Author Topic: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?  (Read 29718 times)

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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #105 on: July 28, 2018, 11:52:03 AM »
Thanks for adding the information Lola.  Most of what I've read over the years points to allergen testing being a waste of money, and wow, those kits are expensive, think how much the vet must upcharge too!

I think elimination diets are more useful if food intolerance or food allergy is suspected..and that goes for people too.  But still, it's useful information.

Jennie has been doing much better the past few days, since she passed the 8th day mark with no poultry product of any kind with the exception of the egg shell calcium. Not having anything to replace it yet, I am still using that. 

Until this morning. She has been having a normal poop once a day for the past 3 days, still with blood though.  But the stools were normal, normal size (3 small pieces) and shape, normal firm texture, poop shell with fur inside.  Just the blood on the outside of it. Very little odor.

Then this morning, after her normal 3 piece fur-in-a-shell (with a small bit of blood) poop at 5 am (yes I got up when she did, to check) a few hours later she had more, two more small pieces, and these did have some odor and more blood, with a blob of blood after passing the stool.

I am going to bring her to her appointment fasted, which means I won't be coming home for lunch on Monday. It will be a set back for Mazy cat, but it's the only way.  I can't come home, feed Mazy cat and Queen Eva and not Jennie, and I want Jennie to be fasted for blood work and x rays.

Offline Lola

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #106 on: July 28, 2018, 01:05:53 PM »
For those that might be reading this thread:

Nutriscan is a test one can order directly and do at home.  No extra vet charge, unless a person WANTS to involve their vet. 
I pay from 200 to 300 hundred for blood work, so this test is in the normal range (IMHO) for testing. 

No waiting 8 to 12 weeks, after eliminating something from a pet's diet.  This test will give a person the info needed in two weeks.  Less time and less guess work. 

Dr. Jean Dodds DVM is the founder of Nutriscan - Boatload of credentials can be found here: http://www.nutriscan.org/knowledge-center/w-jean-dodds-dvm/

This link also provides some case study info, that I personally found interesting.  Others might also.   http://www.nutriscan.org/case-studies/gastrointestinal-case-studies/pet-digestive-issues/

I don't now about your vet, but the two vets I go to would likely request testing that would add up to much more then $300 bucks. 
« Last Edit: July 28, 2018, 01:15:00 PM by Lola »
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #107 on: July 28, 2018, 03:08:49 PM »
Thanks for clarifying. I misunderstood the link.

 I'll start reading.

Have you done this Lola?

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #108 on: July 28, 2018, 03:57:44 PM »


I don't now about your vet, but the two vets I go to would likely request testing that would add up to much more then $300 bucks. 


Yes of course there will be expensive diagnostic testing.  But that will have to be done regardless of a Nutriscan test.  Blood work is important, no matter what the symptoms.  X rays will also be useful either diagnosing or eliminating certain things.

And I can't put these things off for 3 more weeks while I order a test and wait for results, you know?

After reading more on the web page I no longer am dismissing it out of hand, because I now understand this is not an allergen test, which is what I misunderstood before.

I think the Nutriscan deserves it's own thread don't you? Rather than soon being buried in this one.


Offline Lola

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #109 on: July 28, 2018, 06:00:09 PM »

Have you done this Lola?

No, I haven't.  But I would, if needed.  I trust Dr. Dodds.  IMHO it COULD eliminate possible expensive testing, and elimination work on your end.  Blood work NOT included in that statement.    :)

I was just throwing the info out there for you.  I DEFINITELY wasn't suggesting you put off Jennie's vet visit!

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Offline Lola

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #110 on: July 31, 2018, 10:09:55 PM »
Any updates, concerning the vet visit? 
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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #111 on: August 01, 2018, 05:49:59 AM »
Yes, but havne't had the energy to write it all out yet. I like the vet and she either already has some knowledge of raw and home cooked feeding, or did some researching prior to our appointment.

Jennie had blood work (my choice, it's been 9 months, and since she was fasted I figured just do it now, instead of at her annual) and the stool has been sent out for  testing for certain bacteria, parasites (not the common ones already tested for ) and so on. Urine was drawn as well, since Jennie had a full bladder.

Vet says because the blood is fresh, on the surface, notably the end, of the stool the problem is likley an irritation in the rectal area, NOT anything in her digestive tract (not in stomach or intestinal) which is good news.

Her opinion is, since things got sliglty better after stopping the chicken (which carries a heavy bacteria \load) is that the irritation is being caused by bacteria, Jennie, for whatever reason is not handling the bacteria load in the raw diet.

While waiting for results, her suggestion is to lightly cook the surfaces of Jennie's meat before serving. I said I would, but I haven't started yet because I havne't quite figured out how to work it into the routine.

She also feels that Jennie should be okay with cooked egg yolk, so I think I'm going to go ahead and get some Alnutrin to try with Jennie. I really really don't want to mess with following a recipe and making my own balancing supplement.

There is more I want to say about this, but I don't have time now.

Thanks for asking/reminding me to update.  Hug1 Hug1

EDIT I poached her pork this morning.  She went crazy over it, of course because it is something different.  Jennie craves variety and pork and beef day in and day out, and no EZc, must be getting pretty boring to her. Cooking it changes the odor and texture. I won't be cooking her lunch.

By the way I had hoped for an x ray on Monday too, but vet did not feel it was necessary.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #112 on: August 01, 2018, 08:19:08 AM »
Thanks for the update!

Quote
By the way I had hoped for an x ray on Monday too, but vet did not feel it was necessary.

I'm not sure it would have helped since x-rays mainly show bones/calcium/hard areas.  Soft tissues, not so well.  Were you hoping for a barium series so her GI tract would show more clearly on the x-ray?

I'm glad Jennie liked the poached pork!    thumbsup1  Will you be increasing her probiotic (if you haven't already) to help with the bacteria issue?
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #113 on: August 01, 2018, 01:17:09 PM »
I wanted an x ray to see if she has any malformations. I was reading about it after researching colitis, as one of the causes.  x rays were recommended in the diagnostics, where I was reading.

Jennie doesn't squat to poop, she stands up and I wondered if her issues are being caused by some malformation.

Vet did not think that was likely, she is focused on bacterial irritation.  I have been thinking about changing Jennie's probiotic (and s.boulardii), the one I use for Jennie and Queen Eva was long ago recommended to me by the IBD group creators, but they no longer recommend it as the top of the line in helpfulness, there are others they think are better. Same with the s.boulardii. Problem is, their recommendations are always changing, so I don't bother to rush out and make these changes everything they decide something else is better than what they used to say was good..

When I increased the one I am giving her now, she had a very bloody poop the next morning.  I have increased the s.boulardii by half a capsule.

And I am not going to start changing too many things at once for Jennie.. For now I am gradually changing her over to cooked.  Aside form calcium, liver/pancreas and taurine, her diet is not currently balanced.  No omega 3 and no choline.  I don't want to do it this way much longer, but the results of the PCR (poop) won't be in until next week.

Offline Lola

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #114 on: August 03, 2018, 12:07:19 AM »
 Thanks for the update. Hug1
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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #115 on: August 03, 2018, 05:50:47 AM »
Jennie is still having those multiple poops a day, yesterday 3, but up until sometime overnight, they aren't having any odor, seem almost normal except for the blood.  But some time overnight she has had a very very foul one, no blood on it that I could see, but the smell is still lingering hours later.

The only changes have been cooked pork two mornings in a row (raw the rest of the time), and last night I tried giving her s.boulardii and pancreas a 1/2 hour before the meal.

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #116 on: August 04, 2018, 08:53:45 AM »
Jennie really loves her cooked pork meal.  It gives her that variety she so craves.  I am still only poaching her breakfast pork.

Everything else remains the same.  She is still passing tiny bloody poops 3 times a day. Totaled up the amount would be a normal sized stool for a raw fed cat, but why is she passing them 3 times a day instead of all at once?  What causes that?

First of course, we need the results of the PCR fecal.

Along with muscle meat (pork and beef) she is getting the appropriate amount of beef liver, and lamb pancreas glandular (capsule form) for organs, egg shell calcium in the appropriate amount per meal, and taurine with the cooked meal.

She is getting a whole s.boulardii with breakfast, and a half with her bed time meal.

Natural Factors  double strength probiotic at bed time.

Pork bone broth with breakfast and supper meals.

She will need further balancing soon, but I am afraid to try her on egg yolk yet, to see if she can tolerate the Alnutrin.

Have to wait for the PCR results, then move forward.

I can't stand the idea of her feeling any discomfort.  It seems to me she shows a hesitation each time before heading down to the litter box now, but I could simply be projecting my feelings.  I asked the vet about it, and she said she probably doesn't even notice..meaning no she is not in discomfort when she passes these stools, but I can't help worrying about it.  Vet said probably no more likely to cause her discomfort that a human with hemorrhoids, is how she put it.

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #117 on: August 04, 2018, 01:39:32 PM »
I'm feeling very annoyed with myself that I did not insist on the x ray while we were there.  There we were, with her all fasted, it would have only taken a couple of minutes, and I wouldn't be sitting here worrying about blockages.

Because I remember now that I read that passing little stools like this frequently, can be an indication of a blockage. This is all that can get past the blockage, in other words.

When I talk to her about the test results I will bring it up again.  But now of course it involves more time, more stress for Jennie.  I'll have to drop her off in the morning, fasted, or skip coming home for lunch and rush home and bring her back in, again.

WHY don't vets EVER LISTEN to the people who know their pets best?

Offline Lola

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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #118 on: August 05, 2018, 02:09:34 AM »
I feel for ya.  Vets give explanations that make sense at the time.  It isn't until we get home, that we re-think and sometimes over-think.   Hug1
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Re: Jennie developing an intolerance to beef?
« Reply #119 on: August 06, 2018, 05:02:39 PM »
 Campylobacter is the diagnosis. Vet wants to put Jennie on erythromycin, if she can find it in cat dose. Can't understand why Queen Eva doesn't have it too, or even Mazy cat (different diet) since they share litter boxes but Jennie is the only one with symptoms.

Vet says her immune system is just not as hearty, maybe.

 Vet says the frequent pooping is caused by the inflammation and blood, causing her colon to contract more than normal.

(edit) It has just occurred to me that Jennie is the only cat who ever ate chicken wings. I bet she got it from them. Meaning - as an explanation why Queen Eva did not get it. Queen Eva never ate chicken wings so if it was the wings that were affected by the bacteria, Queen Eva would not be affected.

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