Author Topic: Pookie's Vet Visit  (Read 76533 times)

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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2014, 10:01:41 PM »
I'll try to explain better tomorrow.  Get some rest.

xx

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2014, 10:03:47 PM »
I do have a food scale, but I don't see how I can measure the canned food, esp. while he's begging for breakfast or dinner.

Weigh the dish that it's going to be served in. Then figure out what the food should weigh. Add them together and make sure the dish with the food weighs that total when you measure to serve.
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Offline Lola

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2014, 07:25:15 AM »
What should be easy is always over-whelming.  IMHO  Add in the pet food companies that can't be trusted...more often than not.  Pet food ingredients.  Over vaccinations. The vet issues.   bangs head

 HeadButt

Do you have an exact feeding "system?"  X brand on a certain day or for a particular meal?  I don't, just curious if you do.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2014, 07:48:43 AM »
   Say you've decided to drop Pookie to 5 oz a day.  How many meals a day does he get?  Three meals a day?  Four?

Say three servings a day.  5 divided by 3 is approximately 1.6.  Put this dish on the scale, tare it (bring it to zero) then put 1.6 ounces of canned food in the dish. 

At this time you can either pre-weigh the remaining meals (I do, then put the dishes in those flat Hefty plastic containers.  Next meal, all I have to do is take out the dish, put it in a bowl of hot water to warm it up, and feed) or just repeat the process at the next meal time. Refrigerate.

Note in your journal that Pookie had 1.6 ounces at 7:00 a.m.  Repeat at next meal and the next.

The next day you will have .5 oz to start with.  Use that as part of the first meal of the day.  Put the dish on the scale, tare it, and put the .5 oz in the dish. Add enough of a new can to make 1.6 oz. And so on.  Each day you will start the meal with what is left over from yesterday, plus adding from the new can.

Soon it will all be routine.  If he doesn't lose, on this amount, after 2 weeks, you cut back another half ounce. If he loses too much, you add a little back in.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2014, 10:28:57 AM »
He gets 6 meals a day (1 5.5 oz can), plus a bedtime snack of raw, approx. 1 oz.  So total per day is 6.5 - 7 oz of food.  Note that not all cans are completely full, either.

He gets 3 meals in the morning, approx. 35 - 40 min apart:  the first two are ~1/8 can, the 3rd is ~1/4 can.  Supplements are added to the 2nd and 3rd meal -- the 1st is to make sure his tummy is calm.  That way if he horks, it's a small amount of food and he doesn't lose the supplements. 

The only exception is the Instinct chicken, which isn't a favorite (but it's carageenan-free so I include it anyway), where he gets 2 morning meals, both 1/4 can, because he takes FOREVER to eat the 1/4 can.  I add all the supplements to the first meal and have to crumble a lot of small PureBites duck treats on the food to get him to eat it.

The evening meals follow the same pattern as the morning meals.  Then at bedtime, I brush/comb him, and reward him with his snack of raw.  The commercial raws (RadCat, Primal) are packaged to 1 oz.  The tenders, gizzards and hearts aren't packaged by weight.  During the late spring and summer, he was also getting a cube of canned pumpkin every night for the hairballs, though he didn't always eat the entire cube.  I stopped giving the pumpkin about 1-2 weeks ago.

I will try to order the scale in the next couple of days.  I would hope that cutting back by 1/8 can (.6875 oz), that it's not too much to cut back at once, given he's also getting the raw in addition to the (almost) full can.  fingerscrossed
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2014, 06:59:36 PM »
Okay, yep your feeding schedule is much like mine!  HeadButt

I was so used to guestimating by quarter can and 8tyh can, using the scale took some adjusting, but it's soo much better, so much more accurate.  In fact I discovered that I was actually feeding very different amounts than what I thought I was.

7 ounces sounds like so much food. Jennie (9 lbs) gets 3.8 (sometimes less) ounces, Mazy cat gets 3.9 (currently, but will level off to 3.7 once she regains the weight she recently lost) and Queen Eva ( a very slender 7 lbs sometimes a little more sometimes a little less) eats between 4.5 and 5 ounces a day.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2014, 07:12:34 PM »
I just ordered the baby scale MC recommended.  It should arrive in the next week or so.  fingerscrossed

I also scheduled Pookie's dental/surgery for Wednesday.  I specifically requested that "No Convenia" and "No Metacam" be added to his chart, and expressed my concerns about Onsior, asking if there was an alternative.  The receptionist took down my comments, etc. and had someone call me back (I think one of the techs).  I sensed . . . resistance.  She didn't understand my concerns about either Convenia (it's convenient) or Metacam, and they've used them in the past with success.  I explained my concerns:  that Convenia is in his system for 65 days, and if he reacts to it, he's up a creek.  As for Metacam, it can cause (I may have gotten this wrong) liver damage (or is it kidney?  I'm still a bit out of sorts today).  And the Onsior is an NSAID, which cats don't usually tolerate well.

They're concern is for their patients:  if the cat is in pain, he may not eat and could develop hepatic liposis.  I said I understood, and again requested they use alternatives.  So they're giving him clavamox, which I need to start him on a few days ahead of time (apparently there is an infection), and they'll just give him the buprenorphine for pain.

There's a small part of me that wants to print off tons of stuff on these drugs and hand them to the vet, but I don't see the point.  If she's convinced these drugs are safe, nothing I say or give her will likely change her mind.  As long as they don't give him the drugs that I object to, I'll let it go.

BTW, I mentioned that this vet feeds raw.  To clarify, she raw feeds her dogs, but not her cat.   :-\  One of the techs that peeked in during his exam (before the vet came in) mentioned she also raw feeds, again her dogs but not her cat.  I handed her one of my cards with all the websites (catinfo.org, PFK  :D).

*sigh*  I don't understand why it hasn't occurred to them that if you can feed raw to a dog, you can certainly feed raw to a CAT!  Hopefully the tech will look at some of the sites and have an epiphany.  fingerscrossed

I also want to thank all of you.  Years ago, I don't know that I would have had the nerve to stand my ground.  I was so intimidated, thinking "well, this is a vet, they went to school for this and know better, who am I to argue?"  Yeah, those days are OVER.  At least part of that is because of folks like you, who have graciously shared your knowledge and journey.  I will always be grateful to you.  grouphug

One question:  should I hold off on cutting back his food until after he's recovered from the surgery?  It's less than a week away, and I don't want to inadvertently cause a problem somehow.  Plus, I should have the scale by then so I'll be able to track his weight loss.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 07:22:13 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #37 on: September 26, 2014, 07:19:32 PM »
7 ounces sounds like so much food. Jennie (9 lbs) gets 3.8 (sometimes less) ounces, Mazy cat gets 3.9 (currently, but will level off to 3.7 once she regains the weight she recently lost) and Queen Eva ( a very slender 7 lbs sometimes a little more sometimes a little less) eats between 4.5 and 5 ounces a day.

I don't know if it matters or not, but Pookie's always been a big boy.  "Big" meaning looooong.  When he stands on his back legs, he can reach the door knob.  He used to try to open my bedroom door when he was younger.  Thankfully, he never figured out that he had to TURN the knob to get it open!   funny2

Anyway, his weight was usually a steady 13 lbs, even when I was dry feeding.  It got up to 15 lbs when I was feeding the "prescription" IBD food that was mostly for his sister.  I was just learning about raw and how bad kibble was, and reading Dr. Hodgkins' book is what got me to pull the food.  When they went dry-free, they dropped weight over time and he eventually settled back to 13 lbs.  That's probably why I keep thinking the pumpkin had a lot to do with it.  But I could be wrong.  His rotation has also changed over the last couple of years, so some of those foods may also be higher in fat.  Or I could just be feeding him way too much!   :-[
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #38 on: September 26, 2014, 07:55:36 PM »
One question:  should I hold off on cutting back his food until after he's recovered from the surgery?  It's less than a week away, and I don't want to inadvertently cause a problem somehow.  Plus, I should have the scale by then so I'll be able to track his weight loss.

If it were my babies, I would until they'd recovered from the surgery. Never know what might happen--Especially when antibiotics of any kind are involved.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2014, 09:28:45 PM »
Yeah, no point in messing with the diet right now.  Get the dental over with first.

The specific antibiotic for dental infections is clindamyacin.  It comes in tablet or liquid.  I prefer tablets, I've always found giving pills much easier than giving liquid.

Dr Lisa Pierson has this to say about Convenia:

http://catinfo.org/?link=convenia

Metacam is known to cause acute kidney failure in cats.

Vet opinions:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/05/01/meloxicam-dangers.aspx

http://www.askavetquestion.com/metacam.php

I have not been able to find anything adverse on the internet about Onsior. Or much at all other than the link I already posted.

I hope you like the Salter scale.  I love it!  It did take the cats time to get used to it, but now they are resigned to the once a week weigh in.



Offline Pookie

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2014, 08:17:43 PM »
The specific antibiotic for dental infections is clindamyacin.  It comes in tablet or liquid.  I prefer tablets, I've always found giving pills much easier than giving liquid.

Too late, I picked up the clavamox today and start giving it to him tomorrow.  But I'll keep this in mind if he ever needs another one.

I saw Dr. Pierson's site on the Convenia when I was looking into how much to feed him (for him to lose weight).  That was one of the things I read that convinced me  I didn't want it used.  And I remember seeing all sorts of warnings about using Metacam in cats.  Thanks for the other links, MC!
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Offline Lola

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2014, 10:10:51 AM »
Too late, I picked up the clavamox today and start giving it to him tomorrow.  But I'll keep this in mind if he ever needs another one.


Is it pill or liquid form? 

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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2014, 02:02:23 PM »
I'm sure the clavamox is appropriate, too.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2014, 08:06:10 PM »
The clavamox is liquid form, and he's not tolerating it.  I gave it with his 2nd breakfast, and followed the usual timing.  I had class today, but left after he'd passed the 40 minute mark (usually if he keeps it down within 40 minutes of eating, it's staying down).  I came home late, he had thrown up all of his food.  Before I could feed him, he threw up pink bile.   :(  I gave Nux Vomica, waited 30 minutes and gave him a tiny bit of food.  Within 10 minutes, that came up, too, with pink bile.  I just gave him 1/4 pepcid (I hope -- he did NOT want to swallow it) and called the vet.  She advised waiting a couple of hours for the pepcid to kick in and then give a little food.  That's 11pm.   :(  So it's going to be a late night, and I may need to use the feeder.

Is the clindamyacin well tolerated, or does that upset the tummy?  I think she said it's strong.  We can try pill or capsule form of another antibiotic, which may be easier for his tummy, if I can get him to swallow it.  It's been a while since I've had to pill a cat.

There is a part of me thinking that the injection would have been easier, and then thinking, if that had caused him to throw up, he'd be like this for up to 65 days.  So maybe it's a good thing I didn't allow the Convenia.

I feel so bad for him.  This is all my fault, for waiting so long to get his teeth taken care of.  :(
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Pookie's Vet Visit
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2014, 08:30:52 PM »
http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Products/ApprovedAnimalDrugProducts/FOIADrugSummaries/ucm111195.htm

Quote
No relapses (reoccurrence of the initial condition treated within the 20-day treatment and observation period) were observed for the clindamycin or amoxicillin treatment regimens. One cat administered amoxicillin vomited on days 6, 7 and 8 of therapy and was listed as an adverse reaction by the study veterinarian. It is not unusual for a cat to vomit during administration of oral therapy.

They don't say what the percentages were though. At least not that I can see. Nor do I see any suggestions of what to do about it. I'm a bit too tired tonight to read and grasp all of that.

I HAVE seen this list in more than one place:

Quote
WHAT DOGS/CATS SHOULD NOT TAKE THIS MEDICATION?
Animals with allergies
Animals with liver or kidney disease
Animals that may be pregnant or nursing
Animals with a known hypersensitivity or allergy to this drug should not take this medication
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

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