Parenting-Furkids

Dogs => Dog Food And Nutrition => Raw Feeding => Topic started by: Lola on May 20, 2016, 02:44:45 PM

Title: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Lola on May 20, 2016, 02:44:45 PM
As most of you already know... I have been feeding Lacy dog a raw diet for a while.  I feed her from a variety of sources ... raw meat from Hare-Today, dehydrated raw, commercial frozen raw, etc. There is so much info out there (not everyone says the same thing) that I want to be sure that she gets everything she is needing.  I mix her varieties up a LOT! 
I spent SO much time keeping veggies and carbs away from the cats, that I have to remind myself that some foods that are bad for cats are very good for dogs. 

A few snips I found interesting.  Bolding is mine... 

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If you are feeding a raw diet, you may already know that the commonly followed ratio of meat, raw bones and veggies is 50/25/25.


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Because protein takes longer to digest, if you feed fruit and protein together, fruit may start to ferment, creating alcohol.

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One of the reasons why some dogs refuse to eat vegetables is because in natural settings wild canines eat plant material pre-digested.

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For some reason, dogs do not have a good ability to digest carrots, especially if they are coarsely grated or in chunks. Some sources are also concerned about the levels of sugar in carrots

Most know to avoid onions. 

There is a lot of info to read.  The full article can be read here:  http://peterdobias.com/blogs/blog/11014993-what-veggies-are-good-for-dogs

Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: DeeDee on May 20, 2016, 03:18:55 PM
Since I have to cook veggies for Vlad now, I quit worrying about keeping it separate from their meat. Raw veggie/fruit lunch just wasn't working for him anymore. He seems fine again now that he's getting mostly low-heat cooked for fresh and frozen, or some organic canned that I rinse to remove more potassium.

Except for the organic canned that I can always find at Aldi, they're eating seasonal organics. I can always find fresh, organic carrots at Aldi though, but I never know what I'm going to find the next 6 weeks in the produce or frozen section. This is working for them. Two meals a day, at least 2 poops a day. No burping or indigestion unless he has had a stressful day and runs out of prednisone by dinnertime. Solution for that is simple. Give him another mg of prednisone.

I've been mixing up veg/fruit puree today.
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 24, 2017, 07:48:42 AM
Any thoughts on Honest Kitchen to mix with the raw meat?  If this works, it would be perfect for me, as I could just set aside some of the chopped up meat when I make cat food to mix with it.  With no meat grinder, and no way to get one in the foreseeable future, anything that saves time would be a blessing to me.  Dicing up all that meat by hand is quite labor-intensive! 

I've pretty much decided against raw on the bone for them right now - Lily is much too fond of hiding her treasures in my bed.  Not so bad if it's a beef tendon or bully stick, but I really don't want to lie down and find myself snuggled up to a half-eaten chicken thigh!  I'm going to have to find some other way of achieving the correct balance, with foods the dogs are not tempted to carry away from their bowls to eat. 
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: DeeDee on December 24, 2017, 08:49:04 AM
Any thoughts on Honest Kitchen to mix with the raw meat?  If this works, it would be perfect for me, as I could just set aside some of the chopped up meat when I make cat food to mix with it.  With no meat grinder, and no way to get one in the foreseeable future, anything that saves time would be a blessing to me.  Dicing up all that meat by hand is quite labor-intensive! 


I know a lot of people that use Honest Kitchen, Sojos, and Dr Harvey's. We use some Dr. Harvey's when we're in the RV. We've got one of the larger refrigerators in ours, but it's still limiting if we're going to be gone for a week because we have to have food too. We just don't feed it all the time because it's price prohibitive since I've got a giant in the house.



I've pretty much decided against raw on the bone for them right now - Lily is much too fond of hiding her treasures in my bed.  Not so bad if it's a beef tendon or bully stick, but I really don't want to lie down and find myself snuggled up to a half-eaten chicken thigh!  I'm going to have to find some other way of achieving the correct balance, with foods the dogs are not tempted to carry away from their bowls to eat. 


I no longer feed ours any bone b/c since he developed Addison's, Vlad has problems digesting bone. It comes out too whole, and I'm not giving him more prednisone just to help digest it. The cortisol that prednisone replaces is a really important part of digestion. So, I use calcium citrate supplements. The formula is 800-1000 mg per pound of meat. I wouldn't worry about it though if you're going to feed one of those other food-mixers.
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 24, 2017, 09:50:59 AM
I know a lot of people that use Honest Kitchen, Sojos, and Dr Harvey's. We use some Dr. Harvey's when we're in the RV. We've got one of the larger refrigerators in ours, but it's still limiting if we're going to be gone for a week because we have to have food too. We just don't feed it all the time because it's price prohibitive since I've got a giant in the house.



I no longer feed ours any bone b/c since he developed Addison's, Vlad has problems digesting bone. It comes out too whole, and I'm not giving him more prednisone just to help digest it. The cortisol that prednisone replaces is a really important part of digestion. So, I use calcium citrate supplements. The formula is 800-1000 mg per pound of meat. I wouldn't worry about it though if you're going to feed one of those other food-mixers.

Cost won't be a big issue, at least with Honest Kitchen, as I'm feeding a Chihuahua and a Pomeranian.  I'm not familiar with Sojos or Dr. Harvey's, but I will check those out, too.  I like the idea of some kind of base mix, as that would make it easier to offer a variety of protein sources.   
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 25, 2017, 02:28:19 PM
Cost won't be a big issue, at least with Honest Kitchen, as I'm feeding a Chihuahua and a Pomeranian.  I'm not familiar with Sojos or Dr. Harvey's, but I will check those out, too.  I like the idea of some kind of base mix, as that would make it easier to offer a variety of protein sources.   

Okay, I am trying all three of these.  Ordered the smallest packages I could, and I will see how the dogs like them.  If all go over well, I may use them in rotation.  I need *something* to put in those airtight bins I bought for kibble.   ;D
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: DeeDee on December 25, 2017, 03:48:47 PM
Okay, I am trying all three of these.  Ordered the smallest packages I could, and I will see how the dogs like them.  If all go over well, I may use them in rotation.  I need *something* to put in those airtight bins I bought for kibble.   ;D

I tried all three in the beginning too! Since Barkly is the picky one, it ended up being his choice more than anything else. I won a bag of Dr. Harvey's, then decided to try the other two. He'd eat all of them, but he gobbled the Dr. Harvey's.

There's also Grandma Lucy's, but I don't think they make just the add-in, I think they're all meals. We've never tried this brand, but you can try samples of it for $1:00 each:

https://www.grandmalucys.com/products/samples
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 26, 2017, 12:37:26 AM
I tried all three in the beginning too! Since Barkly is the picky one, it ended up being his choice more than anything else. I won a bag of Dr. Harvey's, then decided to try the other two. He'd eat all of them, but he gobbled the Dr. Harvey's.

There's also Grandma Lucy's, but I don't think they make just the add-in, I think they're all meals. We've never tried this brand, but you can try samples of it for $1:00 each:

https://www.grandmalucys.com/products/samples

It looks like they do make a base mix.  I might try some samples later on.  Between a new scale, these three base mixes, and all the stuff I just got for the cats, I've reached my spending limit for this week!  I'll just be happy when the mixes I ordered get here.  My dogs, especially Bandit, are pestering me to death every time I take out the cats' homemade food.  They still have their Tylee's, but they want the raw, and I can't give them any, because I've already put in the Alnutrin, which is for cats only.  I have several lbs. of surface-baked chicken in the freezer, just waiting to get started when the mixes arrive.
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Middle Child on December 26, 2017, 05:19:28 AM
Just following. :)
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Lola on December 26, 2017, 10:32:01 AM
My dogs, especially Bandit, are pestering me to death every time I take out the cats' homemade food.  They still have their Tylee's, but they want the raw, and I can't give them any, because I've already put in the Alnutrin, which is for cats only.  I have several lbs. of surface-baked chicken in the freezer, just waiting to get started when the mixes arrive.

I add Alnutrin to the raw meat I get from Hare-Today and the grocery store.  Lacy dog and the cats all eat it.  It is safe for both. 

The only meals that are different, between Lacy dog and the cats, are the meals that contain fruits and veggies (Honest Kitchen base)...  I dont feed the cats Honest Kitchen anything. 
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 26, 2017, 01:40:06 PM
I add Alnutrin to the raw meat I get from Hare-Today and the grocery store.  Lacy dog and the cats all eat it.  It is safe for both. 

The only meals that are different, between Lacy dog and the cats, are the meals that contain fruits and veggies (Honest Kitchen base)...  I dont feed the cats Honest Kitchen anything.

So it's okay for dogs to have some?  The package says cats only, but I couldn't really see what the problem would be, I was just being super careful.  I was planning to just prep the meat, and then keep some back for the dogs when I make cat food, but if they can have Alnutrin, too, it will be that much easier for me.  I wouldn't want to do it if they were bigger dogs, as Alnutrin is not cheap, but Bandit probably weighs less than my largest cats, and Lily is smaller even than Mouse or Violet.  I need to weigh the dogs today.   

Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Lola on December 28, 2017, 03:35:11 PM
So it's okay for dogs to have some?  The package says cats only, but I couldn't really see what the problem would be, I was just being super careful.  I was planning to just prep the meat, and then keep some back for the dogs when I make cat food, but if they can have Alnutrin, too, it will be that much easier for me.  I wouldn't want to do it if they were bigger dogs, as Alnutrin is not cheap, but Bandit probably weighs less than my largest cats, and Lily is smaller even than Mouse or Violet.  I need to weigh the dogs today.   



There was a technical reason why Alnutrin can't say it is safe for dogs, but I can't remember what they said.  Email and ask them!  They are very friendly and helpful.

Also, half the world says if you are feeding 80/10/5/5... don't need to add anything.  The other half says you do.  For that reason... I do both.  :) 
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 29, 2017, 04:26:13 AM
There was a technical reason why Alnutrin can't say it is safe for dogs, but I can't remember what they said.  Email and ask them!  They are very friendly and helpful.

Also, half the world says if you are feeding 80/10/5/5... don't need to add anything.  The other half says you do.  For that reason... I do both.  :)

Some legal technicality would be my guess.  I'm not going to worry about it.  I'll still probably leave it out of the dogs' food, just because it's kind of expensive if they don't actually need it, but I didn't seen anything in the ingredient list that would hurt a dog, and it certainly wouldn't be the first time my dogs ate something intended for cats.  The way Lily jumps and climbs, it's impossible to avoid!

Tried the Sojos last night, mixed with chopped up beef.  Bandit ate some of it, Lily wouldn't touch it (I think she's been licking the cats' plates clean.)  I'm not sure what I think of it, prepared as directed, the proportion of plant-based to meat seems awfully high.  Only 1/2 cup of meat to a whole cup of dry pre-mix and 1 1/2 cup water?  I was expecting the proportions to be more the reverse, if that.

I'll try either Dr. Harvey's or The Honest Kitchen when they have finished this small batch of Sojos.  I also have a turkey neck and giblets thawing in the fridge.  I'm going to break the neck into pieces, and see how they like it.  I am hoping to get them to eat at least some raw meaty bones, and necks seem like something they might be able to handle.
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Lola on December 29, 2017, 08:51:07 AM
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I'm not sure what I think of it, prepared as directed, the proportion of plant-based to meat seems awfully high.  Only 1/2 cup of meat to a whole cup of dry pre-mix and 1 1/2 cup water?  I was expecting the proportions to be more the reverse, if that.

I think the same of Honest Kitchen.  I only buy the Base one and add my own meat.  A cup of dry to a cup of meat... plus water.  Too much mix.  IMHO.  I only feed it to Lacy dog once every 2 or 3 days.  Two days in a row gives her gas. 

DeeDee can tell you exactly how much of a dog's diet should be fruits and/or veggies. 
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: DeeDee on December 29, 2017, 10:27:33 AM


DeeDee can tell you exactly how much of a dog's diet should be fruits and/or veggies. 

According to all the integrative Dr's and other raw feeding "specialists" that promote veg/fruit, they should get approximately 25-30% V&F of the whole meal, with fruits being 5-10% of that 25-30%. They digest puree better than whole fruits and veg pieces.

So a meal with F&V should be about 70-75% of the meat, bone, and organs. It's easy enough to use a kitchen scale to get these proportions. Just measure 5/8 to 3/4 an ounce of meat products to 1/4 to 3/8 ounce fruit and veg puree.

From what I've seen, all of the pre-mixes resemble formulations of "regular" foods like kibble instead of a raw diet so that they can claim "balanced and complete" by AAFCO standards. They might not have AAFCO seals, but they can say they follow the guidelines. So, yes. In my mind it's unbalanced to mix it the way they say it should be.

When I use the DR. Harvey's on the road, they get the kind with the meat already in it, and we feed only 1 of their 2 daily meals with it. But we're still not feeding it for long-term, so if it's unbalanced compared to the way we normally feed, it's not going to hurt them.

Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 29, 2017, 06:03:58 PM
According to all the integrative Dr's and other raw feeding "specialists" that promote veg/fruit, they should get approximately 25-30% V&F of the whole meal, with fruits being 5-10% of that 25-30%. They digest puree better than whole fruits and veg pieces.

So a meal with F&V should be about 70-75% of the meat, bone, and organs. It's easy enough to use a kitchen scale to get these proportions. Just measure 5/8 to 3/4 an ounce of meat products to 1/4 to 3/8 ounce fruit and veg puree.

From what I've seen, all of the pre-mixes resemble formulations of "regular" foods like kibble instead of a raw diet so that they can claim "balanced and complete" by AAFCO standards. They might not have AAFCO seals, but they can say they follow the guidelines. So, yes. In my mind it's unbalanced to mix it the way they say it should be.

Thanks for the information.  It kind of confirms what I was planning to do, which is adjust the proportions.  I'll have to experiment a little with the different bases to get it right, but there is no way I am going to feed anything that is 2/3 plant based to a dog.  I would do it now and then, I guess, but I'm hoping to use one or more of these base mixes as a regular part of their diet, and that's going to require some tweaking.  I had some beef my cats didn't want, and when I mixed that with the Sojos I had already prepared, increasing the amount of meat to more like what you have mentioned, the dogs liked it a lot better, or at least Bandit did.  I still think Lily is licking the cats' plates clean when my back is turned. 

Update:  With the extra meat added, Lily did eat some of it. 

Now that I think about it, I was so pleased with how my food processor worked at grinding up meat, I may just start making my own fruit and veg puree.  Wheeee!
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: DeeDee on December 29, 2017, 07:25:31 PM

Now that I think about it, I was so pleased with how my food processor worked at grinding up meat, I may just start making my own fruit and veg puree.  Wheeee!

You're welcome. If you're going to make your own, a rule I try to follow is at least 1 yellow, 1 orange/red, one green, and I use dried cranberries or frozen blueberries for their fruit since they hit that dark spectrum that's such a good antioxidant.

Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 02, 2018, 09:56:21 AM
Just mixed up some Dr. Harvey's, added the meat and oil, and am waiting for it to get to room temperature.  I will post more when the dogs have eaten, but I am a lot happier with the recommended proportions of this diet, and with the finer texture of the base mix. 

I have noticed some differences in the dogs since doing away with the kibble.  Bandit's digestive issues seem to be a thing of the past - no more runny poo, and I am thrilled with Lily.  She wasn't exactly scrawny on dry food, but her spine seemed a bit prominent, and her paws looked too pink (like many Chihuahuas, she lacks a thick coat), like she was licking them too much.  Her paws look better, and she's turning into a positively muscular little dog for her delicate build.  I'm even hoping her coat may thicken up, although I suspect most of its thinness is genetic.
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: DeeDee on January 02, 2018, 10:54:43 AM
You'll definitely notice some changes. We noticed all kinds of changes with Barkly once we got Vlad when Barkly was a year old. Vlad was weaned on raw, and it wasn't recommended that he be fed kibble because with the Black Russian breed, they hadn't been fed kibble for that long (at the time it had been only about 20 years when kibble became a possibility in Russia), and breeders had been seeing differences in the BRTs that were fed it--worse coats, shorter life-spans, food allergies, etc.

Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 02, 2018, 09:55:22 PM
Dr. Harvey's is definitely their favorite of the three base mixes I got - if I continue to order base mix, that will be the one I use.  I suspect that has something to do with the proportions they suggest, and I will adapt the Honest Kitchen and Sojos accordingly, and maybe add a little oil to those, too.  I don't want to waste them.  I am also thinking of spinning the Sojos through my food processor for a finer grind - I don't think they liked the bigger chunks of fruit and veg very much. 

On the bright side, I think I can safely say that my dogs are now raw-fed.  No kibble at all for a while, and they never seemed to miss it.  The only time they got canned was when they occasionally licked the cat's plates clean, and they've lost interest in Tylee's, as well.  When I put the food down tonight, they devoured it.  They have eaten it before, but tonight they were really excited about their meal. 

Next step will be giving them some chicken gizzards and small edible bones for their teeth.   

Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Lola on January 03, 2018, 10:13:14 AM
Thanks for sharing your experience concerning Dr. Harvey's!!  I just ordered some for Lacy dog. 
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 04, 2018, 04:43:42 PM
I offered Sojos again.  This time I pretty much ignored the proportions they suggest, and prepped enough mix to make one cup, then added three cups of prepped meat, so the meal was 25% fruit and veg and 75% meat.  Added a little salmon oil.  This was much more readily accepted than the weird proportions they suggest on the package.  I will try this same method next time I use Honest Kitchen. 

Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 06, 2018, 07:01:53 PM
It worked.  They will eat Honest Kitchen, too, and appear to like it.  The main thing seems to be to make sure that the prepared base mix is no more than about a quarter of the meal.  I mix it, measure it, and then add three parts meat to one part premix.   
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: DeeDee on January 06, 2018, 07:59:01 PM
It worked.  They will eat Honest Kitchen, too, and appear to like it.  The main thing seems to be to make sure that the prepared base mix is no more than about a quarter of the meal.  I mix it, measure it, and then add three parts meat to one part premix.   

That's GREAT! I think that most of the companies put so much of their premix (other than getting you to buy more) is because of AAFCO guidelines that they've all been trying to get. You're not supposed to have over a certain percentage of protein according to them I believe.
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Lola on January 06, 2018, 11:20:27 PM
Wish I had your brains, Catgirl.  My gut told me that Lacy was getting too many fruits and veggies, when feeding the Honest Kitchen.  I would add a little more meat once in a while.   Then I stressed about it, because I wasn't following their directions to the letter.  I didn't want to be one of those raw feeders that did it wrong.  *sigh*

At least I didn't feed it every day.  I bet many people do.  :(
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 07, 2018, 04:54:49 AM
Wish I had your brains, Catgirl.  My gut told me that Lacy was getting too many fruits and veggies, when feeding the Honest Kitchen.  I would add a little more meat once in a while.   Then I stressed about it, because I wasn't following their directions to the letter.  I didn't want to be one of those raw feeders that did it wrong.  *sigh*

At least I didn't feed it every day.  I bet many people do.  :(

I worried about not following the directions, too, for about 5 minutes.  Then I considered the fact that when I fed previous dogs a raw diet years ago, it was ALL Frankenprey, with no fruits and veggies at all, and thought about how I would make the food if I was doing my own fruit/veg puree and using the proportions DeeDee suggested (which I will probably do, once these base mixes are used up.) 

It seems like there are two schools of thought about whether dogs need fruit and veg at all.  When I get the dogs where I want them to be, they will probably receive some meals that include them, mixed with food I've prepared for the cats, and some that are strictly Frankenprey.  I definitely want the to be eating some bone, for their teeth.

I don't think brains have a lot to do with it, but I thank you for the kind words.  It's far more likely that I just don't have a problem with questioning "the experts" if their advice doesn't make sense to me.  That's something I think most of us here have in common, is it not?  ;)  It takes a bit of a defiant streak to venture into raw feeding at all, given the PFI's influence on how most vets are trained. 
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Middle Child on January 07, 2018, 08:01:31 AM
Love hearing about how well Bandit and Lily are doing on the raw diet.  Makes such a difference doesn't it? Are these premixes you guys are talking about?  Or prepared raw? 

Either way, I always advise feeding a variety of sources in rotation so there isn't any reason why you couldn't continue to feed all three brands, whatever they are.
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: DeeDee on January 07, 2018, 08:28:19 AM
Are these premixes you guys are talking about?  Or prepared raw? 



Yes, they're all premixes like Honest Kitchen that you just add meat to for them.
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: DeeDee on January 07, 2018, 08:32:23 AM


It seems like there are two schools of thought about whether dogs need fruit and veg at all. 


I'm of the BARF school of thought just because I've noticed that my dogs want to graze like cattle if they don't get the F&V mix. I don't think all dogs do that when they're prey or frankenprey, but mine do. Especially Vlad. So, I think something's missing for them and they're trying to correct it when they eat the grass.
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Lola on January 07, 2018, 09:45:27 AM

I'm of the BARF school of thought just because I've noticed that my dogs want to graze like cattle if they don't get the F&V mix. I don't think all dogs do that when they're prey or frankenprey, but mine do. Especially Vlad. So, I think something's missing for them and they're trying to correct it when they eat the grass.

When Lacy was fed just meat, bones, and organs... she would eat grass like there was no tomorrow.  AND drag her rear end quite a bit.  Once I started adding fruits and veggies... no more grazing or dragging.  I'm convinced dogs need fruits and veggies. 
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 09, 2018, 01:32:43 AM
Love hearing about how well Bandit and Lily are doing on the raw diet.  Makes such a difference doesn't it? Are these premixes you guys are talking about?  Or prepared raw? 

Either way, I always advise feeding a variety of sources in rotation so there isn't any reason why you couldn't continue to feed all three brands, whatever they are.

It is making a difference!

As Lola said, premixes.  I may continue with all three or, when I feel more confident, I may start making my own fruit and veg puree.  Ideally, I want them to have some BARF meals, either with premix or with my own puree, and some that are prey model raw.  If they will eat bones and can tolerate them, I want them to do it.  Crunching on edible bone is so good for keeping the teeth clean.  I remember that from my prior experience.     
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: DeeDee on January 09, 2018, 09:03:45 AM
It is making a difference!

If they will eat bones and can tolerate them, I want them to do it.  Crunching on edible bone is so good for keeping the teeth clean.  I remember that from my prior experience.     

That's so wonderful to hear when someone goes raw--that it's making a difference that you can see!

Since Vlad developed Addison's, I haven't been able to give them bones for their teeth. I doubt it, but if you can't get yours to chew bones, then get some Tropiclean Tooth Gel. It really works on my two:

http://tropiclean.com/product/fresh-breath-clean-teeth-gel-pets/
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Lola on January 09, 2018, 01:33:16 PM
Quote
I doubt it, but if you can't get yours to chew bones

Our Lacy won't chew bones.  Doesn't matter the width or length.  I think she was a sword swallower in a previous life.  I am stunned at the things she has swallowed whole.  Plus, VERY dangerous.  I give her Bully Sticks from this company only:  https://www.bestbullysticks.com

BUT I have to attach vice grips to the bully stick, so she can't swallow one whole. 

I bought turkey necks, from Hare Today, that were almost the size of my arm.  Okay, not that big... but they were HUGE.  Vice grips didn't do so well on those. 

My point.... good luck with yours! 
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Lola on January 09, 2018, 01:34:03 PM
I meant to ask... out of curiosity.... do you plan to feed your dogs fruits and veggies with every meal? 
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Pookie on January 09, 2018, 06:08:53 PM
Quote
It seems like there are two schools of thought about whether dogs need fruit and veg at all.

Yeah, I'm no expert but I've tended to lean towards they don't.  THAT SAID, though, it was because I wasn't sure if wolves (I consider dogs and wolves identical when it comes to nutritional needs) eat the stomach contents of their prey or not (I've seen articles that say they do, and some that say they don't).  Though now that I think about it, it wouldn't make sense for them to leave the contents . . .  Anyway, I'm totally open to it, and from what Dee and Lola have posted, it sounds like maybe they do.  Maybe, like cats, they get their "grains/fruits/veggies" pre-digested from their prey.  Wolves just have larger prey.  So now I'm rethinking my views and leaning towards they do, esp. if they're pureed (e.g. "pre-digested).

Bottom line:  do whatever works for your pet!   :)  :-*
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Lola on January 09, 2018, 06:16:29 PM
I thought the same as you, Pookie.  I originally started Lacy dog off with no fruits and veggies.  BUT she started eating a lot of grass.  I re-visted the fruits and vegetable theory, and changed my mind. 
However, my original belief is why I don't give her them every day.  Not exactly scientific, but... 
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 09, 2018, 08:42:08 PM
I meant to ask... out of curiosity.... do you plan to feed your dogs fruits and veggies with every meal?

Probably not.  I don't know how I would get them to eat them with a Frankenprey meal. 
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Pookie on January 09, 2018, 09:38:24 PM
Probably not.  I don't know how I would get them to eat them with a Frankenprey meal. 

As hors d'oeuvres?  On the side/as a side dish?  Or maybe as a "sauce?"   :D
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 10, 2018, 03:57:17 AM
As hors d'oeuvres?  On the side/as a side dish?  Or maybe as a "sauce?"   :D

You've given me a good idea.  I might be able to mix a puree with their liver and other organs for those meals, and serve that with the raw, meaty bone. 
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 14, 2018, 03:18:41 PM
That's so wonderful to hear when someone goes raw--that it's making a difference that you can see!

Since Vlad developed Addison's, I haven't been able to give them bones for their teeth. I doubt it, but if you can't get yours to chew bones, then get some Tropiclean Tooth Gel. It really works on my two:

http://tropiclean.com/product/fresh-breath-clean-teeth-gel-pets/

I ordered some of this yesterday.  I'm excited to see if it's as good as the reviews say!
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: DeeDee on January 14, 2018, 03:47:16 PM
I ordered some of this yesterday.  I'm excited to see if it's as good as the reviews say!

It really is. If there's any tartar or staining, use it every night until it disappears. People have had better results using it at night after there is no more food or treats, or water drinking. (They've also got a liquid for water bowls, but it's too expensive in my case. Vlad drinks, beard been in, no one drinks again.) People also say that brushing (in the morning after immediately waking) after a couple of weeks while it's still gummy works better to remove anything there.

I just use it every other night now for maintenance. It's not their favorite thing on earth, and every other night has been working for a long time now.
Title: Re: Fruits And Veggies For Dogs
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 27, 2018, 02:05:28 PM
It really is. If there's any tartar or staining, use it every night until it disappears. People have had better results using it at night after there is no more food or treats, or water drinking. (They've also got a liquid for water bowls, but it's too expensive in my case. Vlad drinks, beard been in, no one drinks again.) People also say that brushing (in the morning after immediately waking) after a couple of weeks while it's still gummy works better to remove anything there.

I just use it every other night now for maintenance. It's not their favorite thing on earth, and every other night has been working for a long time now.

It was out of stock when I ordered before, so I had to wait and try again.  It just arrived today, and I will let you know how it goes.