Author Topic: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?  (Read 29735 times)

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Offline Lola

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #135 on: August 23, 2018, 04:27:44 PM »
:(  I am sorry.  I sure was hoping this was going to be a good update.   Hug1
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #136 on: August 23, 2018, 05:31:17 PM »
 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #137 on: August 23, 2018, 05:39:34 PM »
I've started Jennie back on the EZcomplete.  She's lost weight this week and I need to get her balanced, it's either that or canned.  Since there was no improvement after taking her OFF the EZc, it follows that the chicken liver and egg yolk and egg shell in the EZc was not causing her any problems.

(edit) starting very slowly with the EZc return) I am still cooking her pork.

I am wondering more and more if the compounded antibiotic was dosed inadequately some how. Erythromycin is specific for this bacteria, and there was absolutely no improvement while she was on it.

If she still tests positive she'll be going on Tylosin.  If not, the next step is ultrasound, and I am also going to order the "poo pills" for her.

https://www.animalbiome.com/collections/microbiome/products/fecal-microbiota-transplant-pill


Offline Pookie

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #138 on: August 24, 2018, 12:54:35 PM »
When does she go in to be re-tested?  Or did she already and I missed it?
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #139 on: August 24, 2018, 01:05:34 PM »
I brought new samples in on Tuesday.  It takes a week.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #140 on: August 25, 2018, 08:28:42 AM »
OH HAPPY DAY!!!

Jennie's culture came back negative. The infection is gone.  In addition, Jennie had two small poop episodes yesterday (both after pee) and they both seemed to not be bloody though I wasn't sure and didn't trust my eyes,

 BUT since then she has peed twice (last night and this morning) with no pushing out bloody bits of stool afterward.

Vet had a long chat with me this morning about not feeding raw diets. She had a few horror stories to share regarding puppies, but I didn't listen to them very carefully. I told her I would continue to cook Jennie's for now, but the other two were going to remain on raw. She warned me Mazy cat is getting older and should be on a cooked diet.  I said I went to raw because of her issues. Vet said she had no problem with home prepared diets, she just thinks they should be cooked but "you're going to do what you want" and I said Yeah, I am.

She can add Jennie's campylobacter saga to her anti-raw repertoire now. funny2

I do like this vet just as much as the other, and I'm glad she is at least open to home prepared food.  But I just don't agree with her about the risk of raw feeding.

However I am going to give Jennie's system a good long  rest from bacteria exposure for now.  Ezc can be used with cooked as well as raw meats and Jennie is quite enjoying the cooked pork.

Mazy cat and Queen Eva will be so happy to have deep filled litter boxes again. Since I have to dump so often,I've only been putting a thin layer in the boxes.

Now, even if Jennie does have more icky poops, at least I know they are not contagious.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #141 on: August 25, 2018, 01:08:46 PM »
OH HAPPY DAY!!!

Jennie's culture came back negative. The infection is gone.  In addition, Jennie had two small poop episodes yesterday (both after pee) and they both seemed to not be bloody though I wasn't sure and didn't trust my eyes,

 BUT since then she has peed twice (last night and this morning) with no pushing out bloody bits of stool afterward.

YAY!  multistars multistars multistars multistars

 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed  The good news continues . . .
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #142 on: August 25, 2018, 02:21:32 PM »
Thanks Pookie.  I can tell she feels better, I noticed it last night.  Not that she was showing any signs of not feeling good, you know how subtle cats are.  But last night I really noticed a difference, and today it is even more noticeable.  Just an....air..about her that's different.

Just before lunch she had a pee and one of those small soft poops after, first poop in 25 hours, and I can't see any sign of blood in it at all.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #143 on: August 26, 2018, 07:28:39 AM »
She's back to little bloody stools with every pee.  :'(

So I'll stop the EZc again, get the poop pills and try the Alnutrin for balancing.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #144 on: August 27, 2018, 05:04:12 AM »
This morning Jennie had a normal formed poop! Normal size, normal texture!  Still bloody though.  But I have to believe the improvement is going forward. 

When I start the poo pills I may run another thread just for that along with updating this one if no one objects. It may help if someone is looking for info on just that.

Offline Lola

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #145 on: August 27, 2018, 01:38:49 PM »
There is no thread limit here.  ;)
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #146 on: September 01, 2018, 08:24:22 PM »
Jennie's progress remains like a yoyo. I have the poop pills but haven't started them yet, have been attempting to get guidance on their FB page, and the advice is all over the place and conflicting, so I'm taking it all in and just making it up as I go along. I was advised to stabilize her first, when I thought that was the whole point of this form of resetting the microbiome. I was advised to give her fiber to bulk up her stool, with psyllium.

Jennie can't tolerate SEB or psyllium.  The only fiber she can use is pumpkin but I am not convinced that is the way to go for her. Other suggestions were to give her prebiotics.  Keep her on a therapeutic dose of s.boulardii, but stop the regular probiotics a few days before starting the pills. Not necessary to balance the meals before starting the pills. Don't worry about the imbalanced meals for now.

So I've read through all of that and am choosing my own way.  1st. 

I stopped ALL probiotics a week ago, including the s.boulardii.  It was only making things worse. Since then she is having probably mushier stools than before, but less blood on them.  When I increased the s.boulardii to therapeutic dose the blood became much more.  Every time I tried to increase it the blood got worse, so I stopped the s.boulardii.

Since it is best to make only once change at a time, I waited a few days before beginning the new calcium supplement. I had stopped the egg shell calcium because it seemed to cause more irritation,  She's on calcium carbonate now.  After having her on the calcium carbonate for a few days (so now, just cooked pork and calcium carbonate) I started the Alnutrin.

For 3 meals a day she's now getting the cooked pork and calcium carbonate, and the supper meal is now the full dose of Alnutrin for that meal (I asked them how to calculate per meal).

She doens't like the Alnutrin much plus she is getting very tired of cooked pork. So, I give her a tiny bit of ziwi peak venison (canned food) into her cooked pork juices and Alnutrin to help her eat it.  She likes that.

I've had to start using forti flora to help her finish her meals because she is just so tired of cooked pork.

So starting yesterday I've started keep out a sliver or two of meat and giving it raw along with the cooked.

As I increase the Alnutrin meals, the next step will be to add ACV again I think.  That can be her prebiotic/fiber.

I've been told to "relax" and "don't worry" about the non-balanced meals but telling someone with an anxiety disorder to "relax" and don't worry" is like telling someone with depression to "snap out of it". I don't find those kind of comments useful even though I know they are well meaning.

Jennie will be back on balanced meals, and probably back to at least 50% raw, before I begin the poop pills.

Well if anyone can make sense of this garbled update I will be impressed.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #147 on: September 01, 2018, 10:37:06 PM »
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes

Maybe it's time for the ultrasound . . . ?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2018, 10:55:24 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #148 on: September 02, 2018, 08:35:48 AM »
Thanks Pookie.  Not yet, though I am not adverse to doing it eventually if needed.  I want to give her body time to heal.

  The vet indicated it would take a while though she didn't say how long. Her only directive was to not feed raw, ever. But her only reasoning is that "older cats can't handle it". This I know to not be true and Jennie will be raw fed again. 

The antibiotics were very strong and harsh, on top of everything already being messed up inside.

Right now I just want to get her back to a balanced diet, cooked, raw or mixed, I want her balanced.

I started the Alnutrin on her breakfast meal today, so if that goes well for the next few days she will be 2/3 of the way to full balance.

Wait..not quite.  I haven't started adding the liver in again yet. Once she is fully transitioned to Alnutrin, then I wil start adding the liver.

Edit:  While I was typing all that Jennie went down and had a small perfectly formed poop with no discernible blood.  It was firm on the outside which is also progress, still a bit mushy inside when squished.

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #149 on: September 03, 2018, 07:48:34 AM »
Last night Jennie staged a revolt.  She flat out refused to eat any more cooked pork.  No matter what I put on it, she said no.  I even tried pureeing it in the blender.  She tried it, she really tried, but the answer was still NO.

So Jennie is back on full raw as of this morning.  Still pork only, but I had hoped to start adding in a little beef liver soon. I better wait and see how she does on full raw. She is still having those frequent small poops (the irritation causes them, makes her feel like she has to go all the time) but I am seeing much less blood. Two out of three in a day now are little or no blood.

I had started adding pieces of raw to the cooked 2 days ago, but going full raw is kind of sudden.  Maybe I will try to cook her bedtime meal. On the other hand I might just see how she does. She is 2/3 Alnutrin now. I am still using a little of the canned Ziwi Peak venison to enhance the Alnutrin. The Alnutrin is calculated by the weight of the plain muscle meat.

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