New method and my next HT order

[Amber]

Hi all! I will be placing another HT order friday, barring any unexpected expenses at the vets office. Instead of the 5lb packages, I plan on ordering 2lb packages so that I can try a new method. I want to take all the supplements and the egg yolks for the recipe and mix them together in a lidded mixing cup, and dividing it into 3 equal portions, so that instead of one huge batch I can make 3 mini batches with different proteins so that Amber isn't eating the same bloody thing every day for a month before switching proteins. I have also tentatively declided to purchase quail or mini cornish game hen locally, quarter them, and feed every two or three days or so for dental benefits and mental stimulation. If she does well, I might go to ground in the afternoon (between 12 and 1pm) and evening (betwen 9 and 10pm, fed by someone else as I am not home) and prey model when I get home from work at between 2 and 5am

Here is the planned order:
 
5 x  Ground Rabbit/Bones/Organs, 2 lb
5 x  Ground Beef/Organs/Tripe and Bone, 2 lb
5 x  Ground Turkey/Bones/Organs, 2 lb
5 x  Ground Chicken/Bones/Organs, 2 lb
2 x  Ground Duck/Bone/Organs, 2 lb
4 x  Ground Llama/Bones/Organs/Tripe, 1 lb
2 x  Ground Goat/Bones/Tripe/Organs, 2 lb

Example of what I plan to do: mix 2lbs Turkey with 1/3 supplement mix, portion, label, mix 2lbs chicken with 1/3 supplement, portion, label, mix 2lbs goat with the rest of the supplement, portion, label, freeze and feed turkey one day, goat the next, chicken the next, then turkey again and so on.

Is this a better idea than making large batches with 1 grind and alternating monthly?
What is a good brand of hormone/antibiotic-free/un-enhanced cornish game hen?
How big are the bones in the mini CGHs (the ones that are around 1lb)? If I can't cut a bone with poultry shears she's not getting it.

[Middle Child]

I'm no expert, but I think rotating smaller batches is better. My cats get a different protein each night with their PMR portions. The Rad Cat and Stella&Chewy's is also rotated from day to day.

I too will not feed cornish hen bones unless I can cut them with my shears.  TopCat and Little Cat had cornish hen wings yesterday.

The video is a bit long-5 minutes, I didn't take time to cut and edit, but it gives you an idea of how they do.  TC has no trouble with anything bone in so far, and it's clear she relishes it. This is not their first time, but it's been about 5 weeks since they had wings.  Their other bone in is the remainder of the cornish hen bones that were shear-cuttable chopped into a sort of hash with the meat shreds still on them and frozen in .5 (point five) oz. portions) The love those, too.

LC needs her wings cut up, and even so she can't eat much, she ate about 5 oz here, but I can tell she is getting the dental benefit.  She prefers the second part of the wing (cut up) rather than the wingette (I guess that's what the wing tip is called).  Probably because there is so little meat on the wingette.

The video is in photobucket, click on picture to play

[Middle Child]

Interesting...notice how they move the food from one side of the mouth to the other! TC especially. Her jaw muscles are more developed than LC's

[DeeDee]

I think you've got a better system figured out there. I regularly rotate meats since I was told each has a bit of a different enzyme formula. They eat chicken, beef, green tripe, quail, duck and venison (and chicken neck and back pieces for their teeth) on a regular rotation, and they end up eating about 4 of those meats each week.

Plus, since animals in the wild are constantly rotating their meals, dependent on what they can catch, I figure that pets need it too.

[Amber]

MC: It looks like they handle cornish hen pretty well. I was just going to quarter the bird like I used to do with chickens for Saihlei (my grandfather's previous dog. Are some of the bones too big for that? Do you get the regular CGHs or the mini ones?

DeeDee: Amber does get a large variety, previously five different meats, but its spread over months instead of rotating weekly. Like you, I think this new idea is a better one. On an unrelated note, how do the cats do with the green tripe? I know dogs love it but I have heard of cats refusing it before.

[DeeDee]

...but its spread over months instead of rotating weekly.

I understood it was rotated, just not as often. Has anyone here found out EXACTLY which enzymes our cats and dogs need to digest foods? Are some of them in one meat but not another if they're different in each animal/food? Or is it just that they're all the same--but at different levels in one animal from another?

If they're not the same, do some meats have something missing that cats and dogs need? If it's a monthly rotation, if those meats are missing something, it's probably not good to wait a whole month to get it--if it's even in the next month's meat.

That's why I said I thought it was a better idea of yours there--though that cat is amazingly beautiful already!

On an unrelated note, how do the cats do with the green tripe? I know dogs love it but I have heard of cats refusing it before.

I can't imagine ANY animal with a decent olfactory system liking tripe! When they've got their tripe and quail rotation, I hold my breath when I'm putting it in their bowls! Those 2 meats stink like no others to me! But with dogs, it seems that the stinkier the better. It's definitely not something I'd recommend if someone has an even weaker stomach than mine--or be sure to do like I do and don't eat before feeding them. It definitely smells like something that scavengers would eat--after it's been sitting in the sun for a day.

[Amber]

My understanding is that it is the amino acid profiles rather than enzymes that make switching meat sources necessary, but I could be wrong. If AC stops by this thread, she may know.

[DeeDee]

I'm not absolutely positive, but I think that enzymes are made of amino acids.

[Amber]

Well, I got paid this morning, placed my HT order, and grabbed 3 natural cornish game hens from the grocery store today, along with a new pair of kitchen shears. Logically, I KNOW she knows what to do; she was prey model when she was a kitten, but at some point I got paranoid about the bone size of the food I was offering verses the bone size of cats' natural prey items, so I stopped. I swear sometimes its like I have to find something to worry about.

[Amber]

After watching Amber with the Cornish hen pieces, I am seriously thinking about making my next order all in chunks. I previously honestly believed that the only true benefit to prey model was the dental benefits. However, with the cornish hen pieces, after she eats, she actually acts satisfied. With the ground, she gulps it down, fusses for more food, and generally acts like she is starving. With the hen pieces, she doesn't do that, even though she eats the same amount. I shall repeat it, since it astounds me so: she acts SATISFIED in a way that she does not with ground food.

My next order won't be for months, so it will be cornish hen for now, though I may do one meal PMR per day instead of an entire day of PMR every three days, but I like to plan ahead. Does anyone here do PMR and order from HT? What pieces have acceptably small bones (bones that can be cut with poultry shears)?

I was thinking about doing small rabbit chunks (contain bone and organ), duck pieces (contain bone, no organ), whole dressed quail, the cornish hens for me to chop up myself (may contain organ, better price that what I get locally and not factory farmed), beef trim (large chunks, boneless, no organ), boneless turkey thigh cubes, green tripe for for probiotics and it also contains spleen, my second secreting organ (I will NOT touch kidney due to previous experience) and chicken hearts. I would also like to add chicken or turkey liver; I like the idea of chicken better, though chicken livers from the grocery store make her a bit ill. It could be a quality issue, and HT meats are clean and immediately frozen, so it could be that she won't react the same way to their liver.

[Middle Child]

I agree with you on the satisfaction theory! I have one who derives great satisfaction from chunks and even more from the wing bones. I haven't ordered from HT so can't answer those questions.  My cats get chicken liver from the store and don't have any trouble with it.

Turkey liver is excessively high in vitamin A so you have to be very careful with that.  I'm still kicking around the idea of trying tripe.  I can get it freeze dried.....I have very limited freezer space.