Author Topic: Question about crystals  (Read 9521 times)

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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2011, 06:45:55 PM »
He was on Cosequin for awhile, but the only way I could get it into him was with his meow mix cups, which he can't have anymore.  What I might do is see if I still have some around and sprinkle it on the dry food....I guess it couldn't hurt.  :-\

My girl eats the prescription kibble.  When I give her the cosequin, I put about a tablespoon of water in the dish, add 1/16 cup of kibble, stir it so the kibble is wet and sprinkle the cosequin over it.  I'm lucky, she likes it, and it doesn't even need to be mixed up much.But if Macy objects to the powder, let it dissolve in the water, then put the kibble in. I only feed her a small amount at a time.  She eats 1/2 cup of c/d a day broken into 4 meals and two snacks.  She regurgitates if she gets too much at once, even with an elevated dish.  She used to get 1/2 cup plus 1/8 cup of kibble a day, but when they changed the shape (larger) she began to gain weight, so I had to reduce the amount.  I mean, she is getting the same amount of calories every day, but I have to feed fewer pieces, because they are larger.

I know there is some controversy about cosequin being beneficial, but I believe in it.  And it's not expensive, and it can't hurt her, and she likes it.   So there is no reason for me not to give it to her.

I wish I could get my senior boy to take it.  He's starting to stiffen up a bit, but he will not eat food with cosequin added to it.  I could just shove the capsule down his throat every day, but he already takes pills four times a day (phenobarbital 2x, denosyl 1x and ursodiol 1x), I really hate to add another until absolutely necessary.

My little girlie that's gone to the Bridge a while back, she wouldn't eat the cosequin sprinkles either, and she took the capsule down the throat.  She also took many pills a day, but her arthritis was really bad.  My boy's is just starting.

Offline Shadow

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2011, 11:18:56 PM »
Dont mean to go off post, but where do you guys get Cosequin from?? I want to get some for Shadow for her arthritis.
I see it on ebay, but im not sure if they will ship to Canada? and leary if its really the stuff on ebay.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2011, 09:51:22 AM »
I get it from entirelypets.com. They purchase Nutramax supplements direct from the manufacturer, I checked, as I also get Denosyl, Welactin and ProviableDC from them. And feliway. :)

Amazon also carries Cosequin, but I prefer enitrelypets for these particular items.

I'm not sure about shipping international, you'd have to check.  Always google entirelypets.com coupon before making purchases.

Offline Shadow

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2011, 12:14:56 PM »
I get it from entirelypets.com. They purchase Nutramax supplements direct from the manufacturer, I checked, as I also get Denosyl, Welactin and ProviableDC from them. And feliway. :)

Amazon also carries Cosequin, but I prefer enitrelypets for these particular items.

I'm not sure about shipping international, you'd have to check.  Always google entirelypets.com coupon before making purchases.
I just checked and international orders are 36$ for shipping, yikes!!!! :(
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Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2011, 03:57:41 PM »
I get it from entirelypets.com. They purchase Nutramax supplements direct from the manufacturer, I checked, as I also get Denosyl, ...

Just as a side note, when Pippin had his liver issues, I learned that "Denosyl" is essentially the same thing as SAM-e (S-Adenosyl Methionine), and "Marin" is nothing more than Milk Thistle seed extract (silymarin).

I found an online supplement store that I really like, primarily because they have very detailed descriptions of their products, how they work, pertinent studies, and possible interactions with other products.... It is called www.wholehealth.com, they have even branched into www.wholehealth.com/vitamins-supplements/pet-health - pet version of a few supplements.


I just checked and international orders are 36$ for shipping, yikes!!!! :(
I don't know what the charges would end up being for you, but here is Whole Health's www.wholehealth.com/vitamins-supplements/shipping-terms shipping page.
Another reason I like Whole Health, is that they give price breaks for buying in larger quantities.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 03:36:40 PM by Lola, Reason: Whole Health had an issue with the "masked" link to their website. »
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Offline The Kittens

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2011, 06:15:25 PM »
At one time, they were giving Cosequin, for bladder issues, but no more, I forget why now. The last time Prowler had bladder issues, back in May, I asked about it, she said they no longer give it. My vet is beyond, on top of new procedures, medicines, etc.  She even attends vet conferences, you guys should ask your vettys, if they do, and if not, why not.   :-*

You can get Cosequin from your vet, it is $9. You used to be able to get it at Petsmart, but now they only sell the GNC crap, which I won't touch.  I would check Petco or Pet Supplies Plus.   :-*

Yes, baby foodies, given un diluted, will cause diarea. I forgot Bump's foodies at one hotel, all I had was a jar of baby foodies, yup, had diarea, got yelled at, mol, for forgetting his foodies, I never forgot again, first thing I pack, to go to the hotel.  We give a few licks, of baby foodies, as treaties, at shows. Gave Cowboy too many, he had diarea Sun morn at the hotel, had to wash his back end in the hotel sink, called my vet, she told me what to give him, and got yelled at again, for giving too many lickys, mol, mol, mol.

The key, is to only give 1 teaspoon, and mix it with water, so its like a broth, no more than twice a day, unless told different, by your vetty. This is what Bump gets, never had a prob.

What balance of C/D?  If you mean the urine concentration, the only way to tell, for sure, if you need to adjust it, is to have an urinealyasis done.   :-*

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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2011, 08:04:12 PM »
Some say cosequin is not any help, some say it is.  I believe it is and will keep her on it and continue to recommend it to others.  It CAN'T hurt, and MAY help :)

The problem with the baby food in this particular situation is not diarrhea, it is, any variation off the prescription food affects the 'benefits' of the food.  Yes the c/d multicare prescription c/d kibble food is full of awful things, but for whatever reason,It Works.  Adding any other food, including baby food, on a regular basis negatively affects the the way the food works.

Too much baby food can cause constipation problems in cats, but I know we aren't talking about "too much" baby food, here.  It's just that Macy seems to have a flare up any time his diet is varied off the c/d. It may be "only" inflammation, but inflammation is very painful and causes a lot of stress, even above the pain, for the cat, and in males, even inflammation can cause blockage, because a male's urethra is so narrow.

Offline Macy

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2011, 10:19:11 AM »
Just a quick check in to let everyone know that Macy I believe is past his crisis, and back to his bouncy self.   cat4

Paws crossed that I can refrain from giving him things he shouldn't have and I may try again on higher quality food, but so far the only thing that works is just C/d only C/D and nothing else but C/D.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2011, 10:27:08 AM »
Thanks for the update.  As horrible as the food reads on paper, I'm glad it's available since I too have a cat who, to stay healthy, can eat nothing but the c/d.

Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2011, 03:25:20 PM »
Glad to hear that things have cleared up.

I kinda wonder if... just meandering thoughts here... if some of these issues that we see in cats these days is because essentially we are dealing with generations of "damaged goods", if you will.
Consider, in Pottenger's cats, he saw unhealthy cats within just a few generations of kibble feeding. 
We now have several generations of kibble-fed cats.  There is no way to "un-do" the damage, so we deal with the immediate problems by compensating with "manufactured" solutions.
Really, the only way to reverse the damage done to these generations of kibble fed animals, is to feed raw at earlier ages, and breed the raw fed animals for healthier future generations.

...I hope that made sense.
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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2011, 04:37:53 PM »

...I hope that made sense.

It certainly did!   thumbsup1 :)
 
Diet, Kidney Disease and the Urinary Tract  
Written by Elisa Katz, DVM CVA    


Quote
There is a connection between what cats are fed and what diseases they might get. This is an idea that is becoming much more widely accepted. Diet plays a role in disease syndromes such as kidney disease, urinary problems such as stones and crystals, Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease and gastrointestinal problems such as IBD.

The kidneys regulate the water and salt balance in the body, maintaining hydration, electrolyte levels and regulating blood pressure. As proteins are metabolized by the body for energy, by-products are produced and circulated in the blood. It's the kidney's job to remove these toxic substances...

...As much as 75% of kidney function must be lost before we can detect abnormally high blood values for these substances. Sometimes we see increased thirst and urination before the blood values rise above normal, as the kidneys become less able to conserve water, but not always. Since so much kidney function is lost by the time disease is usually detected, we need to do everything we can to help our cats maintain good kidney health in the first place...

The type of diet you feed your cat can directly affect your cat's kidneys. Dehydration in cats causes the kidneys to concentrate urine to try to maintain the body's water balance. Concentrating urine predisposes a cat to renal injury.¹ The chronic, mild dehydration that cats experience when fed dry foods exclusively can cause increased stress on the kidneys, leading ultimately to decreased kidney function. Also, the low magnesium content in diets designed to decrease urinary stone and crystal formation may adversely affect the kidneys over time.²
http://feline-nutrition.org/health/diet-kidney-disease-and-the-urinary-tract


Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins
Quote
As an obligatory carnivore, the cat’s GI tract is short compared with that of the dog or humans. During evolution, the cat’s gastrointestinal tract adapted to the intake of calorie-dense, vegetation-poor foods by reducing its length and ability to undertake prolonged digestion of fibrous foods. High fiber foods ignore this fact, providing an unnatural burden on the feline GI tract that results in excessive system bulk and reduced nutrient absorption.
  http://www.diabeticcatcare.com/protocol

Sure other factors may or may not contribute as well, but thankfully these veterinarians like Dr Pierson are getting ALL the facts out there  :)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 04:39:44 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline Auntie Crazy

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2011, 11:44:45 PM »
...
I kinda wonder if... just meandering thoughts here... if some of these issues that we see in cats these days is because essentially we are dealing with generations of "damaged goods", if you will.
Consider, in Pottenger's cats, he saw unhealthy cats within just a few generations of kibble feeding. 
We now have several generations of kibble-fed cats.  There is no way to "un-do" the damage, so we deal with the immediate problems by compensating with "manufactured" solutions.
...

No question about it. I volunteer at a local rescue / shelter and I've seen some of the degenerative issues Pottenger's describes. My Ralphie's back legs are a prime example (thankfully, they don't impair his ability to walk, run or jump in an indoor setting). And kittens don't thrive as well as they used to, either.

In fact, Banfield has noted a decades plus decline in overall pet health: Banfield Pet Hospital State of Pet Health 2011 Report. The AVMA tentatively concludes this can be traced to decreased vet visits, but that doesn't ring true to me at all. I think we're seeing the direct results of feeding our pets a lifetime diet of Ring Dings and Crispy Cremes.

Furthermore, the "establishment" KNOWS this. It is NOT a secret. I purchased the latest edition of The Nutrient requirements of dogs and cats by the National Research Council (U.S.) Ad Hoc Committee on Dog and Cat Nutrition, which, among many other digestive topics, goes into great depth examining the complexities of the relationships between the cat’s digestive physiology and chemical workings and the foods it eats.

There are studies conclusively linking kibble to both cancer and urinary tract issues. Unfortunately, the governmental agencies that could be ringing the warning are too closely linked to the companies profiting from the current pet food manufacturing processes to do so.  :(

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Offline Lola

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2011, 12:24:28 PM »
No question about it. I volunteer at a local rescue / shelter and I've seen some of the degenerative issues Pottenger's describes. My Ralphie's back legs are a prime example (thankfully, they don't impair his ability to walk, run or jump in an indoor setting). And kittens don't thrive as well as they used to, either.

In fact, Banfield has noted a decades plus decline in overall pet health: Banfield Pet Hospital State of Pet Health 2011 Report. The AVMA tentatively concludes this can be traced to decreased vet visits, but that doesn't ring true to me at all. I think we're seeing the direct results of feeding our pets a lifetime diet of Ring Dings and Crispy Cremes.

Furthermore, the "establishment" KNOWS this. It is NOT a secret. I purchased the latest edition of The Nutrient requirements of dogs and cats by the National Research Council (U.S.) Ad Hoc Committee on Dog and Cat Nutrition, which, among many other digestive topics, goes into great depth examining the complexities of the relationships between the cat’s digestive physiology and chemical workings and the foods it eats.

There are studies conclusively linking kibble to both cancer and urinary tract issues. Unfortunately, the governmental agencies that could be ringing the warning are too closely linked to the companies profiting from the current pet food manufacturing processes to do so.  :(

AC

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Offline Shadow

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Re: Question about crystals
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2011, 05:38:23 PM »
Just got some cosequin for cats at petsmart, they finally got some in.  Do should I start out slow with this stuff? Ive heard it can give diahrea?
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