tests, then I will go along with it.  Steroids have side effects too, but they aren't as immediate as the kidney failure with metacam can be.

We're having a cozy afternoon all of us, on a cold pouring rain day.  I got out and ran a bunch of errands this morning, including picking up a frozen pizza and a bag of crunchy Cheetos for myself.  Comfort food that I only indulge in about once a year.  Unfortunately I over cooked the frozen pizza so it's not as satisfying as it could be, and I find I am not enjoying the crunchy Cheetos as much as I expected.

Thing is what I REALLY wanted was lots and lots of ice cream. But I need to stay away from sugar for the moment so I went with salty and crunchy instead. I even had to forgo my coke I like to have with the pizza/cheetos day.   funny2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on October 27, 2018, 06:51:26 PM
You are not alone!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on October 27, 2018, 07:23:05 PM
Thank you for the clarification!  Please forgive me asking, and you don't have to answer:  did they give you any idea of how long she may have (approximately) if she doesn't have surgery/treatment?

I may have missed it in the other thread, but I assume they found the mass via an ultrasound?

grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug

LOVE the pic!  They look soooo comfy!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 27, 2018, 07:55:39 PM
Thank you for the clarification!  Please forgive me asking, and you don't have to answer:  did they give you any idea of how long she may have (approximately) if she doesn't have surgery/treatment?

I didn't ask.  Hug1

Quote
I may have missed it in the other thread, but I assume they found the mass via an ultrasound?

grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug

Yes, the mass was found on ultrasound. I didn't think to say it specifically in my original post. I expect you all to read my mind and understand me, don't you know.  :-[  funny2

Quote
LOVE the pic!  They look soooo comfy!

Thanks. We've been like this all afternoon and evening with a few variations.



Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 27, 2018, 09:56:11 PM
Now that Jennie is on the gabapentin I can see the difference and signs of pain I wasn't seeing before. The medicine only seems to last about 5 1/2 hours.  The instructions are not very clear, it states give .3 (point 3) ml up to every 8 hours.  What does that mean "up to" 8 hours? Can I give it more often?  No one to ask until Monday and I cannot find anything useful searching. I am useless at searching I have found almost nothing regarding any of my questions on line, all will have to wait until Monday. Just struggling a bit with the feelings of..my heart hurting, knowing no matter how closely I was watching her I still didn't know she was in pain.  That hurts my heart.

I THINK it will have a cumulative affect, but I am not sure.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on October 28, 2018, 07:31:19 AM
Do you have an emergency vet/clinic in your area you can call? Your vet may have such a contact on the web site or answering machine. Or call one of the chain pharmacies such as WalMart/CVS/.... and ask for the pharmacist on duty. Pharmacist not pharm tech!
Personally I would go with five hours as you say at five 1/2 the effect wears off. Your vet does not know her as well as you do.
How are you and the furries doing this morning?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 28, 2018, 08:30:57 AM
Do you have an emergency vet/clinic in your area you can call? Your vet may have such a contact on the web site or answering machine. Or call one of the chain pharmacies such as WalMart/CVS/.... and ask for the pharmacist on duty. Pharmacist not pharm tech!
Personally I would go with five hours as you say at five 1/2 the effect wears off. Your vet does not know her as well as you do.
How are you and the furries doing this morning?

Well you've reminded me that the specialist center I took her to is also an ER and open 24 hours a day.  I'll give them a call today. Thank you!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 28, 2018, 08:36:57 AM
 Queen Eva is turning bully to Jennie. I've noticed it over the past week or two, and I think it's one of the reasons I wasn't overly surprised at the diagnosis.  Cats know when another cat is seriously ill.  Now I'm really taking notice and I've had a stern talk with her this morning. I know she will need a lot of reminders, but she listened this morning.

She's developed a habit of blocking Jennie at the stairway.  She sits there at the top either stopping Jennie from coming up, or going down, depending on which way Jennie is going. This is not actually a new habit, she's always done this,  but Jennie's reaction has changed. In the old days Jennie would just whack her one and swear at her and go on her way. But Jennie is ill now and feels vulnerable and instead crouches and growls and won't pass.

Then, the other day, for the first time I saw Queen Eva try to roll Jennie.  I was very upset about that and told her to never do it again and why.  I had to teach her not to do it to Mazy cat when Mazy's arthritis started and she learned, so now she needs to learn it for Jennie too.  I haven't seen her try it again, so I think she listened. But I will continue the lessons.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on October 28, 2018, 12:26:19 PM
They know and react accordingly.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on October 28, 2018, 09:53:43 PM
Were you able to reach the ER vet and if so, what did they say about the medication?

Nothing to add about the rest, but I'm sure Queen Eva will "get the message" at some point, if she hasn't already.  Listening and sending (((((HUGS)))))
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 29, 2018, 05:34:20 AM
I never did call, because she started doing much better with it yesterday.  I mean, it seemed to be lasting for the duration.  She already comes at the 8 hour mark for her next dose though.

Today I'll let the vets know my decision against surgery so I guess she will be started on the piroxicam. I thought she would go on prednisolone, but apparently the piroxicam is more effective, along with the gabapentin, for controlling pain and inflammation with this type of cancer. I am not very happy about using this class of drug on Jennie, I'm adamantly against it's casual use in cats, I've always said I never would except as a Last Resort, but well here we are at the Last Resort.

One of my problems with it is the vet's stated need for frequent blood work. I understand the need for this, generally speaking, but I am not sure it should be necessary with Jennie's situation. If she's going to be on it, let her be on it. The whole point, in my opinion, is to let her live out her life in peace and as pain free as possible. I don't want to be dragging her to the vet every 2 weeks for blood work. And I worry it will cause stomach pain and decrease her appetite. But of course won't know until I try it.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on October 29, 2018, 06:34:24 AM
Please discuss dosage, effects and side effects in detail with your vet as well as need for blood work and suggested intervals. Can you discuss it with a second vet?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on October 29, 2018, 09:18:14 AM
I am not very happy about using this class of drug on Jennie, I'm adamantly against it's casual use in cats, I've always said I never would except as a Last Resort, but well here we are at the Last Resort.

We do what we have to do, and you'll do what's best for her.   Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on October 29, 2018, 05:03:00 PM
Jennie has cancer. Suspected carcinoma mass in the descending colon, enlarged lymph nodes near the mass give possible indication of spread.

Needle biopsy may or may not provide further diagnostics.  Only way to know for sure is to treat aggressively, meaning:  invasive surgery to remove the mass, lymph nodes and entire large bowel.

Or treat palliatively for quality of life.

Vet seemed to think Jennie is in some discomfort and has prescribed gabapentin while I think about how I want to proceed.

Regarding diet, since there was no difference regarding her stool (blood/texture/firmness/frequency) whether feeding raw or canned I should stick with canned to prevent another possible bacterial infection like she had with the campylobacter. Internal medicine vet did seem knowledgeable and accepting of raw diets, generally speaking, and raved about Jennie's coat.

That's all I can say for now.


 :'(
I am so so SO very sorry!   HeadButt

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 29, 2018, 05:27:26 PM
Thank you Lola.  Can you please move this thread to the cat health section.  I split it off from the original thread but do not have the capability of moving it to another section. It's still in raw feeding
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on October 29, 2018, 07:07:03 PM
I didn't move it earlier, because I wasn't sure what you meant by "cat health" section.  Then I forgot to ask you about it... kinda over-whelmed with sadness for Jennie.  My heart just breaks for all of you.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 29, 2018, 07:21:41 PM
Don't we have a section for cat health? Sorry! Hold on let me see

I guess I mean general cat care. It certainly doesn't belong under raw feeding.   ;)

I appreciate everyone's sympathy but I can't be sad right now.  I have to just focus on taking care of Jennie and making sure she's happy.  I also have to take care of the other two, they are feeling neglected especially Queen Eva. I've been through this before. I mean, chronic illness. Unfortunately I am older and tireder now so it is more difficult to manage.  Sad has to wait until it's over.  I don't want sad in the house, Jennie and the other two need happy and cheerful.

Which considering how stressed I am over other stuff, isn't easy!  funny2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 30, 2018, 05:44:18 AM
Sorry. I suppose I sound ungrateful.  I'm not. It's just that everyone keeps focusing on "how long". The vets, people at work...it's like I am the only one who is thinking about Jennie, instead of me. This isn't about me and how long I can keep her with me. It's only about how well Jennie feels.

I learned this lesson from Ootay. I worked so hard to keep Ootay alive.  To keep her feeling well too of course, but I was desperate to keep her going, for Tolly.  Because of how he grieved and pined when Bibbs died I was terrified to lose Ootay.  It wasn't until years later that I started looking back and wondering if I dd the right thing by her.  And oncee I started thinking about it I swore I would never do that again.

Then Tolly. 19 days from diagnosis to Angel.  He was okay until the last couple of days when the fluid became so much he coudln't really move any more and he stopped eating.  Even the day before he was still taking an interest. He had only completely stopped eating for one day, the Sunday after Thanksgiving, and the last thing to "try" was to drain the fluid. Draining the fluid, as expected, sent his kidneys into acute failure and he had a miserable night, before I could let him go the next morning.

I just can't stand being the cause of any suffering with my cats.  I just can't stand to think of them suffering. I will do all I can to keep Jennie feeling well, but I am not thinking about "how long". I just can't think that way.

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on October 30, 2018, 08:37:42 AM
No, you do not sound ungrateful. the questions are natural reactions. Being a caretaker is a responsibility. Being a caretaker in your current situation is a very big responsibility and folks here want you to know that you are not alone. You can handle things and have done so but it does not hurt to know that.

Yes, it is not the time to be sad but to enjoy the day while you keep her comfortable and include the others. Nose scratches fur the furries and a hug for you!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 30, 2018, 04:22:14 PM
Thank you {{Threestep}}}.  You're right it is natural for people to ask "How long" but..it hurts me somehow to be asked that. I don't suppose my reaction is normal, since it's the first question everyone asks.  I know it's not someone trying to hurt me, it's all on me, my reaction. I'm glad I have this safe place to say that though, most people wouldn't understand, but I feel safe with you ladies.

Just ordered Jennie's prescriptions.  Because they both have to be specially compounded, they are not cheap. They should be here in 3 days, hopefully just in time for me to give her her first piroxicam when I can be around to watch her.

She looks very uncomfortable this afternoon. She had her pain med in her food and ate it all so I don't know.....appetite is still okay. No more song and dance, (thankfully I do have some video of that on this computer somewhere) but at least she eats.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on October 30, 2018, 05:06:38 PM
grouphug grouphug grouphug
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 30, 2018, 06:07:06 PM
Queen Eva has been listening to me and is starting to control her own actions around Jennie better.  At least while I am here anyway.  This morning as Jennie started down the stairs I saw Queen Eva get ready to bolt over there too.  Suddenly she stopped and looked at me then took herself over to the other side of the room instead.  I praised her and thanked her.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on October 30, 2018, 06:10:19 PM
Check with local pharmacies, the smaller the better, about compounding. Prices can vary greatly.

How about "I appreciate you asking but at this time everything is still wide open." A polite answer and out not encouraging responses.

You can always vent. Please do not burn up my IPad!

Good news today - she is eating and not refusing her meds.

How are you doing? Dinner?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on October 30, 2018, 10:17:56 PM
Queen Eva has been listening to me and is starting to control her own actions around Jennie better.  At least while I am here anyway.  This morning as Jennie started down the stairs I saw Queen Eva get ready to bolt over there too.  Suddenly she stopped and looked at me then took herself over to the other side of the room instead.  I praised her and thanked her.

Headbonks to Queen Eva!   thumbsup1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 31, 2018, 06:16:33 AM
Except later last night I had to repeatedly chase her away.  Jennie was down there doing her thing and Queen Eva was determined to set up a roadblock either on the stairs or at the top of the stairs.

I had to keep chasing her away, telling her each time WHY.  Queen Eva wasn't interested in my whys. When Jennie was at the top of the stairs (makes my heart heart to see how she cautiously peeks around coming up now, because of the bully) Queen Eva had herself set up in her tunnel for the ambush.  Before she could charge I poked my foot at the tunnel which caused it to move to another direction effective blocking the pounce.

Jennie's method of play has always been the ambush so Queen Eva probably learned if from Jennie in the first place.  But this isn't play, this is clearly a reaction to Jennie's illness.  Who knew my baby girl would turn out to be a bully. She was only a year and a half old when Tolly was sick but she was his little devoted nursemaid for that short period. Other than that time she's never shown any nurturing qualities to anyone.

I mean she's a loving cat to me, but she's not a Nurse Cat by any stretch.

Sigh.....
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 31, 2018, 06:29:36 AM
Jennie wouldn't come for her second breakfast just now so I fed her on the bed where she is.  Queen Eva wanted to get involved so I shut and hooked the screen door which has given me an idea for protecting Jennie.

 I won't do it yet, but if I find signs that Queen Eva has blocked Jennie completely from getting to the litter box when I am not here, I will put one in the bedroom and close the screen door and let Jennie live in there during the hours I am not home.

Look at her trying to find a way in.  It blurred so I missed it but she was eyeing the top of the screen door trying to figure out if she could climb it. When I first peeked over she was right in front of it but moved back when I looked at her.

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 31, 2018, 06:39:20 AM
Probably wondering if she can still do this, and then get up over the door frame, like this

  funny2 funny2 funny2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on October 31, 2018, 08:20:17 AM
I like the screen door idea!  Will it make Jennie feel . . . I don't know, ostracized to be separated from the rest of the apartment?

I wonder if reminding Queen Eva about Tolly and asking her to be as nice to Jennie as she was to Tolly would make a difference.  It doesn't sound like it, but it's just something that came to mind.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on October 31, 2018, 11:49:09 AM
I am a stranger to you, your pride and facilities. Just brainstorming.

The pride knows and reacts accordingly? Previous relationships do not apply.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on October 31, 2018, 01:00:33 PM
Are there two doors in that room?  One door has an actual door and the other is a screen door? 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on October 31, 2018, 04:58:00 PM
I like the screen door idea!  Will it make Jennie feel . . . I don't know, ostracized to be separated from the rest of the apartment?

I wonder if reminding Queen Eva about Tolly and asking her to be as nice to Jennie as she was to Tolly would make a difference.  It doesn't sound like it, but it's just something that came to mind.

Thanks Pookie.  I don't know if she will be bothered by it or not. I won't do it unless I start coming home and finding poop around the house indicating Queen Eva did not allow her to get to the litter box, or other signs of altercation.

Yes I have been reminding Queen Eva about how she now behaves with Mazy cat now (no longer rolling her) I don't know if she will remember Tolly, she was only a baby then, but I wil mention it to her.

I am a stranger to you, your pride and facilities. Just brainstorming.

The pride knows and reacts accordingly? Previous relationships do not apply.

I am bit slow.   :-[ can you explain what you mean here?  HeadButt

Are there two doors in that room?  One door has an actual door and the other is a screen door? 

The bedroom door is there, yes.  I installed the screen door on the other side of the door jamb when Jennie first came here. She had to be quarantined for two weeks so she lived behind the screen in the bedroom and the other 3 cats (Ootay, Tolly, Mazy cat) and I lived in the rest of the apartment sleeping on the floor.

It was also used to keep Queen Eva safe when she first came.

 Either door can be closed, though I never close the actual bedroom door.  I kept the screen door because it is incredibly useful to have and when I have my own house I intend to always have a room with a screen door for contain cats. It's nice for them, when they have to be contained for safety,  to be able to see and hear what is going on if they want to, or hide if that's better for them.

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 01, 2018, 06:13:32 AM
Oh dear, poor Queen Eva! She's actually been doing much better.  But this morning I thought Jennie was still downstairs and Queen Eva kept running to the stairs and I kept stopping her. Finally, when Jennie didn't come up I went down and discovered she'd already come up. Poor Queen Eva just wanted to go down and poop!  funny2

I know our routine will develop.  Jennie is no longer taking the gabapentin in her food, I have to decide which way will be easier on her to give it to her. I can shoot it down her throat with the syringe which is quick (and shocking to her but she will get used to it) or I can put it in a tiny amount of food (0.25 oz) and swipe the blobs of food into her mouth, it takes 5 swipes.

Right now with the gabapentin solution I don't worry too much about aspiration with the syringe method but the new medicine is a suspension (not a solution) compounded with an oil base and would be more risk if she should aspirate.

Maybe she'll take the new version in her food.  fingerscrossed

I'll be glad when the piroxicam gets here.  The gabapentin does help with pain, but she needs an anti inflammatory desperately now. I'm thinking it will help her with these frequent trips to the litter box, straining to pass bits (usually just blood or tiny bits of poop and blood) She has a normal sized BM in the early mornings, then passes those bits 4-5 times during the day.

Still eating, still asking for her Game every day (being patted with her Flyswatter on the bed) but not active otherwise.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 01, 2018, 06:27:39 AM
You've probably already thought of this, but is there any room upstairs for another box so that Jennie doesn't have to go down and has one closer?  Just wondering.

Poor Queen Eva!   shadow1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 01, 2018, 06:58:34 AM
I like the idea of the additional box. We had one in our bathroom for ShadowCat for a while.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 01, 2018, 06:43:09 PM
Thanks all, good idea. I don't think it's time yet for a litter box for Jennie up here, unless of course I find I have to keep her shut in the bedroom for her own protection.  Queen Eva is doing very well though, this morning when Jennie had her second breakfast in bed (she ate her first in the kitchen) Queen Eva sat across the room on the shelf and watched but stayed still, which is why I let her stay there.

I think it's important for Jennie to move around, and she shows no trouble taking the stairs down or up.  She needs some exercise.

Regarding Queen Eva the bully, I have to take some responsibility here, I've been in such a fog, Queen Eva has not been getting the amount of interactive play she is used to.  I've remedied that now, and I also make a point of playing with her after I've paid attention to Jennie..

You know I've been through something very similar with Ootay and Mazy cat.  When Ootay started needing a lot of special care, her fluids, and meals so many times a day, and medications 8 times a day, Mazy cat started bullying her.  I realized quickly that Mazy cat was feeling jealous and began immediately giving Mazy cat special one on one time after doing anything for Ootay.  This helped a lot.

 I did have to put a litter box in the bathroom for Ootay, for two reasons.  It was time, for one, her arthritis was really troubling her but also I discovered Mazy cat blocking her from getting down to the boxes.  Same as Queen Eva has been doing. Back in those days Mazy was not as open to suggestion as Queen Eva seems to be now (Mazy cat was only 3 and we were barely bonded yet, she was still quite unsocialized) and the day I came home to find poor Ootay had had to poop on the rug in the bedroom I set up the new box (I already had it ready)

The funny thing was Ootay knew immediately that box was just for her and began using it exclusively. Almost, sometimes she did like to go downstairs but not often.  But the really funny thing was Mazy cat, who was the dedicated Littler Box Police, had a FIT about that litter box in the bathroom.  She HATED it in there and kept trying to get rid of it. 

She would get in it and dig all the litter out.  Once I even saw her lying on the floor next to it and pulling the litter out with her paws.  I think I have some pictures of her fussing at Ootay's box.  It was a clear large tub with high sides (so Ootay had something to lean against when pooping) with a hole cut flat to the side so she could walk in.  After a while when I noticed her feet getting a bit slippy on the litter I put a layer of paper towels under the litter so her feet had a better grip.

Anyway the next time I put the litter box in the bathroom was for Tolly, when he was so swelled up with fluid he could no longer go up and down the stairs.  However he flat out refused to use it.  Mazy cat used it, and did her kicking the litter out thing though not as vehemently, but Tolly couldn't adjust. So I simply carried him up and down the stairs several times a day for his last week with us.

Let me see if I can find those pictures...found them  funny2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 01, 2018, 06:47:36 PM
I'll update on Jennie tomorrow. I'm beat and haven't had supper yet. I just noticed it's almost 8:00.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 01, 2018, 11:12:23 PM
You're smart!  I probably wouldn't have realized that Queen Eva (or Mazy with Ootay) was jealous of the attention the sick kitty was getting.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

And I had to laugh when I ready how much Mazy hated that bathroom litterbox.  Thanks for sharing the story and the pics!  I'm glad Queen Eva's getting better and letting Jennie use the stairs.   thumbsup1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 02, 2018, 02:47:50 AM
She dumped the litter box?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 02, 2018, 05:44:10 AM
Thanks Pookie! Nah you would have figured it out. When I saw how she would watch me with Ootay, it wasn't hard to understand.  Mazy cat was still in the process of learning how to live with me in those days.  Her biting reflex wasn't curbed yet, I had never heard her purr, she'd never had a cuddle or slept on me. She was devoted to Tolly, that's all. Back then I never would have dreamed we'd have the bond we have now.

(edit) just had a thought.  I wonder....realizing her issue with Ootay and starting to help her with it maybe was the beginning of what we have now. I was already doing paw work with her, but I amped it up, when I realized she needed to be "done" when Ootay was "done".  I would medicate Ootay, then do paw work with Mazy cat.


She dumped the litter box?

Numerous times. I finally put the lid on it to stop her doing it. I hate lidded boxes, but Ootay was so tiny it didn't affect her comfort, and it stopped Mazy cat from tipping it over.

When I tried a box for Tolly I didn't use that one, he woudn't have been able to get in it (not that he used it anyway) I have a big low sided one I keep stored away I put out for him. I don't use it regularly because there's really no room for it downstairs.

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 02, 2018, 11:42:11 AM
Competition sometimes takes on strange outlets:>)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 02, 2018, 02:52:29 PM

Numerous times.



Persistant little booger!

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 02, 2018, 06:32:54 PM
How is the pride doing today?How are you?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 03, 2018, 07:37:54 AM
How is the pride doing today?How are you?

Thank you!  HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt

Here's Jennie's update, sorry it's probably going to be long.

First, Jennie has stopped taking the gabapentin in her food.  I now have to give it to her by syringe, but she's getting used to it. I don't think it's an awful taste, just the nastiness of being held against her will and having something squirted down her throat.  This may change again when the new gabapentin is started as that is a suspension (oil based) not a solution.  Maybe I'll get lucky and she'll take it in her food.

Next, it is getting more difficult to get her daily quota of food into her.  I think boredom is the main culprit but it may be she is having some nausea sometimes. I'm going to call the vet on Monday and ask about getting her some cerenia.  In the mean time she is still on canned foods. She's eating Organix chicken, and Organix chicken & liver.

She gets 0.75 ounce per serving.

I offer the meal straight, warmed up, with a little warm water added as well. She used to love soupy meals but she no longer will eat canned food soupy, so I only add a very little water.  Sometimes she eats the entire serving all at once. If that happens, great.

Often though she either stops half way through and asks for enhancements, or she balks right from the beginning.

When this happens I have two enhancements in my arsenal.  I have Fresh Is Best freeze dried beef heart medallions, which I crumble a little over the food.  And I have Fresh is Best freeze dried complete meal, which I crumble over.  She likes the complete better than the heart, but she needs variety.  The FIB uses bone meal in their complete meals, I would prefer Jennie have no bone, but there aren't any that don't use bone.

I am thinking about getting another freeze dried product to have on hand because it is inevitable she is going to get bored with the FIB. She has always required a wide variety.

There are times when nothing works, and the last thing I try is hand feeding.  Not right away. If she refuses a meal point blank, or can't finish even with enhancements, or if I am short of time I pick the dish up and put it back in the fridge, and later bring it back out and offer it again, by hand.  She enjoys being hand fed, but thankfully doesn't take advantage of it, only once or twice a day.

Hand feeding is done wherever Jennie happens to be resting at the time.

(When I hand feed Jennie,  Queen Eva hovers.  I let Queen Eva lick my fingers and when Jennie is done I bring the dish into the kitchen and let Queen Eva lick the residue from the dish. I believe this helps her feel part of it all)

I encourage her to eat at her usual meal spot for at least one serving per meal (since she gets only 0.75 per serving she gets 2 servings per meal) For her second serving, if she is all cozy in a bed somewhere and doesn't come when called, I will bring the meal to her and let her eat it in bed.  She enjoys this very much. Here is Jennie waiting for a meal  love1

~more to come~
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 03, 2018, 08:00:45 AM
One more food comment.  I was feeding her Ziwi Peak venison in her rotation but I've stopped. At first she really liked it, then started refusing it, even mixed or enhanced.  I think it was giving her a stomach ache after she ate it. So she isn't getting it any more.

I had stocked up on it, buying two cases (I always worry about availability/running out).  The food is very expensive, a case of 12 6.5 ounce cans is $66 and that's with an autoship discount.  I wrote to Chewy and told them about Jennie and asked if I could return the unopened case.  They refunded me for the food and told me to keep or donate the food.

So, as yet, Chewy is still Chewy, in spite of the Petsmart buy out. It's only fair I should tell this part.  I was very upset about the buy out as I really hate Petsmart. But availability of certain products remain more important to me than my principles, unfortunately.  My cats have to come first, above all other considerations.

~more~
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 03, 2018, 08:32:01 AM
Now the poop issue.  You don't have to read this if you don't want to.  I keep a journal but it helps me to have a typed out history to refer back to.

Jennie's pattern has been very consistent.  In the early morning hours, sometimes between 4-5 a.m.  I believe, Jennie gets out of bed (she sleeps in my arms) and goes down to the litter boxes and has a fairly substantial amount of poop.  What you would expect for a canned fed cat in size and shape, it's formed, but of course, further investigation reveals that is is very soft, and the inevitable blood.

 Later, during breakfast time she usually goes down again and has a few small mushy bits, and then during the morning when I am out work she appears to have mushy bits twice more (going by the fact there is some in two different litter boxes).  When I come home for lunch she will go down again after she eats, but often after straining all she produces is a blob of blood. (sorry)

In the evening she usually has another session of small mushy bits (all poop has blood now)

Anyway this has not changed in weeks, until this morning. That large "normal sized" BM in the early morning has given me a lot of reassurance that things are still moving through okay.  But this morning she has not had that.  Just some small mushy bits.  She ate okay, and with no enhancements.  But I am used to seeing that largish poop and it worries me that she didn't have it.

Her meds were delivered to the PO this morning so I will pick them up today, and I am hoping the anti-inflammatory medicine is going to help reduce the frequency of her passing the mushy poops, it must be uncomfortable for her to be doing that all the time. Supposedly it might slow or even reduce the size of the mass for a time, too.  Time will tell.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 03, 2018, 08:37:42 AM
PS Jennie ate both breakfast servings this morning with no balking and no enhancements!  The third picture above shows her enjoying her second meal this morning.  The other two just show other meals.

Considering the lack of poop, it makes me feel a bit better that she is eating so well this morning. If she had a blockage surely she wouldn't?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 03, 2018, 09:27:35 AM
PS Jennie ate both breakfast servings this morning with no balking and no enhancements!  The third picture above shows her enjoying her second meal this morning.  The other two just show other meals.

Considering the lack of poop, it makes me feel a bit better that she is eating so well this morning. If she had a blockage surely she wouldn't?

To say it bluntly - if not much goes in not much goes out. I am glad to hear she had a full breakfast and that her meds finally arrived.

Chewy seems to have gone through a rough spell after the acquisition and customer migration got them somewhat back on track. I actually called and told them this is their last chance after a break of three months. Maybe Jennie decides to like that stuff again in the future.

How are tho others? How are you?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 03, 2018, 10:31:24 AM
Reading and sending you all positive thoughts...  HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 03, 2018, 12:03:12 PM
To say it bluntly - if not much goes in not much goes out. I am glad to hear she had a full breakfast and that her meds finally arrived.



Thanks! That doesn't really apply though, she isn't eating less yet, I am just having more work to getting her to eat it.


Reading and sending you all positive thoughts...  HeadButt

 HeadButt HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 03, 2018, 12:13:44 PM
Reading and sending you all positive thoughts...  HeadButt

What Lola said.   Hug1 Hug1 Hug1  Also REALLY hoping that the meds slow/reduce the size of the mass.  It's good that you're keeping an eye on her bm's.  I'd be concerned, too, about the lack of large bm this morning, but maybe she'll have it later today or tomorrow.   fingerscrossed
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 03, 2018, 01:37:59 PM
Only another small bit. :(

I wonder if the gab is causing some constipation, though I don't remember seeing that as a side effect when I read about it. On the other hand, it was mentioned in her report that she may need stool softeners as time goes on.It's just...her stool IS soft already. She just isn't passing hardly any today.

She'll be starting the piroxicam this evening.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 04, 2018, 06:42:59 AM
Darnit I knew I should have kept this thread up yesterday, there's been a lot going on and I've already forgotten details.

First, Jennie's improvement on the piroxicam is amazing! Well, I gave it to her 2 hours after her dose of gabapentin (with food of course) and a half hour later I went to check on her and she seemed in a daze.  Her eyes were clear but...she wasn't moving at all, nor responding when I spoke to her, and I had to stroke her for some time to bring up a purr and it was so soft I had to put my ear to her body to hear it. Soft and thready.

But...an hour after that it was supper time. Jennie didn't come right away but when she did come to the kitchen she was TROTTING!  She even SANG a little bit before I put her dish down!  She had the 0.75 ounce eaten in less than a minute! (lately it takes her a good 5 minutes to finish a meal)

And then she hung around waiting for her second half!

After supper she went down to poop.  After a while I realized she'd been down there quite a while and I hadn't heard any digging so I went down.  She was just standing in the litter box. She didn't seem distressed, but I know, with a cat, that doesn't mean anything. As I watched she circled around and started to push so I stepped back out of sight to give her privacy.  When she finished I saw she had a small poop, two formed pieces (soft when squished) each about an inch long.

It's worrisome that she has to wait so long for the bowel to move but I don't know what it means.

At 3 a.m. she got up and went downstairs and had a larger poop, well a larger single formed piece, and two mushy bits, then at 6:30 another set of two formed pieces an inch long, and just now (7:30) a single tiny formed piece a half in long.

You guys don't have to read all these poop details, I am just recording it here for myself.

But a blockage, or even partial blockage would cause her to have long skinny poops (formed as they squeeze by the block) or diarrhea, plus of course she wouldn't be eating so well again.

By the way...in case you want to know how I knew she'd gotten up at 3 a,m, to poop.  I didn't hear her get up but I felt her come back to bed.  I was lying there drifting back into sleep when I smelled poop.  I lifted my hand in the dark to feel where Jennie was and she was standing at my face with her butt to me!  Now the reason she was doing this is obvious, I've gotten into the habit of patting her down after she poops so she doesn't leave little blobs of bloody poop when she sits.  She, in turn, now has the habit of coming to me to have it done. Even in the middle of the night!  funny2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 05, 2018, 06:28:07 AM
Jennie had a poop at 3 am that was three large logs. (formed but soft, usual blood) What this means at least is that she ISN'T blocked because if she was, she'd never be able to pass something that size. At 6:30 she had the usual small mushy bits, with one piece partially formed.

Tonight she gets another piroxicam.

PS Her appetite is great.  I wonder if I could get her eating some raw again.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 05, 2018, 06:48:54 AM
I would check with vet before changing her diet again.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 05, 2018, 01:00:32 PM
I would check with vet before changing her diet again.

 funny2 funny2 funny2

Sorry, I know you were probably serious.  But the vets, at least the vets I have access to, are the last place I would turn to for diet advice. They push garbage diets.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 05, 2018, 01:53:05 PM
After she had Campylobacter (sp?) and no one else was sick or got sick... didn't you (or vet..can't remember who now) decide it was from raw foods, due to her immune system being out of whack?

Edit for clarification.

After she was diagnosed with campylobacter and no one else got campylobacter... didn't you (or vet... can't remember who now) decide the campylobacter was from raw foods? 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 05, 2018, 03:30:08 PM
I am pretty sure the campylobacter was from the chicken wings, the only thing Jennie ate exclusively.  But yes, I did wonder if it was the cancer, affecting her immune system,  that made her susceptible to the infection.

The cancer was not caused by the campylobacter infection.  It's likely that's been lurking for a long time.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 05, 2018, 03:58:39 PM
I am pretty sure the campylobacter was from the chicken wings, the only thing Jennie ate exclusively.  But yes, I did wonder if it was the cancer, affecting her immune system,  that made her susceptible to the infection.

The cancer was not caused by the campylobacter infection.  It's likely that's been lurking for a long time.

I was just thinking that having her eat raw MIGHT be opening a can of worms. 
I wan't thinking that the campylobacter infection caused the cancer.  Sorry, if that is the impression I gave you.  I edited my other post for clarification.  ;D
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 05, 2018, 06:29:10 PM
No that wasn't it.  Hug1 

I was just feeling snarky because everyone is criticizing me and no one mentioned the actual GOOD news which is that Jennie is feeling better on the piroxicam. And she even had a large poop! Why isn't THAT important? geez!  Silly7

I'd like to focus a bit on the positive things you know?  It's a good thing that she feels better.  So what in the long run she won't be here, isn't it important for NOW that she feel better and actually have something she likes?

It's maybe a valid point you are making about the raw I don't know. I've read many things that state even immunocompromised  cats (such as FIV+, cats on pred and, yes, cancer cats) can still eat a raw diet. I know a number of those types in the IBD group who are still fed a raw diet.

  I can avoid poultry, especially chicken, and just give her some little slivers of beef or pork. Just something to make her life a little pleasanter. If I decide to do it.

Well she's already getting some raw, the Fresh Is Best freeze dried beef complete meal as a topper when she is tired of the canned and won't eat it any more and the Fresh is Best beef hearts also.

Anyway, there now I've had my rant.  I feel better.   funny2  grouphug
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 05, 2018, 06:55:53 PM
No that wasn't it.  Hug1 

I was just feeling snarky because everyone is criticizing me and no one mentioned the actual GOOD news which is that Jennie is feeling better on the piroxicam. And she even had a large poop! Why isn't THAT important? geez!  Silly7

I'd like to focus a bit on the positive things you know?  It's a good thing that she feels better.  So what in the long run she won't be here, isn't it important for NOW that she feel better and actually have something she likes?

It's maybe a valid point you are making about the raw I don't know. I've read many things that state even immunocompromised  cats (such as FIV+, cats on pred and, yes, cancer cats) can still eat a raw diet. I know a number of those types in the IBD group who are still fed a raw diet.

  I can avoid poultry, especially chicken, and just give her some little slivers of beef or pork. Just something to make her life a little pleasanter. If I decide to do it.

Well she's already getting some raw, the Fresh Is Best freeze dried beef complete meal as a topper when she is tired of the canned and won't eat it any more and the Fresh is Best beef hearts also.

Anyway, there now I've had my rant.  I feel better.   funny2  grouphug

Was just trying to help you not make a possible mistake... with her doing so well.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 05, 2018, 07:10:49 PM
Yeah I get that. And appreciate it. Though I'm not convinced it would be. But what I don't understand is why  ...why isn't anyone glad she feels better? I don't have any false hopes if that's what you're worried about.  I know she's got a fatal disease.  But why can't we celebrate the good things for now?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 05, 2018, 08:56:10 PM
Jennie is HERSELF again.  She had her second piroxicam tonight.  Pray her kidneys can handle it! She's trotting around with her tail up! She's purring audibly! She's kneading all over the place! She's singing, and talking and showing interest. Now I know why vets like this class of drug so much, it's very dramatic. Sadly it really isn't all that safe for cats. But let's hope Jennie is one of the lucky ones. It makes me so happy to see her feeling better.

I just can't stand it when they don't feel well.  I just can't stand it to think of any of them suffering. I just can't stand it.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 05, 2018, 09:49:08 PM
Yeah I get that. And appreciate it. Though I'm not convinced it would be. But what I don't understand is why  ...why isn't anyone glad she feels better? I don't have any false hopes if that's what you're worried about.  I know she's got a fatal disease.  But why can't we celebrate the good things for now?

I think I can safely say on behalf of all of us that we are glad she's feeling better.  That IS wonderful news.  Please pardon us for not expressing it.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 06, 2018, 04:33:54 AM
I know. Thank you Pookie.  Hug1 Hug1

It's just...seeing her lose everything that was uniquely her, all the habits and quirks that are Jennie-Jennie..I was missing her so much. Seeing it all come back, for however long, is like a miracle.  I've been trying so hard to accept the changes and tell myself she's still Jennie, even so.  But it hurts so much to feel like she isn't getting any enjoyment, or at least, not as much.  Seeing her once again blossom into herself..I can't express how glad I am. For however long.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 06, 2018, 06:40:24 PM
Jennie played tonight! She's talking singing, making air biscuits! I posted in the IBD group asking if anyone had any suggestions about ways I can support her kidneys, to maybe lessen the impact of the piroxicam.  It was suggested to me that I put her on sub q fluids a couple times a week.  I think that's a great idea and I hope the vet isn't going to give me a hard time about it.

I don't know much about how meds are processed.  She gets the capsule once every 48 hours.  So....would it be better to give the fluids on the opposite day maybe?  Or just pick two days a week, say Wednesday and Sunday.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 06, 2018, 10:08:02 PM
I'm not familiar with that class of drugs, so I don't know how long they stay in the body.  It's a bit late so I'll try to Google it tomorrow, unless someone else has time to do that.  Question:  is the dosing (1 capsule every 48 hours) what the vet advised, or is that your dosing?  I know sometimes you like to start out with the lowest dose and go from there, that's why I ask.

Anyway, getting back to your question:  After some thinking . . . just to keep it simple, it might be better to just pick 2 days a week and see how that goes.  Though if you give the medication in the morning, for example, you might want to wait until the evening to give the fluids, just so her system has time to metabolize the medication.

Oh, and if your vet gives you a hard time about the fluids, kick him/her in the shins for me.  There's no reason they should have any objection to that.  I doubt giving her fluids would be a bad thing -- she'd pee out what she doesn't need, wouldn't she?

Jennie played tonight! She's talking singing, making air biscuits!

multistars multistars multistars multistars multistars
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 07, 2018, 04:56:50 AM
Thanks Pookie.  The medication is as prescribed.  Piroxicam is an NSAID, not approved for use in cats in the US.  None are because of the kidney issues. But as a last resort situation, I am willing to use it for Jennie because there is no doubt it has improved her quality of life. She is herself again.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 07, 2018, 07:09:44 AM
Prescribed medication but not approved for cats - how does that work?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 07, 2018, 08:14:25 AM
Prescribed medication but not approved for cats - how does that work?

It's prescribed for humans but not for cats.  NSAIDS are your pain reliever/anti-inflammatories like aspirin and ibuprofen.  Both are no-no's for cats, but are safe for humans.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 07, 2018, 11:58:44 AM
Also, it is a last resort kind of a thing.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 07, 2018, 01:20:02 PM
Prescribed medication but not approved for cats - how does that work?

Veterinarians use all kinds of medicines off label for animals. It's a common practice. Both medicines Jennie is on have to be specially compounded at a safe cat dose, and in the case of the gabapentin, to eliminate the xylitol.

Wedgewood is the compounding pharmacy my vet uses. If I wanted to use a different compounding pharmacy the vet would have had to write the prescriptions for me to send them in myself.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 07, 2018, 04:09:08 PM
It still does not answer my question - prescription medication for a cat but not approved for cats?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 07, 2018, 04:27:54 PM
 Maybe I am not understanding what you are asking?

Most medications that vets prescribe for cats are not "approved" for use in cats. This lets the pharmaceutical companies off the hook if something happens to the cat. Cats' livers and kidneys are so sensitive, if vets didn't use anything not approved for cats, cats would have no pain medications, at all.

The medications are used "off label".

Other examples of meds that are used in cats (and dogs) "off label" include certain antidepressants like amitriptyline (used for FHS, and urinary tract disorders) and fluoxitine (prozac). Those are human meds not designed for animals, but they are used in animals "off label"
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 07, 2018, 04:44:14 PM
^------ Well done, MC!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 07, 2018, 06:51:31 PM
Thank you! Our furries have just been rather healthy - Twostep until the end and ShadowCat when she throws tantrums. Tried one this week and I told here there is no SO rushing out of a meeting, emergency vet, all you can wolf down. Drama Queen!

How is Jennie tonight, how are her cousins, how are you?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 08, 2018, 04:52:25 AM
Thank you! Our furries have just been rather healthy - Twostep until the end and ShadowCat when she throws tantrums. Tried one this week and I told here there is no SO rushing out of a meeting, emergency vet, all you can wolf down. Drama Queen!

How is Jennie tonight, how are her cousins, how are you?

Chemotherapy is another example of drugs used "off label".

Well I haven't used all those medications either, those are just some of the ones I know about, having participated in on line pet forums for the last 26 years :)

Jennie is doing great, she has been seen playing again and last night she gave Queen Eva what for!  Mazy cat is struggling with some fur not moving through, she's thrown up her breakfast 3 days in a row.  Queen Eva is behaving herself!  Silly7

I'm okay too though I woke up this morning with very little voice.  Don't know what that's about.

Thanks for asking!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 10, 2018, 06:31:16 AM
Jennie has gained an ounce and a half under my tender care. bananamiddlechild

I'm going to my sister's today and I didn't realize until last night it's going to affect the timing of her gabapentin. I pushed it to half an hour later last night and almost an hour this morning, because jno matter how I arrange my timing, she's going to have to go 9 hours again.

Shes on the first 24 hours of her piroxicam, hopefully that will help.

Then back on track.

Vet has approved the use of sub q fluids but cautions it could mask kidney damage, if it's happening, so I am to watch her drinking and peeing habits closely. Jennie doesn't drink at all so if I see her at the water bowl I will know something is up. And of course I already do watch her pee habits.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 10, 2018, 07:16:09 AM
That is good news on a gray Saturday morning! Have fun with your sister.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 10, 2018, 08:02:02 AM
Good to hear all is going pretty good overall.
Enjoy your visit with sister.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 13, 2018, 06:38:55 PM
Jennie always feels so much better after getting her piroxicam. By the second day she gets much less active, and I notice it but I don't realize how much difference there is until she has her next dose and then she's again back to almost her normal self.

Tonight she had her piroxicam at 5:30.  At 6:00 she played a little.  just a tiny bit, swatting at her string on the bed, but still, it was play.  Then at supper time she did a little bit of a Song and Dance!

And then, at MY supper time...something I haven't seen in quite some time....counter surfing to see if I'd spilled anything!  As it happens I did spill some soup, (home made) and hadn't really cleaned it up yet.  She smelled it and went looking for it.  funny2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 13, 2018, 08:07:26 PM
 funny2  at the pictures!  And multistars over the medication helping her feel better.

BTW, just out of curiosity, have you started giving her the fluids yet, and if so, do you think that helps her feel better, too?  If she's not on fluids yet, when do you plan to start them?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 14, 2018, 04:43:52 AM
I haven't started the fluids yet.  I decided to wait until after her first blood check. She's getting some water added to every meal and peeing normally, so far.  HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 14, 2018, 07:09:28 AM
I love the term counter surfing:)
Every morning we have prints on the very front of the stove. Somebody is checking if a can got opened by accident. No luck though - plates, spoon, cans are just sitting there for 5:30.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 16, 2018, 05:16:07 AM
I love the term counter surfing:)
Every morning we have prints on the very front of the stove. Somebody is checking if a can got opened by accident. No luck though - plates, spoon, cans are just sitting there for 5:30.

 funny2 funny2 funny2 I love that story, thank you for the chuckle!

I wanted to mention here some other things observed when Jennie has her piroxicam. For one thing yesterday she didn't ahve the same good evening afterwards, like she usually does.  Shew as off her food and not at all active, just wanted to curl up and sleep.

But the thing I wanted to mention as part of the pattern is the morning after (so about 12 hours later) she has the piroxicam she have a very smelly poop.  Most of the time her bloody stools don't have much odor thank goodness.  But 12 hours after the piroxicam it's pretty toxic smelling!

No sign of kidney issues (such as haning over the water bowl drinking a lot or excess pee) Jennie doens't drink at all ever, so if I see her at the water bowl I'll know.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 16, 2018, 07:23:26 AM
Keep it up, keep it up!!!!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 16, 2018, 12:44:03 PM
Keep it up, keep it up!!!!

Ditto!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 16, 2018, 01:01:59 PM
Ditto!

Make it 3!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 17, 2018, 08:58:40 AM
Aw thanks you guys.  Jennie gained another ounce this week so I am feeling less anxious about when she refuses a meal. She is at her normal weight now.

Queen Eva is doing much much better about harassing her and I know, even when I am not here, because Jennie has gone back to swearing at her and giving a little dash at her instead of flinching away. When Jennie does the dash-and-swear Queen Eva does her usual little brrrrpp and goes into a flop and roll.  I am happy to see that dynamic return to normal!

Pictures all from the last few days.  Wish her fur would grow faster.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 17, 2018, 11:15:38 AM
Jennie just had a vestibular episode. I knew what it was of course, almost instantly though when I heard the thud my first thought was seizure.

She had been sleeping peacefully on the kitchen chair and just suddenly tumbled off it to the floor with a thud. Then began staggering across the floor. I snatched her up and flipped her over so she was lying in my arms belly up and saw the nystagmus of her eyes. (I remembered how flipping her over had stopped it last time)

She struggled out of my arms and staggered into the bedroom where she attempted to jump on the bed.  I scooped her up and again flipped her over before putting her on the bed (upright) and looked at her eyes again, they were still jittering but not quite as fast.  She talked to me while I petted her and fussed over her, then checked her eyes again and they had stopped.

You may or may not remember this happened to her once before (that I know of):

http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?topic=4370.msg31764#msg31764

Anyway I tried to call my vet clinic but they had already closed up and sending people to the answering service who sent me to the on call vet. I've been to them a number of times for emergencies over the years.

I called and spoke to ..don't know if she was a receptionist or a vet tech.  I wish I thought to ask, next time I will.  I wasn't sure if Jennie needed to be seen and wanted to speak to a vet.  After explaining the situation this person said to keep an eye on her and if it happened again call back.  They were there until 5:00. 

She seemed focusing on saving me the $100 emergency fee.  I said impatiently that I didn't care about that but I wanted to speak to the vet if possible.  The vets were all busy with emergencies, and I left my # for a vet to call me back.  If it happens again I will bring her in, but she is all back to normal now.

I am actually glad now that this happened once before to her.  Because otherwise I'd be blaming the meds and freaking out wondering if it was a seizure.  But I am positive it was a vestibular episode.

Edit - to make sure she was alright I got some poached chicken out of the freezer, thawed it in hot water, then went into the bedroom to give her a whiff, then came back in the kitchen and called to her to make sure she could jump down off the bed and run into the kitchen okay.  She did, and she and Queen Eva enjoyed a nice hand fed treat of poached chicken breast. Mazy cat didn't want any.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 17, 2018, 01:59:36 PM
grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug

Thanks for posting the link to that other thread -- I'd forgotten about the first episode.  No advice, just lots of hugs and purrs.  I'm glad it stopped!

CatPurr  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 CatPurr
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 17, 2018, 06:46:12 PM
What would be the difference between a seizure and a vestibular episode?
Either way... glad it stopped!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 17, 2018, 07:15:24 PM
What would be the difference between a seizure and a vestibular episode?
Either way... glad it stopped!

Well.... the vestibular episode is caused by an inner ear disturbance, the crystals in the ear fluid cross from where they belong to where they don't is my vague understanding of it. The nystagmus is the telltale symptom. It's unmistakable.

  A seizure is a neurological issue. It can present in any number of ways including a cat suddenly falling off a chair and staggering, but she was fully alert, and there was the nystagmus.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 18, 2018, 08:37:08 AM
Jennie is completely transitioned to the new suspension gabapentin now. It doesn't seem to be helping as much as the solution gabapentin medicine I got from the specialist vet. :(

I still have some of the other left in the fridge.  A few days worth anyway..  So I'm going to continue with the suspension med for a few more days, then switch back to the solution for a few days to see if my observation is accurate.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 18, 2018, 10:04:10 AM
She gave you on h.... of a scare! Your vet does not give you his cell for acute emergencies?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 18, 2018, 11:07:12 AM
She gave you on h.... of a scare! Your vet does not give you his cell for acute emergencies?

Heck no, those vets have made themselves almost completely un-accessible now.  It didn't used to be that way.  They have no private voicemail and no private e mail, let alone cell number.  If you want to ask a question or talk to a vert during hours you have to talk to a receptionist first and hope the vet calls you back.If you have an emergency after hours you call the line and get the exchange and the exchange tells you what clinic is on call (there are a couple who rotate).

They are really the only decent clinic in town (the other is a kitty toe chop shop) so maybe they just got too busy and are trying to protect their staff vets from burn out I don't know. I've complained a number of times about the new practice but no one cares.

A vet tech I used to know and love long long ago who actually worked for the kitty toe chop shop left there (shortly before I did when I found out about their eagerness to chop off kitty toes) and went to vet school. 

I only just learned on Friday that he recently set up his own practice a few miles away.  I have e mailed him to ask him about his policies on raw feeding and declawing.  I may be  switching, at least Jennie and Queen Eva, if he shares my views. I won't change Mazy cat it would be just too difficult for her.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 18, 2018, 01:39:40 PM
I really think this  new gabapentin is not helping her as much, even though she does seem to tolerate the taste better.  I don't know what to do. I can't drive to the specialty clinic every month to pick up a bottle can I?  It's 100 miles one way! I wonder if they'd double or triple the prescription for me, so I'd only have to go up once every 3 months. I think I'll call them tomorrow and ask.

I just can't STAND to think of her in any pain.  And it is clear by her behavior today that now, after 36 hours totally on the new med, that it is not helping her. At least not as much. I feel so frantic.  I do have a little left of the other and will be returning to that tonight, and maybe it will last until I can get more from the clinic.  If I HAVE to drive up there every month I will, but maybe they'll have a heart for my situation.

Edit again. Also I think I mentioned early on that I thght it was upsetting her stomach a bit (the other does not) and now I am sure of it.  She's started to go off her food a bit, and just now vomited her lunch. What little lunch I had managed to coax her to eat  Jennie NEVER vomits.

I am glad I am on vacation this week.  I hope I can drive up there on Wednesday and get a refill.  Mazy cat will be at the vet. Her appointment is in the morning, 8:10, but since she's going to be getting anesthesia, vet is going to keep her there for half a day after. So I can drive up there, get the meds, and get back in time to pick Mazy cat up.

Later: I've kept Jennie on poached chicken and broth for the remainder of today.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 18, 2018, 09:23:36 PM
Just wondering . . . is there a (human) pharmacy (think Rite-Aid, Walgreens, CVS) near you that also handles pet prescriptions?  If so, maybe the vet can call in the prescription to the human-pharmacy and you could pick it up from them.  Just an idea.

Sending GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 18, 2018, 10:22:44 PM
Thanks Pookie. Unfortunately the gabapentin has to be specially compounded for cats.  There is no pill or capsule of the right dosage and the human liquid contains xylitol.

The suspension liquid the mail order pharmacy makes does not have to be refrigerated so it can be sent by mail. The solution liquid the veterinary specialty clinic dispenses has to be kept refrigerated so I will have to pick it up.

Jennie had some more broth but only a little poached chicken.  I hope by tomorrow, with no more of that suspension gabapentin, she will be feeling better. I have enough of the solution to last about 3 more days probably.

If they won't give me more than one month at a time..well I took Christmas Eve off so I can go up that day, then there are holidays in January and February I can drive up there, or I will have to take a vacation day, if the weather is bad on the holidays. In March and April I will have to take a vacation day, if Jennie is still with me then.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 19, 2018, 07:38:07 AM
I called this morning . I had to leave a message. I said I would order the one month and come pick it up this week but asked about getting 3 months and asked someone to call me back and let me know if this was possible. Jennie is already doing better with two doses of the solution formula under her belt.  She ate her breakfast and is moving around more again.

I did find out from their message that I can pick up medications on weekends as well, so I won't have to take days off at least.

PS I followed up with an e mail to the internal medicine vet who saw us.

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 19, 2018, 09:54:44 AM
Just fyi, to you and others who visit here:  some human pharmacies will do compounding for pets.

I hope you hear back from the vet soon!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 19, 2018, 01:46:42 PM
Just fyi, to you and others who visit here:  some human pharmacies will do compounding for pets.

I hope you hear back from the vet soon!

If the medicine is made for people, most of the "big" pharmacies do compounding for pets...and usually MUCH cheaper. 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 19, 2018, 03:48:59 PM
Good points both of you thanks. However I want Jennie to stay on what she is already on.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 20, 2018, 07:37:33 AM
I have heard from the veterinary specialists and they have agreed to the larger refill.  They will call me when it's ready, and since I canceled my hike today I can drive right up there and get it.  No more worries about running out. I can't believe what a load off me this is.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 20, 2018, 08:27:39 AM
Good points both of you thanks. However I want Jennie to stay on what she is already on.

Understood, but I think there may be some confusion.  The point was, you could probably get what she IS already on from one of the big pharmacies, because they will also compound medications for pets, including veterinary medications.  We weren't suggesting changing what she's on, just getting it from a different place.  I hope that explanation clarifies things.

All that said, I'm glad the vet specialists agreed to the larger refill.  That definitely DOES take a load off!   thumbsup1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 20, 2018, 09:27:23 AM
Sorry I am not making msyelf clear. I am having this same discussion in the IBD group and they are making the same comments as you, so obviously it is ME that is not explaining properly.

 Yes I understand that I can get gabapentin from other sources.  However  it won't be what she is already on.

Compounding methods are different at different suppliers. Jennie cannot tolerate the Wedgewood compounded gabapentin.  She doesn't have the time or the stamina for me to be experimenting with other different pharmacy suppliers who wil be using their own compounding methods.

I don't want to do trial and error with Jennie.  There is no point to that, because, to put it bluntly, Jennie has a fatal disease and is not going to be around long enough to make trial and error worthwhile.

I already know she can tolerate and feel better on the compounded medicine from the specialist center. So I want her to stay on that.

The inconvenience to me is not important. It's not going to be forever after all.  Jennie's comfort is what's important. It is ALL that matters. Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 21, 2018, 12:28:44 PM
Quote
Compounding methods are different at different suppliers. Jennie cannot tolerate the Wedgewood compounded gabapentin.  She doesn't have the time or the stamina for me to be experimenting with other different pharmacy suppliers who wil be using their own compounding methods.

I didn't know that.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 21, 2018, 01:01:10 PM
I didn't know that.

Well but it makes sense, when you think about it?  This is what I mean.... the mail order compounding pharmacy uses almond oil as the carrier.  The compounding pharmacy at the veterinary specialists center uses water as the carrier.  Other places may use other substances. 

Since I've found something Jennie can tolerate I want to stick with that, not keep trying other things, continually upsetting her system even more.  I just don't see any point to that.

Am I making sense yet?  :-[
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 21, 2018, 02:08:48 PM
Well but it makes sense, when you think about it?

I would have thought pharmacists would be taught the same compounding practices when they go to pharmacy school (seriously, I'm not being a smarty-pants, they go to school for it), so I would have thought they use the same methods and techniques.  I've only had to use a compounding pharmacy once for Pookie, and it was just to get his medication in a chicken-flavored liquid form, so my experience is very limited.

Since I've found something Jennie can tolerate I want to stick with that, not keep trying other things, continually upsetting her system even more.  I just don't see any point to that.

Makes sense!  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."   :)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 21, 2018, 03:17:26 PM
I would have thought pharmacists would be taught the same compounding practices when they go to pharmacy school (seriously, I'm not being a smarty-pants, they go to school for it), so I would have thought they use the same methods and techniques.  I've only had to use a compounding pharmacy once for Pookie, and it was just to get his medication in a chicken-flavored liquid form, so my experience is very limited.

Makes sense!  "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."   :)

But it's not the method that's the issue here, it's the ingredients. It's not any different from me not being able to take generic thyroid medicine.  I have to have the name brand Synthroid.  I would like it very much if I could take the generic levothyroxine.  The Synthroid costs a fortune every month.

However, having said that, there are probably as many methods to compounding pet meds as there are pharmacists to do it. Regardless of what they are taught everyone does things in their own ways..
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 21, 2018, 04:57:13 PM
By the way, I followed your (all) advice and have kept Jennie on canned food.  Thank you all.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2018, 07:56:53 AM
Jennie is playing a little every day! It makes me so happy to see her! This morning she had a little song and dance for breakfast!  Not her usual very active Song and Dance, but a lot of song and a tiny bit of dance.

On Thanksgiving when my friend D came Jennie wanted to be noticed. It was very strange because Jennie usually just ignores a visitor until she feels like going over to say hello with a sniff or two.  But she just lay there in her bed and stared at D until I prompted D to go over and speak to her. Jennie turned herself inside out with delight.

She's maintaining her normal healthy weight at 8 pounds 8 ounces.  Her fur, it looks like, is going to grow in much lighter than it used to be.  This, if I remember correctly, has something to do with temperature. It's cold now, so the fur will grow in light. I could be wrong though.

Hard to believe it's been a whole month since that drive up to the specialist clinic. Her blood test is Monday. She's been on the piroxicam 3 weeks. Keep your paws crossed her kidneys are handling the piroxicam. I don't see any evidence that there is a problem.  Her pee habits remain the same, and she never goes near the water bowl. After the test I will start the sub q fluids.

Then, hopefully that will be the end of vet trips, for everyone, for a good long time.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 24, 2018, 08:56:22 AM
Good to hear (read)! 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2018, 09:00:08 AM
Good to hear (read)! 

love1  HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 24, 2018, 10:57:53 AM
Good to hear (read)! 

Ditto!  And  fingerscrossed that her kidneys are handling the medication well.   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2018, 02:41:11 PM
Thanks Pookie!

Statue Cat!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on November 26, 2018, 06:55:20 PM
Jennie had her kidney values check this evening. All normal yay!  So relieved so we can carry on with the piroxicam and vet said to go ahead and start the fluids, 75 ml twice a week, just to support the kidneys and help keep them flushed out.

Vet was very happy with Jennie's overall condition. No weight loss, well hydrated, lovely coat, bright eyes, heart and lungs normal... (actually she seemed a bit surprised, but I could be reading her wrong, I don't know her very well yet. Maybe she just expected Jennie to be sicker.)

Vet also said this is her first experience treating a cat with piroxicam, so she is very interested in tracking how Jennie does on it.  Of course she would be anyway I understand that, but this is a strong and potentially risky drug to use on a cat.

I told her that normally I would not allow this class of drug to be used in one of my own cats, but this is a Last Resort situation, so we have nothing to lose.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 26, 2018, 09:11:47 PM
 love1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on November 26, 2018, 10:37:00 PM
Thanks for the update!  I'm glad Jennie's doing so well.   thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on November 27, 2018, 08:52:27 AM
Paws and fingers are crossed.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on November 30, 2018, 07:59:17 PM
Any Jennie stories you would like to share?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 01, 2018, 08:39:46 AM
Jennie's doing okay. Sometimes I think she is having pain, but of course it's hard to tell.  I'm trying to keep track now, to see if her pain level seems to go up near the end of her piroxicam cycle, or if the symptoms are happening all the time. I don't know what, if anything, can be added to help.

What makes me notice is that sometimes she shifts position a lot, or while resting/sleeping she will suddenly jerk a bit. But it doens't happen all the time.

Her appetite is normal and she still has her little Game every morning and evening. Two days ago I thought I was seeing some improvement in the quality of her poops, but then last night and this morning changed that theory.

The CBD to help with pain suggestion keeps rearing it's head, but I am reluctant still to try it for her. It's a very large expense for something I don't know if it will even help. Not to mention it will mean more pilling.  I've already "wasted" a good amount of money on suggestions from the same source, before she had her diagnosis.

On the other hand I can't stand to think of her in pain.

Thanks for asking.  HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on December 01, 2018, 09:14:20 AM
CBD - check with local vap shops. The homeo store our vet sent me to sold it in minimum increments of 500 ml. I had not planned to drown ShadowCat! Vap shops have samplers.
Izzi is just stopping by for a chin scratch.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 01, 2018, 10:36:51 AM
Thanks for the suggestion.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 01, 2018, 03:49:07 PM
CBD - check with local vap shops. The homeo store our vet sent me to sold it in minimum increments of 500 ml. I had not planned to drown ShadowCat! Vap shops have samplers.
Izzi is just stopping by for a chin scratch.

So are you using it for Shadow?

I have ordered the Charlotte's Web most often recommended on the IBD group. And I paid for 2 day shipping once I found it was going to take almost 3 weeks to get here otherwise. I can't stand thinking of Jennie in pain, and she is off her appetite today.  I'm not sure I trust my judgement on her comfort level any more.  After all before putting her on the gabapentin I didn't even know she was in pain. It wasn't until I saw the difference after giving it to her that I realized. As closely as I watch them, I didn't even KNOW.

  I may have to give up eating for a few weeks to pay for it.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 01, 2018, 08:19:51 PM
I am SURE you are taking care of Jennie VERY well!  If you related to your cats any better, you would the a physic!
Is the CBD legal in all states?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 01, 2018, 09:02:10 PM
I am SURE you are taking care of Jennie VERY well! 

Agreed.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

Quote
If you related to your cats any better, you would be physic!

I thought she was!   :)

Sending hugs . . .  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 02, 2018, 07:06:53 AM
I am SURE you are taking care of Jennie VERY well!  If you related to your cats any better, you would the a physic!
Is the CBD legal in all states?

Thank you both.  The Charlotte's Web CBD oil is made from hemp, not marijuana. I don't know what regulations other states have about it but it is sold here locally so I didn't think I would have any problem ordering it and I didn't.  I could have gone to see what the local "health food" store had in stock (they carry Charlotte's Web) but I don't trust that store. Probably a major mark up besides. Since I'm using it for Jennie I prefer to get it straight from the source.

We have vape stores too but I won't go in them.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 02, 2018, 07:51:02 AM

I am SURE you are taking care of Jennie VERY well!  If you related to your cats any better, you would the a physic!



Actually I am a "bit psychic" as the saying goes lol.

Agreed.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

I thought she was!   :)

Sending hugs . . .  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1


It's not that I doubt my care.  I know I take good care of them.  It's just the horror of finding out a cat under your care was suffering and you didn't even know it.  that's happened once before too, with Tolly and the first time he had FORL. He WAS showing signs of pain but and I saw them but didn't attribute them to pain symptoms.

It makes you question your judgment over all if you can miss something like that. And it's leaves a terrible lingering feeling of horror. Hard to let go of.

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 02, 2018, 08:10:14 AM
Post # 3 for this morning haha

Jennie really struggled to eat yesterday.  I also noticed her frequent pooping had changed.  She didn't poop all day.  I did wonder if the two were related but I also think she is having pain. I managed to get about half her usual food into her yesterday, all by hand feeding.  She would lick it off my fingers.

Earlier in the week when she was having those formed firmer stools I was thinking that was a good thing, but now I wonder.

This morning, in the early hours, her normal time to have her largest poop she did have one, and again it is different.  One long piece, very firm, and then a smaller piece dry and crumbly. I don't know what that means I just want to get it on record so I don't forget.  f anyone has an ideas I am glad to hear them.

I had to hand feed her her meal after her 6 a.m. gabapentin, but she did eat 0.5 ounce. 

I went back to bed and at some point she left the bed again and had some more poop, little bits, in two boxes, and while they LOOK like they are mushy, they are actually dry and crumbly feeling.

But then asked for and ate her first breakfast serving at her usual meal spot, on her own, with great appetite..  She lingered asking for more but by the time I was ready to give it to her she didn't want it any more and had gone to the bed on the couch.  I'm just about to try again.

Success! In the pictures, 1st pic is when I put the food down for her. Second is: I kept trying to get a shot of her licking her chops but I kept missing it. That's why she looks so annoyed in the 2nd picture and why I finally went to video when she kept licking the empty dish.

https://youtu.be/-sfNdBRLCRo
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on December 02, 2018, 09:07:51 AM
Your patient has good and not so good days. You are there for her and she knows. Savor the good ones and be strong for the others.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 02, 2018, 10:16:38 AM
No idea on the texture change of the poop, but I'm wondering if she's sometimes feeling constipated, which is throwing off her appetite, and once she poops enough she feels better and gets her appetite back.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 02, 2018, 10:23:43 AM
No idea on the texture change of the poop, but I'm wondering if she's sometimes feeling constipated, which is throwing off her appetite, and once she poops enough she feels better and gets her appetite back.

That's what I was thinking too Pookie, thanks. (also thanks threestep)

In her notes from the internal medicine appointment it does mention that she would eventually need a stool softener.  At the time reading that I didn't believe it because her poop was already soft.  but now I see what they mean.

 The CBD may help with that as well.  If she needs more help, I'll call the vet for some lactulose though I really dread having to use it. It's horrible stuff.  Cats hate it, it's sticky and gets everywhere. So lets hope the CBD oil helps with the stool too.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 02, 2018, 11:29:54 AM
More notes.  A few minutes ago (about 12:00 noon) Jennie got up from her morning nap and was crouching on the floor looking unhappy.  She did respond to petting physically and vocally and seemed to want to be up on the perch, I am sure she can still get up there on her own but I picked her up and put her up there anyway and we had a little rapture together.

She allowed me to palpate/massage her tummy but did not like the area at the root of her tail, on her back, touched.

I stepped away to do something else and she came back down on her own and played with her banana for only a minute, then headed down to the litter boxes.  I followed and watched her.

The usual, she stands in position for a few long minutes before starting to push. She does seem to strain a bit before producing the stool, but she's always been so private about pooping up until she got ill I really don't know if that's normal for her or new.

The poop was dark, formed, what would be considered a normal size for a raw fed cat who was pooping once every 2 days or so (to clarify Jennie is canned fed. I am only using that example for description purposes).

It was soft when I pressed on it..and here's something strange.  When first putting pressure on it it .."popped" a little.  So it had gas pockets in it.  Her x ray back in September did show gas bubbles in her poop but this is the first time I have heard that little pop sound.

Not much blood. Only a trace.

She is now looking much more comfortable.  When she was crouching half an hour a go I was even thinking of giving her the gabapentin early. The problem with that is, I can't keep up a schedule like that with lesser time in between, because of course I have to work. If I give it to her every 6, or even 7 hours, there will be times she has to go even longer between, it won't work.

All hopes pinned on the CBD now. It should be here Wednesday. But it takes time to find the right dose, starting really slowly. One drop a day to start.

I COULD ask the vet about getting some buprenex for when I think she is really uncomfortable between gab doses. Hmmmmmm
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 02, 2018, 03:12:21 PM
Look who's feeling better!  Had a sniff outside for a minute, and later got herself up onto the perch for a nice tuck.

Just now she had her little bit of Play. I'd love to get some video of that but I don't want to interfere.  Still trying to think of a way to do it without bothering her.

(she also ate all her lunch and had another one of those poops as described above) I am releived she is back to her nomral pattern. I think you are right about the constipation Pookie.)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 02, 2018, 07:48:00 PM
Look who's feeling better!  Had a sniff outside for a minute, and later got herself up onto the perch for a nice tuck.

I'm glad she's feeling better!   :)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 02, 2018, 07:53:45 PM
I'm glad she's feeling better!   :)

It didn't last. :(  I had to hand feed Jennie her supper and she only ate half of it.  I asked in the IBD group if this was a sign of nausea and was told yes.

I'll call vet tomorrow to ask about anti-nausea meds. They recommend ondansetron (Zofran). The CBD might help with that as well but I have to start with such a small amount it will take time to help her I think.

EDIT after further discussion it has been decided that cerenia would be a better choice for Jennie. Cerenia has anti-inflammatory and pain relief properties as well as anti-nausea.  And ondansetron can cause constipation.

Jennie only ate a very small amount (hand fed) at bed time. And I need to join them!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 03, 2018, 05:39:27 AM
I had a very poor night fretting about Jennie.  Not that I sleep in the best of times but I worried and worried and worried.  This morning I sent a detailed e mail to the vet (they don't have their own e mail addresses.  I have to send it to a general mail box and ask that it be forwarded to the vet. Very annoying)

I asked for Cerenia (anti nausea) Cyproheptadine (appetite stimulant) and buprenex.

I forgot to mention here that the other night (and last night) or rather very early in the mornings Jennie has vomited up some liquid either before or after her early morning (always largest of the day) bowel movement.  The liquid is clear, not yellow, and the other time it appeared foamy, this time not foamy.

I reiterated to vet that I am not concerned with longevity, only Jennie's comfort.

Jennie ate only a very tiny amount, hand fed, this morning after her gabapentin.  She still acts hungry but won't eat. That also is a sign of nausea. I'm about to offer her some poached breast in broth.....

6:45 EDIT JENNIE ATE THE POACHED CHICKEN BREAST AND BROTH, ALL ON HER OWN.

7:20 EDIT The chicken seems to have settled her stomach and she has just eaten half an ounce of canned food on her own, with a little pork pancreas sprinkled on top for flavor enhancement.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 03, 2018, 11:55:23 AM
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1

I was going to ask if Jennie can take slippery elm bark for the constipation, but it looks like you've already got a plan in place so never mind.  :)  I'm glad she ate the poached chicken and some canned afterwards!

HangInThere
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 03, 2018, 06:25:31 PM
Thanks Pookie, but Jennie can't have SEB.  It makes her poop awful an sticky and she can't get it out and it gets stuck all over her and of course all over the house.

I have read that the CBD can help cats with constipation.  And there is always the lactulose (ugh)

Lots to update but can't do it now.  I've got the drugs and Jennie has had her buprenex, Cerenia, piroxicam and fluids all one after another.  However after all that, she had some more poached chicken and broth which she did have trouble finishing but 2 hours after the Cerenia she ate a whole 0.8 oz serving of canned all by herself.

 She wanted to eat on the bed in the bedroom and the rule is these days, Jennie eats where she wants. Queen Eva has been such a pest to her since she started getting poorly again though that I finally just shut the screen door. Jennie didn't mind a bit, she was happy to have the peace. If I hadn't trusted my own judgment about how Jennie was feeling, I could go by Queen Eva. For the month that Jennie was doing so much better, Queen Eva stopped bugging her so much, but the last 3 days she has made a major pest of herself. I will give Jennie her other half of supper later.

You guys I SWEAR Jennie looked so proud of herself when I opened the screen and saw her sitting over her cleaned dish.  Not a speck left and she nodded at the dish and looked at me all bright eyes, clearly she was saying Look I did it! Aren't you proud?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 03, 2018, 08:04:50 PM
Thanks Pookie, but Jennie can't have SEB.  It makes her poop awful an sticky and she can't get it out and it gets stuck all over her and of course all over the house.

I know one of them had issues with SEB, I just couldn't remember if it was Jennie or Mazy, so thanks for clarifying.

Quote
You guys I SWEAR Jennie looked so proud of herself when I opened the screen and saw her sitting over her cleaned dish.  Not a speck left and she nodded at the dish and looked at me all bright eyes, clearly she was saying Look I did it! Aren't you proud?

AWWWW!!!!!   multistars  multistars   multistars
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 03, 2018, 09:10:33 PM
Jennie has had another proud moment and a cleaned dish.  She's not up to her full amount of daily food, but it looks like the Cerenia is doing the job.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 03, 2018, 10:00:02 PM
 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1

She's not up to her full amount of daily food, but it looks like the Cerenia is doing the job.

At least she's eating again.   fingerscrossed that tomorrow she's back to her full amount.  I'm glad the Cerenia is helping!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 04, 2018, 04:39:06 AM
 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 04, 2018, 05:16:30 AM
Jennie was eager for breakfast!  Not quite doing a song and dance, but here and asking for it, and ate it at her meal spot.

Vet only gave me a week of meds.  I've just sent her an update on Jennie (she asked me to) and in the e mail I asked if I could get 3 weeks worth next time. I worry about the weather being bad and me not being able to get up there.  The CBD oil should be here today. I paid extra for two day shipping.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on December 04, 2018, 06:37:31 AM
That is good news!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on December 04, 2018, 03:34:49 PM
It sounds as though Jennie is feeling more comfortable. :)

I hope that you won't have to go far to get the fresh meds? Has the CBD oil arrived yet?

 HeadButt HeadButt

P S. I made it here. :D
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 04, 2018, 05:34:54 PM
It sounds as though Jennie is feeling more comfortable. :)

I hope that you won't have to go far to get the fresh meds? Has the CBD oil arrived yet?

 HeadButt HeadButt

P S. I made it here. :D

HI!  Hug1 I see that!  No, except for the gabapentin, that I have to go to the specialist for (100 mile drive one way) the vet isn't more than a 10-12 minute drive away, but it's winter and the weather is often bad and it is dark when I get out of work. I don't want to risk not being able to get over there, and run out of meds.

Vet has agreed that when I get the refills I can get a larger quantity.

I try to avoid thinking about any time line going forward but it seems pretty clear that Jennie's illness is progressing fairly rapidly.  The original meds, the gabapentin and piroxicam kept her comfortable for only 4 weeks.

Now we've added heavier duty drugs...but they won't keep her comfortable forever.  I am a firm believer in too soon is better than too late and I have started having The Talk with Jennie.

First talk last night.  I've told her that I will watch her carefully and she is to tell me when she's had enough.  I've also reassured her that I will be fine, she mustn't try to stay strong or hide her suffering for fear of my pain of losing her. That it's Jennie that matters.

I won't dwell on it of course, I do try to keep things cheerful around here, but we'll be having that talk every evening now.

PS as I was typing that Jennie was counter surfing.  YAY!   funny2 funny2

That is good news!

Thanks ThreeStep  HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 04, 2018, 08:13:51 PM
Quote
Vet has agreed that when I get the refills I can get a larger quantity.

 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1

Quote
First talk last night.  I've told her that I will watch her carefully and she is to tell me when she's had enough.  I've also reassured her that I will be fine, she mustn't try to stay strong or hide her suffering for fear of my pain of losing her. That it's Jennie that matters.

I won't dwell on it of course, I do try to keep things cheerful around here, but we'll be having that talk every evening now.

grouphug grouphug grouphug

Quote
PS as I was typing that Jennie was counter surfing.  YAY!   funny2 funny2

multistars
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on December 05, 2018, 04:56:43 AM
HI!  Hug1 I see that!  No, except for the gabapentin, that I have to go to the specialist for (100 mile drive one way) the vet isn't more than a 10-12 minute drive away, but it's winter and the weather is often bad and it is dark when I get out of work. I don't want to risk not being able to get over there, and run out of meds.

Vet has agreed that when I get the refills I can get a larger quantity.

I try to avoid thinking about any time line going forward but it seems pretty clear that Jennie's illness is progressing fairly rapidly.  The original meds, the gabapentin and piroxicam kept her comfortable for only 4 weeks.

Now we've added heavier duty drugs...but they won't keep her comfortable forever.  I am a firm believer in too soon is better than too late and I have started having The Talk with Jennie.

First talk last night.  I've told her that I will watch her carefully and she is to tell me when she's had enough.  I've also reassured her that I will be fine, she mustn't try to stay strong or hide her suffering for fear of my pain of losing her. That it's Jennie that matters.

I won't dwell on it of course, I do try to keep things cheerful around here, but we'll be having that talk every evening now.

PS as I was typing that Jennie was counter surfing.  YAY!   funny2 funny2

Thanks ThreeStep  HeadButt

Urgh, It's that 200 mile round trip which was concerning me . You must be both mentally and physically exhausted as things are, without having to do that.

You're doing absolutely everything possible for Jennie, and I'm sure that she recognises it.

That talk, although painful for you, illustrates the incredibly close relationship you have with Jennie. She will tell you, and you will follow her wishes no matter how much pain it causes you however I hope that it won't be for some time yet.

 Yayy for the counter surfing.Keep it up Jennie.

 HeadButt  HeadButt  HeadButt  Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 05, 2018, 05:47:29 AM
Urgh, It's that 200 mile round trip which was concerning me . You must be both mentally and physically exhausted as things are, without having to do that.

You're doing absolutely everything possible for Jennie, and I'm sure that she recognises it.

That talk, although painful for you, illustrates the incredibly close relationship you have with Jennie. She will tell you, and you will follow her wishes no matter how much pain it causes you however I hope that it won't be for some time yet.

 Yayy for the counter surfing.Keep it up Jennie.

 HeadButt  HeadButt  HeadButt  Hug1

Thanks WG. Well the 200 mile round trip I won't have to do again until the end of January.  I asked them to give me enough for 2-3 months and they gave me about 2 1/2 months worth.

And of course it's my choice to do that.  Jennie didn't tolerate the mail order compound pharmacy's version of the gabapentin.

She had a bad night and I had to give her a dose of bupe this morning. I think I missed with last night's dose but I was afraid to give her more in case I didn't miss.  After the bad night I am pretty sure I missed so I gave it again this morning.  She has her piroxicam tonight so won't need the bupe again until tomorrow.  Hug1 HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on December 05, 2018, 09:36:34 AM
 HangInThere

Jennie couldn't have anyone more receptive to her needs. You're doing a brilliant job. grouphug
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 05, 2018, 11:49:42 AM


Jennie couldn't have anyone more receptive to her needs. You're doing a brilliant job. grouphug

Agree!
Also... did she get a taste of anything good from the counter?  ;)

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 05, 2018, 01:05:01 PM
Thanks All!  love1 love1


Agree!
Also... did she get a taste of anything good from the counter?  ;)



Nope. Jennie trained me long ago with her "anything not nailed down" habits not to leave anything out she could eat. funny2

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 06, 2018, 08:37:04 AM
Nope. Jennie trained me long ago with her "anything not nailed down" habits not to leave anything out she could eat. funny2

Same here.  Cats train us well!
We have a bread drawer with child locks on it.  Cookie jar is almost 50 years old.  It sits on the counter empty.  If we have cookies, they get stored in the bread drawer.  Flour, sugar, etc. canisters are on the counter, but they are also empty.   It is the only way to keep them ON the counters, and not get pushed off onto the floor!
A cat bed is on top of the refrigerator.   Silly7  It is Roxy's go to spot.  May as well use the space as a cat perch.  lol
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 06, 2018, 08:52:46 AM
This is funny, because I didn't really have the problem after I trained them to stay off the kitchen counters (using double-sided tape).

Now, I DID have childproof locks on the lower kitchen cabinets where I stored the dishwasher detergent, etc., and also on the refrigerator and freezer.   :o  Yes, I came home from work one day to find the freezer door wide open!  I suspect one of them was going after the aloe plant that I had on top of the fridge, and jumped from the kitchen counter to the top but somehow kicked the freezer door handle and opened it.  On the one hand, it was funny, but I was also a little freaked thinking, what if one had gotten IN the freezer and the door had closed  . . . so I got the locks and put them on, and started the off-counter training.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 06, 2018, 09:03:10 AM
Quote
Yes, I came home from work one day to find the freezer door wide open!

THAT is really scary! 

As far as training the cats to stay off counters and such... too lazy.  Silly7
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on December 06, 2018, 02:54:48 PM
Nosy was named appropriately and she was one cool kitty in the sense of the word after she got locked in the fridge.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 06, 2018, 03:34:21 PM
Did Jennie's CBD arrive today?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 06, 2018, 03:58:44 PM
This is funny, because I didn't really have the problem after I trained them to stay off the kitchen counters (using double-sided tape).

Now, I DID have childproof locks on the lower kitchen cabinets where I stored the dishwasher detergent, etc., and also on the refrigerator and freezer.   :o  Yes, I came home from work one day to find the freezer door wide open!  I suspect one of them was going after the aloe plant that I had on top of the fridge, and jumped from the kitchen counter to the top but somehow kicked the freezer door handle and opened it.  On the one hand, it was funny, but I was also a little freaked thinking, what if one had gotten IN the freezer and the door had closed  . . . so I got the locks and put them on, and started the off-counter training.

I never had much faith in counter training. :D Cats go where they want when no one is around to tell them they aren't allowed.  Silly7

My friend S kept coming home and finding her freezer door open, she didn't know how Mattie was getting it open.  I suggested velcro and she said yep she'd already done it.  Great minds thing alike haha. I thought of velcro because I have it on my table top freezer door.  Not because of the cats opening it but because one time when it was a bit too full I didn't shut the door properly and it popped open and some meat had to be discarded. Now I swipe the velcro closed, so I know it's always shut tight.

THAT is really scary! 

As far as training the cats to stay off counters and such... too lazy.  Silly7

Me too.   funny2

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 06, 2018, 07:06:56 PM
I never had much faith in counter training. :D Cats go where they want when no one is around to tell them they aren't allowed.  Silly7

Granted, it's not like I had a kitty-cam on to monitor them or anything, but after enough time of getting paws on double-sided tape, plus one time where I was using wide mailing tape (sticky side up) which ended up with Sweetie Girl getting it wrapped all over her and panicking, I'm pretty sure they stayed off.  I had other plants above the kitchen sink.  Before the tape, I would find some regurgitated leaves on the kitchen floor.  Post-tape:  nothing.

My other reason(s) for wanting them to stay off the counters:  my sister told me about someone who left a kitchen knife on the counter and the cat accidentally stabbed itself when it jumped up.  Thankfully the owner found the kitty in time, but while I'm usually pretty good about not leaving stuff like that out, it's possible to forget.  That story scared me.  Plus, I wanted to make sure there was no chance of them accidentally turning on the oven or stove, or getting to those plants.  But that was the only thing I "trained" them to stay away from.  Everything else . . . if they could get on it and wanted to, they were allowed.  Other than the kitchen table, but I didn't use tape for that.  Just a firm "off" and a pointed hand and they jumped down.  After a while they got the message.  But to your point, for all I know they were on it when I wasn't around.

As far as training the cats to stay off counters and such... too lazy.  Silly7

To each his own.   :)

Nosy was named appropriately and she was one cool kitty in the sense of the word after she got locked in the fridge.

 :o   Did Nosy survive?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 06, 2018, 09:45:17 PM
I think it is COOL you took the time to train your cats!  I'm not proud of being lazy. 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 06, 2018, 09:46:08 PM
MC,
Did you get the CBD oil? 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 07, 2018, 05:36:13 AM
You make a good point about safety and counter surfers Pookie.

Yes I picked up the CBD oil yesterday.  I am not sure I will use it for Jennie just yet, if at all.  I'm still just as afraid as I was before, and now that she's got the bupe and Cerenia for pain and nausea control I think I may just keep things the way they are.

Or, since the advice is to start with one drop a day and work up, I supposed I could just start with that one drop a day for now. I do intend to try it myself this weekend, though I could never sustain the dose recommended.  If it can be used as needed (example-for insomnia) it might be helpful to me so I'll find out.

By the way CW refunded me the 2 day shipping fee I paid when I contacted them in a panic about the post office being closed.

Also, a tech at work contacted me about getting the bupe in a larger quantity from a compounding pharmacy. I can get 3 months worth (at twice a day) for $75 (plus shipping) Right now I am paying $10 per dose, so this will be a huge savings for me, especially as Jennie will eventually need it more often. Currently I am only giving it to her once every other day, on the night she doesn't get the piroxicam.

Which reminds me I need to make her next blood work appointment.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on December 07, 2018, 09:42:01 AM
It's great news that you can get Jennie's bupe much cheaper. I know that you would give everything you have to keep her more comfortable but why pay more than you need to.

Having the CBD oil will hopefully give you some peace of mind that it's there should you wish to use it.

-----

Counter training! Yes I've trained MYSELF never to leave anything Dylan can't have access to on the counter. As far as he's concerned EVERYTHING in the house belongs to him.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 07, 2018, 03:41:01 PM
It's great news that you can get Jennie's bupe much cheaper. I know that you would give everything you have to keep her more comfortable but why pay more than you need to.

Having the CBD oil will hopefully give you some peace of mind that it's there should you wish to use it.

Well said!

Quote
Counter training! Yes I've trained MYSELF never to leave anything Dylan can't have access to on the counter. As far as he's concerned EVERYTHING in the house belongs to him.

LOL, true.  My fear was that if I was distracted or tired that I might forget.  And I'm limited on where I can put those plants.  Though bitter apple spray helped!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on December 07, 2018, 05:02:21 PM
Pookie - of course Nosy was fine. Just a bit chilled. She also managed to get into a fold out couch, screamed her little lungs out. I could not get the contraption open and was scared that I might kill her slowly if she gets caught in the springs. There I was with a loaded shotgun in the middle of a rented apartment ready to take the pain away from her when she strolled out. She did live up to her name.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 08, 2018, 05:59:52 AM
Weigh in Saturday  ;D (they hate it, well Jennie doesn't mind)

Jennie is maintaining her weight exactly. She still weighs 8 pounds 8 ounces.

With the addition of the bupe I can have some life, without too much worry.  I've been wracking my brains on ow I can do anything on a Saturday such as have a hike or visit a friend, because her gabapentin schedule is 6 am, 2 pm 10 pm.  there is no way to alter that.  That fits my working day and it has to be.  When managing pain the key is to stay on top of it, because if it gets a grip it's difficult to get rid of even with drugs.

So I worry about being late with Jennie's gab, especially when it's going to be really late.  With the bupe to overlap that won't be such a problem.

For instance today I have a hike with my sister. It's not a long all day hike, but I will not be home at 2 for the gabapentin. In fact I probably won't be home until 3:30 or 4.  So I did delay her gab by 15 minutes last night (10:15) and an additional 15 minutes this morning (6:30) but that still only gives me until 2:30.  However I can give her a bupe dose before I leave at 9:00 and that will hold her over when the gab wears off, until I get home. She's due for bupe tonight too, but she is allowed to have it up to twice a day so that's okay.

Last night I went to pick up the meds and they didn't have the bupe ready (they don't make it up until I get there) and there was an emergency and no one to do it. This of course has really thrown a wrench into my morning because now I have to go get it this morning right when they open. The receptionist said they would make it up last night and put it in the vault but I am not optimistic that they did. I may have to stand there this morning and wait for someone to fil 28 syringes.

However I don't want to wait until Monday, what if we have bad weather?  I can't risk running out.

This is why the mail order will be so convenient, in addition to the cost savings.

PS  If Jennie gets her gab at 4:00 pm, and then I give it again at 10 to get her back on schedule, that's okay too, because she can have it at early as 6 hour apart when needed. I cleared that with the IM vet in the beginning.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 09, 2018, 07:49:28 AM


Also, a tech at work contacted me about getting the bupe in a larger quantity from a compounding pharmacy. I can get 3 months worth (at twice a day) for $75 (plus shipping) Right now I am paying $10 per dose, so this will be a huge savings for me, especially as Jennie will eventually need it more often. Currently I am only giving it to her once every other day, on the night she doesn't get the piroxicam.


What made you decide to experiment with another pharmacy?  Do they compounded medicine exactly the same as the specialist center? 

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 09, 2018, 08:38:50 AM
What made you decide to experiment with another pharmacy?  Do they compounded medicine exactly the same as the specialist center? 



I'm talking about the buprenex now, not the gabapentin. I will continue to get the gabapentin at the specialist's pharmacy (have to drive 100 miles one way every 2 months) and the piroxicam from Wedgewood compounding mail order (the place where I didn't like their gabapentin).

Right now I am getting the buprenex from the Jennie's local vet and it is $10 a syringe and they can't make it up in advance meaning I have to stand there and wait for them to mix it and fill 28 syringes (2 week supply).  This takes a half hour or more, if even someone is available to do it right then (which they weren't on Friday).  And what if we have bad weather and I can't get up to the vet?  The tech found a compounding pharmacy (not the one I used for the "bad" gabapentin and still use for the piroxicam) that can make up the buprenex in larger doses at less cost and ship to me.

Buprenex is a controlled (opioid) substance so there are certain restrictions in getting this drug.  I didn't think I'd be able to get it anywhere but the vet in the way I described, so I am really grateful for the tech finding this place for me.

By the way, my little plan up above worked!  I had a wonderful hike with my sister, got home at 4 pm and Jennie was still comfortable and eager for food.  I spaced her next two gabapentin doses 7 hours apart which got her back on schedule at 6 a.m. this morning, and sure enough she was there punching me in the face to remind me at 5:45.  funny2

Also, she didn't need a second buprenex dose last night.  I thought she might, but she did okay.

She'll be getting fluids today.

PS up in another post I said "the tech at work" but I meant the tech at the vet.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 09, 2018, 09:08:39 AM
My experience with buprenex as always been dental related pretty much.  One syringe with .06 was $6.00.  I thought that was pricey!  You do what you have to do.  I get it.

Glad your Saturday plan worked!   thumbsup1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 09, 2018, 09:48:47 AM
My experience with buprenex as always been dental related pretty much.  One syringe with .06 was $6.00.  I thought that was pricey!  You do what you have to do.  I get it.

Glad your Saturday plan worked!   thumbsup1

Interesting...that's the same price I am paying.  You paid $6 for a 0.06 ml syringe, and I am paying $10 for a 0.1 ml syringe.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 09, 2018, 11:29:14 AM
Interesting...that's the same price I am paying.  You paid $6 for a 0.06 ml syringe, and I am paying $10 for a 0.1 ml syringe.

Maybe there is a standard pricing sheet that all vets use.  Not serious. 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 09, 2018, 07:25:15 PM
This time of year we don't get much sun. And what little we do get...doesn't make it into the house for long.  Jennie found some today though....... (look at her shadow..under the table leg! funny2)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on December 10, 2018, 12:43:10 PM
Sun is a healer and a comforter. I am glad she enjoyed some of it.
All we can do is the best we can do. Hang in there with her. How is the rest of the pride?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on December 10, 2018, 02:17:14 PM
It's great to see Jennie enjoying the sun's rays. I hope that she'll be able to do so for some time to come.

I'm so pleased that you were able to enjoy your hike MC. Fresh air recharges the soul.

Sending hugs as well as gentle strokes for Jennie .xx

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 11, 2018, 01:01:58 PM
Cute picture of Jennie in the sun beam.  Her hair looks good too!  :)
How is she doing today?
Not to drive you nuts, but I am curious... have you decided if you are going to give her the CBD oil?
You also mentioned that YOU would be trying it.  That peaked my interest as well.   ;D
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 12, 2018, 05:34:14 PM
Cute picture of Jennie in the sun beam.  Her hair looks good too!  :)
How is she doing today?
Not to drive you nuts, but I am curious... have you decided if you are going to give her the CBD oil?
You also mentioned that YOU would be trying it.  That peaked my interest as well.   ;D


I am not going to give Jennie the CBD based on my own reaction to the single dose I took.  I didn't care for it at all. Granted I took a full dose of their highest concentration. But no where does it advise you to start slow.

I took it mid afternoon.  I was unable to SHUT MY BRAIN OFF the entire night in bed. And the next day I had icky intestinal issues and felt very dizzy and odd until well into the evening.

The funny part is, it tastes just like pot.  funny2

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on December 13, 2018, 01:58:07 PM
Oh no MC. That's not the desired effect for Jennie.  :'(

How's the gorgeous girl doing today?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 13, 2018, 04:21:09 PM
Oh no MC. That's not the desired effect for Jennie.  :'(

How's the gorgeous girl doing today?

Yeah, it wasn't nice.   It's not going to work for me or Jennie.  I had my doubts all along as you know. Thankfully I can return it for a refund.

Jennie is doing very well thank you! As long as I keep her meds on time she is comfortable and happy and Herself. She is taking the Cerenia nightly, the gabapentin every 8 hours, and so far she is only needing the buprenorphine 24 hours and 38 hours after the piroxicam. The 2nd dose is new, she was only getting it the 24 hours after.  But now I notice by mid afternoon on the second day (just before the piroxicam is due again) she needs a little help.  So I've gone to the evening and the next morning now.

For instance she gets the piroxicam at 5:15 pm (every 48 hours).  The next night she gets the bupe at 5:15 pm instead and then again the next morning around 7:30, before I leave for work.  A little later if it's the weekend.

Her appetite is terrific but she and Queen Eva had some of my baked boneless pork loin chops the other night, well it was the fat trimmings, which they both went crazy over, and Queen Eva handled it okay, but it has made for some really smelly moments for Jennie.  It gave her some gas too, so she won't be getting any more diet variations.

I just ordered her buprenorphine from Road Runner pharmacy though so that is good news. The original place the vet tech tried to hook me up with never followed up.  then when I tried to get on their website my firewall blocked it saying the site wasn't secure.  As I tried to find out more information I came across some very scary reviews about the place messing up dosages and things like that.  So i went with my gut and contacted the tech again and told her I didn't want to use them and could I use Road Runner.

Apparently she had sent me to the first one because the last time they checked Road Runner didn't have the buprenorphine. (there was a shortage a couple years ago I remember) Lucky for me and Jennie, they have it now. A three month supply for $75.00 shipped straight to my post office. (I have to sign for it because it is a controlled substance). Whew.

PS Here they were hoping for more pork trimmings as I sat and enjoyed my supper.  funny2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 13, 2018, 04:45:31 PM
Thanks for the update!  Love the pics -- Jennie looks like she's smiling at you, as if she's thinking "If I smile, maybe she'll give me more."  Queen Eva, on the other hand, looks like she's sending you subliminal messages . . . "You WILL give me more . . . You WILL give me more . . . "

 funny2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 13, 2018, 07:28:26 PM
Sorry the CBD oil didn't work out.  Glad you will be able to return it!
Jennie and Queen Eva staring you down... cute!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on December 14, 2018, 07:28:23 AM
Back to counter surfing:) She must be feeling better.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 14, 2018, 01:06:49 PM
Thanks all! love1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 14, 2018, 01:09:36 PM
 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 16, 2018, 11:07:14 AM
I'm not sure why I am thinking this, but..it seems to me Jennie is now needing the buprenorphine more on a regular basis.  So I've put her on every 24 hours regardless of piroxicam schedule. I don't know if I am just making it up or if it's something subtle she is telling/showing me, but just in case, I am listening.

There isn't anything to lose, giving it to her more often, and if it keeps her pain free that's all that matters.

Other than that you'd never know, looking at her, that she is sick. She's absolutely glowing. Soft shiny coat, bright eyes, having her little play sessions.....

That is ALL that matters.

PS Frequent poops continue, but they are almost all formed and firm now. Not sure which med is doing that.  It's hard to describe what happens when she has to poop.  I think it causes her discomfort but there just isn't anything more I can do about that. I don't think she is straining, exactly......

 She stands in the litter box for many minutes....waiting...then suddenly goes into her pushing position, producing the stool.  She does wait a long time, I am assuming each time, I don't watch her often because she doesn't like being watched, but I do every now and then, just to observe any changes. 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 16, 2018, 04:38:15 PM
Quote
There isn't anything to lose, giving it to her more often, and if it keeps her pain free that's all that matters.

 thumbsup1 thumbsup1

Quote
She's absolutely glowing. Soft shiny coat, bright eyes, having her little play sessions.....

 heartbeatgif
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 16, 2018, 07:32:04 PM
Jennie seems to be having a rough day, pain wise, even with the bupe.

 Appetite is great though. She eats all her canned food at every serving.  In case I never mentioned it Jennie is eating Castor & Pollux Organix chicken, and chicken & liver.  This would be a perfect canned food, if only it didn't have peas and pea protein (split ingredient listing which also is bad :( ).

I don't know if this formula has changed since Purina bought the company or not.  The food is USDA Certified Organic, and more importantly Non-GMO Project Verified.  The Non-GMO Project verification is very difficult to get and I trust it far more than I trust USDA organic certification.

I really detest putting money into the Purina coffers but this is the only canned food in the world that meets my criteria. And like I said, if it weren't for the peas it would be darn near perfect, as far as processed cat food goes.

Ziwi Peak would be a second choice, it's not organic or non-GMO Project certified but it's made in New Zealand with New Zealand sourced ingredients and free range grass fed humanely raised animals and they don't have GMOs over there yet.  However the Ziwi Peak foods contain bone and that seemed to cause Jennie problems, and I certainly wouldn't try bone-in food for Mazy cat.

They use chickpeas, supposedly for a binder. Probably not much better than peas, if at all.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 16, 2018, 10:15:36 PM
Quote
I'm not sure why I am thinking this, but..it seems to me Jennie is now needing the buprenorphine more on a regular basis.  So I've put her on every 24 hours regardless of piroxicam schedule. I don't know if I am just making it up or if it's something subtle she is telling/showing me, but just in case, I am listening.

Yup, go with your gut.   thumbsup1

Quote
I think it causes her discomfort but there just isn't anything more I can do about that. I don't think she is straining, exactly......

 She stands in the litter box for many minutes....waiting...then suddenly goes into her pushing position, producing the stool.  She does wait a long time, I am assuming each time, I don't watch her often because she doesn't like being watched, but I do every now and then, just to observe any changes.

Sounds a bit like constipation to me, but like you said, there's not much you can do about it.  You're giving her the fluids so if anything would make help with the poops, I would think that would.  You're doing everything you can, and it sounds like her quality of life is as good as it could possibly be.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

Quote
I really detest putting money into the Purina coffers but this is the only canned food in the world that meets my criteria.

We do the best we can, and you're doing great!   Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 17, 2018, 12:22:16 PM
Yup, go with your gut.   thumbsup1

Sounds a bit like constipation to me, but like you said, there's not much you can do about it.  You're giving her the fluids so if anything would make help with the poops, I would think that would.  You're doing everything you can, and it sounds like her quality of life is as good as it could possibly be.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

We do the best we can, and you're doing great!   Hug1

Ditto!!!!   Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on December 17, 2018, 01:15:43 PM
You are doing what you can and it seems to be working.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on December 17, 2018, 02:17:58 PM
Please don't beat yourself up MC. You're doing everything humanly possible for Jennie, . . . . . as well as much that many would consider impossible!

Sending hugs , furry headbutts, and much love, across the pond.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 17, 2018, 03:51:53 PM
No it's not constipation, not the way we usually think of it, anyway.  Her cancer is in her colon, so anything passing through has to get past the mass (es).

Her poops are, for the most part normal looking, once she gets them out.  A couple of her litter box trips might result in small mushy pieces, instead of formed, but that is happening less often, almost all are formed, even the tiny ones.

But sometimes she goes down and stands for a long time and produces nothing. She doesn't strain when she does that she just..stands there as described and eventually leaves the box without going into the poop crouch and push.  That of course is the cancer making her feel like she has to go, even when there isn't anything to go.

In her notes the IM vet did mention that she may need lactulose at some point. I hope not, I loathe that stuff and I know Jennie would, too.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 17, 2018, 07:37:40 PM
 HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 18, 2018, 05:35:20 AM
Thanks all.  Meant to mention, Jennie isn't getting the sub q fluids regularly yet.  Just that one time when she wasn't eating, and I have the bag if that happens again.

 She gets a couple tablespoons of water added to each canned meal, that is 8 servings a day so that is an extra at least 16 tbs of water a day. (I just looked it up that is equivalent to 8 oz)

Upping the buprenorphine seems to have done the job, she is clearly feeling much better.  I still don't know what it was that tipped me off she was having pain.

It's funny how subtle cats are. You don't really notice anything WRONG, until you fix it, then you notice how much BETTER she is.

Of course I say something similar to people about diet all the time.  ;)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 18, 2018, 09:10:55 AM
Upping the buprenorphine seems to have done the job, she is clearly feeling much better.  I still don't know what it was that tipped me off she was having pain.

Because you know her.  Whether you're consciously aware of it or not, on some level you're reading her, and you just know.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

I'm glad she's feeling better!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on December 18, 2018, 01:59:00 PM

She is feeling better which in turn makes you feel better.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 19, 2018, 10:43:52 AM
Just thinking about you two...
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 19, 2018, 10:22:57 PM
 HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 21, 2018, 06:32:58 PM
Thanks Lola Hug1. 

You know I look at her and think..this cat can't possibly be ill.  LOOK at her! Even on an all canned diet her coat hasn't lost much, if any, of the quality it had on raw. Maybe a little. Jennie always has had a nice coat. I've had to reduce her food because she keeps gaining weight and the last thing I want is for her to be overweight. Whoever heard of a cat with cancer in danger of gaining weight?

But then there's this....this morning was the downside day of her piroxicam and she hadn't had her bupe yet.  She seemed fine, nothing really noticeable, maybe a bit quiet.  But right before I got in the shower I gave her the bupe.

15 minutes later, back in the kitchen for their final breakfast and she was up and about and doing a song and dance.

And once again I am reminded.....you don't notice them feeling poorly, until they aren't any more.

Well the drugs are keeping her enjoying her life and they arne't affecting her negatively in anyway I can tell, so it's all good.

I still don't have the mail order buprenorphine so I am going to have to buy another week's worth from the vet. They haven't gotten the written prescription yet. It was mailed Monday. Stupid holidays slowing everything down I suppose.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 22, 2018, 10:26:02 AM
Quote
The drugs are keeping her enjoying her life and they arne't affecting her negatively in anyway I can tell, so it's all good.

 thumbsup1 thumbsup1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on December 23, 2018, 07:09:10 AM
Good to hear that she is taking well to your loving treatment. How is the rest of your gang? How are you doing?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 24, 2018, 10:10:00 AM
Good to hear that she is taking well to your loving treatment. How is the rest of your gang? How are you doing?

Thank you!  We're all doing well. I had my annual visit to my friend who lives 2 hours drive away over several mountain passes, which while it's a beautiful drive has become exhausting as I get older.  That was Saturday so yesterday I barely moved, haha. Much to all of the cats' delight.

Now here's yesterday's version of where we spent the afternoon, as you can see there is always some variation in who takes which bed. 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 24, 2018, 10:11:43 AM
This second picture was taken later in the evening. I had wanted to lie down and take a nap but the couch was still occupied as shown above. Only that little space in the middle with the pink blanket for me.

So I went to bed instead.  It was chilly in the bedroom and I didn't want to un-make the bed so I came back out in the living room to get the afghan from the back of the couch. And this is what they did when they saw me reach for it.

And not to leave you in suspense..when I woke from my nap over an hour later, as you might have guessed, they were ALL in there with me.  funny2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 24, 2018, 10:17:21 AM
And not to leave you in suspense..when I woke from my nap over an hour later, as you might have guessed, they were ALL in there with me.  funny2

They were keeping you warm!   funny2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 24, 2018, 10:45:32 AM
Cute pics! Glad you ALL go in a nap.  :)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 24, 2018, 11:20:06 AM
Thanks you guys. Incidentally they had all been up and away from those beds at least twice between the two shots.  Funny how they kept going back to the same spot for the day.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on December 24, 2018, 02:42:02 PM
Furry mini heaters:>)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 25, 2018, 03:07:15 PM
 Jennie seems to be entering yet another transition in her illness. She's starting to show some signs of trouble with constipation. That could be the buprenorphine, I realize. When she does pass stool it's shaped full sized stool most of the time, so I can't imagine the tumors are causing a blockage. I think it's more likely they make her feel a need to go more often than she really needs to, and she is spending more unproductive time in the litter box. Not straining at all. Just...waiting. Whereas she used to produce small amounts during those sessions, now she isn't. Just her one big one around 5:30 a.m. every morning. Also, her pain seems a bit worse, and the nausea seems to have showed up again. All this only 3 weeks since her last transition. Still no weight loss, all this only just started yesterday.

I can increase the cerenia so that's okay and she is not yet on the top dose for buprenorphine either. I do hope she can continue with the piroxicam, I am sure it has helped with the inflammation and discomfort. Her next blood work is 2 weeks away, January 7th, but she shows no signs of kidney issues. Her pee is normal amounts for the amount of water she is getting in her food and at normal frequency and she has not been seen near the water bowl.

I wanted to include much more detail than that and may write it up with the details later. Just too lazy right now.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 26, 2018, 05:46:44 AM
To flesh out the details of the above post...on Christmas Eve Jennie was showing a lot of discomfort.  She kept going downstairs and sitting in the litter box.  Not straining, not producing anything.  She crouched around the house and even in sleep I could tell she wasn't comfortable.

I gave her a buprenorphine dose, which she was due for in about half an hour (so I gave it a little early) (well, she's still on the Simbidol while I wait for the compounding pharmacy) which did take effect within a few minutes to stop the painful looking crouch, and she began to rest much easier.

She hadn't had her usual poops so I was pretty sure it was constipation causing her trouble.  The only poop she had had all day was some dry crumbly bits in the morning, plus another dry one full of fur. Neither are usual for her.

When she began refusing to eat except hand fed I realized nausea was also affecting her so I gave her the cerenia dose early.  She's only on 6 mg not the 12 mg vet prescribed so there is room for upping the dose if she shows more signs of nausea.  Giving her the Cerenia early seemed to help with the nausea. Oh wait that was yesterday, Tuesday, the rest of this is about Monday.

However there was still no poop and still frequent trips down to the litter box so I made an executive decision to give her some mineral oil late Monday afternoon. 

The mineral oil did the trick I think, she had a more productive day with poop yesterday and was clearly more comfortable all day.

1st picture was right before I gave her the buprenex. 2nd picture was 25 minutes later.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 26, 2018, 08:57:32 PM
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes   Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on December 29, 2018, 08:16:27 AM
It's so strange to see her seemingly so well, but needing the pain meds more often. Stool quality has improved greatly, due to the piroxicam no doubt. I need to formulate an update to the vet but every day brings something different and I want to keep it short so she'll read it.

This morning after breakfast I observed Jennie in her bed. At first glance she seemed okay but when I looked closer I could tell she was holding herself very carefully, not relaxed at all.  Then I realized she was overdue for the bupe.  Doh1

10 minutes after the bupe.... (Incidentally she knows the bupe helps her and accepts it gladly even, lifting her head and opening her mouth with no help from me, and I just squirt it under her tongue.)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on December 29, 2018, 10:57:58 PM
grouphug grouphug grouphug

I'm glad you recognized how she was feeling and were able to make her feel better!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on December 30, 2018, 09:33:25 PM
 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 01, 2019, 09:08:48 AM
I am not happy with the Road Runner pharmacy compounded buprenorphine.  Jennie isn't having the same ..."absence of pain relaxation reaction" she has with the Simbadol from the vet.  She's had two doses of it now and what I am seeing is something different...she seems a bit agitated, can't rest...never closes her eyes, never lies relaxed in her bed.

The dose is different because of the compounding. 0.15 ml as opposed to 0.1 ml. The tech did tell me when we first discussed it that if it seemed too high I could reduce it. I am hoping this reaction is just that, too high of a dose making her like this, and the lower dose will give her the relief without this weird too-awake reaction.

I gave her a dose yesterday morning 7 a.m. on schedule and was disappointed that she didn't seem to be all relaxed like she usually is, before I went off to work.  As it turned out I am sick and had to come home from work and spent yesterday in bed, Jennie in my arms.  She stayed with me, but was very restless, did not lie quietly, never closed her eyes, and did not invite tummy rubs.

I HOPE it is just too high a dose, and that it is controlling her pain, I coudln't tell about the pain because of all the other weird stuff.  Because if it doesn't control her pain I will have to go back to the Simbadol, and just go into debt to pay for it I guess.

Today, this evening,  she will be getting the compounded buprenorphine it again, at a lower dose.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 01, 2019, 03:37:45 PM
Desperately hoping that the lower dose of bupe. leaves Jennie more relaxed as well as pain free.

Sending hugs across the pond.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 01, 2019, 09:56:12 PM
Desperately hoping that the lower dose of bupe. leaves Jennie more relaxed as well as pain free.

Same here.   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed  Also sending hugs, but from this side of the pond.   :)

 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 grouphug
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 02, 2019, 05:55:39 AM
The lower dose was better but she she was still way too stoned. I mean, it's clear she was having no pain, but still she never closes her eyes, it's very distressing, for me, though she didn't seem distressed herself..  And her respiration rate gets very high too, not sure what that's about as supposedly the side effect is that it may reduce respiration.

This morning I just gave 0.05 though I won't be home to watch her after the half hour mark.

The pic and video are five hours after the 0.1 dose yesterday

https://youtu.be/MUvwXsD2FCQ
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 02, 2019, 09:07:31 AM
HangInThere GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 02, 2019, 12:26:00 PM
6 hours after the 0.05 dose she started showing signs of pain.  Not as doped up but didn't last as long.  But she still doesn't close her eyes. I gave her another 0.05, but after this I guess I will have to stick to the 0.1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 02, 2019, 02:26:07 PM
 :(  grouphug

When will you run out of this version and be able to get the version that was better (and sadly, more expensive)?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 03, 2019, 05:52:51 AM
The compounded version will last 3 months or more.  I imagine the vet would be willing to continue to fill it for me if Jennie really can't tolerate the RR version, but I need to try, really how can I support $600 a month ($10 a syringe x 2 syringes a day), if I can make this work?  And that's only the one med, remember she takes 3 other meds that cost a total of $150 a month.  I don't like to moan about money, but there is only so much in the paycheck.

The 0.05 dose seems to do okay. It doesn't last as long but her maximum dose of the compounded buprenorphine is 0.3 ml a day (0.15 every 12 hours).  0.05 every six hours works out to be the same total, just less of a wallop on her system, but still controlling the pain, I think.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 03, 2019, 07:19:47 PM
Maybe I've found the magic dose for the compounded buprenorphine.  Tonight I gave her 0.75 ml and she seems to be very comfortable without being stoned. For now I think this dose every 12 hours will be good. 

Another thing to consider is that it also gives me leeway to increase the dose if she needs it later on. She'll only be getting 1/2 the maximum daily dose right now.

 Jennie learned early on to associate the little squirt of bupe with feeling better, because it's so quick I think. When she sees me coming with it she sits up and lifts her chin and waits for it.  I squirt it right onto her gum under her tongue and she stays still and lets me.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 04, 2019, 05:53:39 AM
How about a couple of pics 1) last night.  This is where I move Jennie, bed and all, when I am ready for the couch myself (every night). She usually purrs very loud and stays there in the chair for about 15 minutes before joining me on the couch.  She appears totally relaxed here and is all open and had just allowed a nice tummy rub petting session.  However there is one sign of stress...look at her tail. She tucks her tail like that when she is feeling vulnerable.

This morning as I sat here with my coffee I heard the familiar sound of Queen Eva on her Table (she doesn't use it as a table though, she just likes to perch on it, chase her tail on it and use it as a bouncy launch to the top of the washing machine)

 I wasn't paying attention then I turned to look and lo and behold it is Jennie on the Table!  She's never gotten on it before.  (She is still there 10 minutes later)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 04, 2019, 09:48:54 AM
Maybe I've found the magic dose for the compounded buprenorphine.  Tonight I gave her 0.75 ml and she seems to be very comfortable without being stoned. For now I think this dose every 12 hours will be good. 

Another thing to consider is that it also gives me leeway to increase the dose if she needs it later on. She'll only be getting 1/2 the maximum daily dose right now.

Hoping you've found the magic dose  fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed

So many times I've thought Jennie looks like she's smiling at you in those pics.  Too cute!   :)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 04, 2019, 10:03:39 AM
 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 04, 2019, 06:56:43 PM
Hoping you've found the magic dose  fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed

So many times I've thought Jennie looks like she's smiling at you in those pics.  Too cute!   :)

Jennie is a smiley cat!

Regarding the never closing her eyes, she is clearly sleeping with her eyes open, and I think that started (in retrospect) before I was using the compounded buprenorphine, I think it started with the Simbodol brand.

I remember noticing, even a while back that she was having little specks of dust or bits of fur stuck on her eye surfaces, and eye boogies in the corners every day.  Her eyes must be getting dried out, from being open even when she sleeps. I'm going to ask the vet on Monday if there are any kind of lubricating eye drops I can give her.

EDIT: I've been given a couple of suggestions..GenTeal (human drops said to be safe for pets) and idrops made for pets.

The idrops have a sterile preservative free version that I like better.  Reviews say it's hard to squeeze the drops out though. That wold be a problem for me. Any opinions?

Edit again..I've looked at so many eye drops now my own eyes are buggy.  the idrop vet gel ones still seem to be the winner. I think I'll go ahead and order them, because it will take maybe a week to get them and hope the vet approves them on Monday.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 04, 2019, 08:33:37 PM
EDIT: I've been given a couple of suggestions..GenTeal (human drops said to be safe for pets) and idrops made for pets.

The idrops have a sterile preservative free version that I like better.  Reviews say it's hard to squeeze the drops out though. That wold be a problem for me. Any opinions?

Not a clue, sorry.   :(  I won't have a chance to research it for a couple days, either.   :(
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 04, 2019, 09:23:06 PM
I ordered the idrops vet gel.  Just hope I can get the drops to squeeze out.  If they feel good she may be patient enough to accept them without too much trouble.

Quote
Not a clue, sorry

Well it was opinions on if you thought sleeping with her eyes open is why she's getting stuff stick on her eye balls and eye boogies, and if lubricating would help a cat sleeping with her eyes open I also wanted. :)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 05, 2019, 07:50:58 AM
From what I have read over the years, it isn't that uncommon for cats to sleep with their eyes open.  Although it is yucky... IMO!  Anyway... if needed or not, eye drops can't be a bad thing. 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 05, 2019, 07:55:50 AM
From what I have read over the years, it isn't that uncommon for cats to sleep with their eyes open.  Although it is yucky... IMO!  Anyway... if needed or not, eye drops can't be a bad thing. 

Thanks Lola, Tolly slept with his eyes open often, he was on phenobarbital all his life. It never occurred to me to worry about dry eyes with him. He couldn't tolerate ANYTHING in his eyes anyway.  He also had the herpes virus, though in his later years he rarely had a flare. The L-lysine controlled the virus.

Speaking of the vet I wrote a letter updating her on Jennie a week ago, and thought I would post it here, it gives a summary of updates on Jennie.  She asked me to keep her updated, and I did try to keep it short but ...ha.

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 05, 2019, 08:06:48 AM
Here's the letter (update to this forum in red): It's too long will have to post it in two parts

Hi Dr G, (and Dr B, too) I've been meaning to give you an update but each day seems to bring something different. Jennie's appointment with you is January 7.  I know you are especially interested in the effects of the piroxicam, so I'll start with that.

After 6 weeks on the piroxicam I began to see some changes in Jennie's stool quality.  There were fewer small mushy bits, fewer BMs all together. Now at the 8 week mark it really does appear that there has been some decrease in the inflammation in her bowel.  She is, generally speaking,  going 3 times a day (down from 5) with her largest amount in the early morning.  I am now seeing even less, twice a day even, but some days still seeing the mushy little bits

Almost all stool is formed and, in appearance, normal and firm.  When pressed on I find them still soft, but not as soft as before. And even firmer now.  And there are traces of blood still, but much less than previously.. Very little odor most of the time. Once in a while there is a very smelly episode but as her diet has no variation I do not know what causes those. Once in a while I might find those little mushy bits instead of a formed piece, but not often.

Her routine is the same, she gets into the box and stands still for a long time before starting to push the stool out.  She isn't appearing to be straining when she stands there, she's just....waiting. After waiting like that for sometimes over 5 minutes, she then goes into her crouch and passes her stool.

Her largest BM is in the early morning, about 7 1/2 hours after her last meal.  This stool is always the average size of what you would expect from a canned fed cat (that doesn't contain a lot of filler, just those annoying peas!), and is the stool most likely to contain fur.  Later in the morning she will pass another medium sized formed piece or two smaller pieces (if it's going to be mushy bits this is usually the one it will be).  Later in the evening she goes once more, again a medium or small piece, usually formed.  Last few days she's been skipping the midday poop, and one day she only pooped once, the early morning one.

Previously there were two more episodes in the litter box and they were almost always small mushy bits, often smelly.  Those are gone now. Am I right in thinking the stool size can be a determination of how much room she still has in there, and these improvements indicate the reduction of inflammation in her tumors?

She did have a day of what I thought was going to be the start of trouble with constipation. It was over the Christmas holiday and I was home a lot. She had a few dry crumbly bits which was very unusual for her and then a large stool full of fur, so it may have been fur built up causing it.  But she spent the day visiting the litter box often, and unproductively.  I went down one time to check on her and she was just sitting in there.  Not straining, or pushing, not her usual standing stance either,  just sitting. She was also reluctant to eat that day and I gave her fluids to keep her kidneys flushed.

I gave her a little mineral oil that evening. The next day she had her normal early morning largest poop, and all went back to normal from then on. There has been no more trouble like that.

Regarding the mineral oil, as you know, (Internal Medicine vet) indicated Jennie may need help in the future and recommended lactulose.  If you would agree,  I would rather use mineral oil, if and when we come to that point.  I know how to give it without it causing interference of nutrient or medicine absorption.  And she takes it in food, so there's no danger of aspiration. I really would rather not use the lactulose. What do you think?

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 05, 2019, 08:06:58 AM
Next Jennie's pain.  Her pain level does seem to be increasing.  It's so strange to look at this cat apparently glowing with health, but the difference between right before a buprenorphine dose is due and 10 minutes after is like night and day. She still has the gabapentin every 8 hours, and the piroxicam every 48 hours but is needing the bupe every 12 hours now as well.  At first I was trying to keep her at the lowest dose possible, but I just don't see any point in leaving her in discomfort, so I'm just giving it to her every 12 hours now. She is on the Cerenia as prescribed.

I'll give her the details about the compounded version at the visit.

Her appetite is pure Jennie.  She's always been an eager eater and with the exception of that one day, over Christmas with the constipation, she is ready to eat at all times.  Doing her Song and Dance and all!  I am concerned about weight gain so have been gradually reducing her quantity. When I first started her back on canned I wasn't sure how much she would need and was feeding 5.5 ounces a day. I didn't expect a cat with cancer needing to be worried about weight gain!  She's down to 4.85 ounces a day now.

Her weight this morning (12/30) was 8 lbs 9 ounces (Salter baby scale),  same as last week, so hopefully I can keep her at 4.85 ounces a day. And one week later, weight exactly the same again 8 lbs 9 oz I don't want her having food anxiety on top of everything else. My concern is if the weight gain is caused by too much food, or is there fluid built up or the tumor(s) growing? (Would tumors add much body weight?)  I don't feel her ribs getting prominent, so I do think it's too much food, but I'll be glad to have your assessment. Our appointment with you and for her blood draw kidney check is next Monday, the 7th at 5:40.

 I remember that when Jennie was on a canned diet, before going raw, she did tend to gain weight and I had to feed her very small amounts, She was only getting 3.5 ounces a day then, which was difficult for her with her food anxiety.  That anxiety problem went away mostly with the raw diet, and while she does have a good appetite I am not seeing that same worry over food, with the amount of canned she's getting now.

Her pee habits are consistent with the amount of water she is getting in her canned food.  I have the fluids, but haven't used them except twice when she was off her food. She accepts a couple of tablespoons of water in each serving of her canned food, so with 8 servings, she is getting about 8 ounces extra of water a day. She never goes near the water bowls.

She also gets the broth from poached chicken breast, I forgot to mention that. I poach the breasts in water for a long time, and the resulting broth is a lovely aspic when cold.  Just like bone broth I freeze in ice cube trays for individual portions.  The meat is frozen separately so I can use that as a treat or added to the broth.

Another concern is she seems a bit lumpy on her underside.  Dr B will be aware Jennie has always had that lumpy spot low on her abdomen, but lately she feels lumpy all over underneath.  I'm not sure if it's only because I am used to her having thick fur there, thinking back I can't remember if I felt those lumps when she was first shaved 2 months ago. That I never recorded lumps though, makes me think they weren't there then, because I usually write things like that down.

There is one lump when she is lying on her right side, near her ribs that seems to slide around. I mean when my fingers find it, I can actually push it around under the skin. I can't always find it.  Need to remember to mention that.

She shows no discomfort when having her tummy rubbed, in fact as always she invites it, and even accepts and encourages deep massage there. When I do this, her tummy is almost never gassy. I know the tumor is in her colon, but I'm thinking that if it begins grow in a way to cause blockage problems, along with changes in her bowel habits I might notice suddenly having gas in her tummy?

Since starting the compounded buprenorphine her stomach has started making gurgling noises.  I still don't feel any gas bubbles on massaging, and the bupe isn't ingested it is absorbed through the mucus membranes in the mouth so I don;t know what that is all about.

Just one more thing I wanted to mention.  I never asked to see the ultrasound, but I am assuming UVS sent those records to you so you know exactly what we are dealing with here.  I wonder sometimes if I should have looked at them, to help me have some understanding about how things will progress but I am still reluctant. I don't plan to put Jennie through another ultrasound to check progress, so I suppose there isn't any point to me looking at them now, I worry it will just cause me more anxiety.   When we come in next week, I'd like your opinion (and Dr Br's too, if she has anything to add) on how things are going, as far as progression of the disease, based on the ultrasound from 10/26, her original symptoms and my updates to you, and of course your examination when we come in.. I know I've been kind of skirting around that particular subject, but she's doing so well,I think I'm ready to talk about it now. (subject to change!)

So she has a good information basis for the check up and I have a couple more questions to ask her in addition to the ones in the letter including about the eye drops.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 06, 2019, 11:37:58 AM
Wonder if anyone actually read all that lol

I just did something clever.  I sat down and figured out the exact dosage (exact mgs of drug) Jennie will get per dose per bupe med.

It took some time to make my brain know what to do.  I tried to get help with some calculations sites but they weren't doing the calculation I needed.

I did finally solve it and found out that the Simbadol was delivering .03 mg per dose of the actual active pain medication.

In the compounded version, at the 1.5 ml dose she was getting .075 mg which is at the high end of the range, and too high for Jennie as we already know.  At .05 ml of course she was only getting .025 mg.  BUT at .75 ml (the dose I figured out before doing all this mind bending) is delivering .0375! Which as you can see is the closest amount to the Simbadol (.03), that is effective, I mean. 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 06, 2019, 11:43:49 AM
Wonder if anyone actually read all that lol

I just did something clever.  I sat down and figured out the exact dosage (exact mgs of drug) Jennie will get per dose per bupe med.

It took some time to make my brain know what to do.  I tried to get help with some calculations sites but they weren't doing the calculation I needed.

I did finally solve it and found out that the Simbadol was delivering .03 mg per dose of the actual active pain medication.

In the compounded version, at the 1.5 ml dose she was getting .075 mg which is at the high end of the range, and too high for Jennie as we already know.  At .05 ml of course she was only getting .025 mg.  BUT at .75 ml (the dose I figured out before doing all this mind bending) is delivering .0375! Which as you can see is the closest amount to the Simbadol (.03), that is effective, I mean. 

I know your posts are often notes for yourself.  I skimmed... except for the words in red.

As far as your math calculations... I'll take your word for it.  ;)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 06, 2019, 01:12:04 PM
I know your posts are often notes for yourself.  I skimmed... except for the words in red.

What Lola said.   :)

Congrats on the mind-bending math!   thumbsup1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 06, 2019, 01:16:10 PM
I know your posts are often notes for yourself.  I skimmed... except for the words in red.


That's why I did that.  Most of it wasn't new information to you guys anyway, just put in a summary manner. Yes for myslf as much as for my vet.
Quote

As far as your math calculations... I'll take your word for it.  ;)

Yeah. I get really confused by percentages.  After I figured it all out I thought..well of course. But the next time I am faced with something like this it will be the same mind bending struggle all over again.

Wait....I did write out my formula though, scratch that.  :)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 06, 2019, 01:22:11 PM
Wait....I did write out my formula though, scratch that.  :)

 thumbsup1    DrLisaPiersonWorthy
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 06, 2019, 02:28:08 PM

Wait....I did write out my formula though, scratch that.  :)

Just to be safe....Print it out! 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 06, 2019, 02:38:26 PM
I haven't checked your maths, shame on me ( as a one time maths teacher ) but I have read all the details.

Good luck with the visit tomorrow. XX
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 07, 2019, 06:08:49 AM
Just to be safe....Print it out! 


It's not on the computer, it's hand written.  IN the cat journal.

thumbsup1    DrLisaPiersonWorthy


 Hug1 Hug1

I haven't checked your maths, shame on me ( as a one time maths teacher ) but I have read all the details.

Good luck with the visit tomorrow. XX

Thank you! I did it right.  The funny thing is how it took me such a round about way to do it, when after I finished I realized how simple it really was. How I dread taking Jennie out in the cold and dark tonight.  But, if all is well, it will be her last visit until spring, so that's a good thing.

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 07, 2019, 12:58:01 PM
Hope the vet visit went well today!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 07, 2019, 03:23:04 PM
Thanks Lola, it isn't until 5:40 tonight.  I hate having to take her out in the cold and dark. Please be thinking of us! xx
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 07, 2019, 05:02:41 PM
 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed

Hoping all goes well with the vet visit as well as the travel to and from the vet!   Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 07, 2019, 06:12:50 PM
I knew it was in the evening, but wasn't sure if I would make it back to the forum later. 
I'm guessing driving in the cold and dark isn't something you like to do... in general?  For some reason, I think of you out and about during daytime hours only. 
Anyway.... I WILL be thinking of you two. Be safe!!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 07, 2019, 06:26:21 PM
We're back safe and sound.  The bad weather started before we left the vet so the drive home was slow and noisy (sleet or ice hitting the car, really loud!)

KIDNEYS ARE STILL PERFECT.

Of course I do realize that kidney failure doesn't show up until 75% of the kidney function is gone, but still, no variation at all since last check.

Lots more to tell, but can't do it now.

Thank you so much for thinking of us. It really helps.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 07, 2019, 06:46:47 PM
 thumbsup1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 07, 2019, 10:01:27 PM
I'm glad you made it back safely!

KIDNEYS ARE STILL PERFECT.

Of course I do realize that kidney failure doesn't show up until 75% of the kidney function is gone, but still, no variation at all since last check.

multistars multistars multistars  thumbsup1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 08, 2019, 02:40:19 AM
EXCELLENT NEWS!!!!!!!!

xxxxxx
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 08, 2019, 05:12:12 AM
Thanks you guys! I left my notes in the car but I think I remember everything. There is only one thing I didn't think to ask about.  Jennie, with all the pooping, is getting a bit smelly.  I clean her up, but it isn't eliminating the smell, both in her hind end area and her face (from washing her hind end area)

I've been using plain water, don't want to risk anything toxic, she is a dedicated washer.  I don't like the idea of pet wipes, I worry they may contain something toxic. I did wash her bottom with a little soap, then try to rinse her well but I worry about getting all the soap rinsed off. I need a mini spray hose of some kind for gentle rinsing.  Hmm...something I could hook up to the sink faucet?

Lumpy underside- vet agrees she is lumpier.  She called them fatty lumps and doesn't know why, but perhaps a loss of muscle tone.

Open eyes - she feels that using a lubricant in Jennie's eyes won't hurt and may make her more comfortable and any of the products I am looking at would be appropriate.  I still like the idrops vet gel and have already ordered it.  She said that might be a bit of overkill, since it's for severe dry eye but it won't hurt her, so if I like the ingredients in that one to go ahead and use it.

Mineral oil (if/when constipation becomes an issue) over lactulose.  She doesn't like lactulose either but would prefer I use miralax rather than mineral oil. Her concern is with the interference with nutrient absorption.

The increased respiration is very concerning.  Jennie is breathing at over 40 breaths per minute (I've been documenting) Since buprenorphine depresses respiration, this is even more of a concern. 

Her first thought (and mine as well though I hadn't voiced it) was that the cancer had metastasized to her lungs. She took a chest x ray and lungs (and heart) appear fine.

 She also did a CBC and her white blood cell count is up.  She wondered if Jennie is developing a chest infection, but she does not have an elevated temperature (poor Jennie she was already in her carrier to go home, when we decided to take her out and check her temp). Or any other signs of infection.  She isn't coughing, or sneezing. She's not mouth breathing or pannting, just her sides go in and out heavily and her breaths are more than 40 per minute.  Normal for a cat is 20-30.

I last checked respiration in all 3 cats in August and Jennie was 29 breaths per minute.

I am to watch her and if it gets any higher vet wants to put her on antibiotics.

Jennie has to go back in two weeks for a re-check on the CBC. If the WBC is down okay, if it is still elevated or climbing, vet wants to put her on antibiotics.

I am just looking up the piroxicam and gabapentin and cerenia to see if the side effects of any of those might cause the fast breathing. (it's not loud, just fast with her sides going in and out)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 08, 2019, 03:00:33 PM
Great news that the chest x ray was fine, hopefully that will give you some reassurance.

 I'm sorry that I can't suggest any reason for the elevated respiration rate. Do you notice any change in the rate in relation to when you give meds?

You're doing a brilliant job. No one could do more for Jennie's quality of life than you are.

xx
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 08, 2019, 03:54:02 PM
Great news that the chest x ray was fine, hopefully that will give you some reassurance.

 I'm sorry that I can't suggest any reason for the elevated respiration rate. Do you notice any change in the rate in relation to when you give meds?

You're doing a brilliant job. No one could do more for Jennie's quality of life than you are.

xx

Only just starting to watch for something like this, thanks WG. xxxx  I'm not good are wording searches and cannot find the information I am looking for regarding if the cerenia, gabapentin or piroxicam might cause accelerated respiration. The search results are not answering my question, I mean.

So far on one "side effect list" I did see that labored breathing could be a sign of an allergic reaction to the piroxicam in conjunction with hives. But I would think if that was what this was it would worsen. 

And I wouldn't call this labored breathing, I would call it faster than normal

Or maybe I would I don't know

Hopefully the vet is doing some looking too, she may have access to more information than I do.

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 08, 2019, 04:56:55 PM
I have no doubt, between you, Woodland Girl, and vet... you all will figure things out!  ;)

However, I HAVE to ask about this sentence...

Quote
I last checked respiration in all 3 cats in August and Jennie was 29 breaths per minute.

Is this something you have always done?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: ThreeStep on January 08, 2019, 06:16:05 PM
Thinking of you.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 08, 2019, 06:49:15 PM
Tonight she is 20 BPM. I've checked three times.  She's had her piroxicam and cerenia. 


I have no doubt, between you, Woodland Girl, and vet... you all will figure things out!  ;)

However, I HAVE to ask about this sentence...

Is this something you have always done?


I never thought of it before Tolly.  But I don't know if you remember, with all the fluid he was retaining from his cancer, there was a real danger his lungs would collapse and I had to keep a close eye on his breathing.  Since I was watching his, of course I checked everyone else's too. Since then every now and then I think of it and check them again. Mazy cat and Queen Eva have always been consistent and Jennie was too until recently. But I don't know for sure when I first noticed it. I think I've been noticing it longer than I may realize, but it just wasn't making an impression.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 08, 2019, 06:49:55 PM
Thinking of you.

 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 09, 2019, 11:43:31 AM
I didn't watch my human kids, as closely as you watch your cats!  (I probably shouldn't have wrote that in a public thread.)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 09, 2019, 11:51:59 AM
I didn't watch my human kids, as closely as you watch your cats!  (I probably shouldn't have wrote that in a public thread.)

You might have been joking, but I just had to say:  if you had watched your kids so closely that you knew their breathing rate, you might have been considered a stalker more than a parent.  Besides, kids can tell you what's wrong (physically) better than cats can.

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 09, 2019, 03:30:59 PM
I didn't watch my human kids, as closely as you watch your cats!  (I probably shouldn't have wrote that in a public thread.)

It's not like I do it every week. Silly7

 Once or twice a year maybe. It's just good to get a baseline on what's nomral for them, then if something changes you can refer back and know that something might be wrong. No different than getting annual check ups and starting blood work when they turn 9 or 10.


You might have been joking, but I just had to say:  if you had watched your kids so closely that you knew their breathing rate, you might have been considered a stalker more than a parent.  Besides, kids can tell you what's wrong (physically) better than cats can.



Exactly this

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 10, 2019, 12:57:46 PM
It's not like I do it every week. Silly7

 Once or twice a year maybe. It's just good to get a baseline on what's nomral for them, then if something changes you can refer back and know that something might be wrong. No different than getting annual check ups and starting blood work when they turn 9 or 10.



Makes sense!  thumbsup1

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 13, 2019, 06:27:23 PM
Jennie's breathing has been normal every time I've checked for the past few days. Eyes are almost closed when sleeping.  Still open a tiny bit, but not wide like before.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 14, 2019, 08:10:12 PM
 dancingbanana
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 14, 2019, 10:23:50 PM
multistars
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 15, 2019, 01:27:10 PM
 kittyball  love1 CheerLeader1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 15, 2019, 04:20:40 PM
Thanks all. Today I took a reading right home from work, no recent meds, and she was up to 40 BPM again.

Also I had to get the miralax.  I think I mentioned the vet doesn't want me to use mineral oil. She is concerned about nutrient absorption interference.  I just discovered today that lactulose now comes in a powdered form to be added to food, so I might try that, but tonight she is getting 1/4 tsp of miralax.

I am worried it will bulk her stool which would not be good.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 15, 2019, 09:40:59 PM
 fingerscrossed that the miralax does the trick without overdoing it.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 16, 2019, 05:17:12 AM
I'm really unhappy about using the miralax. It's so harsh. I gave her a dose last night and I've just given  her another this morning.  She's gone from 5 times a day, to 3 to now just these hard crumbly bits...and it all happened so fast.

I just can't stand for her to be uncomfortable, you know?

I have e mailed vet to ask about the powdered lactulose.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 16, 2019, 01:12:21 PM
I'm really unhappy about using the miralax. It's so harsh. I gave her a dose last night and I've just given  her another this morning.  She's gone from 5 times a day, to 3 to now just these hard crumbly bits...and it all happened so fast.

I just can't stand for her to be uncomfortable, you know?

I have e mailed vet to ask about the powdered lactulose.

Don't give her so much maybe.  ??
We give one cat an 1/8tsp once a day. 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 16, 2019, 01:22:11 PM
Don't give her so much maybe.  ??
We give one cat an 1/8tsp once a day. 

Thanks Lola, I thought there was someone here who uses miralax so I am glad to hear your input.

I am only just starting it, so "so much" isn't an issue, I don't even know how she will react to it or what dose will work for her.  Recommended dose from the vet is 1/4 tsp twice a day.  Remember that Jennie needs this because of a tumor or tumors growing in her colon, not your run of the mill constipation issue..

My concern is her comfort.  Will it cause a lot of cramping?  Nausea?  I don't know.

She's gone off her food a little bit, not eating as much and that started before I started the miralx, I figured it was because she isn't passing the stool.

I came home to a nomral sized stool in the box, one end was hard and crumbly like the little bit she had yesterday, and the other end was soft and squishy. So the two doses of mirlax have helped her, but she looks uncomfortable, and did not finish her lunch.

I'm going to up her Cerenia to the prescribed dose starting tonight.

I struggle with not allowing msyelf to look too far ahead. Just take it one meal at a time.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 16, 2019, 04:55:39 PM
I don't know how to get through this.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 16, 2019, 10:00:48 PM
grouphug grouphug grouphug


I wish I had some advice or . . . some way of helping.  Sending lots of hugs, purrs and good vibes to you and Jennie Jennie.

grouphug  Hug1 CatPurr GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 17, 2019, 05:00:46 AM
Jennie has swollen feet. Her left paw is huge and her right is almost as big.  What the heck has caused this? The miralax?  She shows no signs of discomfort in her feet and has been jumping up and down from the washer multiple times. She is very hungry this morning (yesterday didn't want to eat much) Is it a reaction to the miralax?  I can't find anything on line.

Is it caused by straining? She did have more poop this morning but I know there is a lot more to be moved out.  I don't know.  I've got to get her in to see the vet this morning though I did feed her.

I've just measured them, because I am worried they are stil growing.  The left is 2 inches wide and the right is about 1 1/2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 17, 2019, 08:02:27 AM
Jennie has swollen feet. Her left paw is huge and her right is almost as big.  What the heck has caused this? The miralax?  She shows no signs of discomfort in her feet and has been jumping up and down from the washer multiple times. She is very hungry this morning (yesterday didn't want to eat much) Is it a reaction to the miralax?  I can't find anything on line.

Is it caused by straining? She did have more poop this morning but I know there is a lot more to be moved out.  I don't know.  I've got to get her in to see the vet this morning though I did feed her.

I've just measured them, because I am worried they are stil growing.  The left is 2 inches wide and the right is about 1 1/2

Okay we're on our way to the vet in a few minutes.  I went into work a little early since there wasn't any more I could do here and called from there (I had called the answering service to ask them to let the vet know I would be calling) Finally got through to the vet (they didn't take the service off until 8:15!)

Jennie's paws are still giant sized, but haven't gotten any bigger, and in fact might be a fraction of an inch smaller, the 2 inches one does measure just a line under 2 inches now.

I used the ladies room at work and could see in the mirror that I was actually visibly shaking.  My face/head even was trembling. I am so scared for her. Even though she shows no signs of discomfort at all!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 17, 2019, 10:26:35 AM
 :(  grouphug

I have no idea if it's related to the Miralax, but it's sounds like she's retaining water and it's accumulating in her paws.  Crossing paws that the vet gives you some answers.   fingerscrossed

EDIT:  I did a search for "can Miralax cause edema" (edema is swelling) and found this (for humans):

https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-17116/miralax-oral/details/list-sideeffects  -- Look under "Rare side effects"

Quote
RARE side effects
If experienced, these tend to have a Severe expression

Abnormal Heart Rhythm
Atrial Fibrillation
Fast Heartbeat
Feeling Faint
Fluid Retention In The Legs, Feet, Arms Or Hands
High Blood Pressure
Imbalance In Body Salts Like Potassium And Sodium
Insufficient Blood Supply To The Colon
Involuntary Quivering
Kidney Disease With Reduction In Kidney Function
Life Threatening Allergic Reaction
Puffy Face From Water Retention
Rash
Seizures
Trouble Breathing
Ulceration Of Colon

 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 grouphug
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 17, 2019, 01:10:19 PM
Holy cow Pookie thank you for this!  I am sending it right to the vet.

I am home for lunch right now and her paws have gone down a bit.  The biggest one is now 1 1/2 inches and the other is 1 1/4 inches.

I'll have to update on what the vet said later but the general coneseus was the lymphatic system is affected.

However I had my doubts given the timing after just starting the miralax..

PS I'm glad you posted the pertinent part.  The link won't load for me.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 17, 2019, 03:26:09 PM
How are things now MC ? Willing you the strength to cope and sending much love. xx

 HeadButt  HeadButt HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 17, 2019, 04:12:26 PM
Thank you so much WG.  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1!  Her paws have gone down a tiny bit more. The left one is now 1 1/4 inch, the right is just over 1 inch.

Pookie the website opens for me now.

The vet will write a prescription for the kristalose (powder lactulose). However if Jennie needs help again, until I get the powder, I will use mineral oil.

Jennie and I were at the vet almost 2 hours.  they took blood, did x rays, took blood pressure, very thorough, and vet consulted with two other vets in the practice. The general opinion was either infection of the lymphatic system (high WBC still) or the cancer has metastasized into the lymphatic system (which will likely happen eventually). If it was metastasized, the paws would not being foing down, they would just keep growing, so I think we can rule that out for now.  I'm going to go ahead with the antibiotics because of the high WBC.

Vet wants her to take Orbax antibiotic for one week, then retest WBC.

I'm exhausted.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 17, 2019, 05:28:41 PM
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes grouphug  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 18, 2019, 04:48:36 AM
Jennie's paws are still puffy.  The right one is back up to 1 1/2 inches, the left one (which was the biggest at 2 inches yesterday) is just over one inch.  Her back paws are also now affected. (I didn't measure them but they are puffy) and last night she had a bump under her right eye but that is gone this morning.

She is normal in every other respect. I might give her fluids tonight to help flush out her system, just in case it IS the miralax just taking a long time to leave her system.  If it's infection, the antibiotics may help.  If it's lymphatic metastasis, then this is the beginning of the end.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 18, 2019, 05:44:18 AM
 HangInThere 


  Hug1  Hug1  Hug1

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 18, 2019, 12:37:50 PM
 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 18, 2019, 12:47:57 PM
Home for lunch. Jennie's front paws are the same, the left (which was the fattest at 2 full inches yesterday) is just over one inch, and the right remains at 1 1/2 inches.  Her hind paws are very puffy, but I haven't measured them as she doesn't like them touched.  I don't think they hurt her, I think she just doesn't like her rear paws touched. She's like that with nail trims, too.

The lump on her face was very obvious last night, and it was a hard lump, it is not there any more. Visually the right side of her face still seems a bit puffier than the left, but I can't really tell, I think it's all normal.  She has no problem with me stroking her face in any spot.

She did a little song and dance while waiting for her lunch and ate most of it before asking for enhancement. She did stop and ask for a little sprinkle of something to finish.  She can have anything she wants.

Now I must go have my mammogram and ultrasound. ha.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 18, 2019, 02:20:30 PM
What a fun-filled day you are having!  Silly7

HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 18, 2019, 06:26:39 PM
No change in her feet since last post.

What a fun-filled day you are having!  Silly7

HeadButt

yeah lol
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 18, 2019, 07:21:14 PM
The lump under her right eye from last night has appeared under her left eye tonight. It wasn't there an hour ago. I have no idea if this is a 'normal' progression of lymphatic disease.  I can only trust by her behavior that she feels okay, and really, that's all that matters, right?

I have pictures, will post them over the weekend.  I have pics of her feet at their biggest too but it's hard to tell how big they are.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 19, 2019, 05:56:36 AM
Left front paw appears normal. Right paw still at 1 1/2 inch. 

Right hind paw appears normal. Left hind paw still puffy.

Face bump is gone but face still looks a little puffy though I can find no bumps or swellings and she is happy to have any part of her face touched or rubbed.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 19, 2019, 09:25:22 AM
 Hug1  Hug1  Hug1

If there is an infection those ab's will take a while to kick in. You know this of course but I just wanted to draw your attention to the general trend. I could be wrong but it sounds to me as though the situation with swelling may be improving. It s definitely doesn't sound as though it is getting worse.

Sending chin rubs to Jennie, Jennie as well as hugs to you MC.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 19, 2019, 09:35:40 PM
I could be wrong but it sounds to me as though the situation with swelling may be improving. It s definitely doesn't sound as though it is getting worse.

I would agree, it sounds like the swelling is getting better.

HangInThere  grouphug  HeadButt  Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 20, 2019, 08:19:36 AM
Jennie's face is all normal this morning.  Her right front paw is still puffy.  Her hind paws also do seem to be a bit puffy.

Her appetite has gone off, most likely from the Orbax antibiotic.  I am still managing to coax all her meals into her but it is a lot of work and I won't be able to keep it up during the work week.  I think I am going to have to give her fluids today or maybe tomorrow.  I don't like to give them with those swellings still in her feet.

She still needs help softening her stool.  I am afraid to give her the miralax.  I gave her mineral oil in the middle of the night so it wouldn't interfere with any of her medications.  This helped her pass some stool that was soft, but it was small and bloody. More blood than I've seen in a long time.

I can tell she doesn't feel good, and I am pretty sure it's the antibiotic, she's had 3 doses now.  Only 4 more to go.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 21, 2019, 08:05:46 AM
Jennie's paws appear to be all back to normal. No more bumps or swellings on her face.

I've written to the vet this morning to ask about getting the lactulose powder from Wedgewood pharmacy, where I get Jennie's piroxicam. I told her I am afraid to use the miralax again, and have been using mineral oil (she doesn't want me to use it but I have t use something)

She went more than 24 hours without passing any stool, though she did sit in the litter box a few times, which really was worrying me until finally this morning she had a "normal" sized formed poop.  Firm outside runny in the middle, no discernible blood!

So I am relieved the mineral oil is helping, but getting up in the middle of the night to dose it isn't much fun (she takes it in food)

On weekends I can fit in a dose during the day too, but I won't be able to manage that during the work week, so, again, we need the lactulose.

Still needs coaxing and enhancements to eat. I am using pork pancreas glandular powder, egg yolk lecithin, Whole Life freeze dried chicken breast and Forti Flora in rotation for enhancements. The forti flora is a last resort.

Today was supposed to be her follow up blood work, but of course because of the emergency last Thursday she now goes back on Thursday instead.  I am glad because it is minus 7 F  (wind chill minus 21) I would hate to have to take her out.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 21, 2019, 01:48:29 PM
Here's another new thing.  Jennie got very upset with nail trim time.  It's not because of the puffy paw thing (which by the way, I think the right front paw and the left hind foot, are still a tiny bit puffy) because it started the last time I trimmed, a couple of weeks ago.

 Usually she sits docilely in my arms, purring as she anticipates the treats after, though she does turn her head and look away as if she can't bear to watch.

But the last two times (including today) she fusses, pulls away and meows loudly and grumble/growls as if I am hurting her.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 21, 2019, 06:35:33 PM
Jennie's powdered lactulose has been ordered.

By the way vet called tonight.  She said if I become concerned about Jennie's appetite to skip a dose of the antibiotic, go 36 hours instead of 24. I might try that tomorrow, but that means I would have to reschedule her appointment to redo the blood work. Which would be fine with me.

She also feels that based on my descriptions of Jennie's edema/swellings that she is sure this is to do with her lymphatic system, not the miralax. The coming and going of it is typical of lymphatic issues.  My sister said that too.  However I am STILL afraid to give her any more miralax.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 21, 2019, 09:48:27 PM
 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 22, 2019, 06:24:09 AM
Having a cat who WANTS to eat but can't is absolutely soul destroying.

I got out the baby food this morning. Beechnut chicken and broth. Nothing else in it.  She ate some.

I'm going to skip her antibiotic tonight.

I do have appetite stimulant but I don't want to use it when I'm not here to keep an eye on her reactions. Maybe tonight. She will also have to ahve fluids, to protect her kidneys since she isn't getting enough liquid when not eating.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 22, 2019, 10:46:57 AM
I'm pretty sure that you will have already considered every technique possible to entice Jennie to eat but , in case you haven't . . . .I used to be able to entice Eric to eat by placing morsels of food , one at a time, under his nose . It would take hours but at least he ate something.

Sending huge hugs, and much love.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 22, 2019, 03:37:12 PM
 HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 22, 2019, 04:22:41 PM
I'm pretty sure that you will have already considered every technique possible to entice Jennie to eat but , in case you haven't . . . .I used to be able to entice Eric to eat by placing morsels of food , one at a time, under his nose . It would take hours but at least he ate something.

Sending huge hugs, and much love.

Thank you, Hug1 Hug1 yes hand feeding whenever she will take something.  I can't leave anything for her of course, because of the other cats.

I am afraid to use the mirtazapine.

I am afraid to give her any more miralax.

I'm skipping the antibiotic tonight.

I will give her sub q.

EDIT  6:30 pm The other day I discovered I had some cyproheptadine (another appetite stimulant) prescribed for Mazy cat 2 1/2 years ago.  I decided to use that instead.

it must taste terrible, she was looked betrayed when I gave it to her. Half an hour later she ate! about half an ounce of baby food plus about half her uneaten lunch  (so about .5 oz canned)

Next she has to have sub q fluids (poor Jennie!) and her buprenorphine.  Last will be the gabapentin at bed time.

Tomorrow morning we'll get back to the Orbax, there's only 2 left.

EDIT 7:30 pm  Jennie is feeling much better. She had her fluids and took them like the lamb she is. She must have been dehydrated because I could tell even before we were done that she felt better.  She then had her little Game. Then she had her buprenorphine.  THEN she came into the kitchen with tail up looking for food. She has eaten 2 small meals (0.5 oz each) without incentives or coaxing.

I won't try to meet her daily quota, I'm just happy to see her eat with enjoyment.
 
Final Edit 8:47 She's a bit hyper on the cyproheptadine and a bit wobbly, too. If there is a next time I will only give her 1/4 tablet (the dose as prescribed is 1/2 of a 4 mg tablet)

 goingtobed CatHug cat3 cat4
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 22, 2019, 09:46:02 PM
So glad she's feeling better and eating a bit!  multistars multistars multistars

You are doing a PAWSOME job!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 22, 2019, 10:39:17 PM
Hope you BOTH get some rest.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 23, 2019, 05:22:02 AM
You're doing an amazing job.

Jennie will be comforted just by your presence.

 Hug1  Hug1  Hug1

Dylan sends  HeadButt  HeadButt  HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 23, 2019, 06:21:59 AM
Thanks WG.  The main issue now is Jennie has not pooped in more than 25 hours.  She has gone from 5 times a day to 3 times a day to nothing.  I checked the status of the lactulose order, it hasn't even been prepared yet let alone shipped..

So I've had to increase the mineral oil, and just risk reduced nutrient absorption for now.  Dumb me, gave her some this morning before giving her buprenorphine, so now I have to wait to give her the pain med, otherwise it won't be absorbed either.

I have a little extra time this morning, because of a dr appointment before I go to work, so I can give it to her before I leave.  But her antibiotic will have to wait until lunch now.

Vet did say I could delay it 12-18 hours, so it's going to be 18 hours.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 23, 2019, 08:13:55 AM
Maybe I'm confusing it with something else, but I thought the buprenorphine gets squirted in the mouth and absorbed through the mucus membranes and not the digestive tract?  Is that something different?  Sorry if that's a stupid question.

HangInThere   Hug1


p.s.  I hope your appointment goes well!   fingerscrossed
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 23, 2019, 01:18:01 PM
Maybe I'm confusing it with something else, but I thought the buprenorphine gets squirted in the mouth and absorbed through the mucus membranes and not the digestive tract?  Is that something different?  Sorry if that's a stupid question.

HangInThere   Hug1


p.s.  I hope your appointment goes well!   fingerscrossed

Yes the buprenorphine goes into the mouth only, I squirt it onto her gums under her tongue.  But she eats the mineral oil in a little food, so the mineral oil will be in her mouth, too.

She was still eating this morning, now I realize it was a remnant from the appetite stimulant the cypro. She is not eating now.  She did have some poop, though not a lot.

I'll give her cypro again tonight but only 1/4 pill. It's written at 1/2 pill every 12 hours but I don't want to give it to her and then not be here to feed her as much as she wants. And 1/2 half made her a bit frantic.

She feels a bit swollen around the middle I think.  Like Tolly.

But she WANTS to eat.  She just can't.  It's shattering. It's possible the mineral oil is causing her to feel yukcy, too, but she has to have some help pooping. I am afraid to use the miralax again.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 23, 2019, 01:51:04 PM
 grouphug
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 23, 2019, 01:52:01 PM
I have nothing to add... but do like to check in on your updates.   HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 23, 2019, 01:54:32 PM
Yes the buprenorphine goes into the mouth only, I squirt it onto her gums under her tongue.  But she eats the mineral oil in a little food, so the mineral oil will be in her mouth, too.

Good point.  I didn't think of that.  :(  Can it be given before feeding?  I don't remember anymore ...

The only thing I can think of that might help with the pooping is magnesium, but I'm not sure of a source (other than bone broth, which would also have calcium) that you could give, assuming you were comfortable doing that.  And too much magnesium might cause diarrhea.

Quote
She feels a bit swollen around the middle I think.  Like Tolly.

But she WANTS to eat.  She just can't.  It's shattering. It's possible the mineral oil is causing her to feel yukcy, too, but she has to have some help pooping. I am afraid to use the miralax again.

 :( GoodVibes grouphug
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 23, 2019, 03:30:06 PM
Quote
Can it be given before feeding?  I don't remember anymore ...

Yes.  I simply forgot to do it that way. I don't normally give mineral oil in the morning like that.  But I was desperate.

She is swelling up around the middle. She is still acting fine in herself, not great but not suffering, except hungry and can't eat but I have just given her 1/4 cypro so she should be able to eat soon.

I meant to measure her around earlier so I would have a comparison but I kept forgetting to do it.  Now I don't have a "normal" circumference for her but she is 17 inches around just now.  And has gained one and a half ounces. That could be poop I suppose, maybe I am imagining the rounder middle.

She should show weight loss, because of the reduced intake, so that is probably more like a 3 or 4 ounce gain (from fluid)

I am not talking about sub q fluid, just to clarify.  That has all been absorbed long since.  I won't give her fluids tonight.

I may have to take her in on an emergency basis tomorrow. I'm not taking her out tonight it's a miserable night.

Preparing for the worst.  As if one ever can.

Edit 5:16 pm The cypro has taken effect and she is eating, but not with the frantic-ness of yesterday.  I like this better.

When I said she seems okay in herself, I should clarify.  I can tell she doesn't feel good.  But not an emergency. And the cypro has her eating a little.

Edit 6:42
pm.  Jennie is doing okay. She's even had her Game, she asked for it herself. And she's hanging out in the living room watching Mazy cat and Queen Eva have their Games.

It's warmer tonight and I opened up the porch and went out and sat for a few minutes, Jennie was the first one out! With tail up!  Mazy cat came out for a few minutes, and Queen Eva for about 5 seconds.

I looked at the journal from the time Tolly got sick.   His normal weight was about 9 pounds.  I didn't have a base circumference on him either, but he was a slender cat. He weighed more than Jennie, but he was bigger boned, taller, longer.  Jennie's healthy weight has always been 8 lbs 9 ounces, but she looks much bigger than she really is (healthy Jennie I mean) 

When I measured Tolly, 13 days before he left us, he was 17 inches around and had gained a full pound, in spite of his dwindling appetite.

Jennie has always had a round tummy so she will have a wider circumference to start. So maybe she's not carrying as much (any?) fluid as I thought. All I can do now is track if she gets wider and monitor her weight.

We're about to start supper.  They eat first.

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 23, 2019, 10:08:01 PM
grouphug  Hug1 grouphug  Hug1 grouphug  Hug1 grouphug
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 24, 2019, 05:26:03 AM
1/4 cypro again this morning. The smaller dose isn't quite as effective getting her to eat but doesn't cause the restlessness and agitation.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 24, 2019, 07:36:24 AM
 Hug1  HeadButt Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 24, 2019, 04:59:02 PM
I feel so low.  I can't stand for her not to feel good. I can't do any more for her than I am already doing.  She hasn't pooped since yesterday morning.  She isn't vomiting and she ate some lunch at lunch time all by herself, a half ounce.

She ate about .25 ounce with her Piroxicam tonight, and has just had her cypro. How much longer do I give her to wait to see if she poops? If not by tomorrow morning, call the vet? Her vet is off on Fridays, but of course there are other vets in the practice, including the one she used to see before I switched her for the vet with the evening hours.

She perks up after fluids, but if she is starting to fill up like Tolly did fluids would be dangerous. I measured her again, she's still at 17 inches. I haven't weighed her again yet, I want to leave her alone for a while, I've been doing this and that to her since I got home. She has one Orbax left. I'm not going to give it to her tonight. Maybe in the morning.

I don't think it's pain, at least I hope not.  With all her pain meds. I  can't STAND to see her feeling so bad.

EDIT 6:32  After I wrote all that I got up to start their supper and she jumped down from her bed and trotted into the kitchen asking for food. And has eaten half an ounce so fat.  That's the cypro working.  But whatever it takes to help her feel better. She's a tiny bit wobblythough.  That could be low potassium but the CBC didn't show any issues there. And she's not walking on her hocks.  Just looks a bit wobbly.

Goodness she just jumped up onto the washer and to the counter scrounging for more food.  Okay crises over haha!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 24, 2019, 05:56:00 PM
GoodVibes grouphug

I feel so low.  I can't stand for her not to feel good. I can't do any more for her than I am already doing.  She hasn't pooped since yesterday morning.  She isn't vomiting and she ate some lunch at lunch time all by herself, a half ounce.

It's hard for me to figure out, but has she been eating less than normal over the last few days?  If so, she may not have as much to poop, therefore not need to poop as much/often.  Just tossing that out there . . .

 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 24, 2019, 06:00:04 PM
Yes she is eating less, but not that much less, about 3 ounces compared to her usual 4.8 ounces. But remember she was pooping 5 times a day. Then 3 times a day.

She's NOT blocked, because she wouldn't be able to eat if she were, or if she did eat she would puke it back up.

She does smell of poop.

Did you see my edit?  :)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 25, 2019, 04:44:08 AM
If it's any help to know; since being on the lactulose Dylan is pooping much less frequently than he was before. He's just gone 6 days between poops  and the stool produced was soft, too soft. Maybe Jennie has completely emptied her system so that it will take some time to get enough poop to expel.

Sending love across the pond.xx
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 25, 2019, 05:41:01 AM
If it's any help to know; since being on the lactulose Dylan is pooping much less frequently than he was before. He's just gone 6 days between poops  and the stool produced was soft, too soft. Maybe Jennie has completely emptied her system so that it will take some time to get enough poop to expel.

Sending love across the pond.xx

Thank you WG! It helps to hear of your experiences. 6 days is a lot, even for a raw fed! But Jennie is canned fed and has a growing tumor in her colon besides.  And was going 3-5 times a day! Anyway I can feel the poop now when I deep massage her. And it's hard as rocks. And she smells of poop.  And she is straining in the box.

I've just e mailed my boss to let her know that at some point during the work day I am going to have to leave and take Jennie to the vet. They don't open until 8, so I can't know when until after I get to work and call.  Jennie's vet isn't there today, but my usual vet (who has treated Jennie all her life until recently) is.

If they want to do an enema I can leave her there ( :'( ) and go pick her up later which will at least reduce the time I am away from work. But I can't worry about work Jennie has to take priority.

I can't let this go any longer. She must be so uncomfortable.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 25, 2019, 10:46:59 AM
Yes, I saw the edit.   thumbsup1

 fingerscrossed that the vet is able to help today!   Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 25, 2019, 01:08:47 PM
Just a quick one.  Jennie saw her old vet. X ray shows the stool is built up behind the colon, not in the colon yet, which is why the stool softener is needed, which no one ever explained to me before, and while mineral oil (and probably miralax) won't work.

Jennie is now on lactulose. She took her first syringe of it like the lamb she is and didn't seem to mind the taste at all, in fact seemed to even like it. Of course I got it down her as quickly as I could. Hopefully she's not too full in there that the stool softener won't be able to get to work and help her move that lot, it's a lot of poop up in there.

I can tell she feels very poorly right now, and hasn't wanted to eat but I can't give her a cypro right before I go back to work so she wil have to miss another meal.

No fluid build up (the roundness of her is being caused by gas) becuase of the poop accumulating) so I can give her sbu q too.

I feel a lot better, but I will feel even more better when she starts moving all that poop out.

I feel so bad I really failed her on this lactulose issue.  Lesson learned, at least TRY what the vets are telling you to do, first. (except when it domes to diet haha) If I'd followed the IM vet's directions, she never would have been this uncomfortable and I would be about $300 richer.

Ootay hated the lactulose so much and would fight me tooth and nail, all 6 pounds of her, and gag and get it all over herself and me and everywhere. That's what I was trying to avoid putting Jennie through. But she just took it like a lamb.

Back to work I go
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 25, 2019, 02:00:51 PM

You didn't fail her. You used your judgement from a previous scenario.

Jennie trusts you implicitly, and for good reason.

Praying that the lactulose will do it's job. I told you that the poop hadn't reached the point of needing to come out yet.  ;)

 Hug1  Hug1  Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 25, 2019, 04:45:45 PM
You didn't fail her. You used your judgement from a previous scenario.

Jennie trusts you implicitly, and for good reason.

Praying that the lactulose will do it's job. I told you that the poop hadn't reached the point of needing to come out yet.  ;)

 Hug1  Hug1  Hug1

Thank you WG! kissyou But yes, the poop is past the time of needing to come out. It can't because it isn't quite soft enough to make it's way past the tumor. There is a LOT of poop parked in her intestinal tract.

Jennie is still pretty immobile and feeling miserable.  I've given her fluids and another dose of lactulose.  Next she's going to have her Cerenia and her cypro and I've got some nice chicken breast and broth (not bone broth just the broth made form poaching the chicken breast) thawing for her first meal since early this morning.

She did get up from the bed she was in after the fluids and I was happy to see her moving around but she asked to be let into the cupboard.  Traditionally that cupboard spot inst a "sick spot" for her, it's just a place she likes to go now and then,  but I wish now I hadn't let her crawl back in there, it's going to be difficult to get her out if she doesn't come out on her own.

PS Jennie's WBC is still elevated.

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 25, 2019, 04:52:43 PM
Thanks for the update.   fingerscrossed that the lactulose kicks in quickly.  I think the IV fluids will help as well.

 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 26, 2019, 04:46:22 AM
How are things this morning , MC ?

Sorry  :-[, I've just realised that, with any luck, you'll still have a few hours sleep to go.

 Hug1  Hug1  Hug1  HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 26, 2019, 06:20:08 AM
How are things this morning , MC ?

Sorry  :-[, I've just realised that, with any luck, you'll still have a few hours sleep to go.

 Hug1  Hug1  Hug1  HeadButt

Haha! Well Queen Eva has her check up this morning, early, so I didn't get to sleep in much, though I did go back to bed for a little while after getting up to medicate Jennie.

Jennie is about the same, she passed a little bit of stool over night, I suspect that was the stool that we saw in her colon in the x ray.  However this morning in bed while I was massaging her I no longer felt that big wad of poop higher up so I'm hoping that means it's on the move!

She doesn't want to eat, but I forgot to give her the cypro when I got up to give her the gabapentin in the wee hours, and I don't want to give it right before I am about the leave the house with Queen Eva. It takes about an hour to kick in. It would be awful for her to have that med kick in just when there isn't me here to feed her.

The lactulose is making her very crampy, and she is accepting a lot of massage.  I am hoping, once she gets that lot out, she won't need the cypro any more.

She vacillates between appearing very depressed, and purring and looking cozy.  I expect it depends on if she's having cramp or not. When she is on my lap she gets very upset when I have to get up.

Queen Eva is going to be the unhappy one in a few minutes!  funny2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 26, 2019, 07:50:40 AM
.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 26, 2019, 08:25:52 AM
Please pray for poop for Jennie.  If she can't pass that poop past the tumor into the colon, there won't be anything else to do for her. Please, pray for this for her.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 26, 2019, 09:37:35 AM
Lola, I wish this forum had the facility to " like" a post. I just adore your saying about the eight hours sleep!!!!

Desperately hoping and praying that the lactulose will soften that poop for Jennie.

 Poor Queen Eva , how could you facilitate a vet pushing a thermometer where vets push thermometers, MC ? ;)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 26, 2019, 10:03:03 AM
Lola, I wish this forum had the facility to " like" a post. I just adore your saying about the eight hours sleep!!!!

Desperately hoping and praying that the lactulose will soften that poop for Jennie.

 Poor Queen Eva , how could you facilitate a vet pushing a thermometer where vets push thermometers, MC ? ;)

The "like"  and "dislike" options were removed long ago. :)

Thank you dearest WG.  I've got to get out and run errands.  Sitting here sobbing isn't doing anyone any good. I just wanted to muster up the prayers and vibes everywhere I can think of.  Miracles do happen, and if her little body can only get that poop moving, she will feel so much better.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 26, 2019, 01:54:01 PM
I have made sure to find out what vet is on call, and how they cover.  The on call clinic is a place I've been a few times for emergencies.  After their regular hours they cover 24 hours, with the answering service calling the vet. They are 40 minutes away.

I won't let Jennie suffer.  If I think she is I won't hesitate, even though it means bringing her to a stranger. So far she is staying out in the living room with us.  I've been in and out with errands and she hasn't moved but is alert and responsive. She will take no food.  She did lick a little coconut oil off my finger.  Someone suggested the action of licking can stimulate the peristaltic action so that's what I tried. .

If the stool softener doesn't work, it means she is completely blocked, so I have to be prepared to take action if I think she is suffering.

I suppose since there isn't any more room, until she passes that lot, it's just as well she won't eat. However I will have to syringe her some food when it's time for her piroxicam. That cannot be given without food.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 26, 2019, 03:11:39 PM
The white of her eyes is showing in her right eye.. Does anyone know what that might mean? NOT her third eye lid and that is the only thing that comes up when I try to search. I'm talking about the sclera, the white part. Well I went to take a picture of it and when she moved her eyes it stopped showing. It peeks out and back in. I just don't want her to suffer.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 26, 2019, 03:58:10 PM
A little update. While doing my shopping today I gave in to the desire for comfort food and snagged a bag of Fritos. Just now I deliberately sat next to Jennie on the couch and started munching away and lo and behold up came her nose and her precious little face following! She practically climbed into the bag. I gave her a tiny piece, then another. She asked for one more crumb before she curled back up in her bed next to me.A healthy Jennie would have mugged me for the whole bag, but I'll take what I can get. She's showing interest and that's what is important.This is known in some circles as Love and Cheese Danish. (love and whatever they want).

Then:

Oh Oh here she comes! Up and moving around. She's not done yet!,

(pause while I took care of Jennie) more....

Then:

It looks like the Fritos started something! Jennie came into the kitchen and asked for something to eat. I took advantage of her willingness and once I was sure she was going to eat enough, I slipped her piroxicam capsule into her. She's having some chicken and broth, first hand fed, but I wasn't going fast enough so she jumped down and went to her meal spot and asked to have her dish placed in front of her. I gave her about 0.15 oz and after she ate that I gave her another quarter ounce (chicken and broth)

EDIT 8:11 pm Jennie has had another half ounce (after a few more bits of fritos) Who knew Fritos were an appetie stimulant haha!

I can n longer feel the grat pile of poop high up near her ribs.  So the lactulose is working. The stool is softening.  Can it get through, to the colon is what we need to know.

Since Jennie is eating....maybe that means it is moving.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 26, 2019, 07:47:28 PM
 HeadButt

Keep doing what works for you and the kitties!
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 26, 2019, 08:46:46 PM
Sending hugs, purrs, headbonks and LOTS of GoodVibes and purrayers that the poop works it's way through, out, and to the litter box.

 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes

 HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt

 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1

Quote
EDIT 8:11 pm Jennie has had another half ounce (after a few more bits of fritos) Who knew Fritos were an appetie stimulant haha!

  funny2  Maybe you should keep a small bag around for a while, just in case . . .  Silly7
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 26, 2019, 08:49:21 PM
Lola, I wish this forum had the facility to " like" a post. I just adore your saying about the eight hours sleep!!!!

Some other options are to post  thumbsup1 or one of the other emojis like  funny2

 :)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 26, 2019, 08:56:28 PM
By the way Queen Eva has to have ointment put in her ears every night for the next 10 days. Yeast and cocci infections in both ears. That's from her rolling in the litter box habit. Ick.

Jennie had about 50 cc sub q fluids tonight.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 26, 2019, 09:05:58 PM
By the way Queen Eva has to have ointment put in her ears every night for the next 10 days. Yeast and cocci infections in both ears. That's from her rolling in the litter box habit. Ick.

I bet Her Royal Highness will be thrilled.   Silly7  Good luck!

Jennie had about 50 cc sub q fluids tonight.

 thumbsup1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 26, 2019, 09:47:07 PM
POOP!!!! WE HAVE POOP!!! An inch long three sectioned piece, fully formed. Soft enough to smush, but not runny. A little blood (which is quite usual) No straining, she was down there no more than a minute or two. Long enough for a pee and it looks like this poop just dropped out with the pee, judging by the way it was sitting on top. This stool is entirely different from the hard bits passed this morning, but of course I can't be certain that it isn't still poop that was already in the colon. But..it certainly brings renewed hope.

I bet Her Royal Highness will be thrilled.   Silly7  Good luck!

 thumbsup1

Queen Eva was royally pissed off. But I think the ointment made her ears feel better so, since she's a smart cat, she may make the connection and maybe (ha) stop making so much noise about it when time goes on. But she's always been a drama queen.  A LOUD one..
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 26, 2019, 10:10:21 PM
POOP!!!! WE HAVE POOP!!! An inch long three sectioned piece, fully formed. Soft enough to smush, but not runny. A little blood (which is quite usual) No straining, she was down there no more than a minute or two. Long enough for a pee and it looks like this poop just dropped out with the pee, judging by the way it was sitting on top. This stool is entirely different from the hard bits passed this morning, but of course I can't be certain that it isn't still poop that was already in the colon. But..it certainly brings renewed hope.

multistars multistars multistars multistars  tiggerbounce coolgif2 CheerLeader1 CheerLeader1 CheerLeader1 CheerLeader1 CheerLeader1 dance1 dancingbanana BanWooHoo bananamiddlechild woohoogif happydance1 yaygif

Quote
Queen Eva was royally pissed off. But I think the ointment made her ears feel better so, since she's a smart cat, she may make the connection and maybe (ha) stop making so much noise about it when time goes on. But she's always been a drama queen.  A LOUD one..

Puns intended?   funny2  funny2
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 26, 2019, 10:49:53 PM
POOP!!!! WE HAVE POOP!!!

Maybe the corn chips did double duty.   Silly7
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 27, 2019, 05:00:14 AM
multistars multistars multistars multistars  tiggerbounce coolgif2 CheerLeader1 CheerLeader1 CheerLeader1 CheerLeader1 CheerLeader1 dance1 dancingbanana BanWooHoo bananamiddlechild woohoogif happydance1 yaygif

Puns intended?   funny2  funny2

Can I second this ?
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 27, 2019, 05:56:59 AM
Can I second this ?

Yep,  though there hasn't been any more yet even when Jennie got up in the middle of the night for a big pee. :'(
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 27, 2019, 05:57:50 AM
Maybe the corn chips did double duty.   Silly7


lol except...what???
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 27, 2019, 09:43:31 AM
Stil no more poop but lookit this! After I rudely awakened Jennie to administer her lactulose, she got out of bed, came out and had a good scratch at her favorite scratcher (yay!) then went to her personal Play Spot and had a little Play all by herself! She even let me video her, which usually she just stops if I try to point the camera. These are actions of a cat who feels well in herself. Thank you al for your vibes xxxx

https://youtu.be/LR8LzUyaCMA
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 27, 2019, 10:06:11 AM
lol except...what???

Food and poo stimulant. 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 27, 2019, 01:20:51 PM
Jennie is still eating, of sorts. I've been making chicken bone stock for myself today with a whole roaster (after taking the skin off for Mazy cat's extra fat) and after I took the meat out we've all enjoyed the fresh hot stewed chicken meat. Jennie ate quite a lot, she especially enjoyed the drumstick meat. However there has been no more poop, and after the chicken she went down and took a very long time standing in the litter box, first one, then the other, with no results. I don't think she strains, exactly, when she does this. She just stands there...waiting for something to move. Earlier she spent an hour on my lap while I watched a bit of Call The Midwife Season 5 on the couch, getting her middle massaged. I can feel exactly where the stool is now, and I do believe it is less....defined..which hopefully means it's getting very soft, but I don't know if that is past the tumor or not, that I have no way of knowing even after sitting here studying some diagrams of the cat's digestive system haha

1)As I sat down with my sandwich and their share they came running from their naps by the millions

2) Each takes her turn
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 27, 2019, 01:22:22 PM
Food and poo stimulant. 

OH!  funny2    Doh1

Of course the amount she had was barely enough to fill a 1/8 teaspoon.  Just tiny crumbs.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 27, 2019, 01:30:53 PM
And...... funny2

https://youtu.be/p3lmjL6PSXY
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 27, 2019, 06:24:32 PM
I've got a call in to the on-call vet. I think I just need some reassurance. Jennie has gone quiet and still this evening, this seems to be a time when she has more pain I think because I've noticed it before at this time of day. The thing is, she's due for her buprenorphine and her respiration is a bit slower than usual.  I think I've mentioned that sometimes it is up to 40 BPM, but lately she's been quite regular at 19 or 20. But tonight it's only 18 bpm. Buprenorphine can slow the res rate and I am worried about giving it to her, even though I know she needs it urgently.

She's not had a lot to eat today but enough to keep her going. She's due for 50 ml fluids at 9:00 p.m.

I've just had a thought. Maybe she just gets TIRED this time of day. And she was more active today than she has been the last few days.  I remember from my mother, cancer does make you TIRED.

But looming over all of it is the fact that there has been no more poop forthcoming. And I think her breath smells of poop a little.

I'm so scared for her now. My plan is, if there is no poop by morning to email the vet before I got to work so they have the details and then I will call as soon as they open and get her in for an x ray. We need to know if that stuff is moving through. Because if it isn't, she can't go on. Oh.

On second thought I think after the vet calls tonight I am going to call (2nd in command as boss is away) and tell her I might not be able to come in in the morning, until I get Jennie to the vet.  I think I'd rather be at the door at 8, not calling from work at 8.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 27, 2019, 06:26:12 PM
And there's another storm coming on Tuesday morning. Oh.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 27, 2019, 06:32:54 PM
They wouldn't answer my question.  I can't have her in pain. I'm giving it to her. 

Edit  Jennie has had her bupe. I called G and told (well technically I asked) her I was going to stay home tomorrow morning until the vet opened so I could get Jennie right in. That if Jennie did end up passing the stool I would let her know I was coming in after all.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 27, 2019, 09:53:35 PM
 fingerscrossed that Jennie poops tonight/early tomorrow morning.  GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 27, 2019, 11:29:15 PM
Jennie has vacillated between almost lethargic, and a little bit brighter all evening. Currently she is not feeling well, I think she is in pain, even with the drugs.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 28, 2019, 05:43:38 AM
How is Jennie this morning ?

Sending every ounce of positive thoughts, as well as much love, your way.

 Hug1  Hug1  Hug1  Hug1  Hug1 Hug1  Hug1  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 28, 2019, 05:45:24 AM
Jennie has had a tiny sliver of chicken this morning.  She slept in my arms as usual, and has sat on my lap as I've had my coffee this morning.

One thing I have noticed is the last few days she is putting herself in spots she's never gotten in before. The other day I found her sitting on top of the TV. This morning I woke to her in Mazy cat's spot in our bed.  (Mazy cat never came to bed last night) She's started using her bed-bed again, after having abandoned it months ago, when she first started showing symptoms of illness.  I had thought to move it, but finally just left it and I'm glad I did since she's using it again.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 28, 2019, 05:46:06 AM
WG we posted at the same time! great minds thinking a like haha.  HeadButt HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 28, 2019, 06:43:11 AM
Thanks for the update MC. I'm pleased that Jennie slept in your arms. There's nothing quite so comforting, for both of you, than physical contact.

 HeadButt  HeadButt  HeadButt  Hug1 
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 28, 2019, 07:04:35 AM
I think Jennie has had enough. I have promised her release from her pain.

 I've experienced that last day of play activity before, in both Bibbs and Tolly. I have told Mazy cat and Queen Eva I will probably not be bringing Jennie back.

I'm just waiting for the vet to open. I called their answering service and left a message that I would be calling.  Jennie's carrier towel is sitting on the heater so her carrier will be warm. It's frigid outside (5 F, windchill -18 F))
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 28, 2019, 08:33:21 AM
 My heart is breaking for you. No cat could have known more love than Jennie, Jennie.

 heartbeatgif  :'(
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 28, 2019, 08:56:47 AM
 :'( grouphug
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 28, 2019, 09:21:13 AM
Jennie Angel has left us and is with Tolly Angel now. I brought the carrier up to put Jennie in it, instead of bringing Jennie down to the carrier, and made sure both Queen Eva and Mazy cat said good bye after she was in it. They didn't even run away when I brought it up.  They knew what was happeing. (I warmed the towel first, too)

 I came home and told Mazy cat and let her sniff my hands. Mazy cat understood and spent the next ten minutes comforting me, rubbing all over me with little prrts.

Queen Eva did not want to be disturbed from her nap and did not want to smell my hands.

I saw them. I saw Tolly Angel, Ootay Angel and Jennie Angel, all three with their heads together in a little circle, when Jennie's heart stopped.  I saw them. Jennie is safe and I did not let her suffer.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 28, 2019, 11:31:03 AM
 HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 28, 2019, 04:34:29 PM
Holy crap. It seems you forget what it really feels like. It's been over 7 years since Tolly Angel left. I thought I knew, remembered, how much it hurts. When you read about someone else, too, you think you know how they feel because you've been through it too. But...it's not even close to the reality is it.  Geesh it takes your breath away.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 29, 2019, 02:17:19 AM
Yes, we think that we know how bad it will feel but we don't . It's always 100 times worse, and different every time.

I truly hope that Mazy cat will be able to comfort you in some small way. Queen Eva too. I have no doubt that sweet Jennie is looking down on you all, grateful to be free from that disease and wishing that she could comfort you too.

Sending hugs , and much love.xx
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 29, 2019, 05:21:04 AM
Thanks WG.   Mazy cat and Queen Eva are wonderful comforts.  My brain is still operating on Jennie Angel's med schedule.  I remember that from Ootay Angel.  It took months to stop, but Ootay's ministrations were for several years, Jennie only had 3 months, so maybe it will go away faster.

I haven't been an only 2 cat household since 1999.  I moved into this apartment with Ootay and Bibbs in summer 1998.  Tolly came along in September 1999. It's been three, and sometimes even four, ever since. Until now.

I always thought Mazy cat would be the next to go, with all her problems. Never dreamed of Jennie, who never had a problem ever, except a slight propensity toward constipation. Which probably is part of the same disease that took her from us. 

I haven't the slightest doubt that her 6 1/2 years on raw was what kept her here as long as she was. That cancer would have taken over much sooner if she had been on some highly processed garbage diet. I am sure of it.

And there is some comfort in that. Especially because she loved it so much.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 29, 2019, 09:57:20 AM
Sending lots of purrs and hugs . . .

grouphug grouphug  rainbow3  angelRIP angel5 grouphug grouphug
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 29, 2019, 12:58:47 PM
Thinking of you, Mazy, and Queen Eva...
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 29, 2019, 02:53:06 PM
Thinking of you, Mazy, and Queen Eva...

Me too.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 29, 2019, 06:33:07 PM
Thanks all. I miss her so much. Her bossy personality was always such a delight. But it's funny how much that 'no guilt' feeling helps. Jennie had an amazing weekend with me and the other girls, we did all her favorite things and she had all the comfort and bonding with me she wanted. And then I got her in before she had any suffering. There's no doubt she was starting to have pain even with the drugs, the last night but it wasn't too much and I let her go before it was. I think she knew I would, and that helped her too.

I get little stabs of pain when my brain wanders to the clock checking to see if it's time for this or that med. But, on the other hand, the absence of that worry over her I've been carrying for the last 3 months helps as well. The worry that she would suffer, under my care, was almost unbearable.

I keep re-seeing when I saw her face mashed in between Tolly's and Ootay's. Enormous comfort in that, as well.

More about the other two another time. I'm exhausted.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 29, 2019, 09:35:15 PM
 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1

HeadButt
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 30, 2019, 05:10:05 AM
Jennie's story:

http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?topic=3083.0
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Pookie on January 30, 2019, 08:59:16 PM
Thinking of you, Mazy and Queen Eva . . .

 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 grouphug
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on January 31, 2019, 05:19:45 AM
I miss her so much. I miss her stomping around bossing everyone. And counter surfing. And her instant purr and kneading combo. And sleeping in my arms.

Tuesday night when I hit the couch with my book Mazy cat came over and hesitated when she saw Jennie wasn't already there. I watched her work it out for herself...oh yeah, Jennie's an Angel now (maybe not in those words <smile>)

When she got on me, instead of settling right into her spot (green blanket/pink pillow on my chest) she first tested Jennie's spot on my middle.  She patted around, kneaded a few strokes, then came up to her usual spot.

Last night my book was already there, and she hesitated for a minute so I lifted the book to see if she wanted to try that spot again, but she went right to her own spot.

I wouldn't mid if she took the spot in the middle.  She is feeling very heavy on my chest these days.  Not because she's heavier. Because I'm just..older and tireder. But my chest and under my chin has always been her spot, since she first started getting on me (which took about 3 years actually)
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Woodland Girl on January 31, 2019, 09:35:55 AM
 Hug1  Hug1  Hug1  Hug1  Hug1  Hug1  Hug1  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1  Hug1

Jennie will always be in that same space - next to your heart.
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on January 31, 2019, 05:36:28 PM
^^^^ Well said!

 HeadButt

Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Middle Child on March 15, 2019, 07:41:07 PM
I am so thankful for this thread.  I was missing Jennie so much today I've come back and read the entire thing just now.  It helps me so much to remember how well Jennie did most of the time after her diagnosis.  And how I did not drag it out and make her suffer in the ned.

I noticed I never did post the pictures of her swollen feet and the lumps on her face.  I probably should have, in case this thread might ever help someone else, but I think I have since deleted them, not wanting to see them while working on Jennie's pictures in her memorial thread.

Thank yo so much all of you for standing by me during all of this, even when I got cranky. Hug1
Title: Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
Post by: Lola on March 16, 2019, 03:39:17 AM
 Hug1