Parenting-Furkids
Cats => Cat Food And Nutrition => Discussion Of Brands And Ingredients => Topic started by: DeeDee on February 24, 2013, 03:20:39 PM
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Okay here's the situation:
My son's oldest cat has Hypercalcemia, and as of yet it's IHC...cancer is the only thing they've not started digging for yet, and they're doing the "wait and see" right now since it's so hard living while knowing if the "Big C" is involved.
Mia's lost weight, and as of now they've got her one one of those Hills Science Diet high-calorie things. I know, I'm gagging too since I'd never give it to the boys here. But at least I got through to them about SOME kind of wet instead of dry.
My son grew up with dogs not knowing about cats at all due to my severe allergies, so they don't have a good base of "don't do this with your cat" knowledge at hand. He just doesn't have time for dogs now though, so he's VERY attached to these cats. However, they're a lot like I used to be--don't question the vet, just do what they say since they have a degree and you don't. I don't think it's hit them yet that those vets learned one thing in school and have very little time anymore for continued learning that proves necessary changes.
Can someone PLEASE give me a list of lower calcium canned foods? I REALLY need this to try to get them moved to something else that might actually have a good effect.
Needs for foods' list:
1. Readily available at Petco, Dillons Grocery, Walmart (sucks) or Petsmart due to their military/graduate school lifestyle--even shopping time is at a premium for them
2. If any of those carry any raw foods that are acceptable--that's GREAT! I'll talk to them about it.
3. Lower calcium of course, but high-calorie would be great too since she's lost weight.
If you think of anything else that might help, tell me and I'll pass that on too.
Thank you!
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Hi DeeDee,
Unfortunately, I'm not really able to provide a food list, but in case you didn't see this info in one of the other threads, I wanted to re-post it here in case your son's cat is being given lactulose or in case it's suggested in the future. The info was posted by Middle Child:
While in the forum I came across a thread from someone whose cat was in kidney failure, and taking lactulose for constipation. The cat's blood calcium levels had shot up into dangerously high numbers. Having been in that situation only a year earlier with a different cat I posted in the thread about what I had learned.
As her hypercalcemia got worse and worse, I had had my cat at Cornell for all kinds of tests, and the internal medicine specialist had told me another client had mentioned a possible connection between lactulose and high blood Ca in cats with kidney failure. We couldn't find anything on it, but later a friend found a yahoo group where it was being discussed and there was much anecdotal evidence. My own vet was skeptical but we had tried everything else and the internal medicine specialist at Cornell was talking about surgery to remove the parathyroid. I insisted we stop the lactulose and put her on mineral oil (she had megacolon). 3 weeks after going off the lactulose her blood Ca had dropped 4 points (it had been up to 12). In another three weeks it was in normal range and remained in normal range for the remainder of her life.
[Pookie again]: Would it help if you printed the nutrition information from www.catinfo.org and gave it to your son? It's written by a vet, so maybe that would help? grouphug grouphug
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[Pookie again]: Would it help if you printed the nutrition information from www.catinfo.org and gave it to your son? It's written by a vet, so maybe that would help? grouphug grouphug
Thank you, Pookie. I'll make sure I send that in the email I'm fixing up. Like at the top of the email! ;D I wish he wasn't 13 hours away from me so I could nag him in the face. Last year when I said something about his cats needed to be eating like my dogs, his wife perked up, but he said, "They're doing just fine with what they have." bangshead
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While I would first recommend a raw diet, sounds like this is not possible for them?
I dont think the stores you listed sell commercial raw.
The next best thing is to get the cat on an all wet diet.
Wellness grain free ( Beef, Chicken and Beef, and Turkey) are the lowest in calcium.
Also you can try Evo and Weruva.
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While I would first recommend a raw diet, sounds like this is not possible for them?
Thank you! :-* I'll give them that list in the email too. Unless they can find some readily available already prepared raw, I know it won't be happening. She's in graduate school (I still don't understand someone that's ready to throw raw meat to a tiger not figuring out their cats need raw too, but maybe it's just him.), and time is really a big factor with her homework, etc. He's having to go to new schools now too for all the upgrades he's been getting along with his squadron job, so neither of them really has time for much of anything. I think holding their cats is about the only downtime they get.
I've looked into ordering it for them, but with their school costs, I don't think that's really an option. Everything I've found online was really expensive even compared to feeding canned. I know that if the boys were still home, I doubt I could be feeding Barkly & Vlad the way I do--and children are cheaper than tuition and books. Well, unless you're having to pay for said children's tuition and books. Doh1
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Just go with the Wet then. Buying large cans is the cheapest than buying small cans.
Looks like Petco has lots of the "better" brands.
Its better than dry thumbsup1
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Would your son consider sending Dr. P an email to set up a phone consultation? DrPiersonATcatinfo.org Her fees (every 15 minutes on the phone) were similar to what I pay for a 15 minute office call. For what your son is paying for the RX "food," and who knows what kind of testing... a phone consultation would probably save him money, in the long run.
I would pick PetCo, from the list of stores you posted. In my area, PetSmart doesn't carry... what I would consider better pet foods.
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I don't know...but I can always give him the info to do so...can't I? :D
Thank you!
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Okay here's the situation:
My son's oldest cat has Hypercalcemia, and as of yet it's IHC...cancer is the only thing they've not started digging for yet, and they're doing the "wait and see" right now since it's so hard living while knowing if the "Big C" is involved.
However, they're a lot like I used to be--don't question the vet, just do what they say since they have a degree and you don't. I don't think it's hit them yet that those vets learned one thing in school and have very little time anymore for continued learning that proves necessary changes.
DeeDee, it took a whoooole lot for me to buy a clue, as my entire family was conditioned to trust for so many decades due to having an angel vet. They weren't just corrupt -- they were also overly-aggressive with the over-selling AND totally incompetent (young & inexperienced, pressured to up-sell) on top of everything else. So found out the hard way how hard it really is, to be convinced that the vet is totally wrong.
I can't offer any food recommendations but had a relative who I dug crazy for research for, for her cat, and they STILL fed the rx carp because they don't know how to say "I don't agree" with a vet. It's just unthinkable for most people.
Have another realtive with 5 cats and I showed the family, pictures of cats' teeth & how they can't chew, and they still feed kibble. I believe the vet influence is the biggest obstacle when it comes to trying to steer people straight -- people don't believe it would be legal if it's so wrong -- , so am posting these in case you need them, to forward to your son so he'll consider Pookies/Middle Child's & other advice:
Conflicts of Interest & Unregulated:
FROM a Vet:
http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2007/june/how-do-vets-recommend-pet-food-part-1-industry#.USsFMI7FUS3
http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2007/june/how-do-vets-recommend-pet-food-part-2-education#.USsFao7FUS3
http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2007/june/how-do-vets-recommend-pet-food-part-3-practice#.USsFhY7FUS3
Dr Fox: http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/2009/07/conflicts-of-interest-in-the-veterinary-profession/ (http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/2009/07/conflicts-of-interest-in-the-veterinary-profession/)
"PET FOOD DEBACLE" written by three Vets: Pet Food & Nutrition: A Necessary Review For Veterinarians
M.E. Smart, C. Haggart, J.A. Mills http://www.petfood-bad.blogspot.com/
Here is the "AAHA Nutritional Assessment Guidelines for Dogs and Cats"
Right on the first page, left hand side:
Quote
These guidelines were sponsored by a generous educational grant from Hill’s Pet Nutrition. JOURNAL of the American Animal Hospital Association
The American Animal Hospital Association recommends these nutrition- al assessment guidelines because good nutrition enhances pets’ quality and quantity of life, and is integral to optimal animal care.
http://www.acvn.org/wp-content/uploa...Guidelines.pdf
Also a link to a Harvard Law Paper, explaining everything, and the lack of regulation, if you think it would help.
http://leda.law.harvard.edu/leda/data/784/Patrick06.html
Quote:
Hill's Pet Nutrition supports the veterinary community in many ways.
Hill's Food Room http://clubs.ncsu.edu/scavma/Hills/index.html
Just put a brand name (Hills, Purina, Royal Canin...) in a search with a university. Same stories right on their own sites, not second-hand.
I also have to add, is there a chance there's another vet they can go to? (Not a chain).
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To add to Shadow's suggestion of using bigger cans, which gives you more bang for your buck, it's also a better deal if they're bought by the case rather than individual cans. At least, that's how it works in the specialty store I shop at. This goes for the smaller cans, too.
If they need more convincing from vets or science, Dr. Elizabeth M. Hodgkins also believes cats should only be fed wet or raw. In fact, (here's some serious science if they need it), she patented to protocol to treat feline diabetes by removing dry food from cat's diets and replacing it with low-carb, high-protein wet food. She had to conduct a clinical study to do this. Many cats either go off the insulin completely, or greatly reduce their needed dose when switched to an all-wet diet. So maybe this information will help convince them. :)
P.S. Treats should be grain-free, too.
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Thank you all SO much! I'm giving them all this info in emails. They've at least made it to wet food...I've just got to get them on some wet food that isn't a disgusting SCIENCE experiment! And, at the last week in May-first of June, I'll be able to talk to them about it more face-to-face when we go there for a vacation.
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To add to Shadow's suggestion of using bigger cans, which gives you more bang for your buck, it's also a better deal if they're bought by the case rather than individual cans. At least, that's how it works in the specialty store I shop at. This goes for the smaller cans, too.
If they need more convincing from vets or science, Dr. Elizabeth M. Hodgkins also believes cats should only be fed wet or raw. In fact, (here's some serious science if they need it), she patented to protocol to treat feline diabetes by removing dry food from cat's diets and replacing it with low-carb, high-protein wet food. She had to conduct a clinical study to do this. Many cats either go off the insulin completely, or greatly reduce their needed dose when switched to an all-wet diet. So maybe this information will help convince them. :)
P.S. Treats should be grain-free, too.
thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1
She actually invented what would become purina d/m wet -- even though they didn't follow her formula as she specified.
http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/vet-industry-people/profiles-in-medicine/challenging-the-status-quo.aspx
After struggling with an especially unmanageable case of diabetes mellitus in her own cat for almost a year and hearing euthanasia recommended by colleagues, Elizabeth Hodgkins, DVM, went back to the drawing board. It was 1994 and she had left her position as vice president of marketing at Hill’s Pet Nutrition to start law school. She began studying ingredients on the label of dry food she had been feeding the 4-year-old cat.
What she discovered not only cured her Punkin of diabetes in five days but also led to her patenting a canned food for diabetic cats and developing her “Tight Regulation” protocol, which she says has permanently cured several hundred diabetics in her feline practice.
In 2001 Hodgkins received a U.S. patent on her canned food formula, which Purina purchased and launched as DM, its Diabetes Management brand, in 2002. The results of her investigation, which were included in her patent application, were also published in Veterinary Therapeutics in 2001. She was taken aback when Purina launched a dry version of DM, about a year later after the canned version.
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Keep us posted, if you can.
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I found this article on hypercalcemia in cats. It's long but worth a read.
http://catexpert.blogspot.com/2011/12/hypercalcemia-in-cats.html
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Thank you, MC! Actually, that's one of the first articles I found and sent them before I asked y'all what kind of foods were lower. That was one of the articles that made me ask for help.
I'm sure she thinks I've put her on system overload now, but last night she told me it was making sense...was all something to think about and she'd be looking into it all.
That's progress...right?
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Yep, progress. I'm not surprised to hear you'd already sent the link. I found it by following a link in the PFK twitter site to the vet's site, then seeing the article, and knowing you were interested in the subject, I checked out that link, too.
Got that? funny2
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Got that? funny2
:-*
With all of us doing their research they don't have time to do on their own--how can they miss it?
HeadButt
I know she's probably going on system overload though. So after I sent last night's email with the site with the sale, the freeship code, and the carageean (sp?) y'all had posted, I decided to lay off her a bit.
By the time I'd found those articles that called it IHC when nothing else had been found yet, I was on system overload myself & decided I needed help. Of course you all were the first place I went for it!
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Any updates?
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No...not heard from her since the snow started melting and she could drive again to get to class and work.
Her course of study is actually in Environmental Zoology--she ultimately wants to work for any of the state or national parks. Right now she's actually working in a vet's office--so they got hold of her before I got to do so with any hard evidence.
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As soon as I read "vet's office," ... poo!
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Yeah...I asked her a bunch of questions when she started it...I was thinking they're going to brainwash the girl.
But the pay was better (they've got a lot of school-loans to pay now.), and she doesn't have to put up with kids in the same way she would have for the lower-paying job at the zoo that was offered--to escort field-trips around the zoo. The vet's office is also willing to work around her classes the way the zoo was.
The way most kids act these days, I wouldn't want to have to spend a day with them either--much less a never-ending cycle of it.
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I didn't mean "poo" to her working in a vet's office. I meant poo... they probably got to her first.
Anyway.... hope all is well!
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My son told me last week that she's gained a pound now being on canned food.
I've got his wife reading now at least. Every time I see something good that I think might help more, I make sure she gets it!
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My son told me last week that she's gained a pound now being on canned food.
I've got his wife reading now at least. Every time I see something good that I think might help more, I make sure she gets it!
That is WONDERFUL... the weight gain and the reading!!
When I give my family info, they think I'm a conspiracy nut.