Author Topic: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.  (Read 5409 times)

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Offline Amber

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I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« on: November 30, 2011, 07:26:57 PM »
I don't know what to do here and am on the verge of tears. We have tried everything with amber since she was a kitten from putting tinfoil up on the walls and clipping her claws to those spray deterrents. She started scratching on doorframes and is now tearing up the paneling on the walls. Owner of the house says I now have three options. I can cage her when we aren't watching her, which is most of the day and night, I can declaw her, or I can get rid of her. I am not currently in a position where I can move, and even if I were, I know from experience with a friend of mine that none of the places you can rent from around here allow a cat that still has its claws even with a generous deposit. I am at a loss here. I love my baby and don't want to give her up to someone who isn't going to take care of her the way I do, but it isn't right for me to mutilate her so that she can stay with me.

Offline Macy

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, 07:49:52 PM »
Amber here is something you can try, and it worked with Macy, who literally tore the side of a couch wide open.  I went to the local pet store and bought one of those cardboard scratchers that inclines or lays on the floor.  The key is to get a high quality catnip and make sure that it covers the scratcher completely. Now I am not saying that your kitty will completely stop scratching other tings at first, but Macy rarely scratches furniture anymore.  You could also try a piece of a tree with bark still on it or a cat tree, so they have a place to climb.  Another option that I believe petco sells are caps you can place on their claws, although I have heard mixed reviews on those.

Offline The Kittens

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, 08:09:55 PM »
The way we train show kittens, is first you have to get a spray water bottle. Then you have to decide on the word or words you want to use, for each situation, and you have to be consistant each time, with the word or words, you cannot vary at all, it just confuses them.

Whatever they are doing, that they are not supposed to be doing, and for example, the scratching,
I say "no scratching, that is baddy boy stuff", in a stern and elevated tone, but not yelling, they they get squirted with the water bottle. It doesn't take long, for it to sink in, altho, it does not happen overnight, and you have to be consistant and diligent about it.

When they started climbing the screen door, I said "no climbing screens, that is baddy boy stuff" and I squirted.
After a few days, all I had to say, was the words, they got down, they no longer climb the screen.  

Mine learned the words "baddy boy stuff" when they were little tykes, and knows, it ain't good, and a squirt will follow. So you have to adjust the words, to the situation. Mine also learned what "no" means. So I just expanded, on words, they already knew, and fit the words, to the situation.

When they started to bite, I said "no biting, that is baddy boy stuff".

When they started to chew on plastic, I said "no chewing on plastic, that is baddy boy stuff"

Get the picture?  For Amber, you would say baddy girl stuff.

The kittens are also taught to use a scratching post, as in the shows, they have to go up the pole. This also takes time, and it does not happen overnight, you just have to be patient and consistant.

I got the big scratching post, it prob stands 4 feet, don't bother with the little ones, they just knock them down.
Rub cat nip up and down the post, you want the one with the sisel rope, don't get the rug covered one, it just confuses them, to similiar to furniture.  Then take her paws, and simulate, scratching, be gentle.  Then take a treaty, and make her follow it up the scratching post, when she stretches up, give her the treat, and only then.

Praise her and praise her, when she streches up and scratches the post.  Ours then graduate, to we only have to tap the scratching post, with a wand toy, and up they go. By the time they hit the show ring, at 4 months old, the judge sets them on the table, up the pole they go. Thats how we train show kittens.

Hope this helps, others will have good ideas too. But, if all else fails, and rather than risking have to give her up, then declaw her. Go to a cat show in your area, and watch the classes, watch the kitties go up the pole, then talk to the people or even, ask the judge, after the class is over. They are very willing to help. If you want to PM me what city you are in, will tell you when the next show in your area is.  :-* christmas4 cat4 TexasFlag bumpgif Christmas13        

Offline Mo

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2011, 08:57:01 PM »
One thing you could try is using "Soft Claws" like these: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4033287

It would probably be cheapest to get the Holiday ones (red and green) - at least after Christmas, Petsmart tends to have them for 50-75% off.  They may have them 25% or so by now.

Offline Lola

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2011, 09:14:01 PM »
One of our cats came to us wearing Soft Claws.  They do work.  They grow out with the nails. 
Our one male had a thing for wood also.  Door frames were his favorite.  My guess ...the wood is "softer" around the doors...easier to claw.  Anyway, we were able to direct his interest to sisal rope on every post of every cat tree in the house... and those cardboard scratchers.  He has totally stopped.
Goooooood luck to you!!!
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Offline Amber

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2011, 10:15:25 PM »
The problem with using a squirtbottle is that she knows she is not supposed to do it, and therefore does not do it in front of us. She waits until we are asleep or not around. She has a good cat tree, one I ordered online that she climbs on top of to look out the window. It is sturdy, and tall enough that she has to climb it to get to the top. I use catnip on that, but I will try the cardboard thing. We tried the soft paws when she was a kitten. She chewed them off. I am going to give it another shot, but...

I will try everything possible, I have already tried as much as I can think of. His patience is obviously very thin and is going to wear completely out soon.

I may have a third solution. It is not one I like but I find it more acceptable than mutilating her. I could put her outside during the day if nobody is home and lock her in my room at night. Having her outside is dangerous, but it may be better than the alternative.

Offline FurMonster Mom

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2011, 03:45:59 AM »
My first kitty, Angel Claire, used to tear up the cedar siding on the house.  Now, my Dad is extremely particular about keeping his stuff neat (he would go so far as to pick the fleas off his own cat, by hand  *eww*).  Anyway, Claire's scratching was really testing the limits of his patience.... so I MADE her a "post" with all her favorite things on it..... raw wood, and commercial style berber carpet, strings, and cubby holes.

The raw wood post has been a hit with all my kitties.
Unfortunately, it got.... carved.... to a point that I had to finally toss the thing (after 15 years!).

I need to make a new one. My furniture is definitely suffering.

I understand about stubborn cats.  Loki and Pippin are both very stubborn.
It's like Bump says.... you have to be persistent and consistent.
Deter with the water
Follow with encouragement; take them to the post/cardboard scratcher, place their paws on it, encourage scratching.... (catnip helps)
Don't let them walk away from the post/scratcher until they DO scratch. (this is where YOUR persistence needs to outweigh their stubbornness)
Reward with treats or luvs or whatever reward works best.
When you hear them using the post/scratcher without your intervention, drop what you are doing and reward them.

Also, we do keep the animals in the room with us at night.
First, because they will play with my plants otherwise (even with booby-trap tape)
Second, we have all their crates in the room as well... if anything were to happen in the middle of the night, where it would be necessary to evacuate the house....  Much easier to collect everyone if we are all in the same room.
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2011, 08:01:04 AM »
She needs more choices for scratching.  She doesn't "know she isn't supposed to do it", because scratching is a normal part of being a cat.  What she knows is that you don't like it when she does it.

Cover the door frames and any other areas that belong to the apartment with something to protect them, while she learns to use other scratchers.  You could try cardboard with double sided sticky tape on the cardboard.  You could try the ssscat product to keep her away from areas where you don't want her to scratch. You could try laying down those carpet protector mats with the pointy side up, in front of areas where you don't want her to scratch, so she can't get to them.

Give her many choices, my cats really love the s-curve type scratchers, both cardboard and carpet covered ones. Assure your landlord that you will repair or pay for the damage already done, and will keep her from doing any more. Upright sisal is popular too.

Print out the information in my link and give it to your landlord so he understands what declawing actually is.  Too many people think of it as a simple "removal of the claws".  Many, once they find out that it is actually amputation, change their mind about this mutilation. Declawing is illegal in more than 26 countries around the world, including all of Europe, because it is considered cruel and inhumane.

Myself, I would euthanize a cat before I would allow her to be declawed.  I don't see how putting her outside is an answer, especially if she is an indoor only cat, unless you build a cat safe enclosure, and provide adequate shelter with heat.

I am sorry you are faced with this.

Offline Pookie

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2011, 08:22:04 AM »
Some really good suggestions here, and I'm not sure I can add to them, but I think the following would be a huge help:

- Cover the areas she's scratching with cardboard or something else.  I have double-sided tape along the edge of my kitchen counters to keep Pookie off.  I don't know it that would work for you (it may damage the paint later when you remove the tape), but another option might be to use the wide mailing tape, sticky side up, and tape it along the door frames, etc.  They reeeallly don't like the feel of that on their feet.  There are also products like that, that maybe won't damage the wood:  http://www.cherrybrook.com/index.cfm/a/catalog.prodShow/vid/361318/vname/Sticky_Paws

-  Sissal or tree bark.  Pookie LOVES sissal and I have it on all of his posts and on his condo so he won't think it's ok to scratch carpet.  You can buy it at a hardware store -- it's not expensive--and wrap it on the posts you have.

- Lots of repetition and encouragement.  When Pookie and his sister were kittens, whenever they'd scratch something I didn't want, I'd make a harsh sound, pick them up and put them in front of a post, then take their front paws and very lightly drag them over the post.  I'd also scratch the post myself.  Almost always, they'd start scratching the post and I'd praise them over and over "good boy, what a good boy" etc.  Even today, when Pookie uses his post, I praise him.  He rarely if ever scratches what he shouldn't.

- You can try the Soft Paws again.  I've never used them, though.  Is there a glue or something that is used to keep them on the nails?

I'm also not a fan of putting her outside, even in an enclosure.  There are too many risks in my mind.  How about a large dog crate or something that you could put her in during the day?

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this.   grouphug grouphug grouphug
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Offline Pookie

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2011, 08:55:21 AM »
Some other thoughts:

Cover the area with cardboard, THEN put double-sided tape on the cardboard.  Downside is she may then learn to not scratch any cardboard, so it may not be a good idea if you want to use cardboard scratchers.

You said she only does it when you're not home.  How about a motion-sensing animal repeller in that area?  Something that makes a loud noise, squirts water or flashes lights when she gets near the door frame.  On the other hand, it may scare the other cats, too, but I'm just brainstorming here.

I know scratching is normal, but given the amount of damage I wonder if there's something else going on.  Here's a link to a Certified Animal Behavior Consultant's website, which has a link to "Find Qualified Cat Help."  http://www.catbehaviorassociates.com/#  Maybe there's someone in your area who could help?  [On a side note, I've read a couple of her books.  Good tips, but she really needs to learn more about feline nutrition.]  Or, and I hate to suggest this, maybe she needs to be medicated to calm her down a little?  Believe me, I hate the idea of giving drugs, but it may be something to think about.   :(

Are the areas where she's scratching near windows, by any chance?  If so, maybe she sees a cat outside and it makes her want to mark her territory?  Like I said, just brainstorming . . .
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 08:57:14 AM by Pookie »
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Offline Amber

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2011, 04:35:23 PM »
She scratches the doorways, and the walls in the hallway. The soft paws do have a nontoxic glue to hold them onto the claws. We have come to an agreement, he is helping me make two new wooden scratching posts for her, and we are going to try the nail caps. They have a cleat lock system now, so they should be harder for her to get off.

If he brings up declawing again, I have a lot of information I can print off to show him what it really is. He doesn't believe me when I say they remove the bone of the first joint, he thinks it is just the nail itself and that I am being dramatic. I can also get my vet to explain the procedure to him, and hopefully tell him why it is a bad thing and what it will do to her. Now that I am not so upset and am thinking clearly, I feel like I can handle this.

Offline Pookie

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2011, 04:37:17 PM »
Ok, one other thought.  It's probably a little off-the-wall, but it might be worth a try.  If you can find an animal communicator, maybe they could "talk" to Amber and help her understand she needs to stop scratching the walls, etc. and use the posts, or "ask" her why she scratches those things and not other things.

I did a VERY quick search and found this:  http://www.acersplace.com/page2.html, but I'm sure there are other websites that may provide names of communicators in your area.  Or just Google "certified animal communicator" and your area.  Some also do phone consultations, so that may be an option as well.

Good luck!

HUGS AND PURRS . . .
« Last Edit: December 01, 2011, 04:40:08 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Lola

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2011, 07:28:45 PM »
Adding two more scratching posts...goooood plan! The more "kitty approved" items available (especially where she likes to scratch), the better.   thumbsup1
I think I have used every trick in the book, but the two items that work the best for the 7 different feline personalities in our house are... sisal rope (NUMBER 1) on anything that can be wrapped with sisal rope  Bumpurr1 and cardboard scratchers. 
You'll figure out what Amber likes best and then you two will be just fine.   cat4
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Offline Lola

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2011, 03:24:31 PM »
How's it going with Amber?
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Offline Amber

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Re: I have to chose between mutilating my baby or giving her away.
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2011, 06:17:02 PM »
She seems to be using the new posts frequently, and she is locked in my room at night while we are asleep to prevent her from acting up when we are not looking. She doesn't appreciate the confinement, but it isn't going to hurt her.

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