Parenting-Furkids

Cats => Cat Food And Nutrition => Raw Feeding => Topic started by: Catgirl64 on December 12, 2017, 05:18:22 PM

Title: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 12, 2017, 05:18:22 PM
My Alnutrin came today!

I'm excited to get started, but a little nervous and scared, too.  I don't want to mess this up.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 12, 2017, 06:15:07 PM
Big learning curve in raw feeding.  HeadButt You'll be great.  I do know how you feel though.  When I got that first bag of Stella & Chewy's, no, in fact I think it was the night I ordered it, I dreamed all night about big yucky globs of raw meat all over my apartment. Every where I turned there was more, and I kept trying to clean it up, then forgetting to wash my hands, then cleaning it up again. funny2

Incredible to think that was almost 5 1/2 years ago.  May 2012.  Wow.

I'm so excited for you and your cats, you are going to be amazed in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 12, 2017, 06:16:09 PM
bananamiddlechild bananamiddlechild


Big learning curve in raw feeding.  HeadButt You'll be great.  I do know how you feel though.  When I got that first bag of Stella & Chewy's, no, in fact I think it was the night I ordered it, I dreamed all night about big yucky globs of raw meat all over my apartment. Every where I turned there was more, and I kept trying to clean it up, then forgetting to wash my hands, then cleaning it up again. funny2

Incredible to think that was almost 5 1/2 years ago.  May 2012.  Wow.

I'm so excited for you and your cats, you are going to be amazed in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 12, 2017, 06:25:37 PM
PS hey Catgirl do you have way of recording?  I mean are you keeping a journal or record of some kind?  I highly advise it, at least at first.  You will want to know all their weights, to keep track of loss or gains (this is how you figure out what is the right daily amount per cat).

You'll want to keep track of poops too.

I have a favor to ask as well, if you aren't too busy, would you start a new thread in our raw feeding section and and chronicle your transition for the forum?  I don't mean to put pressure on you, meaning I don't expect you to post every little detail but it would be helpful to others, and fun for us to follow along!


http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?board=16.0
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 13, 2017, 03:50:35 AM
PS hey Catgirl do you have way of recording?  I mean are you keeping a journal or record of some kind?  I highly advise it, at least at first.  You will want to know all their weights, to keep track of loss or gains (this is how you figure out what is the right daily amount per cat).

You'll want to keep track of poops too.

I have a favor to ask as well, if you aren't too busy, would you start a new thread in our raw feeding section and and chronicle your transition for the forum?  I don't mean to put pressure on you, meaning I don't expect you to post every little detail but it would be helpful to others, and fun for us to follow along!


http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?board=16.0

I will try.  I can probably make some kind of journal on my computer.  Actually, that's one of the things I am a little concerned about.  I have a very precise kitchen scale to measure Alnutrin and food, but just an extremely basic bathroom scale that's not really going to show small fluctuations in the weight of the cats.  I will look around and see what a good one will cost, but it may be out of reach just now.  That, along with a meat grinder, would make life much, much easier, but I'll probably have to use what I have for now, since we just got hit with the cost of a new laptop.  I am already very careful to monitor pee, poop, any changes in appetite or activity, and I feel and examine each cat's body every day, looking for changes I can detect that way.   

When I price scales, what kind do you suggest?  Baby scale?  I would like to monitor the weight of my dogs, too.  Fortunately, they are small enough that anything that will work for the cats will also work for them.  How often should I weigh?
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 13, 2017, 05:39:52 AM
I have a baby scale this one:

https://smile.amazon.com/Salter-Digital-Toddler-Weighing-Scale/dp/B00009KX5U/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1513164882&sr=8-2-spons&keywords=salter+baby+scale&psc=1

But there are cheaper models.

https://smile.amazon.com/Smart-Weigh-Weighing-Capacity-Accurate/dp/B01IC7P3GS/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1513164882&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=salter+baby+scale&psc=1

 I have a friend who got her baby scale on her local freecycle so that may be an option for you?

I weigh weekly.  I weigh on Saturday mornings (or sometimes Sunday) before feeding,  trying to make sure everyone has peed before weigh in time for consistency.  Last week for instance, Jennie had suddenly gained 2 ounces!  Right after I weighed her she ran down to the litter box. I weighed her again when she came back up, and those 2 ounces were gone.

Jennie is the only one who has 2 ounce pee weights.  Mazy cat's pee weighs about 0.7 oz and tiny Queen Eva's are even less.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 13, 2017, 05:43:24 AM
PS I bought that scale on August 30 2011.  I'm still on the original battery!
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 13, 2017, 03:34:20 PM
I'm pretty excited!  We just did some shopping, and I found solution-free chicken leg quarters at Walmart, of all places.  I personally loathe Walmart, myself, but my housemate likes it.  Anyway, I never, ever buy meat there, but I took a look just to see what they had, and found 10 lb. bags of leg quarters for $5.38 each!  I read the label very carefully:  no additives or preservatives, sodium 95 mg. per serving.  "May contain two percent retained water," but at 54 cents/lb., I can deal with that, as I would be adding water, anyway, so I got two bags.  Got some chicken livers there, too. 

We will probably go to Sprouts Friday.  Their weekly flyer has a coupon for $10 off, if you buy $50 worth of stuff, and they have some great specials this week.  I love Sprouts.   

There is also an downloadable coupon for pork loin at 99 cents/lb., good Saturday only, at Kroger.  I will have to check the label, as the last time I got packaged pork there, it was butt roast, which I use to make pulled pork and taco filling, but I checked the one still in my freezer, and it does have enhancements, up to 3% of solution.  I suspect the loins will be the same, but if they are not, I will be maxing out that coupon and getting five of them.  The more I can save on meats like chicken and pork, the more I will have left to add a little variety later on.

I've asked my housemate to check around and see if anyone she knows has a baby scale they don't need anymore.  This may be the easiest way to get one.  She knows a lot of people with small children, including some who have probably had their last child. 

Oh, almost forgot.  I got a big container of Temptations, too, just in case! 

Good thing I enjoy working with food...
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 13, 2017, 06:20:44 PM
If you want to tell your story...  http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?topic=5486.new#new
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 14, 2017, 05:29:48 AM
Sounds like a great idea Catgirl!

ACV= apple cider vinegar, sorry.  ACV helps draw the goodness out of the bones.  It has to be raw unprocessed vinegar though. "with the mother" should be on the label.  I prefer Bragg brand.  I have been forced to try other brands, because my local grocery stopped carrying Bragg.  I didn't like either of their other choices after trying them, so I had to look further afield for Bragg.

I was getting it on Amazon for a very expensive price, then recently discovered Walmart carries it.

How much do ACV do you use?  I have some on hand, not Bragg, but it does have the mother.  I'm pretty sure I can get Bragg at Sprouts when we shop there Friday.

I'm getting ready to start prepping the chicken.  I think the first thing I will do is bake it lightly, as done on the catinfo site.  Should I remove the bones first, so I have an accurate raw weight, or may I bake bone-in and then weigh it, including the weight of the liquid in the pan?  I do have a couple of questions for you about the Alnutrin, too.  I know it is important not to use too much, and the thing that concerns me is, since I don't have a grinder, how will I make sure it is evenly distributed through the food?  I want to make sure the cats aren't just licking off the broth with the Alnutrin in it.  Also, since unsupplemented meat should not make up more than 10% of what the cats eat, and Alnutrin is not to be used with commercial food, does this mean I must go directly from a little meat mixed with the canned to all home-made, or is it safe to blend the two?  Last question is, some of the recipes on Alnutrin call for the chicken to be skinned, and some do not.  Which is better?
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 14, 2017, 05:47:47 AM
I'm out of time for answering this morning, but will come back after work. xx
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 14, 2017, 03:05:31 PM
You add water to Alnutrin.  It makes a slurry... so to speak.  Mix the water and Alnutrin first... add X amount of Alnutrin per x pounds of food + liver.  I make batches of food at one time.  15 to 20 lbs.  I then freeze by portions.  One day portions.  Makes life easier. 

Your cats eat chunks of meat... right?  They should lick their plates clean!  :) 

If I understand your question...You can feed raw and canned at the same time.  You don't want UNbalanced meals.  Raw with Alnutrin and canned (NEVER add Alnutrin to canned) = balanced meals. 

What I do with chicken... some meals include the skin, some have little skin, others have no skin.  I feed the same protein for all 3 daily meals.  Never the same protein two days in a row.  Anyway...Some say no skin.  Others same some skin.  And others say all skin.  I figure furkids are safe by doing a little of all the recommendations. 

*Some as in reliable sources... Dr. Pierson, Alnutrin, and ...I don't remember who else.  Been too long.   Silly7
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 15, 2017, 12:46:57 AM
You add water to Alnutrin.  It makes a slurry... so to speak.  Mix the water and Alnutrin first... add X amount of Alnutrin per x pounds of food + liver.  I make batches of food at one time.  15 to 20 lbs.  I then freeze by portions.  One day portions.  Makes life easier. 

Your cats eat chunks of meat... right?  They should lick their plates clean!  :) 

If I understand your question...You can feed raw and canned at the same time.  You don't want UNbalanced meals.  Raw with Alnutrin and canned (NEVER add Alnutrin to canned) = balanced meals. 

What I do with chicken... some meals include the skin, some have little skin, others have no skin.  I feed the same protein for all 3 daily meals.  Never the same protein two days in a row.  Anyway...Some say no skin.  Others same some skin.  And others say all skin.  I figure furkids are safe by doing a little of all the recommendations. 

*Some as in reliable sources... Dr. Pierson, Alnutrin, and ...I don't remember who else.  Been too long.   Silly7

Okay, raw with Alnutrin mixed with canned is what I suspected, but I just wanted to make sure, because of the warning not to use with commercial food.  I was probably being overly cautious about that.   :-[

I guess my final remaining question is, do I want to weigh the meat before doing a surface cook?  If I do, I will cut it from the bone first, weigh it, then do the baking.  If it doesn't matter, I will do surface cook while it's on the bone, and then debone it.  I know some weight will be lost when I cook, and after reading the warnings about not overdosing on the Alnutrin, I want to be super careful.

My cats have eaten very small chunks, but they were wholly cooked chunks.  I have no idea how they will react to raw.  I think I feel more comfortable doing a surface bake with this stuff, anyway. 

Can you tell I am nervous?   Doh1  I'm a little embarrassed to be begging for so much hand-holding. 

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 15, 2017, 05:24:30 AM
Admin Edit:  Requested Posts Moved! :)


I am so excited for you!

You bought the Alnutrin containing egg shell calcium, right?

Yes, you need to know the weight of the food raw, after removing the bones, because that is what the Alnutrin dose is based on.  Save ALL liquids from the process and include in the final product.

These are the kind of things we like to see in a raw introduction thread because these are common questions and worries and it may help someone else.

Lola, I don't know if I have the ability to not only split a thread and move the split to the correct forum? I think we should take this thread..from the start of Catgirl's questions and start it as a new thread in the raw section.

I would split starting at post #19, when the Alnutrin is ordered.  But I have just tried and I don't see any way to move the split to the raw section, I guess the Admin needs to do that?
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on December 15, 2017, 09:30:23 AM
Can you tell I am nervous?   Doh1  I'm a little embarrassed to be begging for so much hand-holding. 

Please, don't be embarrassed!  FWIW, you're helping me out big-time.  I never got my cats on all raw -- they were mostly canned with a little raw as a snack.  So someday when I have a kitty (or two) sharing my home again, I'm going to want to feed all raw, and your questions and this thread will be a HUGE help to me.  So thank you.

I was super-nervous going to raw, too, and that's part of the reason I never made the complete switch.  No matter how many times I'd read that cats can handle raw bone, I just couldn't work up the nerve to feed it.  But another major problem I had was sourcing organ.  There were times Pookie couldn't handle the chicken liver that I got from the supermarket, and I couldn't find any other organ.  Now that I think about it, I wonder if like MC's Mazy, he would have been ok with organic chicken liver, but I don't know where I would have found that.

If it helps at all, the first time I introduced Pookie and his sister to raw, I had to keep telling myself that this is what they're supposed to eat.  And my heart was still racing.  But when they tried it and were all over it like white on rice, it was THE BEST feeling.

I suspect we've all been nervous about making the switch.  But you can do this, and you have a great support system here to help you.  And your pets will be SO HAPPY and healthy!

You've got this.   HeadButt :-*
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 15, 2017, 09:37:30 AM


Can you tell I am nervous?   Doh1  I'm a little embarrassed to be begging for so much hand-holding. 



I asked questions for years... literally... before I took the jump.  Then I asked even more questions...sometimes the same question several times.  Heck, I STILL ask questions. 
I am grateful that so many people "held my hand."  They could have just as easily given up on me and thought... "Yeah, yeah, she is all talk.  She is never going to take the plunge." 

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 15, 2017, 03:10:36 PM
Oy.  First lesson learned.

Chicken leg quarters on the bone are cheap for a reason.  From one 10 lb. bag of quarters, I ended up with 5 lb., 10.4 oz. of meat to surface bake.  I put at least half of the skin in the stock pot with the bones.

I'm know I didn't get every possible scrap of meat off the bones and I felt rather incompetent at the task, but my bone broth should be amazing.  I do, however, have a new appreciation for the value of pre-boned meats, or for portions that are easier to work with, like bone-in breasts.   :-[ 

We did not make it to Spouts today, but that is just as well, as this will make a difference in terms of what I want to buy there. 

On the bright side, a couple of the cats were trying to get at the chicken even while I was deboning it.   :)

I have the bones simmering on the stove, but still need a little guidance about how much ACV, how much water, how long to cook, etc.  I've looked a little bit online, and all I can say is, 24 hours!?!

*****

Well..."surface bake" probably turned out more baked than I wanted, but there are still a good number of almost raw bits in there.  I'll use a cookie sheet next time, and not a Pyrex casserole.  Waiting for the chicken to cool off enough to handle so I can dice it up.  Time to weigh the liver.

******

Oh, lovely.  I usually do a better job of reading instructions, but Alnutrin specifies skinless on the package.  Now, I either pick out all the skin and risk the measurements being off because of the weight, or leave it in there, and hope for the best.  I'll probably leave it in there.   

I am beginning to understand how new parents feel when they bring a baby home from the hospital:  if I make even one mistake, it will break!   
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 15, 2017, 04:55:03 PM
I am a terrible person.   >:D

I know this large batch of food will not be ready for my cats' next meal, so I snuck a package of grass-fed ground beef out of the freezer to make tonight's dinner.  I can get it ready to go and mix with their canned a lot faster than I can dice all that chicken.

This will be a secret from my housemate, who considers grass-fed a waste of money in the first place, and has probably forgotten that I ever bought it.  Shhhhhhh!     ;)

Disclaimer:  I love my housemate with all my heart, but we have wildly divergent views about what is and is not good food, for people or for pets. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 15, 2017, 07:26:17 PM
Well, I would say that went well.  I got really bold and mixed a pound of the semi-raw beef food I just made with one large can of commercial food.  Each cat has eaten some of it, and they seem to like it. 

I also realized something I should have thought of before this.  I was concerned because they didn't seem to eat as much as I expected, and then I thought for a moment, and it hit me: I had put out enough food for two meals, and possibly three.   Doh1  I will leave it down for a bit longer, and then put whatever is left in the refrigerator, and offer it again in a few hours.

Another lesson:  I'm more stuck in free-feeding mode than my cats, putting down so much food at once.  I've also probably been leaving the canned stuff out too long for them to really understand that mealtime is mealtime.  I think people may be harder to transition than cats!

Question about scales.  Would a really good bathroom scale (like down to the ounce) work?  That way, I could either weigh myself, and then weigh myself holding each cat, or weigh a carrier, and then the carrier with the cat in it.  I don't think some of mine will sit still on a baby scale. 

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 16, 2017, 09:58:20 AM
Gave the cats a couple cans of Redbarn, no homemade, before going to bed.  I knew they were hungry, but was afraid I might fall asleep and leave the raw stuff out too long.  They ate it, of course. 

Put down some more of the canned/raw mix this morning.  They are eating, but I think I will be glad I got the Temptations.  What do they PUT in that stuff, anyway? 

Going to Sprouts today, as we did not make it yesterday, and, yippee, my favorite pet store has a special, today only, on Fromm canned food.  Buy a case, get one free.  I still need some canned until the transition is complete, and this is a brand that I trust more than most.  If we didn't have to go to Sprouts, too, I would take Bandit with me.  He loves to pick out his own dog treats there.  :D


Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 16, 2017, 01:49:48 PM
Quote
Question about scales.  Would a really good bathroom scale (like down to the ounce) work?  That way, I could either weigh myself, and then weigh myself holding each cat, or weigh a carrier, and then the carrier with the cat in it.  I don't think some of mine will sit still on a baby scale. 

I am not a fan of this method, though if you can tare to the carrier and get them in it while the tare is still set, that would be okay.  Seems like a lot of extra effort though.  Did you say you thought you knew someone who was giving away a baby scale?

 While many cats have to be trained to accept the weekly weigh in  it's not all that difficult. Mazy cat and Queen Eva dislike being weighed.  Jennie doesn't care.  :)

By the way do you have a food scale?
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 16, 2017, 02:19:24 PM
I am not a fan of this method, though if you can tare to the carrier and get them in it while the tare is still set, that would be okay.  Seems like a lot of extra effort though.  Did you say you thought you knew someone who was giving away a baby scale?

 While many cats have to be trained to accept the weekly weigh in  it's not all that difficult. Mazy cat and Queen Eva dislike being weighed.  Jennie doesn't care.  :)

By the way do you have a food scale?

I said I thought my housemate might be able to find someone who had one they don't need any more.  I will ask her again today.

I do have a food scale, one I can tare to.  I would have been afraid to even start this using the Alnutrin without one.

I would still love to have your bone broth instructions, or a link to the recipe you use.   
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 16, 2017, 02:51:43 PM
Shopping trip!

Went to Hollywood feed, and got BOGO on Fromm's canned cat food.  Two cases.  Not grain-free, but cheaper than Redbarn and way better than Friskies.  I am hoping this will be the last canned I must buy, but I know that is probably not terribly realistic.  I also got some goodies for the dogs:  beef tendons for both, and a new split antler for Bandit, as that is the only chew I have ever given him he won't let Lily steal from him.  We had a nice visit with a friend who runs a local cat rescue - they have adoption events there the first three Saturdays of each month - and met some very beautiful cats and kittens.

On to Sprouts.  Pork shoulder roast, skinless, boneless chicken thighs, split breasts, an eye of round roast, and three turkey necks with giblets, which I will probably cut up and give to the dogs.  I want them to eat bone if they will, and I think necks would be a good place to start.  I love how clearly the meats at Sprouts are labeled, with regard to solutions and additives.   

Ha.  As soon as I said Lily would not steal the antler, I looked up and found her on my bed with it.  Guess I need to get two next time.   ::)

Sprouts carries Bragg ACV, so I got that, too, as well as a few delicious things for the human occupants of the house.         
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 16, 2017, 07:44:02 PM
Had a bit of a setback.  I had put all of the partially baked chicken in the fridge, planning to dice it up and finish making the food today.  Felt a bit woozy after shopping, but posted anyway, then laid down for a nap.  Woke up feeling wretched.  Nasty cold, it seems, the kind that makes you feel light-headed and slow, along with all the other misery.  I've felt it coming on for a couple of days, but tried to ignore it, hoping it would go away.  Put chicken in freezer and gave the cats canned.  I think I rushed them a bit with the 50/50 canned and raw I made last night, as they ended up leaving quite a bit of it when I put it down again today.  I had some doubts about all that skin on the chicken, anyway, since Alnutrin says to used skinned meat, and will probably end up using it for the dogs, and starting fresh with the stuff I got today to make food for the cats.  I split it up into three freezer bags, so I don't have to try to use it all at once.  I guess, since I haven't added anything to it yet, that I could offer some of it to the cats as chunks with their canned food. 

I hate head colds.   :'( 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 16, 2017, 08:12:25 PM
Ugh!  Coddle yourself! Lots of fluids! xx
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on December 16, 2017, 10:25:50 PM
Ugh!  Coddle yourself! Lots of fluids! xx

And vitamin C, alternating with Zicam or Cold-Eeze.  Just be sure to take them at least 30 minutes apart, or they reduce the effectiveness of the other.  Personally, I find while Zicam is ok, Cold-Eeze is better.  The lozenges have a lousy aftertaste, but between that and the C, I can usually kick a cold out in a couple of days.  And definitely rest and hydrate to flush out the germies!
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 17, 2017, 03:10:42 PM
Regarding bone broth, I don't really follow a recipe. I put the bones in a pot with water, bring it to a simmer, dump in some ACV and let it simmer for at least 8 hours usually a bit longer.

I no longer do the 24 hours thing.

If I am using the slow cooker for time restraints, for instance if I start it in the evening, and it will cook all night, or if I start it in the morning, but need to be out and about during the day, I'll start it in the slow cooker, then when I am done with the running, or am up in the morning, I will transfer it to a stove pot, for the final few hours of simmering.

Once you start making it, you will find your own methods that work best for you, in fact you may find (as I ahve) that each time you do it is a little bit different. You'll be able to judge whether it needs to simmer longer because there is too much water (so it doens't gel) or if you need to add water and cook it a little longer, and so on.

Three key things.  The ACV is important.  The recommended amount, I think, is one tablespoon per quart of water. I kind of just dump it in now.  If I need to add water, I add more ACV.

Cook at a low simmer at least until the hardest bones (for instance chicken thigh bones) are starting to go soft on the ends (you can break them open with a little pressure)
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 17, 2017, 04:02:05 PM
Regarding bone broth, I don't really follow a recipe. I put the bones in a pot with water, bring it to a simmer, dump in some ACV and let it simmer for at least 8 hours usually a bit longer.

I no longer do the 24 hours thing.

If I am using the slow cooker for time restraints, for instance if I start it in the evening, and it will cook all night, or if I start it in the morning, but need to be out and about during the day, I'll start it in the slow cooker, then when I am done with the running, or am up in the morning, I will transfer it to a stove pot, for the final few hours of simmering.

Once you start making it, you will find your own methods that work best for you, in fact you may find (as I ahve) that each time you do it is a little bit different. You'll be able to judge whether it needs to simmer longer because there is too much water (so it doens't gel) or if you need to add water and cook it a little longer, and so on.

Three key things.  The ACV is important.  The recommended amount, I think, is one tablespoon per quart of water. I kind of just dump it in now.  If I need to add water, I add more ACV.

Cook at a low simmer at least until the hardest bones (for instance chicken thigh bones) are starting to go soft on the ends (you can break them open with a little pressure)

Thanks, a ballpark estimate was all I expected.  I don't think I added enough ACV to this first batch.  I'll check the bones, and if it needs to cook a bit longer, I'll put in some more.  It does not seem ready to gel yet.  I'm happy to hear that 24 hours isn't necessary, that was a bit daunting.  I've been simmering this for a few hours at a time, then popping it back in the refrigerator when I couldn't watch it, for a couple of days now, trying to reach the 24 hour mark.   :-[  I have a slow cooker, but I don't think it's big enough to make any kind of stock in.

Since I stashed all of the semi-cooked thigh meat and skin in the freezer yesterday (I wrote down the raw weight, so I will have it when I am ready), I started over today with some of the boned, skinned thighs I got at Sprouts yesterday.  Partially baked one lb. to cut up and add to their canned food, and am getting ready to bake two more to be diced up and mixed with the Alnutrin and bone broth.  I feel a little silly doing this, because the other meat was ready to go, but it's just more chopping and dicing than I can face right now.  Still congested, but at least not feeling light-headed with it like I was yesterday. 

I know smaller batches will be more work, or at least more frequent work, but I also kind of feel like they may be best until I learn what I am doing, so I don't waste too much if I mess up, and until I get a feel for what sort of meats my cats like best.  That way, if I find that my cats don't care for a particular protein I have gotten in quantity, I can still use it for my dogs.   

Thanks again.  I know I have been pretty persistent about this question.   
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 17, 2017, 05:23:47 PM
I must have missed it then.  I only saw your request elsewhere.  ;)

That's what I was doing before I got the "slow cooker".  It was not an efficient method. The bones really do need a steady 8 hours of simmering.  And make sure you have at least some "joint" bones.

 If it doesn't gel, after at least 8 steady hours, two things may have happened.  One may be the heat was too high...the simmer more of a boil.  This can break down the protein too much.  (I think that is what I remember reading). It's still good and nutritious, but won't gel.  The other reason would simply be there was too much water, you have to cook it longer to cook off more of the water, or start with less to begin with.

Since I make this for both myself and the cats, I make it often and have gotten pretty good at it, from my own point of view anyway.  ;D

You, with six cats and two dogs, are likely to go through it pretty quickly so may be making it more often as well.

For the cats' bone broth I portion it into tablespoon size portions into ice cube trays and once frozen, bag it up in freezer bags.

 I actually couldn't find what I wanted in a slow cooker so I had to buy an electric pressure cooker that can also be used as a slow cooker.  I wanted an 8 quart with a stainless steel cook pot.  The only way I could get it was to pay for a pressure cooker.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 18, 2017, 09:34:00 AM
Well, I mixed some real chicken with cheap canned food last night.  They ate some of it, but I ended up having to throw some out, too.  Offered some of the better canned straight during the night, but they were not hungry.

This is making me a little nervous.  They are eating, but not as much as I am used to seeing them eat, and they don't all mob me in the kitchen when they hear the cans being opened anymore.  Could this be because they are getting used to food that has less filler, and don't need as much to be satisfied?  I admit that in a moment of panic, I even offered them a little bit of dry, but they wouldn't touch it.  I started throwing most the kibble out - not just taking it away from them or putting it up, but actually putting it in the trash - yesterday, but still had some left.  I think getting rid of it altogether scares me.   :-[   I may have told this story before, but years ago (long enough that it was a whole different group of cats), I tried to switch to canned, and before I knew it, I had a rather secretive cat who, unbeknownst to me, had stopped eating altogether and ended up with fatty liver.  It took a huge vet bill and a month of tube-feeding to get her healthy again.  I know ditching kibble, and eventually all commercial food, is better for my cats, but I probably never would have worked up the courage to try again had this lot not taken a sudden dislike to what I was giving them.  Still...I get a little freaked out to this day any time a cat does not seem hungry. 

Cats are my life, but dogs are so much easier to get on real food. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 18, 2017, 01:15:32 PM
I would recommend stop mixing the foods together.  Feed them the canned and chicken separate.

I've never been a fan of mixing.

I understand your concern, but getting rid of the dry and not relying on it is a good thing.  You will know who is eating what because you are not free feeding any more.  Keep a journal and record meals, times fed, who ate, who finished, who didn't, and so on.

In my opinion, routine, consistency, is the most important thing to a cat.  Changing up on them randomly is not effective, at least, not in my point of view.  I would feed canned meals at certain times each day and the home prepared meals at certain times each day, gradually (when you are ready) increasing the number of home made meals and decreasing the canned servings.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 18, 2017, 02:18:50 PM
I would recommend stop mixing the foods together.  Feed them the canned and chicken separate.

I've never been a fan of mixing.

I understand your concern, but getting rid of the dry and not relying on it is a good thing.  You will know who is eating what because you are not free feeding any more.  Keep a journal and record meals, times fed, who ate, who finished, who didn't, and so on.

In my opinion, routine, consistency, is the most important thing to a cat.  Changing up on them randomly is not effective, at least, not in my point of view.  I would feed canned meals at certain times each day and the home prepared meals at certain times each day, gradually (when you are ready) increasing the number of home made meals and decreasing the canned servings.

Okay, I will try that.  It will be helpful, in terms of knowing who is accepting the homemade and who is more reluctant to eat it.

No question about the dry.  No one ate it anyway, in fact, one cat tried to bury it. 

I did return what I had left of the Fromm.  Something in that brand of canned did not agree with them at all.  One cat even threw up.  Got some Lotus and Weruva instead.  I have fed these before, and they were well-received.  I will make a batch of full-on homemade today, and see how they do with it, alternated with the cans. 

I am determined to see this through, it's just kind of scary sometimes, when I think they are not eating enough.   
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 18, 2017, 04:12:54 PM
Yes, that is scary!  That's why keeping a journal helps. I realize that's more commitment with 6, as opposed to 3!

Also weighing them.  If you can't get a hold of a baby scale just now, you should go ahead with the weighing yourself, weighing yourself holding them, or the carrier, method, at least.  It's better than nothing.

I think you are doing a great job!
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 18, 2017, 09:10:25 PM


I hate head colds.   :'( 

Hope you are feeling better!!

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 18, 2017, 09:17:44 PM
Quote
Question about scales.  Would a really good bathroom scale (like down to the ounce) work?  That way, I could either weigh myself, and then weigh myself holding each cat, or weigh a carrier, and then the carrier with the cat in it.  I don't think some of mine will sit still on a baby scale. 

I have the weight written on each carrier.  I use a Weight Watchers scale, with cat in carrier.  Deduct weight of carrier.  The Weight Watchers scale does give ounces.  I have weighed a cat at home, before going to the vet, and then compared the numbers.  Same with humans.  Spot on. 

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 18, 2017, 09:26:22 PM
Well, I mixed some real chicken with cheap canned food last night.  They ate some of it, but I ended up having to throw some out, too.  Offered some of the better canned straight during the night, but they were not hungry.

This is making me a little nervous.  They are eating, but not as much as I am used to seeing them eat, and they don't all mob me in the kitchen when they hear the cans being opened anymore.  Could this be because they are getting used to food that has less filler, and don't need as much to be satisfied?  I admit that in a moment of panic, I even offered them a little bit of dry, but they wouldn't touch it.  I started throwing most the kibble out - not just taking it away from them or putting it up, but actually putting it in the trash - yesterday, but still had some left.  I think getting rid of it altogether scares me.   :-[   I may have told this story before, but years ago (long enough that it was a whole different group of cats), I tried to switch to canned, and before I knew it, I had a rather secretive cat who, unbeknownst to me, had stopped eating altogether and ended up with fatty liver.  It took a huge vet bill and a month of tube-feeding to get her healthy again.  I know ditching kibble, and eventually all commercial food, is better for my cats, but I probably never would have worked up the courage to try again had this lot not taken a sudden dislike to what I was giving them.  Still...I get a little freaked out to this day any time a cat does not seem hungry. 

Cats are my life, but dogs are so much easier to get on real food. 

Raw will definitely be more satisfying!  No fillers.
On AVERAGE, my cats eat 5 oz a day each, divided into 3 meals.  BUT you want to weigh them all OFTEN, so no one loses any kibble fat - if they are over-weight - too quickly.  Some were fed more, when I first started out. 
Previous bad experiences tend to affect our future thoughts and actions.  You are normal.  :) 
I won't let a cat go more then 24 hours of not having food.  In fact, if one skips ONE meal (or even picks at a meal)... my radar goes off.
Are you feeding meals?  I mean... each of mine have their own plate.  I know exactly who is eating what and how much. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 18, 2017, 09:28:13 PM
Yes, that is scary!  That's why keeping a journal helps. I realize that's more commitment with 6, as opposed to 3!

Also weighing them.  If you can't get a hold of a baby scale just now, you should go ahead with the weighing yourself, weighing yourself holding them, or the carrier, method, at least.  It's better than nothing.

I think you are doing a great job!

Agree to ALLLLLLLL the above!!   thumbsup1 thumbsup1
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 19, 2017, 05:27:58 AM
I have the weight written on each carrier.  I use a Weight Watchers scale, with cat in carrier.  Deduct weight of carrier.  The Weight Watchers scale does give ounces.  I have weighed a cat at home, before going to the vet, and then compared the numbers.  Same with humans.  Spot on.

This is a good idea.  I think I'm going to go with a new, better bathroom scale, rather than a baby scale, as we need one, anyway. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 19, 2017, 05:37:49 AM
Raw will definitely be more satisfying!  No fillers.
On AVERAGE, my cats eat 5 oz a day each, divided into 3 meals.  BUT you want to weigh them all OFTEN, so no one loses any kibble fat - if they are over-weight - too quickly.  Some were fed more, when I first started out. 
Previous bad experiences tend to affect our future thoughts and actions.  You are normal.  :) 
I won't let a cat go more then 24 hours of not having food.  In fact, if one skips ONE meal (or even picks at a meal)... my radar goes off.
Are you feeding meals?  I mean... each of mine have their own plate.  I know exactly who is eating what and how much.

The fattest cats have already lost weight in the months since I took them off Science Diet.  A couple of them are still a little heavier than I would like, but nothing like they were. 

I think part of the problem is that I am having a hard time wrapping my head around just how small an amount 5 oz. is, divided by three. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 19, 2017, 05:39:02 AM
The fattest cats have already lost weight in the months since I took them off Science Diet.  A couple of them are still a little heavier than I would like, but nothing like they were. 

I think part of the problem is that I am having a hard time wrapping my head around just how small an amount 5 oz. is, divided by three.

Trying to do meals, but probably leaving them down too long, again, out of fear.  I've tried giving each cat a plate, but they end up moving around and getting into each other's food no matter what I do. 

Ugh, this was supposed to be added to the last post, not a new one.  Sorry, any way to fix?
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 19, 2017, 06:05:59 AM
It's fine the way it is, no need to blend the posts.

 If possible I would recommend gradually separating their feeding places.  I know that will be difficult with 6.  But when each cat has his or her own spot, they tend to stay in the spot.  At least, that's been my experience.

it's a lot of changes you are making so don't panic! There is no rush. Things do tend to work out as you go along.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 19, 2017, 07:07:27 PM
Picked out a scale that I think will work well.  It's a postal scale (thank you, Lola!), and I can place a carrier on it without worrying that the display will be hidden, because it is not on the platform itself.

https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Weigh-Digital-Shipping-Postal/dp/B00I9D5IFM/ref=nav_ya_signin?s=office-products&rps=1&ie=UTF8&qid=1513728321&sr=1-3&keywords=postal+scale&refinements=p_85%3A2470955011&

Should be here in a couple of days.  I will let you all know how I like it. 

Totally OT, but I would ask for prayers from all who pray, for my housemate.  She is 78 and has a nasty cold in her chest, with a temp.  She will probably be okay, but it is still scary.  She is a second mom to me.   




Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: DeeDee on December 19, 2017, 07:56:35 PM

Totally OT, but I would ask for prayers from all who pray, for my housemate.  She is 78 and has a nasty cold in her chest, with a temp.  She will probably be okay, but it is still scary.  She is a second mom to me.   


I'll be praying for her. Make sure she gets tested for flu. Some we personally know have already tested positive here in Northern Mid-Tenn, and TN wasn't on the flu-map last time I looked at it.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 20, 2017, 04:47:30 AM
Congratulations on choosing a scale!  That is convenient having the display separate since you are using the carrier!

All paws crossed for your housemate. GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 20, 2017, 06:15:26 AM
I am absolutely frantic.  No one is eating as much as before, very little, in fact, and Lucy won't eat anything.  She's also not acting like her normal, vocal self.  I have tried everything.  I have offered homemade, canned, I even went out and got some ACANA dry, and opened a can of salmon.  She will not eat at all, and nobody else is eating much, either.  They didn't want much Monday, but I figured it was because the new food satisfied them more, but yesterday was much worse.   

Lucy will have to go to the vet.  Hopefully she will be the only one.

I am wondering what I've done wrong.  They always have fresh water, I haven't made anyone wait too long between meals.  I still plan to stick with this, but right now I am terrified.  She won't even eat any Temptations.

I know that better food is the right thing for them, but right now, I am so worried about them, and worried about my housemate, too, that I wish they had just kept eating what they were getting to begin with, but there's no going back, because, as I already mentioned, they won't eat that, either.

I don't know what to do right now. 



 

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 20, 2017, 06:40:21 AM
I am just leaving for work but saw your post as I was about to shut down.  One thing you need to remember is that cats are emotional barometers.  You are freaking out, which, in turn causes them to freak out.

Can you go out for a walk, and try to calm down.

Stop offering so many options of food.

Choose one thing, canned? dish it out into a few plates and put it down and leave it.  Somewhere the dogs can't get at it. Then go out for a while.

No dry.

Have you made the bone broth yet?

Please forgive me for asking, but I wonder if your housemate is sneaking them some kind of food behind your back.

This is all I have time for now, but I am thinking of you and them xxxxxx
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: DeeDee on December 20, 2017, 10:04:43 AM
I'm so sorry to hear that, Catgirl. Maybe MC, Pookie, or Lola will have some hints for you. You KNOW the vet is going to blame it on "raw" food though. Right? Be prepared for that and to be told you need "this prescription diet" for whatever reason.

Make sure to STRESS that they started going off their food BEFORE you decided to go back to real food for them.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 20, 2017, 11:27:49 AM
I am just leaving for work but saw your post as I was about to shut down.  One thing you need to remember is that cats are emotional barometers.  You are freaking out, which, in turn causes them to freak out.

Can you go out for a walk, and try to calm down.

Stop offering so many options of food.

Choose one thing, canned? dish it out into a few plates and put it down and leave it.  Somewhere the dogs can't get at it. Then go out for a while.

No dry.

Have you made the bone broth yet?

Please forgive me for asking, but I wonder if your housemate is sneaking them some kind of food behind your back.

This is all I have time for now, but I am thinking of you and them xxxxxx

Trying to take my mind off it.  I can't really leave, because my housemate is sick in bed, and may need me.  No way is she sneaking them anything.  She would not sabotage what I'm trying to do, even if she's not interested in doing it herself.

Okay, I'll take away everything but canned, and see what happens.  I have to get them to eat something today.  I don't care what. 

I made the bone broth, it's in the refrigerator.  I hope it's still okay to use.  I thought it tasted awful.  I guess because of no salt. 

Got interrupted writing this.  Housemate called for ambulance and has gone to the hospital.  It's probably better, I think she needs to be on fluids.  I feel bad not going with her, but there's a bad bug going around here, and I do not want it.  One of us has to stay well. 

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: DeeDee on December 20, 2017, 12:21:49 PM

I made the bone broth, it's in the refrigerator.  I hope it's still okay to use.  I thought it tasted awful.  I guess because of no salt. 

Got interrupted writing this.  Housemate called for ambulance and has gone to the hospital.  It's probably better, I think she needs to be on fluids.  I feel bad not going with her, but there's a bad bug going around here, and I do not want it.  One of us has to stay well. 



Bone broth and grass-fed beef gelatin always taste awful to me. The dogs love both of them though. They like gelatin cubes in summer. If I have any, I use the bloody liquid that runs out of their meat in it.

It seems to be some strain other than what was in the flu shots this year. The people we know that have the flu had the shot back in October. This flu map I saw in FB last night is better than the CDC weekly one. You can actually put in your zipcode and get information back:

http://www.mucinex.com/cold-and-flu-map/
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 20, 2017, 12:50:42 PM
Bone broth and grass-fed beef gelatin always taste awful to me. The dogs love both of them though. They like gelatin cubes in summer. If I have any, I use the bloody liquid that runs out of their meat in it.

It seems to be some strain other than what was in the flu shots this year. The people we know that have the flu had the shot back in October. This flu map I saw in FB last night is better than the CDC weekly one. You can actually put in your zipcode and get information back:

http://www.mucinex.com/cold-and-flu-map/

She had the shot, she always gets it, but I've heard it's not terribly effective this year, and she was at an anniversary party Saturday night that was wall-to-wall people.  Moderate to severe in our county. 

Good to know that flavor isn't how you judge bone broth.  If it was, I'd be tossing this batch.   :-[

Update:  Just got a call from J.  Flu.  They told her the shot was only about 10% effective this year. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 20, 2017, 01:09:19 PM
Oh my gosh! No wonder you are feeling so stressed!  Is there any change since this morning, regarding the cats eating?

 I am, again, in a rush, only home for lunch and checking in for updates.

You mentioned the other day you had a cold, so it really wouldn't be a good idea for you to go to the hospital anyway.

How is Lucy?  Have you tried hand feeding?

I don't know what to say about the bone broth.  I always think the cats' broth is delicious, plain as it is.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 20, 2017, 01:17:19 PM
Oh my gosh! No wonder you are feeling so stressed!  Is there any change since this morning, regarding the cats eating?

 I am, again, in a rush, only home for lunch and checking in for updates.

You mentioned the other day you had a cold, so it really wouldn't be a good idea for you to go to the hospital anyway.

How is Lucy?  Have you tried hand feeding?

I don't know what to say about the bone broth.  I always think the cats' broth is delicious, plain as it is.

Lucy is still a little quiet - not acting sick at all, just not her usual talkative self - but she apparently did eat something when I was not looking, because she just pooped.  She is not interested in being hand-fed.  I've never had a cat that was.

I probably over-boiled the broth.  Is it still safe, do you think?  It's cloudy, but I think that is from the skin.  I don't think I should have put that in there. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 20, 2017, 03:31:16 PM
I think the skin is fine, the fat is good for them.My bone broth is cloudy too. It may be the start and stop why you cooked it has affected the flavor, but I really don't know.  Did it gel?

How is everyone tonight?  Have they eaten? Are you feeling any better, less stressed?
You'll feel better when you have the scale, because when you monitor their weight you will know for sure if they are getting enough.

Any news on your housemate?
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 20, 2017, 07:48:07 PM
You may want to join a raw group for a wider range of help.

I recommend this one:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/grouprawpet/?ref=bookmarks
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on December 20, 2017, 09:31:15 PM
Just out of curiosity, is Lucy "close" to your roommate?  Or maybe more sensitive to what's going on with the humans in the household than the other kitties?  I'm just wondering if maybe she was sensing your roommate's illness and the stress was affecting her in some way.

MC gave you a lot of good advice, esp. about cats being emotional barometers.  If I was stressed, Pookie was stressed (including barfing if I was really worked up about something  :().  Over time, I caught on that he was sensitive to my stress and had force myself to talk in a cheery voice, even if I didn't feel that way.  I think it helped, and it might even have helped me to calm down a bit, because it's hard (at least for me) to talk in a perky voice when you're upset without it eventually easing your mood.  So as hard as it is, try talking in a normal voice, or whatever voice you usually use with them, and try to stick with your usual routine.  Play music that soothes you.  Bringing your tension down might help all of you.  It certainly won't hurt.

You have a lot going on, trying to switch them to raw, finding a scale to use, a sick roommate . . . all of these things may be affecting you more than you realize, and they may be picking up on that.  Which, if you're like me, adds to the stress (oh no, I'm stressing so now they're stressing . . .)  Deep breaths, soothing music, stick to your routine . . . things like that a worth shot.  And they may have been picking up on your roomie's stress (from being sick) as well.

Keep telling yourself:  everything's ok.  Everything's ok.  Everything's ok . . . .

Sending purrs . . . GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 21, 2017, 03:24:22 AM
I think the skin is fine, the fat is good for them.My bone broth is cloudy too. It may be the start and stop why you cooked it has affected the flavor, but I really don't know.  Did it gel?

How is everyone tonight?  Have they eaten? Are you feeling any better, less stressed?
You'll feel better when you have the scale, because when you monitor their weight you will know for sure if they are getting enough.

Any news on your housemate?

It gelled.  Could be stop and start, but I have often done this with stock I made for myself, and never had a problem with it.  Probably less skin and fat in that, though, and it's often made with what's left from a roasted bird.  The last time I made stock for myself, I used no skin at all, and it was crystal-clear for the first time ever, so I suspect that.

They've nibbled, but seem to be okay.  The scale will help a lot, I think.

I'm still stressed, but relieved that J is in good hands, so maybe less stressed?  I talked to her a couple of times yesterday, but not for long, as she didn't feel up to it.  She probably should have gone to the doctor Monday, but she thought she could just ride it out.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 21, 2017, 03:43:03 AM
Just out of curiosity, is Lucy "close" to your roommate?  Or maybe more sensitive to what's going on with the humans in the household than the other kitties?  I'm just wondering if maybe she was sensing your roommate's illness and the stress was affecting her in some way.

MC gave you a lot of good advice, esp. about cats being emotional barometers.  If I was stressed, Pookie was stressed (including barfing if I was really worked up about something  :().  Over time, I caught on that he was sensitive to my stress and had force myself to talk in a cheery voice, even if I didn't feel that way.  I think it helped, and it might even have helped me to calm down a bit, because it's hard (at least for me) to talk in a perky voice when you're upset without it eventually easing your mood.  So as hard as it is, try talking in a normal voice, or whatever voice you usually use with them, and try to stick with your usual routine.  Play music that soothes you.  Bringing your tension down might help all of you.  It certainly won't hurt.

You have a lot going on, trying to switch them to raw, finding a scale to use, a sick roommate . . . all of these things may be affecting you more than you realize, and they may be picking up on that.  Which, if you're like me, adds to the stress (oh no, I'm stressing so now they're stressing . . .)  Deep breaths, soothing music, stick to your routine . . . things like that a worth shot.  And they may have been picking up on your roomie's stress (from being sick) as well.

Keep telling yourself:  everything's ok.  Everything's ok.  Everything's ok . . . .

Sending purrs . . . GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1

No, no particular attachment between Lucy and housemate.  I would say she's mostly indifferent.  She's polite to her - all of my cats are - but they are definitely my cats.  I do have one, Jeoffry, who is very sensitive to the needs of others, but he doesn't stress over anything, he just cuddles whoever needs cuddling.  He is seriously the friendliest, most laid-back cat I have ever seen.

Honestly, I think all of this started when I brought home some canned food that, for some reason, they just could not tolerate.  It has been returned and replaced. 

I'm still nervous, but am starting to think that they will probably be okay. 

As for how it is all affecting me, I know it is.  I already have some things going on - depression and anxiety - that make me particularly susceptible to worry.  The cats normally are a wonderful antidote for both, but I am always acutely aware of being responsible for their well-being, and any hint that I am failing in that regard is a bit overwhelming.   
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 21, 2017, 04:41:09 AM
 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 21, 2017, 04:48:19 AM
Update.

Just had a call from J's nurse.  She had a fall, but fortunately a CNA was with her and was able to catch her and help lower her to the floor.  She was not injured, thank God.  She is still weak, but her bloodwork is good.  She will probably need to be in hospital another night or two.  Trying to make a good supply of cat food in advance, as my hands will be very full when she comes home.  Probably going to order more Redbarn, too, just in case.  It seems to be their favorite brand. 


Not an update, just a story from yesterday.

They do not hold back around here when you call for an ambulance.  First to arrive were two first responders in what looked like a mini fire truck.  Then the ambulance with three EMTs, accompanied by a police officer who, I do not kid, was 6'8" tall (I asked, when I noticed that is head barely fit under the doorway).  I have no idea why - this is a very safe neighborhood.  Perhaps he was bored.  That was all pretty stressful, too, as J was still in the bathroom and not dressed when the first responders arrived, and I had to ask them to wait while I helped her.  I was so afraid they would get mad about that, and then when a police officer showed up with the EMTs, all I could think was, why are you here, what's wrong?  A cop, for the flu?   
   

 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 21, 2017, 04:51:01 AM
Hug1 Hug1 Hug1

Thanks, I needed that.   HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 21, 2017, 09:36:06 AM
Thinking of you, your furkids, AND your friend.   grouphug
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 21, 2017, 04:17:20 PM
Ugh.  It got me, too.  Temp. 100.1, very woozy.  Cats seem better today. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: DeeDee on December 21, 2017, 04:18:52 PM
See if you can get some Tamiflu within the first 48 hours.

And check Pookie's list for me here:

http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?topic=5507.msg41276
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 21, 2017, 05:03:06 PM
See if you can get some Tamiflu within the first 48 hours.

And check Pookie's list for me here:

http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?topic=5507.msg41276

Probably too late for Tamiflu.  I think this is what I thought was a cold the other day.  I'll see if we have anything on the list and take it if we do, but honestly, if we don't, I'll just have to live with it.  I do not feel comfortable driving feeling this light-headed.  In fact, I've spoken with J, and if I am no better tomorrow morning, we will have to find another way for her to get home, although they may be willing to keep her for another day, which would be even better.  If they are taking care of her, I can rest and take care of myself. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 21, 2017, 05:04:42 PM
Glad to hear cats are doing better.  And your friend.  Your turn!
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on December 21, 2017, 06:23:29 PM
One thing I forgot to add on the list:  hydrate, hydrate, hydrate!  And rest (as much as possible).

P.S.  Chicken soup (or bone broth  :D) would also help.  And a probiotic if you have any at home.  Those are helpful even if you're not sick.

HangInThere GoodVibes GoodVibes CatPurr  HeadButt HeadButt :-* :-* Hug1
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 22, 2017, 07:34:19 AM
How is everything Catgirl?  Are the cats all eating again? All canned, or have you tried again with the homemade?
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 22, 2017, 10:51:53 AM
How is everything Catgirl?  Are the cats all eating again? All canned, or have you tried again with the homemade?

Better than they were.  I admit I did give them a little bit of ACANA dry last night.  I know that's bad, but I was so nauseous I couldn't bear the smell of any food, cat or human, and didn't want to throw up all over their dinner, and I had to give them something.   :-[   It won't become a habit, it's the bribe food I got in desperation the other day - 3 12 oz. bags.  They nibbled at it, enough to keep me from panicking, but I don't expect any real setbacks in terms of their holding out for it again.  I just opened some canned for them a few minutes ago, and they are eating it.  All I have the energy for.  Thank goodness, J found another ride home from the hospital, so I won't have to go out in the rain - weather here is horrid right now.  My scale is supposed to arrive today, and the Redbarn and green-lipped mussel powder I ordered is expected tomorrow.  I have some homemade ready to go in the freezer, but do not want to let my stash of canned food I know they like get too low while I transition, as I suspect that is what caused all this hassle in the first place.   
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 23, 2017, 09:28:34 AM
Back on track!  Scale is here, good supply of Redbarn is here, green-lipped mussel powder is here (I will share this with J's two elderly terriers - I think it will be good for them.)  Will take out a container of homemade to thaw later. 

I am not 100% by a long shot, but I feel human today.  Lucy eating normally and chattering away again.  I was worried about Mouse yesterday, as she seemed kind of dull and depressed, but she's feeling better today, as well.  Mouse is EXTREMELY bonded to me, and I am wondering if me being so sick made her seem a little "off."  She spent most of yesterday under a side chair, but is sitting here on the arm of the recliner now, overseeing my Internet activities.   HeadButt

Felt too rotten to do anything with the scale yesterday, other than bring it in off the stoop and leave it in the box in the utility room.  Here pretty soon, I'm going to weigh everyone. 

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on December 23, 2017, 10:18:39 PM
I was worried about Mouse yesterday, as she seemed kind of dull and depressed, but she's feeling better today, as well.  Mouse is EXTREMELY bonded to me, and I am wondering if me being so sick made her seem a little "off."  She spent most of yesterday under a side chair, but is sitting here on the arm of the recliner now, overseeing my Internet activities.   HeadButt

That is VERY possible.  I'm glad she and Lucy are feeling better, and that you're feeling feeling human.   :)
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 24, 2017, 12:43:38 AM
Glad you are feeling a bit better!
I totally believe our furkids relate to how we are feeling. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 24, 2017, 10:21:05 AM
Glad you are feeling a bit better!
I totally believe our furkids relate to how we are feeling.

I think so, too.  I got Jeoffry as a young kitten, when my dad was pretty much bedridden.  That little angel barely left his side the last days of his life, and when Dad was gone, he showed the same behavior to my mother, who had Alzheimer's.  I thought for quite a while that he didn't like me very much.  He did, he just knew where he was needed more.  You don't see many people using cats as therapy animals, but I keep wondering if I should look into it for him.  I have never seen any animal so filled with love for all fellow creatures.   


Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on December 24, 2017, 12:52:53 PM
You don't see many people using cats as therapy animals, but I keep wondering if I should look into it for him.  I have never seen any animal so filled with love for all fellow creatures.   

Check this out:  http://www.naturalawakeningsmag.com/Natural-Pet-Archive/Feline-Workforce/

Quote
Therapists
At the University of California Medical Center in San Francisco, Duke Ellington Morris visits with patients while nurses check vital signs; he’s part of an animal-assisted therapy program through the city’s Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.

With the help of his humans, Jessica and Eric Hagan, of Pennsylvania’s Wolf Creek Township, Draven was certified through a local Love on a Leash chapter that qualifies pet-provided therapy animals. He showed My Cat From Hell host Jackson Galaxy his hospital routine for a segment called “My Cat From Heaven.” Draven regularly visits the Grove City Medical Center, in Pine Township, local nursing homes and service groups.

I will warn you, though, that I've heard dogs that are raw-fed are not permitted to be therapy dogs, due to concerns about transmitting the bacteria from their food (of course, the recalls of kibble due to bacteria, fungus, etc. are totally ignored), so it wouldn't surprise me if that also applies to cats.  :( >:(
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: DeeDee on December 24, 2017, 03:11:31 PM
Check this out:  http://www.naturalawakeningsmag.com/Natural-Pet-Archive/Feline-Workforce/

I will warn you, though, that I've heard dogs that are raw-fed are not permitted to be therapy dogs, due to concerns about transmitting the bacteria from their food (of course, the recalls of kibble due to bacteria, fungus, etc. are totally ignored), so it wouldn't surprise me if that also applies to cats.  :( >:(

Nope. Delta Society won't allow raw fed animals. However, the AKC has a huge list of therapy groups that might allow it. I'm just not going to go through them all to find out:

http://www.akc.org/events/title-recognition-program/therapy/organizations/ (http://www.akc.org/events/title-recognition-program/therapy/organizations/)

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 24, 2017, 09:46:20 PM
Check this out:  http://www.naturalawakeningsmag.com/Natural-Pet-Archive/Feline-Workforce/

I will warn you, though, that I've heard dogs that are raw-fed are not permitted to be therapy dogs, due to concerns about transmitting the bacteria from their food (of course, the recalls of kibble due to bacteria, fungus, etc. are totally ignored), so it wouldn't surprise me if that also applies to cats.  :( >:(

I hadn't thought of that, but I bet you are right.  I suspect they probably demand more vaccinations than I am willing to subject him to, as well.  I am not a fan of giving pets every available shot at every possible opportunity.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on December 25, 2017, 09:11:33 AM
I suspect they probably demand more vaccinations than I am willing to subject him to, as well.  I am not a fan of giving pets every available shot at every possible opportunity.

 HeadButt HeadButt :-* :-* DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

Right there with ya.   :)
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 25, 2017, 02:39:59 PM
Offered straight home-made this morning for breakfast.  Everyone ate!  Not enough to do away with canned, but they all ate!  Wheeeeee!!!

I like the advice I was given to stop mixing the two together.  That makes it hard to tell how much of the homemade they are actually eating. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on December 25, 2017, 02:41:19 PM
multistars multistars multistars
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 26, 2017, 01:40:47 AM
Okay, so here is a starting point for everyone, as I weighed them all yesterday before breakfast.  I put the a box on the scale, set for tare, and then got each cat to sit in the box.

Jeoffry - 15 lb., 12.2 oz.

Jennyanydots - 12 lb., about 5 oz. (This is as close a guess as I have, as she HATES being picked up, and would not sit still in the box.  I will have to do the carrier thing with her, I think.)

Truman - 15 lb., 15.4 oz.

Lucy - 7 l., 10 oz.

Violet - 7 lb., 2 oz.

Mouse - 7 lb., 13.2 oz.

Jeoffry and Truman each weighed over 18 lb. last time they were at the vet, and Jenny was close to that.  I attribute most of the weight loss simply to doing away with Science Diet last January.  I don't like any kibble, but some is worse than others, and that stuff is awful.  The boys still have a way to go.  Jenny should probably lose a bit more - I'm not sure how much - as well, but mostly, I would like to see her gain muscle tone.  I think she will - she is moving around a lot more now.  I would love to know what the ideal weight is for these three.  They all have fairly long, fluffy coats, so it's not a matter of just looking at them to see if their bodies seem fit.  If I remember correctly, the vet said something about 12 lb., at least for Truman and Jeoffry, but I'm a little skeptical, particularly about Truman.  He is a big-boned cat, with great big paws, and I think getting him down to 12 would be pushing it.  It might be a little more on-target for Jeoffry.   I'm probably going to just feed the cats good food, the right kind, and trust them to know how much they need to eat.  After all, the weight they have lost so far was not the result of anything I did, other than changing the KIND of food.     

I would actually like to see Lucy gain a bit.  She is the one I was most worried about last week when no one wanted to eat - she seemed a little too thin.  Her appetite is back in full force now, and she seems to really like the homemade diet.  She had actually gotten a little chubby on SD, but was pretty close to normal until the no-eating episode.

Violet could stand to gain a few ounces (actually, I think she has, since going to canned: she's the first one I noticed turning her nose up at kibble), but I'm okay with it if she does not.  She isn't scrawny, just very slim.  She has always been a slender, dainty cat - think Oriental Shorthair-type build.

Mouse, as small as she is, is a plump little thing, even at her current weight.  Not fat, just not svelte.  Mouse got her name because she was such a tiny kitten.   

Jenny will be the most challenging to work with.  She is a shy cat, and would prefer to eat alone, but resents being put in another room.  Plus, she prefers to eat on the floor, which means I must put the dogs up at mealtimes.  As difficult a case as she is, she's come a long way.  She went through a phase a few months ago when she refused to come out from under my chair at all, except to eat and use the litter box, especially if Truman was in the room.  Now, she comes out and relaxes even with him here, and she even defended her little perch on a side chair from Violet the other day.  I am very proud of her.  Still, she doesn't really enjoy the company of other animals, and she is the one cat I would consider parting with if someone I knew was a good pet parent asked to adopt her and let her be an only cat.  :(  She has always been this way.  She is not even attached to Jeoffry, who is her brother and littermate.  When I got her, I had a big white cat called Kimchee, who was nine at the time, and he took her under his wing.  They were quite bonded, but Kimchee died in 2012.  Since most people who have the level of devotion I would expect already have a cat, it looks like we'll have to muddle through together.  Fortunately, she is improving, and I expect to see more improvements as I move to raw.  I wonder sometimes if kibble affects cats the way too much sugar does kids, creating behavioral issues along with obvious physical ones.   

Everyone got homemade for breakfast, canned for lunch, which was their largest meal, and homemade again for dinner.  Will repeat this schedule tomorrow, and start making another batch of raw.   
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 26, 2017, 04:58:16 AM
Great updates, thanks! bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 28, 2017, 07:29:41 AM
Well, my first batch of homemade is gone.  It was only 2lbs. of chicken's worth, and I relied on canned more than I intended to, not because of the cats, but because getting over the flu has been more of a battle than expected.  The worst symptoms are gone, the lethargy is a gift that keeps on giving.  All of the cats are accepting the new food, and I'm ready to start increasing the amount they get, relative to canned. 

Last night I chopped up some lean beef roast I had thawed out for them, and will be mixing the food shortly.  I've also taken out more chicken to thaw to surface bake and cut up today, and a pork roast in the refrigerator that will take at least a couple of days to thaw out.  The first batch of chicken I cut off the bone is still in the freezer.  Still not quite up to dealing with that.  I have a feeling I will end up using it for the dogs, as I think they will be more accepting of both chunks and skin.  Their base mixes are supposed to arrive today.

I am still impressed and delighted by how much less they are pooping!
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 28, 2017, 03:30:54 PM
Sounds like you are doing a GREAT job! 
I get the impression you "beat yourself up" when you feed canned.  If you are.... STOP!  :)
Go at a pace that is good for you, your circumstances, and the furkids. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 28, 2017, 04:39:56 PM
Sounds like you are doing a GREAT job! 
I get the impression you "beat yourself up" when you feed canned.  If you are.... STOP!  :)
Go at a pace that is good for you, your circumstances, and the furkids.

I'm not really beating myself up so much as irritated that the flu was such a setback, in terms of my own role in this process, and yeah, maybe feeling bad that I have probably pampered myself more than I really needed to.  The canned doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fact that I feel like I just got lazy, and that every time I dip into my stash of good canned food, I'm wasting money that could be better spent on healthy meats.  I will probably always keep a bit of canned around for emergencies, times I know I won't be able to take up leftover raw quickly enough to feel comfortable about it, and plain old user error, like forgetting to take food out of the freezer.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 28, 2017, 04:40:18 PM
Well, my first batch of homemade is gone.  It was only 2lbs. of chicken's worth, and I relied on canned more than I intended to, not because of the cats, but because getting over the flu has been more of a battle than expected.  The worst symptoms are gone, the lethargy is a gift that keeps on giving.  All of the cats are accepting the new food, and I'm ready to start increasing the amount they get, relative to canned. 

Last night I chopped up some lean beef roast I had thawed out for them, and will be mixing the food shortly.  I've also taken out more chicken to thaw to surface bake and cut up today, and a pork roast in the refrigerator that will take at least a couple of days to thaw out.  The first batch of chicken I cut off the bone is still in the freezer.  Still not quite up to dealing with that.  I have a feeling I will end up using it for the dogs, as I think they will be more accepting of both chunks and skin.  Their base mixes are supposed to arrive today.

I am still impressed and delighted by how much less they are pooping!


 BanWooHoo bananamiddlechild multistars tootgif  DrLisaPiersonWorthy

Sounds like you are doing a GREAT job! 
I get the impression you "beat yourself up" when you feed canned.  If you are.... STOP!  :)
Go at a pace that is good for you, your circumstances, and the furkids. 



What she said

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 28, 2017, 04:41:47 PM
I'm not really beating myself up so much as irritated that the flu was such a setback, in terms of my own role in this process, and yeah, maybe feeling bad that I have probably pampered myself more than I really needed to.


Not possible.  Flu will relapse if you don't take care and allow the lethargy to go away naturally.  Do not ever push yourself, when you feel like that.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: DeeDee on December 28, 2017, 05:37:06 PM
I will probably always keep a bit of canned around for emergencies, times I know I won't be able to take up leftover raw quickly enough to feel comfortable about it, and plain old user error, like forgetting to take food out of the freezer.

You're forgetting the zombie apocalypse.  :D I keep stuff around just because we're a tornado magnet here.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on December 28, 2017, 09:36:41 PM
Well, my first batch of homemade is gone.  It was only 2lbs. of chicken's worth, and I relied on canned more than I intended to, not because of the cats, but because getting over the flu has been more of a battle than expected.  The worst symptoms are gone, the lethargy is a gift that keeps on giving.  All of the cats are accepting the new food, and I'm ready to start increasing the amount they get, relative to canned. 

If you can, meaning if your financial situation permits . . . take a vitamin B complex, and if you are already, take one in the morning and one at noon/with lunch.  B's are good for energy.  It's going to take time, and like MC said, you have to be careful.  There's no such thing as "pampering oneself too much."  Esp. when it comes to the flu.  And keep taking vitamin C and zinc, if you can.

Sounds like you are doing a GREAT job! 
I get the impression you "beat yourself up" when you feed canned.  If you are.... STOP!  :)
Go at a pace that is good for you, your circumstances, and the furkids. 

 DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

You're doing great, Catgirl!   HeadButt HeadButt
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 29, 2017, 07:58:51 AM
Well, it appears that lean beef is a less popular menu item than chicken thigh.  Most tasted it, Mouse likes it okay, Violet seems to as well, Jenny won't touch it.  Nobody seems to love it.  Taking up leftovers to mix into the dogs' food so it gets eaten while it is still reasonably fresh.  I will probably try offering it again in small amounts later. 

Thanks to all of you for your encouragement.  It means a lot. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 29, 2017, 08:31:24 AM
Well, it appears that lean beef is a less popular menu item than chicken thigh.  Most tasted it, Mouse likes it okay, Violet seems to as well, Jenny won't touch it.  Nobody seems to love it.  Taking up leftovers to mix into the dogs' food so it gets eaten while it is still reasonably fresh.  I will probably try offering it again in small amounts later. 

Thanks to all of you for your encouragement.  It means a lot. 

Was the lean beef ground beef?  Just asking because.... I don't buy anything from the grocery store that is already ground.  Although I was tempted to buy some ground bison yesterday, for Lacy dog.  It was 10.99 a pound though.  I could take her to a nice restaurant for that amount of money!   Silly7
My Roxy barfs all beef, so none of the cats get it.  Just keeps things simple for me.  Although I haven't tried it in a while... maybe I should give it another try one of these days. 
Having a dog that eats and tolerates everything, definitely made the transition to raw MUCH easier... no waste.   Silly7

PS  I also have a few cats that don't do well eating grocery store chicken... thighs, breasts, whole... nothing.  Kinda weird.  So it has also been removed from the menu. 

At one time, I belonged to a raw feeding group in another country.  They feed EVERYTHING... roadkill comes to mind.  Their furkids all seem to do fine.   :-\ 

Just throwing out some of my experiences... that may or may not help you.   ;D
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 29, 2017, 03:35:20 PM
Was the lean beef ground beef?  Just asking because.... I don't buy anything from the grocery store that is already ground.  Although I was tempted to buy some ground bison yesterday, for Lacy dog.  It was 10.99 a pound though.  I could take her to a nice restaurant for that amount of money!   Silly7
My Roxy barfs all beef, so none of the cats get it.  Just keeps things simple for me.  Although I haven't tried it in a while... maybe I should give it another try one of these days. 
Having a dog that eats and tolerates everything, definitely made the transition to raw MUCH easier... no waste.   Silly7

PS  I also have a few cats that don't do well eating grocery store chicken... thighs, breasts, whole... nothing.  Kinda weird.  So it has also been removed from the menu. 

At one time, I belonged to a raw feeding group in another country.  They feed EVERYTHING... roadkill comes to mind.  Their furkids all seem to do fine.   :-\ 

Just throwing out some of my experiences... that may or may not help you.   ;D

Not ground.  It was a small roast that I diced by hand.  I'm taking the advice I've seen almost everywhere, and avoiding ground anything from the grocery store. 

Tried my food processor to prepare the chicken thighs.  It worked, what a relief!  I HATE dicing that stuff by hand, and I think it will mix better with the Alnutrin, too.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 29, 2017, 05:01:53 PM
 HeadButt
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 29, 2017, 05:45:18 PM
Not ground. It was a small roast that I diced by hand.  I'm taking the advice I've seen almost everywhere, and avoiding ground anything from the grocery store. 

Tried my food processor to prepare the chicken thighs.  It worked, what a relief!  I HATE dicing that stuff by hand, and I think it will mix better with the Alnutrin, too.

I'll likely forget and mention it again.   Silly7
If you are every bored  Silly7 get a picture of the meat, after it has been through the food processor.... I'm curious about the consistency. 

Also, if you don't come up with an avatar for your profile... I'll have to give you one.   :P
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 29, 2017, 05:55:41 PM
I'll likely forget and mention it again.   Silly7
If you are every bored  Silly7 get a picture of the meat, after it has been through the food processor.... I'm curious about the consistency. 

Also, if you don't come up with an avatar for your profile... I'll have to give you one.   :P

I'll try, but visuals are not my forte.  I don't even know how to send a photo via text message.   :-[  That's why I haven't posted any pictures of the kids.  The consistency is not exactly like ground, it's more like pre-chewed, if that makes sense.  I was right about one thing:  it mixes together better.  The hand-minced stuff ended up with the Alnutrin and water being sort of like a gravy.  This is closer to what canned pate cat food looks like when it's finished.

If you can find a good avatar for me, please do it.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 29, 2017, 06:02:28 PM
Your explanation makes sense... I can "see" it.  :)

Quote
  If you can find a good avatar for me, please do it.
I didn't say it would be a good one.   >:D
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 29, 2017, 06:25:53 PM
Your explanation makes sense... I can "see" it.  :)
I didn't say it would be a good one.   >:D

Uh, oh.   :o
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: DeeDee on December 29, 2017, 06:47:33 PM

I didn't say it would be a good one.   >:D

There are some choice Manga ones here: https://www.google.com/search?q=cat+girl&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS769US769&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiM8OqQwbDYAhVE7SYKHRGHARQQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=675#imgrc=UjhDPsHnmE5JrM: (https://www.google.com/search?q=cat+girl&rlz=1C1CHBD_enUS769US769&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiM8OqQwbDYAhVE7SYKHRGHARQQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=675#imgrc=UjhDPsHnmE5JrM:)

 >:D I'm kind of partial to:

https://www.daz3d.com/catgirl-genesis
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 29, 2017, 07:09:46 PM
Those look kinda creepy to me.  BUT if CatGirl wants one of them... I can do it. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: DeeDee on December 29, 2017, 07:27:08 PM
Those look kinda creepy to me.  BUT if CatGirl wants one of them... I can do it. 

LOL. I was just yanking her chain. But, hey! If it floats her boat. My granddaughter draws a lot of Manga.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on December 29, 2017, 07:46:35 PM
I'll try, but visuals are not my forte.  I don't even know how to send a photo via text message.   :-[  That's why I haven't posted any pictures of the kids.  The consistency is not exactly like ground, it's more like pre-chewed, if that makes sense.  I was right about one thing:  it mixes together better.  The hand-minced stuff ended up with the Alnutrin and water being sort of like a gravy.  This is closer to what canned pate cat food looks like when it's finished.

If you can find a good avatar for me, please do it.

Oh dear, be careful! I've seen lola's "if you don't get an avatar I'll give you one" avatars!  funny2
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 29, 2017, 08:12:55 PM
I'll take a chance, but I do have to say that a Manga avatar would make me appear to be much younger and cooler than I actually am.   Silly7
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on December 30, 2017, 08:56:33 PM
I'll try, but visuals are not my forte.  I don't even know how to send a photo via text message.   :-[  That's why I haven't posted any pictures of the kids. 

I can't, either, but that's partially because I don't have data on my cell.  I do have a digital camera, which I can then upload to my computer and email.  Is that an option for you?

Or maybe Lola can use that cool painting that her daughter made as your avatar.   :D
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 30, 2017, 09:17:25 PM

Or maybe Lola can use that cool painting that her daughter made as your avatar.   :D

What a great idea... for me.  :)

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 30, 2017, 09:22:06 PM
I'll take a chance, but I do have to say that a Manga avatar would make me appear to be much younger and cooler than I actually am.   Silly7

I don't know if the one I gave you is Manga or not.  If you see something you want.... post the link.  :)
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on December 30, 2017, 09:29:23 PM
What a great idea... for me.  :)

 Silly7 Silly7 Silly7 Silly7 Silly7
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 31, 2017, 04:53:49 AM
I can't, either, but that's partially because I don't have data on my cell.  I do have a digital camera, which I can then upload to my computer and email.  Is that an option for you?

Or maybe Lola can use that cool painting that her daughter made as your avatar.   :D

Thanks for the offer, that's very kind.  My housemate loves to take pictures, I need to have her take some of the cat and dogs and send them to me.  Then I will have to figure out how to post them. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 31, 2017, 04:55:11 AM
What a great idea... for me.  :)

That is awesome!  She's very talented. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 31, 2017, 04:57:43 AM
I don't know if the one I gave you is Manga or not.  If you see something you want.... post the link.  :)

This one's fine for now.  When your daughter paints another cat, though... ;D
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on December 31, 2017, 02:29:18 PM
So an update on the transition.

They are all accepting the homemade food, mostly without complaint.  Jenny is a little more difficult - I've had to mix some Fancy Feast Broths that I had left from a few months ago to tempt her, but she is coming along, too.  I think I may try feeding her in the utility room off our kitchen, as she is easily intimidated by the other cats.  It wasn't a problem when I was free-feeding kibble, she just ate when no one else was, but that's not working so well with actual mealtimes.  Mostly, though, things are going well, and I am feeding less canned food every day.

I think the problem with the beef I offered the other day may have been that it was TOO lean, or maybe they didn't like the chunks.  Their favorite canned food is RedBarn lamb pate, so I am hoping to find some lamb I can afford soon.  I see that I am not too far from a delivery point for My Pet Carnivore, so I may try using them. 

One thing I started doing, and wish I had thought of it before, is weighing the food when it's all mixed and packaged up, and then weighing again after a feeding, so I have a better idea of how much I am using.  So far, it's working out pretty much a I expected.  Once they are completely off canned, I will probably need to plan on using about 2 1/2 lbs. of food per day for everyone, including the dogs.

Right after Thanksgiving, I noticed that one of our local grocery stores had whole turkeys for 49 cents/lb.  I did not look at them then, but I will see if they are doing the same thing now, and if the turkeys are free of solutions or other additives, I will buy as many as I have room for in the freezer.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 31, 2017, 04:37:20 PM
Thanks for the offer, that's very kind.  My housemate loves to take pictures, I need to have her take some of the cat and dogs and send them to me.  Then I will have to figure out how to post them. 

You can always send me one you want to use, and I will post it for you. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 31, 2017, 04:37:54 PM
That is awesome!  She's very talented. 

Thank you... even though she didn't get the talent from me OR hubby.  lol
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on December 31, 2017, 05:22:41 PM
So an update on the transition.

They are all accepting the homemade food, mostly without complaint.  Jenny is a little more difficult - I've had to mix some Fancy Feast Broths that I had left from a few months ago to tempt her, but she is coming along, too.  I think I may try feeding her in the utility room off our kitchen, as she is easily intimidated by the other cats.  It wasn't a problem when I was free-feeding kibble, she just ate when no one else was, but that's not working so well with actual mealtimes.  Mostly, though, things are going well, and I am feeding less canned food every day.

Our Roxy eats in a bedroom by herself.  She is more comfortable eating alone.  If she is fed with the group, she will take a bite...look around... take another bite, repeat.  It seems like it makes her nervous. Others will finish before her, and then stare her down.  She will then walk away.  She doesn't like confrontation.  So the bedroom it is!

Jenkins also eats alone.  The reason for that is because he will scarf his food down, so he can steal others. 

The other 4 eat together in the kitchen.  They pretty much eat at the same speed.  Goose eats a bit slower, but no one would consider stealing her food!  :) 

My point... you will figure out what works for each of them.  :) 

Quote
I think the problem with the beef I offered the other day may have been that it was TOO lean, or maybe they didn't like the chunks.  Their favorite canned food is RedBarn lamb pate, so I am hoping to find some lamb I can afford soon. 


Don't forget beef in canned food isn't exactly (or even close to it) the same as fresh beef.  Whole new ballgame!  Plus, there is a texture change for them to get used to. 

Quote
I see that I am not too far from a delivery point for My Pet Carnivore, so I may try using them. 


I am realllllly far from My Pet Carnivore... never had a problem.  In fact, I am NOT on their list of States that they deliver to.  I had to sign that I wouldn't hold them responsible, if anything went wrong.  However, they package their products VERY well!  And they ship so that a delivery won't be sitting around in a delivery truck through a weekend.  I have NEVER had a delivery that was thawed or even partially thawed.  If you plan to buy any ground... skip the coarse ground, and go with the fine ground.  I don't care for the size of the bone fragments in the coarse ground.  Their rabbit is the favorite among my group.  Obvious favorite... they get beyond excited when they know rabbit is on the menu.  lol 

Quote
One thing I started doing, and wish I had thought of it before, is weighing the food when it's all mixed and packaged up, and then weighing again after a feeding, so I have a better idea of how much I am using.  So far, it's working out pretty much a I expected.  Once they are completely off canned, I will probably need to plan on using about 2 1/2 lbs. of food per day for everyone, including the dogs.

I don't feed as precise as Middle Child does.  She has things down to a fine science.  I tend to be a bit lazy.  On average, each cat is fed 5 oz a day.  I freeze 3 daily meals in one container.  Sooooooo mine eat the same brand/protein for an entire day.  The next day... different brand and protein.

I eyeball serving sizes.  Roxy is a small-ish cat, so she gets a bit less.  Arrows is very active, he gets a bit more.  Things like that.  If I had to guess...  3 of them are at perfect weight, and 3 of them could weigh a bit less.  I'm not doing the 3 any favors, but I have a fear of underfeeding that I can't seem to overcome.  Since I am prettttty sure I overfeed to an extent, I don't feed any snacks. 
I believe the perfect serving is 3% of a furkid's body weight.  Don't quote me though.  :)

Quote
 
Right after Thanksgiving, I noticed that one of our local grocery stores had whole turkeys for 49 cents/lb.  I did not look at them then, but I will see if they are doing the same thing now, and if the turkeys are free of solutions or other additives, I will buy as many as I have room for in the freezer.

We had a small freezer.  Bought a bigger one.  10 cu feet.  If I had to do it all over again, I would have went bigger.  Between already prepared frozen meals and meats waiting to be prepared.... it gets pretty tight in there.   Silly7
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 01, 2018, 03:13:31 AM
Our Roxy eats in a bedroom by herself.  She is more comfortable eating alone.  If she is fed with the group, she will take a bite...look around... take another bite, repeat.  It seems like it makes her nervous. Others will finish before her, and then stare her down.  She will then walk away.  She doesn't like confrontation.  So the bedroom it is!

Jenkins also eats alone.  The reason for that is because he will scarf his food down, so he can steal others. 

The other 4 eat together in the kitchen.  They pretty much eat at the same speed.  Goose eats a bit slower, but no one would consider stealing her food!  :) 

My point... you will figure out what works for each of them.  :) 

Don't forget beef in canned food isn't exactly (or even close to it) the same as fresh beef.  Whole new ballgame!  Plus, there is a texture change for them to get used to. 

I am realllllly far from My Pet Carnivore... never had a problem.  In fact, I am NOT on their list of States that they deliver to.  I had to sign that I wouldn't hold them responsible, if anything went wrong.  However, they package their products VERY well!  And they ship so that a delivery won't be sitting around in a delivery truck through a weekend.  I have NEVER had a delivery that was thawed or even partially thawed.  If you plan to buy any ground... skip the coarse ground, and go with the fine ground.  I don't care for the size of the bone fragments in the coarse ground.  Their rabbit is the favorite among my group.  Obvious favorite... they get beyond excited when they know rabbit is on the menu.  lol 

I don't feed as precise as Middle Child does.  She has things down to a fine science.  I tend to be a bit lazy.  On average, each cat is fed 5 oz a day.  I freeze 3 daily meals in one container.  Sooooooo mine eat the same brand/protein for an entire day.  The next day... different brand and protein.

I eyeball serving sizes.  Roxy is a small-ish cat, so she gets a bit less.  Arrows is very active, he gets a bit more.  Things like that.  If I had to guess...  3 of them are at perfect weight, and 3 of them could weigh a bit less.  I'm not doing the 3 any favors, but I have a fear of underfeeding that I can't seem to overcome.  Since I am prettttty sure I overfeed to an extent, I don't feed any snacks. 
I believe the perfect serving is 3% of a furkid's body weight.  Don't quote me though.  :)

We had a small freezer.  Bought a bigger one.  10 cu feet.  If I had to do it all over again, I would have went bigger.  Between already prepared frozen meals and meats waiting to be prepared.... it gets pretty tight in there.   Silly7

You have described perfectly the way Jenny eats:  always looking over her shoulder.  Part of it, though, is that she still vastly prefers her canned food.  They all like it better, but she really holds out on me sometimes. 

I probably will not be as precise as Middle Child, either.  I'm kind of ball-parking it, and using the weighing of food to figure out how much meat I need to buy each month.  Ideally, I would be able to know exactly how much each cat is eating, but there is no practical way for me to set up six feeding spots and keep the cats from checking out each other's plates.  They're like little kids, everyone making sure nobody else got something better than they did!  I've based my amounts on the total weight of all the cats, plus what I think I need to add to the dogs' premix.  The percentage I have seen is 2-3% of body weight.  I am using 3%.  I can adjust it down if I need to, based on the cats' weekly weigh-in.  I don't think an impulse to overeat was making my fat cats fat, I think that was kibble.  I'm sure they were eating too much of it, but that was probably in a vain effort to get what they needed from junk that could never truly provide it.

Our freezer is an upright.  It was here when I moved in.  I'm hoping to get the the point that half of it is available for pet foods.  I used to have a 25 c.f. chest freezer.  I miss it.  I think I could probably find some way to maximize the space in the one that we have, though.  I have some plastic boxes and drawers I might put in there to do that, so there's not just empty space over the items on the shelves.

My reason for being so pleased that I live near a My Pet Carnivore delivery point is, as with many things that delight me, cost.  If I can meet them and pick the food up, I don't have to pay for shipping, and every dollar I save on shipping is a dollar I can spend on the food itself.  Plus, there are items they do not ship, like bulk packages of goat and lamb trim:  30 lb. for about $75!  That's a lot of meat, and as part of a rotation diet, it would probably last at least two months, depending on how often I feed it, but it's a way for me to offer items I couldn't possibly afford to otherwise, unless I find an amazing sale in town.  The two workhorse items on the menu are probably going to be chicken and pork, which I can get cheaply here in town.  If I can add some lamb or goat, purchased in bulk, that will free up money for things like rabbit, which I understand cats adore.  If my calculations are right, I will be using close to 75 lb. of meat per month to feed everyone, plus the cost of supplements, and premix for the dogs.  (Actually, I am not at all sure I will continue with the premix.  I'm tending right now toward using what I just got, and then making my own fruit and veg puree to add to their meals.)  I need to keep meat costs as low as I possibly can, while still providing a good variety. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 01, 2018, 05:22:49 AM
Just started on the pork roast I got at Sprouts, it took forever for it to thaw out.  It's got a lot of marbling and fat, not necessarily what we prize in pork for our own dinner tables, but I think it will make good pet food.  It is a little harder on my food processor than chicken, though.

I think Mouse will be my most enthusiastic raw cat - she kept getting on the counter and licking the meat as I was cutting it up!  I dropped one little chunk on the floor, so I gave it to Bandit.  He sniffed it, carried it around, acted like he was not going to eat it, and then gobbled it up when I moved to take it away.

Getting very low on canned.  I don't want to be without it entirely, so I may see if Hollywood has any more Lotus on sale.  It is not their favorite, but $1.50 for a large can of that brand is amazing, and they will eat it.  Anyway, it seems like giving their favorite canned might make them less likely to eat the raw. 

I hope you all don't mind my frequent posts and stream-of consciousness style of telling this story.  I'm just kind of adding stuff as it occurs to me... :-[
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on January 01, 2018, 07:00:43 AM
Quote
I hope you all don't mind my frequent posts and stream-of consciousness style of telling this story.  I'm just kind of adding stuff as it occurs to me... :-[

This is exactly what we had HOPED for.  It is incredibly helpful to do it this way, I have found, and it is a treasure trove of info for anyone else thinking of making the transition.  HeadButt
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 01, 2018, 03:54:58 PM
Scary new protein source!  Cats proceeding with caution.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on January 01, 2018, 09:53:07 PM
Quote
  I don't think an impulse to overeat was making my fat cats fat, I think that was kibble.  I'm sure they were eating too much of it, but that was probably in a vain effort to get what they needed from junk that could never truly provide it.

That, and the kibble itself isn't filling from a satisfaction standpoint, because it doesn't have enough animal protein, and that's what fills/satisfies them.  An example is that I can have a bowl of cereal for breaksfast, but less than an hour later I'm hungry again.  And another thing:  carbs spike the blood sugar, and when the blood sugar drops, you/they need to eat again to keep from crashing.  It becomes a very bad cycle, and it's how cats (and people, depending on what they're eating) can become diabetic.

Quote
I hope you all don't mind my frequent posts and stream-of consciousness style of telling this story.  I'm just kind of adding stuff as it occurs to me... :-[

You are doing me a HUGE favor, because I never got Pookie on all raw.  I'm currently without furkids, but one day when the circumstances allow me to live with them again, I'd like to go all raw.  This thread will be a tremendous reference for me, and others as well, I'm sure.  So please, keep posting, and THANK YOU!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

Scary new protein source!  Cats proceeding with caution.

 funny2 funny2 funny2
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 03, 2018, 08:25:32 AM
Well, I just did a weigh-in, and I am not sure what to make of it.  For one thing, I actually used the carrier this time, but I have noticed that no matter what I do, the numbers on the scale bounce around as long as the cat is not perfectly still.  I think I might have to weigh daily for a while to get a real idea of what everyone actually weighs. 

Jeoffry - 15 lb., 11.7 oz.  Loss of .5 oz.

Jenny - 11. lb., 12.2 oz.  Loss of 8.8 oz., much too much!  The thing is, she's the one I have had the most trouble weighing, so I am not at all sure that my starting weight was accurate.  I will be weighing her daily, and saving her favorite canned for her alone.

Truman - 16 lb., 5 oz.  Gain of 5.6 oz.  This seems like a lot to me.

Lucy - 8 lb., 0.3 oz.  Gain of 6.3 oz.  Again, it seems like a lot, but she's the one I was most worried about when they rejected some canned food I had gotten.  She was getting too thin, and seems more normal now.

Violet - 7lb. 13.2 oz.  Gain of 11.2 oz?!  Something has to be off here.  I don't believe she has gained that much that fast.  I think I would be able to actually see it.  Shaking my head over this one, and thinking my first weigh-in was incorrect.  I did it with her just sitting in a box.  Not worried about it unless this pattern continues.  She's a lot more solid than when she was eating kibble, and does not seem fat anywhere.

Mouse - 8 lb., 6 oz.  Gain of 8.8 oz.  Same reaction as above, I must have done something wrong the first time.  She likes the raw, but she doesn't eat THAT much.   

I know there are factors that could make a cat's weight fluctuate, like when they most recently visited the litter box, which is why I think I might need to weigh daily for a while.  I am wondering if raw could make the cat gain weight, even while looking more slender, as muscle mass increases.  Any thoughts on this?

The only one I am really concerned about is Jenny.  Again, her starting weight was an estimate, as I could not get her to hold still when I weighed her, but she is my most reluctant eater.  I am going to have to go very slowly with her.  She does have an appetite, but is a lot less accepting anything new than the other cats.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on January 03, 2018, 03:38:28 PM
Yes, as muscle mass increases there may be a slight weight gain on the scale, while the body condition doesn't show it. But cats can gain weight on raw (too many calories is too many calories no matter what the diet) Some of it MAY even out over time as they will probably become more active.

However I think your plan to weight daily for a while is very good.

I weigh weekly, every Sunday morning before breakfast (sometimes Saturday) and make sure that everyone has had their morning pee before I do weights. Pees can weigh from 0.7 oz to 2 oz or more. Poops don't weigh as much.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 03, 2018, 03:57:31 PM
Yes, as muscle mass increases there may be a slight weight gain on the scale, while the body condition doesn't show it. But cats can gain weight on raw (too many calories is too many calories no matter what the diet) Some of it MAY even out over time as they will probably become more active.

However I think your plan to weight daily for a while is very good.

I weigh weekly, every Sunday morning before breakfast (sometimes Saturday) and make sure that everyone has had their morning pee before I do weights. Pees can weigh from 0.7 oz to 2 oz or more. Poops don't weigh as much.

When I did that first weigh-in, it was after they hadn't been wanting to eat very much (remember my panic about that?), so that may explain some of the gains.  I suspect part of it is also due to the way I tried to weigh them that first time.  The only one I am really concerned about is Jenny.  I'm focusing very hard on getting her to eat more.  If she continues to drop weight, I'll take her to the vet in a couple of days to see if there is a reason for it other than diet.  She's lost quite a bit since taking them all off Science Diet months ago, and that's good, but this past 10 days was too much, too fast, if it's accurate. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: DeeDee on January 03, 2018, 04:25:17 PM
I suspect part of it is also due to the way I tried to weigh them that first time. 

I'd weigh them the way you did the first time, and weigh them again the new way you've weighed them. Compare. You're not going to get proper results any other way.

What you've just done is compare apples to oranges, and the first weigh-in doesn't count.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 03, 2018, 04:50:22 PM
I'd weigh them the way you did the first time, and weigh them again the new way you've weighed them. Compare. You're not going to get proper results any other way.

What you've just done is compare apples to oranges, and the first weigh-in doesn't count.

I tried to do that, but it wasn't working.  The first time, I just had each cat sit in a box on the scale.  I thought it would upset them less than being put in a carrier, but yesterday I couldn't get anyone to sit still in the box.  I'm doing weigh-ins using a carrier from here on out.  My scale has tare, so it shouldn't matter what they sit in, as long as they hold still, should it?

The good news is, with the exception of Jenny, I think they are ready to go to raw only, no more canned.  I did order some little cans and pouches for her, and to drizzle over the food if they get picky when I introduce a new protein source.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 05, 2018, 07:12:25 PM
Jenny is starting to show interest in raw!  She ate her whole meal just now.  I had to kind of redirect her to the bowl a few times, when the other cats distracted her, but she ended up eating all of it.  I am beyond overjoyed!

Tonight's dinner was pork.  It was a cut with some fat that came out kind of stringy when I ran it through the food processor, so I am even prouder of her for actually chewing a little.

I could honestly shed tears of joy right now, at seeing her enjoy her food. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on January 05, 2018, 08:19:27 PM

I could honestly shed tears of joy right now, at seeing her enjoy her food. 

Sooooooo many can relate to your joy... I promise you! 

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on January 05, 2018, 08:39:29 PM
Jenny is starting to show interest in raw!  She ate her whole meal just now.  I had to kind of redirect her to the bowl a few times, when the other cats distracted her, but she ended up eating all of it.  I am beyond overjoyed!

Tonight's dinner was pork.  It was a cut with some fat that came out kind of stringy when I ran it through the food processor, so I am even prouder of her for actually chewing a little.

I could honestly shed tears of joy right now, at seeing her enjoy her food. 

How wonderful! I am so happy for you! (and Jenny!)
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on January 05, 2018, 10:33:01 PM
multistars multistars multistars  thumbsup1  Yay, Jenny!  (and good job, Mom)  :)
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 06, 2018, 06:10:28 AM
Today is shopping day.  I still have a bag of chicken leg quarters, and part of the pork roast, both in the freezer, but I need to get more liver.  I will be smarter this time, and divide it up into small portions before freezing it!  Last time, I put the whole tub in the freezer, and that proved to be a real headache later.  I am hoping to find some hearts - chicken or beef, whatever - for the taurine and to give them something to chew, and maybe some chicken necks.  I also need to get some meat that is not frozen, as my stash of food is getting a bit too low to wait for the stuff in my freezer to thaw out.  I like to have a few days' worth ready to go.  I don't want to turn to canned just because I have run out!

I have read almost every post about raw for cats (I did skip some of the ones about freeze-dried and RadCat, as I don't see myself using either of these - nothing wrong with them, I just can't afford them), and lots of those for dogs, and I want to say thank you to everyone who has shared so much about their own journeys.  I have gotten so many good ideas, and I have special admiration for cat parents who overcame an aversion to handling raw meat to do the best for their furkids.  It's not something that has ever bothered me, and I wonder if I would have been so determined if it had.  I hope that does not sound arrogant, or like I think I have "graduated" or something, because I'm not sure you can, but I did want to express my appreciation for this forum and its members.  You guys rock.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on January 06, 2018, 03:28:06 PM
but I did want to express my appreciation for this forum and its members.  You guys rock.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

Awww . . .  :-* :-* :-* :-* HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt You're very welcome!

I think I can speak for all of us when I say that we're glad you found the information here helpful and useful.  That's why this forum exists, so we can share what we've learned with others, to help them and their pets on their journey.

I have read almost every post about raw for cats

Wow.  That's a LOT of reading.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy  My head was practically exploding just after reading Dr. Pierson's site, so I don't know how you handled all the information here.

Your pets (and your roomie's pets) are lucky to have you.  You rock, too!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 06, 2018, 04:34:24 PM
Shopping is done.  I got chicken livers, of course, 2 1/2 lb., which I had to have to make any more food.  Also found chicken breasts marked down, and got 6 lbs.  Boneless and skinned, so I may mix them with leg quarter meat, I just need to thaw it out and debone it.  I also got two 24 oz. Cornish game hens and 6 1/2 lbs. of beef cheek.  Spent just under $35 after tax, which is not too bad for 16 lb.  Also ordered two more packets of Alnutrin yesterday.  The first one is not gone yet, but I don't want to run out.

I will probably end up thawing the hens one at a time, and cutting them up to see if I can get anyone to eat bone here in a week or two.  I'm hoping they will, at least occasionally.  What I am feeding how is much, much better than commercial food, but I really want them to have the full benefits of a raw diet, including the good that crunching bones will do for their teeth.

I had completely forgotten about the green-lipped mussel powder that I ordered until I reorganized my treats and supplements storage yesterday (I think temporary stupidity may be a symptom of flu).  I added a bit to their food last night and this morning, and that stuff is like kitty crack.  I think it is part of why Jenny finally decided to accept the raw food. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on January 06, 2018, 11:39:34 PM
I am thrilled you joined us!  Also, glad you found useful info.  I don't think I have ever asked a question here, that one of the whizzes hasn't been able to answer.  :)  I probably toyed with the idea of feeding raw for longer than I have been feeding raw.   Silly7  It took me a looooooong time wrap my head around it.  No one gave up on me though! 
You have helped me too...as far as the fruits and veggie ratios, when feeding Honest Kitchen Base.  Lacy dog's tummy thanks you too!! 

I think I remember MC mentioning green-lipped mussel, but don't remember what the benefit is.  ??  Also, is it okay to add it to the meals where you add Alnutrin? 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 07, 2018, 01:36:27 AM
I am thrilled you joined us!  Also, glad you found useful info.  I don't think I have ever asked a question here, that one of the whizzes hasn't been able to answer.  :)  I probably toyed with the idea of feeding raw for longer than I have been feeding raw.   Silly7  It took me a looooooong time wrap my head around it.  No one gave up on me though! 
You have helped me too...as far as the fruits and veggie ratios, when feeding Honest Kitchen Base.  Lacy dog's tummy thanks you too!! 

I think I remember MC mentioning green-lipped mussel, but don't remember what the benefit is.  ??  Also, is it okay to add it to the meals where you add Alnutrin?

Omega-3.  No problem adding it with Alnutrin that I know of.  I think I read that EZ-Complete has it, but Alnutrin does not.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on January 07, 2018, 08:02:58 AM
EZc uses green lipped mussel.  Mazy cat also takes it in a therapeutic dose for arthritis.  It has changed her life.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 08, 2018, 10:43:55 PM
EZc uses green lipped mussel.  Mazy cat also takes it in a therapeutic dose for arthritis.  It has changed her life.

I read your thread about Mazy's arthritis today after seeing this post.  That is really wonderful! 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 08, 2018, 11:43:06 PM
Well, I still have canned food on hand for emergencies, but I think I can safely say that I now have raw-fed cats.  They are not terribly crazy about boneless, skinless chicken breast - I think it may taste bland to them.  The green-lipped mussel powder helps with that, and I've also been adding tiny amounts of those little Weruva BFF food pouches as seasoning (a three-ounce pouch lasts six cats for a day or two), but it's been a few days since I had to offer canned because I felt that they were under-eating.  Jenny was the last hold-out, but I haven't had to open a can even for her since she finished her dinner the other night.  I guess that was her "AHA!" moment.   :)

I'll continue to post as I add new protein sources and notice changes in the cats' condition and activity levels, and especially when I start giving occasional Frankenprey meals, which is my ultimate goal.  Things I have already noticed are less poop - lots less - and the fact that they are not drinking as much water.  Mouse used to pester me at the kitchen sink every time I had the water running.  They still have fresh water, of course, both regular bowls and fountains, but I guess they are getting enough moisture from their food that they are not as thirsty as they were before.  It has really opened my eyes to how much a properly fed cat depends on its food for hydration.  I knew before, but knowing is one thing, and actually seeing it is another.  I've noticed more pee, but not a lot more, probably because I was bending over backwards to coax them to drink when they were on kibble, and they were actually pretty good about it.

I think the hardest thing from this point onward might be holding my temper with people who insist that their cats are "just fine" eating dry food, particularly when some health condition indicates that it's even worse for that particular cat than a healthy one.   bangshead

Updated:  Totally cut the cord.  I just threw out the last small unopened bag of cat kibble, some kibble-type treats still in the packets, and ground-up Temptations I had gotten to sprinkle over the raw.  No reason to keep stuff I never want to use again. 
   
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on January 09, 2018, 11:37:26 AM
Updated:  Totally cut the cord.  I just threw out the last small unopened bag of cat kibble, some kibble-type treats still in the packets, and ground-up Temptations I had gotten to sprinkle over the raw.  No reason to keep stuff I never want to use again. 

multistars  Congrats on cutting the cord!  multistars

Is there a shelter you could donate the food to?  I realize kibble's not ideal, but it's something.

As for people who claim their cats are "fine" on dry . . . yeah, join the club.  We've got jackets.   Silly7   On a more serious note, I just tell myself that this is a journey (as is life), and people are at different places on that journey.  Some just aren't there yet, and most of us were at that place at some point.  Some will "get it" eventually, others won't.  We can only put the information out there and hope that it connects with someone.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on January 09, 2018, 01:16:45 PM
They are not terribly crazy about boneless, skinless chicken breast - I think it may taste bland to them. 

At one time, all of our cats would eat fresh grocery store chicken boneless breasts.  Then I gave them thighs.  I don't know if that had anything to do with it, but two wouldn't touch any kind of grocery store chicken again. 
They will eat chicken I buy online though.   :-\

Quote
The green-lipped mussel powder helps with that, and I've also been adding tiny amounts of those little Weruva BFF food pouches as seasoning (a three-ounce pouch lasts six cats for a day or two), but it's been a few days since I had to offer canned because I felt that they were under-eating.  Jenny was the last hold-out, but I haven't had to open a can even for her since she finished her dinner the other night.  I guess that was her "AHA!" moment.   :)

For us... some jumped right into eating raw.  Others had to be coaxed.  It took different toppers, for different cats.  I could be wrong... but I think with some, it is the texture change that holds them back. 

Quote
Things I have already noticed are less poop - lots less - and the fact that they are not drinking as much water. 

A LOT less poo and no stink!!! 
I put out fresh water every day, but it is for the dog.  The only time the cats drink water is if they stay outside a long time in their enclosure...and it is warm outside.  If I were to see a cat drinking a lot of water, I would likely take them to the vet. 

Quote
I think the hardest thing from this point onward might be holding my temper with people who insist that their cats are "just fine" eating dry food, particularly when some health condition indicates that it's even worse for that particular cat than a healthy one.   bangshead

It IS tough.  I TRY to remember... I was in their shoes at one time.  I thought my cats were fine too... until one wasn't.  I also quote/post Dr. Lisa Pierson a LOT.  This link in particular:  http://catinfo.org/#My_Cat_is_Doing_Just_Fine_on_Dry_Food

 :)

Quote
Updated:  Totally cut the cord.  I just threw out the last small unopened bag of cat kibble, some kibble-type treats still in the packets, and ground-up Temptations I had gotten to sprinkle over the raw.  No reason to keep stuff I never want to use again. 
   

Way to go!!!  I'm also especially glad you tossed the Temptations.  They have more issues, then just about any other treat out there. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on January 09, 2018, 01:17:43 PM
Quote
As for people who claim their cats are "fine" on dry . . . yeah, join the club.  We've got jackets.
   thumbsup1 thumbsup1


Quote
I just tell myself that this is a journey (as is life), and people are at different places on that journey.  Some just aren't there yet, and most of us were at that place at some point.  Some will "get it" eventually, others won't.  We can only put the information out there and hope that it connects with someone.

Exactly!
Sometimes just planting the seed reaches someone. 

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 09, 2018, 04:50:38 PM
multistars  Congrats on cutting the cord!  multistars

Is there a shelter you could donate the food to?  I realize kibble's not ideal, but it's something.

As for people who claim their cats are "fine" on dry . . . yeah, join the club.  We've got jackets.   Silly7   On a more serious note, I just tell myself that this is a journey (as is life), and people are at different places on that journey.  Some just aren't there yet, and most of us were at that place at some point.  Some will "get it" eventually, others won't.  We can only put the information out there and hope that it connects with someone.

It was a trial-sized bag, 12 oz., and a packet of expired treats.  Not worth making the trip.  I'm not even sure they would have accepted it, as the bag was slightly damaged from where one of my cats chewed on it. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 09, 2018, 04:56:02 PM
Way to go!!!  I'm also especially glad you tossed the Temptations.  They have more issues, then just about any other treat out there.

I got them because I had read that grinding them up and sprinkling them on new food would induce a reluctant cat to eat.  It may work for some, but not so much for me.  After the first time, they didn't want them anymore, not as a seasoning, not as a treat, not at all. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on January 09, 2018, 05:06:10 PM
Congratulations Catgirl!  I am so happy for you and your cats!

Quote
I think the hardest thing from this point onward might be holding my temper with people who insist that their cats are "just fine" eating dry food, particularly when some health condition indicates that it's even worse for that particular cat than a healthy one.   bangshead

Good luck with that.  Well you've seen my neverending posts lol.  One of my pet things to say is when I tell people once they make the switch they will understand the passion.

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on January 09, 2018, 05:40:31 PM
I got them because I had read that grinding them up and sprinkling them on new food would induce a reluctant cat to eat.  It may work for some, but not so much for me.  After the first time, they didn't want them anymore, not as a seasoning, not as a treat, not at all. 

I wasn't judging.  :) 

I bought Meow Mix, or something equally disgusting, to top Jenkins' meals...when he was new to our home.  I wore a hat and sunglasses, when I went to the store to purchase it though!   Silly7
In my defense :) it was whatever he was used to eating at the shelter.  It worked.  I think I only had to use it as a topper twice.  Thank goodness!!!
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 10, 2018, 01:20:53 PM
I wasn't judging.  :) 

I bought Meow Mix, or something equally disgusting, to top Jenkins' meals...when he was new to our home.  I wore a hat and sunglasses, when I went to the store to purchase it though!   Silly7
In my defense :) it was whatever he was used to eating at the shelter.  It worked.  I think I only had to use it as a topper twice.  Thank goodness!!!

Oh, I didn't think that you were.  I just thought it was funny that they didn't live up to their reputation as irresistible.  I think cats must be smarter than we often give them credit for.   ;D

LOL at your incognito purchase of Meow Mix!   funny2 funny2 funny2

I did have to break down and give them some Fancy Feast from my emergency stash for lunch today.  I used up the last of my Alnutrin the day after I placed an order for more, and served the last of the food I made with it this morning.  Fortunately, it is supposed to arrive today, so I will regard this incident as the feline version of taking the kids to McDonald's because mom forgot to defrost anything for dinner.   ::)

I ordered two packets this time, and when the first one is gone, I will order another.  I want to make sure I always have a packet in reserve, so I don't run out again. 

Update:  I just checked the mail, and it did not come, although we did have other mail.  Tracking still says that it is supposed to be here today, so perhaps it will still arrive.  I am going to go ahead and grind up meat for the next batch of food.  If it does not come today, would it be okay for them to miss it for a meal or two?  I do not want them to start expecting canned on a regular basis - they still like it too much.  I could prep the meat and liver, and then maybe grind up a couple of egg yolks with the shells and add them as part of an emergency meal.  They would be missing out on a few things, but only for a day.  Thoughts?
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on January 10, 2018, 03:48:08 PM
One day of missing a few things would not be a problem.  When Mazy cat has a bad flare she gets nothing but bone broth, or maybe some plain raw meat if I think she can handle it, for a day. It would be fine.

yeah, I always have a healthy back stock. On everything.  I grew up in a house that we always ran out of everything, especially essentials.  Shampoo, toilet paper, soap. Milk. Food.  I'm not blaming my mother, we were poor, she worked all the time and there there were 5 of us.

But, for instance, when I get down to two bags of Ezcomplete, I order 4 more.  ;D
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on January 11, 2018, 05:31:40 AM
I order as many as I can afford at one time.  Alnutrin for meals with bone, and the one for meals without bone.  I try to avoid panic mode.  :)  Also, since I make several pounds at once, I blow through it pretty quickly!  Buying several at one time, also saves on shipping. 

I HAVE mixed up batches without Alnutrin.  Since some say "if it is 80/10/5/5" all is good...  I go with that theory, with those batches.  :)  Since I don't feed the same protein from the same source, two days in a row... I'm good.

BUT I am with MC... a day of missing something isn't going to be a deal breaker.  Wrapping your head around that, is probably going to be the only obstacle.  :)  Think about whoever it was that checked 10 (?) amount of can pet foods, for the proper nutrients and such... something like 8 of them failed.  I don't remember who, or the exact numbers, but I do remember the outcome was HUGE. 

Disclaimer  :)  I'm not advocating a person feed unbalance meals, but sometimes there ARE emergencies. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on January 13, 2018, 07:54:42 AM
How is the weighing going?
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 13, 2018, 08:51:47 AM
How is the weighing going?

The ugly truth is that I have been very lax about weighing.  Did it just now, and I am probably going to treat these weights as a starting point.  The problem is, until a cat settles down inside the carrier, the display fluctuates by several ounces, and I think I have just now really gotten the hang of figuring out which one is accurate. 

It does look like some of them have gained a wee bit, except for Jeoffry.  I think he has lost an ounce or two.  This pleases me, as he was the most overweight when we started out.  I have weighed Jenny a few times since my first post about the new scale, because I was really afraid of her not eating and getting fatty liver.  She seems to be doing well. 

I may need to cut down on what I feed, but I think that some of the gains are due to the fact that the cold weather, which has gone on and on, is keeping the cats from spending much time on our screened porch, which is their usual playground.  I am ordering some new toys for them, so I can give them more exercise indoors.     

I do wonder one thing.  Do formerly fat cats ever lose that saggy look around their bellies?  It makes it more difficult to tell if they are getting more fit, and just have some remaining loose skin down there, or if they still need to lose more.  The fact that the heavier cats all have long hair makes it even more difficult.   

I need to do a better job at regular weigh-ins, but I have to say, I've got a lot of other things on my plate right now.  J recovered from the flu alright, but her gait, balance, and fine motor skills have been deteriorating recently.  She is terrified, as am I, but that anxiety only makes things worse.  We were at the doctor's office Thursday for this, and she has three more visits to see if we can find out the cause.  I may end up being a caregiver, as well as a cat parent, and other than making sure everyone is fed, this had been occupying most of my mental energy lately.

Weights as of this morning:

Jeoffry - 15 lb., 10 oz.

Jenny - 11 lb., 14.6 oz.

Truman - 16 lb., 7.7 oz.

Lucy - 7 lb., 15.1 oz.

Violet - 8 lb., 1.4 oz.

Mouse - 8 lb., 6.7 oz. 

Based on eyeballing alone, I would say that Lucy and Violet are at a good weight.  I think Mouse is getting a bit too pudgy.  She does not have the lanky build that Violet does, but she is also a smaller cat, although not by much.  Jeoffry is losing, slowly, and I am pleased.  I don't know what to think about Truman.  Other than that saggy belly from when he was fatter, he looks good.  Not sure about Jenny, either.  She also has the sag, but does not feel heavily padded on her back and ribs.  She is the one most in need of improved muscle mass.  She seems both thin and fat, if that makes any sense, but I do see signs of improvement with the new diet.

 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on January 13, 2018, 09:38:42 AM
The more often you do it, the quicker they will get used to it. Well you know that of course.  ;)  Some cats have a natural primordial pouch, some don't.  Mazy cat and Queen Eva both have an udder.  Queen Eva is extremely slender and always has been, and she has one. Mazy cat came with it, when I adopted her at about 6 months old.

Jennie, on the other hand doesn't have that sag at all.  Which is odd, because she had at least 3 litters (vet estimate based on the condition of her uterus at spay). And was overweight for a short time when I was still adjusting her canned food amounts her first and second year with me.

I think making today your base point and working from here is a good idea.

I've found that it can take a long time for weight changes to show, when making a dieit reduction or addition.

For instance when I first started feeding raw Jennie did start to plump up again.  I reduced her intake and there was no change for about a month, and then suddenly she seemed to be dropping an ounce a week, and I panicked and put her intake back up.  Conversely it took another month before the weight loss stopped, she stabilized, then she started going back up again.

I have to constantly adjust Jennie's intake. I don't know why. Maybe it has something to do with her metabolism, because she's had pregnancies?  . 

Mazy cat and Queen Eva, both spayed before 6 months, stay stable.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on January 13, 2018, 09:39:51 AM
I only just saw the part about J.  I'm so sorry you are dealing with that.  yes, very stressful for you both, and the furkids too.  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on January 13, 2018, 12:46:34 PM
Quote
J recovered from the flu alright, but her gait, balance, and fine motor skills have been deteriorating recently.  She is terrified, as am I, but that anxiety only makes things worse.  We were at the doctor's office Thursday for this, and she has three more visits to see if we can find out the cause.

The flu takes a LOT out of the body.  The one time I had it, it took weeks for me to recover (I also had a sinus infection and GI virus at the same time, but still . . .).  I'll send you a pawmail with some supplement suggestions that might help.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on January 13, 2018, 07:45:34 PM
Sorry to hear that J is still under the weather.  :( 
All our cats have a pouch to some extent.  Some more obvious than others.  It is part of their normal anatomy. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 14, 2018, 03:43:45 PM
I'm discovering how much texture matters.

Because the delivery of my meat grinder was delayed by weather, I have had to improvise.  I fed more canned than I wanted to, then used some ground elk I had in the freezer.  That was a big hit, I wish I could afford it as part of the regular rotation.  Yesterday, I chopped up some chicken breast and pork roast that I felt needed to be processed soon.  I wish I had done this when it was still partially frozen, because that would have been easier.  I chopped it by hand as finely as I could, then mixed it with the ground-up liver, and the Alnutrin and water.  I was not happy with the results, as it looked like it would be too easy for the cats to just lick off the liquid and leave the meat, so, very cautiously, about a quarter cup at a time, I ran it all through the blender.  The final consistency was like stringy baby food.  Blenders and food processors do not work well on skin.  The cats are eating it, but not with much enthusiasm.  I am hoping the grinder will do a better job on skin and connective tissue. 

Do grinders, like knives, work better with meat that is not completely thawed out?
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on January 14, 2018, 03:52:42 PM
I haven't used a grinder, but when I put Mazy cat's meat through the food processor, the meat is partially frozen. And yes, if you are adding skin it is a bit more messy.

I add skin separate per meal for Mazy cat (and Jennie too, but she eats chunks) except with the exception of her Cornish hen.  That I debone and process, meat, skin and all.  And it is messy.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on January 14, 2018, 04:07:35 PM
Quote
Do grinders, like knives, work better with meat that is not completely thawed out?


The grinder you bought, suggests frozen or partially thawed.

The website prefers one doesn't copy wording.   ::)
http://grinderdiner.com/sunmile-sm-g35-review/
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 15, 2018, 05:00:09 AM

The grinder you bought, suggests frozen or partially thawed.

The website prefers one doesn't copy wording.   ::)
http://grinderdiner.com/sunmile-sm-g35-review/

I kind of suspected as much, but it's good to have confirmation.  I am please to note that it says the grinder won't tackle "hard, thick" bones, as opposed to saying "no bones."  Once I get used to it, I may try, very cautiously, to put some small, softer bones in there and see how it goes, chicken bones, maybe some chunks of bone-in rabbit.  The more of the food I can actually grind and use, the better off I will be.  Chicken leg quarters are a great bargain, but I end up losing a lot of meat when I use them.  It's very hard to get it all off the bone!  I can save larger bones, like the ones in pork roasts and beef, as well as any excess chicken bones, to make bone broth.  I'd like to get to the point that I don't have to use so much Alnutrin.  The cost adds up quickly!  It would be nice if I could grind bone, and then start using Dr. Pierson's recipe.  It seems like it might be a bit more cost-effective, plus, I like the idea of my animals having the benefits of eating fresh, whole bone.  I like to buy meat at Sprouts when I spot a good buy there, and they have pretty regular sales on vitamins and things like that, often either BOGO or 50% off.  Since I just got two packages of Alnutrin, I have a while to figure all of that out.   

I did notice that her recipe does not include organs, other than liver.  Is that why there are so many vitamins added, or did I miss something?
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on January 20, 2018, 04:12:34 PM
I am starting to see differences!

I have already mentioned poop, of course, and that is still true:  much less, and less stinky.  All of the cats are starting to look shinier, and this, too, is no surprise.

One thing I was not really expecting was the fact that the really fine, soft hair behind my long-haired cats' ears is not tangling as much.  Same with Bandit, and that was a real problem with him.  He would start getting snarls there in a matter of days, and he HATES to have his ears messed with.  I've never really had a big issue with the cats getting "eye boogers," but I have had it with him, and that seems to be improving, too.  He has less of that discoloration that you see so often under the eyes of white dogs.  It's not all gone, but it's better. 

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on January 20, 2018, 05:03:03 PM
I am starting to see differences!

I have already mentioned poop, of course, and that is still true:  much less, and less stinky.  All of the cats are starting to look shinier, and this, too, is no surprise.

One thing I was not really expecting was the fact that the really fine, soft hair behind my long-haired cats' ears is not tangling as much.  Same with Bandit, and that was a real problem with him.  He would start getting snarls there in a matter of days, and he HATES to have his ears messed with.  I've never really had a big issue with the cats getting "eye boogers," but I have had it with him, and that seems to be improving, too.  He has less of that discoloration that you see so often under the eyes of white dogs.  It's not all gone, but it's better. 



 bananamiddlechild multistars bananamiddlechild multistars
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on February 13, 2018, 01:54:51 PM
Like an idiot, once again, I have run out of Alnutrin.   :-[  I thought I had enough food made up to last longer than I did, but as everyone becomes more accustomed to raw, I am using less and less canned food, and I ran short.  I ordered more yesterday, three packages this time.  In the meantime, as I am loath to make up a normal sized batch of ground food without it, I'm thinking this might be a wonderful opportunity to introduce chunks, just to see if I get any takers.  I have thawed two Cornish hens, and am getting ready to cut them up.  I would really love to get at least some of these guys on prey model.  I know I would have to find a source of secreting organs, but that has got to be cheaper than going through enough Alnutrin for eight animals every month.

Anyway....thoughts?  Anyone here feed strictly prey model, with no supplements?  I know that people do, and I used to myself, but that was with dogs only.  Also, am I going to do irreparable harm to my cats if they miss out on Alnutrin for a few days?  I have the meat, the liver, and a carp ton of bone broth. 

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: DeeDee on February 13, 2018, 02:30:55 PM
For sources other than grocery stores, check out your zip-code at:

https://www.localharvest.org/
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Pookie on February 13, 2018, 02:32:46 PM
You might also want to check out Hare Today:  https://hare-today.com/
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on February 13, 2018, 05:37:49 PM
I've been browsing Hare Today for months, way before I started with raw.  The shipping costs might be an issue.

You might also want to check out Hare Today:  https://hare-today.com/

For sources other than grocery stores, check out your zip-code at:

https://www.localharvest.org/

I'll check it out.  I think that My Pet Carnivore would also be a good option for me, if I can work out the logistics of getting to a pick-up point.  They have one not terribly far from here, but the timing is not good.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on February 13, 2018, 05:39:39 PM
This really probably belongs in the dog forum, but Lily and Bandit both ate bones today!  I think it's going to take longer to get the cats to try them. 
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: DeeDee on February 13, 2018, 05:53:49 PM
I think that My Pet Carnivore would also be a good option for me, if I can work out the logistics of getting to a pick-up point.  They have one not terribly far from here, but the timing is not good.

It would be good for me too except for the timing. The Nashville drops are later in the day when traffic is more than crazy, and that means I'd have to drive up to Bowling Green. Doable, but not one of my favorite drives.
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on February 18, 2018, 11:20:51 PM
Everything still going ok?
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on February 20, 2018, 05:53:15 AM
Everything still going ok?

Yes, very well.  I'm sorry I haven't updated in a while.  Not much luck getting the cats to eat bones.  Lily and Bandit will, but the problem with that, as I suspected, is that Lily drags anything that isn't ground up under the covers of my bed, eating some immediately, and stashing some for later.  I would love for her to have the benefits of bones, but not so much that I'm okay with finding her treasures under my pillow.   ::)

Still loving the fact that the cats' coats don't mat anymore, and that their poop is not so smelly.  I'm also getting a better idea of what a correct portion looks like.  I think that initially I was putting down too much food, and then panicking when they didn't eat all of it.  It takes a while to shake the "free feeding" mindset, in terms of how much to feed at each meal, and way too easy to offer what should be a day's worth of food all at once.   
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: ThreeStep on February 20, 2018, 11:40:42 AM
We will try to go that route but right now there are to many personal factors (job up in the air, elderly parents on two continents, ...).
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: DeeDee on February 20, 2018, 12:43:51 PM
We will try to go that route but right now there are to many personal factors (job up in the air, elderly parents on two continents, ...).

The main motto around here is, "We do the best we can, and that's all we can do."
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on February 20, 2018, 06:54:04 PM
Yes, very well.  I'm sorry I haven't updated in a while.  Not much luck getting the cats to eat bones.  Lily and Bandit will, but the problem with that, as I suspected, is that Lily drags anything that isn't ground up under the covers of my bed, eating some immediately, and stashing some for later.  I would love for her to have the benefits of bones, but not so much that I'm okay with finding her treasures under my pillow.   ::)

Still loving the fact that the cats' coats don't mat anymore, and that their poop is not so smelly.  I'm also getting a better idea of what a correct portion looks like.  I think that initially I was putting down too much food, and then panicking when they didn't eat all of it.  It takes a while to shake the "free feeding" mindset, in terms of how much to feed at each meal, and way too easy to offer what should be a day's worth of food all at once.   

Thanks for checking in!  :)
As far as the bone issue... sometimes you have to find something that works for the furkids AND you... especially with a houseful.  I get it.  :)
When I started out feeding raw... I think I fed a total of 6 or 7 ounces each-ish a day for the cats.  (The total amount is a lot less now.) Anyway, when feeding 3 meals a day, I had a VERY difficult time wrapping my head around such small amounts. 
Even though I knew I was feeding them (cats and Lacy dog) pretty much more then the average daily amount... meals seemed soooooooo small. 
Weighing everyone once a week, helped me to know what I was doing was right.  It is also good to make sure no one loses or gains too much weight too fast. 

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Lola on February 20, 2018, 06:57:56 PM
We will try to go that route but right now there are to many personal factors (job up in the air, elderly parents on two continents, ...).

We won't beat you up for not feeding raw.   Silly7
Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Middle Child on February 21, 2018, 05:49:32 AM
Yes, very well.  I'm sorry I haven't updated in a while.  Not much luck getting the cats to eat bones.  Lily and Bandit will, but the problem with that, as I suspected, is that Lily drags anything that isn't ground up under the covers of my bed, eating some immediately, and stashing some for later.  I would love for her to have the benefits of bones, but not so much that I'm okay with finding her treasures under my pillow.   ::)

Still loving the fact that the cats' coats don't mat anymore, and that their poop is not so smelly.  I'm also getting a better idea of what a correct portion looks like.  I think that initially I was putting down too much food, and then panicking when they didn't eat all of it.  It takes a while to shake the "free feeding" mindset, in terms of how much to feed at each meal, and way too easy to offer what should be a day's worth of food all at once.   

It does take a while to shake any kind of mindset like that.  Queen Eva was so skinny and malnourished, but she was very light bones and is meant to be a slender cat. She also has weird tendon issues, so has to be kept light for that reason. Even now it's difficult for me to cut back on her amount if I see she's gained a couple ounces.

Conversely, Jennie, being a rescued stray with food anxiety, gained a lot of weight on even small amounts of canned food. On raw she doesn't have the same issue and is staying fit and trim. Sometimes she drops an ounce or two and I need to increase her quantity, and it still feels weird to do that, because of the years I was struggling to keep her weight down.

Title: Re: Catgirl64's Journey To Raw Feeding
Post by: Catgirl64 on February 22, 2018, 03:53:08 AM
Thanks for checking in!  :)
As far as the bone issue... sometimes you have to find something that works for the furkids AND you... especially with a houseful.  I get it.  :)
When I started out feeding raw... I think I fed a total of 6 or 7 ounces each-ish a day for the cats.  (The total amount is a lot less now.) Anyway, when feeding 3 meals a day, I had a VERY difficult time wrapping my head around such small amounts. 
Even though I knew I was feeding them (cats and Lacy dog) pretty much more then the average daily amount... meals seemed soooooooo small. 
Weighing everyone once a week, helped me to know what I was doing was right.  It is also good to make sure no one loses or gains too much weight too fast.

It also doesn't help if you've gotten used to feeding canned in the amounts directed on the can, and try to apply those standards to raw.  I still have a little Fancy Feast on hand, and if I fed as they say to, a couple of my cats would be getting nearly a pound of food a day!   :o