Pookie's Vet Visit

[DeeDee]

Ear infections are AWFUL.  The pain is terrible!  I hope you feel better soon!

There's this magic stuff that my Dr gives me when I get ear infections. It's an analgesic along with a decongestant. I just can't use it at the same time as the antibiotic ear drops if it's bad enough to need those too -- http://www.rxlist.com/auralgan-drug.htm

[Pookie]

Thanks, everyone.  What's weird is it didn't hurt.  My ear just suddenly closed up, like it had to pop, and never opened up.  Plus I was feeling like my vertigo was coming back but without the room spinning.  It scared the xxxx out of me.

[Lola]

Is it better now?  Is it vertigo related?

[Pookie]

No, not vertigo related.  The ear infection was causing the wooziness.  It's better now, thanks.

I gave Pookie the amoxicillin (compounded chicken flavor) this morning with his 2nd breakfast.  I had class again today, so I was gone for most of the day.  When I got home, he'd thrown up several times.    I gave him 1/4 pepcid and called the vet.  She advised to wait an hour to feed him and try the amoxicillin again, but doesn't understand why he's having a hard time tolerating the antibiotics.  I just gave him his 2nd dinner, and I think I'll give him the antibiotic with his 3rd dinner.  I pray the pepcid helps him tolerate it. 

What do I do?  Give him pepcid for the entire time he's on antibiotics?  Try a 3rd one?  I feel terrible that he had to go through this again, and that I let his mouth go so long that he even needs the antibiotics.  Why can't he seem to tolerate the meds?  I feel like I did when I couldn't figure out why he and his sister kept throwing up -- helpless, confused.  Why can't it ever be easy? 

[DeeDee]

What do I do?  Give him pepcid for the entire time he's on antibiotics?  Try a 3rd one?  I feel terrible that he had to go through this again, and that I let his mouth go so long that he even needs the antibiotics.  Why can't he seem to tolerate the meds? 

You might have to give the pepcid the whole time if it helps him and he really needs the antibiotics.

You know, when I get to the point that I'm getting sterile gut, I can't tell you how bad it burns. If he had diarrhea too, I'd be more sure, but I'm not. But if you manage to get him through all this, I'd definitely give him a LOT of pre and probiotics after it's over for quite a while.

[Pookie]

I've often been told I'm a "drama queen," and if I'm doing that here, I apologize in advance.  But I don't know who else to talk to about this.

Last night didn't go well.  He ate almost all of his food, but when I went to give him the meds he started swallowing and foaming at the mouth BEFORE I even got the syringe anywhere near him.  Twice he got away before I could give him anything, the third time I only got a little in him before he ripped me up leaping away from me (nails, not teeth).  He must have spit up on my bed, and was hiding under my bed when I went upstairs to get ready for bed.  His usual "safe place" is under the sofa.   

This morning, I got up early to see if he'd kept his food down.  He had, so I gave him 1/4 pepcid again in the hope that I'd be able to give him the meds later.  He ate his 1st breakfast after I had to put several toppers on it, and had eaten maybe 1/2 of his 2nd breakfast by the time I left for work (usually he's had all 3 meals by then).  He had greeted me when I first came down, but after he'd eat, he'd go under the daybed to his beddie.  So I never gave him the antibiotic.  I did put the remaining 1/4 can in the timer feeder to open in the early afternoon.  I'm praying his appetite improves, but won't be giving him a pepcid tonight.

I don't know what to do.  Do I just give up and wait for an abcess?  Do I try another antibiotic?  I was willing to give him the pepcid if it would help him tolerate the antibiotic, but I have a hunch that the pepcid was at least part of the reason why he didn't want to eat.  If that's the case, then I can't give it to him -- he needs to eat.

I have a hunch the vet won't do the dental surgery unless he's been on the antibiotics for a couple of days, and to her point, he'd need to be on them afterwards as well.  I can't have anyone come over to help me medicate him, because he hides as soon as he hears anyone on the front steps.

I actually toyed with letting them give him the Convenia, but he's already shown he couldn't tolerate 2 different antibiotics.  If he can't tolerate the Convenia, it's in him for 65 days -- then what?

There's a holistic vet about an hour away, but she doesn't do dentals.  I'd have to take him there for a check-up, then she'd refer me to another place that does the dentals.  If they say he needs antibiotics, then we're right back to where we started, and more time has passed.

I'm at a loss, and I'm so upset.  This is my fault for not getting him checked every year, and he's paying for it.   

Thanks in advance for letting me spill.

[DeeDee]

With the problems he's having, I can't imagine giving him something that lasts 65 days. I just can't see it at all. Have you tried mixing the stuff in one of his later meals?

[Pookie]

With the problems he's having, I can't imagine giving him something that lasts 65 days. I just can't see it at all. Have you tried mixing the stuff in one of his later meals?

No.  But if he can't tolerate the antibiotic, putting it in his food won't help.  And he's not going to let me near him to medicate, which is why the vet's office is pushing the Convenia.  I have to admit, I was starting to give in, then went back to Dr. Pierson's site and looked at the side effects.  I just can't do it.  I just can't.

They're telling me they've used it before without any problems, that it doesn't cause the stomach upset like the oral meds, and some cats just can't tolerate oral medications.  They're also telling me that everything has a risk, just like we risk getting hit by a car when we go outside.  I replied by saying, "But we can minimize the risks by looking both ways."

I KNOW there are risks, for heaven's sake!  But there has to be another option!  I wish I knew what to do . . . 

[DeeDee]

No.  But if he can't tolerate the antibiotic, putting it in his food won't help.  =

But his stomach might not be tolerating it without food being right there, right then. I know I can't take several antibiotics like Augmentin without having food with them. I think mixing it with food might be worth a shot just to see. You could maybe mix one dose with several meals  so he'd be less likely to detect it, and maybe then he could keep it down.

[Pookie]

I gave him the antibiotic immediately after his 3rd meal.  Unfortunately, I had to leave less than 1 hour later, so I don't know how long he was able to keep it down.  The hairball didn't help, either, but those don't usually trigger the kind of vomiting he did.  There was some with pink bile, some of clear foam.

I was willing to give him the pepcid to help him tolerate the antibiotics, just so he could have the surgery.  But the other issue is him not letting me near him, now.  I was lucky I was able to give him the pepcid this morning, and it took some enticing.  But I also don't know if the 2nd pepcid was why his appetite was off, if it was the little antibiotic I got in him last night, or him being upset with me.   

Am I going to have to "suck it up" and get him the rabies shot, just so I can have this done elsewhere?  I was actually considering it once the dental was over.  Thing is, if I do it now, I'd want to wait a month before the dental, plus that place would probably want to do a check-up first.  I'm . . . at a loss.

[Pookie]

I'm seriously considering cancelling his dental on Wednesday.  I hate to, but if the only option is the Convenia . . . maybe I need a 2nd opinion?

This . . . this is (one of the reasons) why I've avoided vets for the last few years.  I start doubting myself, because I'm worried for him and because I've made so many mistakes with him and his sister already.  I emailed the link to Dr. Pierson's site on Convenia, and the link Dr. P includes to another vet, who wrote that anti-biotics are overused in dentals, to my vet.  I don't know if she'll read it, or take it seriously if she does.  But what are the odds of finding vets like Dr. Pierson or that other one (against antibiotics)?  What if every vet I go to says he needs antibiotics, when he can't tolerate the oral ones?  Give him the Convenia and hope for the best?   

Oh, and the person at the vet's office was making it a trust issue . . . "trust your veterinary staff."  I don't think I'll ever completely trust a vet's office, but this one seems ok.  The issue is that I don't trust the Convenia!  For Dr. Pierson to go to the trouble to mention that on her site, among all the drugs out there, is significant to me.

[DeeDee]

The issue is that I don't trust the Convenia!  For Dr. Pierson to go to the trouble to mention that on her site, among all the drugs out there, is significant to me.

Though I don't have a dog in this fight, my worry for it with Pookie is the fact that, for some unknown reason, he's not tolerating other antibiotics. In my mind, that makes him more susceptible to having a reaction to the Convenia. I've read about some really bad problems with Convenia more than one place. Maybe I'm wrong and it's completely a stomach issue, but that's the way I see it. My fears always make me want to err on the side of caution. I just don't know anything to tell you to do.

The problem with it being given before or after food is that it's not "cushioned" or surrounded by food to help it from hitting the stomach walls so directly in any area of the stomach. If all they'd had for Vlad's paw infection was liquid, I'd have mixed it up in his food.

[Pookie]

Thanks, Dee.  If I remember correctly (and that's iffy at this point), I think they had said not to put it in his food, as there was no guarantee he'd get the full dose that way.     That may have been for the Clavamox, I'm not sure.

Side note:  supposedly Convenia doesn't bother the stomach like the other antibiotics, since it's an injectable.

The vet called and her reasons for recommending it were similar to what Dr. Pierson mentions on her site -- it's preventative, less stress for everyone involved, and since his mouth will be hurting, he won't have to have something put in it.  In her experience, it's been well-tolerated in cats.  I just can't bring myself to do it.  If something happened . . . I don't know if I could ever forgive myself.  I ended up canceling the appointment.

I asked her about colloidal silver (I took a chance) and she's not familiar with it and suggested I talk to a holistic vet about that.  She would be willing to work with that person on this situation, which was good to hear.

My main priority is to get him back on track with his meals.  I'm on vacation starting Friday and all of next week.  Maybe after I get some sleep tonight, I'll be thinking more clearly tomorrow and have a better idea of what to do. I've been crying a lot since last night and most of today, so I'm probably not in a good place mentally.

[Middle Child]

Why won't your vet consider clindamyacin?  MANY cats cannot tolerate amoxicillin or clavamox.  Tolly couldn't, it made him extremely ill.  He had no trouble with clindamycin.  There is also Baytril.

I'm pretty sure a cat who can't tolerate the amoxi or clamox should never have the convenia.

[Pookie]

Why won't your vet consider clindamyacin?

She said it's strong.  I guess she thought if he couldn't tolerate the others, he wouldn't be able to handle clindamyacin.  Wish I'd have known that many cats can't tolerate the other stuff.   

Interestingly, when I spoke to her today she said we could do the dental without antibiotics.  She got a little technical about cutting into the jaw, etc. to remove the rest of the broken teeth, but my impression is that the antibiotics are preventative -- to prevent infection after the surgery.  If I remember the conversation correctly.

I debated going that route (no antibiotics), but if in fact there IS an infection, then I don't know if that's a good idea.  That's why I'm wondering if I should add the colloidal silver.  But I won't do that until he's back on his feeding schedule and tolerating food (and me) again.

What I'm thinking I'll do is see the holistic vet (I'm still on the waiting list for 1, but there's another that's just over 1 hour away) and see what she has to say.  If she has some options and is willing to work with the regular vet, or says there's no infection, then I would hopefully have a better idea of how to proceed.  (Interestingly, the holistic vet refers people out to a feline-only place in another town a little closer to me [but not much] for dentals, etc.  When I looked at the website, lo and behold they had links to catinfo.org and Dr. Hodgkins' felinediabetes site.     Downside:  the picture of the waiting room showed shelves of bagged food.     *sigh*)

I hate to put him through a long car trip and another vet visit, but it beats 65 days of Convenia in his system.