Author Topic: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)  (Read 40970 times)

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Offline Pookie

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #225 on: January 02, 2019, 02:26:07 PM »
 :(  grouphug

When will you run out of this version and be able to get the version that was better (and sadly, more expensive)?
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #226 on: January 03, 2019, 05:52:51 AM »
The compounded version will last 3 months or more.  I imagine the vet would be willing to continue to fill it for me if Jennie really can't tolerate the RR version, but I need to try, really how can I support $600 a month ($10 a syringe x 2 syringes a day), if I can make this work?  And that's only the one med, remember she takes 3 other meds that cost a total of $150 a month.  I don't like to moan about money, but there is only so much in the paycheck.

The 0.05 dose seems to do okay. It doesn't last as long but her maximum dose of the compounded buprenorphine is 0.3 ml a day (0.15 every 12 hours).  0.05 every six hours works out to be the same total, just less of a wallop on her system, but still controlling the pain, I think.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #227 on: January 03, 2019, 07:19:47 PM »
Maybe I've found the magic dose for the compounded buprenorphine.  Tonight I gave her 0.75 ml and she seems to be very comfortable without being stoned. For now I think this dose every 12 hours will be good. 

Another thing to consider is that it also gives me leeway to increase the dose if she needs it later on. She'll only be getting 1/2 the maximum daily dose right now.

 Jennie learned early on to associate the little squirt of bupe with feeling better, because it's so quick I think. When she sees me coming with it she sits up and lifts her chin and waits for it.  I squirt it right onto her gum under her tongue and she stays still and lets me.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #228 on: January 04, 2019, 05:53:39 AM »
How about a couple of pics 1) last night.  This is where I move Jennie, bed and all, when I am ready for the couch myself (every night). She usually purrs very loud and stays there in the chair for about 15 minutes before joining me on the couch.  She appears totally relaxed here and is all open and had just allowed a nice tummy rub petting session.  However there is one sign of stress...look at her tail. She tucks her tail like that when she is feeling vulnerable.

This morning as I sat here with my coffee I heard the familiar sound of Queen Eva on her Table (she doesn't use it as a table though, she just likes to perch on it, chase her tail on it and use it as a bouncy launch to the top of the washing machine)

 I wasn't paying attention then I turned to look and lo and behold it is Jennie on the Table!  She's never gotten on it before.  (She is still there 10 minutes later)

Offline Pookie

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #229 on: January 04, 2019, 09:48:54 AM »
Maybe I've found the magic dose for the compounded buprenorphine.  Tonight I gave her 0.75 ml and she seems to be very comfortable without being stoned. For now I think this dose every 12 hours will be good. 

Another thing to consider is that it also gives me leeway to increase the dose if she needs it later on. She'll only be getting 1/2 the maximum daily dose right now.

Hoping you've found the magic dose  fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed

So many times I've thought Jennie looks like she's smiling at you in those pics.  Too cute!   :)
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Offline Lola

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #230 on: January 04, 2019, 10:03:39 AM »
 Hug1
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #231 on: January 04, 2019, 06:56:43 PM »
Hoping you've found the magic dose  fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed

So many times I've thought Jennie looks like she's smiling at you in those pics.  Too cute!   :)

Jennie is a smiley cat!

Regarding the never closing her eyes, she is clearly sleeping with her eyes open, and I think that started (in retrospect) before I was using the compounded buprenorphine, I think it started with the Simbodol brand.

I remember noticing, even a while back that she was having little specks of dust or bits of fur stuck on her eye surfaces, and eye boogies in the corners every day.  Her eyes must be getting dried out, from being open even when she sleeps. I'm going to ask the vet on Monday if there are any kind of lubricating eye drops I can give her.

EDIT: I've been given a couple of suggestions..GenTeal (human drops said to be safe for pets) and idrops made for pets.

The idrops have a sterile preservative free version that I like better.  Reviews say it's hard to squeeze the drops out though. That wold be a problem for me. Any opinions?

Edit again..I've looked at so many eye drops now my own eyes are buggy.  the idrop vet gel ones still seem to be the winner. I think I'll go ahead and order them, because it will take maybe a week to get them and hope the vet approves them on Monday.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #232 on: January 04, 2019, 08:33:37 PM »
EDIT: I've been given a couple of suggestions..GenTeal (human drops said to be safe for pets) and idrops made for pets.

The idrops have a sterile preservative free version that I like better.  Reviews say it's hard to squeeze the drops out though. That wold be a problem for me. Any opinions?

Not a clue, sorry.   :(  I won't have a chance to research it for a couple days, either.   :(
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #233 on: January 04, 2019, 09:23:06 PM »
I ordered the idrops vet gel.  Just hope I can get the drops to squeeze out.  If they feel good she may be patient enough to accept them without too much trouble.

Quote
Not a clue, sorry

Well it was opinions on if you thought sleeping with her eyes open is why she's getting stuff stick on her eye balls and eye boogies, and if lubricating would help a cat sleeping with her eyes open I also wanted. :)

Offline Lola

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #234 on: January 05, 2019, 07:50:58 AM »
From what I have read over the years, it isn't that uncommon for cats to sleep with their eyes open.  Although it is yucky... IMO!  Anyway... if needed or not, eye drops can't be a bad thing. 
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #235 on: January 05, 2019, 07:55:50 AM »
From what I have read over the years, it isn't that uncommon for cats to sleep with their eyes open.  Although it is yucky... IMO!  Anyway... if needed or not, eye drops can't be a bad thing. 

Thanks Lola, Tolly slept with his eyes open often, he was on phenobarbital all his life. It never occurred to me to worry about dry eyes with him. He couldn't tolerate ANYTHING in his eyes anyway.  He also had the herpes virus, though in his later years he rarely had a flare. The L-lysine controlled the virus.

Speaking of the vet I wrote a letter updating her on Jennie a week ago, and thought I would post it here, it gives a summary of updates on Jennie.  She asked me to keep her updated, and I did try to keep it short but ...ha.


Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #236 on: January 05, 2019, 08:06:48 AM »
Here's the letter (update to this forum in red): It's too long will have to post it in two parts

Hi Dr G, (and Dr B, too) I've been meaning to give you an update but each day seems to bring something different. Jennie's appointment with you is January 7.  I know you are especially interested in the effects of the piroxicam, so I'll start with that.

After 6 weeks on the piroxicam I began to see some changes in Jennie's stool quality.  There were fewer small mushy bits, fewer BMs all together. Now at the 8 week mark it really does appear that there has been some decrease in the inflammation in her bowel.  She is, generally speaking,  going 3 times a day (down from 5) with her largest amount in the early morning.  I am now seeing even less, twice a day even, but some days still seeing the mushy little bits

Almost all stool is formed and, in appearance, normal and firm.  When pressed on I find them still soft, but not as soft as before. And even firmer now.  And there are traces of blood still, but much less than previously.. Very little odor most of the time. Once in a while there is a very smelly episode but as her diet has no variation I do not know what causes those. Once in a while I might find those little mushy bits instead of a formed piece, but not often.

Her routine is the same, she gets into the box and stands still for a long time before starting to push the stool out.  She isn't appearing to be straining when she stands there, she's just....waiting. After waiting like that for sometimes over 5 minutes, she then goes into her crouch and passes her stool.

Her largest BM is in the early morning, about 7 1/2 hours after her last meal.  This stool is always the average size of what you would expect from a canned fed cat (that doesn't contain a lot of filler, just those annoying peas!), and is the stool most likely to contain fur.  Later in the morning she will pass another medium sized formed piece or two smaller pieces (if it's going to be mushy bits this is usually the one it will be).  Later in the evening she goes once more, again a medium or small piece, usually formed.  Last few days she's been skipping the midday poop, and one day she only pooped once, the early morning one.

Previously there were two more episodes in the litter box and they were almost always small mushy bits, often smelly.  Those are gone now. Am I right in thinking the stool size can be a determination of how much room she still has in there, and these improvements indicate the reduction of inflammation in her tumors?

She did have a day of what I thought was going to be the start of trouble with constipation. It was over the Christmas holiday and I was home a lot. She had a few dry crumbly bits which was very unusual for her and then a large stool full of fur, so it may have been fur built up causing it.  But she spent the day visiting the litter box often, and unproductively.  I went down one time to check on her and she was just sitting in there.  Not straining, or pushing, not her usual standing stance either,  just sitting. She was also reluctant to eat that day and I gave her fluids to keep her kidneys flushed.

I gave her a little mineral oil that evening. The next day she had her normal early morning largest poop, and all went back to normal from then on. There has been no more trouble like that.

Regarding the mineral oil, as you know, (Internal Medicine vet) indicated Jennie may need help in the future and recommended lactulose.  If you would agree,  I would rather use mineral oil, if and when we come to that point.  I know how to give it without it causing interference of nutrient or medicine absorption.  And she takes it in food, so there's no danger of aspiration. I really would rather not use the lactulose. What do you think?


Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #237 on: January 05, 2019, 08:06:58 AM »
Next Jennie's pain.  Her pain level does seem to be increasing.  It's so strange to look at this cat apparently glowing with health, but the difference between right before a buprenorphine dose is due and 10 minutes after is like night and day. She still has the gabapentin every 8 hours, and the piroxicam every 48 hours but is needing the bupe every 12 hours now as well.  At first I was trying to keep her at the lowest dose possible, but I just don't see any point in leaving her in discomfort, so I'm just giving it to her every 12 hours now. She is on the Cerenia as prescribed.

I'll give her the details about the compounded version at the visit.

Her appetite is pure Jennie.  She's always been an eager eater and with the exception of that one day, over Christmas with the constipation, she is ready to eat at all times.  Doing her Song and Dance and all!  I am concerned about weight gain so have been gradually reducing her quantity. When I first started her back on canned I wasn't sure how much she would need and was feeding 5.5 ounces a day. I didn't expect a cat with cancer needing to be worried about weight gain!  She's down to 4.85 ounces a day now.

Her weight this morning (12/30) was 8 lbs 9 ounces (Salter baby scale),  same as last week, so hopefully I can keep her at 4.85 ounces a day. And one week later, weight exactly the same again 8 lbs 9 oz I don't want her having food anxiety on top of everything else. My concern is if the weight gain is caused by too much food, or is there fluid built up or the tumor(s) growing? (Would tumors add much body weight?)  I don't feel her ribs getting prominent, so I do think it's too much food, but I'll be glad to have your assessment. Our appointment with you and for her blood draw kidney check is next Monday, the 7th at 5:40.

 I remember that when Jennie was on a canned diet, before going raw, she did tend to gain weight and I had to feed her very small amounts, She was only getting 3.5 ounces a day then, which was difficult for her with her food anxiety.  That anxiety problem went away mostly with the raw diet, and while she does have a good appetite I am not seeing that same worry over food, with the amount of canned she's getting now.

Her pee habits are consistent with the amount of water she is getting in her canned food.  I have the fluids, but haven't used them except twice when she was off her food. She accepts a couple of tablespoons of water in each serving of her canned food, so with 8 servings, she is getting about 8 ounces extra of water a day. She never goes near the water bowls.

She also gets the broth from poached chicken breast, I forgot to mention that. I poach the breasts in water for a long time, and the resulting broth is a lovely aspic when cold.  Just like bone broth I freeze in ice cube trays for individual portions.  The meat is frozen separately so I can use that as a treat or added to the broth.


Another concern is she seems a bit lumpy on her underside.  Dr B will be aware Jennie has always had that lumpy spot low on her abdomen, but lately she feels lumpy all over underneath.  I'm not sure if it's only because I am used to her having thick fur there, thinking back I can't remember if I felt those lumps when she was first shaved 2 months ago. That I never recorded lumps though, makes me think they weren't there then, because I usually write things like that down.

There is one lump when she is lying on her right side, near her ribs that seems to slide around. I mean when my fingers find it, I can actually push it around under the skin. I can't always find it.  Need to remember to mention that.

She shows no discomfort when having her tummy rubbed, in fact as always she invites it, and even accepts and encourages deep massage there. When I do this, her tummy is almost never gassy. I know the tumor is in her colon, but I'm thinking that if it begins grow in a way to cause blockage problems, along with changes in her bowel habits I might notice suddenly having gas in her tummy?

Since starting the compounded buprenorphine her stomach has started making gurgling noises.  I still don't feel any gas bubbles on massaging, and the bupe isn't ingested it is absorbed through the mucus membranes in the mouth so I don;t know what that is all about.

Just one more thing I wanted to mention.  I never asked to see the ultrasound, but I am assuming UVS sent those records to you so you know exactly what we are dealing with here.  I wonder sometimes if I should have looked at them, to help me have some understanding about how things will progress but I am still reluctant. I don't plan to put Jennie through another ultrasound to check progress, so I suppose there isn't any point to me looking at them now, I worry it will just cause me more anxiety.   When we come in next week, I'd like your opinion (and Dr Br's too, if she has anything to add) on how things are going, as far as progression of the disease, based on the ultrasound from 10/26, her original symptoms and my updates to you, and of course your examination when we come in.. I know I've been kind of skirting around that particular subject, but she's doing so well,I think I'm ready to talk about it now. (subject to change!)

So she has a good information basis for the check up and I have a couple more questions to ask her in addition to the ones in the letter including about the eye drops.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #238 on: January 06, 2019, 11:37:58 AM »
Wonder if anyone actually read all that lol

I just did something clever.  I sat down and figured out the exact dosage (exact mgs of drug) Jennie will get per dose per bupe med.

It took some time to make my brain know what to do.  I tried to get help with some calculations sites but they weren't doing the calculation I needed.

I did finally solve it and found out that the Simbadol was delivering .03 mg per dose of the actual active pain medication.

In the compounded version, at the 1.5 ml dose she was getting .075 mg which is at the high end of the range, and too high for Jennie as we already know.  At .05 ml of course she was only getting .025 mg.  BUT at .75 ml (the dose I figured out before doing all this mind bending) is delivering .0375! Which as you can see is the closest amount to the Simbadol (.03), that is effective, I mean. 

Offline Lola

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Re: Jennie has been diagnosed with carcinoma (cancer)
« Reply #239 on: January 06, 2019, 11:43:49 AM »
Wonder if anyone actually read all that lol

I just did something clever.  I sat down and figured out the exact dosage (exact mgs of drug) Jennie will get per dose per bupe med.

It took some time to make my brain know what to do.  I tried to get help with some calculations sites but they weren't doing the calculation I needed.

I did finally solve it and found out that the Simbadol was delivering .03 mg per dose of the actual active pain medication.

In the compounded version, at the 1.5 ml dose she was getting .075 mg which is at the high end of the range, and too high for Jennie as we already know.  At .05 ml of course she was only getting .025 mg.  BUT at .75 ml (the dose I figured out before doing all this mind bending) is delivering .0375! Which as you can see is the closest amount to the Simbadol (.03), that is effective, I mean. 

I know your posts are often notes for yourself.  I skimmed... except for the words in red.

As far as your math calculations... I'll take your word for it.  ;)
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