Author Topic: The Outside Dilemma  (Read 64022 times)

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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2014, 06:19:20 PM »
Pookie,
Do you freeze pumpkin in ice cube trays?

I do. :)

But only for Jennie.

Pookie, I tried Mazy cat with pumpkin a couple of years ago, as I was trying to find an alternative to the petroleum based hairball gels. She hated it, and to get enough into her I had to put tiny amounts in every serving of food I gave her.  She was hungry so she ate, but she hated it.  I just couldn't do that to her for long, I want my cats to enjoy their food.  I know you feel the same way.

Mazy's main issue is lack of motility, complicated with acid reflux.  Sadly, so far, there just isn't any perfect solution to it. So we keep on keeping on.  I just can't deprive them, and myself, of our yard time.  I've cut it to once a week, but I just cannot cut it out completely. I love it as much as they do.

And besides, she has just as much trouble the rest of the year, so what the heck anyway.

Offline Lola

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #46 on: June 02, 2014, 08:26:27 PM »
Freezing pumpkin... You two think of EVERYTHING.  :)

I rotate out the foods that some eat... just eat to eat.  You can tell, if they are thrilled or not.  Like you, I want them at least a little excited.  Bouncing off walls and such... reallllly makes me happy!
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2014, 04:36:16 AM »
Jennie is the only one who ever shows excitment aout food around here.  Queen Eva might squak a little over a PMR meal now and then but she is not all that interested in food.  Mazy isn't finicky, but I think she gets stomach aches after eating, so she isn't all that enthusiastic either.

Offline Pookie

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2014, 11:47:31 AM »
Pookie,
Do you freeze pumpkin in ice cube trays?

Yes.  I got that idea from someone, either here or Catster.  Pookie actually likes the pumpkin, and I've had to start giving it to him every night because the hairballs were happening more often.  I don't know that there's any real nutritional value for him, and I consider it a carb, which he doesn't need, but I tell myself it's mostly water and fiber, and knock wood it seems to be helping.  I will say, his pee clumps in the litter box have definitely gotten bigger, so it's helping keep him hydrated!   ;D

There are some canned foods I give him that he is NOT enthusiastic about, but I keep them because he needs variety (one is the Nature's Instinct duck) and because they don't have carageenan.  *sigh*

I'm sorry the pumpkin idea won't work for Mazy.  I'm wondering . . . you mention acid reflux and that you think she gets stomach aches after eating . . . . I'm taking a nutrition course (for people) and one of the things we just covered was that usually, acid reflux isn't due to too much acid, but rather a LACK of acid.  The food is fermenting in the stomach (rather than being broken down by stomach acid), and the fermenting causes gas (burping).  So I'm wondering if Mazy needs MORE acid, and that might help her tummy aches since the food would actually be digested.  I'd have to research this, but I wonder . . .
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 11:51:13 AM by Pookie »
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #49 on: June 03, 2014, 12:33:29 PM »
Yes.  I got that idea from someone, either here or Catster.  Pookie actually likes the pumpkin, and I've had to start giving it to him every night because the hairballs were happening more often.  I don't know that there's any real nutritional value for him, and I consider it a carb, which he doesn't need, but I tell myself it's mostly water and fiber, and knock wood it seems to be helping.  I will say, his pee clumps in the litter box have definitely gotten bigger, so it's helping keep him hydrated!   ;D

There are some canned foods I give him that he is NOT enthusiastic about, but I keep them because he needs variety (one is the Nature's Instinct duck) and because they don't have carageenan.  *sigh*

I'm sorry the pumpkin idea won't work for Mazy.  I'm wondering . . . you mention acid reflux and that you think she gets stomach aches after eating . . . . I'm taking a nutrition course (for people) and one of the things we just covered was that usually, acid reflux isn't due to too much acid, but rather a LACK of acid.  The food is fermenting in the stomach (rather than being broken down by stomach acid), and the fermenting causes gas (burping).  So I'm wondering if Mazy needs MORE acid, and that might help her tummy aches since the food would actually be digested.  I'd have to research this, but I wonder . . .

HMMMMMMMM......

How would I make her tum more acidic I wonder.  It's right after she eats (as is her regurgitation). She will often crouch, looking uncomfortable for 10 or 15 minutes after she eats, before settling.

Offline Pookie

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2014, 01:15:34 PM »
HMMMMMMMM......

How would I make her tum more acidic I wonder.

That's what I'm trying to figure out.  There are supplements for humans (betaine hydrochloride) but I haven't found a supplement for cats.  It's possible a human supplement would work, but I don't know what the dosing would be.

Adding apple cider vinegar to her food might help, but again, I don't know how much would need to be added, or if she'd even eat it.

I did see on earthclinic.com (under humans, not pets) that a lot of people improved their acid reflux by taking probiotics, but I'm assuming you're already doing that.  Maybe increasing the dose would help?

I also read somewhat that digestive enzymes would help, but they need acid to begin breaking down the food.  I also know you used them for a while but it didn't seem to help (maybe because there wasn't enough acid?).

Lots of "maybe's" . . . I'll keep looking . . .

P.S.  Another thing I've learned as that we produce LESS acid as we age.  I don't remember how old Mazy is, but I just wanted to toss that info out there.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2014, 06:47:21 PM »
I wish I was more efficient searching for information.  I have a bottle of l-methionine powder here I bought in case she needed a urine acidifier.  I've never opened it.  Could you help me find out if this might help acidify her tum?

Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #52 on: June 04, 2014, 04:49:24 AM »
I forgot to answer your other questions.  Mazy does take a probiotic.  She is on ProViable DC.  I've tried outer, human, probiotics but there is always something in the "other ingredients" that she can't tolerate.

I finally found an S. Boularii that doesn't contain any dairy or grain products and two weeks ago I started her on that (in addition to the proviable) she is getting about 1/4 capsule of the S. Boulardii every morning, and the proviable dc at night.

I was not happy with the results of the digestive enzymes.  I was using Prozyme, the original forumla.  The only improvement I saw after 6 months or so on it was her whiskers got big and full, she'd always had skimpy whiskers.  But she became quite inactive, and that bothered me enough that I took her off it. Once off the Prozyme her activity level returned to normal.

Offline Pookie

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #53 on: June 04, 2014, 10:05:42 AM »
Yep, I remember you using the digestive enzymes and the results.  I'm wondering (and this is all speculation based on what I'm currently learning) if the reason they weren't as effective is because (again, speculating) she has low stomach acid.  Without the acid to break down the food, the enzymes have a hard time doing their job.

L-methionine is an amino acid.  This is what I got from WebMD:

Quote
Methionine is an amino acid. Amino acids are the building blocks that our bodies use to make proteins. Methionine is found in meat, fish, and dairy products, and it plays an important role in many cell functions.

Methionine is used to prevent liver damage in acetaminophen (Tylenol) poisoning. It is also used for increasing the acidity of urine, treating liver disorders, and improving wound healing. Other uses include treating depression, alcoholism, allergies, asthma, copper poisoning, radiation side effects, schizophrenia, drug withdrawal, and Parkinson's disease.

So it would acidify her urine, but not necessarily the tummy.

Going back to the betaine, the more I thought about it last night, the more I wasn't sure about it, because I don't know if it's safe for cats.  I don't know if anyone's even tried giving it to a cat.  From what I understand, though, it's synthetic, not a natural supplement, which is why I'm not sure about using it for Mazy.

So I would lean more towards the ACV (with the mother in it -- ShopRite sells the Bragg brand which doesn't have the mother), as that's definitely natural.  If I wanted to try using it, I would think maybe take a dropper and add 1-2 drops (I forget what her meal sizes are, but I think they're small) and mix in her food and see how it goes (assuming she'll even eat it).  If she eats it and nothing happens, increase by a drop, and so on.  But this is all me just guessing here, and I have no desire to inadvertently make things worse.  I've heard of people adding ACV to their dog's food (I don't remember why), but cats are not dogs.

Side note:  one of my posts mentioned that we produce less stomach acid as we age.  I have NO idea if the same is true for cats and dogs.  I tend to think that, when it comes to things like this, what's true for one mammal is true for another, but that's just me.   :)
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Offline Pookie

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2014, 11:59:02 AM »
Ok, now I'm finding information that says betaine HCl is natural.  So when I visit my health food store this weekend (the owner knows everything), I'll ask her.  Meanwhile, this is the article I found that says it's natural:

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/betaine-hydrochloride/

I also tried to check Dr. Becker's site to see if she mentioned anything about it, but couldn't find anything.  I then searched their pet products and found this, which includes the betaine HCl:  http://shop.mercola.com/product/healthy-pets-digestive-enzymes,271,90.htm.  I don't know if you'd want to try it, since it also has digestive enzymes, but they may actually work better since this includes the betaine.

I almost forgot:  I did read that catnip soothes the tummy.  I think you've given it to her when she was showing signs that she was going to vomit, but it might help to give her some with every meal.  Just an idea.   :)
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #55 on: June 04, 2014, 01:32:26 PM »
Ok, now I'm finding information that says betaine HCl is natural.  So when I visit my health food store this weekend (the owner knows everything), I'll ask her.  Meanwhile, this is the article I found that says it's natural:



With this info out there, I wouldn't take it or give it to my pets:

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-312-BETAINE%20HYDROCHLORIDE.aspx?activeIngredientId=312&activeIngredientName=BETAINE%20HYDROCHLORIDE

Too bad pets don't have the same oversight governance that humans too. The side-effects tab would worry me too since stomach irritation was listed as a possibility with it.
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Offline Pookie

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #56 on: June 04, 2014, 04:07:14 PM »
Thanks, Dee, that was the link I saw that had me thinking it's not natural.  That said . . .

I'm considering the source.  A site like WebMD, IMO, is not going to be very positive about supplements.  If it can't be proven in a lab over and over again, they don't recommend it.  Which I understand to a point.

I find it ironic that it was banned because "there wasn’t enough evidence to classify it “generally recognized as safe and effective.""  And yet, how many things are in human food that the FDA lists as Generally Recognized as Safe and Effective that shouldn't actually be in food?  Like cellulose, for example.

Assuming that Mazy has low stomach acid, the side effects wouldn't be an issue.  The betaine would, theoretically, actually help with any "heartburn" she may be having.  They would be an issue if she has too much stomach acid.  If she has stomach ulcers . . . well, ok, then I wouldn't suggest it.  We do know that she's not pregnant or breast-feeding.   Silly7 (sorry, I couldn't resist).

This is all just my  2cents.  For my own curiosity, I still plan to ask the owner of my health food store (she's also an RN) about betaine HCl.  But I totally understand the hesitation in trying the betaine, or anything at all.  If MC wants to try anything, it might be better to start with 1 drop of ACV per meal and go from there.  Or she could just leave well enough alone.   :)
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #57 on: June 05, 2014, 04:37:07 AM »
Mazy is 10 by the way, kept forgetting to answer that.  Thanks for all your time and effort Pookie.  I may try the ACV.  I always have Braggs in the  house and yes, with the mother in, because I take it myself.

Offline Lola

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2014, 05:47:39 AM »
This may (or may not) be of some help.

I found this, when I was reading that she gives her cats Bio-Kult.

http://feline-nutrition.org/answers/answers-the-importance-of-gastric-acidity
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 05:54:44 AM by Lola »
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: The Outside Dilemma
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2014, 12:01:54 PM »

I found this, when I was reading that she gives her cats Bio-Kult.


The article got me to wondering about cats and digestive enzymes (like dogs need for carbs) since I couldn't find enzymes in Bio-Kult, and I found this:

http://consciouscat.net/2010/02/08/benefits-of-digestive-enzymes-for-pets/

This is one of the few brands I can find without lactose though. At least I think cats are lactose intolerant.

http://www.goodpet.com/cats/feline-digestive-enzymes/

But you could look for different brands to see if you can find others without lactose. I'm not going to link a ton of things because, I'm sorry, but I can't remember if she's already on enzymes or not.
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