Author Topic: Are we not getting the word out?  (Read 23599 times)

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Offline Shadow

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2011, 02:29:27 PM »
But I honestly wonder if it ever could? Wouldn't a feline have to be cross-bred with a species with differing physiology-anatomies to achieve some sort of "compromise"?
Yes it could happen, its called envioromental pressures.
Lucy at Catster made a post about this I will have to go and find it later. Have to rush to work pretty soon.
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline Shadow

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2011, 02:33:15 PM »
Found it actually this post was to you CC, mol!! this is quoted from Lucy at Catster.
Buddy: actually, the shape of an animal's teeth can evolve over time.

This may have already been said, but didn't have time to do more than skim...

Evolution doesn't only take place over the course of thousands of years -- you can see it in action with fruit flies (a favorite test subject for scientists studying evolution given their short life span) and bacteria.

Some of the factors that influence how quickly it happens are the strength of the environmental pressure and how quickly the organism in question reproduces.

With cats specifically, females begin producing in their first year or life, tend to go into estrus in the spring (so generally one litter a year), and the African Wild Cat (the closest relative of the domestic cat) lives an average of 12-15 years.

One can view individual breeds as a form of evolution -- the environmental pressures to evolve were manmade, and the "natural" selection was in fact human selection, but as far as the development of certain genetic traits and the extinction of others, that's happening right before our eyes as new breeds are created.

That said, changes in digestive tracts and tooth configuration take longer. Commercial catfood feeding wasn't widespread until after WWII, and even after that, there were still quite a few barn cats living off what they caught and interbreeding with more domesticated domestic cats. That's a mere eyeblink in evolutionary time -- I'm not sure that's enough time for major changes to how cats absorb nutrients, process carbs, or anything like that. Allergies, maybe.

But it's also worth noting that evolution isn't really being allowed to happen naturally with domesticated cats -- or at least it's pretty severely constrained, in that many of the cats who are best-positioned to survive to reproduce (those with happy homes, health care, protection from predators, and a steady supply of food) are the ones that we're spaying and neutering.

We are increasingly controlling which cats are allowed to reproduce, and -- since, increasingly, the cats allowed to reproduce are purebreds -- we're choosing which traits are selected for.

In natural selection, the traits that are selected are generally those that give organisms an advantage in surviving to reproduce. They may be traits that allow them to survive on less specialized food sources, that give them advantages in escaping from predators, etc.

We're not selecting for traits that have much to do with survival; we're selecting for coat length and eye color and ear size. There may be cats out there that have mutations that allow them to better process carbohydrates, or give them partial immunity to toxins, but those mutations are undetectable to us, and not likely to be linked to the sort of traits that we do select for, so whether any of the cats who have them are being allowed to reproduce (i.e. whether they're happening among purebreds or the other group most likely to reproduce -- ferals) is anyone's guess.

This isn't an argument against spaying and neutering, incidentally. But the fact that we're in essence creating our own evolutionary pressures to replace natural ones, and selecting for traits that don't have anything to do with nutrition, means that it's that much more imperative to feed cats a diet that corresponds to what we know about where their nature left their digestive systems before we took over their evolution.

http://www.catster.com/forums/Food_and_Nutrition/thread/690380/3
« Last Edit: July 15, 2011, 02:49:56 PM by Lola, Reason: added link »
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2011, 03:09:25 PM »
Thanks Shadow    :) :)

It was a very good write-up (PMed Lucy thanking her)  but I still believe they'd have to be cross bred with something else to have a different physiology,  to conform to eating these diets.  They'd have to be bred with a species that has Amylase enzymes too, wouldn't they?   How would these things develop in a cat, by themselves? Eating species-inappropriate foods isn't going to change what they are.

Or they'd have to be injected with stuff, I'd imagine?  I guess my question is, just how far will man go to conform a species to what is convenient and profitable for us humans?   

Offline Pookie

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2011, 04:57:15 PM »
From CC's post:

Hill's employee named NAVTA's Veterinary Technician of the Year
http://www.hillspet.com/hillsvet/articles/articleDetail.hjsp?JSESSIONID=NL8yfEk3h1Mty03NCe96iiW2jS2EOP7Oz0gs9cX1xOYxa0UEM2Dy!-99010741!167846924!7005!8005&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=1408474395192518&FOLDER%3C%3EbrowsePath=1408474395192518&bmUID=1300987122328
 
 
"...member of a number of associations, including NAVTA, the American Association of Veterinary Nutrition, the American Animal Hospital Association, the American Veterinary Dental Society,... to name a few. She also serves on a number of national committees ...  currently the president of the Kansas Veterinary Technician Association and is a member of the organizing committee for the Academy of Veterinary Nutrition Technicians. She is frequently invited to speak at national and state conferences and has penned a monthly nutrition column...
 
",,, a unique opportunity to help veterinary technicians across North America ... "I work with technicians at the local, state, specialty and national level. I speak and write about nutrition and disease, >>>"
 
d. In 1981, the Partnership morphed into the Delta Society, an organization that continues to thrive and co-sponsors the Bustad Award along with the American Veterinary Medical Association and Hill’s Pet Nutrition. http://speakingforspot.com/blog/?tag=hills-pet-nutrition
 
 
http://www.germinder.com/case_hills.php  Our association with Hill's Pet Nutrition, Inc., a leader in pet nutrition in the veterinary profession and to the pet-owning public, is longstanding. The relationship began with our president's creation of the Pets Need Dental Care, Too! campaign in 1995 with Hill's Pet Nutrition, the American Veterinary Medical Association, the American Veterinary Dental Society and the American Veterinary Dental College...



Boy, am I REALLY drepressed now . . .  :'( :'( :'(

I wish I had the answers.  I still think the changes will start with either the vets (the ones who are open-minded and will listen) and the pet parents.  All we can do is keep trying to get the word out on what we’ve learned.
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2011, 05:55:47 PM »
Pookie   grouphug


People don't know about this. And that's just scratching the surface. A search will yield endless hits for each major company.

I have permission from my friend to share this, from a Veterinary Publication (several of her letters have been published; glad she included the next letter from a veterinarian!):


CRITICISM OF VETS' BLIND FAITH IN PET FOOD

Dear editor,

I wonder if I might be allowed to reply to Martin Atkinson’s protestations
in his letter “Where were all the other pet food letters?” (August
11 issue), in which he has criticised myself and Roger Meacock.
In his letter, Mr Atkinson says “more pets are going to die from
malnutrition” than from manufactured pet food.

Upon checking Mr Atkinson’s website, I see he sells at least six different kinds of pet food
and clearly this is why he is defending it. No vet should be allowed to
sell pet food and Trading Standards, which is responsible for the new
consumer law that came into force in May, is currently conducting a
review.
The excellent new book by Michael Fox, Elizabeth Hodgkins
and Marion Smart entitled Not Fit for a Dog! The Truth About Manufactured
Pet Food is a book all vets and veterinary students should read
to educate them about the illnesses pet food is causing – in fact, in
the foreword, Richard Allport says he would like to lock them away
in a room until they had done so.

If Mr Atkinson would like to look at the website of Dr Fox at
http://tedeboy.tripod.com/drmichaelwfox/id88.html (404 error) he will see
details of at least 70 veterinary research papers that show that pet
food is causing cancer, kidney failure, diabetes, dilated cardiomyopathy,
hyperthyroidism, struvite crystals, calcium oxalate stones,
cystitis, IBD, dermatological problems, etc.

Mr Atkinson also wrongly says that more pets will die from “poorly stored and prepared raw
meaty bones than ever will from the one bag in a billion of contaminated
dog or cat food”. This is completely wrong; may I refer Mr
Atkinson to the website of Cornell University’s veterinary school,
which, under the heading “Dogs keep dying: too many owners
still unaware of toxic dog food”, explains that dry pet food is quite
literally capable of killing dogs (www.news.cornell.edu/stories/Jan06/dogs.dying.ssl.html). In America last year, Banfield Veterinary
Clinic estimated that 39,000 cats and dogs had either become ill or
died as a direct result of eating pet food.

Many vets have blind faith in pet food because they sell it and make
a profit, both from the sale of it and from the illness it eventually
causes. I am hoping Trading Standards will ban vets from selling pet
food once its investigation is complete, since, in my view, it is a conflict
of interest for them to sell it.

Finally, I would like to say that pets fed pet
food do have malnutrition, because no pet food contains anything like
the level of nutrients pets need and the result is all kinds of illness.
Yours faithfully,
==

Why do we continue to
promote pet food?
Dear editor,

For more than 20 years I’ve been reading veterinary reports of ridiculously
high percentages of pets with dental disease. My own little Jack
Russell cross is now 18. She has suffered repeated anaesthesia and
dental extractions during a lifetime of dry food. In the past few years,
I have opened my eyes to the raw food argument.

 My two young Jack Russell crosses are now aged two and four. They have been on
a raw food diet for the past year. Their early plaque has disappeared
and their health shows no sign of deteriorating.

Why do we continue to stock, and thereby promote, food
that leads to such a high percentage of pets suffering recurring
periodontal disease (up to 80 per cent)? Isn’t that just the complete
opposite to what we are trying to achieve? Could raw food
cause such a high percentage of disease?
Yours faithfully,
===MVB, MRCVS,


Here is a letter to Veterinarians by three Veterinarians:  http://petfood-bad.blogspot.com

Wednesday, May 2, 2007

Pet Food & Nutrition: A Necessary Review For Veterinarians
M.E. Smart, C. Haggart, J.A. Mills

Introduction

This paper reviews the current status of the pet food industry from a veterinarian's perspective. Summaries of market features, regulation and non-regulation are presented. In addition to a review of the industry, we also discuss the value of information currently provided to veterinarians and their clients, and some of its consequences.


1. Introduction

Two diametrically opposed views exist today on how capable or knowledgeable a veterinarian is in providing their clients with nutritional advice:

The first is commonly held by the pet food industry, government regulators, the veterinary professionals who work for them, and passively by most veterinarians. This predominant view is that because of the pet food industry's commitment to pet health and nutrition, it is providing the public and veterinary profession with regulatory standards, diets, and nutritional information based on the latest research and best knowledge available. Accepting this, the veterinary profession endorses their products without question.

The second view is supported by some veterinarians and a rising number of pet owners and small pet food producers. This view maintains that the pet food industry has wooed the veterinary profession through sponsorship, allowing this industry to frame the discussion on nutrition while gaining credibility from the profession as an unbiased provider of nutritional education....
The purpose of this review is to give veterinarians a clearer picture of the complex environment surrounding these issues. We do not intend to lay blame, but to bring to light assumptions and compromises that have been made and to stimulate a higher level of understanding and discussion.

Prevention is considered across disciplines to be the best kind of medicine, and diet is one of the most significant ways that a pet owner can ensure the health of their pets. Veterinarians must provide detailed and scientifically proven dietary advice. To accomplish this, veterinarians must understand both the current scientific, commercial, and regulatory environment surrounding nutritional claims. Armed with this information, practicing companion animal veterinarians will be able to give better advice to their clients and research veterinarians may be able to better identify the numerous gaps in our current knowledge and discern how we can move forward.

 Professor Smart co-Authored "Not Fit For a Dog" with Hodgkins & Fox
« Last Edit: July 16, 2011, 11:55:50 AM by Lola, Reason: Made most of your links clickable »

Offline Pookie

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2011, 06:02:51 PM »
Stiiiiiiill depressed . . .
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline Pookie

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2011, 06:11:10 PM »
Bumpurr's brofur, Cruiser, had started a thread on Catster about "How do we educate pet parents?"  My response is below:

"I made a flyer that I post in my local library and at the bulletin board in my grocery store that directs people to various websites including catinfo.org, catnutrition.org, felinediabetes, ibdkitties, etc. Those links are also on little pull-off tabs at the bottom of the flyer. The purpose isn't so much to share information about the ingredients in pet food as to make people aware what's species-appropriate, and the impact a non-appropriate diet can have on our kitties' health.

I also have little "business cards" that lists those web address, so that if I'm in a store or at work and the topic of pet nutrition comes up, I can offer them the card. Just to be clear, by business card I'm not using any logos or anything, just saying if you want to learn more info. please visit these websites. The back of the card has a list of recommended reading including Dr. Hodgkins' book, "Your Cat: Simple Secrets to a Longer, Stronger Life."  (end post)


If anyone wants a copy of the flyer I made (which reminds me, I need to update that thing) or the business card, let me know via the message system here and I'll be happy to email it to you (it's a Word document).  You're welcome to make whatever changes you like.  I got the cards from Staples (they're blank) and could only be printed on one side, so I also printed labels to put on the backs of the cards.  That's one way to get the word out!   ;D ;D ;D
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2011, 06:15:32 PM »
Pookie, that is excellent!!   thumbsup1 :)

Offline Mo

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #53 on: July 15, 2011, 06:40:27 PM »
http://feline-nutrition.org/one-page-guides also work well as a handout or something to hang up in a public place.

Offline Shadow

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2011, 01:48:34 AM »
Thanks Shadow    :) :)

It was a very good write-up (PMed Lucy thanking her)  but I still believe they'd have to be cross bred with something else to have a different physiology,  to conform to eating these diets.  They'd have to be bred with a species that has Amylase enzymes too, wouldn't they?   How would these things develop in a cat, by themselves? Eating species-inappropriate foods isn't going to change what they are.

Or they'd have to be injected with stuff, I'd imagine?  I guess my question is, just how far will man go to conform a species to what is convenient and profitable for us humans?   
I think that the "envioromental pressures" that being the dry food that most people feed their cats could change something in their systems. :-\
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline Shadow

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2011, 01:56:58 AM »
I just had an idea people, mol!! Ok for those of us who use Google to look stuff up on the net.  Lets do this:
Google cat nutrition, now wait until you find catinfo.org, it may be a few pages, Im not sure, I havent done it yet so, anyhow. Click on catinfo.org, now do this whenever you think about it. You can also put the word out to your friends to do this who are passionate about cat nutrition.  Now you ask why do this? Well the more hits that the site gets when you search for cat nutrition, will move her site near the begining.  So there is more chance people will see it. You dont want to put feline nutrition as the search, as most lay persons will not put that in when they are searching for advice.  You could also try searching for "best food to feed cat", then search until you find catinfo.org.
It takes up some of your time, but it does work,. :)
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline Mo

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #56 on: July 16, 2011, 09:50:58 AM »
When I searched for "cat nutrition" catnutrition.org comes up first and catinfo.org comes second thumbsup1

When I searched for "best cat food" blakkatz "the truth about dry cat food" comes up fifth.

For "best food to feed cat" catinfo.org comes up first.

"good cat food" catinfo.org comes up first.

"healthy cat food brand" needs some work...I went through the first 12 pages and no good sites came up.  We should try to at least knock cat chow off of the second place on the first page.

"good food for kitten" catinfo.org is on the first page, but it is the last site to pop up.


Offline Shadow

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #57 on: July 16, 2011, 12:19:24 PM »
That is great Mo, I went to bed after my post last night, and now Im off to the hospital....so
Im going to try and think of things people would put in search.
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2011, 03:03:21 PM »
As I was driving around yesterday, I had an idea:  vanity plates.  Something like "NOKIBBL"  ;D

Then I had another idea, bumper stickers!  If there's a way to make bumper stickers (kind of like the labels or business cards--buy the blank and print on it), we could put all sorts of messages out there about feline nutrition.

Shadow, great idea on the Google searches!   clapping1  We could do that for Yahoo! and Bing, too.
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
"Pass on what you have learned."  -- Yoda, Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi

Offline Mo

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Re: Are we not getting the word out?
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2011, 06:46:32 PM »
There are sites that you can make your own bumper stickers on - you could also make t-shirts thumbsup1

Something that I have done, before, is putting a message on the local pet section on craigslist with links to the typical sites: catinfo.org etc.  More often than not they get flagged/deleted - but still, each time I do it, I get emails from people thanking me because they didn't know any better till I posted that.