Author Topic: Addison's and dogs  (Read 8783 times)

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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #45 on: May 22, 2016, 07:04:35 PM »
Cortisol is what his body no longer makes. Prednisone is what replaces his cortisol. They can get either prednisone, prednisolone, or hydrocortisone. Prednisone works for him so there's no reason to try the others unless something changes. I asked about it when he was first diagnosed. I'm not sure about prednisolone, but I know hydrocortisone requires a much higher daily dose.

In a lot of places in the world, the shot he gets every 28 days, Percorten that replaces his aldosterone, isn't available. So they use something called Florinef in those cases, but it's not optimal for dogs. Florinef is the regularly used human medication.


I've been getting very close to talking to Mazy cat's vet about starting her on a low pred dose.  If her regurgitation schedule remains at every 5 days, why not a low dose every four days?  You know?

Sorry to derail the thread slightly but I think it all ties in?

I know that cortisol plays a HUGE role in digestion, and actually most every body function there is. You could call it the King of Hormones.

You really might want to read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Pets-Risk-Allergies-Remedies-Unsuspected/dp/0939165481

His website is at:

http://drplechner.com/learn/

You can write him at an email there. He answered several questions I had about Vlad. It's free. It can't hurt to ask. But he's not a fan of the raw diet. That's in his book. So, I didn't say anything about that when I contacted him.


Edit: I forgot to add that Florinef contains the aldosterone replacement AND the prednisone replacement in one medication.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 07:18:24 PM by DeeDee »
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2016, 07:12:31 PM »
He also has a FB page if you prefer to contact him there:


https://www.facebook.com/drplechnerdvm/?fref=ts
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #47 on: May 22, 2016, 07:33:34 PM »
I'm still trying to sort it all out.  Pookie has been talking to me about his protocol for a while.  But it wasn't until reading your thread that things started to fall into place for me.  I just didn't understand.  I thought there was some ...cortisol..medication that was controversial or something.  I didn't realize it was just pred.  I think prednisolone is what cats take, they can metablolize it better than prednsione. I've read about that in the IBD group.

I'm going to schedule Mazy cat's six month check up a little early and talk this over with the vet.

i used to be able to use voice mail, but they don't do that any more.  It's very frustrating.  She can be contacted by e mail, but she doesn't have her own e mail address, it goes into a general box, and is read, then forwarded on to her.  I dislike this new method very much.

Used to be I could call her and leave a list of things i wanted to go over with her, before the appointment, so she had time to look things up if needed.

Offline DeeDee

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #48 on: May 22, 2016, 07:49:49 PM »

Used to be I could call her and leave a list of things i wanted to go over with her, before the appointment, so she had time to look things up if needed.

When Vlad was first diagnosed, I was going in there every 28 days with pages full of questions and references to why I was asking it. He cracked me up in April for their yearly exams when I came in with only one paper showing him Vlad's new protocol that I'd worked out since I'd last seen him. (We've only been seeing a tech for Vlad's shot since December's dose.) No questions for him. Just my statement of how I found out what works for Vlad's digestion, why it does, and the things I'd found out from the humans as far as emotional aspects of Addison's goes.

He looked at me puzzled, and said. "That's it? You're letting me get off THIS easy?"  LOL

Told him, "That's it. I told you I'd understand him, how cortisol relates to the endocrine system and his problems before it was over with, and I do now. You can tell it by looking at him and his blood tests." 

He agreed.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Pookie

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #49 on: May 22, 2016, 10:15:01 PM »
Quote
About 6 months ago, when I was asking his vet about some things that I thought were symptoms (maybe), he said, "It certainly is a possibility, but we don't know. They can't talk and tell us how they feel."

Well . . . they can if you use an animal communicator.   :D

Thank you, Lola. But I don't think I'm anything special. I think I'm just more willing to study something from every angle (even if I'm looking from an unexpected angle) and am more willing to experiment until something works in the needed situation instead of just doing what I'm told--especially when what I'm told by "experts" isn't working. In this case, despite everything else going on in my life, I've just got more time than most to observe and change things up until I find something that works for sure.

That's WHY you're amazing.  Like MC said, not everyone will go to the time or effort that you did.  They'll just follow the "experts" advice and live with the situation the way it is.  So I really hope you take a moment to pat yourself on the back for that.  He's your baby, you wanted to do everything possible to help him.  And you did.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy

I thought there was some ...cortisol..medication that was controversial or something.

The controversy comes in the dosage.  Vets typically prescribe pharmacologic (high) doses of steroids like prednisilone or prednisone.  What Dr. Plechner suggests is a physiologic dose (much lower than the pharmacologic) to bring the body into balance.

Here's an example:  let's say you need to drink 50 oz of water a day to prevent yourself from becoming subclinically dehydrated.  But you're only drinking 40 oz.  You go to the doctor with symptoms and he tells you to drink 150 oz of water a day.  Well, ok, you're not going to be anywhere close to being dehydrated, but now you're dealing with other issues (e.g. bloating, urinary incontinence) because you're getting too much water.  Dr. Plechner's protocol will tell you to drink 75 oz of water/day.  You're not going to be dehydrated, but you're also not getting too much water so you're not going to have the other side effects.  You're just drinking enough to keep things in balance.

Or another way of putting it:  you have an 8 oz glass of water, and it needs to stay at 8 oz but it only contains 4 oz.  A vet will tell you to pour a gallon of water into the glass.  Well, now you have a mess (water spilled everywhere, etc.)  Dr. Plechner will tell you to add 4 oz of water to bring the glass back to 8 oz, which is where it's supposed to be.

These are just made-up examples, but I hope they clarify the difference.  Rather than giving Mazy say, 10 mg of pred a day, she might only need .25 mg a day (or .25 mg twice a day) to bring her system into balance.  Dr. Plechner provides the testing information on his site and in his book so vets can determine just how much is needed to bring the pet's system back into balance without overdoing it and "creating a mess."

I really recommend Dr. Plechner's book.  You can get it used on Amazon for a pretty low price, and you don't need a PhD to understand what he's saying.  And if you do buy/read it and have any questions, you know DeeDee and I will be happy to explain it.  :)

« Last Edit: May 22, 2016, 10:41:16 PM by Pookie »
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Addison's and dogs
« Reply #50 on: May 22, 2016, 10:43:03 PM »

The controversy comes in the dosage.  Vets are used to prescribing pharmacologic (high) doses of steroids like prednisilone or prednisone.  What Dr. Plechner suggests is a physiologic dose (much lower than the pharmacologic) to bring the body into balance.




And remind yourself that Vlad's situation is totally different from the general patient that Dr. Plechner describes, so you really can't go by any of what I do except the basic, daily dose. While he can mostly live on a daily, 5 mg physiologically, some days he can get 6, 7, 8 going all the way up to 10.5 mg. in a day--though that largest is really rare. His physiologic needs change due to any kind of stress be it bad, or just too much of something fun/good. The insufficiency condition Dr. Plechner describes doesn't really change except from patient to patient needs.

I agree with Pookie. If you will read the book, you'll understand how important cortisol or (if needed) cortisol replacement is to a body. His book is what finally connected the dots (that were all in the veterinary endocrine system textbooks that I was reading) for me.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

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