Author Topic: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery  (Read 6531 times)

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Offline Lola

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Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« on: August 15, 2011, 09:53:51 AM »
http://www.city-data.com/forum/cats/649645-perineal-urethrostomy-p-u-surgery-cats-14.html

This thread has been bumped.  More EXPENSIVE surgeries and dry food recommendations.    :o

Were we just "lucky?"  I hate to ASSuME a simple fix, of a change in diet, is all it takes.  

I messed up, after the first blockage, by feeding "quality" dry (and wet).  Fast forward to the second blockage...our male was given fluids via an IV.  Wet foods only.  He was on the road to recovery within 48 hours... MAX.  Surgery was NEVER mentioned.

Do any felines, that are being fed wet only, ever have blockages?  If so, as often as dry eaters?

Am I not considering something?  Am I missing something???

For the record...I TOTALLY get it that felines don't have a strong natural thirst drive, therefore dry eaters are always dehydrated.  I TOTALLY get it that dry food causes sooooooo many medical issues because it is NOT a species appropriate in any way, shape, or form.  I TOTALLY get it that nutritional training for vets is minimal and the training they receive is FROM the carpy food manufactures.  BUT...WHY aren't these vets interested in learning the CAUSE of blockages?

PS
The posts that I read at City-Data...all the felines were (and continue) to be fed dry...before and after surgery.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 02:22:10 PM by Lola, Reason: URL issues... »
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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2011, 02:24:27 PM »
Just a hunch, but it looks like a vicious cycle.  Cats are kept/put on these dry foods to combat crystals, when it could very well be the cause of more serious blockage issues down the road.

Quote
Cystitis (bladder inflammation), Urethral Blockage, Bladder/Kidney Stones:

Please see http://www.catinfo.org/?link=urinarytracthealth for a more detailed discussion. The first paragraph on that webpage states:


If I could have the reader take away just one word from this discussion, it would be "water".  If your cat is on a properly hydrated diet of 100% canned food - and no dry food - you stand a very good chance of never needing to read this webpage.
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This is because of a cat's naturally low thirst drive.

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Cystitis can lead to inappropriate urination (urinating outside of the litter box) and stones can cause a fatal rupture of the bladder by blocking the outflow of urine.

It is important to note, however, that "crystals" are not the same thing as stones.  Crystals are often a normal finding in a cat's urine and it is not necessarily appropriate to put the cat on a "special urinary tract" formula when these are found in the urine.

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Important: I often see too much clinical significance placed on the identification of crystals in the urine without regard to how the urine sample was handled.  It is very important to understand that crystals will often form once outside of the body within a very short (30-60 minutes) period of time.  If the veterinarian does not examine the urine right away and either sends it to an outside laboratory or uses a free-catch sample that the owner brought from home, an erroneous diagnosis of crystals may be made.  This is called a "false positive" report and results in unnecessary worry on the part of the owner and often leads to the cat being placed on an inappropriate, low quality diet.

http://www.catinfo.org/#Cystitis_

The Doctor makes too much sense.  Just a vicious cycle, IMO. 

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2011, 02:27:06 PM »

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2011, 02:35:41 PM »
Do any felines, that are being fed wet only, ever have blockages?  If so, as often as dry eaters?

"If I could have the reader take away just one word from this discussion, it would be "water".  If your cat is on a properly hydrated diet of 100% canned food - and no dry food - you stand a very good chance of never needing to read this http://www.catinfo.org/#Cystitis_ webpage".


 
BUT...WHY aren't these vets interested in learning the CAUSE of blockages?
PS
The posts that I read at City-Data...all the felines were (and continue) to be fed dry...before and after surgery.

It's probably the same answer for declawing, over-vaccinations....

We need to be as careful choosing a veterinarian, as we do in choosing a food for our pets. Apparently the surgery is to make the opening in the penis bigger, so that a cat will continue to eat species-inappropriate food.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 02:38:39 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline Lola

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2011, 02:39:05 PM »
CC,
Everything you posted, I pretty much learned from my vet...after the second blockage.  (Different vet for the first blockage.)

Are you reading any of the recent posts at CD? (Link I posted)

Quote
I've just been through a horrible week with my one year old Prince. He was unblocked from his first episode and came home and within a day he was back to the vet and the next day back to another specialty vet - Metropolitan in PA. So far I've spent $3000 and tey are now recommended PU surgery for $3500. I love this cat and so the surgery will most likely happen tomorrow. Here are my questions: it seems like everyone is saying their cat now urinates outside of the box. Does this stop? Why does this happen? How can i help prevent it? Also do vets negotiate the cost of this surgery? I am a single mom and having to spend almost $7000 in 2 weeks is tough, but I cannot even consider the alternative. Finally- does anyone know about Metropolitan? Thanks for your help!

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Hi! I'm Angie. My cat, Jeff, had the P.U. surgery after getting blocked twice. These past couple of weeks have been emotionally, physically and financially draining. I have to take a semester or two off of college to get a full time job to pay back a mess of people I had to borrow money from. And to help my parents catch up on their bills, because they helped me the most. But my cat is doing very well. Thank God. We cannot afford anything else to go wrong. I have no idea where we'd find the money to help him if anything else goes wrong. It makes me angry that vets don't have payment plans. It's absurd and outright cruel to ask people to pay thousands of dollars up-front. And then, if you can't, you're a bad parent. -_-'

Ok. I'm done ranting. Sorry.

I've been giving my cat a dry food soup. The vet prescribed him Royal Canin SO. At first, he didn't want to eat it. But when I poured water into his dry food, he ate it up happily. Which is really weird for my cat because he's never had a water drive, you know? He would sip water here and there, but now he really loves the stuff. During his surgery recovery, I would give him tuna soup and crush his pill medication into it. It was the only way he'd take his medication. I also made sure his water had antibiotics in it. The crushed pill form. He wouldn't get close to anything that had the liquid antibiotics.

I occasionally give him wet food. Occasionally, because wet cat food gives him diarrhea. I duno if that's just my cat or if that happens to other people's cat. He loves the tuna soup, though.

I have a question, though, for those with experience:
It's been a little over a month after his surgery. The vet took his sutures out 13 days ago. Is it normal for him to pee blood? He does this occasionally. He did it a week ago and then he peed out what looked like a clot. And then he peed fine again. He's using the litter box, which I'm very grateful for and he doesn't drip, which I heard happens to some cats. But he does occasionally pee blood. Has this happened to anyone after the surgery? Is it normal? Does it eventually go away?

I'm worried after my little buddy. He doesn't appear to be in any pain. And he still pees a lot. :/

Quote
Yes, blood in the urine is very common. Fletcher had it weeks after the surgery. If the blood lasts longer than a few weeks, take him back to the vet. But what they had told me is that it's good that he's urinating, even if there is some blood. There's a lot of healing happening in there.
The biggest thing is if he stops peeing.

Yes, Fletcher loves when I make "soup" out of his food. He (and all the other cats) love the Purina UR OT/SX prescription food. He loves it dry & crunchy, but also with water in it. He also loves the Cat-It fountain we got, which constantily has water running in it. Cats who have been through this need to drink a lot, and the fountain stimulates them to drink.

Hope Jeff continues to get better!





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Offline Lola

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2011, 02:53:26 PM »

Apparently the surgery is to make the opening in the penis bigger, so that a cat will continue to eat species-inappropriate food.


 wow1  <---And I don't mean that in a good way!

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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2011, 03:22:35 PM »
CC,

Are you reading any of the recent posts at CD? (Link I posted)

Yup. That was one of the things I'd like an animal attorney to see. Thought about reviving the "prove obligate carnivore thing in court of law" thread because that cd thread is Prime Exhibit A.
Also, that surgery costs thousands of dollars   :o

Offline Lola

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2011, 03:50:21 PM »
I'm just sick about it all...
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Offline Shadow

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2011, 05:24:33 PM »
 bangshead bangshead
Do you not think that most vets would know about Elizabeth Hodgkins, Lisa Pierson, Michael W. Fox, Marion Smart, Kymyth Schultz???.....and the list goes on.  Though especially Hodgkins since the film she was on, the books she has written, how she has gone to court about pfc's.  You think these other vets would learn a thing or two.
Either their heads are stuck in the sand, or they are "in bed" with the PFC's
Its disheartening if someone like her cant open their eyes,then how are we supposed to.
I do not bash vets for the work they do, but when it comes to feline nutrition, they need to open their minds.  Instead of giving drugs, and operations, why cant they prevent some things in the first place with nutrition. :-\
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 05:53:43 PM by Shadow »
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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2011, 05:46:41 PM »
In that thread, the last post by the newbie looks too much like a "canned" response.   Almost advertisement-esque  :o  (they have 2 posts total.)


As long as the legitimate info is not deleted, it's all good because this person appears even more ignorant (actually an obvious plant, IMO.)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 05:48:27 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2011, 05:53:01 PM »
bangshead bangshead

I do not bash vets for the work they do, but when it comes to feline nutrition, they need to open their minds.  Instead of of giving drugs, and operations, why cant they prevent some things in the first place with nutrition. :-\  

I am going to guess that it is the same "group" of vets with the mentality that de-clawing is fine, along with the vaccines every year.

Just saw a big banner yesterday in front of a facility about "Don't Forget Dogs Yearly Flu Shots" (paraphrasing, would have to take a picture.)  
 It's been up there a while....Do dogs get the Flu in the summer?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2011, 06:03:57 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline Lola

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2011, 07:00:28 PM »
bangshead bangshead
Do you not think that most vets would know about Elizabeth Hodgkins, Lisa Pierson, Michael W. Fox, Marion Smart, Kymyth Schultz???.....and the list goes on.  Though especially Hodgkins since the film she was on, the books she has written, how she has gone to court about pfc's.  You think these other vets would learn a thing or two.
Either their heads are stuck in the sand, or they are "in bed" with the PFC's
Its disheartening if someone like her cant open their eyes,then how are we supposed to.
I do not bash vets for the work they do, but when it comes to feline nutrition, they need to open their minds.  Instead of giving drugs, and operations, why cant they prevent some things in the first place with nutrition. :-\

 thumbsup1 thumbsup1
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Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2011, 12:12:35 PM »
(snip)... Instead of giving drugs, and operations, why cant they prevent some things in the first place with nutrition. :-\

Same reason human doctors don't... $$ muneee $$

When Pippin had his issues (due to severe constipation, "unprooveabley" caused by corn laden dry food)... I should say AFTER his issues had been somewhat resolved, my vet still wanted to perform another full liver biopsy (meaning cut him open again).  She pushed so hard for it, I was in tears.  I'd already spent nearly $3500 up to that point, and I simply couldn't afford anything more.  I finally got her to agree to a monitoring schedule, which I ended up dropping after about a year because it was quite clear to me that the new raw food diet was working wonders.

Let me be clear.  My vet is very good at what she does.  She is an excellent surgeon, and diagnostician, BUT she has blinders when it comes to nutrition.  I also understand that everyone wants to make $$ munee $$, and she makes $$ munee $$ by doing what she does best.  It's what she knows, and it's the game (with pharms & PFC's) that they all play.

Just like with human doctors, it is up to the consumer/patient to educate themselves so that they can speak intelligently about their issues.  But if we were to be completely honest about it, we'd have to admit that most of us are lazy.  If a doctor says, "Here, take these antibiotics for 3 weeks", that's what we do.  And the doctor makes $$ munee $$.  Same with Vets.


(sorry, I didn't see a money smiley  ;) )
.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 12:14:14 PM by FurMonster Mom »
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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2011, 01:24:25 PM »
Same reason human doctors don't... $$ muneee $$

Let me be clear.  My vet is very good at what she does.  She is an excellent surgeon, and diagnostician, BUT she has blinders when it comes to nutrition. I also understand that everyone wants to make $$ munee $$, and she makes $$ munee $$ by doing what she does best.  It's what she knows, and it's the game (with pharms & PFC's) that they all play.

....  If a doctor says, "Here, take these antibiotics for 3 weeks", that's what we do.  And the doctor makes $$ munee $$.  Same with Vets.


Believe me, I am all for researching and double-checking medicines prescribed to humans. A family member suffered from Gout and the culprits he was consuming regularly were not addressed by his MD, thus he continued to suffer despite medications and info provided via the Internet. However (and this is a big 'however' :) ) his doctor was not advocating, "prescribing" and selling him anchovies, beer, and gravies out of his office, either.
MD gave him the drugs because MD, not being a dietician, was merely doing his job of combating the symptoms as best he knew.  Not faulting the MD. I'd go to him in a heartbeat for things Medical; broken bones, surgery, the Flu....

And here's the catch:  An antibiotic is, legitimately and legally, "Medicine".   MDs, as well as Vets, are surgeons and diagnosticians and they prescribe medicine.

If an MD's education was funded by McDonald's and we were "prescribed" Big Macs and fries by said Doctor for our high cholesterol and bowel issues, would it be any different? Not to mention, the conflict of interest when the "funding" is taken into consideration? It is known and has been proven that such food in excess is the major contributor, yet the Dr. refuses to even consider it a possibility in his diagnosis, instead telling you to eat it?

This may be extreme but it's my opinion that "prescribing" dry kibble to a blocking cat, a Diabetic cat, is no different than a Doctor "prescribing" cigarettes to Cancer patients. Really, how is it any different? Only the species & diseases are different.

Also, with all that education, there is NO way that a veterinary professional is not aware of the physiology of a feline (and canine.)  Just no way they are not remotely aware of the anatomies.

I don't expect a veterinarian to know anything about diet, ours never pretended to. But for them to be advocating a specific food when they won't even recognise the fact these species are carnivorous?
 
It's akin to Chelsea Clinton insisting she is authorised to fix all the electrical problems in my house for a nice, hefty price when I consult her about Law, and her being able to legally make a livelihood doing both, and her father being the only person she has to answer to.  There is NObody to answer to (outside of the PFI, stockholders), as with MDs.


« Last Edit: August 16, 2011, 01:39:19 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline Pookie

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Re: Perineal Urethrostomy (PU) Surgery
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2011, 12:36:02 PM »
Believe me, I am all for researching and double-checking medicines prescribed to humans. A family member suffered from Gout and the culprits he was consuming regularly were not addressed by his MD, thus he continued to suffer despite medications and info provided via the Internet. However (and this is a big 'however' :) ) his doctor was not advocating, "prescribing" and selling him anchovies, beer, and gravies out of his office, either.
MD gave him the drugs because MD, not being a dietician, was merely doing his job of combating the symptoms as best he knew.

This is why the more I learn about feline health, and wonder how much of these issues also apply to human health, I lean more towards holistic medicine and healing.  Maybe I'm going overboard on it (like reading a book about vitamin B12, for example), but that seems to be the road I'm on . . .

FurMonster Mom:  LOVE how you wrote "muneeeeeee."   funny2
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