Author Topic: Just started on carnivora  (Read 7539 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Shadow

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1406
  • Country: ca
  • Just say no to Kibble Krack
Just started on carnivora
« on: August 10, 2012, 02:11:07 PM »
Hey peeps just started both my cats on carnivora raw pet food. www.http://carnivora.ca
and they both ate it!!! :o even miss picky pants!! only starting out small adding alittle bit to the side of their Wellness wet food.
so far so good.  any advice?? supplements needed? the website does not state to add supplements! may have to add some sort of fiber for constipation? if that happens, going to monitor closely!!
It looks like a really good company. :)
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline Amber

  • Charter Member
  • Chatter Bug
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: us
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2012, 07:22:05 PM »
First of all, congratulations!

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/making-raw-cat-food-for-do-it-yourselfers?start=4

I would consider the Carnivora grinds to be meat/bone/organ grinds much like the hare-today fringe and therefore recommend supplements, because we don't know what is lost during the grinding/freezing process. If you visit the link above, you can see the modifications recommended for such grinds. Personally I omit the psyllium as well. If you have any questions, feel free to ask!

Offline Shadow

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1406
  • Country: ca
  • Just say no to Kibble Krack
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2012, 12:52:21 AM »
Thanks Amber...i went to the link but could not find the recipe.  :-\
I did see that i need to add taurine, but not sure how much.
Its late just got home from work, and then I work early tommorow.
So will get back on here on sunday hopefully.
thanks again :)
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline Amber

  • Charter Member
  • Chatter Bug
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: us
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2012, 01:33:48 AM »
Sorry, I was at work and posting from my phone. The above link at the very top of the page gives the modifications; the recipe is on this page of the guide:

http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/making-raw-cat-food-for-do-it-yourselfers?start=1

The whole guide is 5 pages long, I believe.

Offline Shadow

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1406
  • Country: ca
  • Just say no to Kibble Krack
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2012, 10:26:53 AM »
Oh evay!!! that is a lot of supplements....if they were needed why would the company not put these in it?  would make a better product.  Now im not sure if this is going to work, In over my head again!!  Doh1
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline FurMonster Mom

  • Charter Member
  • Gabster
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 713
  • Country: us
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2012, 02:32:56 PM »
I disagree on the use of supplements.
Supplement companies market to people's fear, and I really really really hate that.

I'm of the mind that supplements should only be necessary if you are not feeding bones and organs with the meats, and/or are not feeding a variety of sources.  In the four years that I have been feeding raw, I have never used supplements.

This company states that they are using the whole carcass. thumbsup1  They also say that any single product is not necessarily balanced by itself, and encourage people to feed a variety for balance. thumbsup1 thumbsup1  And even then, they do also offer their own line of supplements along with instructions for use, but I get the sense that they are just for "safety net" or "situational" purposes.
meow meow meow meow meow meow? -woof!
Translation: "I can has my raw food? -please!"

Offline Shadow

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1406
  • Country: ca
  • Just say no to Kibble Krack
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2012, 12:52:28 PM »
I disagree on the use of supplements.
Supplement companies market to people's fear, and I really really really hate that.

I'm of the mind that supplements should only be necessary if you are not feeding bones and organs with the meats, and/or are not feeding a variety of sources.  In the four years that I have been feeding raw, I have never used supplements.

This company states that they are using the whole carcass. thumbsup1  They also say that any single product is not necessarily balanced by itself, and encourage people to feed a variety for balance. thumbsup1 thumbsup1  And even then, they do also offer their own line of supplements along with instructions for use, but I get the sense that they are just for "safety net" or "situational" purposes.
Thanks FMM  though becuase this product is ground and frozen then maybe supplements are needed?? Taurine for example?
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline FurMonster Mom

  • Charter Member
  • Gabster
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 713
  • Country: us
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2012, 04:39:21 PM »
Okay.... I'm sorry, but I can't help but chuckle a bit here...

Taurine is a small crystalline sulfonic acid molecule.... just what kind of knife would it take to cut that thing?
Grinding does not destroy taurine... unless you're using some kind of super NASA subatomic grinder. Bumpurr1

Neither does oxidation... if that were true, then the warehouses full of thousands of tons of synthetic taurine made for supplements would be completely useless.

Next... freezing does not destroy taurine.
Let me repeat that...
Freezing does not destroy taurine.
I found at least 3 scientific articles that describe how taurine is used as a cryopreservative in yeasts, human liver cells, and of all things, buffalo sperm.  cowHello
If taurine were destroyed by freezing, it could not be used as a freezing preservative.  It would be impossible.

Now, here's where the supplement companies have grabbed onto this idea that freezing "destroys" taurine.  
Freezing does not stop natural decay... it slows it down to a miniscule crawl... but does not stop it.  
Therefore, over a long period of time, nutrients will eventually decay... eventually... over a long period of time.... This happens with all nutrients, not just taurine.  
But holey jimminy, if you're leaving your food in the freezer for that long, you could have bigger problems.   :o

Taurine IS water soluble.  So, there is the possibility that a small amount of taurine may dissolve into the water that is pulled out by the freezing process (water molecules crystallizing then melting).  So my solution to that is to feed the "juices" (water)... no loss.   ;)

NOW, having said all that, if you feel that you want to add some taurine because you are primarily feeding meats that are naturally low in taurine (such as rabbit), then by all means, add some in.  I like to add heart meat (high in taurine) to my chicken meals. But this comes back to the idea of feeding a variety of meats for an overall balance.  Whatever nutrients might be missing in one meal can be compensated for in another meal when you feed a variety.   thumbsup1  
« Last Edit: August 12, 2012, 05:06:41 PM by FurMonster Mom »
meow meow meow meow meow meow? -woof!
Translation: "I can has my raw food? -please!"

Offline Shadow

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1406
  • Country: ca
  • Just say no to Kibble Krack
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2012, 06:00:07 PM »
Ok FMM I will let you  chuckle at me  ;)
Im still learning all this stuff, just want to do the right thing here. :)
This is good info for others to read too. Trying to get my brother to put his cat on this food too.
So onto my next question...what about constipation?
I was reading over at catinfo.org and she said that she had to take a bit of the bone out when making her batches, as her cat did get constipated when she used the whole chicken. Would something like *pysillium (spelling) be something I should add?
I plan on getting some sardines for the needed omega 3's
Again im going to buy 2 other proteins, just not sure which ones, probably will do quail and rabbit.
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline Middle Child

  • Moderator
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 9557
  • Country: us
  • Just say No to declawing
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2012, 07:27:44 PM »
Don't have anything to add, just soaking in all the info..... thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1

Offline Shadow

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1406
  • Country: ca
  • Just say no to Kibble Krack
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2012, 03:35:08 PM »
Just bought some Rabbit and Elk...will let you all know how this goes over with my furkids :)
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline FurMonster Mom

  • Charter Member
  • Gabster
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 713
  • Country: us
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2012, 03:45:57 PM »
Constipation.... sometimes it happens... sometimes.  If the supplier balances the food properly, it shouldn't happen very often.
You won't really know until it happens, because each food source (and each supplier) has a slightly different balance.  You could always contact the supplier and ask them if/how they adjust for the high bone content in a particular food source.

Then just keep an eye out, and if it seems that kitties consistently get constipated after eating a particular variety, you can make an adjustment.
I'd probably adjust by simply adding a small bit of organ meat to the meal... kidney, melt, or liver.  You could cut up small 1/4 ounce pieces (1lb = 64 pieces!) and freeze them on a cookie sheet (wax papered).  Then just bag 'em up to have on hand .  They will thaw pretty quickly.

« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 04:04:22 PM by FurMonster Mom »
meow meow meow meow meow meow? -woof!
Translation: "I can has my raw food? -please!"

Offline Pookie

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 5442
  • Country: us
  • Proud member of the Wet Food Club
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2012, 03:28:01 PM »
Just out of curiosity, if the company wasn't using whole ground prey, would it make sense to supplement since they're not getting the skin (maybe), fur/feathers, brains, eyeballs (sorry, don't mean to be gross  :-X), intestinal contents, etc.?

Just wondering.
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline Shadow

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1406
  • Country: ca
  • Just say no to Kibble Krack
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2012, 06:21:30 PM »
Just out of curiosity, if the company wasn't using whole ground prey, would it make sense to supplement since they're not getting the skin (maybe), fur/feathers, brains, eyeballs (sorry, don't mean to be gross  :-X), intestinal contents, etc.?

Just wondering.
m not sure, but they use everything but the fur/feathers, and hooves, cats would not eat these in the wild.
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline Pookie

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 5442
  • Country: us
  • Proud member of the Wet Food Club
Re: Just started on carnivora
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2012, 08:41:11 AM »
m not sure, but they use everything but the fur/feathers, and hooves, cats would not eat these in the wild.

Maybe not the hooves, but if it's small prey (mice, small birds) I'm pretttty sure they would eat the fur and feathers.  It's a great source of fiber!   funny2

Just to clarify my question, though, I was just wondering if supplementation was needed for raw that doesn't include the entire animal.  For example, grinding chicken thighs and bones (with organ) like Dr. Pierson's recipe, or even not grinding those things, I would "think" needs some sort of supplements because of what's not being included (e.g. the parts I mentioned in my earlier post).   :-\
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 08:44:39 AM by Pookie »
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Tags: