Author Topic: Some pre-surgery questions  (Read 5367 times)

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Offline Pookie

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2014, 07:37:16 PM »
I have to go to bed now, but I will be thinking of you and precious Pookie tomorrow.  Please remember to eat and drink, especially drink. It is so important to stay hydrated.  You will feel better, cope better, think better, if you drink (water, juice, etc, is what I mean  ;D).

In case you missed it I did post a pic of the syringe buprenex comes in, up above your reply to Dee.

See, lots of ideas here, it will be okay.  Much love to you both

Thanks, MC!  CatPurr  HeadButt HeadButt
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2014, 07:54:33 PM »
Quote
They always tell you to wait until the next day to feed (because of the possibly of vomiting) but I never do.  Just feed tiny meals, spaced an hour or so apart.

How long should I wait to give him some food after he gets home?  I'll ask the vet, too, but also wanted to get your experience.

THANK YOU!
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Offline Shadow

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2014, 12:52:44 AM »
Thinking of you, and sending positive thoughts your way for tommorow.  grouphug  GoodVibes
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2014, 04:39:35 AM »
Thinking of you both this morning!

As for feeding..when you get him home, see how he is. A lot of cats seem to need to walk off the anesthesia, at least mine all have.  I'd wait an hour or so letting him settle a bit, then offer a very small amount, just so he has something in his stomach.  About a teaspoon of some canned or Rad Cat.Then an hour later a little more, and so on.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2014, 12:40:09 PM »
Just home for lunch, still thinking of you both!   GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes

Offline Pookie

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2014, 12:59:44 PM »
Thanks, MC.   :-* :-*

Vet's office called.  Apparently his mouth was in rough shape  :( and they had to do 6 extractions.  His canines are gone, so are some upper molars, and she said in some cases the roots of his teeth were just gone.  His jaw bone was soft, too.   :(  He'll be on antibiotics for 7 days, thankfully I only have to give it once a day.  He'll have to go back in 7 days for them to see how his gums are healing.

She said it's likely that he'll eventually lose all of his teeth.   :(  I am really, really hoping to find information in that book I ordered, that will help stop the demineralization and maybe even reverse it a little so that he can keep the teeth he has.  But one thing at a time . . . I'm to call in a few hours to see if I can bring him home.

They gave injectible Baytril, but she's going to give me zeniquin to give him orally, which is a smaller tablet.  It's in the same class of antibiotics as Baytril, but her concern was the possible retinal damage the Baytril can cause.  I just took a quick look at Zeniquin and it can have the same effect, so I don't know what difference it makes.  But I just don't think I can fight anymore.

It's supposed to be stormy here tonight, which makes him nervous.  I'm just hoping to get some food in him and that he keeps it down.  That's my biggest concern at this point -- his tummy.  Esp. since he had a hairball literally minutes before I had to put him in the carrier to take him to the vet.   :(

Oh my poor kitty.  :'(
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 01:06:48 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Shadow

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2014, 01:47:39 PM »
Awww I am sure that he is going to be so happy and relieved after having all his toothies out. Try not to stress, he will be fine  HeadButt FlowersGif
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2014, 03:34:32 PM »
Thank you so much for the update!

Oh Pookie he is going to feel SOOOO much better with those bad teeth gone, I bet his recovery will be very swift.

That's good the zenquin is smaller and only once a day.  What about the pain meds?  Did you ask for torbogesic tablets, or are going to give the buprenex syringes a try.  Remember, just have to get it in the moth, it will be absorbed by the gums or tongue or whatever it lands on.

Does he have resorptive lesions?  I've forgotten.  Tolly Angel had FORL, he never had that many out all at once, but he had to have extractions almost every year by the time he was 6 or 7 years old until he left us.

It's actually a GOOD thing that he brought that fur up right before going in.  Now you don't have to worry about THAT!

Please keep us posted when you can.   Love to you both.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2014, 04:08:37 PM »
I called at 4p, they said he's still out-of-it and his third eye(lid?) was still visible, so they told me to wait until 6pm.  I had really hoped to get him home sooner, so I could keep an eye on him and start to get some food in him (in very small amounts) to see how he'd do in case I needed to bring him back for some reason.  They close at 8pm.

We're going with the buprenex.  Hopefully I'll be able to give it to him without a struggle.  fingerscrossed

Yes, he had resorptive lesions.   :(

I'm doing some very quick Google searches about healing tooth decay (in humans).  I realize it's too late for the teeth that are gone, but perhaps there's a way to slow down the others from decaying.  One of the things I've read is bone broth is a great way to get the minerals needed, and in the right ratios.  When things calm down (please, let it be soon), I see a trip to the butcher for some grass-fed bones and bone marrow in my future.  It certainly couldn't hurt to give him some bone broth, could it?  Other things I've read (but not sure I want to give a cat):  ghee or grass-fed butter or cheese, cod liver oil (that might be ok for a cat, but not sure), and (you'll love this) cutting out the grains (which is already the case for Pookie and most of the furkids here).

Hypothetical thoughts:  all this time we've been thinking that the reason cats have dental issues is mostly genetic.  But what if it's because their diet is nutrient-deficient?  Do cats fed raw meaty bones have dental issues?  I've never heard of it, but maybe that's just me.  And if they don't (or it's rare) . . . then it makes sense because they're getting the minerals out of the bones/marrow (as well as a good teeth cleaning) to build strong bones and teeth.

Thank you, all of you, for the continued love and support.  I don't know what I'd do without you all.   :-* :-* :-* :-* HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2014, 04:35:38 PM »
Cod liver oil is too high in vitamin A, I wouldn't use it. 

Well raw meaty bones have their own benefit, it's the only food that can be said to "clean" the teeth.

Do let us know when he's home.  Remember, tiny TINY servings, spaced an hour apart.  Just a teaspoon or less at a time.  Warm it a bit.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2014, 07:58:53 PM »
Just checking in for one last peek before bed.  Hope all is well! xx

Offline Lola

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2014, 10:01:21 PM »
Looking for an update.  Hope Pookie is home and all is well....
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2014, 04:36:43 AM »
Good morning!  Hope you are sound asleep! Please do let us know how things are, when you can.  I know you must be worn out.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2014, 10:11:50 AM »
He's home!  I got him home a little after 6:30p last night, waited an hour, then gave him a teeny bit of food spaced an hour apart (thanks, MC!)  As Lola had mentioned, he was wobbly when he got home, and his 3rd eyelids were still visible.  He was also very restless, wandering around the downstairs (it's an open layout) and he kept slapping his tail on the floor when he would lie down like he was cranky (not that I blame him).  I felt so bad for him!  You were right, MC, I should have asked for the sevoflurane gas.   :(  Lesson learned.

As wobbly as he was, he made it down to the basement (I forgot to close the door) to go hunting.  I went down when I realized he was there, and talked him into going back upstairs.  I followed him up.  He did ok, though he had to stop a couple of times.  Once he was up, I closed the door, and between feedings, he took turns hovering by the door or by the opposite corner of the kitchen.  He must have been hearing mice in the walls.  But I was glad, as it kept him distracted.

I was able to get almost 1/2 of 5.5 oz can Instinct rabbit (his favorite) in him before calling it a night at around 1am.  I had put a little more in the timer feeder to open an hour later, but forgot to turn it on.   :-[

This morning he was at my door when I got up, and the 3rd eyelids were down.  I was able, sort of, to give him the buprenex, and have been giving him small portions of food every 40 minutes.  He got his antibiotic in the pill pocket, and I continued with the small meals just to make sure he can tolerate the antibiotic.  I plan to give him another small meal in a few hours with the probiotic, and have been adding in some other supplements to the other meals (e.g. the egg yolk lecithin, a couple drops of the Omega 3 to help with inflammation, etc.).  As of 11:30 this morning, he's had the remaining 1/2 can.

As I was driving to the vet's to get him, I kept thinking about the bone broth and dairy, and suddenly realized  Doh1, raw milk would be an option.  I remembered the Pottenger study, where the cats fed raw meat and raw milk were healthy.  So in addition to the bone broth, I'm thinking raw goat's milk (it's easier to digest than cow milk) might help.  And as luck would have it, the specialty store where I get his food also carries raw goat's milk.  One is by Primal, the other is Vital Essentials.  I'll look into those in a little while.  If they added stuff (or stuff I don't like), I can go to PA to get it -- it's legal there for human consumption, so that's an option.

Edit:  I just looked at the raw goat's milk.  It looks like Vital Essentials didn't add anything, while Primal did:

Quote
  Ingredients: Raw Goat Milk, Dried Lactobacillus lactis fermentation product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, Dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product, Inulin, Organic Turmeric (color), Organic Ginger, Organic Cinnamon.

Some of those ingredients are probiotics, which would be fine, but I'm not comfortable giving something with turmeric, ginger or cinnamon.  I'm not sure how safe those ingredients are for cats and would prefer to "keep it simple."
« Last Edit: October 16, 2014, 10:30:06 AM by Pookie »
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2014, 11:17:15 AM »

Edit:  I just looked at the raw goat's milk.  It looks like Vital Essentials didn't add anything, while Primal did:

Some of those ingredients are probiotics, which would be fine, but I'm not comfortable giving something with turmeric, ginger or cinnamon.  I'm not sure how safe those ingredients are for cats and would prefer to "keep it simple."

Turmeric should be given to cats at about 100 mg 2x a day. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/11/12/turmeric.aspx

Cinnamon is non-toxic to dogs, cats and horses: http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/animal-poison-control/toxic-and-non-toxic-plants/cinnamon

Ginger is also considered safe and is used for a digestive aid in pets as well as humans: http://www.rawtothebones.com/health-benefits-ginger-root-dogs-cats/

All 3 of those are anti-inflammatory supplements with many benefits.

Ginger and Turmeric always go into V&B's cookies, and a lot of the time cinnamon does too specifically for the anti-inflammatory properties.

What would worry me in that ingredients list is the Inulin. Though it's a prebiotic, I don't see where it says, "Inulin from chicory," or anything remotely like that. What did they extract the Inulin from? There's a chance for gastrointestinal upset from Inulin:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/07/08/us-popular-food-additive-can-cause-stoma-idUSTRE6675QC20100708

Quote
The label may list inulin, chicory root extract, oligosaccharide, or oligofructose.

So I'd definitely stick with Vital Essentials brand.

I'm so glad Pookie's home and seems to be doing well! I'm sure you're beginning to feel a million times better as well.
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