Pookie's Vet Visit

[DeeDee]

Ooooo. I know what that stuff is now and it IS strong!!!

It's Cleocin!  http://www.drugs.com/clindamycin.html

[Lola]

The clavamox is liquid form, and he's not tolerating it.  I gave it with his 2nd breakfast, and followed the usual timing.  I had class today, but left after he'd passed the 40 minute mark (usually if he keeps it down within 40 minutes of eating, it's staying down).  I came home late, he had thrown up all of his food.  Before I could feed him, he threw up pink bile.     I gave Nux Vomica, waited 30 minutes and gave him a tiny bit of food.  Within 10 minutes, that came up, too, with pink bile.  I just gave him 1/4 pepcid (I hope -- he did NOT want to swallow it) and called the vet.  She advised waiting a couple of hours for the pepcid to kick in and then give a little food.  That's 11pm.     So it's going to be a late night, and I may need to use the feeder.

Is the clindamyacin well tolerated, or does that upset the tummy?  I think she said it's strong.  We can try pill or capsule form of another antibiotic, which may be easier for his tummy, if I can get him to swallow it.  It's been a while since I've had to pill a cat.

There is a part of me thinking that the injection would have been easier, and then thinking, if that had caused him to throw up, he'd be like this for up to 65 days.  So maybe it's a good thing I didn't allow the Convenia.

I feel so bad for him.  This is all my fault, for waiting so long to get his teeth taken care of. 

My thoughts, in no particular order. 

Antibiotics are often over prescribed (as I think you already know)... for people and pets.  BUT it isn't like Pookie has been given antibiotics in massive amounts.  If I wanted to "error" on the safe side and/or go with what the vet suggested... I would do so, with no worries. 

As far as him not tolerating it, at least he could throw it up!  With Convenia, he would be screwed. 

If it helps any, I crush Roxy's Pepcid and put it in the middle of her food.  It can't be on the bottom and it can't be on the top... in the middle.  I don't even attempt to pill her.

Dr. Pierson was asked her general opinion, concerning antibiotics and dentals.  Her response:

individual medical/nutrition advice cannot be provided. However, for a *general* answer, it depends on what the radiograph showed (any bone involvement?), as well as the rest of the gingival tissues around the extracted tooth. But, again, **in general** I rarely use ABs for extracted teeth and strongly feel that they are **significantly over-prescribed.** This echos the general views of the boarded veterinary dentists who are also very outspoken about the overuse of ABs for dental issues. My own personal cats, over the past 20 years, have probably had at least 20 teeth extracted between all of them and I have never used ABs for a single extraction and have never had a problem.

I am NOT saying, or suggesting, you skip the antibiotics ... just giving you food for thought.  The above may not apply to Pookie's situation. 

You ARE taking care of him.  I bet most (if not all) of us, have wanted to turn back time... for a particular issue or circumstance. 

[Middle Child]

Tolly Angel had FORL, and always had to have antibiotics before and after dentals whether extractions were indicated or not (though he usually needed at least one), but he also had other health concerns (seizures, herpes)

After being on clavamox so many times, he became intolerant to it, I mean it made him very very ill, and that was when the vet started using clindamycin.  He tolerated the clindamycin very well.  I find pilling easier than liquid..

I understand the tendency to blame yourself for whatever a pet has to go through.  I do it myself.  But honestly, I wish you wouldn't.  None of this is "your fault".  Dental health is largely genetic, and dental problems really can't be predicted.

I also know the dread that accompanies this type of thing, and please know that we are holding our breath with you, all paws crossed and praying.   Pookie will be fine and so mucyh happier, after the dental surgery.

What anesthetic is the vet using?  I always insist on sevoflourane.

[Pookie]

I asked about the clindamycin, and the vet said it's strong.  I called them with an update this morning, waiting to hear back.  I was up til 12:30a giving him small portions, spread out 40 minutes apart, then had more in the timer feeder (2 trays) to feed him at 1:30a and 2:30a.  He kept it all down.

1st breakfast was about 6:30a, 2nd breakfast well after 7, and 3rd breakfast at 8a.  I was late for work this morning (shhhh!) and left home around 8:30a.  He had still kept everything down when I left. 

I have no idea what anesthetic they're using -- I didn't even think about it.     Why sevoflourane?  Are there any that I should absolutely insist NOT be used?

I understand the tendency to blame yourself for whatever a pet has to go through.  I do it myself.  But honestly, I wish you wouldn't.  None of this is "your fault".  Dental health is largely genetic, and dental problems really can't be predicted.

I also know the dread that accompanies this type of thing, and please know that we are holding our breath with you, all paws crossed and praying.   Pookie will be fine and so mucyh happier, after the dental surgery.

The thing is, Pookie never had a dental.  Ever.  The last vet appointment he had (before I stopped taking him 4 years ago), the vet said he had some gingivitis but the teeth looked ok.  So I feel bad that there was a problem starting, but I didn't do anything about it, including take him to another vet.  Granted, I'd been to just about all of them in my area, and I had other reasons, but now he's paying the price for my decision.     He's my responsibility, and I knew better.  (p.s.  I also freak when I see pink bile.  I came home from work one day to find it all over the house, because his sister couldn't stop vomiting.  I can only imagine the damage being done internally when that happens.  )

Thank you all for the support, crossed paws and prayers.  I love you guys!!!   

[DeeDee]

I asked about the clindamycin, and the vet said it's strong. 

I know the name Cleocin because that's what was on one of the bags of the IV drugs when I had pneumonia last year. I had it along with 2 other antibiotics. When I asked what I was being given, the nurse said they were all really strong and a cocktail of them should kill anything. I was also warned about telling someone immediately if I got diarrhea earlier, and it was then told to me that it's b/c the Cleocin COULD cause problems with some people. From what I've read, it can cause the same problems in cats and dogs as well. Somehow I get the feeling that getting diarrhea from Cleocin might be a really big deal.

[Pookie]

Thanks, Dee!

[Pookie]

The vet is going to give him amoxicillin.  We're sending it to a compound pharmacy to get it flavored (liquid) because there is no way on earth I can hold a 15 lb cat and try to use a pill gun to get a capsule in him, and there is no one to help me.  However, because we're compounding, I won't get the antibiotic in time so his dental has been postponed to next week.     The vet thinks he'll be ok for another week.  And yes, he definitely needs to be on an antibiotic prior to surgery -- it's not a precaution.  I am praying that he can tolerate the amoxicillin.    I don't want this to be delayed any further.

It occurs to me that if I had kids, I'd probably have a heart attack by the time they got to grade school, because I'd be a wreck every time something happened.

Meanwhile, if anyone has tips on how to give liquid meds to a cat, I'd appreciate it.  I've already been on YouTube, and will look at more there, but if you have tips you've used with success, that would be great.

[DeeDee]

Meanwhile, if anyone has tips on how to give liquid meds to a cat, I'd appreciate it. 

Do like training dogs? Treat, medicine, treat, medicine, treat, medicine?

Mix it up in a tiny bit of yogurt if the cat likes yogurt?

Mix it up in some warm goat milk?

[Lola]

Depending on the cat... I have "shot" liquid meds into their mouths, and I have mixed it in their food.  I have pilled dogs with no problem, but cats are a whole different experience.  At least for me!

Also, I was reading somewhere (a reliable source, I believe) about how uncomfortable it is for a pet to have to swallow a pill dry.  That got me to thinking how I would feel doing it for myself.  Yuckie! 

One of my cats was given chicken flavored amoxicillin once.  Circumstances changed and their were left overs.  Sooooo.... I tasted it.  I couldn't detect the slightest of chicken flavor!  lol 

I have kids.  Kids were easier!   

[Shadow]

Hi Pookie sorry I have been away for a while. Just know that I hope everything goes well with the dental visit....purring for you 

[Middle Child]

The vet is going to give him amoxicillin.  We're sending it to a compound pharmacy to get it flavored (liquid) because there is no way on earth I can hold a 15 lb cat and try to use a pill gun to get a capsule in him, and there is no one to help me.  However, because we're compounding, I won't get the antibiotic in time so his dental has been postponed to next week.     The vet thinks he'll be ok for another week.  And yes, he definitely needs to be on an antibiotic prior to surgery -- it's not a precaution.  I am praying that he can tolerate the amoxicillin.    I don't want this to be delayed any further.

It occurs to me that if I had kids, I'd probably have a heart attack by the time they got to grade school, because I'd be a wreck every time something happened.

Meanwhile, if anyone has tips on how to give liquid meds to a cat, I'd appreciate it.  I've already been on YouTube, and will look at more there, but if you have tips you've used with success, that would be great.

I'd give liquid the same way I give pills.  Use the holding position:  On your knees on the floor, cat held between knees facing out. Cats want to back away, they can't, in this position. Use a syringe rather than a dropper, more effective. Pry open mouth with one hand position syringe to be pointing toward same side of mouth syringe is on, as far in as possible,  (aim toward inside of cheek) and squirt. Quickly smear something like a little yogurt or butter on the mouth so cat will start licking and swallow.

Give a small amount of food either right before or right after, to help prevent upset stomach.

Give a probiotic while on the antibiotic, separate probiotic from med by at least 3 hours.

For what it's worth, Tolly never had any trouble with clindamycin, nor do I. (I was recently on it for a sinus infection and have taken it several times over the past few years because I am allergic to penicillin)

Hi Pookie sorry I have been away for a while. Just know that I hope everything goes well with the dental visit....purring for you 

Well where is Mango's update?

[Lola]

How are you and Pookie doing?

[Pookie]

I came down with an ear infection this week.    Pookie is his usual handsome self, but I did notice a cyst on his tummy the other day.  I'll ask if the vet can look at it when he's there for his teeth.

I'm hoping the antibiotic arrives today or tomorrow.  I have to start him on it on Sunday, and I have class again so I won't be home to see if he tolerates.  I'm reeeeeeeaaaalllly hoping he likes the flavor (chicken) and tolerates.  I don't want to drag this out, for both of our sakes.

Thanks for asking!   

[Lola]

Jeeeez, sorry to hear that.  Can you take the antibiotic that Pookie couldn't. 

[Middle Child]

Ear infections are AWFUL.  The pain is terrible!  I hope you feel better soon!