Author Topic: Question about crystals  (Read 9514 times)

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Offline Macy

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2011, 10:42:59 PM »
I am thinking of areas at this moment whee I can put water dishes around, and I really wish that there were flavors to put into it to make it more enticing to get them to drink it. 
Whatever happened seemed to have went as quick as it came, he is laying next to me doing the upside down thing and no trips to the litter box since he has been in.  So seriously, can a flair up like this happen by feeding a bad food just once?

Offline The Kittens

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2011, 04:56:22 PM »
Auntie Crazy is right.  :-* With a kitty that is prone to crystals or bladder issues, you cannot, feed fishy stuff, or fishy flavored foodies.  Bump won't eat wet. Period. To increase his water intake, he gets 1 teaspoon Gerber baby food, chicken or turkey ONLY, mixed with water, so its like a broth, twice a day, and this is per my vet, mol. He loves it, and I do this with the others too, as I don't need another kitty with crystal or urinary issues.

I understand, if Macy does not like or cannot/will not eat Blue Wilderness, but there are other grain free foodies out there. Grains are one, of many, and the most common, cause of crystals.  C/D is full of them.

The reason vettys put kitties on C/D and S/O, is because, they are high in salt, which ya know, if ya eat something that is real salty, it makes you thirsty, so ya drink more.  Which is what these foodies are trying to achieve, and they are on the right tract, trying to increase the water they take in, BUT, it really, is not enough, and there are much safer ways, to increase their water intake.   Heart kitties cannot, has foodies, that is high in salt.   

Hey, there is a cat show, in Brockport, Oct 22 and 23. I won't be going, Cowboy brought home something from the show in Syracuse, and it hit hard and fast, I had 3 down, at one point, plus myself, it strikes within 4 days of exposure. Not going to take the chance of exposing him or any of them, as he would be seeing most of the same cats, we is on lay up for a few months, mol.  thumbsup1 cat4 :-* TexasFlag bumpgif grouphug 

Offline Macy

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2011, 06:09:35 PM »
It's not that he wouldn't eat the blue wilderness, he loved it, but he had a flare up on it and once I stopped feeding him it he was fine.  I had such high hopes that it was going to do the trick.  The only other change that I am changing back is that I changed their water dish to a black one and it seemed like they weren't drinking water like they used to.  I changed it back today to see if the water dish change was the issue.  I am going to try the baby food again but he is so fussy that he didn't care for any of it the last time.  You know maybe it is seafood, he and I shared some peel and eat shrimp the weekend before last and I let him drink the liquid from the shrimp after it unthawed.  The vet said that it shouldn't cause issues but I will stop giving it to him and see if that works.  cat3

Offline Lola

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2011, 08:01:47 PM »
Macy,
 
Some cats transition to wet easily.  Some don't.  But it CAN be done.  I had to use EVERY trick in the book for some of our felines.  It took a lot of time (months) and patience...but I was successful.  Persistence WILL pay off.

Quotes from Dr. Lisa Pierson DVM

Quote
One reason that cats like dry food so much is because the pet food companies do not play fair when
manufacturing this sub-optimal food source.  They coat the kibble with extremely enticing animal digest
sprays which are very pleasing to a cat
- making a poor quality diet very desirable to the target animal.  -
Quote
The single biggest mistake I see people make time and again is to say that their cat "won't touch" the new
food and then panic and fill up the bowl with dry food.   In many cases, it is simply not that easy to get cats off of dry food!  So, roll up your sleeves and be prepared to patiently out-stubborn your cat. (See Molly's
story at www.catinfo.org – Feline Obesity page - for a look at one very stubborn cat.)     

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, for the sake of Macy's over-all health, do NOT give up transitioning to an all wet grain free diet.  (Raw would be the best, but...one step at a time.  ;) )

Exactly how are you feeding Macy now?  Free fed or scheduled meal times?  Does Macy willingly eat wet and dry?  I (and others) can help you with transitioning tips. 
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Offline Macy

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2011, 08:32:35 PM »
Right now he is free fed C/D dry since that is the only thing that appears to not cause flair ups.  When I do give him wet, It is either Royal Canine, Soulistic chicken or chicken and pumpkin ( both he will eat but not enthusiastically) and an occasional Meow Mix cup which the vet has told me is just terrible for him but it's the only way I can get any wet food into him.  The only wildlife that he will eat when he catches it outside is red squirrels, the rest he just kills and leaves.   I have tried every type of wet food that there is out there, and I am not lying about that, but he just sticks his nose up at it, and to me it just seems like it is worse for him not to eat anything at all than to eat the C/D.

I am just at my wits end again and trying to replay what could have brought this back up, he was good for almost a year.  Last week was the peel and eat shrimp and juice, and the week after that was 1 cup of meow mix.  Other non food changes were the changing of the water dish and I did deflea him with Advantage.  We also had a new propane stove put into our house that was a bit of a ruckus, but that was only for a day.  Oh and also I started working full time instead of part time.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2011, 09:36:36 AM »
It could be a combination of the stress and the variation in diet.

 I, too have a cat, female, who, if she eats anything but the Hills c/d has a recurrence of her FLUTD.

I have tried putting her on a grain free all canned diet.  For her, it does not work.  The c/d is the ONLY food that keeps her healthy, and she won't eat the canned c/d, so she eats c/d kibble.  I hate that she is on this crummy food, it causes me a lot of stress, but quality of life is the most important thing for her, and this food gives her a happy pain free life.

Sometimes we just have to choose the lesser of two evils.  If the c/d is what keeps Macy from having urinary tract flare ups, then so be it.  Better the c/d than a painful (possibly fatal) blockage.

Let us know how he's doing.

Offline The Kittens

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2011, 03:49:09 PM »
Stress is another biggie, cause of crystals, bladder issues, so it may have been that.

You can only feed them, what works for them, or what they will eat. The key, is to keep them flushed out, this is beyond imperative, whatever they are eating.  You do not do it by tuna juice or shrimpy juice, or even chicken broth, that one too, is a big no no. You have to do it with water.

For me, the baby foodies mixed with water works. When Smokey gets pickey, I just mix her dry food with water.
She also eats it all right up, she has been trained to do that, and whatever she doesn't finish, I give to the kittens, who are little garbage disposals, mol. It does not sit out, that will cause bacteria to grow on it.

Hope Macy is feeling better soon, next show in Brockport, is in March, will be going to that one, hope to see you there.   :-* cat4 TexasFlag bumpgif grouphug

Offline Macy

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2011, 06:54:16 PM »
Bump remind me when it gets closer to the show,  I just became a natural support for one of my individuals at the home I work at and if I can get a wheelchair accessible van I would like to take her to it.   :D

As for Macy, his pees are getting a bit bigger although he is still going allot.  I am thinking that this is a mild flare up because he is acting totally normal and isn't even licking after he goes and not squatting for long period, and that is what gets me.  Totally normal except for the baby pees.  Right now they are about the size of golf balls or large marbles.  Funny thing is that when he sprays it is a full healthy stream.  Plus Sonny has stopped attacking him, which I am now starting to take as a sign that Macy is flaring, that is when Sonny seems to go after him more.

When I go shopping tomorrow I am going to pick up some baby food and see if I can get him to eat that.  I have one question though.  Macy has never had an issue with drinking milk so I wonder if I should give him some once and awhile to add more moisture to him?   

Offline The Kittens

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2011, 07:31:07 PM »
I would say no to the milky too, mol, as some kitties it gives diarea and/or they throw it up, think I read on
catty fur, that some kitties are lactose intolerant, or whatever its called, Shadow might remember it.  ::)

Had that happen to me, back on the 4th of July, last year, gave Bump a little milky, he threw it up and kept throwing it up, so called my vet, who thank G, gives me her cell for emergencies with Bump. She told me what to do for him, and said...... no more milkys!   Bumpurr1

You want Gerber baby foodies, and it has to be chicken or turkey ONLY, and this is per my vet, and stay away from Beechnut, opened too many jars, that were bad, they were not expired, and the tops had not been opened.  Beechnut blew me off, so I blew them off, will no longer buy their product.  >:(

You only give 1 teaspoon, mix with lukewarm water, so its like a broth, twice a day.   Bumpurr1 cat4 TexasFlag bumpgif   

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2011, 09:22:51 PM »
But baby food (and milk for that matter) are both things that will mess with the balance that the c/d is working to maintain.

I'm glad his pees are getting bigger, that must mean he is peeing fewer times, which means if it is 'only' inflammation causing his problem, the inflammation may be going down.

Is Macy on cosequin for cats to help support the bladder walls?

Offline Macy

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2011, 10:17:54 PM »
He was on Cosequin for awhile, but the only way I could get it into him was with his meow mix cups, which he can't have anymore.  What I might do is see if I still have some around and sprinkle it on the dry food....I guess it couldn't hurt.  :-\

Offline Auntie Crazy

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2011, 11:19:33 PM »
Right now he is free fed C/D dry since that is the only thing that appears to not cause flair ups.  When I do give him wet, It is either Royal Canine, Soulistic chicken or chicken and pumpkin ( both he will eat but not enthusiastically) and an occasional Meow Mix cup which the vet has told me is just terrible for him but it's the only way I can get any wet food into him.  The only wildlife that he will eat when he catches it outside is red squirrels, the rest he just kills and leaves.   I have tried every type of wet food that there is out there, and I am not lying about that, but he just sticks his nose up at it, and to me it just seems like it is worse for him not to eat anything at all than to eat the C/D.

I am just at my wits end again and trying to replay what could have brought this back up, he was good for almost a year.  Last week was the peel and eat shrimp and juice, and the week after that was 1 cup of meow mix.  Other non food changes were the changing of the water dish and I did deflea him with Advantage.  We also had a new propane stove put into our house that was a bit of a ruckus, but that was only for a day.  Oh and also I started working full time instead of part time.

It is pretty much impossible to transition a kibble addict to canned or raw when you're free-feeding kibble. Until - or unless - you switch to scheduled feedings, you're just wasting your time and resources plopping down any canned foods.

As for the recent flare-up, the tuna juice would be enough of a cause all by itself, but your increased hours at work could also, unfortunately, have been stressful enough for a sensitive, already UTI-prone, kibble-fed cat to have a problem; the two together is just a double-whammy. (The shrimp may have contributed as well, but I've not read anything definitive on that yet.)

Feline urinary tract issues are man-made; the fix is to return the cat to its natural diet. I wish I could tell you something more palatable.  <<hugs>>

Best regards.

AC
AC's Crew: Allen, Rachel, Meghan, Spencer, Heather & Ralph

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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2011, 11:31:02 PM »
It is pretty much impossible to transition a kibble addict to canned or raw when you're free-feeding kibble. Until - or unless - you switch to scheduled feedings, you're just wasting your time and resources plopping down any canned foods....

Best regards.
AC

So very true.

On Feline Diabetes message forums, they spoke of the cats being able to sense the container they used to store the kibble in no matter where they tried to hide it (like in basements), and their cats holding out. The cats would act desperate to get down to the basement or whatever hiding place it was. Once all traces were gone, then they could get their cats eating well (and subsequently into remission  thumbsup1.) 

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2011, 11:47:08 PM »
I am thinking of areas at this moment whee I can put water dishes around, and I really wish that there were flavors to put into it to make it more enticing to get them to drink it....


Just a heads-up:  Because a cat has a naturally low thirst drive, if a cat is drinking a lot of water, it is generally considered a 'red flag'  (because the cat is dehydrated and unfortunately most people don't realise this until Sub Q & syringes are required....)
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 11:51:21 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline Lola

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2011, 01:41:36 PM »

On Feline Diabetes message forums, they spoke of the cats being able to sense the container they used to store the kibble in no matter where they tried to hide it (like in basements), and their cats holding out. The cats would act desperate to get down to the basement or whatever hiding place it was. Once all traces were gone, then they could get their cats eating well (and subsequently into remission  thumbsup1.) 

When I was transitioning ours to wet (we had 4 felines at the time), the first thing I did was stop free feeding dry.  I started with one meal dry, one meal wet, etc.  Then I decreased the dry as I increased the wet.  Personally, I wouldn't recommend that routine.  lol  If I had to do it all over again, I would totally remove ALL dry from the get go. 

SOME of the felines accepted being fed dry for one meal and wet for another.  Some held out for the dry meals.  As long as they KNEW dry would be made available, at some point and time, they would hold out. 

When feline number 5 (previously owner fed dry kibble only.) was added to the family, she adjusted to wet with no problem!

Felines 6 & 7 joined the family at the same time.  They were also previously free fed dry... with the occasional wet as a snack.  They didn't question the absence of dry kibble at all. 

I'm not sure why I took the "long road," when transitioning the original 4 to wet.  lol

Just a heads-up:  Because a cat has a naturally low thirst drive, if a cat is drinking a lot of water, it is generally considered a 'red flag'  (because the cat is dehydrated and unfortunately most people don't realise this until Sub Q & syringes are required....)

VERY good point! 
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