Author Topic: Ground Rabbit - Carcass, Fur... The Whole Shebang!  (Read 2675 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lola

  • Global Moderator
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 11790
  • Country: us
  • Spay or Neuter
Ground Rabbit - Carcass, Fur... The Whole Shebang!
« on: October 24, 2014, 09:51:59 AM »
Is there a reason one would want to feed the ENTIRE rabbit? 

The one thing that comes to my mind... the fur.  Doesn't seem like a good idea. 
Everything you NEED to know about caring for your feline. www.catinfo.org

Offline DeeDee

  • P-F's Twitter-er
  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 6013
  • Country: us
  • Barkly & Vlad
Re: Ground Rabbit - Carcass, Fur... The Whole Shebang!
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2014, 11:02:01 AM »
Quote
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/raw-meat-and-bone-diets-for-dogs-its-enough-to-make-you-barf/

The internets explain that you can make the tradeoff between the risk of intestinal perforation from eating bones and the risk of peridontal disease from not eating bones by feeding your dog whole animals. That way the fur and feathers insulate the bones in the gut. I’ve never investigated this theory further because I don’t have whole animals to feed my dogs so I don’t have to think about it. (Though I know someone who raises rabbits to feed her dogs, which could make sense for me when I lose my job and money isn’t good any more because rabbits can be raised on various cheap things findable in a city. I’m not there yet and I’m not sure I ever will be.)

So buffering the bone fragments is probably the reason no matter what animal you're feeding. I'd check for fleas first though. And I'd remove the intestines for sure just because of worms. I'd be less iffy about it if it were stuffed into a large Ziploc bag and frozen for 2 or 3 months.

I've also read that cats have a harder time with the bones of rabbits, so it needs to be ground for them. But then others promote just feeding sectioned off parts in whole.

I've read in more than one place though that raw rabbit is low in taurine and cats might need supplements:

Quote
http://felineinstincts.com/ordernowtaurinedeficiencyinrabbit/

Although it appeared that the raw rabbit diet was significantly beneficial for the stool quality and appearance of health in the felines, the sudden and rapidly fatal illness of one of the felines that were fed the raw rabbit diet for 10 months was chilling and unexpected. The affected feline was diagnosed with dilated cardiomyopathy due to a severe Taurine deficiency. Moreover, 70% of the remaining raw rabbit diet fed felines, which appeared outwardly healthy, also had heart muscle changes compatible with Taurine deficiency and could have developed heart failure if continued on our raw rabbit diet. For the remaining three months of the study, the raw rabbit diet was supplemented with Taurine and Taurine levels returned to normal.

So I'd be careful about feeding rabbit to cats very often.

"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline FurMonster Mom

  • Charter Member
  • Gabster
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 713
  • Country: us
Re: Ground Rabbit - Carcass, Fur... The Whole Shebang!
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 11:51:32 AM »
I've not ventured into the realm of whole prey, but I do agree with checking for parasites and leaving out the intestines for the same reason.

I prefer to feed whole parts and let the cat decide for themselves what they can handle. I do this with the bone-in chicken that I feed.  When it comes to the thigh wing drumette bones, there is always a bit from the center that's been left, though it's been thoroughly scraped clean of meat and the ends have been chomped up.  There is a very obvious dental benefit to even scraping the meat off the bones.  Also, the ligaments on the whole pieces kind of act like dental floss.  lol.

As for the fur (or feathers), I've seen it postulated that they are the "fiber" in a diet that contains no plant fibers, and that it is beneficial for preventing hairballs.  I dunno... seems odd to me that if a cat can't digest their own fur, why would the addition of prey fur help the situation?... not sure how that works.   biddygif

As for the low-taurine issue in rabbit, I've seen that before as well.  Yet, it's odd that many feral/wild cats do choose rabbit as their primary prey and thrive on it. I think "primary" is the operative word; primary does not mean only.  I'm sure that they are still eating other small prey on the days that they can't pin down a rabbit.  As always, variety is the key.  And if you can't get much variety, then by all means supplement, either with some extra heart meat or with vitamins.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 02:08:04 PM by FurMonster Mom »
meow meow meow meow meow meow? -woof!
Translation: "I can has my raw food? -please!"

Offline Shadow

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1406
  • Country: ca
  • Just say no to Kibble Krack
Re: Ground Rabbit - Carcass, Fur... The Whole Shebang!
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 02:58:02 PM »
Touching on the subject of Rabbit. How much Taurine would I supplement to a meal? I have Taurine capsules, and am going to buy the carnivora whole preground Rabbit.
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline Lola

  • Global Moderator
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 11790
  • Country: us
  • Spay or Neuter
Re: Ground Rabbit - Carcass, Fur... The Whole Shebang!
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 05:51:47 PM »
This is what I was referring to:  https://www.hare-today.com/product_info.php?products_id=123 
I should have included the link, in my first post. 
Furry meat just sounds a bit gross to me.   Silly7
Everything you NEED to know about caring for your feline. www.catinfo.org

Offline FurMonster Mom

  • Charter Member
  • Gabster
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 713
  • Country: us
Re: Ground Rabbit - Carcass, Fur... The Whole Shebang!
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2014, 04:02:59 PM »
Touching on the subject of Rabbit. How much Taurine would I supplement to a meal? I have Taurine capsules, and am going to buy the carnivora whole preground Rabbit.

I can't really definitively answer this because I'm of the "add more heart meat" crowd. 
However, I've seen reference from someone who mixes their own suppliments.  They use 50 NOW 1,000mg Taurine capsules per 50 lbs of meat (so, 1 capsule per lb).
Keep in mind, that is for a meat only mix.... but since we're talking taurine, that shouldn't make a big difference (if we were talking calcium/magnesium/phos, different story). 
Also, as we've discussed before, taurine is water soluble, so any excess will simply pass through the system.  ;)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 04:06:23 PM by FurMonster Mom »
meow meow meow meow meow meow? -woof!
Translation: "I can has my raw food? -please!"

Offline Amber

  • Charter Member
  • Chatter Bug
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 417
  • Country: us
Re: Ground Rabbit - Carcass, Fur... The Whole Shebang!
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2014, 06:26:41 PM »
They take out the intestines and stomach for that grind. I haven't gotten brave enough to try it. Partly because amber refuses to eat whole mice and I attribute that to the fur, and partly because I am slightly squicked out by the idea. I add taurine to all grinds regardless of meat type.

Offline Shadow

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1406
  • Country: ca
  • Just say no to Kibble Krack
Re: Ground Rabbit - Carcass, Fur... The Whole Shebang!
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2014, 01:04:01 AM »
Good to know about the Taurine. Im pretty sure there is heart included in the Rabbit, but not sure how much? I guess I could add heart, but all I have seen in the store is beef heart. I do have the Taurine capsules, so would like to use those up first I guess.
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline Shadow

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1406
  • Country: ca
  • Just say no to Kibble Krack
Re: Ground Rabbit - Carcass, Fur... The Whole Shebang!
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2014, 04:53:14 PM »
Just got my whole Rabbit. now it says on the website under the FAQ section Do I need to add Organs to this meal like Beef offal? the reply was this "
Generally you do not since Whole animal diets supply organ tissues in a naturally correct ratio. But if organs are nature's best form of supplements so adding a small amount three times a week can be very beneficial! If your dog or cat needs extra iron and copper due to anemia, or if your dog requires a more nutrient dense diet during lactation or throughout a period of convalescence, additional organ meats can be very useful or even necessary."

any thoughts on this?
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Offline FurMonster Mom

  • Charter Member
  • Gabster
  • Join Date: Jul 2011
  • Posts: 713
  • Country: us
Re: Ground Rabbit - Carcass, Fur... The Whole Shebang!
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2014, 08:42:46 PM »
In other words, for a normal, healthy animal, they are saying there *should* be no need.
But if you have an animal with special needs, extra organs might be a good thing.

Personally, I'd say watch how your animals react to the diet... if they are constipated too much, toss in a little extra organ, if their coats are still a little dry or they are still hacking up hairballs, add in a little egg yolk... stuff like that.   ;)
meow meow meow meow meow meow? -woof!
Translation: "I can has my raw food? -please!"

Offline Shadow

  • Charter Member
  • Motor Mouth
  • Join Date: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 1406
  • Country: ca
  • Just say no to Kibble Krack
Re: Ground Rabbit - Carcass, Fur... The Whole Shebang!
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2014, 12:00:52 AM »
 thumbsup1 thanks FMM :)
"Education is the key" to make informed decisions about the health of our pets

Tags: