Author Topic: A little update on SK  (Read 6401 times)

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Offline Middle Child

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A little update on SK
« on: April 19, 2013, 07:56:02 AM »
Well the puke really hit the fan after I took them out on April 7.  SK, as is her habit, ate a lot of grass but didn't bring it up.  It sat in her system for NINE DAYS before I finally found it in her poop, and in the course of that nine days she regurgitated her Prey Model Meal nightly, until I stopped feeding any PMR to her at all.

Not wanting her body to get unused to raw in the evening I started giving her Rad Cat or Stella&Chewy's instead. (She gets Rad Cat in the morning).  I thought we were making progress, then last night she hurled her Rad Cat meal, and in it was a HUGE wad of fur. (she gets one capsule of egg yolk lecithin daily, split between morning and night)

It's beginning to appear SK may have a motility issue, if grass and fur is lodging for so long. Vet thinks so too.

So I am turning to the Slippery Elm Bark.  I've been holding off, saving it as a last resort kind of thing, but I think I am at the last resort place now. At first, I was thinking of using the SEB only on the days I take them out, usually once a week, on Sunday (my day off). SEB has anti-inflammatory properties, and it also "coats and soothes" the digestive tract. My thinking was, give it to her before we go out, so she has a protective coating before she even eats the grass, and hopefully it will also help the grass move through her system more quickly.

 But after seeing that wad of fur last night, I've decided to get her on a regular schedule of it, twice a week, one of those days always being Sunday whether we go out or not.

I gave her a little this morning.  Just 1/8 teaspoon stirred into a little water, (half the recommended dose) and then mixed into a little bit of Rad Cat. She ate it right up.

Offline Pookie

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2013, 09:20:29 AM »
fingerscrossed

I hope it works!  You are SUCH a good mommy!  grouphug   :-* HeadButt
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Offline Lola

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2013, 12:59:59 PM »
I know this is NOTHING like SK's situation (but may help someone else).  We had ONE that would try to shoot out an open door every so often.  She would haul butt right to a grassy area.  Within minutes, she would hork up a hair ball.  Sooooo, I started giving her Vet's Best more often... no running for the door.  No horking of hair balls. 

Back to topic...  I'm with Pookie... keeping all paws crossed for SK! 
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2013, 01:05:20 PM »
Thanks to you both.  I WISH she would bring up the grass.  I wish she would bring up the fur when her stomach is empty.  But no..she has to do it when her tummy has lots of nice raw food in it.

The other two cats don't vomit at all. Well Top Cat brings up the grass when she eats it. Otherwise no food, no hairballs ever, it all goes the way it is supposed to. But then, they didn't eat a hideously inappropriate diet for 6 1/2 years.

If the slippery elm doesn't help, I guess it will be time to put her through the diagnostics. But I'll give it a few weeks. She's not losing weight and her interest in play and interaction is very high. She poops and pees normally.


Offline Middle Child

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2013, 07:48:46 AM »
Someone extremely knowledgeable, who has given me invaluable help many times, has given me a lot of HOPE. She told me that choline helps with motility, and increasing SK's choline intake by adding more egg yolk to her diet may help with her GI issues.

SK does get an egg yolk lecithin capsule daily, but the EYL doesn't contain very much choline. So, in addition to the Slippery Elm Bark (SEB) twice a week, I am going to increase the raw egg yolks.  Right now they are only getting one a week.  SK is going to be getting 3 a week now.

Offline Pookie

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2013, 07:54:56 AM »
Thanks, MC!  Pookie had a small hairball 2 days ago, and horked both his 1st and 2nd dinner last night, which he hasn't done in a long time (I got home later than usual, and was going to split it into 3 meals.  I ended up splitting into 5 or 6 and giving him a dose of nux vomica [homeopathic remedy] after the 2nd "gift" came up) and I was thinking of this thread and wondering if I needed to give him more lecithin and how much is safe?  He gets 1 capsule a day, all at once.  So this is great information.

Now if only I could get him to eat egg yolk.  I've tried but he's not interested.   :(  I'll have to keep trying.

Thanks for sharing!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2013, 08:10:13 AM »
I don't remember who it was now, or the name of the post, but didn't someone here tell and show with photos of how they mix up a HUGE bowl of raw mixture and it had a lot of eggs in it?
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2013, 08:52:05 AM »
Raw egg yolk is in the recipe of quite a few home made ground mixes. Dr Pierson's http://catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood#The_Recipe included.

Here's another:

http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.html

Rad Cat also contains raw egg yolk.

Many PMR feeders give an egg yolk three times a week.

I've only been giving them once a week, so now I'm going to increase that.  Since SK won't (can't) eat a whole yolk at once I am going to give her a half yolk or even 2/3 of a yolk (depending on the weight ot each yolk, they are not consistent in weight) four days a week, Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday. The other two cats will take turns getting the other half of the yolk.  She will get the Slippery Elm Bark on Sunday and Wednesday.

Pookie I had to use a topper for a while for two of them with the egg yolk.  I don't any more, but at first I used a dusting of Vets-Best hairball relief or even Forti-Flora, just to get them started.

The person who is advising me is a PMR feeder, but feeds ground meals three times a week specifically for her cats who otherwise won't eat egg yolk, she mixes the whole yolk in their ground meal. She is a researcher by vocation, I trust her, and I feel very lucky to have her in my corner!

I am feeling a lot more hopeful.

Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2013, 01:57:31 PM »
My monsters don't care for plain yolk either. 
But I find that a spoonful of tuna or liver juice seems to perk their interest.
I blend a couple eggs (for 5 animals) in a separate container with the juice, then pour it over their meals.
Sometimes there's still a bit left on the plate, but most of it goes down with the meal.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2013, 02:11:44 PM »
I am happy to announce that SK likes the Slippery Elm Bark! (SEB) bananamiddlechild bananamiddlechild bananamiddlechild

Today she had a whole dose, 1/4 teaspoon of powder mixed with 1 teaspoon of water and about .05 oz of canned food. She ate it right up!

Even though it is sunny we are not going out today to test the SEB helping with grass theory.  There are several reasons. 

First, it is sunny but not warm.  Second, it's only been a couple of days since the regurgitation has stopped, I want to give her a lot longer than that with the SEB and egg yolk before I let her near grass again, plus reintroduce the Prey Model meals,  and third: my bad foot has again been injured by being stepped on by a dog and I need to stay off it as much as possible. 

PS She's just coming off her two week phase of daily pepcid, today, too.

Quote
I blend a couple eggs (for 5 animals) in a separate container with the juice, then pour it over their meals.

Whole eggs, or just egg yolk?  Raw egg white contains avidin which can bind with Biotin (a B vitamin) creating a potential deficiency, so it is better to avoid to much raw egg white, so I have read time and time again.




Offline Pookie

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2013, 08:24:50 PM »
Whole eggs, or just egg yolk?  Raw egg white contains avidin which can bind with Biotin (a B vitamin) creating a potential deficiency, so it is better to avoid to much raw egg white, so I have read time and time again.

Thanks for asking, MC, because I was going to ask the same thing.  I was wondering if I just scramble a whole egg or do I have to separate the yolk from the white.  Though I thought the yolk has a lot of biotin, so with the white it's balanced?  I could be wrong, though.  I do seem to recall that in kitties with CRF, they should just get the white in order to "dilute" the phosphorus in their food while adding good protein.  But that's a whole other subject.   Bumpurr1
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2013, 08:59:10 PM »
Thanks for asking, MC, because I was going to ask the same thing.  I was wondering if I just scramble a whole egg or do I have to separate the yolk from the white. 


Cooked?  No separation needed, it is only raw egg white that is a problem, cooking inactivates the property in the avidin protein that binds to Biotin.

Quote
Though I thought the yolk has a lot of biotin, so with the white it's balanced?  I could be wrong, though.

I don't know. Seems that rather than balancing, the raw white would simply deplete any biotin benefit from the raw yolk.

 
Quote
I do seem to recall that in kitties with CRF, they should just get the white in order to "dilute" the phosphorus in their food while adding good protein.  But that's a whole other subject.   Bumpurr1


Yes. But that's cooked egg white mixed into the food, to add more protein to the phosphorus ratio,  not raw egg white.


Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2013, 03:24:03 AM »
The general consensus that I've seen by fairly knowledgeable rawbies is that using the whole egg as a once a week type of thing is fine.  The excess biotin in the yolk tends to balance out any negative effects of the avidin.  You may end up with slightly less biotin advantage, but it is generally considered better balance to use the whole egg.

The exception would be in the case of CRF, where one might be using the white as a phosphorous reduction regimen.   Since egg white is a great source of protein without the phosphorous, it is often recommended as a "replacement" element in the diet.  In this case, one would be feeding a lot of egg white without the yolk, and therefore it becomes more important to neutralize the avidin by cooking the whites.

Hope that made sense... I'm really tired tonight.   sleepinggif
meow meow meow meow meow meow? -woof!
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Offline Pookie

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2013, 08:50:04 AM »
Cooked?  No separation needed, it is only raw egg white that is a problem, cooking inactivates the property in the avidin protein that binds to Biotin.

Nope, sorry, I meant raw.  Though I've tried to get him to eat cooked scrambled egg, and he seems interested but then after it's in his mouth, he drops it.   *sigh*

The general consensus that I've seen by fairly knowledgeable rawbies is that using the whole egg as a once a week type of thing is fine.  The excess biotin in the yolk tends to balance out any negative effects of the avidin.  You may end up with slightly less biotin advantage, but it is generally considered better balance to use the whole egg.

Thanks, FMM!
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: A little update on SK
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2013, 08:57:39 AM »
The general consensus that I've seen by fairly knowledgeable rawbies is that using the whole egg as a once a week type of thing is fine.  The excess biotin in the yolk tends to balance out any negative effects of the avidin.  You may end up with slightly less biotin advantage, but it is generally considered better balance to use the whole egg.

The exception would be in the case of CRF, where one might be using the white as a phosphorous reduction regimen.   Since egg white is a great source of protein without the phosphorous, it is often recommended as a "replacement" element in the diet.  In this case, one would be feeding a lot of egg white without the yolk, and therefore it becomes more important to neutralize the avidin by cooking the whites.

Hope that made sense... I'm really tired tonight.   sleepinggif

Makes very good sense thanks.  I'll stick with just yolk though.

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