Parenting-Furkids

Cats => Caring For Your Cat => Declawing => Topic started by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 05:11:54 PM

Title: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 05:11:54 PM
The Martha Stewart thread prompted me to do a quick search for this procedure and here is some stuff I found.

How much of this is true?   

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Become Educated on Feline Declaw Procedure Methods: Why is CO2 Laser the Best?
            What is a declaw? Onychectomy (or more commonly called “declawing”) is the term used to describe the permanent removal of the distal portion of the claw.

So no bone included, or is bone part of the distal portion "of the claw"?
This is confusing.  No "Knuckle"? Or IS the distal portion the knuckle of the claw? 
I can't be this dense!!  But I also sucked at Biology  :-[

 


Quote
COUPON DETAILS
Quote
Laser Declaw Special
All cat owners know that the laser has revolutionized how cats are declawed.  The laser seals blood vessels to prevent bleeding and more importantly it also seals nerve endings.  Why is this important?  Well, sealed nerve endings prevent your pet from waking up in pain.  A happy cat will heal faster than a painful one.  Consequently, our hospital performs all declaws with our state of the art laser. For a limited time, your pet will receive a thorough physical examination,  anesthesia, a pre-surgical pain injection, and a laser declaw all for the low price of $200.  You must mention you saw this at DESHONANIMAL.COM or bring a print out of this page to receive this special price.
Our dental special
is also a package deal, your pet will receive


Do they?  Wow, they took the trouble to poll every existing cat owner!!!!


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In our practice, recovery from surgery is very rapid, with the outcome leading to a stronger bond between pet and pet owner, which ultimately leads to better overall care.

A stronger bond?!   That's INCREDIBLE!!   Like Magic even!!   Is this really true, do you think?   Should people with "aloof" cats get them declawed to improve their bonds?!!!   Do they cuddle more?
(I know that is a peeve of some people who complain about cats' personalities!)


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We are a Cat-Friendly Practice. Cat-Friendly means that we have some special things and protocols designed to make our feline patients feel right at home. Click here for details.

Declawing involves the surgical removal of the claws, generally all ten of the claws on the front paws.  There are several surgical techniques in use.  At Sunnyside Veterinary Clinic, we use a technique that involves surgically amputating the claws with a CO2  laser.

I keep reading about "bone"/like our first knuckle.  So again, their knuckle is in their claw?  That's weird...

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To give you an idea of the approximate frequency of these complications, I can tell you that I have had one maybe two cats over the years with phantom pain, none with posture problems, and an infection maybe every couple of years or so.

This is a doozie!!!    I'd love for someone to confirm this!!      Can anyone describe, please, what "Phantom pain" is, literally?  I'm safely assuming humans could describe it, if they know what it IS, beings they can speak (or write)!  Thanks in advance!!!   


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A number of scientific studies have shown that declawed cats have no greater risk of getting bitten or injured in a cat fight

  Maybe this is because a declawed cat tends to SLAP harder, thus better defense against an aggressor?  That would be my guess!  Love "scientific studies", don't you?!    But they probably took the easy route & observed declawed cats interacting with intact ones & watched what didn't happen   ::)  Lazy...

OK so somebody wants to spare their $1,750.95 leather sofa with the suede trimming. So they get online & put "declaw" for their town into the search box:


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Look at our newly discounted pricing for spay, neuter, and declaw of your pet. These prices have been discounted over 100 dollars off regular pricing.

Hey, $100 big ones could pay for a professional leather cleaning!!!!    SCORE!!!!

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We recommend that our doctor get a chance to visit with you and your pet before making the decision for surgey. Druing this visit the docor will explain the how the surgical procedure should go as well as the importance of the pre-anesthetic blood work and our protocol for safe anesthesia just like with humans.
On surgery day your dog will be welcomed by one of our staff members who will further answer any questions or concerns you might have.


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Each claw will be surgically removed and a stitch will close the incision.

Again, just the claw? Why on EARTH do I keep reading about a knuckle?   Damn Internet...


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Declaw Package
· · ·
● ● ● ● ●
Pre-surgery physical exam by the surgeon Anesthesia Surgery: Nail is removed with an incision so small, no sutures are needed
Two nights hospitalization Daily pain relief medication while in Hospital Nail trim “Yesterday’s News” litter Lots of extra TLC!

OK Now it's down to a NAIL? Well a nail is a bone in a knuckle, isn't it?  I am TOTALLY confused! Damn Internet!!  If they are removing nails, why would a cat need TWO nights Hospitalisation?  Well I did rip my index fingernail off once and stuck some peroxide & a bandaid on it and it HURT enough to draw tears but I'm not a cat of course...


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Why declaw my cat? Cat scratching is a normal behavior done to mark territory and to also shed dead nails. At Cats …, we understand that behavior modification is not always effective in deterring your feline friend from using its claws inappropriately, and so only offers the most advanced method of declawing.
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: DeeDee on June 20, 2014, 05:42:33 PM

This is a doozie!!!    I'd love for someone to confirm this!!      Can anyone describe, please, what "Phantom pain" is, literally?  I'm safely assuming humans could describe it, if they know what it IS, beings they can speak (or write)!  Thanks in advance!!!   


Phantom pain is when a part of the body is missing, but the brain (through live nerve endings at the end site of the missing part) still thinks that it's there because of pain. Plenty of people that have had amputations feel severe pain in the area that the limb (that no longer exists) would be if it still existed--mainly because of nerve trauma. It's like a ghost hiding in their body. An arm-amputee can still feel their fingers hurting. My parents told me that after Korea, one of my uncles would wake up screaming in pain from the legs that weren't there any longer, but were still hurting.

I'm not buying that "sealing off the nerves" bit. It was common in the past that surgeons would cauterize the wounds of amputations during war time to prevent further infection. It didn't stop phantom pains though. So just how exactly is a laser supposed to burn off the nerves to "seal" them any differently from that?

I would go further toward believing it if laser surgery weren't popular with humans, and soldiers weren't coming back from war with phantom pains. The thing is, they're still coming back feeling it.


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Each claw will be surgically removed and a stitch will close the incision.

Again, just the claw? Why on EARTH do I keep reading about a knuckle?   Damn Internet...



Excuse me, but if the laser seals the wound off, why do they need a stitch?


And I'll believe this bit more than I believe "the claw" without bone being mentioned:

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Procedure involves disarticulation of the P2/P3 junction and subsequent removal of entire P3 bone

http://www.medilexicon.com/medicaldictionary.php?t=62643
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 05:54:34 PM
Wow, thank you. {Hugs}   

 Was wondering about their statement, whether it's possible people could know/judge what an animal  (let alone cat of all stoic creatures) is feeling, regarding this, then.    (Not making ligh of our Servicemen and others, of course, comparing to our pets...)   

Thank you again. 
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 05:57:28 PM
Quote
Excuse me, but if the laser seals the wound off, why do they need a stitch?

That's why I posted these questions.   :)    Hope somebody can enlighten us on these perplexing things... 
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 06:04:09 PM
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Procedure involves disarticulation of the P2/P3 junction and subsequent removal of entire P3 bone

Just for kicks, do a "declaw" search in your area and see how many "options" mention this on their official websites   (although if you're out "West enough", you'll have better odds of people being upfront and disclosing everything, I think.) 
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: Lola on June 20, 2014, 06:09:48 PM
I would be happy to explain.  The info that you quoted... BSbaloney
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: DeeDee on June 20, 2014, 06:12:55 PM
Wow, thank you. {Hugs}   

 Was wondering about their statement, whether it's possible people could know/judge what an animal  (let alone cat of all stoic creatures) is feeling, regarding this, then.    (Not making ligh of our Servicemen and others, of course, comparing to our pets...)   

Thank you again. 

Since it's impossible to know what an animal TRULY thinks, I don't think it's possible to know if they're feeling phantom pain or just plain-ol' real pain from being cut on. I can tell you for a fact that having part of your bones cut out is some of the most excruciating pain ever. I handle pain a lot better than most, but when I had my hip replacement 15 years ago, it was so bad that once I woke up I couldn't breathe. But joint replacements are still different from amputation. (I've heard new developments make it better now, but I don't want to find out. However, I don't read about them doing nerve-blocks on animals when something catastrophic is done. Just a bunch of after-care pain-management BS.)

That's one reason I'm so against this procedure. I can't imagine having something cut off as hurting any less than I did no matter which part of the body that's cut off. Losing bone is losing bone. It freaking hurts!
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: Lola on June 20, 2014, 06:14:35 PM
Here is a picture of the TRUTH


(https://parenting-furkids.com/gallery/1_16_06_13_3_11_02.jpeg)

Since picture are hidden, to guests, here:
http://i61.tinypic.com/2n1xbhi.jpg
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: DeeDee on June 20, 2014, 06:20:25 PM
Just so you know, I think that bone fragments left behind is why some cats feel pain afterward (after healing has occured). The vets aren't meticulous about cleaning things up. Loose bone is going to feel something like loose shrapnel, and every time it comes into contact with something--like trying to dig in litter--it's going to cause pain throughout the whole of the skin in that area from pressure and/or sharp bone pieces that are, in effect, cutting the skin from the inside-out.

Maybe they're trying to explain this away as "phantom pain" to keep the owner from saying something went wrong and they left a bunch of bone behind that shouldn't be there. Maybe there are bone fragments behind, and the vet is afraid of malpractice?

But gee. It wouldn't have been messed up in the first place if they hadn't have cut on the cat!

(https://parenting-furkids.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pawprojectmovie.com%2Fimg-slsh%2Fpp_slsh01_05_xray_schematic_bone_frags.png&hash=d87218d87bc277cb3c10c34e6864ce40b70cd838)
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: Lola on June 20, 2014, 06:27:42 PM
Quote
Maybe there are bone fragments behind, and the vet is afraid of malpractice?

I don't want to go OT, but...  that isn't going to happen.  http://www.animallaw.info/articles/qvusvetmal.htm
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 07:09:22 PM
I would be happy to explain.  The info that you quoted... BSbaloney

But it's "official" info, on actual licensed peoples' own websites. And I only grabbed a few off some of the first search pages' hits, too. 

Wanna do an experiment & put "declaw" for a random city in search box, and see if anything different comes up on the hits?  (TIP: Aim for/towards the West Coast for better odds of reading the whole truth.)


***Please note, those who don't know how sardonic I can be when trying to express things: My "questions" and comments (while still sincere) in response to the statements quoted were intended to amplify how absurd and (contradictorily) vague  I perceive the statements to be  -- not meant to make fun of the issue.  I'm just too disgusted for a regular rant... especially with that big, elaborate Martha Stewart blog/outcry...
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: DeeDee on June 20, 2014, 07:40:29 PM
 

Wanna do an experiment & put "declaw" for a random city in search box, and see if anything different comes up on the hits?  (TIP: Aim for/towards the West Coast for better odds of reading the whole truth.)

Well our local pet magazine, Nashville Paw is against it: http://www.nashvillepaw.com/latest_topics/2011/12/13/the-cruelty-of-cat-declawing.255804

Nashville Cat Rescue is against it: http://www.nashvillecatrescue.org/declawing

The news station that I watch most Cites the HSUS policy that is MAINLY against it: http://www.newschannel5.com/story/478070/declawing-cats

And this vet doesn't list it among the surgeries they do: http://franklintnvet.com/services/western-medicine/surgery/

Note: I'm not sure why that vet showed up in my first page of results other than the fact that Google customizes searches for people, and I'm sure that if I went to my husband's computer, I'd get different results.

However, this one DID come up:

http://www.nashvillecatclinic.com/veterinary-services.html

As well as this one:

http://www.localvets.com/services/declawing/tn/nashville/

But now I've quit looking since I saw this link at the end of the first page of my results: http://www.petdeclaw.com/ml2/?v=110488550&u=08B0A5F9D4DB89BF0210818080F807181020F3A884DAC3B4F0AF1D&gclid=CjgKEAjwt4-dBRCDnaTUn-mC_0oSJAC4Q6kG4YOW-NvHiOggWwQHBOSawLz4nSk7Cjhb4TWK45e6HPD_BwE

I'd like to whop the owner of that petdeclaw.com page over the head with an anvil!

So, out of 10 results, I ended up with 4 that were either suggesting other things, against it completely, or didn't list it as a service. All the other results not listed were along the lines of the "localvets.com" business listings.
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 08:10:39 PM
Wow  :o

On that last link, it states:

About Our Cat Declawing Directory
Quote
We all love and care for our pets every day, but sometimes our pets need more than just our love. Cat declawing is a service we sometimes have to get for our pet that love and care doesn't provide. At cat declawing offices, our animals can get services and products that help him or her live a more fulfilling life

What I truly wonder is how and why this stuff is tolerated/allowed.   Can anybody back those statements (as well as the ones in OP) UP?   ANY of them?  Why aren't people demanding these statements be, at least, corrected?  It's not like salesmen bragging about an appliance performing how it's not really going to.  I mean, this is a "Surgery"  :o  And salesmen of appliances and what-not aren't licensed....

Sure, we get hosed by unsavory businesses and products every day, claims loaded with a bunch of BS for over-priced junk. But we can sic our credit cards and the BBB on them, and get refunds, and write online reviews...

This stuff is downright dangerous, IMO, if people believe it. And unless Joe Q Public does some serious research and finds the right websites (like you & Lola have posted above), how are they ever gonna know EVERYthing it entails unless they luck upon one of the great vets who tell the entire story?   

Dam, this and that food issue. What a double-whammy... I had never looked into the declawing issue as it's not something we'd ever even thought about.  Only knew it was "cruel and unusual". That's it. 
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: DeeDee on June 20, 2014, 08:20:03 PM
Why aren't people demanding these statements be, at least, corrected?  It's not like salesmen bragging about an appliance performing how it's not really going to.  I mean, this is a "Surgery"  :o  And salesmen of appliances and what-not aren't licensed....


You can demand all day long. We've got freedom of speech, and people are allowed to put up websites that "state their personal opinion" all day long. So, in their opinions, they're giving out information that they believe in, and there's nothing to be corrected.

As far as consumers demanding they change their opinions, well it's like this. . .Martha Stewart didn't pay one whit of attention to people fussing about her statements on kitty-footy-amputation. And a LOT of people were demanding she address it. She did exactly what every other site will do. Ignored the demands.
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 08:36:53 PM
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You can demand all day long. We've got freedom of speech, and people are allowed to put up websites that "state their personal opinion" all day long. So, in their opinions, they're giving out information that they believe in, and there's nothing to be corrected.

Oh I'm not going to.  (Demand).  Like I said, they were all up in arms over Martha Stewart when stuff like this is on "official" site, of a nation-wide vet chain, one of the 2 largest in the country:

Quote
In our practice, recovery from surgery is very rapid, with the outcome leading to a stronger bond between pet and pet owner, which ultimately leads to better overall care.

That is a statement regarding DEclawing.  Do you, in your honest opinion, think that is true? Half-true?  A "maybe"?     Is whatever MS said, as her opinion, worse than that?

Quote
As far as consumers demanding they change their opinions, well it's like this. . .Martha Stewart didn't pay one whit of attention to people fussing about her statements on kitty-footy-amputation. And a LOT of people were demanding she address it. She did exactly what every other site will do. Ignored the demands.

Yup.  I hear you.  Guess I'm just perplexed at all the "commotion" over her opinion, as opposed to what is so often being presented as "fact", when it certainly does not appear to be fact. 

Which is why I asked the questions in the OP.  Is it just me being too critical of *mainstream business policies and procedures, or what? 

Thanks for the dialogue!  :)

Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: DeeDee on June 20, 2014, 09:14:34 PM
Quote
In our practice, recovery from surgery is very rapid, with the outcome leading to a stronger bond between pet and pet owner, which ultimately leads to better overall care.

Quote
That is a statement regarding DEclawing.  Do you, in your honest opinion, think that is true? Half-true?  A "maybe"?     Is whatever MS said, as her opinion, worse than that?

I in no way think that's even minutely true. If they mean that now the owner won't be angry as hell at the cat for tearing up their precious furniture (Instead of buying them some scratching posts and building a kitty arena to help provide for their needs and keep their minds happy.), then they should say that the bond is better because now the owner doesn't resent the cat since the cat can no longer do what God intended it to do.

Sadly it seems, most of the time, pet care falls into what the human wants, what is most convenient, instead of what the pet needs. Too many people won't do what we do here. We read and read, then read some more. Then we think and compare. Then we think again. After all that, if we still can't get to an end point, we go back and start searching for even more to start reading again. We are NOT the norm of today's society. The majority of today's society has an allergy to educational thought. After all, it's so much easier to pay a vet to do their thinking for them.
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: Middle Child on June 20, 2014, 09:23:51 PM
Yes, and when the cat begins avoiding the litter box or biting, or never moves all day long because of pain pain and more pain, what happens to that "bond"?  Out the door..with the cat.

You guys were talking about Facebook on another thread, I have an account but don't use it much, but what comes to my account is feeds from several anti declaw sites.  The number of cats with bone fragments and regrowth is staggering.  And these are only the cats who have been dumped at the shelters reporting the repair surgeries (when they can raise enough money to do it).  Who knows how many are left mouldering in homes, suffering all their lives.

And that's just the bone fragments and regrowth (which can protrude though the pad, so the cat has to WALK on that bare bone.  And scratch in cat litter. can you imagine the agony?)

Let's not forget the pain they suffer in their backs and legs since they can't ever stretch properly ever again. The early arthritis.  The diabetes.  It's all so evil I can hardly bear to think of it sometimes.
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 10:11:52 PM
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I in no way think that's even minutely true.  If they mean that now the owner won't be angry as hell ...

Of course you don't.  thumbsup1   The "question" was response to this:

Quote
You can demand all day long. We've got freedom of speech, and people are allowed to put up websites that "state their personal opinion" all day long. So, in their opinions, they're giving out information that they believe in, and there's nothing to be corrected.


#1 
Quote
The majority of today's society has an allergy to educational thought.
thumbsup1  And everybody in a position to influence them, who can profit, knows this. 

#2 
Quote
After all, it's so much easier to pay a vet to do their thinking for them.
Yes, and who REALLY pays?  The humans don't suffer, or feel the pain.  They only get hit in the pocketbook, -- their "penalty" for #1,  and oblivious to it all the whole time.

 
#3 
Quote
Sadly it seems, most of the time, pet care falls into what the human wants, what is most convenient, instead of what the pet needs.
 

All of the above, ( I quoted you out of order on purpose to end with these concerns ):

Also add in the fact that this information is not available to *mainstream* Joe Q Public unless he's digging on the Internet like we do.

 He would, of course need a reason to be that desperate, to question that which is so widely believed, and start googling, wouldn't he?

  THEN he has to sift through soooo much conflicting information; message forum wars, fancy websites with PR & marketing expert input backed by big corporations….blogs, more message forum wars ...more convincing ads.    And why wouldn't he believe his vet knows best, in the first place? 

We might think this statement is absurd, but do the mainstream majority when this is the general (business) philosophy of the only pet-care choices available to them?

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In our practice, recovery from surgery is very rapid, with the outcome leading to a stronger bond between pet and pet owner, which ultimately leads to better overall care.

So this is what most people "in the real world" will believe. Why wouldn't they? It's not presented as just an opinion. It's an official philosophy of the "licensed" facilities near them.

 And just who is going (to try)  to convince them otherwise?  Nobody who should be, that's for sure.  Rescuers and non-profits DO know better, so they educate. But where to go for health care?  How many choices really are there now?  Look at MC's post above.  Declawed cats EVERYwhere as I'm sure it's not limited to the feeds she sees. 
(The same can be said for diet!)

That's the whole point of this thread.  And there's no way to get people to address it with the vengeance reserved for an *UNqualified* Martha Stewart with just an opinion.
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: DeeDee on June 20, 2014, 10:24:03 PM
Quote
That's the whole point of this thread.  And there's no way to get people to address it with the vengeance reserved for a Martha Stewart with just an opinion.


I really wish we all had endless money so that we could obtain copies of The Paw Project's documentary to give to every vet that does the surgeries, and shove it in their faces.

Meanwhile, we're up against BS like this from people that DO seem to have endless money to walk the other side of the fence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTMFOKToeSI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTMFOKToeSI)

WARNING: this is truly shudder-worthy and is done using what looks like the guillotine clippers I use on their nail tips before I use the Dremel on the rest, and super glue maybe?

Yes Dave Weisman lobbyist believes that it's okay to do this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niMgBGfMgFc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niMgBGfMgFc)
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 10:25:30 PM
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can you imagine the agony?

No, MC.  grouphug     

 People don't realise ANYthing until *THEY* can feel it. 

If they had to endure it, you can BET it would have been outlawed long ago.  But us little Internet people, and the rescues, will just have to keep on, keeping on, praying people stumble upon us because nothing will change (for reasons already beaten into the ground.)
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 10:32:49 PM
Quote
I really wish we all had endless money so that we could obtain copies of The Paw Project's documentary to give to every vet that does the surgeries, and shove it in their faces.

Even if we did... DeeDee, I've been there and back just with the food issue.  Are you aware of just who calls the shots?   Even if a vet in a multi-facility has their own beliefs (regarding declawing or food), do you think they'd last long if they spoke up against company policy? Against everything they've been taught?  Against  ... just everything?   

Oblivious consumers who won't "believe" internet wackos and health freaks, do you think they'll get together and freak out like they do over an objectionable TV commercial? Or an offensive comment made by some TV or radio guy to get him PROMPTLY off the air? Or to get a cult favorite TV show BACK on the air? 
PEOPLE don't have to endure the pain themselves, so on it goes...

Ain't happening. 
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 10:39:10 PM
PS I knew someone who made sure the Dean in EVERY University had a copy of Dr. H's "Your Cat" along with heartfelt letters including TONS of research, among other monumental endeavours.
That was over 6 years ago. NOTHING has changed on that end.  Frankly, it's sinking even lower where I am.  MORE people I know SWEAR by things which the mass recalls SHOULD have woken them up about 7 years ago.
I should add: keep mentioning the more Western regions, (especially California).  Things are more advanced there, for whatever reasons.  All we have to do is look at peoples' locations on mass message forums. But in the wrong area, totally screwed.
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: DeeDee on June 20, 2014, 10:40:52 PM
PEOPLE don't have to endure the pain themselves, so on it goes...

Ain't happening. 

Maybe we should be asking how they got it done in other countries?
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 20, 2014, 10:49:04 PM
Maybe we should be asking how they got it done in other countries?



Just going by what I've seen posted by participants on forums --  people from countries like Sweden, I think Australia .... they are shocked it's even done at all anywhere.   Hadn't even heard of it. 

Perhaps as Corporate "influences" branched out overseas, that's when bans became official, because the temptation was presented?  (That's what I gather, having read the shock of the Foreign people posting on citydata which is a relocation forum and covers everywhere.) 

Here it would be like putting the spilled gallon of oil back into the jug. Who wants to mess with that when in this country, it appears that TV "celebrities" and what people who haven't been seen in 20 years are posting on facebook are just toooooo important to ignore for one second for such trivial (in comparison) things as pain & discomfort we can't even feel ourselves.
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 21, 2014, 09:17:19 AM
Will cross-post this its own thread but I think it's best in illustrating the point I'm trying to make, so here it is:


Last Year, 2013:

Quote
(ANIMAL CRUELTY) Apparently getting your pet tattooed and pierced is an actual thing now. It’s a big enough problem that assembly member Linda Rosenthal is working on implementing legislation that would prevent irresponsible guardians from inflicting such reckless pain on their pets. Linda Rosenthal said, “There are hundreds upon hundreds of Youtube videos and websites that show animals that have studs in their ears, tattoos on their backs, and it’s really horrifying…I want to make it a criminal offense.”

As for the temporary dog tattoos, Rosenthal still thinks gluing rhinestones on your pitbull is wrong-headed. “You have to let them have their integrity and dignity. And putting stupid little sparkles on them, I think it looks foolish,” she said.
“People have to understand that animals are separate from human companions. They’re not an extension of them, and you should not do things to your animals that you would do to yourself.
    http://www.globalanimal.org/2013/05/03/tramp-stamps-arent-meant-for-dogs/


   http://www.globalanimal.org/2013/05/03/tramp-stamps-arent-meant-for-dogs/


And then this happened this year, a mere 3 months ago:


Quote
Posted: 03/06/2014 1  Outrage After Brooklyn Tattoo Artist Mistah Metro Inks His Own Dog, Posts Photo

The ASPCA condones the use of tattooing for only identification purposes following spay or neuter surgery.

A tattoo artist in New York was very proud that he had given a tattoo to his dog, but now he’s getting some backlash.
He posted a photo of his dog with its new tattoo to Instagram with the caption “My dog is cooler than yours!”
The dog had her spleen removed and he figured, as long as she was under anesthesia, he might as well give her a tattoo. The tattoo has his wife’s name and a heart.
Online, people were angry and a spokesman for ASPCA denounced it.

... he had to quit his tattoo job because of all the attention.


http://wgntv.com/2014/03/07/internet-flips-out-after-man-posts-photo-of-tattooed-dog/

I don't endorse doing such things to pets, of course, but the dog was under his Vet's care -- under sedation at the time due to an operation --  and this dog's owner career is that of a Tatoo Artist! 

Now:

Quote
Sorry New Yorkers, You Can No Longer Tattoo Your Pets

http://time.com/2901069/new-york-tattoo-pet/


Quote
New York Passes Bill To Outlaw Tattooing Pets

June 19, 2014 3:04 PM ET
  http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/06/19/323687311/new-york-passes-bill-to-outlaw-tattooing-pets?


Quote
Medical marijuana and safer streets may be a wash, but Albany has reacted swiftly to one particular scourge: pets with tattoos & piercings. A bill banning companion animal tattoos and piercings for any reason other than identification or medical purposes passed both houses and now awaits Governor Cuomo's signature.
“Companion animals, such as dogs and cats, will no longer be subject to the selfish whims of their owners, who place vanity above the health and safety of their animals,” the bill's sponsor, Assemblymember Linda Rosenthal said.

http://gothamist.com/2014/06/19/piercing_tattooing_your_pet_will_so.php


Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 21, 2014, 09:31:35 AM
Is declawing banned there yet?   There have been henious images of decalwed cats, and images of their declawed "Claws" posted all over for how many YEARS now.   Anyone know if any US  cities or states have banned declawing yet?
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 21, 2014, 10:20:11 AM
Meant to include this, from the TIME link:   http://time.com/2901069/new-york-tattoo-pet/

Quote
Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal introduced the animal rights bill in 2011 after she discovered “gothic kittens” with tattoos and piercings for sale online, according to the New York Daily News. The proposal will now head to Governor Andrew Cuomo, who is expected to sign the law.

The bill... was designed to prevent animals from unnecessary body modification, which many believe is a form of animal cruelty. The only exceptions are piercings for medical purposes and tattoos for medical or identification purposes,

2011?!   Does this see the light of day if not for the (March, 2014) Tatoo artist, and people freaking out over him?

Yes there is a case for Instagram & other sites like that helping to expose this stuff. It's the priorities I have the issue with, due to what GETS the attention and action, with 3-word sentences tending to be the norm...

Anybody recall any fuss being made over the cats in 2011?  And that was a POLITICIAN who had an issue with it!!!!   IMO that seems just as bad, if not worse, than a skilled tatooist working on his dog under his Vet's supervision, JMHO.

IMO declawing is even WORSE, isn't it? 
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: DeeDee on June 21, 2014, 10:47:46 AM
Anyone know if any US  cities or states have banned declawing yet?

http://www.pawproject.org/legislation/
Title: Re: Is This Stuff True?
Post by: CarnivorousCritter on June 21, 2014, 11:19:18 AM
Wow, guess I wasn't exaggerating about California!!  NINE California towns have it banned!!!   :) DrLisaPiersonWorthy
(Sucks not to live there.) 


Also ( this was mentioned in one of the declawing threads smewhere, but to reiterate:)

Quote
In 2003, Dr. Conrad and The Paw Project team provided data about the debilitating effects of declawing to the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA), which then changed its position on declawing of wild and exotic cats to no longer condone it. The Canadian Veterinary Medical Association quickly followed suit.