Author Topic: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats  (Read 17634 times)

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Offline Kittymom4

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Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« on: July 27, 2011, 05:38:09 PM »
Okay - so I'll be headed to the vet's office soon when the new baby arrives.  I have a really good vet - great in fact.  I don't know if they even use Metacam for cats and it wouldn't surprise me at all if it's office policy not to.  However to cover all my bases I want some info and want to put some DO NOT USE on all my kitties vet records.  They already have the Non-adjuvant only rabies because we can choose 1 year or 3 year here in Virginia which of course is an adjuvant or non version of the shot.

So I pretty much know the deal on Metacam - I came across some of the info by accident.  What do you all have to say about Clavamox and Convenia for cats?  Yes or No what's your opinion or do you have any research I should look up.  I of, course will do my own looking.  But I just wanted you all to thrown in your two cents here.

Thanks!

Offline Lola

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2011, 05:41:16 PM »
Middle Child seems to be prettttty informed (and experienced) in meds.  Hopefully, she will stop by later today, to help you out. 
Everything you NEED to know about caring for your feline. www.catinfo.org

Offline KatieAndMe

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2011, 04:01:21 PM »
I took Katie in for an initial exam after I adopted her from my local animal control. She was diagnosed with gingivitis and given both the Metcam and Covenia. I didn't know anything about these drugs until I researched them and now I'm very concerned about it. Her gingivitis is better but will it come back? She was in terrible pain and I don't want her to go through that again.   

Offline Kittymom4

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2011, 07:29:20 PM »
You have to keep up with cat's dental care throughout their lives.  Mine have a dental cleaning about every 3 years or so - dog too!  Grace just had her first this past Feb(usually dental health month for your vet).  Her breath was getting funky now she is clean and fresh  ;D

I plan budget wise and usually with the 3 cats and the dog one has a cleaning every year.  It's a chunk of change but it's sooo much cheaper in the long run to keep up with it.  It's easier on the cat and it only takes about 30

finnlacey

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2011, 08:06:19 PM »
Clavamox is fine but it tends to give many kitties diarrhea. Covenia is very overused and has some serious side effects.
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=convenia

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2011, 10:15:00 PM »
Metacam: You say you've already done the research, but I'll post some info here for anyone else reading.  I am adamantly against the use of metacam in cats, except in the most dire "nothing else to lose" situations. Metacam causes acute kidney failure in cats.  Metacam is not approved in the USA for use in cats, with the exception of the ONE TIME ONLY injection.  Once a cat has had that injection s/he should never ever have metacam again, ever.

Vets often prescribe it for oral use off label here, but since the dosages are for dogs, the margin for error in dosing is high. In addition the margin for error in usage is high, cats for instance, should not have an oral dose of metacam more than once every 48 hours. You'd be amazed how many people do not read prescription labels properly.  One example: I was at a friend's today.  Her dog was prescribed Rimadyl for pain.  She confessed to me that the first three days she was giving her dog twice as much as she was supposed to because she read the label wrong.  My friend is an educated intelligent well read person who takes great care of her pets.  And yet she made this mistake.  In the same scenario, with a cat and metacam, her mistake would most likely have been fatal.

Metacam is known to cause acute kidney failure in cats. Blood work to check kidney function before hand can help prevent tragedy, but not always.

Some info on metacam:


Quote
FDA Announces Addition of Boxed Warning to METACAM® (meloxicam) Labels

October 27, 2010

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) announced today the addition of a boxed warning to the label of two METACAM® (meloxicam) products. The drug’s manufacturer, Boehringer Ingelheim Vetmedica, Inc. (B.I.V.I.), changed the label to include:

WARNING

Repeated use of meloxicam in cats has been associated with acute renal failure and death. Do not administer additional injectable or oral meloxicam to cats. See Contraindications, Warnings, and Precautions for detailed information.

You can see the remainder of the warning here: http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm231254.htm

also read:

http://metacamkills.com/

And a vet's opinion based on her own research:

Is it true that Metacam kills cats?


Quote
However, what surprised me were the number of cases where the vets did everything by the books – preanesthetic blood and urine tests, intravenous fluids during surgery, blood pressure monitored, correct dosage given – and STILL had a cat go into renal failure after a single injection of Metacam injection was given!



Offline Middle Child

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2011, 10:28:57 PM »
Clavamox is fine but it tends to give many kitties diarrhea. Covenia is very overused and has some serious side effects.
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=convenia

Ah thanks, that was one of the links I was looking for on Convenia.  The main issue, in that article, to me is this:

 
Quote
It exerts its antibacterial effects for approximately 1-2 weeks but stays in the body for over 2 months.  

Another is http://www.facebook.com/pages/Convenia-adverse-reactions-in-catsfelines-and-dogscanines/118697391502152

Now, my opinion on Convenia for use with my own cats is, I will not use it.  It is on all my cats records Do Not Use Convenia. However I have no trouble medicating my cats.

Some people cannot medicate their cats or think they cannot (two different things), and have found Convenia to be somewhat of a "wonder drug".  It was used in my kitten, at a crucial time for her, my vet was unable to contact me for approval, and there were no adverse reactions.  It was used in a stray cat I rescued, because her mouth was so terrible from stomatitis, medicating her any other way would have been a cruelty.  She, also, did not have any adverse affects.

I know other people who have had it used in their cats without problem.  However in my opinion it is used too often for things that it is not meant for.  I know a vet tech who LOVES convenia and will defend it's use in a manner that makes me think of me and my blind side against metacam and declawing.  She will not see any other side of convenia or admit there is any chance of adverse reaction.  For those who have experienced the devastation of an adverse reatction in their cat, of course, this can be a little trying. :)

For you kittymom I advise you to get your cat(s) used to being handled right away, (I can offer tips for that if you need them) so if the time ever comes when you need to medicate them, it will not be a problem.

PS regarding clavamox vs convenia.  convenia is a derivative of penicillin.  If a cat has had a bad reaction to Clavamox or amoxicillin, Convenia should not be used.

Offline KatieAndMe

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2011, 10:34:26 PM »
It makes me sick that I didn't know this before she got the shot! When I called the vet to inquire more about it I was told by the tech that the vet wouldn't give anything that would harm Katie. Yeah, right!

Katie is only 1 1/2 years old and has no plaque on her teeth. So the news of her having gingivitis is scarey. Her gums look better now but I'm worried it will come back. Poor little angel was in a cage for 10 months and no one noticed she was in extreme pain!

Should I have blood work done now, after the fact? Or would she already have shown adverse reaction to both Metcam and Covenia?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2011, 10:37:34 PM by KatieAndMe »

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2011, 10:41:45 PM »
Clavamox.  Vets and pet parents like clavamox for a few reasons. It's cheap.  It can be given as pills OR liquid.  It's not "bad" tasting, as compared to medicines such as baytril or clindamycin (antirobe), so the cat doesn't foam up and gag.

The down side is the common side effects of diarrhea and stomach upset.  Most cats can tolerate it okay.  Most vets will not tell you to give the medicine with food, but that is important, it will help with the stomach upset. The diarrhea can be counteracted by giving a probiotic during and for a week or so after the course of the antibiotic.

In my experience, the more a cat has to take clavamox, the higher the chance of an adverse reaction. My herpes boy used to have pretty bad secondary infections when he had a herpes flare up.  I would put him on clavamox and that worked well.  But the fourth time he had to have the clavamox he got very sick on it, so I won't ever give it to him again.

My FLUTD kitty has had a few UTIs.  Clavamox clears them up.  She even likes the pills, I put them in a little wet food, she eats the wet food, saves the pill for last and scoops it up.  She's also taken clavamox a couple of times for an ear infection. (chronic problem, due to a yeast infection that went untreated for who knows how long, before I adopted her) She's never had any problem with it..until the last time she had it, she got very lethargic, and nauseous while on it.  So I won't give it to her again.

My other adult...I know she can't have clavamox because one time, when the above mentioned cat was on it, I gave the other cat the food with the clavamox in it by mistake.  This cat didn't mind the pill either she gobbled it up, but then vomited half an hour later.   So the one time she's needed antibiotics since living with me, she had Baytril.

So..in my opinion, use clavamox if the vet prescribes it, but give it with food and use a probiotic.  If the cat gets very sick and symptoms don't improve, call the vet and ask for a different antibiotic and don't use clavamox again.  If kitty tolerates it okay, then it's all good. :)

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2011, 10:52:22 PM »
It makes me sick that I didn't know this before she got the shot! When I called the vet to inquire more about it I was told by the tech that the vet wouldn't give anything that would harm Katie. Yeah, right!

Katie is only 1 1/2 years old and has no plaque on her teeth. So the news of her having gingivitis is scarey. Her gums look better now but I'm worried it will come back. Poor little angel was in a cage for 10 months and no one noticed she was in extreme pain!

Should I have blood work done now, after the fact? Or would she already have shown adverse reaction to both Metcam and Covenia?

I would have the blood work done, KatieandMe. But I know it's expensive. For me, I need peace of mind, but I am fortunate enough to be in a position at this time of my life that I can afford to get that peace of mind.  The blood work would be good for more than just to check her kidneys after the metacam.  Severe dental disease like Katie's gingivitis/possible stomatitis can also cause kidney failure. Blood work will show the state of her kidneys now, which, if all is well, also gives you a baseline for what is normal for her.

Vet techs of course are going to be loyal to the vets they work for.  Write down your questions and concerns and talk them over with the vet.  Many vets are so used to clients just accepting what they say they don't seem to bother to explain or warn, they just do. It saves time, that way. The only way to know for sure if a vet is going to be one you can work with is to find out if, once the vet knows that: *you are a hands on pet parent, *you want to know the whys and hows, *you do your own research and form your own opinions, that vet will respect that and treat you as a partner in Katie's care, a member of Katie's healthcare team, not just one who says okay and does whatever the vet says.

Asking questions doesn't have to mean you don't trust your vet.  It means you want to KNOW, in order that Katie get the best care and treatment possible.

I hope this is making sense I am getting tired and running out of steam. :)

Offline KatieAndMe

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2011, 11:02:13 PM »
Thanks Middle Child. I have a followup appointment for her next week and I'll definitely be asking more questions than I did the first time.

Is it possible the Covenia cured her or is this something that will more than likely return?

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2011, 11:15:28 PM »
Convenia can cure infection, but it will not cure gingivits or stomatitis. My knowledge on either of those is anecdotal only.

 My mother had a cat with stomatitis and the vet wouldn't do a full mouth extraction and that cat suffered terribly, for years.   He was a Russian Blue she rescued as a stray. (Russian Blue is a breed prone to stomatitis).  He had dental cleanings, but they only helped temporarily. He was given steroids, but it didn't help all that much, and I kept begging my mother to take him to a different vet.  She kept saying she would, but she didn't.  The vet gave her metacam to help Jack with pain (the oral, not the shot) and though my mother was very careful to give it only once every 48 hours Jack died of acute kidney failure from the oral metacam.

I have a friend who rescued a group of cats all from the same feral colony.  They all have a genetic predisposition to gingival dental disease and stomatitis.  She has 12 cats that have had full mouth extractions, and only one of those 12 had continued problems after the extractions. (When you read up on stomatitis you will find there are some cases where even the full mouth extractions don't completely eradicate the problem)

Atopica, (cyclosporine) is a drug for autoimmune skin disorders.  There has been some thought that this medicine may help cats with stomatitis.  Unfortunately it is an extremely expensive medication.

Be sure to let us know how the vet visit goes.

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2011, 07:25:37 AM »
Metacam: You say you've already done the research, but I'll post some info here for anyone else reading.  I am adamantly against the use of metacam in cats, except in the most dire "nothing else to lose" situations. Metacam causes acute kidney failure in cats.  Metacam is not approved in the USA for use in cats, with the exception of the ONE TIME ONLY injection.  Once a cat has had that injection s/he should never ever have metacam again, ever.

Vets often prescribe it for oral use off label here, but since the dosages are for dogs, the margin for error in dosing is high. In addition the margin for error in usage is high, cats for instance, should not have an oral dose of metacam more than once every 48 hours. You'd be amazed how many people do not read prescription labels properly.  One example: I was at a friend's today.  Her dog was prescribed Rimadyl for pain.  She confessed to me that the first three days she was giving her dog twice as much as she was supposed to because she read the label wrong.  My friend is an educated intelligent well read person who takes great care of her pets.  And yet she made this mistake.  In the same scenario, with a cat and metacam, her mistake would most likely have been fatal.

Metacam is known to cause acute kidney failure in cats. Blood work to check kidney function before hand can help prevent tragedy, but not always.

Some info on metacam:


You can see the remainder of the warning here: http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/CVMUpdates/ucm231254.htm

also read:

http://metacamkills.com/

And a vet's opinion based on her own research:

Is it true that Metacam kills cats?





Correction:  the link did not show (bolded red above) here it is:

http://is-it-true-that.askavetquestion.com/is-it-true-that-metacam-kills-cats/

finnlacey

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2011, 12:19:47 PM »
You can also ask for Orbax in place of Clavamox if it causes too much stomach upset.

Offline Kittymom4

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Re: Metcam, Clavamox, Convenia in Cats
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2011, 07:17:26 PM »
Thanks for the input guys.  I've had (different) cats that took the Clavamox for one reason or another a time or two - they seemed to do well on it - but I did know that it should accompany a meal within about 30 minutes.  Also a FYI your take until gone instructions will often contradict how long that medicine is good for after it has been mixed so be careful of that.  Read the box or bottle for how long it's good for in days (I think 7?). 

For those of you with stomatits:  Let me throw in a word of caution to you.  There are different types of stomatits not all respond to the same drugs or treatments.  If your kitty is struggling  PLEASE PLEASE see a specialist - even if you have to go out of your immediate area. If you cat has never been tested for Bartonella - please have this done!  up to 1/3 of cats are carriers of Bartonella and stomatits is an end result of this disease. 

Stomatitis as a complication of Bartonella is what we lost our Friskie to.  He had the Bartonella for so long without us knowing that we were unable to cure it.  Had we had a very simple test done, simple antibiotics would have cured him and we would still have our baby. 

Stomatitis a painfull disease.  As a result our Friskie went through a year of falling apart as we tried to save him.  We tried everything as we watched him deteriorate.   Two sets of dental extractions.  Weekly, sometimes bi-weekly cold laser therapy treatment for gingival swelling.  We fed him by hand when he wouldn't eat.  Pain killers, antibiotics, We were on the Atopic for a few months ($$)  All in all we spent a bit over $4,000 and we still lost our precious baby a 8 years old.  He went from a 13lb cat to about 8lbs when he died and he was also diabetic from not being able to eat well. 

I cannot stress how important it is to find a vet well versed in treating this disease is!!  It was awful to watch my cat waste away while we grasped at every straw to save him and fail.

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