Author Topic: Are we not getting the word out?  (Read 23604 times)

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Offline Lola

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2011, 08:41:55 PM »
MC

We love EVERYONE here...wet feeders, dry feeders, raw feeders, rx feeders, etc.   love1  It is up to each individual to make up their OWN mind. 
Everything you NEED to know about caring for your feline. www.catinfo.org

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2011, 09:42:36 PM »
PS But what really scares me is people buying grocery store brand kibbles for their cats, especially MALE cats, who have already been diagnosed with urinary tract problems.

And people in vet offices telling them to do it. I don't know why the "crappy" prescription foods work, but they do.

MC,

FWIW, it is my understanding that the ingredient combination has them at the water bowl more. I see comments online as well as someone IRL that the cat drinks "plenty of water" now.  Drs. P & H & their contemporaries have a valid point when they state this, because of the thirst drive/dehydration aspect.

My biggest issue is my IRL person could put a speck of salt on her finger and let the cat lick it and not pay what she does for the ingredients dehydrating her cat, has it obese. I know your kitty isn't  thumbsup1  :) -- but it was a kick in the stomach to see hers after going through the recall nightmare confusion with our respective pets.
.  
They have simply GOT to come up with something for a species which has no Amylase enzymes; grinding teeth; rotating jaws; a thirst drive, or sell nothing at all.  They (the "Partnership")  have both the resources and the money to do this. Instead, cats continue to suffer the same now-common, man made maladies, over and over.

MC
We love EVERYONE here...wet feeders, dry feeders, raw feeders, rx feeders, etc.   love1  It is up to each individual to make up their OWN mind.


 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1  It would be a boring world if we were all clones  :)

« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 09:47:22 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline Shadow

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2011, 09:57:59 PM »
PS But what really scares me is people buying grocery store brand kibbles for their cats, especially MALE cats, who have already been diagnosed with urinary tract problems.

And people in vet offices telling them to do it. I don't know why the "crappy" prescription foods work, but they do.
My post disapeared into never, never land. So here goes again..The thing is that the grocery store brands, and the Vet prescribed foods are the same, except for maybe one or two ingredients.  For example, they add more salt to the Urine foods to make the cat drink more.  MC what brand of food are you feeding? I know that Elizabeth Hodgkins does prescribe these foods when nothing else works, so do not feel bad.  Though my concern is that with some of these foods your cat may get the opposite crystals (oxalate) in the long term, which is worse than struvite. Did you know that cats all have a small amount of struvite crystals in them? Did your doctor tell you that it was a really bad case of them? Dont worry we are all in this together trying to figure this all out. :)
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2011, 10:12:33 PM »
Shadow, Dr Hodgkins has the patent on Purina d/m wet;
It had the lowest Carb content of them all and even that was not followed to the T.  They have since come out with variations to avoid the patent.

Here is the Dr's statement: http://www.freewebs.com/petfoodcampaign/hodgkinspetforum.htm

(There is also her Testimony to the Senate Appropriations Committee in 2007 http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:DGyNk1__Sx4J:appropriations.senate.gov/news.cfm%3Fmethod%3Dnews.download%26id%3D7d2fb09b-c471-488d-a2ed-eb3d1655d171+dr+elizabeth+hodgkins,+senate&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESisTk5cPXCe2qRc4lTzGwydeQd8vpqMVooMe_G5yQebpTxWSRrK
WbwQ0WiX0AY3UnLHR9J28wdNJTuhLCvqKSu212hjYKKfpdVWKCAVdmz_WDAw3tv-wsVAPk0pr8dzMJIjEMsv&sig=AHIEtbT-ToY9ndTCe0cIhex4GYxFkgcE0g )

She would never recommend or prescribe a dry/high carb food over wet/lo carb alternatives.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 10:14:34 PM by CarnivorousCritter »

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2011, 10:16:16 PM »
Here's an excerpt:

Medical claims are similarly unfounded and untested prior to marketing. The best example of this is the marketing of feline diets for “urinary tract health” (specifically, a type of crystal or stone known as struvite urolithaisis). When these foods were originally introduced, they had never been tested for long-term safety in the laboratory. Decades later, we now know that those foods caused a disease of a different type (calcium oxylate urolitiasis) in many of the pets they were supposed to be treating for the original problem. This very serious side effect came to light in owned pets whose owners spent considerable time and money to treat with the original diet. It was not discovered prior to the marketing of many millions of dollars of the untested diet. Many pet food companies copied the original “urinary tract diet formulas,” with similar results in people’s pets.

The pet food industry’s response was to develop a new diet that is said to correct this problem. Unfortunately, this new diet is no better tested than the old diet, and we cannot be confident that this diet to correct the old one will not cause a new problem, yet to be discovered in the decades ahead as this food is vigorously prescribed by veterinarians, and purchased widely by concerned owners trying to save their pets.

When will this scientific insanity end? It appears that no matter how many problems arise in commercial pet foods, no one, not the pet food companies, nor the regulators of the pet food industry, do anything meaningful to bring the actual safety and quality of pet foods into conformance with the high-sounding label claims these foods carry. Why should the pet food industry be allowed to do something no human food industry would be allowed to do?

I believe the solution is to eliminate the claims, and allow pet foods to compete in the marketplace without them, as human foods do. In time, if certain pet food companies wish to make those claims again, they should be required to prove their foods deserve them. The industry will never take this step on its own. Government must step up and make this change to protect the pet owner and the pet.

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2011, 10:24:24 PM »
My post disapeared into never, never land. So here goes again..The thing is that the grocery store brands, and the Vet prescribed foods are the same, except for maybe one or two ingredients.  For example, they add more salt to the Urine foods to make the cat drink more.  MC what brand of food are you feeding? I know that Elizabeth Hodgkins does prescribe these foods when nothing else works, so do not feel bad.  Though my concern is that with some of these foods your cat may get the opposite crystals (oxalate) in the long term, which is worse than struvite. Did you know that cats all have a small amount of struvite crystals in them? Did your doctor tell you that it was a really bad case of them? Dont worry we are all in this together trying to figure this all out. :)


 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1

Dr Pierson explains:

t is important to note, however, that "crystals" are not the same thing as stones.  Crystals are often a normal finding in a cat's urine and it is not necessarily appropriate to put the cat on a "special urinary tract" formula when these are found in the urine.

Important: I often see too much clinical significance placed on the identification of crystals in the urine without regard to how the urine sample was handled.  It is very important to understand that crystals will often form once outside of the body within a very short (30-60 minutes) period of time.  If the veterinarian does not examine the urine right away and either sends it to an outside laboratory or uses a free-catch sample that the owner brought from home, an erroneous diagnosis of crystals may be made.  This is called a "false positive" report and results in unnecessary worry on the part of the owner and often leads to the cat being placed on an inappropriate, low quality diet.

With regard to overall kidney and bladder health, I cannot stress strongly enough how important water is in both the prevention and treatment of...  www.catinfo.org/#Cystitis_

Offline Shadow

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2011, 10:29:10 PM »
CC I recall that in her book "Your Cat" that she did recommend a wet food that was prescription, but it was not Purina, it was a Royal Canin one I believe but she called it Veteranarian something wish I could find that page right now.  It was for cats that had allergies, Or IBD I believe. If you find it let me know.
Where is spelling check when you need it??  lol!!
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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2011, 10:41:59 PM »
The thing is that the grocery store brands, and the Vet prescribed foods are the same, except for maybe one or two ingredients.  For example, they add more salt to the Urine foods to make the cat drink more.  MC what brand of food are you feeding? Dont worry we are all in this together trying to figure this all out. :)

Have to quote you again Shadow  :) MC has mentioned it in another thread; I had these from an earlier comparison as someone I know feeds the same:

This is store bought:
Chicken By-Product Meal, Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Powdered Cellulose, Whole Grain Corn, Chicken Liver Flavor, Lactic Acid, Soybean Oil, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Choline Chloride DL-Methionine,    http://www.hillspet.com/products/sd-feline-adult-hairball-control-dry.html


Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Fish Oil, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Iodized Salt, Potassium Citrate, vitamins (Vitamin E Su   http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-feline-cd-multicare-feline-bladder-health-dry.html

Offline Shadow

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2011, 10:49:37 PM »
Hills CD ingredients urinary
Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Pork Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Chicken Liver Flavor, Fish Oil, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Sulfate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Iodized Salt, Potassium Citrate, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Taurine, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), preserved with BHT and BHA, Beta-Carotene

Royal Canin S/O ingredients:
Chicken meal, rice, corn gluten meal, ground corn, chicken fat, natural flavors, cellulose powder, sodium chloride, dried brewers yeast, dried egg powder, potassium chloride, calcium sulfate, monosodium phosphate, choline chloride, calcium carbonate, taurine, DL-methionine, vitamins [DL-alpha-tocopherol (source of vitamin E), niacin, biotin, riboflavin (vitamin B2), D-calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin A acetate, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid], trace minerals [zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, calcium iodate], preserved with natural mixed tocopherols, rosemary extract, and citric acid

Purina Urinary Ingredients:
Corn gluten meal, chicken, poultry by-product meal, brewers rice, oat fiber, wheat gluten, whole grain corn, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), salt, animal liver flavor, phosphoric acid, dried egg product, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, fish oil, choline chloride, taurine, zinc sulfate, Vitamin E supplement, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, niacin, Vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, Vitamin B-12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, Vitamin D-3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), sodium selenite

Techni cal Urinary Ingredients:
Ground corn, chicken meal, corn gluten meal, ground wheat, natural flavour, chicken fat, calcium carbonate, phosphoric acid, cultured yeast, salt, dried yeast, potassium, choline, vitamins (Vitamin E, Vitamin C, niacin, inositol, Vitamin A, thiamine B1, d-pantothenate, pyridoxine B6, riboflavin B2, Vitamin K, beta-carotene, Vitamin D3, folic acid, biotin, Vitamin B12), minerals (zinc, iron, copper, manganese, iodine, selenium), taurine, DL-methionine, Yucca schidigera extract

Medi-cal Urinary
Chicken Meal, Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Corn, Chicken Fat, Natural Flavour, Soy Protein Isolate, Powdered Cellulose, Salt, Dried Egg Powder, Dried Brewer’s Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Fish Oil, Sodium Bisulphate, Calcium Sulphate, Soybean Oil, Taurine, Choline Chloride, DL-Methionine, Vitamins (DL-Alpha-Tocopherol [Source of Vitamin E], Niacin, Biotin, Riboflavin [Vitamin B2], D-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride [Vitamin B6], Vitamin A Acetate, Thiamine Mononitrate [Vitamin B1], Folic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement and Vitamin D3 Supplement), Trace Minerals (Zinc Oxide, Zinc Proteinate, Ferrous Sulphate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulphate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate and Sodium Selenite) and Marigold Extract (Source of Lutein). Naturally Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract and Citric Acid. Approximately 292 kcal/cup, 386 kcal/100 g, 76 g/cup


Lets compare the diets......
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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #24 on: July 13, 2011, 10:50:58 PM »
CC I recall that in her book "Your Cat" that she did recommend a wet food that was prescription, but it was not Purina, it was a Royal Canin one I believe but she called it Veteranarian something wish I could find that page right now.  It was for cats that had allergies, Or IBD I believe. If you find it let me know.
Where is spelling check when you need it??  lol!!

But it was wet.   :)  You scared me.  :o   ;D  Since Purina diverted further away from the food she developed, I reckon the RC one must have the lower carb content of the two.    

LOL     ;) I hear ya with the spelling, I'm the Edit Freak.  

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2011, 10:57:26 PM »

Lets compare the diets......

OMG to what?  :o  poophitfan                >:D    cat3  (They're all dry, right?)


I'd like to know what Dr H's original recipe was; the wet d/m food was the only one she developed/patented back in the day.  The variation/subsequents were out of her hands.  :(

Offline Shadow

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2011, 10:58:32 PM »
My hubby is kicking me off the computer. Ill be back!!! throwfit
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Offline Shadow

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2011, 10:59:47 PM »
OMG to what?  :o  poophitfan                >:D    cat3  (They're all dry, right?)


I'd like to know what Dr H's original recipe was; the wet d/m food was the only one she developed/patented back in the day.  The variation/subsequents were out of her hands.  :(
Yes they are all the dry diets...Im trying to figure this all out, and trying to help MC maybe.... :)
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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2011, 01:01:14 AM »
Ewww (from the Purina one)

...animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), salt, animal liver flavor,

I don't even want to google that one   catsterpuke

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #29 on: July 14, 2011, 01:08:46 AM »
Hills CD ingredients urinary
Brewers Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-Product ........ BHT and BHA,Beta-Carotene

  >:(   :o  Thought they'd done away with these things!  The food they wanted our dog on had them (& Ethoxyquin) but that one no longer has them listed according to their site!! (At least not in the US, in the dog food I looked at.)  

« Last Edit: July 14, 2011, 01:15:01 AM by CarnivorousCritter »