Author Topic: Where are you getting YOUR "organic" products?  (Read 2423 times)

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Offline DeeDee

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Where are you getting YOUR "organic" products?
« on: December 19, 2014, 06:20:29 PM »
Quote
http://t.co/ZmNtAgcGEa

In what has been called one of the largest fraud investigations in the history of the organic industry, The Cornucopia Institute, a Wisconsin-based farm policy research group, announced filing formal legal complaints against 14 industrial livestock operations producing milk, meat and eggs being marketed, allegedly illegally, as organic.

yuk Yum. Yum. yuk

The list of the offenders that are being charged is here:

http://www.cornucopia.org/2014/12/investigation-factory-farms-producing-massive-quantities-organic-milk-eggs/
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 06:24:19 PM by DeeDee »
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Where are you getting YOUR "organic" products?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2014, 09:01:57 AM »
Thank goodness Mazy's eggs aren't on that list.  Of course, since they don't make her sick I figured they are legitimate, but still, I was worried for a minute!

Offline Lola

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Re: Where are you getting YOUR "organic" products?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2014, 11:23:20 AM »
I don't really buy much Organic.  Call me cynical... but I just didn't have complete faith, from the beginning. 
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Offline Mo

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Re: Where are you getting YOUR "organic" products?
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2014, 09:50:20 PM »
As a dairy farmer, I personally am not a big fan of organic milk, and couldn't raise animals that way.  I know people do, and I support them, but it isn't for me.  To be organic, you can't vaccinate or use any medication.  Doesn't sound that bad on the surface, but to me, it would be inhumane. 

The farm I work for went through issues with Rotavirus this year.  Rotavirus kills 50% of the calves that get it on average, but can be prevented through a vaccine given while the cow is pregnant.  I took care of 200 calves that contracted this virus, through a bunch of hard work and my going slightly insane, only six died.  I learned partly of the way through that battle how to put in IV lines (minor surgery for calves) and after I was able to save them.  They were saved with IV lines by giving them something that reversed their blood poisoning them, which is how calves die from Rotavirus.  Dying from dehydration with your blood poisoning and killing you would suck.  We have been free of Rotavirus since cows started being vaccinated against it - it successfully stops it.

I couldn't treat calves either for pneumonia.  At the first sign of pneumonia I give them a shot of antibiotics and another thing to reduce their fever.  This saves them.  If I couldn't treat them I'd have to just watch them die which I couldn't do.  Cows have no extra lung to spare, so getting them over pneumonia as soon as possible is key.  Calves that get pneumonia which isn't treated soon enough will become poor milk cows.  This farm also vaccinates for pneumonia when the calf is born and again at three months which helps a lot.   But it can't stop everything so occasionally I have to treat them. 

The calves I raise are treated humanely.  More like spoiled.  They wear blankets when it gets cold out, get fed warm milk mixed with yogurt twice a day, have dry warm bedding, get clean grain and water a few times a day, and are very loved.  I know every one of them.  Eggnog who likes to stand in her grain and water buckets to supervise me, Twitch who has huge eyes, Amber who knocks out her buckets, Ace who likes to drool in her grain, Chattanooga who always waits for her imaginary second bottle, Galileo who runs in circles, Tweety Bird and her favorite blanket, or Feta Chive who thinks every time she sees someone they are going to feed her.  They are loved, well treated, and yes vaccinated and given antibiotics when needed.  And I don't see a problem with that.

Rant over.

Offline Lola

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Re: Where are you getting YOUR "organic" products?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2014, 08:38:50 AM »
Mo.
I don't think, what you had to say, was a rant at all!!  You gave some pretty good and helpful first hand experinece information.  Thank you!! 
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Where are you getting YOUR "organic" products?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2014, 09:22:11 AM »
I don't have so much of a problem with whether it's organic or not since I can't see a way of eating ONLY organics, but I DO have a problem with being lied to the way those companies are doing. They're getting paid more for saying they ARE organic companies, and that's not okay at all. If people are going out of their way to get organic, then they ought to get what they're paying for when they buy something.
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Mo

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Re: Where are you getting YOUR "organic" products?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2014, 02:33:11 PM »
Looking through what the dairy farms were cited against, it looks like it is just that their animals were not, at the time of the investigation, on pasture.  I didn't see any time of year mentioned (and I may just be blind Silly7) but I know around here, it is hard to keep cows on pasture year round.  Fields need a rest as well - to regrow.  And here fields get very wet in the winter months with rain so it is unhealthy for both the animals (foot health) to be on wet soggy ground and it tears up the fields.  You also have to deal with the parasites that a cow will pick up while on pasture...and you have no way to treat it because organic farms can't use dewormers.  Diatomaceous earth is an option but it is just not as effective - feeding diatomaceous earth to dairy calves is actually a (small-scale) study I am doing right now with a group of fourteen calves. 

But a lot of farms here even though most are not organic do have animals out on pasture in the summer, though it is mostly the pregnant heifers, some also do it for their milk cows.  Year round I take calves out so they can run though it is weather dependent...I won't if it is raining or the ground is to slick/dangerous.  I do that for calves that were born prematurely to help their lungs develop or for any that are sick. 


Offline Pookie

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Re: Where are you getting YOUR "organic" products?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2014, 03:01:13 PM »
Just out of curiosity, Mo, are there homeopathic remedies for pneumonia or rotavirus?  Just wondering . . .

For me, when it comes to meat I'm not as concerned about organic as what the animal was eating.  I prefer to have animal products that ate what they were meant to eat.  I think it's healthier for the animal as well as the person eating it.

I'd rather have free-range chicken or eggs than cage-free or organic, because I know the chickens were eating bugs and worms, etc. and not just (possibly GMO) feed that might include soy, etc.  Same with beef -- I'd prefer grass-fed to grain-fed.  Could I afford to eat it every day?  Probably not.  But I will treat myself now and then.   :)
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Offline Mo

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Re: Where are you getting YOUR "organic" products?
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2014, 09:26:10 PM »
There isn't that I know of - at first we tried to not vaccinate against Rotavirus.  We kept everything spotless (well, we do anyway...) and tried to avoid contact with sick calves until healthy ones were cared for.  Didn't work.  They all kept getting sick until the cows were vaccinated properly and the calves got enough colostrum from them to gain antibodies against it.  The "treatment" for Rotavirus would be considered organic.  You can't give actual medication because it is a virus and there is nothing to stop it, you just have supportive treatments.  Since it is scours (liquid manure) that meant plenty of extra electrolyte feedings, and in the case of calves that were to weak to stand, putting IV lines in them to give the BiCarb, Glucose, or Saline.  We did find out that calves given an ounce of yogurt daily got the virus less badly, but they still were pretty sick. 

Pneumonia: again, there isn't much you can do other than vaccinate and treat with antibiotics if they get sick.  I use antibiotics much quicker than most farms will - because I notice it so soon.  Example: a few nights ago I noticed one of the calves didn't eat as much grain as normal (yes, there may be 80-90 calves in domes at a time, but I know each of them) and when I stopped to look at her more closely she was holding on ear slightly lower than another, which is a sign of pneumonia.  She had a slight fever but again, not something most people would treat for.  I did.  The next day she had gotten to the point she didn't want to drink her milk BUT she was already treated and her medicine started working soon after, it takes 24 hours to start making much difference.  I try catch that they are sick before the calves themselves really notice, the sooner they are treated, the better they will recover.

Of course, dry bedding, keeping everything clean, and being consistent will help prevent them ever getting sick.  But once they are sick...not much other than using medications that you can do.   

Offline Pookie

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Re: Where are you getting YOUR "organic" products?
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2014, 11:02:52 AM »
I'm just wondering . . . if there was a way to give them vitamin C, which is very helpful for the immune system (to fight the viruses) and more probiotic (like the yogurt), if it would help them recover faster.  I don't know anything about calves, so I don't know if they could eat plants that are high in vitamin C (maybe if liquified?), but just to toss this out there, other than citrus, some other good plant sources are berries, green and leafy vegetables, tomatoes, cantaloupe, cauliflower, potatoes and peppers.  I wonder if they would drink, say, a "smoothie" of green/leafy veggies, cantaloupe and/or cauliflower, with some probiotic mixed in?   :-\  I know it would be a ton of work, esp. with all the calves you have there, but I'm just thinking out loud.  Or, if they're still nursing, give the veggies (or maybe alfalfa or clover?) to their mothers and then the calves could get it through the milk?
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 03:17:01 PM by Pookie »
2-4-6-8  Please don't over-vaccinate!
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