Not Food, Not Medicine, So What IS This Junk?

[CarnivorousCritter]

http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-feline-yd-dry.html  From Hills Pet "nutrition", a new "prescription" food that supposedly...  

Key Benefits

Easy. Effective. Safe.
Clinically proven nutrition to restore thyroid health
Improves thyroid health in 3 weeks* (when fed as the sole source of nutrition)
Complete daily nutrition with a taste your cat will love

OK so the first thing I thought was "DUH! Just eliminate the junk in the regular foods jacked up with all the Sodium which is why all these animals have hyperthyroidism in the first place   !"

Easy enough! See ingredient examples below, one sans iodized salt.  
Uuulp. Wait just a minute ... that was tooooo easy!


http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hyperthyroidism/DS00344/DSECTION=causes

Your thyroid produces two main hormones, thyroxine (T-4) and triiodothyronine (T-3), that influence every cell in your body. They maintain the rate at which your body uses fats and carbohydrates, help control your body temperature, influence your heart rate and help regulate the production of protein. Your thyroid also produces calcitonin, a hormone that helps regulate the amount of calcium in your blood.

How it all works
The rate at which T-4 and T-3 are released is controlled by your pituitary gland and your hypothalamus — an area at the base of your brain that acts as a thermostat for your whole system. Here's how the process works:

The hypothalamus signals your pituitary gland to make a hormone called thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH). Your pituitary gland then releases TSH — the amount depends on how much T-4 and T-3 are in your blood. If you don't have enough T-4 and T-3 in your blood, your TSH will rise; if you have too much, your TSH level will fall. ...

I'm just a random person on the Internet, not a scholar or scientist, not even a K'garten teacher so help me out here, please...

Strict carnivore +
Thyyroid maintains body use carbohydrates +
regulated protein +
strict carnivore (repeating)

People wonder why hyperthyroidism has risen on the "Top 10" Med issues list to begin with.

Y'all know the drill ---

Here are ingredients in an other "prescription" food, w/d:
Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken, Chicken Liver Flavor, Soybean Oil, Calcium Sulfate, Lactic Acid, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Vitamin E Supplement, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Iodized Salt, Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.


Now here's the :thyroid" stuff, y/d:

Corn Gluten Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Whole Grain Corn, Soybean Mill Run, Dried Egg Product, L-Lysine, Chicken Liver Flavor, Potassium Citrate, Lactic Acid, Dicalcium Phosphate, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Fish Oil, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Calcium Sulfate, DL-Methionine, Taurine, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Tryptophan, Natural Flavor, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Sulfate), L-Carnitine, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract.

Along with the Iodized salt, notice something else missing?  There's not even one SLIVER!   Go ahead, read those ingredients over three times (like I did.) Still don't see a trace.



How in blue hell can this be legal?!

Lola, didn't know where to put this ... Medical for thyroid ... or concerning issues???

[Shadow]

http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/a-veterinarian-expert-answers-some-questions-on-science-diet-yd.html Read the blog too that this Vet has in this article.

Once again our pets are being used as guinea pigs.

[Gump and Co]

Good info.

Shadow, that was also a really good article from your link to the truth about pet food site.

Like the vet in the article said:
"Unfortunately for the practicing veterinarian, pet food diets are not FDA-regulated, so the company has not done the Phase II or III drug trials normally required to determine a drug's efficacy or safety. It would have nice if more research had been done to answer these questions before its release onto the market.

Based on the information we have thus far, however, this diet certainly does provide us with another option for medical management of this very common disease. But with y/d and other prescription diets, shouldn't we be also be looking at the long-term heath benefits and disadvantages for the whole cat?"

And then Dr. Jean Hofve commented in the comments section:

"When Hill's says "80%" or "90%" of cats, they are referring to their initial studies, in which 9 and 14 cats participated. Most of them were on the diet for 1 year; a couple for 2 years, and just one for 5 years. [Subsequently one Hill's rep has claimed that 150 cats were involved, but that is not what Hill's said when I personally spoke with their veterinarian last month!] Nobody knows what the effects of this diet will be in real life, over long periods of time. The consensus in the veterinary community is that Hill's wants *our* feline patients to be the real-world "clinical trial" which they clearly have not done themselves. Iodine is used not only by the thyroid but many other tissues, and, in humans, iodine *deficiency* is a risk factor for stomach and breast cancer as well as thyroid disease. Please understand that (for the foreseeable future) feeding this diet will make your cat a cost- and risk-free experimental subject for Hill's."



Pets are used as guinea pigs and money-makers.  

[Middle Child]

Yes, the Hills Prescription foods get worse and worse. Disgusting.  But it irks me no end when people call the prescription food Science Diet  even in the TAPF article they are calling it Science Diet.

The Hills prescription foods are NOT Science Diet!  They may not be any better than the grocery store foods, as far as the quality of ingredients, but in my opinion it is important to call foods by the correct titles to avoid confusion.  Some of these crappy prescription foods actually do what they are supposed to do, and confusing them with the grocery store brand could cause someone less knowledgeable to try that for their cat instead, and end up with a very ill animal.

I hate these Prescription foods full of crap.  I hate giving this company my money. I have a cat on the c/d kibble.  She won't eat the c/d canned.  I hate that she has to eat this food.  But it is the only food that keeps her from having struvite in the urinary tract flare ups. I don't know what it is in this horrible food that controls the disease, but it works.  Some of you know I have tried, repeatedly, to get her back on a good canned diet.  But the crystals always come back.

But I would not feed a hyperthyroid cat that y/d crap. I notice they mention on their site that the food is good for urinary tract health too.  I guess that's so that when the cat eating the disgusting c/d develops hyperthyroid the vet and the consumer figure oh well we can just switch.

It depresses me endlessly, to feed my cat this disgusting food. But for whatever reason, it works for her.

[CarnivorousCritter]

Like the vet in the article said:

Based on the information we have thus far, however, this diet certainly does provide us with another option for medical management of this very common disease. But with y/d and other prescription diets, shouldn't we be also be looking at the long-term heath benefits and disadvantages for the whole cat?"

Nice to see ya, Gump  

Great quote by the Vet. My interpretation of the first sentence however is " ,  we are handcuffed;  we know who said information is provided by; Can NOT speak ill of those who fund everything.  

...I hate these Prescription foods full of crap.  I hate giving this company my money.... .... I hate that she has to eat this food.  But it is the only food that keeps her from having struvite in the urinary tract flare ups. I don't know what it is in this horrible food that controls the disease, but it works.

MC:  I had mentioned the salt in a previous discussion  (making the cat drink more water blah blah) but am posting these again, with a little more info this time (the things preceding the IODIZED salt); maybe you'll be inclined to read further into them:

Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Fish Oil, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Iodized Salt, Potassium Citrate, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, Phosphoric Acid, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract

. http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-feline-cd-multicare-feline-bladder-health-dry.html

The chemical compound potassium chloride (KCl) is a metal halide salt composed of potassium and chlorine...

Potassium chloride was once used as a fire extinguishing agent, used in portable and wheeled fire extinguishers. Known as Super-K dry chemical, it was more effective than sodium bicarbonate-based dry chemicals and was compatible with protein foam. This agent fell out of favor with the introduction of potassium bicarbonate (Purple-K) dry chemical in the late 1960s, which was much less corrosive and more effective. It is rated for B and C fires.

The majority of the potassium chloride produced is used for making fertilizer, since the growth of many plants is limited by their potassium intake. As a chemical feedstock, it is used for the manufacture of potassium hydroxide and potassium metal. It is also used in medicine, lethal injections, scientific applications, food processing, and as a sodium-free substitute for table salt (sodium chloride).

Choline chloride is an organic compound and a quaternary ammonium salt. It has a choline cation with chloride anion. Alternative names are hepacholine, biocolina and lipotril.

Quaternary ammonium salts are used as disinfectants, surfactants, fabric softeners, and as antistatic agents (e.g. in shampoos). In liquid fabric softeners, the chloride salts are often used. In dryer anticling strips, the sulfate salts are often used. Spermicidal jellies also contain quaternary ammonium salts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternary_ammonium_salt

I'm no scientist and have no idea what influence these things would have on deterring crystal formation, but wouldn't it make sense that the cat would, at least, be forced to consume muuuch more water? I know you love your Vet, but it's honestly not worth all your worry and the risk, when there are Holistic veterinarians who can advise how to keep your whole cat healthy and give you peace of mind!

IMO it's like a home builder selling somebody that old drywall from China for their new mansion, with some Asbestos thrown in.  Sorry I am so passionate about this.  Especially cringing is the word "prescription"  on it.

[Lola]

http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-feline-yd-dry.html  From Hills Pet "nutrition", a new "prescription" food that supposedly...  

I look at things more simply.  Hills can claim anything they want to.  They legally can and do. Joe Average has to do a lot of research into the ingredients list to decipher the truth of their BS labeling.   
For me, it is easy.  Bottom line, it is a DRY "food."  A non-species appropriate food. 
Who wants to "trade" one problem for another by feeding a dry "food?"  Not me.

While I'm ranting...Purina makes my skin crawl also, but at least the Average Joe isn't getting the added false impression that is is THE food, because it is available via prescription only. 

[Middle Child]

The c/d does not make her drink more water.  She is a very poor drinker, and yet, her urine is not highly concentrated and her blood work is normal. I do love my vet but she isn't a nutritionist. She knows I hate that my cat is eating this food. But the results remain the same.  When I put her on a "high quality" canned diet, her pH goes up and the crystals return. Something in her body responds well to a food full of chemicals. <sigh> There are no holistic veterinarians in my neck of the woods. At least the other three are able to thrive on good quality canned diets. I don't know that I would call any pet foods "high" quality any more. They all try to sound like they are so great, but they all contain crappy things.

Someone somewhere in some forum was extolling the wonders of Wysong the other day.  I know I've looked into them before, so I did again.  Wysong foods are full of junk just like all the rest. http://www.wysong.net/index.php

Look what's in their "nurture"  dry line

ngredients: Chicken, Chicken Giblets, Poultry Fat, Corn Gluten Meal, Ground Brown Rice, Ground Wheat, Ground Corn, Ground Oat Groats, Wheat Gluten, Whole Egg, DL-Methionine, Salt, Taurine, Lecithin, Citric Acid, Coconut Natura Extractives of Sage & Rosemary, Dried Kelp, Garlic, Black Pepper, Artichoke, Dried Bacillus subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Yeast Culture, Dried Aspergillus niger Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus oryzae Fermentation Product, Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.

Ground corn and wheat?  Wheat gluten. corn gluten meal. GARLIC, BLACK PEPPER.

Vitlaity canned:

Ingredients: Chicken, Chicken Liver, Water Sufficient for Processing, Ground Extruded Whole Soybeans, Carrots, Ground Corn, Ground Brown Rice, Whole Egg, Bone Meal, Dicalcium Phosphate, Taurine, DL-Methionine, Yeast Culture, Ground Flax Seeds, Dried Kelp, Dried Wheat Grass Powder. Dried Barley Grass Powder, Natural Extractives of Sage, Natural Extractives of Rosemary, Garlic, Black Pepper, Artichoke, Ascorbic Acid, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin Supplement, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement.

Sorry I've gone off topic.  I'm just frustrated to the breaking point over the pet food issue these days.   I wish I could just feed what I feed and be happy with it and stop constantly searching for something better.

[Gump and Co]

Hi Middle Child, when you put your cat back on non-prescription canned food does she develop a blockage? Dr. Lisa Pierson talks about how a small amount of crystals is not an abnormal finding. There's info and a quote about that at catinfo.org in the urinary tract health page. I will find it when I have time.

The other thing that the urinary diets do in addition to the salt content, which makes the cat drink more water, is they have ingredients which create a more acidic urine. This is done with a couple different ingredients. While this may help cats with urinary issues, another issue is that these urine acidifiers can be detrimental to kidney health long term. I can provide some info about that later too. Everything I've read says that a meat-based, high moisture food is what will help keep the urine at it's natural PH and the moisture will keep the bladder flushed out. Also after spending time on diabetes forums, there are quite a few diabetic cats who end becoming diabetic while eating urinary diets (high carbs and grains = some cat's pancreas' burn out). Just wanted to share some info.  

[Middle Child]

Hi Middle Child, when you put your cat back on non-prescription canned food does she develop a blockage? Dr. Lisa Pierson talks about how a small amount of crystals is not an abnormal finding. There's info and a quote about that at catinfo.org in the urinary tract health page. I will find it when I have time.

The other thing that the urinary diets do in addition to the salt content, which makes the cat drink more water, is they have ingredients which create a more acidic urine. This is done with a couple different ingredients. While this may help cats with urinary issues, another issue is that these urine acidifiers can be detrimental to kidney health long term. I can provide some info about that later too. Everything I've read says that a meat-based, high moisture food is what will help keep the urine at it's natural PH and the moisture will keep the bladder flushed out. Also after spending time on diabetes forums, there are quite a few diabetic cats who end becoming diabetic while eating urinary diets (high carbs and grains = some cat's pancreas' burn out). Just wanted to share some info.  

Thank you Gump. Yes I am aware of all the ramifications of continuing this diet.  It's why I get so stressed about it all the time. I worry constantly about her developing diabetes and kidney disease. It's why I have blood work done on her annually, and have done for the past 3 years,  even though she is only 7.  No, she does not block (females don't) Her pH jumps to 7 or 7.5 and her urine becomes full of struvite every time I try switching her back to a "high quality" non-prescription canned diet. If, rather than having her urine tested, I take the wait and see approach, she develops a UTI from the irritations and inflammations the crystals cause, because she starts to constantly strain in the litter box and wash and wash and wash that area.

She's been on clavamox so many times now, she can no longer tolerate it. So I no longer wait to see if the diet change will cause a flare up.  Now, when I try a diet change, I have her urine tested 10 weeks after the transition is complete. "Some" crystals are normal, yes, and my vet says the same.  But she is always loaded, with an elevated urine pH.

Back on the c/d, the crystals and inflammation stop, and she becomes comfortable and happy again.

This has been going on since she was one year old.

Sorry to take the thread off topic.

[Auntie Crazy]

Thank you Gump. Yes I am aware of all the ramifications of continuing this diet.  It's why I get so stressed about it all the time. I worry constantly about her developing diabetes and kidney disease. It's why I have blood work done on her annually, and have done for the past 3 years,  even though she is only 7.  No, she does not block (females don't) Her pH jumps to 7 or 7.5 and her urine becomes full of struvite every time I try switching her back to a "high quality" non-prescription canned diet. If, rather than having her urine tested, I take the wait and see approach, she develops a UTI from the irritations and inflammations the crystals cause, because she starts to constantly strain in the litter box and wash and wash and wash that area.

She's been on clavamox so many times now, she can no longer tolerate it. So I no longer wait to see if the diet change will cause a flare up.  Now, when I try a diet change, I have her urine tested 10 weeks after the transition is complete. "Some" crystals are normal, yes, and my vet says the same.  But she is always loaded, with an elevated urine pH.

Back on the c/d, the crystals and inflammation stop, and she becomes comfortable and happy again.

This has been going on since she was one year old.

Sorry to take the thread off topic.

Wow, Middle Child, you've really been through the ringer with this kitty. Have you considered a raw diet? As I'm sure you know, every system in the cat is designed to run off the raw tissues, organs and bones of other animals... including, of course, the elimination systems. A fresh meat-based diet regulates the PH of urine perfectly and would likely do so with your little girl.

Alternatively, have you considered contacting Dr. Pierson for help directly? Her contact info is in the last section of her Feline Urinary Tract Health: Cystitis, Urethral Obstruction, Urinary Tract Infection page.

<<<Hugs>>>

AC

[Middle Child]

Thank you Auntie Crazy.  No, I can't consider a raw diet at this time, and especially not for her. Raw diets are rather high in things like phosphorous and calcium, aren't they? I don't think that would be the right thing for this cat.

She was on a canned diet when her troubles first began at just over 1 year old.  Granted, it was Fancy Feast, at the time, but it was a canned diet. So, three times in the past six years, every other year, just about, I have tried to put her back on a canned diet. On the years I leave her on the disgusting c/d kibble, her pH is at 6.2 and her urine is clear (some skin cells were present one time).  On the years I attempted the change to a commercial canned diet (I always start 3 months before she is due for her urine culture) her pH is 7 or 7.5, and the urine is loaded with struvite. 

Yes, it is very frustrating. I know it sounds like I am playing that old game of "Why don't you, yes but...".  And I don't claim to know everything.  But nothing has worked for this cat but keeping her on the c/d kibble, since she won't eat the canned c/d.  I looked into trying the Purina ST/OX canned, but it contains menadione sodium bisulfite complex.  I don't like Royal Canin either, it contains powdered cellulose (saw dust).

AC, do you think the RC sawdust containing canned food would be better than the c/d kibble? Oh well, I already know you think any canned is better than kibble.  It just galls me to allow my cat to eat sawdust.  It's irrational, I know, since right now she isn't eating anything even remotely containing meat.  At least the Royal Canin SO has identifiable meat.

Oh my gosh here I go again.  I drive myself crazy with this.  Absolutely crazy.

[Auntie Crazy]

Thank you Auntie Crazy.  No, I can't consider a raw diet at this time, and especially not for her. Raw diets are rather high in things like phosphorous and calcium, aren't they? I don't think that would be the right thing for this cat.

...

AC, do you think the RC sawdust containing canned food would be better than the c/d kibble? Oh well, I already know you think any canned is better than kibble.  It just galls me to allow my cat to eat sawdust.  It's irrational, I know, since right now she isn't eating anything even remotely containing meat.  At least the Royal Canin SO has identifiable meat.

Oh my gosh here I go again.  I drive myself crazy with this.  Absolutely crazy.

No, raw diets aren't high in anything, actually. They are precisely in the range of what is optimal for cats, packaged in it's freshest, most easily and thoroughly digestible form.

Dr. Elizabeth Hodgkins, author of YourDiabeticCat.com, in her book, Your Cat: Simple New Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life: “I have never seen a single case of serious obesity, diabetes, urinary tract disease, or IBD in a cat fed meat instead of commercial dry foods. Many other people have seen the same results. Further, I do not see nutritional deficiencies in cats fed properly balanced raw-meat diets. I want to emphasize a point here. The incidence of these problems has not just declined on a raw-meat diet, they have entirely disappeared. These results are too dramatic to ignore.”

Dr. Jean Hofve, co-author of LittleBigCat.com in her article Homemade vs. Commercial Food for Cats (and Dogs!): “The most impressive evidence for homemade diets is the testimony of dozens of pet guardians, breeders, and veterinarians. Not only have I personally seen the improved health and well-being of pets on good homemade diets, but I have received dozens of first-hand reports from pet guardians citing increased health and vitality, as well as rapid disappearance of medical problems, from itchy ears to seizures.”

Ingrid King, former veterinary hospital manager turned writer and author of ConsciousCat.net in her article Feeding raw: a veterinarian’s view: “I have seen diabetes, asthma, lower urinary tract (bladder) problems, chronic vomiting and/or diarrhea (inflammatory bowel disease-type symptoms), skin and ear problems and other health issues either markedly improve or completely resolve when raw diets were introduced. Every cat will respond in their own way, but I now view real, fresh, raw food as the “best medicine” for many of my patients.”

I'm not trying to pressure you, Middle Child, I'm just distressed by the anxiety I see in your posts; I empathize with your worry over your little girl. I have helped many transition their cats to raw and seen, myself, through their experiences, what an incredible impact a fresh, raw diet can have on a cat's health.

And remember, there are quite a few options for raw feeding that didn't exist before, from an ever-increasing list of commercial products to a variety of home-preparing methods to purchasing whole prey. No matter your lifestyle and resources, I'll bet there's a raw feeding option that can be worked in. 

AC

[CarnivorousCritter]

...
Look what's in their "nurture"  dry line

Ground corn and wheat?  Wheat gluten. corn gluten meal. GARLIC, BLACK PEPPER.

Vitlaity canned:

Sorry I've gone off topic.  I'm just frustrated to the breaking point over the pet food issue these days.   I wish I could just feed what I feed and be happy with it and stop constantly searching for something better.

Please don't be sorry, MC -- you're on topic!  I'm sorry you're going through this.
I know how you feel. Only difference between your pets and my (dead) ones is there is hope for yours' health and they will never have to endure what mine did.   (Unlike you, I never got on the Internet...)

[Shadow]

Another link to read about this

http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/09/is-hills-yd-nutritious-diet-for.html

Plus read all the comments now at TAPF about this food from users
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/hills-science-diet-slow-to-respond.html

[Middle Child]

Another link to read about this

http://endocrinevet.blogspot.com/2011/09/is-hills-yd-nutritious-diet-for.html

This is an excellent article. I wish I could get people I know to read it, just for the information on cats requiring a sufficient amount of protein, and not just any protein but animal protein.

I know someone who had a senior cat on the y/d food.  The cat was having trouble tolerating the methimazole, liver problems I think it was.  At first the kitty seemed to be doing better, then she took a very sharp turn for the worse and died from heart failure a few weeks after starting the diet.

This y/d food is a TERRIBLE thing to do to people who only want the best for their beloved cats.  I used to have a pretty good opinion of Hills, way back when my girl first needed the c/d.  They were responsive to questions and comments, and my girl was thriving.  But the customer service has deteriorated, as has the food. Hills has gone greedy, at the animal's expense.