Author Topic: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?  (Read 4639 times)

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2018, 12:23:32 PM »
I'm wondering if it's what the beef cows are fed. Remember the skittles thing?  That is true, you know. Waste candy put in beef cattle feed. When I do return her to beef (after I determine IF it's the beef) I guess I am going to have to go organic for her, for beef. It's only 2 meals a week (and one for Queen Eva) so I suppose I could fit it in the budget.

A good possibility that it is. I was wondering about that. GMOs are a main staple in cattle feed if they're not organic. Plus, if there were any kind of infection in the herd, antibiotics were used.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2018, 12:26:47 PM »
Yes, everything not organic can be expected to be GMO fed.  But up until now Jennie has never had a problem with that, and I don't think she is having a problem with the poultry meals.

I updated the poop report, it must have posted the same time you did, usually I get a warning about that.


Jennie had a normal "raw fed" poop just now, with one exception.  Normal size and texture and consistency, just a shell with a bit of fur.  BUT. It still smells bad.  But what it smells like..I am beginning to realize (had this aha moment last night) is s.boulardii.  Mazy cat's poop smells the same way.  I started Jennie on a small amount of the s.boulardii when these Wed/Sat bad poops first started, before I noticed the pattern I mean.

I am stopping the s.boulardii for Jennie, keeping on with the ACV, and continuing with the elimination of beef, and will see what happens.

I am reluctant to stop the s.boulardii for Mazy cat, I feel she needs it.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2018, 10:03:03 PM »
I'm wondering if it's what the beef cows are fed.

 Doh1  Good point!  I didn't think of that!   :-[

I started her on the ACV yesterday.

Actually, I was thinking she might only need the ACV when fed the beef.  But if you want to give it to her with other meals, that works, too.   :)

My other thought was that maybe beef is higher in magnesium than poultry, so giving bone (calcium) with it might firm up her stools.  However . . . in my SUPER quick search, I didn't find anything that confirmed that, so . . . never mind.   :)

I'm glad this poop was more "normal" than the other ones had been!   thumbsup1  Really good observation about the s.boulardii smell.  And I agree, there's no need to stop it for Mazy if you feel she needs it.  Jennie, on the other hand, may not need it.  You'll find out soon enough.   :)
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2018, 09:54:46 AM »
Well I started Jennie on the s.boulardii when she started having the bad poops.  I hadn't yet caught on that there was a pattern.  She didn't take as much as Mazy cat, I only gave it to her with her supper meal, except for after a really bad poop, I'd give a whole one. But I do think I am on to why Mazy cat's poop has a funny smell, and Jennie's does sometimes.  Queen Eva's never does and she never has s.boulardii.

Regarding considering what the meat was fed, it's something I always think about.  After all that is why Mazy cat has to have organic non-GMO Project Verified meat and eggs.  She cannot tolerate anything that has been fed GMO feed.

I am finding an intolerance for GMO in myself too, not to mention the other things that are used to grow vegetables (chemical waste water and such)

I am convinced that part of the reason there is so much insanity type behaviors in the world today is the food supply. People already a little ..'off..' pushed over the edge by the food our governments allow as safe.......

When you eat celery that has been watered with chemical waste, for instance, I imagine it does strange things to some people.

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2018, 10:16:28 AM »
While I agree that a lot of food factors into the physical/mental problems of a lot of people (some proven by studies like the ones done on HD/ADD), I don't think it's the reason so many are pushed over the edge.


The way children are raised these days (and have been since somewhere around the late 80's) has a MUCH larger effect on kids.

1. Computers and computer games instead of being pushed out the door to go play outside--games that teach immorality especially.
2. Parents deciding that they deserved lives away from those kids--regularly.
3. TVs, gaming systems, computers, phones in children's rooms so that they have the ability to isolate more readily.
4. Parents on their own phones so much that their children can't get attention and feel unwanted.

I can keep on with the list, but it's a combination of more than just food that has made us start having to share the world with crazy people. The people have been grown this way.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2018, 09:59:18 AM »
No change in the occasional smelly soft poop pattern with the elimination of beef this past week.  So I looked at the pattern again, is it the turkey thigh?  The chicken thigh?  The breast of either?  No other pattern.

Perhaps I need to cut back on her fat a little.  I had added skin to her diet about a year or so ago, because of some constipation issues.  Maybe with the issue solved, she now needs less skin.  So that's the next step.

I'm going to keep her on the ACV though.  I had noticed, when the weather first turned cold in the fall that she was showing some signs of arthritis stiffness, for the first time. The addition of ACV daily has eliminated that, in fact I noticed a difference after the second day.

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2018, 08:12:11 PM »
I'm going to keep her on the ACV though.  I had noticed, when the weather first turned cold in the fall that she was showing some signs of arthritis stiffness, for the first time. The addition of ACV daily has eliminated that, in fact I noticed a difference after the second day.

That's great!   bananamiddlechild bananamiddlechild bananamiddlechild

Thanks for the update!
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2018, 08:50:44 AM »
I just happened to hop over to the Raw feeding for IBD group last night to browse a little and found a thread from someone dealing with a similar issue.  Well, actually an almost identical issue.  Cat was constipated, so fat was increased to combat the constipation, increased fat lead to smelly soft poops.

It was suggested that cat may be having trouble digesting the fat.  I had come to that conclusion with Jennie, but cutting back on the fat only led to her having trouble pooping.  Almost immediately after cutting back, in fact. Last night she had her poop stuck and had to drag her bottom along the floor to get it off.

The possible solutions for helping the cat digest her fat were to add taurine to the diet or lipase (a digestive enzyme)  Since Jennie is already getting plenty of lipase with every meal (she is on EZcomplete 6 out of 7 days a week) I opted for the taurine addition.

 I have Alnutrin taurine.  The group admin helped me work out the dose and I will now be adding 250 mg of taurine a day, split between her three meals that contain higher fat.

Stay tuned!   catmilk1

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2018, 10:24:50 AM »
I forgot to include the reasoning behind the taurine.

According to the admin (who does research as a living, above and beyond what she does for the group she co-founded) "Cats use taurine to conjugate bile acids, and as there's clearly some impairment in the GI tract, the extra taurine might help with fat digestion. "

The study is here

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5508316/

Now, Jennie has never shown any signs of IBD. Her only digetive issue, EVER, has been constipation, until this recent problem with soft, large smelly stool.. But as I know, that can be an indication of IBD.

When I rescued her she was approximately 2 years old (give or take a few months, vet's best guess) living off the land and on the dry food my friends were putting out.  What she ate before I don't know, but considering she wasn't spayed and had been abandoned right around the time college kids leave for the summer, I am guessing junk kibble.

So even though she went right onto canned with me, and five years later, raw, the potential for damage is already there. As we know, poor diet does a lot of damage, even if it takes years for that damage to show. I mean, even though she has been on a best diet for the past almost 6 years, and a canned for 5 years before that, the damage done in her first two years is now showing up.

Offline Lola

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2018, 05:56:08 PM »
Quote
The group admin helped me work out the dose and I will now be adding 250 mg of taurine a day, split between her three meals that contain higher fat.

Did you figure out the dose to avoid too much?  I ask because I had thought I had read that it is almost impossible to give a cat too much taurine.  I found this:
Quote
Both grinding and freezing reduce available taurine, but by how much is not clear. That is why I add supplemental taurine when making homemade or supplementing pre-ground meat/bone/organ mixes. Taurine is not toxic in cats and is water-soluble, so any extra the cat can't use just gets flushed out in their urine.⁴ I would rather add some extra taurine to the food and have a cat with expensive pee than risk a taurine deficiency which could lead to serious heart problems or death.

https://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/how-much-taurine-should-i-add
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2018, 06:29:43 PM »
Thanks for adding that important information to the discussion, Lola.  Yes I know unused taurine just gets peed out so cats aren't at risk for toxic levels.  "you can't give too much taurine" in other words.

But I needed some kind of guidance, after all. No point in pouring a ton in and wasting it, you know? Laurie, in her research for someone else a while back, discovered that an additional 250 mg a day can benefit a cat who is not absorbing enough taurine during digestion to help process the fat.

Anyway, she also said, if it's going to help, I'll know in a few days.

Offline Lola

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2018, 06:36:26 PM »
AFTER I posted, I figured out you probably were just looking for an amount.  A non-wasteful amount. 

Anyway, hope it does the trick!!! 
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2018, 06:48:11 PM »
It's good information for anyone reading, Lola, so thank you for posting it, and the link. They get taurine on prey-model days (Sundays) so I always have it in the house, anyway.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2018, 09:39:58 PM »
I just happened to hop over to the Raw feeding for IBD group last night to browse a little and found a thread from someone dealing with a similar issue.  Well, actually an almost identical issue.  Cat was constipated, so fat was increased to combat the constipation, increased fat lead to smelly soft poops.

It was suggested that cat may be having trouble digesting the fat.  I had come to that conclusion with Jennie, but cutting back on the fat only led to her having trouble pooping.  Almost immediately after cutting back, in fact. Last night she had her poop stuck and had to drag her bottom along the floor to get it off.

The possible solutions for helping the cat digest her fat were to add taurine to the diet or lipase (a digestive enzyme)  Since Jennie is already getting plenty of lipase with every meal (she is on EZcomplete 6 out of 7 days a week) I opted for the taurine addition.

 I have Alnutrin taurine.  The group admin helped me work out the dose and I will now be adding 250 mg of taurine a day, split between her three meals that contain higher fat.

Stay tuned!   catmilk1

That's really interesting!  Ya learn something new every day . . . Thanks for sharing.  I really hope it does the trick.   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2018, 09:45:30 AM »
After having a normal amount of fat added yesterday, Jennie had a normal "raw" poop this morning, no smell.  Too soon to tell for sure if it's working?  Maybe.  Just keeping things chronological.

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