Parenting-Furkids
Cats => Caring For Your Cat => Supplements => Topic started by: Middle Child on April 02, 2017, 09:23:41 AM
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Can anyone find out more info about this one? I can't tel if it meets Dr Hofve's criteria or not. The Denosyl is not going to work for us. The stress of pilling her daily is just too much for both of us. I did look this brand up on the brand's website first but it doesn't mention anything about this:
The standard dosage of milk thistle seed extract is based on a silymarin content of around 80 percent; most supplements contain anywhere from 50-500 milligrams (175 mg is typical). Silymarin is found mostly in milk thistle seeds, but in low amounts. Therefore a milk thistle seed extract will contain the richest source of this active component, as well as other natural compounds found in the seeds.
Because of its excellent safety record and lack of adverse drug interactions, when I’m treating a very sick animal with advanced liver disease, I do not hesitate to use the full human dose–up to 200 mg per 10 pounds of body weight–of milk thistle extract daily. For most purposes, however, one-third to one-half of that dose is more than adequate.
https://www.amazon.com/Herbsmith-Milk-Thistle-Herbal-Supplement/dp/B00541ABTU#customerReviews
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That quote is saying you need extract not the whole herb powders.
Let me do some looking around.
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Thanks Dee. I've e mailed them, but in the meantime while I wait, I am still looking.
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Now I remember where I read that it shouldn't be an ongoing thing:
However, milk thistle should not be used as a preventative, or a “just in case”; rather, it should be used as a means of cleansing the liver after exposure to toxins (i.e. drugs, vaccines, chemicals, etc.) or as a treatment to liver damage. Milk thistle stimulates the growth of new liver cells in order to replace those that are dead or dying, and helps protect against toxins which could cause further damage.
Remember, medicinal herbs shouldn’t be used for extended periods of time. Gregory L. Tilford and Mary L. Wulff explain in their book entitled Herbs for Pets: The Natural Way to Enhance your Pet’s Life: “Despite much of the publicity that has been generated about this ‘wonder herb’, milk thistle should not be used as a daily food supplement. Milk thistle is a medicine that is best reserved for situations in which the liver is already under abnormal stress.” Most holistic doctors feel that milk thistle should be administered for 3-6 weeks with a 1-3 week break.
How Do I Give Milk Thistle To My Dog?
The usual recommended extract of milk thistle contains 70 to 80 percent silymarin. Each extract should be labeled with the silymarin percent. The tincture can be administered at a starting dose of 1/4 tsp. per 20lbs of animal’s body weight per day. The daily dosage should be taken in 2-4 equally divided doses. With the powder format, administer 2-5mg per 1lb of the animal’s body weight, 2 to 3 times per day. Read labels carefully, discuss dosages and, although there are no known drug interactions, it’s always important to consult with your veterinarian.
From: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/milk-thistle-for-your-dog/
While those are directions for dogs, I'm pretty sure the same info and amounts can be applied to cats.
I think if I were you, and since she's so little, I'd go with this brand, or another organic one like it, but you need to be searching for "Milk Thistle Extract." I saw some in dropper bottles, but they didn't say organic:
https://www.thesynergycompany.com/milk-thistle
I also know that with milk thistle and humans, it's generally recommended that you slowly build up to the full dose over a week or so. The release of toxins from the liver can cause nausea, vomiting, etc. if done too fast.
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Thank you Dee. Yes, this isn't a just because supplement. Her ALT was elevated. Vet prescribed Denosly (sam-e) but the pilling of it is causing a lot of stress, not to mention the timing. Sam-e is supposed to be given on an empty stomach (not a problem) and then wait an hour before feeding (a very big problem)
There is just no way to manage that hour after the dose, and it's causing me a lot of anxiety trying to figure it out.
Milk thistle doesn't seem to have the same fasting requirement.
I've e mail the company for the one I link to.
The link you offered looks good, but I wonder what the powder inside the capsule tastes like, can it be opened and added to food. And I'd have to figure out dosing. But I do like the looks of that one.
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Thank you Dee. Yes, this isn't a just because supplement. Her ALT was elevated. Vet prescribed Denosly (sam-e) but the pilling of it is causing a lot of stress, not to mention the timing. Sam-e is supposed to be given on an empty stomach (not a problem) and then wait an hour before feeding (a very big problem)
There is just no way to manage that hour after the dose, and it's causing me a lot of anxiety trying to figure it out.
Milk thistle doesn't seem to have the same fasting requirement.
I've e mail the company for the one I link to.
The link you offered looks good, but I wonder what the powder inside the capsule tastes like, can it be opened and added to food. And I'd have to figure out dosing. But I do like the looks of that one.
Most extract isn't powder. It's a liquid. It's showing as liquids in a lot of the dropper bottles anyway. Vlad's Saw Palmetto extract is a liquid as well. Gel caps that have liquid if I poke them with a pin.
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The one you linked to above, that looks like powder in the capsule, the website states "each capsule equivalent to 50,000 mg of freshly harvested organic milk thistle seeds"
I like that they don't use chemicals for extraction.
Liquid or powder, doesn't matter to me, as long as it's palatable enough to add to food.
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I've e mail the company for the one I link to.
Sorry. I just saw this. I'm pretty sure the one you linked to isn't extract, and they say nothing about organic. I'd truly be afraid to not get organic with an animal that already has liver issues. You're risking adding more poison on top of an already compromised organ.
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The one you linked to above, that looks like powder in the capsule, the website states "each capsule equivalent to 50,000 mg of freshly harvested organic milk thistle seeds"
I like that they don't use chemicals for extraction.
Liquid or powder, doesn't matter to me, as long as it's palatable enough to add to food.
If it's powder, then they've dehydrated it after the extraction process. I doubt it tastes any different from the whole-herb powder in other brands like at Amazon.
I found an organic extract specifically for cats, but they put bacon flavoring in it? WHY? All that sodium in flavorings!
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I found an alcohol-free, organic one in the droppers FINALLY:
http://www.akins.com/shop/product_view.asp?id=1401207&StoreID=a59a6b1c10e44c9e9420a7a75b27460a&private_product=1
About the company:
http://www.akins.com/retailer/store_templates/ret_about_us.asp
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The Herbsmith does state that it is USDA organic certified.
If it's not the absolute most potent, but meets other criteria, I would not mind too much I don't think. I am not even convinced Mazy cat needs it at all. I will keep trying with the denosyl, and her retest will be in early May.
But I want other options in case I need them.
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I found an alcohol-free, organic one in the droppers FINALLY:
http://www.akins.com/shop/product_view.asp?id=1401207&StoreID=a59a6b1c10e44c9e9420a7a75b27460a&private_product=1
About the company:
http://www.akins.com/retailer/store_templates/ret_about_us.asp
But there isn't any information about dosage or if there are other ingredients, etc?
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The Herbsmith does state that it is USDA organic certified.
Herbsmith's "Organically grown," on the container is different from "Certified Organic," and that's what I keep on trying to find. Something with that on the label.
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But there isn't any information about dosage or if there are other ingredients, etc?
One of those times where the company has to be called or emailed, and dependent on the strength, some math will have to be done just like every other brand that's not specifically for cats and dogs.
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But if you can find something that's standardized to 333mg per 20 drops/ml, you can use their "Calculate the Dosage" calculator here:
https://www.petwellbeing.com/products/cat-liver-disease
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USDA organic:
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One of those times where the company has to be called or emailed, and dependent on the strength, some math will have to be done just like every other brand that's not specifically for cats and dogs.
But if you can find something that's standardized to 333mg per 20 drops/ml, you can use their "Calculate the Dosage" calculator here:
https://www.petwellbeing.com/products/cat-liver-disease
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Alcohol-free and Certified Organic:
http://www.hawaiipharm.com/m/milkthistle-pet-extract
They also have one with Dandelion in it too if you wanted to boost things.
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My head can't keep up with all of the posts, but I did want to point out something from Dr. Hofve's site:
NOTE: Consumer Lab® released a report in December 2009 regarding test results from 10 commercial milk thistle preparations. Only Jarrow Formulas® Milk Thistle contained the industry standard 70% silymarin; all the rest fell short. They suggest using a product containing milk thistle “seed extract” as opposed to “seed powder” or “whole herb” to get the most silymarin.
If you're not worried about potency as much, then don't worry about the above, but just be aware that other brands may say they have x% milk thistle extract but may actually have even less.
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You all are amazing! DrLisaPiersonWorthy