Author Topic: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding  (Read 11791 times)

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Offline Middle Child

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AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« on: July 18, 2012, 12:17:20 PM »
http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/very-bad-news-for-raw-feeders.html



This is horrible.

Quote
the AVMA Council on Public Health and Regulatory Veterinary Medicine will vote to create a policy to "discourage the feeding to cats and dogs of any animal source protein that has not first been subjected to a process to eliminate pathogens because of the risk of illness to cats and dogs as well as humans."

I agree with Susan Thixton's assessment of the reasons behind this. She has included ways to contact this board, to support raw feeding and let them know why this should not happen.

Offline Shadow

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2012, 12:24:10 PM »
Was just going to post this....Spread the word people!!
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline Middle Child

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2012, 01:25:41 PM »
I have been, but have met with some odd reactions from raw feeders. The response has been kind of "so what?" Having just barely tip toed into the raw feeding world, my reaction was much more violent.

My concerns:

Other people like me, so cautious about it, someone teetering on the fence might just teeter off all together with an "official" stance. Most people still believe in things like the AVMA and AFFCO and all that. They trust them. If they read somewhere that the AVMA has an official policy against feed a raw diet, many may go no further than that

It will change attitudes. It will allow vets who speak out against raw diet to gain more leverage with their clients who may want to feed raw. That's a lot of potential raw feeders out there who will be turned away from ever trying it. Yes, some vets already speak against it. But now they will have "official back up"

It may change the availability of commercial raw products. Some of us rely heavily on them, and may always do so.

It's another way for PFI to push their worst foods.

It's a backwards step in the progress of pet nutrition.

I guess, instead of worrying, I should feel reassured by these blase attitudes I am seeing in response to this?

Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2012, 09:36:07 AM »
 flamingangry flamingangry flamingangry

Typed this so fast, don't know if it will even be approved:
Quote
Wow, so many educated "veterinarians" and they somehow got through high school dodging Biology class? 

I'm still waiting for these corrupt "associations" to furnish proof that dogs and cats are not CARNIVORES. 

They have spent all these years (since Colgate Palmolive took over Science Diet and realised the success of Dentists endorsing toothpaste) basically convincing owners of companion CARNIVORES that these creatures are designed by nature similar to cows.



PLEASE let these people know that there is NO proof -- NONE -- that a cat & dog is not a CARNIVOROUS mammal. How can they argue with facts? 

Look at their teeth -- their jaws only move up & down. Look into a cat's mouth.  NO FLAT MOLARS.  They can't grind anything!



Not only Mal-practice, but ANIMAL ABUSE.  HOW can people POSSIBLY not only STUDY, but EXAMINE these species and NOT SEE THIS WITH THE NAKED EYE?! 



Can't dispute facts.

Where are Consumer Fraud Attorneys when we need them. Talk about having NO BURDEN OF PROOF!!!!!!!!

Offline Lola

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« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 01:08:58 PM by Lola »
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Offline Pookie

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2012, 11:27:07 AM »
Here's my take:

1.  I think some raw feeders are being blase about this because they don't feed commercial raw -- instead they go to Whole Foods or the butcher and feed raw from sources like those.  So if this vote goes through, and the worst-case scenario of banning commercial happens (and I wouldn't put it past them to try), to MC's point, those who are just learning about raw, or just aren't comfortable with a prey model method of feeding, are the ones who are  censored.  But it won't really impact the folks who don't use commercial raw.

2. Gee, the veterinary profession and PFI must really be taking a hit on their bottom line for this to be coming to a vote.  <<evil grin>>  They have no one to blame but themselves, of course.  It seems that enough pet parents have educated themselves to the point that it's now hurting vets (no need for flea/tick meds, allergy shots, medications, or "prescription" foods if the pet is healthy) and pet food companies. 

3.  Check out their response to the feedback they've been getting.  I love the comments that are posted, too.  http://atwork.avma.org/2012/07/18/the-facts-on-avmas-proposed-policy-on-raw-pet-food-diets/
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
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Offline Pookie

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2012, 11:28:22 AM »
One of my personal favorites, from the comments to the link I posted above.  I think she nailed it:

Kelea Nevis July 19th, 2012 at 02:48 | #38 Reply | Quote When did what I feed my “kids” become anyone else’s choice but my own. If you are so concerned about my “kids” health then please open a trust fund for their medical expenses they will most certainly incur from eating commercially processed/manufactured kibble. My “kids” have been eating raw for going on four years now and the cost savings to me has been amazing. Oh, perhaps that’s the real reason for this concern. My four canine kids no longer need flea/tick control, vaccinations, worming/heart meds, they aren’t sick and don’t need veterinary care. And all this since eating RAW. Prior to this I was spending money on a regular basis on the poisons that were making them ill. Hmmm, perhaps the truth is exposed in these words. I’m already growing my own food, guess I’ll have to start growing theirs too. And, before you continue, please address all the recent recalls, illnesses and deaths from the commercial food/treats on the market today and then document the same (not likely to be found) resulting illnesses and deaths from RAW (again, not likely to be found!). Very truly, Kelea Nevis, Furkid Mom.
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
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Offline Pookie

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2012, 11:37:40 AM »
Sorry, but I have to post this because it sounds like CC.  CC, you have a twin!   funny2:

4 dog Mom July 19th, 2012 at 00:54 | #50 Reply | Quote I’ve been a raw feeder for over 15 years. Didn’t you clowns learn dogs are carnivores in vet school? Feeding kibble to my dogs would be like feeding McDonalds to my children. Not going to happen. Who cares what you recommend? Most of the comments here are written by people who actually have brains in their heads and steer clear of your guidelines, recommendations and policies.
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
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Offline Pookie

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2012, 11:39:23 AM »
Carp, I KNEW I had one more point:

Since WHEN is "public health" the AVMA's responsibility?  I thought that fell to the Department of Health and the Center for Disease Control?!?!   >:(
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
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Offline CarnivorousCritter

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2012, 12:22:50 PM »
Ironic, Pookie 'cause my own 4 dogs suffered because we used to trust such cretins...   the older ones prior to them, they wouldn't eat kibble and didn't suffer what the last 4 went through.  

How many dogs  suffer "bloody intestinal growths" (among all the other issues) because of this corrupt me$$?  
They all regualte themselves ... they can just make stuff up as they go along.   Plus, people will believe anything the Mediots on TV say.  You can bet they'll be "reporting" this "announcement and there will be an advertising blitz....

Offline Lola

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2012, 01:05:49 PM »
PF is getting closer to getting a flipping the bird smiley...
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Offline Lola

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2012, 01:07:24 PM »
Where to start with this pile of  BSbaloney

Quote
We’ve been seeing a lot of misinformation about the proposed AVMA policy on raw or undercooked animal-source protein diets for pets that will be discussed and voted on at the AVMA House of Delegates (HOD) meeting in San Diego in August, so we feel the need to clear things up.

First of all, this proposed policy would be an AVMA policy if approved, not state or federal law. The AVMA cannot, and will not, regulate what pet owners choose to feed their pets. If you already feed raw food to your pet, that’s your choice. This proposed policy is about mitigating public health risks, not about restricting or banning any products. Our policies are intended to present the scientific facts, which in this case are: 1) Scientific studies have shown that raw and undercooked protein can be sources of infection with Salmonella, Campylobacter, Clostridium, E. coli, Listeria monocytogenes, and enterotoxigenic Staphylococcus aureus. These infections can sicken pets and pet owners alike, and can be life-threatening; 2) unless a raw protein product has been subjected to a process that eliminates pathogens that can make pets and people ill, it poses a significant public health risk to both pets and pet owners.

Our policies are based on a thorough review of the scientific literature and are drafted by veterinarians with expertise in relevant fields (in this case, public health). If you’d like to read the proposed policy for yourself, here’s the exact document that will be considered by the HOD.

http://atwork.avma.org/2012/07/18/the-facts-on-avmas-proposed-policy-on-raw-pet-food-diets/
Thanks for the link, Pookie.
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Offline Lola

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2012, 01:13:12 PM »
KJ - July 19th

Quote
The truly sad thing is that no matter how many factual and logical replies we leave on this board in support of a raw diet, it’s ‘just words’ and means very little to the AVMA compared to the huge amounts of $$$$ the pet food companies invest in vet schools. Vet school graduates (ie AVMA members) go out into the world believing that Hills and Science Diet are THE holy grail of pet nutrition, and so the cycle continues….

http://atwork.avma.org/2012/07/18/the-facts-on-avmas-proposed-policy-on-raw-pet-food-diets/#comments
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Offline Pookie

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2012, 02:41:39 PM »
Ironic, Pookie 'cause my own 4 dogs suffered because we used to trust such cretins...   the older ones prior to them, they wouldn't eat kibble and didn't suffer what the last 4 went through.   
I hear ya, CC.  I trusted my vet(s), too, and learned the hard way just how little they know about nutrition.  grouphug

PF is getting closer to getting a flipping the bird smiley...

LOL -- I was actually thinking about that this morning!  Maybe we DO need one!   Bumpurr1
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 02:45:28 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Growlies

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Re: AVMA to take a stand against raw feeding
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2012, 04:26:13 PM »
I saw this great response to Delta Society when they did this.

I posted it to reddit.


Here's a great letter written last year to the Delta Society about the "dangers" of raw feeding. The AVMA has NO business telling us what we can/can't feed our animals.

"Dear Delta Society,

While checking http://www.google.com/ to investigate your claims of raw protein causing a significant shed of pathogens in the dog's stool, I found the largest amount of information on an internet search shows that dry dog food is the biggest offender of carrying salmonella contamination:

http://www.webmd.com/news/20080915/salmonella-risk-prompts-pet-food-recall

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/diet-fitness/digestive-disorders/articles/2008/11/06/salmonella-outbreak-tied-to-dry-dog-food-continues.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19076207/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356203,00.html

http://pet-nutrition.suite101.com/article.cfm/salmonella_pet_food_recall_expanded

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/15/AR2008051502363.html

http://www.emaxhealth.com/1/117/24691.html

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/dog-food-recalled-for-possible-salmonella-problem

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/articles/2008/05/15/salmonella-outbreak-linked-to-dry-dog-food.html?PageNr=2

One expert thinks contamination of pet food is likely to become more commonplace.

"There have been problems with pet foods before," said Dr. Pascal James Imperato, chairman of the department of preventive medicine 

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/articles/2008/05/15/salmonella-outbreak-linked-to-dry-dog-food.html?PageNr=1

and community health at the State University of New York Downstate Medical

Center in New York City. "If the food had any animal product in it, there could have been contamination, or if it was being processed in a plant where they were also processing animal product, then contamination can easily occur," he said. "There is greater industrialization of the production of food products, both for humans and animals, and these are complex processing systems. Therefore, there is greater opportunity for contamination," Imperato said. "We are likely to see many more of these problems."

Secondly, a large percentage of all dogs carry salmonella, regardless of diet. This has been known for some time:

http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_fsheet.php?product_id=223

Animal-to-Human -- Salmonella can be acquired directly from pets (e.g. cats and dogs), reptiles, and birds. The feces of pets, especially those with diarrhea, contain Salmonella and humans can become infected if they do not wash their hands after contact with pets or pet feces.15

http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_fsheet.php?product_id=223#15 

The pets may suffer Salmonellosis as a reverse zoonosis, with infection transmitted from human-to-pet and subsequently back to other humans. Salmonella can also be found in healthy dogs and cats at rates of up to 36 percent and 18 percent, respectively.52

http://fsrio.nal.usda.gov/document_fsheet.php?product_id=223#52

http://www.bravorawdiet.com/recallinfo.html#merck

Here's what the Merck Veterinary Manual says about Salmonella in pets:

"Many dogs and cats are asymptomatic carriers of Salmonellae. Clinical disease is uncommon, but when it is seen, it is often associated with hospitalization, another infection or debilitating condition in adults, or exposure to large numbers of the bacteria in puppies and kittens." 2

To translate: Many dogs and cats carry Salmonella in their systems (as evidenced by the presence of Salmonella in their feces), but they rarely become ill. It is just a natural part of what lives in their GI systems. When illness does occur it is usually associated with an already ill animal who is already immune-compromised. Illness may also occur when young animals
are exposed to very high numbers of the bacteria. This might happen if a puppy finds and licks the inside of an outdoor garbage can that has never been washed and is teeming with bacteria.

Research indicates that approximately 36 percent of healthy dogs and 17 percent of healthy cats carry Salmonella in their digestive tract.3 The American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) agrees with these numbers.4 It is interesting to note that these numbers are based on kibble-fed dogs-which means that Salmonella is a natural part of life for our pets regardless of what they are eating.

The resistance to illness in dogs from Salmonella is apparent in a study of raw-fed dogs in Canada. In that study 16 dogs were deliberately fed commercial raw diets contaminated with Salmonella. None of those 16 dogs became ill. Additionally, only 7 of those 16 dogs shed Salmonella in their feces.5 While it was not further studied, one might speculate that the 9
dogs who ate Salmonella-contaminated food but did not shed it in their feces effectively neutralized the bacteria.

Even the FDA, in the FDA Consumer magazine, acknowledges that healthy pets rarely become ill from Salmonella contamination.6

2. http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfle=htm%2Fbc%2F20900.htm

3. Hand, M.S., Thatcher, C.D., Remillard, R.L., and Roudebush, P. (2000)
Small Animal Clinical Nutrition. Mark Morris Institute. Pg. 36-42,188.

4. http://www.avma.org/reference/zoonosis/znsalmonellosis.asp

5. Finley, R., et al. (2007) The Risk of Salmonellae Shedding by Dogs Fed
Salmonella-contaminated Commercial Raw Food Diets. Can Vet J. Vol 48 #1. Pg. 69-75.

6. http://www.fda.gov/FDAC/departs/2000/500_upd.html#pigs

It is also interesting to note that humans can transmit salmonella to dogs:

http://www.vetmed.wisc.edu/pbs/zoonoses/GIk9fel/salmonella.html

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