Parenting-Furkids

Cats => Cat Food And Nutrition => Topic started by: Middle Child on June 12, 2016, 10:01:08 AM

Title: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 12, 2016, 10:01:08 AM
Okay.  By the end of this week Mazy cat will be completely transitioned to the Rad Cat HPP product.  Thankfully I had enough of the old product to be able to do this transition excruciatingly slowly.

But now it's over, it will be all HPP.

So the next step is to get her back on the Cornish hen.  I had to stop the CH for a period of time, while transitioning to the HPP, because I needed to use the place where her CH meal was for the HPP meal. Well that and, during all those months I was working overtime and she wasn't getting her fasting times and she was puking almost daily.  The CH was just not fitting in to that whole nightmare episode.

Adding the CH back in, again, will have to be done very very slowly.  Tiny bits each day until I am sure she's able to handle meals of it again.

Okay. So that's where we are.  However, I have been working at changing the amounts fed at certain meal times, because I am STILL not getting to bed early enough.  I have got to find a way to get to bed by 9 pm.  The problem is, getting enough food into Mazy cat by 9 pm has just not been working out.

Things I have been working on are

 1) getting her to be able to eat a larger serving at one time.  The result of this so far is that..depending on the meal period, she can now eat .55oz of Rad Cat at one sitting and keep it down.  That is HUGE!  Also, again depending on the meal period, she can eat .45oz in "chunks" mixed with EZcomplete and water.  (see pic for her current chunk size) Again, that is huge.  I still break down most of her meals smaller portions, most are still between .25oz and .35oz.

and 2) getting more into her at earlier meals so I am not having to stay up so late to get her full quota of food into her at night.

One of the problems is, the more she eats at one time, if it turns out to be a regurgitation day, the more she brings back up.  I'm still struggling with my despair reaction that comes every time she regurgitates.  I know this is how it is going to be for her, forever, so why can I not just ACCEPT it and not feel so darn terrible, frustrated and hopeless every time it happens.

Anyway.  So I have gradually increased her breakfast meals and lunch meals, by tiny increments, to reduce the size of her bed time meal.  The goal is to reduce her bed time meal to about .3 oz.  So I can give it to her as one serving at 8:45 with her Vets-Best in it all three cats having their final bed time meal together, and then go to bed. The issue is, from the time I get home from work until I go to bed I am feeding her practically every half hour, to get enough into her for the day.

Right now I've got the bed time meal down to .66 oz.  She gets .4oz at 9:00 and the last .26oz with Vet's-best at 9:45. I've got to get another .36 moved to breakfast and lunch.

Yikes, how long have I been rambling?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on June 12, 2016, 10:16:10 AM

Yikes, how long have I been rambling?

I don't know how you do it. Really I don't. You have my utmost respect for the way you do SO much for Mazy to keep her as healthy as she is. I know I was running in circles when I had to split up 2 meals into 4 per day to get Vlad back to where he is today. Then it was awful trying to get him back down to 2 with a bedtime snack.

Ramble? Talk away. In case you haven't noticed, sometimes it's how I get everything into my head and work things out for Vlad. Who knows who might learn something that helps their own pets by our "rambling?"
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 12, 2016, 10:31:13 AM
As it stands now, here are her meals:

5:45 a.m. ( after an 8 hour fast) - .25 oz RC chicken with s.boulardii and a tiny bit of pork pancreas glandular powder to cover the sb taste.

6:15 a.m. - .4 oz RC chicken with a capsule of egg yolk lecithin.

(the other two are not fed at this time)

7:15 a.m. - .55 (!!!!) oz RC turkey with cosequin and d-mannose

(the other two get their breakfast at 7:15.  Queen Eva eats .48 oz and Jennie gets 1.1 oz, split in two meals because she insists on 2 meals, it makes her think she is getting more)

1:45 pm (give or take) lunch time - .46 oz RC turkey with vets-best and water split into two servings ten minutes apart

(Queen Eva gets ..67 oz and Jennie gets .4 oz, single servings)

4:45 pm-5:30 pm (depending on when I get home) - .6 oz RC split between 2 servings 10 minutes apart.  The first serving (.25oz) contains s.boulardii and a little of the pancreas, the second serving (.35 oz) contains one capsule of egg yolk lecithin

(the other two are not fed at this time)

6:30-7:15 (depending on what time the pre-meal was) - 1.2 oz of muscle meat with EZcomplete.  this meal is divided into three portions, the EZcomplete, while using the correct amount is added to only two portions.  She likes it, but for some reason will not eat the EZ three servings in a row. So she gets .7 oz with EZ and .5 oz plain

 (these meals alternate between Coleman certified organic verified non-GMO project chicken breast and chicken thigh)

Okay so the 1.2 oz is split like this: .7oz of meat has EZ added, mixed with a little water and is split into two serving.  The first serving of that .7 oz is .45oz (including EZ and water).  The second serving, half hour later is not given all at once (I'm not sure how much is left in oz, but I give her half, make her wait five minutes, then give her the other half)

(the other two are fed their full meals)

All this takes us to 8 pm. - 8:15 pm.  If I don't wait a full hour between the second EZ serving and that final .5 oz of chunk meal (plain) it all comes back up.

8:00 (hopefully)-8:15 pm - .5 oz plain chicken breast or thigh split between 2 servings 10 minutes apart.

And then, she needs an hour between that and what should be her final meal of the day.  But because the final meal is still too big for one serving with Vets-Best and water added I am having to stay up an additional 45 minutes.  She gets the .4 oz RC at 9:00 (hopefully) with her Proviable DC and the final .26 with VB and water at 9:45.  (I've tried 9:30, but it's too soon)

I've got to work out a way to get that .36 oz into morning and lunch meals, so all I have left to give her at 9:00 is .3 oz of VB and probiotic, then I can get to bed at a decent time and maybe not be so flipping exhausted all the time.



Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 12, 2016, 10:32:15 AM
When she's back on the Cornish hen I think I'm going to make that meal her 7:15 am breakfast meal.  The Cornish hen meal is a modified prey model meal with liver and egg shell calcium. I'll have to move her cosequin to the EYL meal I think.  I don't like to mess too much with her Cornish Hen meal because it is her favorite meat.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 12, 2016, 11:00:22 AM
I don't know how you do it. Really I don't. You have my utmost respect for the way you do SO much for Mazy to keep her as healthy as she is. I know I was running in circles when I had to split up 2 meals into 4 per day to get Vlad back to where he is today. Then it was awful trying to get him back down to 2 with a bedtime snack.

Ramble? Talk away. In case you haven't noticed, sometimes it's how I get everything into my head and work things out for Vlad. Who knows who might learn something that helps their own pets by our "rambling?"

Thank you Dee.  Really, I just do what needs to be done you know? Each step has evolved over time, it's not like a sudden routine change, it al kind of blends in after a while.

I will not deny that I get very tired and discouraged some times. It IS a lot of work.  But I don't see that I have any other choice. Mazy cat's health and well being depend on me.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on June 12, 2016, 12:22:08 PM
Quote
  I'm still struggling with my despair reaction that comes every time she regurgitates.  I know this is how it is going to be for her, forever, so why can I not just ACCEPT it and not feel so darn terrible, frustrated and hopeless every time it happens.

Because there's always that hope that things will get better, and the regurgitating makes it hard to hold on to that hope.  I know exactly how you feel.  I don't know if it will help, but try to remember that her quality of life and her health are SO much better because of what you've learned, and because you never gave up looking for ways to improve her life and health.  She's as healthy and happy as she is because of YOU.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy  GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 04, 2016, 09:03:33 AM
Oh thank you Pookie!  I never saw that last post. I was about to start a thread with almost an identical topic and I saw this one right on top so I'll continue here I guess.

The endless quest continues, to get the right amount of food into Mazy cat and get to bed by 9 p.m.

I won't bother typing out all the minute by minute details this time but I've got her eating 1.7 ounces of Rad cat at her breakfast meals (4 servings from 5:30 am to 7:30 am) plus supplements.

The downside of this is that at lunch time (about 1:30) she is not hungry enough to eat more than .25 oz.  So that backfired as a way to get more into her before evening, but it does make it easier on me at lunch, because she can eat that in one serving.  And if she brings it back up, it's not as much to replace later.

The evening feeding is still the problem.  I just cannot get enough food into her in the time allotted, and have a life too.  I want, NEED to be able to have my walk after work.  My physical and mental health depend on it.  But unless I come straight home from work every day, I can't get enough food into her without staying up until 10 pm. 

Which not only does not get me into bed early enough, it also doesn't get her that essential 8 hour fasting period.

So now I'm trying something different.  Instead of aiming for that 4 or 4.1 ounces a day I've settled on 3.6 oz a day, with making up the difference on Wednesdays (egg yolk day) and the weekends.  Getting MORE than 4 ounces on those days to make up for the less on the other days.

This has been in the works for about 2 weeks and so far she has not lost any weight, so I will continue.

She is back on the Cornish hen, and she gets bone broth every day too, so that may be adding calories.  I don't skim the fat in her broth either.

She is regurgitating once every 3-4 days though.

Next vet appointment will be for the Endocrine imbalance tests. I have not scheduled that yet.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on September 04, 2016, 05:04:27 PM
Quote
This has been in the works for about 2 weeks and so far she has not lost any weight, so I will continue.
   thumbsup1

Quote
She is regurgitating once every 3-4 days though.
   :(

Quote
Next vet appointment will be for the Endocrine imbalance tests.
   thumbsup1 thumbsup1

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on September 05, 2016, 08:51:22 PM
What Lola said (all of it).   ;D

Your Mazy Meal Plan makes sense.  I know with raw feeding, some try to balance (bone, meat, organ) over the course of the day, others balance over the course of a week, and this schedule of getting enough calories over the course of a week sounds similar, and it (knock on wood) sounds like it's also working.   thumbsup1  Great job!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

BTW, thanks for the update.  I wondered how she was doing with her regurgitation.  I'm sorry it's happening as often as it is.   :(  GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 11, 2016, 08:06:13 AM
This is still working. Mazy cat's weight is remaining exactly the same. Not even a half ounce fluctuation.  Regurgitation pattern remains every 4 days. No pattern as to which meal.  This last time it was sometime after the 13 hour fast. When I got home from the concert  I was extremely careful with feeding tiny meals slowly for all of them (I fed By Nature Organic to make it easy on myself), and didn't see anyone puke.

But the next morning I found the pile of regurgitated canned food downstairs on the floor.  I have to assume it was Mazy cat.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on September 11, 2016, 09:22:23 PM
I'm glad she's maintaining her weight (have I mentioned lately how awesome you are?   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy), but sorry to hear about the continuing regugitation episodes.

GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 25, 2016, 05:00:23 PM
Thanks Pookie.  The time between regurgitation episodes has increased to 6 days.  So we're going in the right direction.  She did lose half an ounce over this past week.  That may be because last Sunday, instead of getting her extras, she had even less than usual, it was a rough day, puked twice, after that I gave her only bone broth for the rest of the day.

I'll try to get a few extra servings into her this week to get that half ounce back.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on September 26, 2016, 08:37:08 PM

1/2 an oz isn't much..even for a cat. What my pea brain is thinking...  my weight can fluctuate quite a bit within a 24 hour period.  Wouldn't a cat's weight also?   :-\
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 27, 2016, 05:10:19 AM
Probably though they don't usually. I'm not worried about that half ounce..unless it continues.

Mazy cat is having some trouble with arthritis in her hips and back legs.  As soon as the temperature dropped I noticed it.  I've got the selfwarming beds out.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 03, 2016, 09:03:50 PM
Forgot to update yesterday.  Mazy cat lost another ounce.  :(

Conversely she went 9 days without regurgitating (today would have been 10, but she brought up lunch.)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 03, 2016, 09:48:19 PM
Forgot to update yesterday.  Mazy cat lost another ounce.  :(

Conversely she went 9 days without regurgitating (today would have been 10, but she brought up lunch.)

Hmmmm . . . knowing how dedicated you are about her meals, I wonder why she lost weight?   :-\
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 04, 2016, 06:23:44 PM
I don't know Pookie.  I've increased her food even more this week.  Of course this means I am back to no walks after work, I have to come straight home in order to have enough time to get enough food into her.

This happened last year at this time too. First she had that week of diarrhea, then I couldn't get the weight back on her for months.  Then suddenly it all went away.

So I just don't know.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 04, 2016, 11:12:48 PM
This happened last year at this time too. First she had that week of diarrhea, then I couldn't get the weight back on her for months.  Then suddenly it all went away.

Since this happened last year, perhaps it's the change in season and daylight hours, and her body needs time to adjust?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 05, 2016, 04:55:42 AM
Could be.  She threw up her bed time meal last night. Sigh....
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 05, 2016, 09:26:57 PM
Could be.  She threw up her bed time meal last night. Sigh....

 :( grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on October 06, 2016, 08:32:54 AM
 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 09, 2016, 09:03:30 AM
Mazy cat gained back an ounce this past week.  In spite of regurgitating every 2 days.  Then she puked up her entire breakfast this morning too.

I'm putting her on canned for the day.  I'm sick of wasting all my hard work and money in puke.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 09, 2016, 07:53:19 PM
That's wonderful that she gained!  So is she back to her normal weight now?

I'm so sorry about the puking.   :(

grouphug GoodVibes grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on October 10, 2016, 08:51:54 AM
Are you adding the EZ to every meal?  JUST a suggestion... try a few meals without it.  My reason for the suggestion...Roxy (my barfer) and EZ don't seem to get along.  I can't imagine why though.  If I had to pull a guess out of thin air... it is something her body isn't used to.  ??
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 10, 2016, 11:39:19 AM
Mazy cat gets EZcomplete for supper meal. 1.2 ounces of either chicken thigh, chicken breast or cornish hen.  I separate .4 oz of the meat for her to eat plain.  The other .8 oz is mixed with the appropriate amount of EZc for the entire 1.2 ounces of meat, and her bone broth. She eats that .8 oz/EZc/broth in 4 servings, then has the last .4 oz plain.  It takes 3 hours to feed her that.

The rest of her intake is Rad Cat.

 She has no trouble with the EZc and has never regurgitated a meal with it. She's been having it since February.

Nothing has changed in all these years.  Sometimes she goes 7-10 days, once in a very great while she goes 14-21 days (but when she does that she usually pukes 3 or 4 days in a row once she starts) and sometimes she goes every 2 or 3 days.

No pattern other than that.  Every time I think I've found something that helps, it only helps for a short time then she goes back to the above.

It's just the way it is for her. I don't believe it will ever change. I'll have the IgA testing next time she's at the vet (hopefully not until January) and see if that shows anything.  But I am not putting her through extra trips for that blood test. Any other cat I might, but it's just too much for Mazy cat.  I won't stop her 6 month check ups but I am not bringing her in for an extra trip unless she loses condition or has some emergency..

PS Thank yo for trying to think of ideas for her.  I don't mean to sound ungrateful.   HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on October 10, 2016, 08:56:33 PM
Quote
PS Thank yo for trying to think of ideas for her.  I don't mean to sound ungrateful. 

It is all good.   ;D
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 16, 2016, 10:05:37 AM
That's wonderful that she gained!  So is she back to her normal weight now?

I'm so sorry about the puking.   :(

grouphug GoodVibes grouphug

Well, she had a half ounce to go.  This morning weighs in at the same as last week, so while not losing, still has to gain that other half ounce.

Still regurgitating every 2-3 days. I'm starting to wonder about the Vets'-Best formula change, and if that's the culprit.

I think I forgot to post about that here, I'll need to make a thread.  Back in early summer they changed the formula some what.  They claim it hasn't changed all that much and the cellulose that is listed on the new label, was always in there, but it just wasn't on the label before.  I am having my doubts about that now.

I did a very slow transition from the old formula to the new.  Queen Eva and Jennie aren't affected by it. But they only get Vets-Best once a week.

Anyway, she's maintaining now, but it's, again, costing me my after work walk to manage it.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on October 16, 2016, 11:35:11 AM

I think I forgot to post about that here, I'll need to make a thread.  Back in early summer they changed the formula some what.  They claim it hasn't changed all that much and the cellulose that is listed on the new label, was always in there, but it just wasn't on the label before.  I am having my doubts about that now.



I'm still going to contend that pine-tree cellulose (it's that unless it specifically says "vegetable cellulose") is BAD, BAD, BAD! Remember the report  where it proved that "purified cellulose" caused changes in digestion of other cellulose? Well if it changes the digestion of one thing, it's going to change the digestion of other things:

Such preparations of cellulose have very different physical properties from the cellulose present in the plant cell wall and so lead to conflicting views of the role of cellulose in the gut. For example, in the work of Van Soest's group10 11 in which healthy volunteers were fed controlled diets with the addition of cellulose from either cabbage, bran, or a purified cellulose (Solka Floc), average cellulose digestibility was 74% on the control diet, 75% in the cabbage, about 53% in the bran but only 25% from the Solka Floc. Moreover, the purified cellulose depressed the breakdown of other cell wall polysaccharides and reduced cellulose digestion in the subjects when they were changed to other diets. The capacity of colonic microorganisms to digest cellulose in vitro was also tested and in these studies the purified cellulose was virtually indigestible, while that from cabbage was extensively degraded. Similar findings were reported in 1936 by Williams and Olmsted' who fed three medical students cellulose from a wide range of food sources and observed that while 60-70% from carrot and cabbage was digested only 0-10% of a purified cellulose was broken down and 3-25% from cotton seed hulls.

http://gut.bmj.com/content/25/8/805.full.pdf
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 17, 2016, 08:42:27 PM
Still regurgitating every 2-3 days. I'm starting to wonder about the Vets'-Best formula change, and if that's the culprit.

I think I forgot to post about that here, I'll need to make a thread.  Back in early summer they changed the formula some what.  They claim it hasn't changed all that much and the cellulose that is listed on the new label, was always in there, but it just wasn't on the label before.  I am having my doubts about that now.

I did a very slow transition from the old formula to the new.  Queen Eva and Jennie aren't affected by it. But they only get Vets-Best once a week.

Anyway, she's maintaining now, but it's, again, costing me my after work walk to manage it.

 :(

You may be on to something with the Vet's Best.  You're very intuitive so (no pun intended) you might want to "go with your gut."  Esp. after reading DeeDee's post.  I'm wondering if there's some other fiber you can give her that would be gentler and easier for her to tolerate.

grouphug GoodVibes grouphug

Edit:  Totally weird thought, but I'm tossing it out there anyway.  I have to say, my brain turned to oatmeal early yesterday and hasn't solidified yet, so this may be bogus.  That said . . . I'm wondering if grinding up a small carrot, very fine, and adding (some of) that to Mazy's food would be a good fiber replacement for the Vet's Best.  I know you said pumpkin's not an option, and psyllium absorbs water.

I don't know if she'd eat it.  Even if she did, I don't know if she would tolerate it or if it would work.  It was just something that popped in my head as a possible option for fiber.   :-\

I did a super-quick search for other fiber options and found this on chia seeds.  Others would have to do more research, but I wanted to at least share (this is a pro-chia site, so it's not objective):

http://www.chiaseedspot.com/chia-seeds-for-cats-a-win-win/

Quote
Chia seed is a type of herb that grows annually. It grows up to approximately three feet long and has tiny leaves with white and purple flowers.

Quote
  It is usually converted in gel-form which is used to cure digestive problems or upset stomachs among cats. Chia works simply to treat your cat’s stomach anxiety.

Due to its gel-like property, chia seed can hold liquid twelve times its size and act as coating to the intestines and lining of the stomach to ease discomfort in cats.

Desirable taste – It is not difficult to feed chia seeds to your cat because of its neutral taste. It doesn’t affect flavors or typical taste of a cat food. In other words, feeding your cat with chia seeds will not produce an undesirable taste. 

One thing that concerns me is that it holds liquid.  That's one reason why I'd be more interested in superfine chopped carrots.  I don't think it would hold nearly as much water, if any.  They're mostly water themselves, and fiber.

Ok, "brain fart" over.   :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 18, 2016, 05:12:10 AM
Thanks you guys.  I'm going to go back to plain Slippery Elm Bark, and marshmallow .  Those are the two active ingredients in the Vets-Best, aside from the psyllium, anyway.  She gets psyllium in the Rad Cat and I'll see how she does without it.

I have the marshmallow already but will have to order the SEB, it's been a long time since I used it.  Last night at bed time instead of the Vet's-Best I gave her a tiny pinch of marshmallow.

Pookie I really don't want to introduce anything drastically new to her at this stage. I think they are lying about the cellulose always being in the V-B, or perhaps it's the type used that's changed, maybe it used to be plant based and they went to the cheaper pine roots.  Makes me gag thinking about it.

Either way, since the change in formula her puking has been steady at 2-3 days, I think once she went 7.

I am going to let them know too.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 18, 2016, 06:25:20 AM
Pookie, carrots were actually something I tried with Ootay Princess back the the early days of her chronic constipation.  She loved peas, corn, green beans and watermelon,  so I thought she might eat them.   She did at first, but after the second time she balked and refused to eat them again. (shredded into her food)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on October 18, 2016, 04:53:25 PM
Oregano provides fiber. What about some of that? I know some people use the oil as an antibiotic for their pets, but the plant itself provides fiber. So would catnip.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 18, 2016, 09:43:22 PM
Oregano provides fiber. What about some of that? I know some people use the oil as an antibiotic for their pets, but the plant itself provides fiber. So would catnip.

I wondered about cat grass, but given how long it sits inside Mazy Cat when she eats the outdoor grass, I figured it anything like that might do the same.

I was just tossing out carrots as a more natural source of cellulose (fiber) than what might be in the VB.  It's a starch, too, in a way, but I was thinking it wouldn't be as high-sugar/starch as, say, potato.  But like I said before, it was a brain fart, and I totally understand not wanting to introduce anything new to her.

Thanks you guys.  I'm going to go back to plain Slippery Elm Bark, and marshmallow .  Those are the two active ingredients in the Vets-Best, aside from the psyllium, anyway.  She gets psyllium in the Rad Cat and I'll see how she does without it.

I totally forgot you'd given her the SEB and marshmallow!  Sounds like a good plan, esp. since you've used it with her before.  Hmmm... ok, another brain fart coming . . . I wonder if you could combine the SEB and marshmallow and make your own version of VB, using say, gelatin as a binder.  Like you don't have enough to do.   :-[  But even if it was something you were willing to try, definitely not now.  You've got your hands full already.

Yours truly really needs to cease and desist with the brain farts . . .  :-[
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 19, 2016, 04:51:51 AM
Pookie, any ideas are fine and welcome. Don't worry and it's a good idea.  I know of someone who does that (combines marshmallow and SEB), but I don't see any reason to take that extra step.  I'll just put the doses right in her food, each day.

I haven't used the marshmallow before, just the SEB. I have it because I bought it, intending to use it.  I went to the Vets-Best because it was easier, it had both those things in it already.

 I wasn't using it for the fiber, and I am not even sure she needs the psyllium, , but if she does I can get the Konsyl psylium too.  It's the mucilage and anti-inflammatory properties I was after, not the fiber.

While I'm waiting for the SEB to get here I am grdually reducing the vet's-best
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on October 20, 2016, 06:36:44 PM
Vet's Best can say/claim what they want... I believe SOMETHING changed, when they changed the size.  I used it as a food topper to introduce new proteins, textures, etc.  It was my go to "miracle" for years. 

After the tablet size change...  pffft! 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 20, 2016, 07:00:16 PM
Vet's Best can say/claim what they want... I believe SOMETHING changed, when they changed the size.  I used it as a food topper to introduce new proteins, textures, etc.  It was my go to "miracle" for years. 

After the tablet size change...  pffft! 


This is a new change.  It's back to the original size/shape.  It's the ingredients that have been changed.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 20, 2016, 07:10:21 PM
I'm going to go ahead and get the Konsyl and just mix my own.  A little Konsyl, a little SEB and a little marshmallow root in the same two meals she was getting the Vet's-Best in.

The major difference between the two will be the digestive enzymes that are in the V-B.  But I can add those at home too. I have the Drs Best digestive enzymes still (no relation to Vets-Best).

Jennie & Queen Eva can have the V-B (they get it one meal a week, Sunday night) but when it's gone I won't be buying it again.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on October 21, 2016, 09:49:28 AM
They changed it again?  Or maybe just the label finally caught up with the previous change.  ??

I just know when it changed size, it no longer worked for my use.  AND barfing was an issue for a few in my bunch, IF they did eat food that was topped with VB.  With so many variables, it took me a while to pin down the exact cause.  As awful as it sounds, I finally fed a food that I knew was issue free :)... topped it with VB... waited for the "results." 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 23, 2016, 08:44:18 AM
Mazy cat is maintaining her weight, with my coming straight home from work every day.  I am desperate to start walking again, soon it will be too dark to walk after work and I really really really need to get some exercise before that happens.

She's been off the V-B completely for 3 days.  The SEB hasn't come yet, I'm using only the marshmallow root at the moment.

Regarding the V-B change, the change in formula happened this summer.  Hundreds of people wrote to them to complain, mostly about palatability, and they sent out free samples of a newer batch that was "more palatable" but the list of "inactive ingredients" on the label are the same crappy ingredients.  I actually received 2 free bottles a month apart as I kept writing, trying to make them understand that there would now be many cats who could not use this product, due to the change in ingredients.

The SEB should be here this week, and I ordered Konsyl (pure psyllium) too, in case she needs it.  I'd rather have it handy, instead of having to wait for it.  If I never need to use it, I still won't consider it money wasted.

I am going to try something new, George's aloe vera.  Pookie was it you who suggested aloe a long time ago?  I've been very resistant to it up until now, but a number of people in the IBD group are using it with great results.  It was Laurie Goldstein, my raw mentor and co-founder of EZc who has the most experience with it, she's been using it for years, first with her lymphoma cart, and now with several others.  She uses a vet who studies and uses Chinese herbal medicine.

Apparently it is the latex in the aloe that is toxic to cats, and George's removes the latex.  It is not organic.

The method is to mix the aloe with SEB and to syringe a half hour before a meal.  I think frequent syringing will cause Mazy cat too much stress so I am thinking about how to administer it, a way to get her to eat it on her own.

These are the products I am using or am about to use, for Mazy cat

George's Aloe

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0001VKEBS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Konsyl psyllium

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QIZMY00/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Slippery Elm Bark

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UE25XQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Marshmallow seed

https://smile.amazon.com/Natures-Way-Marshmallow-Root-Capsules/dp/B000302280/ref=sr_1_1_s_it?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1477230130&sr=1-1&keywords=nature%27s+way+marshmallow+root

The Aloe is the only product I have never used with cats before.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 25, 2016, 06:07:20 AM
Started her back on the SEB last night.  Maybe started with too much, though it was only 1/8 tsp, she didn't seem to want to eat much supper afterward.  She ate part of her EZc meal but balked at the rest of it, but did eat some plain chicken breast.

This morning she has eaten breakfast as usual and no sign of digestive upset.

She's pooping but I'm wondering if she has a bit of a back up in there from going off the psyllium so suddenly.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 29, 2016, 08:28:22 AM
I want to keep this thread going, but I'll reference the going off psyllium thread here, too since it is part of it.

http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?topic=4640.msg34176#new

Mazy cat is doing really well but it's still early days.  The psyllium (and aloe) hasn't come yet, and she is getting just a tiny bit of SEB and marshmallow root at her bed time meal.  I have to 'help' the meal with some PureBites dust or she balks at it.  She never used to care about the taste of the SEB when I used it before, but I think that was in canned food.

Her poops are regular, and much smaller than when on the V-B. I am not surprised by that of course. I am not going to add the psyllium as a regular part of her diet unless she needs it.  I'm going to stick to working up the dose of SEB and MR for now.

I am keeping the home warmer than I ever have before, in order to help with her arthritis.  I admit it is nice to come home to a house already warm. But then I start doing stuff and get too hot.  I am used to keeping my house cold in the winter, usually around 60.  But I think Mazy cat needs it to be at least 68-70.

I'm going to reference that thread here too so I can find details when I need them

http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?topic=4607.0
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 30, 2016, 08:12:48 AM
Mazy cat lost an ounce and a half this week.  I've gone back and totaled averages for the last few weeks, checking weights.  She maintains on a weekly average of 3.88 ounces a day, last week she had, on average 3.6 ounces a day. 

That was those two days she was so poorly from going off the vets-best. One day she had only 2.47 oz and one day 3 oz.  The rest of the week I had her up to 3.8 or more but it wasn't enough to make up for the two deficit days.

On the 3.6 ounces a day 5 days a week and 4.6 ounces a day two days a week, that averages out to exactly 3.88 ounces a day and that is what she maintains on.

But since she lost this week I'm going to have to somehow get extra into her each day before going back to the 3.6 ounces 5 days (so I can have a life) and 4.6 ounces (on egg yolk days) 2 days.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 30, 2016, 09:32:41 PM
 :(  grouphug GoodVibes grouphug GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 01, 2016, 07:08:49 PM
I don't want to jinx it so I'll just say things are going okay so far.  Her poops are chock full of fur.  Just masses of it. The only way I can get the SEB and MMR into her is with a tiny amount of canned at bed time every night.  .2 oz (2/10 of an ounce) with the SEB and MMR. She won't touch any raw if I add those things to it.

Which is fine as long as the By Nature Organic holds out but if this is to continue this way I am going to need another canned I can use for her, because the By N expires in May, and, as yu know, there is no more of it..

I have not used the psyllium or the aloe.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 03, 2016, 07:11:42 PM
 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed

bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 03, 2016, 08:51:07 PM
I keep forgetting to ask . . . and maybe I shouldn't because I may jinx something . . . has she vomited/regurgitated since you stopped the VB, or at least, are the episodes further apart?

Major  fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 04, 2016, 05:42:40 AM
All is well.  Don't want to jinx anything with too many details at this point. Her poops are just containing massive amounts of fur.

I've added the digestive enzymes to the mix now.  She's getting 1/8 tsp SEB, a pinch of MMR and a pinch of digestive enzymes in .2 oz of canned (By Nature Organic) at bed time. No psyllium.

I've searched and searched and cannot find a replacement for the By Nature.  It will run out in May. Maybe by then she will be used to the new tastes and will accept it in raw. So far she will not, even when I try using an incentive, like forti flora (hate giving that to her) or PureBites.

It's why I went to the full time use of the Vet's-Best in the first place.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 04, 2016, 06:15:19 AM
All is well.  Don't want to jinx anything with too many details at this point. Her poops are just containing massive amounts of fur.

I'm glad she's pooping it out!

Sending purrs that things continue to go well . . .  HeadButt HeadButt GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 05, 2016, 05:39:23 PM
Last night Mazy cat didn't want any more to eat after 9:30.  Meaning when the 11:00 bed time meal was served she didn't get out of the hammock.  I know better than to try to insist, even though I hate for her to be deficit on any day.

Since I didn't get out of bed until after 8 this morning, and she didn't get fed until 8:50 she had almost a 12 hour fast.  I think it did her good.  There was tons of poop in the litter boxes, and I can recognize which is whose most of the time, I think Mazy went a couple of times.  That long fast really helped her clean out.

I gave everyone a few pieces of PureBites to soak up any bile that might be building in the tum before feeding, that's why she didn't eat her first serving until almost 9.  Jennie and Queen Eva didn't really need it, they go almost 10 hours without eating every night/morning and have no problem with it.  Mazy cat's pieces were tiny shreds, Jennie and Queen Eva each had a nice big chunk.

Mazy cat had very tiny servings spread out from 8:50-11:45 to get her entire breakfast into her, plus what would have been her lunch serving.  No puke.

For lunch she had the last bit that she should have had at bed time the night before. So she was all caught up by 1:30.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 05, 2016, 05:58:06 PM
 DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed

GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 05, 2016, 10:28:58 PM
Tonight I took a chance and gave Mazy cat her bed time serving with SEB, MMR and DE (digestive enzymes) in a little bit of Rad Cat AND SHE ATE IT!!!

She's not quite up to 1/8 tsp of SEB, still just a pinch of the marshmallow root, and the tiny pinch of digestive enzymes.

 It appears Vet's-Best did me a favor, ruining the formula. Should have listened to Lola earlier about it, but up until this change, I thought she was doing okay with it.  After all, I'd been, using it for years.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on November 06, 2016, 05:33:40 PM
Sounds like things are improving.  YAY!
Do you add water to the Pure Bites?  I have never bought them or fed them... just heard you talking about them.  Curious 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 06, 2016, 05:47:06 PM
Sounds like things are improving.  YAY!
Do you add water to the Pure Bites?  I have never bought them or fed them... just heard you talking about them.  Curious 

No, the PureBites is a treat.  It's freeze dried chicken breast only. Mazy cat is able to tolerate them in small shreds thankfully, though I don't use them for her often. And when I do, usually it's just a dusting of crumbs as incentive. I get the dog size for the bigger chunks.  Jennie likes big chunks and I like Queen Eva to have to work at a bigger chunk.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 10, 2016, 07:39:58 PM
She's accepting the SEB, MMR and now two drops of ACV in that last .2 oz Rad Cat meal at bed time. I don't dare breathe a word more.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 10, 2016, 07:41:11 PM
 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on November 10, 2016, 09:37:35 PM
No, the PureBites is a treat.  It's freeze dried chicken breast only. Mazy cat is able to tolerate them in small shreds thankfully, though I don't use them for her often. And when I do, usually it's just a dusting of crumbs as incentive. I get the dog size for the bigger chunks.  Jennie likes big chunks and I like Queen Eva to have to work at a bigger chunk.

Can it be used for the game "catch the kibble?"  :)  That is the ONLY thing I miss about kibble.... throwing it down the hallway and the cats chasing after it 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on November 10, 2016, 09:38:06 PM
I don't dare breathe a word more.

 thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 10, 2016, 09:53:04 PM
Can it be used for the game "catch the kibble?"  :)  That is the ONLY thing I miss about kibble.... throwing it down the hallway and the cats chasing after it 

It probably could be used that way.  It might not "roll" as well as a kibble, but does that matter when food is involved?   ;D
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 11, 2016, 07:06:00 AM
Can it be used for the game "catch the kibble?"  :)  That is the ONLY thing I miss about kibble.... throwing it down the hallway and the cats chasing after it 

Oh yes, we play that game with it all the time!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 13, 2016, 05:57:33 PM
Twenty days and five hours.  TWENTY days between regurgitation episodes. 

This was a doozy though, her first supper meal and her egg yolk from 3 hours previous, plus a sizable wad of fur.

She almost never brings up fur.  And it was foul, very foul, so that lot had been percolating since the egg yolk I guess.  Probably there is more fur down there blocking the exit.

I won't give her anything else until bedtime, and then just a small meal with her SEB and MR. She's up to weight so it won't hurt her to miss a couple servings tonight. And the empty tummy and the mucilage should help the wad blocking things move through.

Actually I'll give it earlier than bedtime so she gets a full 10 hour fast. That will help, too.

It's funny, you know she gave no indication that anything was brewing.  NO sign of urpy-ness at all.  In fact she was the epitome of the Cozy Cat all day.  Giving a contented prrrt every time I so much as looked at her.

Ah well, if twenty days is to be the new cycle, I can live with that.

So on we go.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on November 13, 2016, 07:05:54 PM
Yay!!!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 13, 2016, 10:39:35 PM
Twenty days and five hours.  TWENTY days between regurgitation episodes. 

Wow.  multistars  Is that a record for her?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 14, 2016, 04:51:57 AM
Thanks you guys.  She went 21 during the summer when she was having that mouth problem.  But those were unusual circumstances.  Often when she goes more than two weeks, when she does finally puke she will regurgitate several days in a row, as if going that long causes a worse build up.  But we'll see.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 14, 2016, 12:03:42 PM
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 19, 2016, 09:49:30 AM
Mazy cat had another regurgitation episode four days after the 20 day span ended.  It was her first supper meal and there was a big wad of fur in it. 11/17/16- That was the day I was home sick all day and her meal schedule was quite different with no 6 1/2 hour fast between breakfast and lunch.  It wasn't foul smelling and I was able to make up the difference in later meals.

Part of these next paragraphs are taken from other threads but want to keep things all in one place also. Some is added just now.

Sprinkled a little GLM over Mazy cat's supper on 11/18/16.  Just the tiniest bit.  She went crazy for it.  It has a pretty strong smell. So that's one good thing.  Now to see how her system handles it.  Of course I will being doing it extremely slowly.  By the time she's on a full dose and getting the benefit winter will be almost over.

Apparently it can take up to two months to begin to help with arthritis. And I've read it is recommended to start with a double dose, a loading dose, for the first few weeks, to hasten the benefit.  But of course I can't do that with Mazy cat.

1000 mg is a very small scoop, but still Ive got to start tiny with her.

I am using this brand:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00FAZRKJO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o04_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

(next part: don't know if it is begause of the GLM or not.  We'll see how it goes)


Mazy cat never did finish eating last night.  I've learned not to push it when she says "No".

Two missed meals and missed bedtime supplements....but if she'd eaten it and puked it all up, they would have been missed anyway, and she would have puked besides.  This morning there was a lot of Mazy cat poop in the litter box, and then she went down with me before breakfast and pooped even more.

So not only did she need to skip those meals, she needed the 10 1/2 hour fast, too.

I wonder if the GLM, tiny dose as it was, had anything to do with all the extra poop.  Interesting......
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on November 19, 2016, 10:35:12 AM
I forgot. Have you tried using MSM powder?

This article says GLM contains Chondroitin in it. I know Chondroitin can cause stomach upset in a lot of dogs (why I haven't tried joint supplements with Chondroitin in it yet--only glucosamine sulfate and MSM), but I don't know about cats.


Quote
https://www.inhousepharmacy.vu/p-940-mussel-nz-green-lipped-capsules.aspx

Treating osteoarthritis with Mussel

Mussel capsules contain an extract of the New Zealand Green Lipped Mussel (GLM) that is used for relieving symptoms of osteoarthritis.  Osteoarthritis is commonly known as wear and tear, because as joints age, or as a result of injury, cartilage degenerates and this can result in degenerative joint disease like osteoarthritis, where bones are no longer cushioned, causing pain and inflammation, which leads to limited mobility of that joint.  GLM extract in Mussel capsules is rich in omega-3 essential fatty acids (EFA), which have known anti-inflammatory properties; also glycosaminoglycans, particularly chondroitin, which is an important component of connective tissue particularly cartilage and tendons that keeps cartilage hydrated and flexible and this helps to maintain its role as the “shock absorbers” of the joints.  The EFAs found in GLM block the production of inflammatory chemicals like prostaglandins and leukotrienes and this mechanism is thought to be how they reduce inflammation in osteoarthritic joints and relieve symptoms including pain, swelling and reduced mobility of the joints.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 19, 2016, 02:52:47 PM
Thanks Dee!

Mazy cat gets glucosamine, chondrointin and MSN in the Cosequin for cats she takes.  She's been taking it for years, on and off for her so called "FLUTD".

 It's only the last year or so I put her on it daily, and I started more regularly, because of her symptoms of arthritis pain last winter.  She also already gets some green lipped mussel in the EZcomplete, but it's not enough to help her arthritis.

I just gave her another very tiny dusting of it.  She definitely likes the smell of it.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2016, 08:09:12 AM
Mazy cat is up to 1/2 scoop of the GLM but I think it's causing her some trouble now.

About an hour after she has the small meal with 1/2 scoop she starts burping and doing that swallowing, licking lips thing.  It passes after a few minutes.

 I'm probably increasing it too quickly, and need to slow down. On the other hand the EZcomplete does contain GLM, so it's not a completely new thing to her.

  She's very urpy this morning and I gave her a pepcid dose to stop acid reflex.  (Or "hot burps" which is what one of my former consumers calls heartburn)

Later I think I'll give her a little extra SEB too. I could have just done the SEB to start but I was afraid she would just bring it all back up.

She's on day 5 again between regurgitation episodes.  After the wonderful 20 days, she puked again 2 days later, and now not for 5 days.  I hope to get her through today, she'll be getting some rescue remedy later because my friend is coming over.

I think she's got some fur to be moved out her poops have not been as full of fur as they were.  I may have to break out the psyllium, but I was hoping not to need that until shedding season really starts up in February.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 24, 2016, 09:22:56 AM
I hope Mazy feels better soon!  Maybe she needs some ACV with the GLM?   :-\
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2016, 09:28:59 AM
I hope Mazy feels better soon!  Maybe she needs some ACV with the GLM?   :-\

Good idea! I'll try that next time. 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 04, 2016, 08:28:39 AM
The ACV added to the GLM meal seems to have done the trick, thanks Pookie.

Next step-adding more fat to her diet.  Her diet is 2/3 Rad Cat but the other meats she gets are very lean.  Even the thigh seems lean and I've been reading some things about fat and improved motility.

Since her chicken breasts and thiighs do not come with skin on, next time I am ready to make a batch of either for her, I'm going to have to buy a roaster chicken and take the skin off for Mazy cat.  I can cook the roaster in the slow cooker for myself (I'm not ready to make my next bone broth soup for a while) and add the skin to her meat.

Yesterday I did her cornish hen. Usually I throw the skin away.  This time I kept half the skin for adding to the meat (when putting it through the food processor) and kept the other half to add a little to her meals right now.

Someone somewhere in the fat discussion said 6-8% added fat would help. I don't know if that's accutrate or not but it's all I had to go on so I did some calculations.

(using on line calculators, not my brain)

6% of 1.2 oz of meat is .0072 oz. .0072 oz converted to grams is 2 grams.  Since it's Mazy cat and slow change is crucial I went with half that.  I simply added 1 gram of the put aside Cornish hen skin to her supper meal (chicken breast and EZc) last night.

I don't know if this is the right way to do it or not. The recommendation in the group was using lard, but Mazy cat can't have beef. True I've never tried her with grass fed, but she won't eat the Rad Cat beef, which is grass fed, so I'm sticking with all things poultry for her.

Any thoughts with my plans are welcome.  Do different skins have different fat content (weight for weight) or is it : fat is fat?  I'm going by: fat is fat for now.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 04, 2016, 11:48:08 AM
First, I'm glad the additional ACV is helping.   thumbsup1

Quote
Any thoughts with my plans are welcome.  Do different skins have different fat content (weight for weight) or is it : fat is fat?  I'm going by: fat is fat for now. 

 :-\  I'm going to leave that one to the others, but I'm leaning towards "fat is fat."  If there's a difference among poultry, it probably depends on what the birds were fed.  Since you're getting organic and (I think) free-range, I would guess they're all fairly similar, but again, I'll leave that to the experts.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 04, 2016, 12:02:57 PM
Thanks Pookie.

The Cornish hens and chicken I buy for Mazy cat is all certified organic, pasture raised non-GMO Verified meat.  The roasters I buy for myself (which the skin will be coming from), are also.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on December 04, 2016, 04:14:23 PM
Fat is fat from one species is what's true, but chicken skin isn't ALL fat.

But if you're talking about fat between different species, then it's not the same. Like this comparison between beef and chicken:

http://www.sparkpeople.com/food_vs_food.asp?food=1_5_steak_versus_chicken.

Unless you're not talking about the exact polysaturated/monosaturated/saturated aspects of it. In that case, you can consider it fat is fat. But some will have different calories than others anyway.

Is that what you're asking? If that's not what you're asking, then just ignore me. As for me, I'd just measure it the same no matter what species I was feeding. It will all round out eventually.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 04, 2016, 04:46:46 PM
Fat is fat from one species is what's true, but chicken skin isn't ALL fat.

But if you're talking about fat between different species, then it's not the same. Like this comparison between beef and chicken:

http://www.sparkpeople.com/food_vs_food.asp?food=1_5_steak_versus_chicken.

Unless you're not talking about the exact polysaturated/monosaturated/saturated aspects of it. In that case, you can consider it fat is fat. But some will have different calories than others anyway.

Is that what you're asking? If that's not what you're asking, then just ignore me. As for me, I'd just measure it the same no matter what species I was feeding. It will all round out eventually.

Thank you Dee.  I don't really know WHAT I am asking, really.  Just trying to figure it all out as I go along.  I'll have a read of the link, very helpful thank you!

All I know is I've been reading that fat is helpful in increasing motility and that is Mazy cat's biggest problem, motility.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 04, 2016, 05:42:41 PM
I've had a look at the link.  No that's not really what I am looking for but it is very interesting on it's own merits.

The reason I am using skin as the added fat is because of Mazy cat's special requirements.  Her meats are generally pretty lean. The Rad Cat seems to contain a good amount of fat, but skin, specifically Cornish hen skin and chicken skin,  is what I have available, to add more fat to Mazy cat's diet.

I just wish I knew ow to figure out how much to aim for, daily, ultimately.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on December 04, 2016, 08:00:28 PM
This article goes quite into a bit of detail, (I used the find feature and put in "fat" for 11 results throughout the page), and I found where it says how much a cat needs:


http://catcentric.org/nutrition-and-food/raw-feeding/a-frankenprey-and-whole-prey-feeding-guide/

Quote
Rabbit is generally a very lean protein source. Cats require more fat in their diet than we do (20% – 35%), so, while rabbit is great as a part of the diet, it shouldn’t be the sole protein source.


Does that help?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 04, 2016, 08:31:51 PM
Yes it is, except that I don't have any way of knowing exactly how much she is already getting. The Rad Cat is 27% (DMB) for the chicken, slightly less for the turkey.  It's the prey model/EZc portions that I am concerned with.

Tracy Dion (founder of) and CatCentric is a wonderful resource though, thanks for pointing me back to CatCentric.  She is actually a member here though hasn't posted in years.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 04, 2016, 10:37:25 PM
Remember, too, that there is also fat in the bone broth you're giving her.   :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 05, 2016, 04:53:33 AM
Remember, too, that there is also fat in the bone broth you're giving her.   :)

Yes, but not very much.  Those Cornish hens are lean.  I don't skim the fat, but it doesn't get into every serving when I portion it out.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 06, 2016, 06:46:19 PM
So far I've added 1 gram of fat a day (Cornish hen skin) to Mazy cat's diet. Started Sunday. She didn't want her fourth and final breakfast serving this morning so I didn't push it. She did eat her lunch (only a .25 ounce meal) and I added some SEB to it, in case she was still feeling a bit urpy.

I knew she was due for a poop tonight, and she went, right on schedule. Larger than normal poop, tons and tons and TONS of fur in it.It was softer too, her stools have been a bit firmer than I like since stopping the Vet's-Best. But this was softer INSIDE, where the fur was. Never saw that before. Maybe I should slow down a little more with the fat.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on December 06, 2016, 08:40:56 PM
I know that higher fat means less food. Someone in the food-co-op asked me why I didn't feed the high-fat beef (because too much fat & Vlad don't get along after having pancreatitis), because it cuts cost, and they eat less.

Well fats burn slower than anything else including protein. Here's an explanation of the order of burn:

Quote
Fats

Fats are burned as fuel during endurance exercise. They are tougher to break down, but they contain more energy than proteins and carbohydrates. According to Purdue University, fats don’t begin to break down until physical activity is well underway, usually about 20 minutes or more into a workout. The longer an endurance activity continues, the more the body turns to fat for fuel. So, if you are a marathon runner, you use fats to get across the finish line. But if you are a sprinter, you burn carbs to push ahead of the pack.

More at:  http://www.livestrong.com/article/520143-do-carbs-or-protein-burn-first/ (http://www.livestrong.com/article/520143-do-carbs-or-protein-burn-first/)

SO, the more fat you feed, the less likely she is to actually WANT to eat. Some animals are pigs, but others regulate amounts on their own. It might not be that she was feeling somewhat yucky, but might be that she was still feeling full.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 07, 2016, 04:51:36 AM
Thanks Dee.  I don't think that's the case with Mazy cat.  I am not replacing food with fat, I am adding fat.  And I am adding only about 3% at the moment (goal is 6%). Fat increases motility, one, and the leaner meats she is getting for supper/bedtime meals may be why I am having trouble keeping her weight stable.

She didn't finish her breakfast because she had a fur blockage.  (7 days since the last one) If I had insisted, she would have eaten it, and then puked everything up. (as happened a week ago)  Everything except the fur that is, because that was already too far down, lodged in the passage between stomach and intestine..

She was eager for lunch, so I am guessing the thing had started to move by then.  The added SEB in her lunch provided the mucilage to help it move, and after her supper pre-meal she pooped it all out.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on December 07, 2016, 09:44:49 AM
Thanks Dee.  I don't think that's the case with Mazy cat.  I am not replacing food with fat, I am adding fat. 


What I'm saying is that adding fat, no matter whether you're replacing it or just adding it, is going to make her fuller longer because it doesn't burn the same as carbs or protein. If she self-regulates amount of food by recognizing hunger, she'll skip or not eat all of her meals. She's one of the few cases where I'd think it lucky to have a self-regulator. She's less likely to get stuffed and barf.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 07, 2016, 01:15:52 PM
Thanks Dee. Mazy cat does not self regulate.  She simply eats what is put in front of her.  She never aks for food, even when I am sure she must be hungry.

If she is feeling urpy, most of the time she says no.  If I push the matter, she will eat, then bring it back up, so I am trying to train myself to stop urging her to eat when she says no.

That of course is not the only time she regurgitates.  Other times there is no warning at all.

There is no chance of scarf and barf, she is fed minuscule meals 12-13 times a day. :)

I do appreciate your input.  I understand that fat may create more of a feeling of satiety.  Cats are meant to have a diet high in protein and fat, from meat sources only. There is information now showing that added fat increases transit time, which is Mazy cat's biggest problem, poor motility.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on December 07, 2016, 07:38:15 PM
Just listening.....
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 07, 2016, 08:33:20 PM
Sometimes I get so tired of cleaning up puke I could just cry.  I do cry.  There is no end to it.  Tonight I had to throw away 20 cherished books because they were covered in puke.  I missed it, must have been washing dishes when she brought it all up. The remaining meals were eaten without incident.  She brought up her egg yolk/pre-meal and first supper meal.  All over the carpeted stairs and 20 books. I didn't find it until bed time when I was going down to check the door was locked. So instead of going to bed and relaxing into a peaceful sleep I have spent the last half hour throwing away books, scrubbing carpet and crying. This is my life.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 07, 2016, 09:47:52 PM
grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on December 08, 2016, 09:12:23 AM
:-*  :-* :-* GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 08, 2016, 04:14:30 PM
Thanks you guys.  Sometimes I just have to moan.  The worry and stress and anxiety and dread never ever ever goes away. I walk around with it all the time. 

When about four days go by and she doesn't puke, it eases up a tiny tiny bit and I stop cringing with every meal I server her, stop watching every move after she eats, like the day before, it had been 8 days since she last puked.  I had expected it the day before, when she refused breakfast, but she got through the day and then had that huge hair filled poop so I thought we were safe.

Instead I was blindsided by last night, and shift back into high anxiety gear again. Each time, over and over, the roller coaster never stops and I am very very very tired.

So sometimes I just have to moan.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on December 08, 2016, 04:59:13 PM
Moan away. I know what you're going through every time I leave the house and can't be back in a couple of hours. I'm always tense and wondering about him, and that tension only expands almost to the point that I can't breathe when I hit the garage door opener when I get home.

Am I going to walk in to a dog that's gotten overly stressed, for whatever reason, this time or not? My being tense when I walk in doesn't help him either. It's just crazy what we go through at times, isn't it?

Doesn't help your Fibro or my FMF either.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 08, 2016, 05:04:40 PM
Moan away. I know what you're going through ....

I went through that with Pookie and his sister for years, before I stopped feeding the dry.  And even after I changed their diet, I still wondered, just not at the stress level it had been before.

There's really nothing I can say that will help, just know that continued purrs are being sent your way.  GoodVibes grouphug  Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 09, 2016, 06:27:48 PM
Moan away. I know what you're going through every time I leave the house and can't be back in a couple of hours. I'm always tense and wondering about him, and that tension only expands almost to the point that I can't breathe when I hit the garage door opener when I get home.

Am I going to walk in to a dog that's gotten overly stressed, for whatever reason, this time or not? My being tense when I walk in doesn't help him either. It's just crazy what we go through at times, isn't it?

Doesn't help your Fibro or my FMF either.

I went through that with Pookie and his sister for years, before I stopped feeding the dry.  And even after I changed their diet, I still wondered, just not at the stress level it had been before.

There's really nothing I can say that will help, just know that continued purrs are being sent your way.  GoodVibes grouphug  Hug1

Thanks you guys.  I'm feeling a lot better today.  It just takes a few days, every time she pukes, to recover from it.  Of course during the difficult times when she's every other day, it's really awful.

Anyway I know what you mean about dreading leaving the house and dreading coming home.  I felt that way every minute of my life with Tolly after his seizures started.  I remember talking about it with my mother in the early days and she told me that that would go away after a while.

She was right to a certain extent, but still, the longer I was a way from home the higher my anxiety. 

It was like that with Ootay too, after her first stroke. I worried she would have a stroke right after I walked out, and be stumbling around suffering for hours and hours until I got home.  I never went anywhere I couldn't come home to every two hours in all those months after her first one, but thankfully both the second and third happened early in the morning and I was of course home.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 09, 2016, 10:10:42 PM
Quote
It was like that with Ootay too, after her first stroke. I worried she would have a stroke right after I walked out, and be stumbling around suffering for hours and hours until I got home.  I never went anywhere I couldn't come home to every two hours in all those months after her first one, but thankfully both the second and third happened early in the morning and I was of course home. 

I was like that for the last 1-2 months of Pookie's life.  Knowing the tumor could hemorrage and he'd be gone in an hour if that happened . . . I was afraid to leave the house, worried something would happen, and when I came home, I'd check on him.  Even going to bed I'd worry that something would happen overnight.  So I can totally relate.

GoodVibes grouphug GoodVibes grouphug   Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on December 10, 2016, 11:32:06 AM
Worrying about our furkids' well being is normal... and often mentally exhausting.  HUGS!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 23, 2016, 07:11:33 AM
9 days so I know she's due.  I'm trying to tweak feeding times to help her over the cycle for this time at least. Since I have the day off, even though I was out late last night (annual Christmas dinner with boss and the other members of our department) I was able to arrange for her to have a 9 hour fast instead of 8 hours.

  Today I am going to visit a friend and will be gone at least 8 hours, so there is another extra hour and a half (usual fast between breakfast and lunch is 6 1/2 hours).

Now it's the long holiday weekend so I can give her 10 hours overnight tonight, Saturday night and Sunday night.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 23, 2016, 11:59:49 AM
 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on December 23, 2016, 02:57:04 PM
I hope she surprises you... in a good way!  :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 24, 2016, 08:52:51 AM
She refused to come out for her bed time meal and for a change I listened to her so there was no puking.  So she ended up having a 12 1/2 hour fast.  This morning I gave her the aloe/SEB blob to soothe things in there and waited a half hour before feeding and am feeding her tiny amounts.  She did go down to poop but only two tiny bits came out.  That's not usual for her so she must really have a wad of fur that needs passing.

I am thankful, for this time at least, this is happening while I am home for 3 days, so I can really tweak her meal times and quantities and hopefully get her past it  (and try to sneak an extra meal in to make up for the lost meal last night)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 24, 2016, 04:10:57 PM
Nope, the 12 hour fast didn't work.  She's pooping okay but there hasn't been much fur in it the last few times.  And now it's lodged itself somewhere, all that fur that hasn't been coming out in the poop.  She puked up her pre-meal just now and the lunch came with it (lunch was 3 hours previously) Very foul.

No fur in the puke either.  It's just gd lodged down there and until it moves there isn't anything I can do for her.  I could give her some mineral oil I suppose, but I hate to do it.  the IBD group recommend Vaseline for 'emergency hairball relief" but petroleum jelly (hairball gels) have always backfired with Mazy cat.

I'm going to keep her to bone broth tonight, no more solid food, and see how she does.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on December 24, 2016, 04:39:50 PM
Nope, the 12 hour fast didn't work.  She's pooping okay but there hasn't been much fur in it the last few times.  And now it's lodged itself somewhere, all that fur that hasn't been coming out in the poop.  She puked up her pre-meal just now and the lunch came with it (lunch was 3 hours previously) Very foul.



:(


the IBD group recommend Vaseline for 'emergency hairball relief" but petroleum jelly (hairball gels) have always backfired with Mazy cat.


I'd never give that internally. I don't care what they say about its purification process and all that. It's made out of petroleum, and it has a nasty scent. I'll never be convinced that it can be harmless.



Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 24, 2016, 06:15:25 PM
GoodVibes grouphug GoodVibes grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 24, 2016, 10:03:25 PM
:(

I'd never give that internally. I don't care what they say about its purification process and all that. It's made out of petroleum, and it has a nasty scent. I'll never be convinced that it can be harmless.





I agree Dee, but it is what hairball remedies are made of.  I am positive that is what caused Tolly's cancer.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 24, 2016, 10:52:50 PM
I've been so careful all evening with little slivers of meat and drops of broth.  Just now I figured she was okay and gave her about a tablespoon of broth with about a teaspoon of meat.  She ate it all up, then brought it all up.  :'( :'( :'(

When her tummy settles I'm going to give her more broth..with mineral oil in it.  She has got to shift that load of fur.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on December 24, 2016, 10:55:44 PM
:(   
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 25, 2016, 08:13:47 AM
Okay looks like she got some furry poop out over night. It has hard and chalky (from the bone both I guess) and had quite a bit of fur, but I don't think that's all of it.

  I did give her the broth and mineral oil (.5 ml) at 11 pm.  I meant to give her a little more in her first meal of the day this morning but forgot and gave her her usual s.boulardii instead.  Of course since it's been so long since she ate anything solid and kept it down I am having to feed very tiny amounts at a time.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on December 25, 2016, 08:22:52 AM
 >:(

I just put a recipe in that section for vegetable broth. How about making her some veggie broth and gel it with regular gelatin for when she's sick? I know it's not normal to give cats veggies, but it might help keep her from having so much calcium which sounds like she's getting a bit too much of if her poop is white.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 25, 2016, 08:52:35 AM
Dee the chalkiness is from the bone broth. That's all she really ate and kept down yesterday.

 Veggie broth is not something I would ever give Mazy cat, even if I could find organic vegetables. And she can't have beef gelatin, even if it was organic. Cats don't really benefit from vegetables at all, anyway, but thank you for thinking of her.

She had another dose of mineral oil and I will feed her sparingly today. I know there is more fur for her to pass.  She might lose a couple ounces but her weight has been steady for the past few weeks so I won't worry about that, I'll get it back on her again.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 25, 2016, 09:53:28 PM
Sending purrs that the fur moves out without any more regurgitation episodes.   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed  GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 26, 2016, 12:16:28 AM
Thanks Pookie.  After about half a meal of Rad Cat this morning Mazy cat has been content to just have bone broth and Cornish hen meat (from the broth).  The meat has been hand fed every 2.5-3 hours and she laps up the broth.

Her last meal tonight was more of the same, eaten on her own, with another .5 ml of mineral oil.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 30, 2016, 09:51:54 AM
This flare lasted a long time, it seems like.  She had soft stool three poops in a row, two of them 12 hours apart, and I really couldn't see any fur in them at all.  The softness was probably from the three doses of mineral oil. She regurgitated again Wednesday night at supper, then had her third soft stool Thursday morning.

Last night she had a normal poop and it was chock full of fur so I guess she's finally passed the wad.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 30, 2016, 11:08:46 AM
Last night she had a normal poop and it was chock full of fur so I guess she's finally passed the wad.

Yay!   thumbsup1

Based on how this episode went, would you handle them the same way going forward, e.g. mineral oil doses, etc?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 30, 2016, 11:36:07 AM
No, I won't.  I only use the mineral oil as a last ditch effort to help her. This is only the second time I have resorted to it in the last 12 months.

1.5 g of skin added per meal, intending eventually to increase that to 2 g per meal (6% total extra fat, that is if skin is pure fat).

I have done tons of calculations, and no matter which way I do them, I come up with the same answer on how much skin to add to increase the fat content per meal by 6%. But I still am afraid to go by my calculations. I still don't know if skin is actually pure fat, or what else I am adding to the serving.

At only 2 grams per serving I guess it might not make that much difference, but once it's in the meat that's it, I can't take it out.

So I've decided to continue adding the skin per meal, so I have control over what she is getting. I simply take out the frozen skin, snip off the correct amount. Snip it into tiny pieces and add it to her meal.

I had hoped, with the addition of the fat, and the GLM, she might maintain her weight better, but it hasn't happened that way, at least not yet.  She lost a full ounce during this latest episode, now I am working to recover that ounce.

I don't really want her to gain any more, she seems to be a good weight at 9 lbs 5 1/2 ounces now, her healthy weight used to be 9 lbs 10 ounces, but with the arthritis I didn't mind keeping that 5 ounces off. But I don't want her to go any lower.

One more thing.  I've just gone back and re-read over the last week of entries here.  I am not happy with the results (or lack of) with the SEB/aloe mixture so I don't think I will be using that again. Many in the IBD group report good results and swear by it, but it's just not working for Mazy cat.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 01, 2017, 08:24:32 AM
Mazy cat has gained back her ounce. (weight AFTER pee and poop)

  Nice furry poop this morning.  So on we go!

bananamiddlechild bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 04, 2017, 07:15:23 PM
More fur passing problems, presenting slightly different from last week's issue.

Mazy cat used to take Vets-Best on a daily basis.  I adjusted the dose to her needs, but she took it every day.  After the formula change I stopped giving it to her. She did have some uncomfortable days as her body adjusted to the reduction in bulk forming fiber.  I continued with SEB and marshmallow root, both loose powder.

Up until now (about 6 months) she's been okay without any psyllium.  I did get some in though, just in case (Konsyl pure psyllium)

Just past winter solstice I noticed a marked change in the light, staying lighter until past 4:30 (now 5:00!)! At the same time I noticed a marked increase in shedding for all three girls. Jennie and Queen Eva get daily brushing (J) and combing (QE) but Mazy cat does not allow any of that.

  Mazy cat has been passing the usual amount of fur, not more, same as the trouble started last week. I expected a regurgitation but it hasn't come yet.

This evening she had clearly a crampy tummy, passed a single stool with almost no fur in it, a bit mucous-y.  She tried to join Game time but couldn't seem to focus, and did a bit of excess nether region washing, and after a while she asked me to go with her to the litter box again.  This time she spent a lot of time re-positioning before squatting. Since I knew she was uncomfortable I half expected diarrhea (rare for her) but I did turn my back so as not to inhibit her if she was having trouble.

She got done and buried (she won't bury if it's made her feel sick to poop so that was a good sign) and I grabbed my gear and picked it out.

It was just about all fur.  Hardly any poop to be seen.  And BONE DRY. When I saw that I thought, "I've got to get some water in her colon."

Here I come to the point! I made an executive decision to crack open the Konsyl psyllium.  I used only a scant 1/8 teaspoon, mixed it with a tiny amount of food ( 2/10 oz) and at least 2 tbsp of warm water. Heehee- She did a funny double take when it wasn't what she was expecting (chicken with EZc and bone broth) and then lapped it up.

She's gone to bed in the hammock now. (Her usual after supper Spot.)

I may or may not feed her any more tonight.  Maybe her final bedtime meal (about 3/10 oz) with the usual SEB, MR, ACV and probiotic in it, if she wants it.  But she's going to skip supper tonight and let that psyllium go to work.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on January 04, 2017, 07:45:51 PM
You know, that looks like owl poop. Weird.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on January 04, 2017, 08:33:08 PM
You know, that looks like owl poop. Weird.

MC, is that poo that you "investigated".... or is that how it looked when it was deposited? 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 05, 2017, 05:08:59 AM
You know, that looks like owl poop. Weird.

Yes. It's pretty much what a raw fed cat poop looks like, but her's was so dry and hard.

MC, is that poo that you "investigated".... or is that how it looked when it was deposited? 

That is a cross section (pulled apart)

Incidentally I already had it in my hands (inside the paper towel) when I thought to take a picture so I brought it upstairs in search of my camera, and set it on the kitchen floor (in the paper towel)

All three cats were very worked up about me bringing poop upstairs and putting it on the kitchen floor.  Mazy cat especially was so upset, even after I cleaned and sanitized everything she kept sniffing over the area, thankfully she eventually did forget about it.  She was REALLY upset that I brought her poo upstairs!

This morning's update:

The psyllium and moderate fasting seems to have helped. Overnight she passed two more stools like the one pictured above. Just pure fur. This morning she had a normal poop, with some poop in it and some fur. She also had her first meal, but wasn't overly enthused eating it.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on January 05, 2017, 07:38:00 AM
Remind me again  :-[ why you give her Konsyl pure psyllium... and why you stopped? 


Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on January 05, 2017, 07:38:49 AM
I truly mean this in the kindest way...  the cats being upset about poo in the kitchen had me chuckling a bit. 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 05, 2017, 01:11:49 PM
Remind me again  :-[ why you give her Konsyl pure psyllium... and why you stopped? 


I never gave it to her before.  I gave her vet's-best, which contains psyllium. I stopped the V-B when they changed the formula last summer, and went back to giving her just slippery elm bark and marshmallow root, but no psyllium.  I decided to wait and see if she needed the bulk forming fiber before starting her on it.

I am giving it to her now because when the fur starts to build up periodically, as it always does, her stools are coming out bone dry and hard.  Last week I gave her the mineral oil but I would really rather not continue with that.  Psyllium is a bulk forming laxative, it draws water to the colon.  She needs that, at least periodically.  Her episodes are starting to last 2 days now, instead of her just puking, and then being done with it until the next time.

She did not want any breakfast after puking this morning and I wasn't sure she was even going to eat lunch either.  I just gave her a little canned with more psyllium, SEB and MR in it, and lots of water. There was another stool in the box, but I am not sure if it is her, I don't see much fur just very hard and dry stuff.  So it probably is hers.  Jennie & Queen Eva are due to poop today, but their poops never look like that.




I truly mean this in the kindest way...  the cats being upset about poo in the kitchen had me chuckling a bit. 

It was funny, especially the way they swarmed around.  Queen Eva rushed over, poked her nose in, took a big sniff and then wrinkled her nose and jerked back..it was freaking hilarious actually, she was so shocked! I think they thought I was starting a treat session.

but I worried about Mazy cat because she was really upset about it. Mazy cat is the original Litter Box Police, and takes it very seriously.  Poop in the kitchen is just Not On.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 05, 2017, 04:41:30 PM
Mazy cat is still feeling poorly. She ate a very tiny amount at lunch, which she did get up for. I gave her another 1/8 tsp of psyllium, 1/8 tsp of SEB and a pinch of MR. She ate most of it (about 0.2 oz)

Just now (home from work) she ate another 0.2 oz but would not get out of bed to eat so I fed her where she is (in the hammock). I will continue this every half hour or so until I go to bed.  I am using the By Nature organic canned.

I think her episodes are starting to last longer. used to be she'd puke, feel better and be ready to eat again within a few hours. Last episode (12/23/16) after a 9 day span with no regurgitation it took her 2 full days for her to feel better and she lost an ounce. I managed to get that ounce back on her within a week. This episode (6 day span) - now it's been almost 24 hours again and she is still not herself.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 05, 2017, 04:47:26 PM
 :(

GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 05, 2017, 06:38:55 PM
Thanks Pookie!  I got busy and Mazy cat went 1 hour and ten minutes between servings.  This time though I made her get up out of the hammock. 

First..I noticed she was hanging her head out when I started Games with Queen Eva.  Watching, but not wanting to participate.  After a few minutes she pulled her head back in. She would greet me and purr anytime I went to her and pet her, but not coming out.

But when it was time for cat suppers, I made her get up. She got up, walked around a little stretching, you know how they do, then looked a little...almost confused.  I asked her if she had to pee (I was sure she did) and then just picked her up and carried her as far as the landing.  I put her down and she ran down the rest of the stairs, jumped up to the litter boxes (using her step-stool) and peed.

When she came back upstairs I thought she might get interested in play, but she changed her mind.

I made her stay up long enough to eat and this time I gave her the GLM in her 0.25 oz meal.

After she ate she went right back to bed, but I feel encouraged that she's been up anyway.  I'm about to give her another 0.25 oz, it's been 50 minutes since the GLM meal.

I hoped to get 2 ounces into her today, but..I don't think I'm going to get quite to that.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 06, 2017, 06:13:45 AM
Still feeling sorry for herself this morning.  Got up when I got up and ate her first meal, but then went to bed and wouldn't come out for her 2nd serving.  Coaxed her out of bed for her 3rd (now 2nd) meal and hopefully will give her one more serving before I leave for work.

Her last meal last night I did give her the usual SEB, MR, ACV, and probiotic.

No more poop, I sure hope she got all the fur out.

Sometimes the worry seems more than I can continue to bear.

<edit> yep more furry poop. She ate her next meal too, so at least she's only down about half an ounce, today.  yesterday she only had 1.5 oz of food total though. :(
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on January 06, 2017, 09:31:33 AM
Thanks for the explanation about the psyllium.  :)
I'm sorry Mazy is not up to par. 
Since barfing and the lack of pooping often go together... maybe things will turn around SOON!   Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 06, 2017, 01:15:34 PM
Mazy cat was up and greeting me when I came home for lunch and ate her lunch right up.  So far kept it down.

Since I've been dealing with this for years you'd think I'd be used to it.  It's just...the episodes, or flare ups are lasting longer now.  Not more frequent than ever, but lasting closer to 48 hours than just a day.

Overtime wil be starting next week.  How I dread it.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 06, 2017, 04:20:39 PM
Mazy cat was up and greeting me when I came home for lunch and ate her lunch right up.  So far kept it down.

Since I've been dealing with this for years you'd think I'd be used to it.  It's just...the episodes, or flare ups are lasting longer now.  Not more frequent than ever, but lasting closer to 48 hours than just a day.

Overtime wil be starting next week.  How I dread it.

Up and greeting me when I got home from work too.  But then she had more poop, and it was very sticky.  Stuck to her, she had to scoot to get it off.  Full of fur again, but the shell was sticky.  From the psyllium?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 06, 2017, 08:16:39 PM
Up and greeting me when I got home from work too.  But then she had more poop, and it was very sticky.  Stuck to her, she had to scoot to get it off.  Full of fur again, but the shell was sticky.  From the psyllium?

I'm glad she was greeting you, at least that's an improvement.  As for the stickiness . . . I don't know if it's the psyllium, but if you suspect it, maybe add a little more water with it?

When is she going to the vet?  Was it this month or am I thinking of something else?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 06, 2017, 09:06:53 PM
Mazy cat is pretty much back to normal I think. She is due this month for her 6 month check up but I've been putting off making the appointment. Partly because of my disappointment with my vet, and partly because January is not really a good month for me to take a planned day off.  So I'm putting it off until February, while I continue to struggle with the thought of trying to find a better vet.

I miss having a vet I have regular contact with.  That of course is part of the problem, with no voice mail or private e mail there just isn't any way for me to communicate with her the way I need to, the way I used to be able to.

I was careful to use plenty of water when she had the psyllium, but maybe you're right.  I don't know if I am going to continue with it on a regular basis or not.  I'd really rather not, but we'll see how it goes.  With overtime looming she isn't going to be getting her 8 hour fasts some nights, and last year that was a nightmare.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 06, 2017, 09:19:38 PM
grouphug GoodVibes  fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 07, 2017, 07:00:12 PM
All better. Normal poop tonight, normal appetite, all staying down.  Whew.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 07, 2017, 07:31:17 PM
 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1  multistars
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 08, 2017, 10:28:55 AM
More poop this morning, but hard little balls, I don't like to see that. Balls are difficult to pass.  I am stil struggling with the psyllium issue.

Knowing what happened last year when overtime set in, should I start the psyllium as a regular addition in order to try to prevent it?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on January 08, 2017, 10:38:13 AM

Knowing what happened last year when overtime set in, should I start the psyllium as a regular addition in order to try to prevent it?

I would.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 08, 2017, 10:46:34 AM
Knowing what happened last year when overtime set in, should I start the psyllium as a regular addition in order to try to prevent it?

Might be worth a try.  If you don't like the results, you can stop giving it.

Crossing paws . . .  fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 09, 2017, 05:36:30 AM
okay thanks you guys.  But now I need to figure out my timing.

The issue is, when I work over time, she doesn't get her 8 hour fast.  So..do I give the psyllium on those nights?  Or, since it does slow digestion, do I give the psyllium on the nights she does get her 8 hour fast, and skip the shorter-fast night?

(she had another sticky poop, I found it on the mat when I got up this morning. All fur again. But she hasn't had any psyllium since the flare-up)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 12, 2017, 06:33:29 PM
I'm not happy with the results I am seeing from the Konsyl psyllium.  Less than 1/8 tsp two nights in a row (final meal) with plenty of water in the serving. about 12 hours after the second dose...round hard stools.  Round stools are terrible for cats to get out.  They...spin instead of being pushed out.

about 7 hours after that, a big poop, but sloppy, on the inside of the poop, not the outside of it.

At such a tiny dose! (and this is similar to the experience last week)

Did not stop her flare up either, but I didn't expect it would.  I was just hoping for keeping the span longer than a week. 6 days between flares this time.  This one, again, lasted longer than usual.  She regurgitated breakfast yesterday, and then again in the evening.

 Nothing but bone broth after that until this morning  She ate but not much.  A slippery elm bark meal.  Ate lunch but seemed urpy, finally seems back to herself tonight,.  so about 36 hours.

Just wanting to keep it all in one place in case I need to refer back.  I forgot to weigh them Sunday, so it will be two weeks by the time I weigh them this Sunday.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 12, 2017, 10:46:40 PM
GoodVibes

Sending purrs . . .
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 16, 2017, 10:46:33 AM
The next step in this ever changing process is to start giving the egg yolk daily (in smaller amounts) instead of twice a week.  Up until now I havne't had a way to do that, as I wanted to continue with raw yolk.  But I've read some reports of cats doing better with a small amount of yolk daily rahter than just once or twice a week.

Now, Mazy cat already gets yolk in her Rad Cat every day, but obviously it is not enough, she needs more to help with her motility issues.

There are instructions on how to dry the egg yolk after cooking it but it is labor/time intensive, you only get a small amount (a few days worth at a time) for all that work and I am just not ready to try that.  The benefits of drying it of course is that you have to add only a much smaller amount to the meal each day.

Mazy cat has already rejected to meal that had her 1/4 cooked (hard boiled) egg yolk in it.

I will try it in other meals before I resort to all the work of drying.

I did investigate because my other reluctance to cooking the egg was the reduction in nutrients from the cooking process.  But looking at some charts I saw that there really isn't that much of a difference in the nutrients, and I've been assured that the choline (active nutrient for motility improvement) is not affected at all by cooking, thankfully.

She will continue to get her egg yolk lecithin, one capsule twice a day.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 18, 2017, 05:22:40 AM
Mazy cat accepted the cooked egg yolk in her bedtime EZc meal so that takes care of that issue.

(along with her SEB, MR, probiotic and ACV)

bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 18, 2017, 09:41:19 AM
Great news!   thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on January 20, 2017, 08:37:11 AM
 thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 22, 2017, 09:51:52 AM
I'm still giving her raw yolk on Sundays. Regurgitation episodes steady at 6 or 7 days between, currently.

Still adding the skin to her EZc meats.  If my calculations are correct based on 1 ounce of chicken skin providing 11 grams of fat, I'm only adding 1 gram of fat per meal.

But I don't know how to turn that into a percentage to know how much fat I have added percentage wise.

For example:  Rad Cat chicken is 27% fat per serving (not dry matter basis)

I have a 1.2 ounce portion of chicken breast or chicken thigh that are both listed as 3 grams of fat per 4 ounce serving.

I have added another gram of fat.

How on earth do I figure out the percentage of fat (not DMB) in that meal?

She hasn't gained any weight since adding the extra skin. I was just hoping it would help keep her weight up, so she doesn't lose during episodes. She did lose an ounce during that period when her regurgitation flare ups were causing her to not eat for two days instead of only one day of reduced meals.

Now she is back to the episode only lasting 24 hours, she did gain back half that ounce.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 22, 2017, 10:06:56 AM
I just remembered I had found an online calculator for percentages.  It looks like I am adding 2.9 % fat to the meal. 

The human size serving (4 oz at 3 gr of fat) is, according to the calculator 2.65%.  So, if I am doing it right, the meal is now about 5.5 % fat.  Still a very low fat meal.

It's only 1/3 of her daily intake though, Rad Cat is 2/3.  Plus the daily egg yolk now.

But breaking this all down helps me realize why she doesn't gain weight.  The meats Queen Eva and Jennie eat are much higher in fat content.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on January 22, 2017, 10:07:45 AM

But I don't know how to turn that into a percentage to know how much fat I have added percentage wise.

I have a 1.2 ounce portion of chicken breast or chicken thigh that are both listed as 3 grams of fat per 4 ounce serving.

I have added another gram of fat.

How on earth do I figure out the percentage of fat (not DMB) in that meal?

All I've got that's anywhere near some kind of formula that you can use is:

https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/1130?fgcd=&manu=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=50&offset=&sort=default&order=asc&qlookup=chicken+skin&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing= (https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/1130?fgcd=&manu=&lfacet=&format=&count=&max=50&offset=&sort=default&order=asc&qlookup=chicken+skin&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 29, 2017, 07:25:15 PM
Mazy cat gained 1 1/2 ounces!  This, in spite of regurgitating twice this week (4 days apart). It can't be helped, she doesn't get the whole 8 hour fast when I work late. She did get a 10 hour and a 9 hour this weekend, which helps. But she really needs at least 8 hours, every single day.

I think the added fat, even though it isn't really very much, is what has helped her gain those last lost ounces. I don't really see any other difference, since adding it.

She is at what I would call her perfect weight now.  A little lighter than she used to be, but it's better for her arthritis to be lighter.  9 pounds 6 ounces.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 29, 2017, 10:00:16 PM
That's wonderful!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

multistars multistars multistars
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 04, 2017, 09:48:27 AM
Well phooey.  Yesterday I was feeling so happy that Mazy cat was on day 10 of non regurgitation.  In the morning (yesterday) she didn't want her second breakfast, so I didn't push.  I figured missing 1.2 ounces of food was better than puking it back up anyway.  She was normal the remainder of the day.

Then last night as we were playing I found some puke under the TV table.  By the size of it it's easy to know it was a lunch meal. Her lunch is only 0.25 oz. By the dryness of it, I guessed it was 2-3 days old.  So it looks like she is still on the 6 or 7 day cycle.

She didn't puke yesterday but she never did eat her bedtime meal either, so she was short by 1.5 ounces yesterday.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 04, 2017, 06:08:13 PM
Just to keep everything in one place:  I had to describe my feeding methods for Mazy cat to someone in the IBD group so I've copied it over to here just to keep things thorough.

Mazy cat is fed 11 servings a day. That is down from 17, and then 12. The 11 servings breaks down to 5 meals a day. (the other two get 4 meals a day)

The pre-meal breakfast, breakfast, lunch and pre-meal supper are Rad Cat chicken and Rad Cat turkey

5:30 am and 6 am she gets 0. 8 oz broken into two servings, .35 oz (the breaking fast pre-meal, with s.boulardii and a little pancreas) and half hour later .45 oz. (with a capsule of egg yolk lecithin)

7:15 am and 7:40 am she gets two more servings-.45 oz (with cosequin and marshmallow root) and .5 oz.( plain)

I come home for lunch around 1:45 and she gets .25 oz. (Plain)

When I get home from work, from 4:30-5: pm she gets her pre-meal supper,0.4 oz split in two meals, 1st serving is with s.boulardii and pancreas, 2nd serving is with egg yolk lecithin.

6:30 I start supper. Mazy cat's supper consists of (approx) 1.2 ounces of either chicken breast or chicken thigh (Mazy cat's meat is run through the food processor, she does not eat chunks) ,0.4 grams of chicken skin, 1/2 tablespoon of bone broth and EZcomplete in the appropriate amount.

(The bone broth has a few shreds of the meat from the Cornish hen frozen with it, and that is fed as a treat, to all three. Mazy cat gets most of it but the other two get a sliver, it's a special bonding evening ritual we all love.)

.How that meal is divided:

First I separate 0.5 oz of meat and skin and put it back in the fridge for later. The rest of the meat and skin is mixed with all the EZc, the bone broth and a little more water.

First supper serving is about 0.55 oz.

An hour later, 2nd supper serving is 0.5 oz with green lipped mussel and a couple drops of ACV.

An hour later 3rd supper serving is the 0.5 plain

An hour (sometimes less than an hour) later her final meal is the last of the EZc mixture. It's usually about 0.3 oz. To this bed time meal I add her slippery elm bark, marshmallow root, 0.14 oz boiled egg yolk, probiotic, and a few drops of ACV (and a little water)

This last meal MUST be given by 9:30. It is imperative that Mazy cat get at least an 8 hour fast every night to help her motility, the 8 hours is required to stimulate the pyloric emptying. On weekends I aim for at least one 10 hour fast over night.

This is the current regimen, it has evolved over many years. Her regurgitation episodes have plateaued to every 7 - 10 days,. sometimes more often, especially when I work overtime and cannot give her the 8 hour fast every night.

PS Mazy cat gets a modified prey model meal of Cornish hen and liver and pancreas (with egg \shell calcium) on Sundays instead of the EZc meal. Still broken up the same way.

Her bone broth is made from the Cornish hens too. She loves Cornish hen above all other meat but her hens are $19.50 each plus shipping, so I have to use them sparingly

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 07, 2017, 06:49:42 PM
Rough flare today. Had her pre-meal, servings (0.8 opz total Rad Cat split half hour apart) and brought it all back up.

Instead of feeding her again, after an hour I gave her just a tiny amount of food with slipper elm bark.

When I came home for lunch she had an appetite, so I fed her a small meal, 0.3 oz, with more SEB.  After she ate she started to hyuck and run down the stairs but by the time she got to the bottom she stopped and nothing came up.  I picked her up and ;put her in the litter boxes and she had a small poop, foul.

When I came home from work 2 hours later she was just hopping out of the litter box and had done a huge very smelly poop. It was a bit mucusy, though firm, and I didn't see much fur, so she's not passed it all even with that.

 She seemed to feel better after that and ate her pre-meal okay and had lots of energy to run around, but then went to bed in the hammock and wouldn't come out for supper.

So after a while I gave her just some chicken breast mixed with bone broth. The chicken breast that was meant to be her supper I mean.  I didn't use the EZc, just the meat, plain and raw, with the bone broth mixed in it.  She kept that down and has had another meal of the breast with bone broth, and will have one more serving of that at bed time.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 08, 2017, 05:39:16 PM
Another big smelly poo this morning, and that one was full of fur. No wonder she pukes, having all that in her half the time.  She isn't constipated, she has normal raw fed poops every 36 hours. 

But then the fur starts building up again and she goes through this cycle.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 09, 2017, 05:46:09 AM
Another big furry poop this morning, then she puked up her first meal, also full of fur.  Welcome shedding season. :(
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on February 09, 2017, 10:28:56 PM
 :(
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 10, 2017, 05:15:56 PM
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes grouphug CatPurr
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 17, 2017, 08:50:19 AM
Mazy cat had her check up this morning.  Thank goodness that's over for another 6 months.  I opted for the regual blood wrk, I need to know what's going on inside her. Vet is amenable to the IGA test, but said the blood can only be sent on certain days, and Friday is not one of those days.  She is going to find the correct days, and let me know. 

Mazy cat did okay.  Everything drenched in feliway, and she had Rescue Remedy.  I appealed to St. Gertrude (patron saint of cats) and reminded Mazy cat she could call on Marci (her Reiki sender) for support.  I actually think the Reiki reminder helped her a ton.

Aside for a lot of growling she got through the examination with vet examining, tech holding and me standing in front of her talking to her.  Then they took her away for the blood and expressing of anal glands. I heard no screaming and they were back in 7 minutes though it seemed an aeon.

Her glands were full but it was liquid not thick gunk. But very full.

Vet asked about her diet and I confirmed she was still raw fed.  No censure.  She involuntarily commented on the softness of Mazy cat's coat and I bit my tongue to hold back my smug "It's the raw diet".

She heartily approved the green lipped mussel, said she learned a lot about it at her latest conference. I had brought the jar to show the brand I was using.

Home again I waited a little while before feeding, even though Jennie was quite outraged at having to wait so long. (Queen Eva doesn't care)

I only gave her a tiny bit to start and she didn't quite finish even that.  I'll let her tummy settle before giving her any more.  It will take all day to get everything in her, but I am used to that.  At least she had a 12 hour fast in between, that will help her motility.

She's washing her bottom a lot which is to be expected, but she is happy to be home and is very relaxed!  What makes me think so?  Well have a look....
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on February 17, 2017, 08:04:46 PM
The second picture is ADORABLE!!!! 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 18, 2017, 08:58:50 PM
Rough day today, breakfast came up, lunch came up with foul liquid, on bone broth for the rest of the day.

Bowels empty, bladder empty.

The second picture is ADORABLE!!!! 

 HeadButt  She was having a good time unwinding after the vet visit.  So happy to be home, and probably rolling off the vet and feliway smells and getting home smells back on her as she batted at her Lemon. xx
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 25, 2017, 08:39:16 AM
Adding the skin (fat) has made the difference as far as maintaining her weight.  In spite of her current regurgitation cycle which is every 4 days ('normal' for February), she is maintaining her weight, and, in fact even gained another ounce.

She's at 9 lbs 8 ounces now, and I don't want her to go any higher than that. I am only adding 4 grams of skin a day.  If she gains any more I may have to cut it back to 3 again.

Sometimes on a regurgitation day she clearly feels unwell and on those days I turn to just bone broth for the remainder of the day.  Other times she pukes it up, and within a half hour is ready to resume her normal diet.

Of course I never know which kind of day it's gong to be.  Just recording here so I have a record I can look back on.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 28, 2017, 04:21:18 PM
Awful night last night.  Somehow Mazy cat developed some of those round, or almost round, hard stools, and she couldn't pass them.  Well she did, but not without repeated trips to the litter box, terrible straining, screaming and growling.

I was beside myself with worry.  After she passed the third, and largest round piece she did seem to feel better.  In between the second and third, she passed another stool with a lot of fur in it.

I did give her some mineral oil, after that last big hard one.

Amway after the fourth, and biggest
piece (which did not contain fur) she was able to eat, and I was up half the night, feeding her.  Finally got to bed at midnight. (I get up at 5 a.m.)

She also spent a lot of time playing with both me and Queen Eva.

This morning she ate her first two breakfast meals without trouble but did not want her second two meals.  When I cam home for lunch she had had more poop, normal poop not those round hard things, all fur. I also knew she did not have trouble passing it, because it was tidily buried.  She wouldn't have buried if it had hurt her or even caused cramping.

She seems completely back to normal now.  Awful night. Just awful.

I don't know what to do for her to prevent those hard round things.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 28, 2017, 05:18:47 PM
Might as well make things worse right?  Kept her premeal down no problems. An hour later I did the cornish hen slivers.  She ate them like she was ravenous, I wasn't paying attention she took the entire glob from my hand and swallowed it, then promptly brought it back up, including the meal she ate an hour ago.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 16, 2017, 07:19:50 PM
Just to keep this thread updated, because I refer to it alot.  Mazy cat had blood work in February which came back with a very slightly elated ALT (liver) of 123, and the elevated eosinophils, which has been on going.  Vet freaking out about raw diets and parasites.

Plan going forward:

1) antibiotics (Baytril), in case there is infection

2) denosyl liver support

3) fecal culture when I can time it to get a fresh sample up top the vet before 3 pm (when the lab picks up)

4)re-do bloods after one month on the denosyl

4) x ray, if ALT is still high

Mazy cat is one week into the antibiotics, and it is bothering her tummy just a little.  She is okay in the morning and lunch but after the Baytril (at supper) she doesn't want her raw food, so I have gone back to canned for her evening meals, until the Baytril is done.

This will be the last time I will be able to fall back on the By Nature organics chicken & liver.  There are about 12 cans left, but the expire date is in May.  I still have nothing to replace them.

The only change in Mazy cat's diet and supplement regimen since her last blood work in July is the addition of the GLM.  Vet expressed the worry that the New Zealand sourced GLM is tainted with heavy metals.  She recommended a for-pets (dogs, actually) brand called Glyco-flex, a "treat" filled with a lot of nasty junk in addition to the GLM.  I declined, and have kept Mazy cat on the GLM.

While researching the heavy metal issue I did find a reference to a "rare liver toxicity" in humans taking GLM.  Really only one case, that kept coming up in searches, of a 70 year old woman with other health issues.

if anyone else can find any references to heavy metals risk in GLM, or liver toxicity in GLM, I would like to know about it.  I am not very good at searching.

Mazy cat's regurgitation cycle remains unchanged.  Every 4 days, sometimes as long as 6 days or even 9 days.  When she has a longer span (anything over 7 days) she tends to regurgitate two days in a row.  Not always the same meal.

The addition of 1/4 egg yolk daily (boiled instead of raw), instead of  3/4 yolk raw twice a week is going well and may be helping her.  Adding skin (for fat,) has definitely helped her keep her weight on.  I don't worry about making up the regurgitated meals as much, because of the extra calories from the added fat.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on March 16, 2017, 10:05:35 PM
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/221902045_An_Evidence-Based_Systematic_Review_of_Green-Lipped_Mussel_Perna_canaliculus_by_the_Natural_Standard_Research_Collaboration

Quote
Expert Opinion and Historic/Folkloric Precedent

As a food or as a dietary supplement, green-lipped mussel is not regulated by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA). It is not listed inthe FDA GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe) list as a food additive.

Ulbricht et al. 59Brief Safety Summary

Likely safe: When eaten in moderation, due to its long history of use inthe Maori diet (Halpern & Georges, 2000).

Possibly safe: When handling green-lipped mussels, although therehave been occupational case reports of lung dysfunction and multiplerespiratory symptoms in New Zealand mussel openers (Glass et al.,1998).

Possibly unsafe: When used in immunosuppressed patients, or in pa-tients not vaccinated against the polio virus (Greening, Dawson, &Lewis, 2001). When used in patients with pulmonary disorders such asasthma (Emelyanov et al., 2002; Glass et al., 1998; Halpern, 2000b).

Likely unsafe: When used in patients with hepatitis or other hepatic dis-orders (MacKenzie et al., 2002; Miles et al., 2004; Suzuki, MacKenzie,Stirling, & Adamson, 2001); possible toxic hepatitis has been associatedwith Seatone in several case reports (Ahern, Milazzo, & Dymock, 1980;Croft, 1980; Fabrin, 1988). When used in patients with neurotoxicity(Ishida et al., 2004; Morohashi et al., 1999). When used in allergic pa-tients (Glass et al., 1998). When used in patients who are pregnant orbreastfeeding (Miller & Wu, 1984; Shiels & Whitehouse, 2000).

Note: Green-lipped mussel appears to be generally well tolerated innonallergic people (Cho et al., 2003; Halpern & Georges, 2000), andsecondary sources suggest that heavy metal contamination is usuallynot a concern (unlike oysters). However, the B4 analog of brevetoxinB (BTXB4), has been associated with neurotoxic shellfish poisoning(Ishida et al., 2004; Morohashi et al., 1999). Complete toxin profilesof green-lipped mussel may also include yessotoxins (YTXs), pecteno-toxins (PTXs), and low levels of okadaic acid (OA) (MacKenzie et al.,2002; Miles et al., 2004; Suzuki et al., 2001). Possible toxic hepatitishas been associated with Seatone in several case reports (Ahern et al.,1980; Croft, 1980; Fabrin, 1988)

Precautions/Warnings/Contraindications

Use cautiously in patients taking anti-inflammatory medications. It has been suggested that green-lipped mussel may enhance not only thebenefits of other anti-inflammatory drugs, but also their adverse effects(particularly gastrointestinal upset).

Use cautiously in patients with asthma; although green-lipped mus-sel has been suggested to have anti-asthmatic effects (Emelyanov et al.,2002; Halpern, 2000b), lung dysfunction and multiple respiratory symptoms have been reported in New Zealand mussel openers (Glass et al.,1998).

Avoid in patients with liver disease, due to potential toxic hepatitisassociated with green-lipped mussel (Ahern et al., 1980; Brooks, 1980;Croft, 1980; Fabrin, 1988).

Avoid in patients with known allergy/hypersensitivity to green-lippedmussel or other shellfish (mollusks, crustaceans). Powdered green-lipped mussel is reported to be more allergenic than lipid extracts; allergic reactions to gelatin (used in capsule preparations) have also been noted.

There is a LOT more information at that page, but those are the highlights I saw that might concern what you're asking. You probably need to go read the whole page.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on March 16, 2017, 10:20:13 PM
http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-830-new%20zealand%20green-lipped%20mussel.aspx

Note--In this link at WebMD in the Side Effects tab, it says,

Quote
Special Precautions & Warnings:

Pregnancy and breast-feeding: New Zealand green-lipped mussel is POSSIBLY UNSAFE to take by mouth during pregnancy. There is some evidence that it might slow the development of the unborn child and might also delay birth.

There is not enough reliable information about the safety of taking New Zealand green-lipped mussel if you are breast-feeding. Stay on the safe side and avoid use.

If that is true, then that tells me that it might indicate a lowering of cell generation and regeneration. THIS might be a reason that it causes liver issues. The liver wouldn't be regenerating at a proper rate.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 17, 2017, 04:47:26 AM
Thanks Dee.  So for Mazy cat I have to make the decision, is the benefit worth the risk?  My answer right now is yes.  Just looking at her running, jumping, playing, sitting as opposed to barely moving, and hobbling along slowly when she does move.  yes, it is worth the risk.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 17, 2017, 04:24:59 PM
Success! bananamiddlechild  Mazy cat had a nice poop at lunch time.  Fortunately they'd already been fed.  I bagged it up and fled out the door to the vet.  As it was I was 10 minutes late getting back to work.  But part of that was because of the parking issues.

So her poop is on it's way to the lab for the fecal culture.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 17, 2017, 04:38:16 PM
 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 DrLisaPiersonWorthy
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 17, 2017, 04:44:11 PM
Just discovered I left the milk out.  I had just poured it in my cereal when she said she had to go.  I followed her down, grabbed it in a baggy when she was finished (baggies already down there waiting for the event) brought it up to label it, and forgot to put the milk away.  I did remember to dump the cereal, otherwise Jennie would have been into it.  Hate wasting food but this was an emergency.

I tasted the milk, it seems fine, I put it back in the fridge.  It was out for about 3 hours.

Can hardly wait to hear about all these parasites Mazy cat has. IF she has something it wasn't from raw meat. I more likely would be something I tracked in.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on March 17, 2017, 09:18:10 PM
How long will it take before you get the results?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 17, 2017, 09:52:12 PM
How long will it take before you get the results?

Results are in. The milk is fine. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

No seriously, I don't know. At least I week I think.

Mazy cat is still eating about half an ounce less than she really needs to maintain her weight, but it's the best I can do while she's on the antibiotic.

I sure wish I could find another food like By Nature Organic.  It appears I am always going to have need of a canned food to fall back on at certain times.  This is the first time since last summer, when her mouth issue happened.

She's used to this food so I don't even have to worry about transition times you know?  But this wil be the end of it.

That poop I brought in was her second poop of the day, it was her big hair poop, that comes along every 4 days or so.  So I don't know if they will actually have enough poop to find anything it's probably all fur inside.  I didn't take the time to break it open and check.  She had her normal poop early this morning.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 17, 2017, 10:25:19 PM
Results are in. The milk is fine. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 groangif

Can hardly wait to hear about all these parasites Mazy cat has. IF she has something it wasn't from raw meat. I more likely would be something I tracked in.

I know you're being facetious but I just have to say (to your twit vet):  I highly doubt she has any parasites.  The vet is being a twirp.  Just my  2cents.   :D
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 19, 2017, 03:18:21 PM
Mazy cat has gained an ounce and a half since going back to canned  funny2

I didn't really want her gaining any weight, I guess I have forgotten to total up each day's intake lately, I thought she was eating less, not more.

I don't think the send out fecal will find anything either.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 24, 2017, 01:39:37 PM
Send out fecal is negative.  ;D

She's done with the baytril and will be going back on raw now.  (she started refusing raw by the third day on the antibiotics.)

I won't be starting the denosyl until the baytril is out of her system, and she is completely back on raw.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 29, 2017, 04:14:26 PM
Mazy cat has been back to 100% raw for three days, hurray!  I haven't started the deonsyl yet.  I don't know why my vet prefers that over milk thistle (or even Denamarin, which has both the Sam-e and the silymarin, since we know she likes mainstream supplements)

I did ask her abut it and she said she didn't think the Denamarin was needed because the bilirubin was stil normal, but I could use that instead of the Denosyl if I preferred.  Not knowing how to choose I just took the box of Denosyl.

Can anyone recommend a good milk thistle source?  What I really want to know is, if I use milk thistle instead of Denosyl or Denamarin, do I still have to worry about no food for an hour after giving it?  THAT is the main problem here.

Giving it on an empty stomach is not a problem.  Waiting an hour before feeding is. I already get up at 5 a.m. I really can't, can not, do any earlier than that.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on March 29, 2017, 09:09:30 PM
Quote
Results are in. The milk is fine. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Smarty pants! 

Happy to hear Mazy is back on course.  :) 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 29, 2017, 11:04:21 PM
Quote
Can anyone recommend a good milk thistle source?  What I really want to know is, if I use milk thistle instead of Denosyl or Denamarin, do I still have to worry about no food for an hour after giving it?  THAT is the main problem here.

See below.  As for when to feed it, I just did a SUPER quick search and it seems like it can be taken with or without, though some suggest taking 15 - 30 minutes before meals for better efficacy.  However, some also suggested that if you have a sensitive tummy, it might be best to take with food or after a meal.  Mind you, this was for humans.  I didn't search for usage in pets.

If you have time to also search on your own, this is helpful information on what to look for (from http://www.littlebigcat.com/health/milk-thistle-a-wonder-herb/):

Quote
Dosage and administration

The standard dosage of milk thistle seed extract is based on a silymarin content of around 80 percent; most supplements contain anywhere from 50-500 milligrams (175 mg is typical). Silymarin is found mostly in milk thistle seeds, but in low amounts. Therefore a milk thistle seed extract will contain the richest source of this active component, as well as other natural compounds found in the seeds.

Because of its excellent safety record and lack of adverse drug interactions, when I’m treating a very sick animal with advanced liver disease, I do not hesitate to use the full human dose–up to 200 mg per 10 pounds of body weight–of milk thistle extract daily. For most purposes, however, one-third to one-half of that dose is more than adequate. 

Quote
Human research studies have shown that it is more effective to administer this herb in three or four small portions over the day than in one large daily dose. When it is not possible to split the daily dose and administer the fractional portions three or four times a day, give it at least twice a day.

The capsule form is easy to find – any health food store, and even most pharmacies and  grocers, will have them in stock. The herb also comes in a liquid extract, but most human products contain a fair bit of alcohol. If you prefer a liquid preparation, get one specifically intended for use in animals.

NOTE:  Consumer Lab® released a report in December 2009 regarding test results from 10 commercial milk thistle preparations. Only Jarrow Formulas® Milk Thistle contained the industry standard 70% silymarin; all the rest fell short. They suggest using a product containing milk thistle “seed extract” as opposed to “seed powder” or “whole herb” to get the most silymarin.

One thing to note:

Quote
While it’s not exactly the fountain of youth, milk thistle clearly has wide-ranging positive effects throughout the body. However, before you add this potent herb to your pet’s daily regimen “just in case” it might do some good, it’s important to consider that some herbalists believe milk thistle is best reserved as a treatment for existing disease, rather than being used by itself in a healthy animal.

While moderate use of milk thistle is very safe, there is some experimental evidence to suggest that long-term ingestion of very high dosages of milk thistle will eventually suppress liver function.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 30, 2017, 05:53:05 PM
Send out fecal is negative.  ;D



Nobody commented so I wondered if you'd all missed this
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on March 30, 2017, 06:46:43 PM
Nobody commented so I wondered if you'd all missed this


I saw it.  I guess I just assUmed... so didn't think much about the results. 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on March 30, 2017, 06:53:14 PM
You should make the vet reimburse you for that test.  lol
What did you say when she told you the results?
I'm going on the impression the vet was assuming raw = parasites. 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 30, 2017, 07:18:59 PM
Sorry, I thought I'd already talked about the constant battle I have with her paranoia over raw and parasites. She sent me an e mail last Friday with the results.  I wrote back "thanks for the good news".  The vets there don't have private e mail and they no longer have voice mail.  There is no way to have a private communication with her, ever, except during appointments. I don't, cannot, take personal phone calls at work, and she is gone for the day by the time I get home from work. I just don't have the capacity to mix personal life during work. It's just the way I'm made.  ;D
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on March 30, 2017, 08:38:51 PM
Quote
Sorry, I thought I'd already talked about the constant battle I have with her paranoia over raw and parasites.

That is what I was referring to.... your vet being an azz about raw.  That is why I didn't think anything about Mazy's fecal test coming back parasite free... and didn't originally reply to that part of your post.   

Sorry, if I didn't make any sense in my other posts.   HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 30, 2017, 08:53:59 PM
Nobody commented so I wondered if you'd all missed this

I caught it, but held back from posting "insert evil/smug grin here."  Because I figured Mazy didn't have parasites but your vet will never admit that raw isn't the terrible poison she thinks it is.   >:D
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 30, 2017, 04:55:39 PM
Mazy cat has gained 4 ounces since starting the Denosyl. Any thoughts?

I thought it might be because there was a reduction in regurgitation episodes for a couple weeks when I first increased her probiotic. But she's back to 'normal' cycles, and still gaining. Just like always, any change seems to bring about an improvement, but she always goes right back to the status quo after a few weeks.

She is absolutely bursting with health.  She already was, of course, the only thing different is the weight gain. Thundering around the house, on her own, with me, and with Queen Eva. She does pace herself: one day she'll thunder a lot, next day will be a rest day, day after that quiet play, then she's thundering again. Her coat is thicker and plusher than ever before. Eyes are bright and alert.  Ears clean and pale (pale ears is normal for her). Lovey-dovey and full of purrs.

She hates taking the pill, but takes it.  If it doesn't go down/she spits it out, I try again. If the second try fails I skip it for that day.  She is not getting the hour-fast after the pill.  There's just no way to manage that and avoid dry pilling besides.  She gets the denosyl with her lunch meal which is the smallest meat.  She's had a 6 1/2 hour fast, and gets just 0.25 oz of food to wash the pill down. It's the best I can do.

Her re-test is Friday.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 30, 2017, 05:34:09 PM
Quote
Mazy cat has gained 4 ounces since starting the Denosyl. Any thoughts? 

Not a clue, but then my brain isn't too clear today.  Going back a page or two of this thread, it sounds like you had added canned and she had gained some weight, but you weren't (if I remember correctly - I only took a quick glance) cutting back on the other food to keep the total amount the same.  Is that still the case?

I'm glad she's feeling so well!  Crossing paws that all goes well on Friday.   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 30, 2017, 06:14:56 PM
She was on canned only while on the Baytril antibiotic, then a few days transitioning back to raw. She's been back on her usual raw for a month. I'd forgotten that's when the weight gain started.

Everything, with her, is always so contrary isn't it.

I've read back.  Looks like the weight gain started with the added fat and daily egg yolk back in January.  It was welcome then and seemed to even out, keeping a balance with regurgitation days.  But now has over shot, and she's steadily gaining. I'm not gong to reduce the fat, so will have to reduce meat portion sizes a little.

I want to keep her no heavier than 9 lbs 8 ounces, because of her arthritis. So she's going to have to lose 4 ounces now.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 03, 2017, 01:13:55 PM
Something new going on..the last two times she regurgitated (both breakfast, two days apart, both had fur in it) she staggered, or spasmed or something, after it. She was fine again in seconds, but it was frightening to see.  I thought she was going into a seizure, but I don't think it was.  But I don't know what would cause that.

 Next time she starts to hurl I am going to try to catch it on video.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on May 03, 2017, 01:19:24 PM
 :o :(  GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on May 03, 2017, 02:16:55 PM
THAT is scary!  Video is a very good idea, but hopefully it won't happen again.   fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on May 03, 2017, 02:28:09 PM
That's definitely scary! IF it's going to happen again, I hope you can catch it so you can show a vet. I'm going to cross my fingers that it doesn't happen again though.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 03, 2017, 07:01:21 PM
I've been thinking about this and I remember my reaction the first time I saw her do it, I thought it was like she staggered from the force of the hurl, even though it didn't look that violent.

So I forgot about it, until this morning when it happened again.  Both times she brought up fur with her food, and that is unusual.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on May 03, 2017, 10:34:18 PM
I've been thinking about this and I remember my reaction the first time I saw her do it, I thought it was like she staggered from the force of the hurl,

Maybe that's exactly what it is.  :-\  I'm joining the others in  fingerscrossed that it doesn't happen again.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 05, 2017, 09:33:08 AM
Mazy cat had her recheck today with blood work.  Vet knew exactly what I was talking about with the staggering. Or seemed to.  She suggested it was heart related.  The force of the regurgitation caused (something to do with) the vagal stimulation, causing a fainting spell.  She said the faint can often resemble a seizure (this was BEFORE I said it looked almost like a seizure but I jumped on that and said oh so it WAS a seizure and she said no, it is more likely a fainting spell.It's lack of oxygen to the brain causing the faint, because the heart rhythm is interrupted..  I made her repeat it three times but I still don't completely understand what she meant and don't know how to search for it.

 Geesh, Pookie, wish you could come with me to these appointments!

Mazy cat did great, didn't bit anybody, didn't even scream or holler when having the blood drawn or her anal glands emptied again.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on May 05, 2017, 11:30:52 AM
Google "Seizures vs Fainting" 

Glad Mazy did well.  When do you get the blood work results?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on May 05, 2017, 12:19:09 PM
Vomiting causes inability to breathe.

Inability to breathe causes the lungs, brain, heart to lose oxygen.

Loss of oxygen can cause blackouts (fainting) or partial fainting that looks like loss of control of muscles because the brain, heart, all other muscles need oxygen to work.

Once breathing resumes, the patient returns to normal.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on May 05, 2017, 02:16:23 PM
Geesh, Pookie, wish you could come with me to these appointments!

LOL!

Vomiting causes inability to breathe.

Inability to breathe causes the lungs, brain, heart to lose oxygen.

Loss of oxygen can cause blackouts (fainting) or partial fainting that looks like loss of control of muscles because the brain, heart, all other muscles need oxygen to work.

Once breathing resumes, the patient returns to normal.

 DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

Maybe you should take DeeDee to these appointments!  She did a much better job than I could of understanding and explaining it.  (My brain fog is making it harder to concentrate and comprehend or explain things these days.)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on May 05, 2017, 02:50:10 PM

Maybe you should take DeeDee to these appointments!  She did a much better job than I could of understanding and explaining it.  (My brain fog is making it harder to concentrate and comprehend or explain things these days.)


I just noticed that I left something out after #1: 

Breathing HAS to stop during vomiting or else you get aspiration. Aspiration would be worse than losing breathe due to vomiting because  aspiration leads to choking, asphyxiation and aspiration pneumonia.

Yeah. I'd prefer mine to faint instead of aspirate.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 05, 2017, 04:16:11 PM
Thank you for that Dee. That is very helpful!  But the concern is, why has this started to happen, when it never happened before?  Vet is talking ultrasound again.  One trip, ultrasound of everything, heart, organs, etc.

Blood work results back by Tuesday.  However it may take longer than that to connect with the vet. She'll e mail the file to me, but if there's something to discuss, she wil want to talk first, before giving me a copy.

Incidentally Mazy cat has adjusted amazingly to the daily Denosyl pill at lunch time.  She doesn't like it, but has accepted it.  Maybe because if it misses going down after two tries I stop. But most times it goes right down.  I am a pro at pilling, and she has become a pro at being pilled.  She is just such an amazing cat. Mazy cat was so wild when she came here I never dreamed I'd be able to do anything such as pill her.

She's done with them though and the vet didn't suggest me taking another pack. Either she forgot or she's decided to wait until the blood work.  I forgot to ask about it, even though it was on my list.  I just lose my head, at the vet. I know a lot of people do.  I wasn't that way with Tolly or Ootay though.  Always organized and on top of it all.  Not like that now. Combination of age, and worry over Mazy cat's stress levels maybe.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on May 05, 2017, 04:45:29 PM
Maybe you should start doing like I do. I save questions from one visit to the next in a Word.DOC, and then when we go in, I hand it to him. As soon as he's looked V&B over, we start going down the questions one by one. I never miss a question when he's got a paper in his hand.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 12, 2017, 07:27:32 PM
Mazy cat's liver values have returned to normal. Alt is now 98, was 123, which was what caused all the fuss.  Her eosinophils, by the way have returned to normal range too, after being elevated for almost 2 years.

Did not talk to the vet.  Don't knw if I should keep Mazy cat on the Denosyl or not.  So frustrating to never be able to talk to her.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on May 12, 2017, 11:04:43 PM
Mazy cat's liver values have returned to normal. Alt is now 98, was 123, which was what caused all the fuss.  Her eosinophils, by the way have returned to normal range too, after being elevated for almost 2 years.

That's great news!  multistars multistars multistars

Quote
Did not talk to the vet.  Don't knw if I should keep Mazy cat on the Denosyl or not.  So frustrating to never be able to talk to her.

 :(
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on May 13, 2017, 09:43:44 AM
I'm so glad to hear she's better!

I didn't know her eosinophils were off. I missed that somewhere. Some were just talking about those in a Black Russian thread in FB--except  about lower ones. "Eosinophilia is usually associated with allergies or parasitism," but of course, Vlad had none of that when he was diagnosed Addisonian, and his were low. Because of that, I had to insist that the lower ones were a signal of something going on, and turns out, this dog we were trying to figure out has "fungal pneumonia." I suppose that fungal infections could fall under parasitism though? Anyway, the owner listened to all of us, denied the surgery (dog developed some palate thickening b/c of labored breathing) & dog is in treatment now for the fungus. None of us could see a reason for surgery without finding the underlying problem.

So what is it that makes higher eosinophils? I looked it up and seems that IBD would be the reason that Mazy has/had them. At least I don't remember her having breathing issues like asthma?

Did not talk to the vet.  Don't knw if I should keep Mazy cat on the Denosyl or not.  So frustrating to never be able to talk to her.

If it were Vlad, and since I can't find any contraindications for long-term use, I think I'd leave her on it due to all the past problems.


Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on May 13, 2017, 12:33:08 PM
I am SO glad Mazy is better.  I am SO SORRY contact with your vet is so frickin' frustrating!  Grrrrrr
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 17, 2017, 04:41:16 PM
Thanks All.  Just to clarify, it's Mazy cat's blood work that has improved.  She isn't "better" because she never was sick. :)

  She had elevated ALT, and that was new. High normal is 100.  Hers was 123. Her eosinophils have been elevated for almost 2 years. At 18 at it's highest. 12 is high normal. Vet was all freaking out about parasites and wanting to do ultrasounds.

Mazy cat took Baytril (antibiotic) for two weeks, and the Denosyl (Sam-e liver support) for a month.  Now blood work, both ALT (down to 98) and the eosinophils (down to 7) are back in normal range.

Vet says not to continue the denosyl.  She wants to retest again in 8 weeks.  Not going to happen. Mazy cat needs a break from vet trips. I'll push it to four months.

Until today when it became so hot, Mazy cat has been unbelievably active for a 13 year old cat.  If I hadn't just seen her bloodwork and t-4 numbers, I'd worry about hyper-T. But nope, it is just her feeling good and happy.

It's not really my vets fault that we cannot connect by phone.  Her hours are 8-2:30.  My work hours are 8-4.  I cannot do personal business at work.  Especially not cat stuff. Not because I'm not "allowed".  Because I can't handle it. Work is very busy and I cannot manage my personal life while I am trying to work. Other people can, everyone does it all the time.  I cannot.

Anyway she's doing great,  until today when it got so hot.  It's been very cold here so I haven't had the ac in.  Now it's impossibly hot in here and will be tomorrow too, but then it's supposed to get cool again. Thank goodness.  I used to love it hot.  I don't any more.  love1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on May 18, 2017, 09:18:21 AM

Her eosinophils have been elevated for almost 2 years. At 18 at it's highest. 12 is high normal. Vet was all freaking out about parasites and wanting to do ultrasounds.



Vlad's proof that eosinophils aren't always allergies or parasites. It would seem that so is Mazy.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on May 19, 2017, 01:34:56 AM
I meant "better' as in her liver values and eosinophils being normal.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 22, 2017, 05:00:36 PM
Mazy cat went 19 days without puking.  This morning she brought her breakfast up.  thankfully it was a true regurgitation, it just came up, no force, no projectile, and there was none of that staggering thing.

The ten hour fasts on Friday and Saturday nights are really crucial to her.  I wish I could give her 10 hours every night.

The last time she had to fast 12 hours for bloodwork, she actually ended up going 13 hours without food.   Three days later she had this humongous poop, 5 large pieces, all solid fur. She had been 2 days without a puke at the time with the 13 hour fast.  She went on to go 17 more days.

Twice during that time she had an urpy spell where I thought she was going to, but she didn't.  The first time she ran downstairs and I followed with the camera, and did the hyuck type spasm, but then stopped.  She sniffed around as if she expected to see puke, and that was it.  The second time, she was on my chest and had a couple of burps, then jumped off me and down to the floor.  She hunched there for a moment, then came back up on my chest.

Here's the part that I always get annoyed with msyelf about.  As i served her her second breakfast serving this morning, something in my head said, she's going to bring this back up.  I don't know WHY I thought that but I did.  I hesitated to give it to her, then shrugged it off and gave it to her.  And she brought it right back up (that and the previous serving a from a half hour earlier)

I don't know why I "know", like that sometimes, but I do. Maybe there's something in her look, her face or posture or something, that I am noticing subconsciously.   And I don't know why I don't listen to myself more often, when I do know like that.  But..I don't know how much difference it would have made.  Other times I DO listen, skip the meal,  and it only seems to delay it by a few hours or a day, if I withhold that meal.

I think I am going to aim for a once a month 12 hour fast.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on May 22, 2017, 05:23:20 PM
Wow.  That's a lot of fur!   :o

Quote
Here's the part that I always get annoyed with msyelf about.  As i served her her second breakfast serving this morning, something in my head said, she's going to bring this back up.  I don't know WHY I thought that but I did.  I hesitated to give it to her, then shrugged it off and gave it to her.  And she brought it right back up (that and the previous serving a from a half hour earlier)

I don't know why I "know", like that sometimes, but I do. Maybe there's something in her look, her face or posture or something, that I am noticing subconsciously.   And I don't know why I don't listen to myself more often, when I do know like that.  But..I don't know how much difference it would have made.  Other times I DO listen, skip the meal,  and it only seems to delay it by a few hours or a day, if I withhold that meal.

grouphug

Quote
I think I am going to aim for a once a month 12 hour fast.

 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 25, 2017, 07:30:04 PM
Mazy cat is showing her usual pattern after an extended period with no puke episodes.  The day after she was okay but she threw up yesterday, and again tonight.  None of that staggering thank goodness.  They were what I've come to think of as shallow pukes...not a lot of force or projectile.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on May 25, 2017, 10:37:49 PM
Quote
None of that staggering thank goodness.
  Yay! 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 26, 2017, 04:12:29 PM
And again this morning, and acting sick.  Hope today is the end of it.  Those long stretches..almost not worth it because of what comes after.  Not that I do have a choice, but I'm not sure which way is worse, for her or for me.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on May 26, 2017, 04:24:28 PM
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on May 27, 2017, 11:31:28 AM
The reason I said "yay" to your no staggering comment, is because I was TRYING to find some good in it all.  LOTS of hugs! 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 27, 2017, 12:10:15 PM
Yes that staggering thing was really frightening. Maybe the long spell with no puke helped in some way. She had a 10 1/2 hour fast over night and has eaten all her breakfast and supplements  (1.75 ounces) without incident.  I spaced it out over a period of 2 1/2 hours, small amounts.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 27, 2017, 04:37:57 PM
Nope,. not over yet.  Just brought up her supper pre-meal.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on May 27, 2017, 09:03:45 PM
Nope,. not over yet.  Just brought up her supper pre-meal.

:(  I am sorry, MC.  I can only imagine how difficult all of this is on Mazy AND you.   grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 27, 2017, 09:09:40 PM
 love1 love1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on May 27, 2017, 09:15:52 PM
Oh my gosh... SOOOOOOOO beautiful!   
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on May 27, 2017, 09:23:04 PM
Awww . . . such a pretty girl!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 28, 2017, 08:21:42 AM
I know, she is stunning isn't she?

I'm noticing she is crouching for a few minutes after eating=tummy ache so this morning I have started adding three drops of ACV to each serving. This has eliminated the after-eating crouch, but she really needs to poop, too. She's overdue. I know there is a huge wad of fur hanging around in there she needs to pass.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 01, 2017, 06:46:19 PM
Yesterday was day four in her cycle so I was watchful. After her third breakfast serving she seemed a bit urpy so I didn't give her the fourth. I am still including ACV in every serving for now. She ate her lunch but had a coughing spell before it and looked very uncomfortable after.

After her pre-meal in the evening she continued to look unhappy so I decided not to feed her any more food, and she had only bone broth the rest of the night. At bed time I did mix it with her 1/4 egg yolk, her slippery elm bark and marshmallow root, and her probiotic and more ACV and she kept it down, and today she was back to normal.

So now day 5....
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on June 01, 2017, 09:39:21 PM
Give Mazy a BIG hug from her Aunt Lola!  (Whether she wants one or not.)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 02, 2017, 04:22:31 PM
Aww fanks Antee Lola (from Mazy cat)  HeadButt

Mazy cat ate her first two breakfast meals okay this morning but showed more signs of that coughing she gets when (I suspect) there is a wad of fur stuck.  I only fed her a very small amount for her 3rd portion, adding SEB to it along with the usual MR, probiotic and cosequin and ACV.  I didn't give her any more, though she showed interest.  I was hoping for a furry poop when I came home fro lunch, but was disappointed.  There was a small poop, and I think it was hers, because Jennie and Queen Eva had already pooped, there was no fur in it at all.

She ate lunch without trouble and was eager for her supper pre-meal when I came home just now.  But it came back up, with a big wad of fur right at the top of it.  After she brought the meal up she got in the litter box and had the big furry poop I'd been hoping for.

So, on we go.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 28, 2017, 07:10:37 PM
It's just the nature of the beast.

Today was day 7 in her non vomit cycle so I had already planned to reduce her rations for the day.  I am always hoping....

She was also due for a poop and had one in the early morning.  Normal size, mostly fur.  So, while I still planned to skip her last breakfast serving, I fed her the first two servings (half hour apart) with every confidence that they would stay down.  The first meal did, the second, a half hour later, did not, and both meals came up with the episode. 

No stagger (that has never come back thankfully).  And no fur in the puke either.  I want you guys to know that as hard as I have worked at acceptance over these episodes, lately most of the time I am there.  I don't writhe in helpless agony over every puke.  I simply praise Mazy cat for making it to the cardboard, and clean it up.  On we go.

So I gave her the last meal of the morning, adding in two of the supplements that had come up with the first two meals, plus I added some SEB. (she doesn't usually get that in the morning, only at bed time)  That serving usually only includes marshmallow root, cosequin, her morning probiotic and a drop of ACV.  But I added the SEB and her s.boulardii, skipping the EYL for the morning.

She ate that without trouble, then went down to the litter boxes and had another, larger poop, again, full of fur.

So you see...no matter how much I try to look ahead, plan, work around...somehow, it always comes, that vomit episode always comes.  I realize of course that if I wasn't always trying to look ahead and prevent, it could be much worse.

And I am grateful that, most of the time now, I seem to have reached that place of acceptance.  Sometimes I still do get upset..especially if she has episodes too close together, for too often, but mostly..I am coping and not feeling that helpless frustration any more.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on June 28, 2017, 07:18:23 PM
You have done and do everything imaginable!  I believe you know that.  I also get it that it still makes you feel badly FOR her.  HUGS to you both!!! 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on June 28, 2017, 11:24:33 PM
You have done and do everything imaginable!  I believe you know that.  I also get it that it still makes you feel badly FOR her.  HUGS to you both!!! 

This . . .  DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

I'm glad it's gotten easier to accept.  And in a way, that probably helps Mazy, too.  Less stress for both of you, if that makes sense.  grouphug  Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 29, 2017, 05:05:34 AM
Thanks you guys. Yes it was for her sake mostly I am glad I am not getting so agonized over it. Hard enough on her as it is.  HeadButt HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on June 29, 2017, 04:37:00 PM
Progress!   thumbsup1 thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 05, 2017, 05:19:47 AM
Darn. Four 10 + hour fasts overnight in a row and she she didn't produce that big furry poop that is due.  Her regular poops, but they haven't been very furry.  So the fur is building up.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on July 05, 2017, 01:18:30 PM
Darn. Four 10 + hour fasts overnight in a row and she she didn't produce that big furry poop that is due.  Her regular poops, but they haven't been very furry.  So the fur is building up.

:(   
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 07, 2017, 08:18:21 AM
Darn. Four 10 + hour fasts overnight in a row and she she didn't produce that big furry poop that is due.  Her regular poops, but they haven't been very furry.  So the fur is building up.

After a 'regular' small poop yesterday morning, yesterday evening right before supper she finally had the furry poop I've been watching for.  It wasn't as large as I would expect, so there's more in there.  But it was pure fur. Hardly even a poop shell on it.   I bet that scratches coming out.

She's on day six of her cycle which is a good thing.  Last night I dreamed of cat puke.  It was everywhere.  Every where I stepped or looked in the apartment.  Ugh!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 08, 2017, 05:54:59 PM
Well I guess I should say "finally" though puking is not something I usually celebrate.

7 and 1/2 days... She just brought up her first supper serving.  Big wad of fur in it too.  She almost never brings up fur. Poor little thing. I was unable to watch (to check for the stagger) because I was dishing out the other two's meals and if I'd left them, Jennie would have had everything eaten by the time I came back  up to the kitchen.

 It did smell a bit foul, usually does when fur comes up. Makes me think this is the fur I've been wanting to see in her poop but hasn't shown up.  Glad she's rid of it, anyway.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 08, 2017, 10:49:34 PM
 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on July 09, 2017, 04:16:23 PM
 HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 15, 2017, 09:40:42 AM
Mazy cat has a new pattern this summer.  She goes 6 or 7 days with no puke, then vomits food and fur, skips a day, vomits food and fur again, then goes on to another 6-7 day span.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 26, 2017, 04:27:29 PM
 Rough episode last night.  It was 8 days into her cycle so I was expecting a vomit.  Usually she lets me know it's coming.  But this time she didn't, or I missed her signs. She was already downstairs, there was a smell on my boots that was attracting her and she'd been rolling all over them. (I have to walk though cat nip to get to my door this time of year  funny2)

I head this awful wheezing sound and ran downstairs to see her trying to puke, she'd brought some up but for some reason the rest wasn't coming and she was making this awful sound and running across the floor.  She dripped vomit as she ran, then jumped up on the box there, and puked the rest all down the side of the box and wall.  She'd only had 0.2 oz and there was a lot more than that, so it was her lunch coming up too.

After a half hour I gave her some of the George's aloe/SEB mixture, though I am really on the fence about whether it helps her or not.  Sometimes it seems to, but sometimes not, and this was one of the times not.

She did eat her first supper meal (I gave  it in two parts) and her second meal an hour later with her GLM and ACV, but then she got very urpy.  She didn't vomit any more but she was very uncomfortable.  I lay down on the couch o she could get on my chest and knead, I wanted her to purr as much as possible.  She had two more meals to go last night but I didn't give her anything else except a very small amount of plain chicken raw breast with SEB at bedtime.

This morning she was back to normal.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on July 26, 2017, 11:40:15 PM
Quote
I have to walk though cat nip to get to my door this time of year

THAT is funnnnnnnny!

Quote
This morning she was back to normal.

 thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 27, 2017, 07:13:38 PM
Following her new "pattern" she brought up her supper meal and a big wad of fur. She was back to normal immediately after and asking for food 30 minutes later.

She and Queen Eva have been thundering around the house like crazy these past few days.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on August 25, 2017, 05:48:36 AM
Yesterday morning Mazy cat had a vomit episode that resulted in the staggering after again. First breakfast premeal, and I could tell she was hurling from deep with.

This was 4 days after her last one, which had followed her usual 7 day pattern.

She brought it up, crouched for a split second, started to walk away from it and then her legs went into that stiff stagger.  It lasted only 2 seconds, but I saw it.

No fur came up, but it was foul, which means there was fur blocking the exit from her stomach.

She wanted breakfast again almost immediately but I fed her very lightly, making her wait a half hour and then only 0.2 oz of Rad Cat loaded with SEB and MR and water.

When I came home for lunch there was a single stool in the box..all fur.  All has been well since.


Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on August 25, 2017, 10:48:35 AM
I always feel so sorry for her. I wish there was a permanent solution for this for all cats. Some people saying shave them doesn't make sense to me. They're still going to groom. They're still going to have the same hairs falling out whether they're short hairs or long hairs.

I think the only reason people say that they shed less is because the hairs they're shedding are so much shorter that it's like an optical illusion. Having the same number of hairs being shorter just means that it looks like less hair falling out. It's still the same number of hairs no matter what.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on August 25, 2017, 01:08:54 PM
Thanks Dee.  There are a number of people in the IBD group who swear by shaving, if not the whole body, just the underside, but I will not do it to Mazy cat.

There IS a permanent solution to these kinds of problems.  Never ever feed kibble. Better yet, avoid all highly processesed food and feed raw. :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on August 27, 2017, 12:02:20 PM
Maybe it's been suggested before, or you've already looked into it, but I wonder . . . if adding a little magnesium to her diet would help the motility issue.  Magnesium relaxes muscles and calcium contracts them.  Maybe just a touch of magnesium would help her muscles to relax enough so that she wouldn't get blocked?   :-\

Just a rambling idea . . .
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on August 27, 2017, 02:32:00 PM
No I hadn't thought of adding magnesium.  I rely on the ACV for maximum absorption of calcium and magnesium. Hmmm...

I wouldn't know how much to add. I take magnesium myself, and have been considering looking for a pure powder form as opposed to the tablets I am taking now.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on August 27, 2017, 03:04:24 PM
This place is kind of like Dr. Google as a source for many things, but I'm sure these amounts are right because they're not ranting on raw food:

http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/endocrine/c_ct_hypomagnesemia
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on August 27, 2017, 04:11:30 PM
This place is kind of like Dr. Google as a source for many things, but I'm sure these amounts are right because they're not ranting on raw food:

http://www.petmd.com/cat/conditions/endocrine/c_ct_hypomagnesemia

Thanks Dee. I don't see anything in there that suggests supplement dosages?  Mazy cat certainly isn't suffering from a deficiency. I would not want to risk her having too much. Cats' systems are so different from humans...and supplementation of anything like this could be very dangerous.

I was interested in the comments about acetylcholine, since this is an important nutrient aiding in motility but I didn't understand the comment at all:

nd is also important in the production and elimination of acetylcholine (a neurotransmitter); a low concentration of magnesium in the extracellular fluid (fluid outside of the cells) can increase concentrations of acetylcholine at motor endplates, resulting in an involuntary reaction of muscles. Interference with the electrical gradient can result in neuromuscular and cardiac abnormalities.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on August 27, 2017, 05:47:38 PM

nd is also important in the production and elimination of acetylcholine (a neurotransmitter); a low concentration of magnesium in the extracellular fluid (fluid outside of the cells) can increase concentrations of acetylcholine at motor endplates, resulting in an involuntary reaction of muscles. Interference with the electrical gradient can result in neuromuscular and cardiac abnormalities.



Acetylcholine is necessary, has to be produced, but also has to be eliminated--a constant turnover. Without proper levels of acetylcholine being eliminated while production continues, it's going to cause neurological problems with muscles--and specifically the heart muscle.

Without proper levels of magnesium, you're risking that occurring.

Honestly though, you're not going to know where levels are without blood being tested. But if you want to supplement her with anything, I'd use some organic alfalfa powder. That's what I use for part of the natural vitamins for the boys now. That way it's balanced with other minerals already. This is one thing I've carried away from the co-op that I think is good. The mineral and vitamin profile looks like a bottle of pet vitamins. http://herbs.lovetoknow.com/Alfalfa_Nutrients (http://herbs.lovetoknow.com/Alfalfa_Nutrients)

I just don't count it as the calcium replacement with boneless meat. Vlad gets a teaspoon a day, and Barkly gets 1/4 teaspoon a day. After looking at everything, I look at alfalfa and spirulina (or kelp) to be no different from handing them a Canine-Plus in the past, except now I'm not giving them something that's been made in a lab instead of the earth.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on August 27, 2017, 06:01:41 PM
I really do not think Mazy cat is magnesium deficient. I'm not going to risk overdosing her by supplementing.  Her diet is balanced and the ACV assures the absorption of magnesium and calcium.

While vomiting every 7-8 days, with a rare longer span, and sometimes a few more frequent episodes thrown in, is not ideal, it's livable for both of us.  I just can't risk upsetting what we've got now.

Mazy cat is over 13.  While I know that's not elderly, I just can't put her through any more.  She's thriving. This is it, for her. I'm done experimenting.   Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 05, 2017, 05:14:00 PM
Oh my gosh. Came home from work and the power was out.  Never, not ever has that happened in all the time I lived here. I panicked.  What was I going to feed Mazy cat?  Queen Eva and Jennie could eat the canned food, And for how long would it be out?  All that meat. I didn't dare open the fridge, even to get Mazy cats prepared meal out.

I went to Hannaford and bought a ton of water, just in case. Came back and opened a can of Tiki, just to try.  Gave a little to all three cats. Jennie & Queen Eva went wild when they heard the can pop so of course I had to let them have it.  Gave a tiny bit to Mazy cat.  She ate it but very slowly, she wasn't sure she liked it.  It came right back up. Right after she puked the power came back on.  I still have a few cans of her old organic brand that she was always able to eat but the "best by" date is May 2017 and I was afraid to use it.

Mazy cat just can't eat anything that isn't organic non GMO.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 06, 2017, 07:50:33 PM
Thankfully there doesn't seem to have been any long term effects from that canned food. But it does just remind me again that I need to find a good organic canned food she CAN eat.  There is just...nothing appropriate
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on September 06, 2017, 08:47:36 PM
You might need to learn to can meats for her for emergency rations. You'd at least get one worry off your hands.

http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2015/01/canning-meat.html
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on September 06, 2017, 08:59:31 PM
You might need to learn to can meats for her for emergency rations. You'd at least get one worry off your hands.

http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2015/01/canning-meat.html

That's a great idea!  It never even occurred to me.   Doh1  You're a genius!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on September 07, 2017, 02:56:01 PM
Wow... who would have thought! 
As the writer mentioned, something about canning meat does sound gross. 
Great idea though!  My pet food freezer is often full with ready to thaw meals, meat and organs waiting to be ground, meat already ground, pre-made meals.  I could use a pet food cupboard.  :) 

Is it a possibility for you, MC?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 07, 2017, 03:39:59 PM
I looked into that when I first started making my own soup. No that is not something I am likely to ever attempt.  I don't have a pressure canner and would be afraid to use it if I did.  I do have an electric pressure cooker but only use it as a slow cooker.  I won't use pressure cooking so I certainly am not going to use pressure canning.

Not to mention the botulism risk. 

But I thank you Dee for trying to help.

I need a canned food Mazy cat can eat. What if she has to be hospitalized ever?  Not that I am very likely to be willing to put her through something like that,. but you never know until you're faced with it, you know? I keep searching, but have not found one that fits the bill.  By Nature just ruined my life when they gave up the organic line, haha!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on September 07, 2017, 05:02:24 PM
How about organic meat canned for humans? You'd have to add the minerals and vitamins with that stuff that's mixed with raw food (brain freeze here on the name), but it would be organic and canned. Surely if there were an emergency, the hospital could actually measure a bit out for her to eat?

http://www.wildplanetfoods.com/product/value-vault-organic-roasted-chicken-breast-nsa-12-pack/

https://www.foodcity.com/product/0004711709700/

I think I'd be tempted to try some of the canned meats from the Amish. They don't go after "organic" labeling b/c of hoops, but they eat organic, and that's why so many of them are so much healthier than (for lack of a better word) "normal people" are. I know preppers use the Troyer and Yoder brands of canned meats, and there's a ton of different meats available.



I can't remember. What is Agar-Agar? http://naturalplanetpetfood.com/pet-food/cat-dinner/10

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 07, 2017, 06:32:33 PM
How about organic meat canned for humans? You'd have to add the minerals and vitamins with that stuff that's mixed with raw food (brain freeze here on the name), but it would be organic and canned. Surely if there were an emergency, the hospital could actually measure a bit out for her to eat?

http://www.wildplanetfoods.com/product/value-vault-organic-roasted-chicken-breast-nsa-12-pack/

https://www.foodcity.com/product/0004711709700/

I think I'd be tempted to try some of the canned meats from the Amish. They don't go after "organic" labeling b/c of hoops, but they eat organic, and that's why so many of them are so much healthier than (for lack of a better word) "normal people" are. I know preppers use the Troyer and Yoder brands of canned meats, and there's a ton of different meats available.



I can't remember. What is Agar-Agar? http://naturalplanetpetfood.com/pet-food/cat-dinner/10



Agar-agar is a seaweed thickener that pet food companies have started using after consumers caught on to how bad carrageenan is. Don't be fooled, it's no better.

Dee I so appreciate you trying to help me.  Canned meat for human meats can't be balanced with premixes, even ones like EZcomplete which can be used with either raw or cooked meat.

The reason is, the amounts of premixes to use are based on the meat when it is raw.  Even if you're going to cook it, you need to know the weight of the meat raw first.  Then the meat has to be cooked in a way that all juices are retained and added to the final product.

With canned meat there is no way of knowing the weight of the meat or if the juices were retained.  And of course they also are much too high in sodium for cats, even the "reduced sodium" brands.

All the pet food organic brands have nasty things in them.  If not carrageenan, grains, or fruits and vegetables, or weird crap. I've searched and searched.

One of the reasons I want a canned food is because, for some reason, when Mazy cat is ill, or on antibiotics, she goes off her raw diet.  She loves it, but last summer with her mouth trouble, and subsequent baytril and this past winter when she was on the baytril, she flat out refused to eat any raw. At those times I still had some of the By Nature left.  I still do, but the cans' best by date is May 2017.

I don't know if there is any out there with a later date..I've thought about looking on e bay, but I've never bought anything from e bay and don't trust it.

Edited to add...actually Dee it wouldn't be a bad idea to at least keep a can or two handy, just in case I face what happened the other night again.  I mean, it wouldn't hurt her to eat an unbalanced meal a time or two. If she could keep it down.  She needs her food mashed fine, but I could do that with a fork.  I did it with the Tiki, after all.  I'll need to see if I can find it in singles though, not a whole case.  So thank you for that great idea!.


But wait a minute (editing again)  Mazy cat needs a slow introduction to anything new. She can handle the By Nature, even when she hadn't had it for a long time, because she ate it for years, so her body was used to it.  I'd have to start adding a meal of this to her rotation on a regular basis.  Oh gosh, that won't work.  Even with no salt added you know it's still too high in sodium for a cat.

I do slow transitions even now.  I never allow her food to run out before I have a new batch waiting, and the last week of the old batch is rotated with the new batch so she gets a slow transition.  Everything.  Meat, Rad Cat, supplements, EZc, I do that with EVERYTHING that goes into her.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 09, 2017, 09:46:53 AM
Mazy cat had her 7 day cycle puke this morning with her second breakfast meal.  It was terribly foul.  She had a good poop last ngiht and the night before but neither had as much fur as I would have hoped, so I wasn't really surprised.  There was no fur in it, so the fur was already making it's way down, but blocking things up.

Because it was so foul I gave her the George's aloe/SEB blob with s.boulardii added, waited a half hour then gave her a small meal with her marshmallow root, and other supplements.   Another 40 minutes, I gave her another small meal, then she will have two more small meals before I leave the house.  I'l be gone most of the day, so she'll have a good stretch of fasting again to let the mucilage go to work and push that stuff through.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 05, 2017, 05:09:58 AM
Something new this morning.  We went down to the litter boxes as usual. I saw she had already peed.  I knew Mazy cat was due for a poop so after asking her "Do you want a ride?" I lifted her up into the litter box she likes to poop in.  Instead of pooping she puked up two sizable wads of fur!  Mazy never brings up fur without food.  I always do wish, if she has to bring it up, it would come up before the meal!  This time, for the first time ever, it did.  I scooped it out and praised her to the skies.  She hopped out of the box. 

But wait....what about your poop Mazy cat?  She turned to look at me when I said that so I picked her up and put her back in the box she likes to poop in.  This time she obliged with a poop.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 09, 2017, 05:14:23 PM
Aside from that litter aberration reported above Mazy cat is continuing with her current patter.  She goes 6 or 7 or sometimes 10 days without vomiting.  Then she vomits a meal. 

Often, lately, those vomits do contain wads of fur.  She didn't used to bring any fur up. But it is coming up now.  No staggering.  Then she skips a day, then she vomits again, again with fur.  Then she goes on for another 6, 7 or 10 days.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 28, 2017, 05:25:49 PM
Mazy cat has a new pattern, just in case I was getting bored.  She's stopped bringing up fur in her most recent episodes.  And lately, after she brings up the meal, when she indicates she's ready to eat again and I give her a small amount, that comes up too.  Again, no fur.

Her spans between continue to run every 7-10 days, except this one which was only 4 days.  But I know she's got some fur needing to be moved.  Her last week or so of poops she's been passing almost no fur.  I finally gave her a few drops of mineral oil (not something I recommend generally speaking) with Sunday lunch, and yesterday afternoon she gifted me with a nice furry poop. 

But it wasn't enough. Obviously.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 29, 2017, 05:39:57 AM
Mazy cat didn't eat again until bed time.  She ate a small meal of chicken breast, skin and egg yolk, with SEB and probiotic, and kept it down.

Incidentally, in spite of her tummy upsets she was quite lively and playful last night.

Early this morning I heard her coughing, before I got up.  She coughed again shortly after I got up.  I decided, given her issues last night and the coughing this morning, to give her a little coconut oil meal this morning. Just a tiny amount of food mixed with half a tsp of coconut oil.  This seems to help her when she's coughing.  I still believe the coughing is not asthma related, but rather she gets fur stuck in her throat.  What contributes to this theory is the coconut oil always makes her feel better.

Her coughing is sporadic and not frequent.  Have discussed it with the vet.

By the way she had her check up November 10.  Her liver values (ALT) are creeping back up again..only 105 (100 is high normal), but just the fact that they are rising.

She'll be going back on the Denosyl, vet wanted to retest in a month.  I asked, could I go two months.  I just can't justify putting Mazy cat through appointments this often.  So when the denosyl comes she'll take it for two months, and then I'll have to bring her back for retesting.

Her lymphocytes are low, but I didn't get a chance to ask what that means.  There is something wrong with my phone since the cable "upgrade" which I didn't realize until I actually used it and the connection was very poor when talking to the vet...

Edited to add, this morning I've opted to give her third meal as her final meal and added extra mucilage/anti inflammatory.  Normally her third meal has marshmallow root (mucilage/anti inflammatory), cosequin, probiotic and ACV. 

Today I added 1/8 tsp of slippery elm bark (mucilage/anti inflammatory) as well, and did not give her the fourth meal.  This will give all that mucilage time to work and hopefully get things moving..
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 30, 2017, 06:24:05 AM
Mazy cat is doing much better, all better even, this morning.  At lunch time yesterday she was still urpy, and last night, while she ate and kept things down, she did not clean her dishes, and at one point did sit like she had a bit of tummy ache. 

None of this stopped her from being her usual Thunder Around The House cat though. Almost 14 and still playing like a kitten.  All my cats have always done so.

Last night in bed I kept dreaming that she wasn't eating at all.  Ugh.

Anyway, she hasn't had a poop since Tuesday night so she is due, (she goes every 36 hours) but I am guessing, by her feeling better, that the wad has finally started to move out. I mean, finally got itself past the pyloric opening into the intestine, and hopefully on to the colon and OUT.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 30, 2017, 04:24:41 PM
Mazy cat is still doing well.  I found a single solid fur poop when I came home for lunch, small, but all fur. Thankfully her fur is so much lighter in color than the other two, I can identify it as hers with no guessing.  Must have been rough pushing that thing out!  After she ate she had another poop, but it also was just three small pieces and not much fur. No straining.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 01, 2017, 04:49:52 AM
More fur poop this morning. No straining, but man, that fur must feel scratchy coming out I would think.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on December 01, 2017, 09:19:53 AM
Nothing to add...just listening. 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on December 01, 2017, 09:28:06 AM
More fur poop this morning. No straining, but man, that fur must feel scratchy coming out I would think.

But is it top-coat or undercoat that's coming out with grooming? I know V&B's undercoat feels like silk.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 02, 2017, 08:03:04 AM
But is it top-coat or undercoat that's coming out with grooming? I know V&B's undercoat feels like silk.

Mazy cat's fur is very soft, especially the light colored undercoat, but still, I don't know if it feels soft actually coming out.  I haven't ever actually touched it, to see, when pulling poop apart.  Maybe next time I will.

Stay tuned

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 11, 2017, 05:47:16 AM
In case anyone has been holding your breath on this, I have not yet taken the time to stroke the fur in Mazy cat's poop, to see if it is scratchy or soft.  funny2
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 14, 2017, 05:22:35 AM
Mazy cat's last cycle lasted two days.  She didn't vomit the second day but was still feeling urpy and skipped a couple of meals.  She's been like that before, I just want it on record here, so I can check back.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 24, 2017, 08:44:04 AM
Mazy cat went 11 days between pukes this time. While on paper that sounds great, it really isn't because, when she goes more than a week, her established pattern is she pukes for several days afterward.

Yesterday morning she brought up her third breakfast meal, and I didn't even know until I went into the bedroom and found it on the rug.  (usually she runs downstairs and pukes on the cardboard I keep on the floor down there)

No fur in it, very very foul smelling, which is also typical for a longer span between.  It may have been more than just a single meal, hard to know since it had been there long enough to soak into the rug a bit.

So I gave her an aloe/seb blob and a tiny bit of food to wash the blod down, and that was all before I left the house.  I was gone about 6 hours, and spent the rest of the afternoon and evening just feeding her very small meals, with plain meat and bone broth.  All seemed to be going well until her bedrtime meal (which did contain egg yolk and SEB) came back up, and it was foul smelling again. That one had a blob of fur in it, but it was fresh fur.

This morning she had a small poop, and it had a little fur in it, but not enough. She's getting tiny amounts (0.2 oz) every half hour.

I do have a question.  I weighed them this morning and she was 2 ounces down from last week.  She usually stays pretty steady, not varying by more than a half ounce. Could yesterday's food deficit have caused a temporary 2 oz weight loss? Like..."water weight"..you think?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 07, 2018, 10:44:54 AM
Today I started the Organix canned food introduction, chicken pate.  I am posting it in Mazy cat's thread because it is Mazy cat who is the issue.  I am sure Jennie and Queen Eva could handle any canned food, any time (not that I would give them just "any")

As I have mentioned here and there, I need a canned food Mazy cat can eat, for emergencies (such as a power outage).  Even after a year or more without it, she could eat the By Nature Organic, without re-introduction, because her body had always been able to handle it.  Since that is gone, I have been searching for years for something else.

Organix recently revised their recipes and have gotten two certifications, USDA Organic, and equally, if not more,  important (to Mazy cat) non-GMO Project Verified.  They still include things I would rather not feed, the food is very pea heavy, and has other fruits and veg in smaller amounts.  But no gums, no carrageenan no menadione sodium bisulfate.

I have got to have something.

I've been talking to Feline Natural by the way.  While they are not certified organic or non-GMO Project Verified, they are a New Zealand company and that is where their ingredients come from, and they have confirmed their foods are non-GMO (I think GMO is mainly a problem in the USA)

I haven't turned to their canned foods to try because they don't have single source proteins.  however in a recent conversation with them they told me they are planning a new line with single source proteins.  So that may be a better option, in the future.

Organix isn't ideal.  it is pea heavy (as was the By Nature so I know Mazy cat can handle it), has other ingredients I don't like, and is owned by Purina, which galls me.  But (they claim) they operate independently, and they HAVE gone through the rigorous and expensive steps to become USDA Certified Organic and non-GMO Project Verified.

Jennie and Queen Eva each had half an ounce today and Mazy cat had 0.2 oz.  In a couple of days I will slip her another 0.2 ounces and continue that way for a couple of weeks, every few days.  Once I am sure it's not going to bother her ( fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed)  I will try her with a bigger serving every few days.  If that stays down consistently I will consider her transitioned and just have it here for emergencies.

Incidentally, they all went berserk over it. funny2
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 07, 2018, 11:08:10 AM
Today I started the Organix canned food introduction, chicken pate.  I am posting it in Mazy cat's thread because it is Mazy cat who is the issue.  I am sure Jennie and Queen Eva could handle any canned food, any time (not that I would give them just "any")

As I have mentioned here and there, I need a canned food Mazy cat can eat, for emergencies (such as a power outage).  Even after a year or more without it, she could eat the By Nature Organic, without re-introduction, because her body had always been able to handle it.  Since that is gone, I have been searching for years for something else.

Organix recently revised their recipes and have gotten two certifications, USDA Organic, and equally, if not more,  important (to Mazy cat) non-GMO Project Verified.  They still include things I would rather not feed, the food is very pea heavy, and has other fruits and veg in smaller amounts.  But no gums, no carrageenan no menadione sodium bisulfate.

I have got to have something.

I've been talking to Feline Natural by the way.  While they are not certified organic or non-GMO Project Verified, they are a New Zealand company and that is where their ingredients come from, and they have confirmed their foods are non-GMO (I think GMO is mainly a problem in the USA)

I haven't turned to their canned foods to try because they don't have single source proteins.  however in a recent conversation with them they told me they are planning a new line with single source proteins.  So that may be a better option, in the future.

Organix isn't ideal.  it is pea heavy (as was the By Nature so I know Mazy cat can handle it), has other ingredients I don't like, and is owned by Purina, which galls me.  But (they claim) they operate independently, and they HAVE gone through the rigorous and expensive steps to become USDA Certified Organic and non-GMO Project Verified.

Jennie and Queen Eva each had half an ounce today and Mazy cat had 0.2 oz.  In a couple of days I will slip her another 0.2 ounces and continue that way for a couple of weeks, every few days.  Once I am sure it's not going to bother her ( fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed)  I will try her with a bigger serving every few days.  If that stays down consistently I will consider her transitioned and just have it here for emergencies.

Incidentally, they all went berserk over it. funny2

PS  I forgot to mention:  No crouch immediately after eating, indicating a tummy ache, even though I forgot to add a drop of ACV! 

Now it is 45 minutes later.

No puke. No sign of urpiness at all

 If she can tolerate this food, this is going to be a huge worry off my mind.

One more thing, those 2 ounces she lost in December have stayed lost, though no more loss. So slipping the extra canned bits in will help her put that back on too.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 07, 2018, 05:11:23 PM
First day, first hurdles. 

1)She kept it down.  If rejected immediately by her body, I wouldn't try again.

2) She did not show any signs of discomfort at any time period after eating it.

3) 3 hours later she had her denosyl and normal raw lunch.  Again, no signs of discomfort.

4) 3 hours later again, she's had her pre-meal (raw).  Had a pee, and a Game after that.  All is still well.

So, I know her body can handle it.  Now to give it in a way for her body to get used to it, permanently, so if ever there is a time I have to abruptly switch to it for a full meal, or for a longer period of time, either way she will be able to handle it.

Incidentally, today is day 8 in her non vomit cycle.   
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 07, 2018, 08:20:52 PM
First day, first hurdles. 

1)She kept it down.  If rejected immediately by her body, I wouldn't try again.

2) She did not show any signs of discomfort at any time period after eating it.

3) 3 hours later she had her denosyl and normal raw lunch.  Again, no signs of discomfort.

4) 3 hours later again, she's had her pre-meal (raw).  Had a pee, and a Game after that.  All is still well.

So, I know her body can handle it.  Now to give it in a way for her body to get used to it, permanently, so if ever there is a time I have to abruptly switch to it for a full meal, or for a longer period of time, either way she will be able to handle it.

Incidentally, today is day 8 in her non vomit cycle.   

 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed  Cautiously optimistic (don't want to jinx anything . . . )  fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 08, 2018, 05:15:23 PM
Thanks Pookie.  I'll give her some more tomorrow and Thursday and again on Sunday and the same next week. Then I'll do one full meal a week, on Sundays, for a while, just to be sure.  After that I'll consider her properly introduced to it, and I'll just save it for emergencies.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 09, 2018, 05:46:48 AM
Mazy cat brought up her breakfast this morning.  All of it I think, both servings.  A small wad of fur in it.  It's been 10 days so I expected it, and I also expected it to be foul, which is was not.

The only concerning thing is her yesterday's denosyl was in it.  Which means it sat in her stomach all this time. Blocked by fur I guess.  The rest of her food is getting through, obviously, because the puke was not foul.  But very strange the denosyl was still there.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 09, 2018, 06:30:00 AM
I've had a thought.  Did she had a wad of fur in her gullet yesterday at lunch time?  And the pill got glommed up in that, so never passed through?  Is that possible?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 09, 2018, 11:40:36 AM
I've had a thought.  Did she had a wad of fur in her gullet yesterday at lunch time?  And the pill got glommed up in that, so never passed through?  Is that possible?

Anything is possible.  It seems weird to me that the pill didn't dissolve if it was sitting in her stomach, unless she needs some ACV (with her food) when she takes it.  I forget -- she gets the pill daily or every other day?  If daily, was it actually today's pill?  Sorry, I'm too lazy to check the rest of the thread . . .
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on January 09, 2018, 12:58:38 PM
Quote
It seems weird to me that the pill didn't dissolve

That is what came to my mind!  Holy Moly!!! 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 09, 2018, 01:18:01 PM
The Denosyl is given once a day with her lunch meal.  Her stomach is empty when it is given, and it is chased by 0.4 oz of food. Then she doesn't eat again for 3 hours.

This morning's regurgitation had the denosyl, still intact, but soft ( I squished it) in the vomit. At first I thought it was a bit of carrot, I couldn't imagine where she would have gotten it. Then I realized, when I squished it, it was the pill.

Mazy cat gets a drop or two of ACV in almost every meal, including lunch.

It is the weirdest thing.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on January 09, 2018, 01:29:46 PM
I can't remember. Did you look into some digestive enzymes for her?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 09, 2018, 03:40:06 PM
I can't remember. Did you look into some digestive enzymes for her?

Mazy cat gets digestive enzymes in her EZcomplete meals (EZc contains digestive enzymes).  She takes ACV in her other meals.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on January 09, 2018, 04:07:29 PM
No Proviable DC anymore... or was that someone else... besides myself.  :) 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on January 09, 2018, 04:13:15 PM
Mazy cat gets digestive enzymes in her EZcomplete meals (EZc contains digestive enzymes).  She takes ACV in her other meals.

If there's any chance at all that she has pancreatic insufficiency, she needs extra enzymes at every meal. I'm suspecting that because  the Denosyl didn't digest. I read somewhere that PI is common in animals that had been fed an improper diet in the past. Their pancreas just gets worn out working so hard to digest it.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 09, 2018, 04:34:03 PM
No Proviable DC anymore... or was that someone else... besides myself.  :) 

Proviable DC is probiotic.  She takes a capsule morning and a capsule bedtime. :)

If there's any chance at all that she has pancreatic insufficiency, she needs extra enzymes at every meal. I'm suspecting that because  the Denosyl didn't digest. I read somewhere that PI is common in animals that had been fed an improper diet in the past. Their pancreas just gets worn out working so hard to digest it.

Some possibility I suppose.  Her routine blood work does not indicate this, nor does anything else, except the chronic vomiting. She does not lose weight, or have diarrhea, or a poor coat or any of the other things. But she has not had the fTLI blood tests.

I'm just not wiling to put her through very much including steroids.

It's odd that she never threw up a Denosyl before though.  She pukes regularly, so if they weren't dissolving and going on their way, seems like I would have found them before now.  And yes I always pick over her puke very carefully before cleaning it up.

She has been on other digestive enzymes, I've tried Prozyme and Docotr's Best and was not happy with the results of either. I don't remember what happened with the Doctor's Best.  Constipation, I think.  She was also constipated when I tried to give her bacteriophages.

For Mazy cat I just prefer not to rock the boat too much.  Quality of life is what matters, not quantity.  When she begins to fail, when whatever it is that makes her puke so regularly makes her suffer, I will let her go.  Right now, she is as happy and as active as a cat half her age.  Her coat is incredible.

Sorry to sound so crabby and ungrateful.  I'm not ungrateful;.  I'm just carrying a load of stress and anxiety that is intolerable. I often wonder what my life would be like if I wasn't chronically sleep deprived. What I would be like. I haven't slept in a thousand years.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on January 09, 2018, 04:47:20 PM
Quote
Proviable DC is probiotic.

I'm an idiot.  Ignore me.   Silly7
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 09, 2018, 05:01:01 PM
I'm an idiot.  Ignore me.   Silly7

Nah, you're not.  You're all wonderful and helpful and supportive.
But to look at this clearly glowing with health cat and want to keep trying new stuff or putting her through more diagnostics doesn't sit well with me
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 09, 2018, 05:59:13 PM
If there's any chance at all that she has pancreatic insufficiency, she needs extra enzymes at every meal. I'm suspecting that because  the Denosyl didn't digest. I read somewhere that PI is common in animals that had been fed an improper diet in the past. Their pancreas just gets worn out working so hard to digest it.

Hypothetically speaking, a cat that's fed kibble probably would have a pancreas that's more "tired" than a cat that's always been wet-fed.  Personally, I think adding enzymes to of her meals is a good idea.  Since she can tolerate the enzymes she's already getting, I would think that she could handle them in additional meals.  Even just a test -- add them to 1 additional meal for a few days and see how it goes.  But . . . you need to do what you think is best, and with what you can handle.

Quote
Sorry to sound so crabby and ungrateful.  I'm not ungrateful;.  I'm just carrying a load of stress and anxiety that is intolerable. I often wonder what my life would be like if I wasn't chronically sleep deprived. What I would be like. I haven't slept in a thousand years.

 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on January 09, 2018, 06:17:38 PM
I didn't think you sounded crabby... if we are voting.  :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 09, 2018, 08:03:00 PM
Thanks you guys.  HeadButt I do understand the causes and the likelihood Mazy cat might have some issues this way, given her dietary history.

Like I said, I have tried her on digestive enzymes other than the amount she gets from EZc, before.  She was on the Prozyme for quite a few months a number of years ago.  Her fur got nice but she became so lethargic while she was on it, barely moved, never wanted to play at all.

The Doctor's Best caused constipation. I do know how to introduce something new, and always go excruciatingly slow with Mazy cat.  And I do think I know her well enough to know pretty quickly if something is going to be all right for her or not.  I won't keep giving her something because it might help her, if it causes other side effects that affect her health and quality of life. The round marble poops and straining...it's not something you want top see a cat go through if it can be avoided and she's now been through it a few times when I've tried to change something.

Mazy cat has normal raw fed poops. A thin shell with fur inside. There is no indication that she has malabsorption issues.  Other than this odd single event thing with the Denosyl.  I might write to Nutramax and see if they have an opinion. I am prepared to be met with "we can't give medical advice ask your vet" but it might be worth a try.

 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 11, 2018, 02:11:04 PM
Following her usual pattern when she goes 10 days or more between vomits, (skip a day, then puke again for two or even three more days) Mazy cat brought up her third breakfast meal this morning.  There was no denosyl in it.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 11, 2018, 09:53:17 PM
Following her usual pattern when she goes 10 days or more between vomits, (skip a day, then puke again for two or even three more days) Mazy cat brought up her third breakfast meal this morning.  There was no denosyl in it.

There's good news (about the denosyl not being in her breakfast)!   thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 12, 2018, 05:01:46 AM
1st meal came up this morning.  No denosyl.  I feel so bad for her though.  I much prefer it when she goes 7 days between vomits, then she doesn't keep puking for days after.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 14, 2018, 09:21:54 AM
Just to keep things straight for myself and anyone else interested:

When Mazy cat goes 10 days or more between meal vomits she continues to vomit for several more days afterward, and usually has at least one very ill day. If she pukes every 7 days, it's just a one time event and she moves on as if nothing happened.

This last time was typical.  She went 10 days with no food vomiting then on the 11th day vomited her entire breakfast so far (3 meals).  I had to be very careful with her diet the rest of that day, small portions, lots of SEB, and bone broth, but no more apparent illness.

The day after that she was fine.

The 2nd day after, she puked her first breakfast, which contained her denosyl pill from lunch the day before. (very strange that pill never went through her system)  She was very ill all day, only wanting tiny amounts and bone broth and plain meat, no EZc added.

The 3rd day she puked her breakfast again, first meal,  and it was a 'violent' hurl, and foul.  No fur in it.

Yesterday, 4th day, after her 3rd breakfast meal, 15 minutes had passed and I thought we were safe, she suddenly started doing the hyuck hyuck.  She jumped down off her perch and ran downstairs to the cardboard, had a few more spasms and stopped. Nothing came up.  She sniffed around, seemed surprised there was no puke, then went about her business.

Today, day 5 after the 10 day span was broken,  so far she seems to be finally over it.

I should mention that during all this, she was pooping normally, but not with much fur in it, including today's poop.  So there is still a wad of fur to be moved out.

All this is typical of when she goes 10 days or more between episodes. 1st day Puke, 2nd day skip a day, 3rd day puke again and feel sick, 4th day puke again, normal after, and then 5th day  an almost puke.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 07, 2018, 04:13:41 PM
So.  Mazy cat's pattern is, if she goes 10 or more days without vomiting, she will continue to vomit daily, and sometimes appear quite ill, for up to 5 days afterward.

7 days is her usually number, and she does not have that extended trouble when it's only 7.  This time she went 9 and she did not have that extended trouble.

I can't remember if I mentioned here that I have finally found a canned food she can eat and keep down, for emergency purposes. It's Castor & Pollux Organix line, and I'm using the chicken, which is USDA Certified Organic, and even more important non-GMO project Verified.  I bought the 3 oz cans.  I am using one can a week.  They get half an ounce each on Sunday, and half an ounce each on Wednesday.

I keep reminding myself to feed it as is, room temperature, stop warming it up for them, because if I DO have to use it as their food if the power goes out, it wil not be warmed up and I want them to be used to it that way.

So far I have not remembered until AFTER adding the warm water.  Doh1

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 07, 2018, 10:11:41 PM
I keep reminding myself to feed it as is, room temperature, stop warming it up for them, because if I DO have to use it as their food if the power goes out, it wil not be warmed up and I want them to be used to it that way.

So far I have not remembered until AFTER adding the warm water.  Doh1

What I used to do, when Pookie was still here, and I knew a storm was coming that had potential to cause power outages, was to boil water and put it in a couple of thermoses.  That way I had hot water (or even warm) for at least a day, depending on how good the thermos was.  I'm embarrassed to say, I never thought to warm his food that way.  Instead, I warmed his food, a bit at a time, in a spoon over a tea light.   :-[  But I like your way better!   :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 16, 2018, 08:59:10 AM
Thanks Pookie, seem to have missed your post before. Well using a candle to warm the food never occurred to me, that would work in a pinch for sure! Except I don't have any candles or tea lights here.  Guess I should get some.

Mazy cat had her check up and blood taken for the re-test after being on the denosyl for the last 6 weeks. 

I have been meaning to update this thread but was feeling so low about it that I didn't.

You remember the trouble I had when I went to the new formula of the Rad Cat turkey.  Well Now we're having the same trouble with the new formula chicken.  I thought I had one more of the old formula and all this month was going to be the transition month.  However much to my dismay, I was wrong and all I had left was new formula, with no time to transition.

So (DUMB IDIOT) for some reason I reasoned to myself well she's already transitioned to the turkey so it should be fine, so just start her on the new chicken.

What on earth made me think that?  How can I be so stupid, seriously?

Well of course it wasn't all right and while she seemed okay with it the first day, by the second day she was not and she puked three days in a row, the third day being she brought up everything she ate, so I finally stopped feeding her anything.

I've taken her off the chicken, and she's eating just the Rad Cat turkey (in her RC portions) while I back up, cut up the chicken into tinier pieces, and start to re introduce it a tenth of an ounce at a time.

I really don't know what I was thinking.  I transition her to everything when it's a new batch.  All meats, EZc, even her supplements, when I am getting low, if the next bottle is a new batch number, I transition slowly.

Idiot.

Anyway she survived her check up and blood work and having her anal glands expressed.  I finally remembered to ask for the GI panel.  Vet said they were working on going direct to Texas tech for the GI panels which would make it less expensive than going through Antech first but I didn't want to wait for them to set that up. She didn't know when it would be in place.  The GI panel is dreadfully expensive, but I don't care.  So she had her regular blood work and the GI panel.

Vet wanted to look in her mouth but I said no.  I said if you want to give her a whiff of gas, and look, that is fine with me, but I am not putting her through that awake.  You know she won't let you and it just gets her all worked up.

You may remember, last time I made them stop trying, too.  When they took her back for the bloods that time she was gone a very long time and I suspected they were trying again to look in her moth, which suspicion was confirmed when the tech reported Mazy cat bit her through the gauntlet. (served you right, is what I thought to myself)

This time she was gone only a few minutes, and right back to me, all settled in her carrier.

We talked again about the coughing, and vet said again to just keep monitoring and if it starts to get excessive, we'll do an x ray of her lungs. She asked if it was during exercise and I said no, Mazy cat plays quite hard every night and never coughs or gets out of breath when playing.  It's usually when she is at rest, or asleep, when she coughs.

Now she's had a tiny bit of breakfast (it will take me a long time to feed her today) and is washing the morning stress and smells off on the down throw with the heating pad on under it.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on February 16, 2018, 09:27:15 AM
Quote
We talked again about the coughing

I must have missed that there was coughing.  How long has it been going on?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 16, 2018, 09:40:24 AM
I must have missed that there was coughing.  How long has it been going on?

  Years. But up until the last couple of years it was so infrequent I always forgot to mention it at the vet. The last two years or so it's happening on average twice a week. That I know of.  Of course I can't know if she coughs when I am not here.

Because it happens when she's at rest, and because she snores quite a bit,  vet wonders if it's being caused by some post nasal drip, perhaps. Her lungs and heart sound clear and normal
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on February 16, 2018, 10:05:56 AM
Have you considered an x-ray or ultra sound?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on February 16, 2018, 12:58:42 PM
Thanks Pookie, seem to have missed your post before. Well using a candle to warm the food never occurred to me, that would work in a pinch for sure! Except I don't have any candles or tea lights here.  Guess I should get some.



Fondue it?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UM2X76

with

https://www.amazon.com/Swissmar-F65400-Fire-Refill-33-8-Ounce/dp/B0081FK4FW/ref=pd_bxgy_79_2
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 17, 2018, 09:17:19 AM
Have you considered an x-ray or ultra sound?

For what?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on February 18, 2018, 11:18:30 PM
For what?

Heart?  Lungs?  Nighttime coughing can be a not so good thing.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 19, 2018, 06:51:26 AM
Heart?  Lungs?  Nighttime coughing can be a not so good thing.

Thanks for explaining but can you please elaborate on what you mean?  Hug1

Anyway like I said, the vet said to monitor and if it gets worse we would start with an x ray. I still feel that I don't intend to put Mazy cat through a lot. She will have to be anesthetized, or at the least, sedated, for anything.   

Maybe I will change my mind when the time comes. 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 19, 2018, 07:59:02 AM
We're on day 3 with the slow transition to the new formula Rad Cat chicken.  She's getting a tenth of an ounce a day of it, .05 oz added to a morning meal (I change up which serving per day) and half added to her supper pre meal.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on February 19, 2018, 10:24:38 AM
Thanks for explaining but can you please elaborate on what you mean?  Hug1


Coughing for two years, especially when rested...worse case scenario... heart or lung disease.  It is more common in dog, but...
The heart and lungs can sound good, but still have a serious problem. 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 19, 2018, 10:43:25 AM
Coughing for two years, especially when rested...worse case scenario... heart or lung disease.  It is more common in dog, but...
The heart and lungs can sound good, but still have a serious problem. 


Okay thank you. But if she has lung or heart disease, I am not going to do anything different for her.  I am not putting her through a lot of invasive diagnostics or trips to specialists, and that is the only way to diagnose and treat these things?

When you say "coughing for two years" makes it sound like an acute problem. It isn't.  I hear her cough maybe twice a week.  Some weeks not at all.  She may be coughing when I am not home but there are many times, especially lately because of (my own) illness, that I am home all day and night, and there is no sign of coughing.

Anyway I do appreciate your input and making me aware of these issues, thank you. But this is Mazy cat, and she cannot tolerate a lot of vet trips and sitting in stainless steel cages. I won't do it to her.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on February 19, 2018, 10:57:26 AM
It is the occasional cough, for two years, that got me wound up.  I don't mean to come off as gloom and doom...
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 19, 2018, 11:02:05 AM
I know.  I understand, especially after what you've just been through with your Lacy dog. Cats cough. People cough.  It could be anything or nothing.  For Mazy cat, at least not now when her quality of life is already what I would consider superior,  I'm not willing to put her through a lot of stuff to find out.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 22, 2018, 05:50:53 AM
Mazy cat is on day 8 between vomit episodes.  It's worth remarking on because she is also in the middle of the transition to the new Rad Cat formula.  It's going well and she should be fully transitioned by this weekend.

Then back to the status quo.

 I feel like the denosyl may be causing her some problems.  Nothing serious but she's a bit less active now, after being on it 9 weeks.  She's not playing her Solitaire Games anymore, for instance.  And while she is still playing nightly, she is not as active about it.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 31, 2018, 09:01:32 AM
I see it's been a long time since I have updated Mazy cat's thread.  Her vomiting cycles continue as usual. Sometimes she goes more than a week between vomits. When she goes more than 7 or 8 days, after she does finally puke up a meal, with or without fur, she generally will skip a day then puke two more days in a row.  Other weeks it seems she has a lot more trouble and pukes every 3 or 4 days.

These "pukes" would be considered regurgitation, because it IS meals she is vomiting, except for one thing.  When it comes up, it comes up with muscle contraction and force.  That is not the definition of regurgitation, and that is why I have stopped using that term.

Anyway.  Her blood work results from February 16 were not great.  Everything fine except her ALT (liver values) still rising.  Vet was all about x rays and ultrasounds at the specialist.  I said, again, I am not doing that with Mazy cat. I said I would agree to x rays there at the clinic, IF she would agree to do it under sedation.  I said then you can take your time, get good pictures, and look into her mouth as well. (Mazy cat has not had a mouth exam since her dental almost 2 years ago)

Vet does not want to sedate/anesthetize for x rays, presumably because, if further diagnostics are needed she will need to be anesthetized for that. I said again, I am not going to do that with Mazy cat.

Anyway that was a month ago we had that discussion and I have done nothing.  Mazy cat takes her denosyl every day, continues to enjoy her excellent quality of life.  Her arthtitis is under control, she runas and plays and sleeps and eats and poops and pees.  her coat is incredible, here eyes are bright and clear, you'd never know there is anything wrong with her at all.

That is what I want for Mazy cat.

Further into the discussion with vet, I did express my feelings about how hard I worked on and how long I kept Ootay alive.  More and more over the years I've found myself wondering if I did right by her.  I THINK I did, because in the end, like I asked her to, she told me when she'd had enough, and I listened.  Both for the regular vet trips, and the end.

 I did it, trying to keep Ootay going, mostly for Tolly, because I didn't feel he could spare her. She was always able to handle all the vet trips and stuff, the fluids and the medications. Then one day when I was putting her into the carrier she cried.  She'd never done that before so when we got to the vet I said this is the last time I'm bringing her in for a 3 month check.  She's said she's done and I will listen to her.

6 months after that she had her 3rd and last stroke, she told me she was ready and I brought her in for the final time.

But Mazy cat cannot handle all that stuff. She's okay with that one pill a day. But I'm not dragging her back to the vet every three months, and I'm not putting her in the carrier and taking her for a 2 hour drive in order to be terrorized in a strange place  with strange vets and invasive procedures.

I'd like to have the x rays, and even the ultrasound from my vet (they don't have a great machine, but it's something) and her mouth exam, all under anesthesia to reduce Mazy cat's stress.  I know anesthesia is a risk, but she won't be under long, and I feel it is best for her.

I may just wait until her 6 month check up, re-do the blood work and try again to convince her to do x rays, and mouth exam under sedation.

Some cats can handle a lot of stuff.  Ootay could, Tolly could. Jennie probably could, if she has to.  Not sure about Queen Eva yet.  But I'm not doing it to Mazy cat.  Even if she did seem to "get used to it" (which I doubt) I don't see why she should have to.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on March 31, 2018, 01:38:09 PM
Remember.... We do the best we can. 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 31, 2018, 05:13:45 PM
Remember.... We do the best we can. 

Thank you Lola dear friend  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 but that's not really the issue with Mazy cat.  I am doing my best for her and, going forward could do other things, if I felt it was in HER best interests.  This isn't about what I can or cannot do for her, because I could do other tings, if I wanted. This is about what I am willing to put her through, not what I can do, if that makes any sense to you.  It does, to me.  HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 08, 2018, 08:44:38 AM
Aside from Mazy cat's normal patterns of vomiting, I do have good news to report.  She is down to 10 meals a day.

What this means is, her supper to bedtime meals have been reduced from four meals to three.  Her quantity per meal has been increased from 0.5 oz to 0.7 oz. for two meals and 0.6 for one. (This includes water and bone broth added).

Mostly what it means is it is a tiny bit easier on me. Feeding her still covers the same time span (6:30-9:30), but I can rest longer in between.

Of course it also means Mazy cat has had some healing, because this is the first time ever she has been able to handle that much food and liquid all at once.

Her morning meals remain at 0.45 per serving - 4 meals spaced 45 minutes apart. (5:15-7:30)  Her lunch is still .03 and her supper pre-meal is still 0.2 and 0.2 15 minutes apart.

The new supper meal quantities have been completely in effect for almost 2 weeks now. I wanted to be sure, before I announced it. :)

PS This a a very big deal.  When we firt started this journey 6 years ago Mazy cat was getting 22 meals a day.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 08, 2018, 05:51:46 PM
PAWSOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy multistars multistars multistars
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 28, 2018, 07:54:04 AM
Thanks Pookie.  I am really thrilled with the drop of that meal in the evening.  You woulnd't believe how much easier it makes things, just eliminating that one serving.

Mazy cat had one of her 10 day spans with no vomit ending this morning.  Every time she goes this long, (or longer) I dread the fall out.  Her normal pattern is to skip a day, then puke 2 or 3 days in a row, after going 10 days or more.

I always hope it will be different.  Maybe this time.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on April 28, 2018, 10:34:10 AM
 fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 01, 2018, 05:38:18 AM
Never static with Mazy cat.  So after her almost 11 day span, she skipped a day and then yesterday, following her usual pattern, is when I would have expected the next vomit.  I had to work late though so she wasn't fed her usual time.  She DID vomit, but before she was fed, so no food came up, just a lot of liquid,  fur and her denosyl that she had 3 hours previously.  This only confirms my belief that these vomits are caused by motility problems (built up fur) and when the fur builds up that much, the denosyl gets caught in it and is not absorbed.

I waited a while, and gave her her usual meals, with SEB in the first one.

She also had another poop (had pooped in the morning) after her pre-meals that was mostly fur.

So, still following the same pattern, but was able to keep her meals down, due to me working late.

This revelation may or may not help going forward. :)

(IF she is still following her normal pattern though I can expect vomiting today and tomorrow as well)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: ThreeStep on May 01, 2018, 07:03:16 AM
All I can do is admire your patience and dedication.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on May 01, 2018, 11:23:40 AM
All I can do is admire your patience and dedication.

What she said.   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 01, 2018, 01:05:21 PM
Thanks you guys, but I don't know that I am so special.  Any of you would do the same. It's what we do.  grouphug grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: ThreeStep on May 01, 2018, 01:30:13 PM
Macy Cat has a good home. That is for sure.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 02, 2018, 06:28:54 AM
Never static with Mazy cat.  So after her almost 11 day span, she skipped a day and then yesterday, following her usual pattern, is when I would have expected the next vomit.  I had to work late though so she wasn't fed her usual time.  She DID vomit, but before she was fed, so no food came up, just a lot of liquid,  fur and her denosyl that she had 3 hours previously.  This only confirms my belief that these vomits are caused by motility problems (built up fur) and when the fur builds up that much, the denosyl gets caught in it and is not absorbed.

I waited a while, and gave her her usual meals, with SEB in the first one.

She also had another poop (had pooped in the morning) after her pre-meals that was mostly fur.

So, still following the same pattern, but was able to keep her meals down, due to me working late.

This revelation may or may not help going forward. :)

(IF she is still following her normal pattern though I can expect vomiting today and tomorrow as well)

Nothing yesterday, but just brought up her entire breakfast.  Including what she ate 2 1/2 hours ago. With wads of fur.  and foul odor.  Normal pattern for her.  Nothing's changed, except she skipped an extra day, which just made it worse today.

So on we go.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 03, 2018, 05:37:38 AM
This morning's breakfast came up too. Same old same old. Sometimes I wonder how I can cope any more.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 04, 2018, 05:03:44 AM
And again.  This should be the last day of it, then hopefully back to "normal" (every 7 days or so)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on May 05, 2018, 02:57:13 AM
Hoping for the best possible!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: ThreeStep on May 05, 2018, 06:27:56 AM
How is your furry doing this morning after the storm?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 06, 2018, 10:01:19 AM
She's all done for the time being, thankfully.  It's always like this when she goes 10 or more days between vomiting.  I know it sounds pitiful to say, but I much prefer her to vomit every 7 days, because of what the longer spans do to her.

Thank you for asking!  Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 16, 2018, 07:23:26 PM
I like to record unusual events here because it helps me keep track.  This morning BEFORE breakfast Mazy cat brought up an enormous amount of hairballs.  She almost never brings up hair alone, she never has, even in her very young before IBD days.  Always she only pukes up food, either with or without fur. 

But this was a ton of fur.  Then she proceeded to have a poop that was also pure fur.

Today is only day five in her between vomits span, so I am glad she was able to bring up those huge wads.

By the way Jennie and Queen Eva are also struggling with hairballs this spring.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 21, 2018, 06:01:17 AM
In spite of bringing up all that fur, and pooping it out, Mazy cat had a bad week last week and lost 2 ounces.

Earlier in the week she'd shown a disinclination to eat her final breakfast serving for three days in a row, and since she was maintaining her weight so well, I didn't worry.  Then she had two days in a row of vomiting, and one of those days resulted in inappetence, no food the remainder of the night.  So she lost 2 ounces.

i know it's not a lot, but it still worries. She seems okay now.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 30, 2018, 08:23:46 AM
By contrast of that last post, Mazy cat has now gone 15 days without puking, and gained (after going back to her usual weight) another ounce and a half haha.

Well you know, while these long spans are wonderful from one perspective, the problem is, once she does puke, she has that pattern of continuing to puke daily for several more days.

In the first 2 weeks of June she vomited 5 times and I was starting to get really worried, and then after the 15th she just...stopped and hasn't bright up a meal since.

It is very nice for her of course, but I don't have any illusions about it being anything but a phase.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on June 30, 2018, 09:50:54 AM
Don't jinx it!   Silly7
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 30, 2018, 06:22:39 PM
She brought up her supper meal. She very rarely pukes this particular meal, and her denosyl tablet, which she had hours ago, was still intact in the puke, along with a wad of fur, so it was brewing, and would have happened whether I mentioned it this morning or not. :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: ThreeStep on July 01, 2018, 08:43:33 AM
How is she doing today?

How did you and Mazy cat meet if I may ask?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 01, 2018, 09:08:12 AM
She brought up her second breakfast. A number of days following with vomiting is ...."normal" for her after going 10 or more days between vomiting episodes. If she stays around once every 7 days...it stays around 7 days.

 But really there is no pattern other than "every 7-10 days, sometimes more often, sometimes less often". It has taken me many years to (mostly) come to terms with the realization that this is how it is always going to be for her. She's 14 now and raw fed for 6 years. 

Here is Mazy cat's story, thanks for asking!  Hug1  (note the original thread was started in 2013, I just update it every year now)

http://parenting-furkids.com/index.php?topic=1762.0
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 08, 2018, 07:56:45 AM
So..Mazy cat did change up her pattern a little bit. After 15 days of not vomiting I expected a week of on and off vomiting, but she did not have that.  She puked two more days in a row, and that is all, and is now in her usual span of..well it's been 6 days.

She's gained a little weight..less active in the heat I think.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 09, 2018, 05:49:29 PM
Me and my big mouth. Silly7

  Vomited last night and again this morning.  No fur, in either batch, so it's lodged in there, hope it moves through tonight. 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 09, 2018, 10:10:58 PM
Me and my big mouth. Silly7

  Vomited last night and again this morning.  No fur, in either batch, so it's lodged in there, hope it moves through tonight. 

That'll learn ya!   Silly7

Seriously, though, I'm sorry to hear Mazy's having a rough patch.  GoodVibes  Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on July 09, 2018, 11:43:26 PM
:(
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 10, 2018, 05:00:33 AM
She brought up a huge wad of fur this morning before breakfast. With a lot of foul smelling liquid.

It also had her denosyl from yesterday lunch.  I'm going to start her on some milk thistle powder and possibly sam-e powder instead, if they aren't too awful tasting (powder from capsules mixed in food)  The denosyl tablet is just not effective because it keeps getting caught up in the fur in her gut.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on July 10, 2018, 11:14:30 AM

It also had her denosyl from yesterday lunch.  I'm going to start her on some milk thistle powder and possibly sam-e powder instead, if they aren't too awful tasting (powder from capsules mixed in food)  The denosyl tablet is just not effective because it keeps getting caught up in the fur in her gut.

Can you not put it in something then take a hammer to it to turn it into powder?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 10, 2018, 01:09:26 PM
Can you not put it in something then take a hammer to it to turn it into powder?

Thanks Dee.  The tablet is supposed to pass into the intestinal tract, intact, for maximum absorption. But because she's always got a wad of fur in her stomach, it gets caught and doesn't make it out.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: DeeDee on July 10, 2018, 01:21:36 PM
Thanks Dee.  The tablet is supposed to pass into the intestinal tract, intact, for maximum absorption. But because she's always got a wad of fur in her stomach, it gets caught and doesn't make it out.



Well that sucks.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on July 10, 2018, 06:12:29 PM
 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on August 25, 2018, 02:24:32 PM
Mazy cat is on one of her extended spans of no vomiting.  Today is day 16. As you may remember, whenever she goes this long I kind of get a build up of dread because once she finally does vomit, she usually will vomit for at least 4 days in a row, after skipping one day.

But there is always hope that this time will be different.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on August 27, 2018, 05:10:58 AM
Mazy cat is on day 18.  This morning after her pee and poop as I was getting ready to fix her breakfast I saw her slip back down the stairs.  Since she'd pooped already I got worried about what was up...instantly my mind goes to what Jennie's just been through you know?  I waited a minute or two then followed her down.  She'd brought up a two great big wads of fur!

bananamiddlechild

I am celebrating because normally those wads would have simply sat in there and pushed her breakfast out.  Instead she brought them up before eating. This is very rare for Mazy cat and always has been. So on we go.

I am starting to wonder if the increased s.boulardii is helping her, if it is making that much of a difference.  I've had her on 1/4 capsule twice a day (half capsule total a day) for a long time. That's her maintenance dose.  I increased it to half a capsule twice a day (whole capsule total for the day) during Jennie's illness. I'm going to keep on with that and see how she does.

If it makes that much difference, perhaps that's the silver lining of Jennie's illness.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on August 30, 2018, 06:23:06 PM
Mazy cat went 20 days.  On the 21st day she brought up her 1st breakfast meal. It had a wad of fur in it too. That was yesterday.  Now I wait to see if her usual pattern follows after an extended span of not vomiting, which is: skip a day (today, so far), then vomit 3 or 4 days in a row.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on August 31, 2018, 02:34:38 PM
Is 20 days the longest she has ever gone?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on August 31, 2018, 03:38:16 PM
Is 20 days the longest she has ever gone?

21 days is her longest.  July 2015, the week my mother died.  That's when I discovered she had healed enough to have the beneficial fasting periods between meals.  I was gone 12 hour days for almost a week, and she never puked once during that week and for two more weeks after.  One other time she went 20 days, that was two years ago when she was having that dental/mouth problem that she couldn't eat and I was hand feeding her canned gruel and bone broth. Usually her long spans are 10-14 days.  She's had a few 18 days over the years.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 01, 2018, 08:06:34 PM
She's varying her usual pattern.  Skipped two days instead of one before puking again. Now..if she follows pattern she will vomit for the next three days in a row, plus this morning.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 03, 2018, 09:10:01 AM
Skipped another day (yesterday)! Hmmm........
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on September 03, 2018, 06:44:15 PM
I can't decide to be happy for her or nervous...
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 04, 2018, 06:21:08 AM
Skipped again.  You can be happy for us, this is new and welcome.  HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 04, 2018, 07:17:10 PM
Brought her first supper pre-meal up with a huge wad of fur and her denosyl from lunch time.  I'm glad she got that fur up it would have blocked things pretty badly if it had tried to make it's way out the other way.  The denosyl caught up in it is typical of that, as I mentioned before.

Still this has been way better than other times when she went that long. Way better.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 09, 2018, 07:52:48 AM
 Mazy cat never did have that 3-4 days in a row spell of vomiting after her long span!  I attribute it to the increase in her s.boulardii. I doubled her dose to a full capsule a day (1/2 am 1/2 pm) during Jennie's campylobacter treatment to help her fight off any potential contagion.  That was when she had that long 20 day spell, so I've kept her on that level.

She vomited a meal 2 days after, then 3 days after that, then 4 days after that (yesterday). Yesterday's had that foul smell, so I know something is blocking.

**

Well darn, as I was writing that she was down stairs playing her Solitaire Singing Game (right after eating her 2n breakfast serving, which is unusual) and then I heard the unmistakable sound.

I wasn't surprised really as she was acting over eager for her 2nd meal and that often means she has something she needs to bring up.  I could have waited a bit longer to feed her, but I really don't think the outcome would be any different.  It was foul again, so she's got a wad of fur working it's way out the other way and until it gets out, she's going to have trouble.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 12, 2018, 08:22:26 AM
Mazy cat had her check up and blood work last month.  Her liver values (ALT) remain steady at 129 which is elevated, though not outrageously so.  100 is high nomral.  It may be the denosyl is keeping it from going higher but vet wanted to put her on another course of baytril, and recheck.

I agreed to the baytril and again brought up the issue of x ray and mouth exam under anesthesia and she has agreed to it.  Mazy cat will be gassed down for a very short time, the x rays will be done, the mouth exam will be done, an in house blood draw to check the liver, and they can do her anal glands again too, since those always need doing.

She won't be out more than 5 minutes, but it will ease my mind to have her mouth looked at.

When I was looking for information about gabapentin when Jennie was put on it I discovered that this drug is being used to sedate cats who can't be examined properly during vet visits (like Mazy cat).  I am trying to decide if this would be a better way to go in future, rather than full anesthesia, for Mazy cat needing her mouth checked and x rays.

 I am going to talk to the vet about it.  For some reason I feel like anesthesia is the lesser of the two "evils" here, but I don't know why. I think it's because, under anesthesia she doesn't know anything at all.  I worry being drugged up will just make her more anxious.

I know anesthesia is hard on their kidneys, but a few minutes of Sevo really shouldn't cause any problems.  I'm really torn.  The dose of gabapentin must be pretty high, and from what I read you have to start it well before the appointment for it to be really effective.  I just don't like the idea of drugging her up like that.

 Jennie is having no sedative effect on her dose of 50 mg 3 times a day, so the dose has to be a lot higher than that. Any opinions?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 12, 2018, 07:51:33 PM
Quote
I am going to talk to the vet about it.  For some reason I feel like anesthesia is the lesser of the two "evils" here, but I don't know why. I think it's because, under anesthesia she doesn't know anything at all.  I worry being drugged up will just make her more anxious.

Good point!

Unfortunately, I don't really have any advice on this, other than to say "go with your gut."  If your gut is telling you it's better to go with anesthesia than gabapentin, then you should listen to your gut, IMO.

I think one of my concerns (and in my VERY brief search, I didn't find the answer) is:  how long has gabapentin been used as a sedative in cats for this purpose?  My guess would be that it's use this way is much more recent, and if that's the case, perhaps it's better to go with something that vets have been using on cats for a long time (anesthesia), where they know the risks and how to handle them, than to use something that's fairly new and lesser-known.  Just my  2cents.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 21, 2018, 09:09:51 AM
That's a valid concern Pookie.  I know my vet doesn't like to use anesthesia "unnecessarily" but in Mazy cat's case, I see this as necessary.  She's at the vet right now for her x rays and mouth exam under anesthesia. She will also have her anal glands done and ears cleaned out, all blissfully unaware!

 I scheduled an appointment first, and they had everything set up, after a quick exam and a little talk (I forgot to ask about using gabapentin as a sedative) they whisked her away.  No sitting stacked up waiting for her turn, which is why I pay extra for the appointment and do it this way (as opposed to dropping her off - first come first serve style). She'll be put back in her carrier to wake up and recover and they will call me when she's awake and what time I can pick her up.

So glad I went up north for Jennie's meds yesterday instead of today.  Still snowing though.  funny2

11:07 EDIT had the call, I have to go in at 1:15 to talk over results and bring her home.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 21, 2018, 12:29:15 PM
I hope everything went well!   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed GoodVibes  fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 21, 2018, 01:12:34 PM
We're back.  There and back in the middle of a white out snow squall, sheesh!

Mouth is okay, just a little tartar on the upper back molars. x rays show a bone spur in the last vertebrae of her spine. Not abnormal for a cat of 14. 

Heart is normal in the x rays, the one kidney that shows also is normal (the other was hidden by poop, she has a lot of poop! I knew she would she was due to poop last night but didn't.  I tried to encourage her to go this morning but she wouldn't.)

Right lung is showing a little bit of possible asthma, left lung is clear.  This probably explains the occasional cough. Vet not sure I need to do anything yet, unless the coughing gets worse.  We talked about the inhaler but I really think that will be out of my range financially, even if Mazy cat would allow it, which is a big IF.  A low dose of pred...vet talked about side effects but I pointed out that those are long term side effects.  Mazy cat is over 14..so when it comes down to it, if the coughing gets worse, I would turn to oral pred rather than the inhaler.

There is another asthma protocol, recommended in the IBD group, (which of course you know my vet vetoed right away,) but there are other reasons I might not want to try that. It's curcumin and krill oil, but the doses are large and require pilling two pills, twice day, in other words pilling four pills a day! And the capsules are not small. She's already getting one pill a day (denosyl) and takes it well, but...I just can't see doing that to her. She'd have to take a pill with practically every freaking meal.  I'd rather use the low dose of pred.  If it comes to that.

Quality of life has to come first.

Liver looks a bit small (according to vet) but as she knew I would, I vetoed ultrasound to get a better look.  Regardless of the results of an ultrasound I don't intend to put Mazy cat through any surgeries, so I think it's better just to go on as we are.

She was in her carrier while we talked and growled every time the vet spoke.  funny2
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on November 21, 2018, 01:38:18 PM
In my stinky opinion... With her barf history and being 14, I think the visit (and results) went rather well!  Not that you asked, but I would also go with leaving things alone for now.   2cents
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 21, 2018, 01:50:42 PM
In my stinky opinion... With her barf history and being 14, I think the visit (and results) went rather well!  Not that you asked, but I would also go with leaving things alone for now.   2cents

Thank you!  I always appreciate getting opinions, whether they agree with mine or not.  Even if I sound ungrateful or grouchy about it sometimes (and I know I do) feedback is always helpful. Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 21, 2018, 02:13:02 PM
Glad you both made it back home safely, and things went well.  Is Mazy cat speaking to you yet?   Silly7
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 21, 2018, 03:20:39 PM
Glad you both made it back home safely, and things went well.  Is Mazy cat speaking to you yet?   Silly7

 funny2

Actually she doesn't seem to hold a grudge when I take her to the vet.  I think she's just so grateful to be home. She's just annoyed with me now because I want her to poop, and for some unknown reason she is refusing to do it.  Her colon is loaded with poop (as the x rays showed lol), it's been 2 1/2 days since she's gone. Don't know what's she's waiting for.  Well she was probably waiting for a litter box with deeper litter, but she has that now, I did them while she was at the vet, but she still isn't going.  She had two small meals after coming home but I don't want to feed her any more until she goes, because it is likely to come right back up.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 27, 2018, 04:02:27 PM
Another tiny step for Mazy cat, she's down to 8 servings a day! (from 10, from 11, from 13,  from 17, from 22)

Her supper pre-meal which has always been two portions 15 minutes apart have now been combined to one portion.  It's been a week and she is handling it well, but is still waiting for that 2nd serving. Habits are difficult to change, but eventually she'll forget about it hopefully.  Even one less meal is so much better (less work) for me.

Here's her video. here is Mazy cat, approaching 15 years old in a few months playing one of her Games.  I edited out the slower and waiting parts, and you must also keep in mind that she had already played a Thundering Around the House Chase me Chase You game with Queen Eva before playing this.  You'll also see Queen Eva running back and forth and might wonder why she doesn't interfere. 

Queen Eva doesn't interfere because she's already had her one on one Game with me and knows she will have another after Mazy cat and Jennie have theirs. She's learned to wait her turn, just like all my cats always have done.

Sorry it's so long (4 minutes) but I couldn't bear to cut out any of the good parts.

https://youtu.be/Vl02XsHBxmE
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 27, 2018, 10:18:14 PM
She's quite the goalie!   :)  And getting down to 8 servings a day is HUGE!  Congratulations!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on December 31, 2018, 06:40:13 PM
Mazy is cute... as always.  I wish more people, with older cats, would watch this video.  Older cats CAN continue to be alert and active.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 01, 2019, 08:07:11 AM
She's quite the goalie!   :)  And getting down to 8 servings a day is HUGE!  Congratulations!   DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy


Maybe this will give other people hope. Mazy cat is almost 15 and her progress to health has been going on for almost 7 years. No matter how slow, progress can and does continue. I should add that her vomiting cycle never really changes, it's still every 7-10 days with slight variations, sometimes up to 21 days between, sometimes every 2-3 days, which is why I celebrate the other triumphs like one less meal serving in the day. I also of course wanted to show how active a 15 year old cat can be!

Oh and one more thing..it may not seem like one serving less would make that much difference, but the difference for ME is huge as well, with consolidating that pre-meal. It cuts down a lot on my evening work load, gives me time to relax and rest, and fewer dishes to wash. She is still  waiting for that second serving though. I distract her with a Game.


Mazy is cute... as always.  I wish more people, with older cats, would watch this video.  Older cats CAN continue to be alert and active.

I know, it always makes me sad that people stop playing with their cats after they lose that kitten gogogogo. So many don't want to take the time to learn what the adult cat likes.  If it isn't effortless they can't be bothered.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 15, 2019, 05:22:14 AM
Mazy cat has started to leave half her bedtime meal and I wonder if for some reason she is objecting to the yolk, so as of today I am splitting the yolk into two meals. 1st morning meal and bedtime meal.

She gets 1/4 of a boiled egg yolk daily for choline (increases motility).  That's about 0.14 oz of yolk. I'm trying .07 am and pm now.

Queen Eva gets the FoodFurLife yolk, but I want to keep Mazy cat on organic non GMO as much as possible..

 Of course she has FoodFurLife EZcomplete (which contains yolk) and I am assuming the yolk in the EZc is from the same source as the dried yolk powder they sell but....I just want her to stay on the organic yolk.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 15, 2019, 09:41:32 PM
 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 17, 2019, 04:36:49 PM
Splitting the egg yolk am and pm seems to have solved the problem of Mazy cat not finishing her bed time meal

bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 17, 2019, 05:29:21 PM
multistars multistars multistars
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 20, 2019, 08:22:47 AM
Mazy cat had a rough couple of days she must have been loaded with fur. 

She coudln't keep any meals down, but no fur was coming up with them.  Finally last night she puked up her supper with two wads of fur in it.  Then this morning she had a poop that was almost pure fur.  I hope that's the end of it, she did keep down her first breakfast meal.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 10, 2019, 11:15:55 AM
Mazy cat has some good news to report.  She went 16 days between vomits.

A long span like that, as you may know, generally leads to several more days in a row of vomiting.

However, this one did not! She went on for 6 more days vomit free, until this morning.  bananamiddlechild

As for this morning it's hard to know if this vomit is part of her regular pattern or if it's because I made a change too quick.  This morning I started the transition for her breakfast meals from Rad Cat to EZc.

 In retrospect, I should have only given her ONE small EZc meal, and continued on with Rad Cat for the rest of the morning, instead of two consecutive meals of EZc.

 Mazy cat of course is used to EZc as she eats it for her evening meals every single day. But she's never had it for breakfast before.

So next time, and several more next times,  she will have only one
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on February 10, 2019, 12:58:50 PM
 HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 10, 2019, 10:29:51 PM
Mazy cat has some good news to report.  She went 16 days between vomits.

A long span like that, as you may know, generally leads to several more days in a row of vomiting.

However, this one did not! She went on for 6 more days vomit free, until this morning.  bananamiddlechild

Congratulations!   :)  thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 11, 2019, 05:20:01 AM
Thanks you guys. I am so happy for her when she has long spans like that that don't lead to further vomiting. Especially it being February which is usually a very rough month for her as the spring shedding starts.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 23, 2019, 06:14:03 PM
The EZc meal to replace a Rad Cat meal is going very slowly. Still only once a week.  Last week I did lunch instead of morning. Later she vomited a different, Rad Cat meal, but again, I don't know if it was due to her regular cycle, it being the 7th day again. 

However today she had EZc for lunch and her supper pre meal..AFTER vomiting her pre-breakfast meal.  I figured since she'd had her 7-day vomit FIRST, this will be a truer test.

Either way it's gong to have to happen.  I still have enough Rad Cat to keep this transition slow.  I hate having to rely on ONLY EZc for her and I may try her with Alnutrin too.

As I use bone broth in her evening EZc meals, I am trying poached chicken beast both in her new EZc meals.  She is already maxed out on bone broth so I needed something else. I had the poached breast broth here from Jennie, so I tried it and she likes it.  Thank goodness.  All chicken in this house is organic now.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 24, 2019, 09:36:35 AM
Mazy cat has started to leave half her bedtime meal and I wonder if for some reason she is objecting to the yolk, so as of today I am splitting the yolk into two meals. 1st morning meal and bedtime meal.

She gets 1/4 of a boiled egg yolk daily for choline (increases motility).  That's about 0.14 oz of yolk. I'm trying .07 am and pm now.



It seems that Mazy cat has done herself a huge favor in refusing the entire egg yolk dose at night.

I am seeing some unexpected benefits to the splitting to the yolk between 1st meal and last!  First, I am now giving her a little more.  She is getting 0.1 oz in her morning meal and 0.08 in her bedtime meal, eating it all, so is getting 0.18 yolk a day instead of 0.14 oz a day.  This tiny bit of increase seems to be making a very big difference!

As I mentioned...her last longer span (16 days) did not result in another 2-4 days of vomiting.  Also, she is pooping every 24 hours now instead of every 36, so her transit time and motility are definitely increased.  The stools are perfectly normal raw fed poops chock full of fur, but I think  the increase in frequency means the fur is moving out more quickly, so maybe there is going to be less build up!

Also want to mention something I have worked out about the cyclic nature of the vomiting and why it helps her, even though she rarely brings up any fur.  I don't think I've ever mentioned (or maybe I have) how forceful the contractions are when she vomits.  It is NOT regurgitation, even though it happens right after she eats.  Her body has quite strong and repetitive spasms before the food is ejected.

I think that these contractions not only are bringing up the food but are forcing the fur that is causing it, that is blocking the other exit, the pylorus to start moving through.  THAT'S why it's cyclic, and only happens once, every 7 days or so. (with some variation of course)

In the past, her longer spans led to more vomiting, because the longer span led to a bigger build up of the fur.  But now...with the increased motility/transit time, the longer spans are becoming more frequent, AND, since there appears to be less fur built up, she doesn't need three more days of puking to force the pyloric emptying. The one time is enough.

Hope that makes sense, it's a new thought, but I am sure I am on the right track here.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 24, 2019, 04:03:37 PM
Quote
As I mentioned...her last longer span (16 days) did not result in another 2-4 days of vomiting.  Also, she is pooping every 24 hours now instead of every 36, so her transit time and motility are definitely increased.  The stools are perfectly normal raw fed poops chock full of fur, but I think  the increase in frequency means the fur is moving out more quickly, so maybe there is going to be less build up!

Cool!  I hope you're right about the reduction in fur build-up!   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 14, 2019, 04:09:53 PM
Mazy cat's next check up is March 29.  Not quite 6 months since her last blood work but...she's getting a bit of an old lady look around her face that worries me, and her coughing is a bit more frequent.

The last x rays did show signs of asthma so it may be time to think about treatment. The IBD group recommends altenative treatment - krill oil and curcumin. Which would mean a lot more pilling 4 times extra a day I think, plus I worry about her reactions internally.

 Vet wants me to do albuterol inhaler treatments which I cannot afford and do not think Mazy cat would accept. 

The other alternative is steroids.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on March 14, 2019, 04:36:12 PM
 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 14, 2019, 05:27:39 PM
I made a reference to this in another thread but want to keep everything Mazy cat related here.  Lately I notice she goes into a deep sleep sometimes and if I speak her name she startles upon waking. Not sure what that is all about but I'm keeping an eye on it.  She is almost 15. But after losing Jennie so quickly, I can't rid myself of worry about Mazy cat.

Anyone have any ideas about why she might be startling like that?

I was wondering if she's lost a little hearing, so doesn't hear more subtle sounds of me moving around that normally might wake her before I speak to her?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on March 14, 2019, 06:48:37 PM
Loss of hearing. 
Sensitive.
Stress or anxiety related to the passing of Jennie maybe.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 14, 2019, 06:51:40 PM
Loss of hearing. 
Sensitive.
Stress or anxiety related to the passing of Jennie maybe.

OH! I hadn't thought of that. I do remember saying a while back that Mazy cat didn't seem too affected, but that she is deep and I would be watching her carefully. Thanks for that input.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 14, 2019, 09:09:25 PM
I've done a bit of testing. No sign of any reduction in her hearing ability.  I think you may be right Lola..about Jennie's leaving.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on March 15, 2019, 09:27:58 AM
Good to hear (no pun intended) that Mazy passed your hearing test.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 15, 2019, 09:47:16 AM
Good to hear (no pun intended) that Mazy passed your hearing test.


 funny2 funny2

I'm glad too.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 15, 2019, 01:46:11 PM
Nothing to add, just listening . . .  Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 16, 2019, 03:22:24 PM
Another hearing test...I was on the couch watching my dvd and I stretched my legs and my knee popped a little. It was only a tiny crackle, but apparently sound asleep Mazy cat heard it and woke up and said "prrrt?" in response.  funny2

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on March 16, 2019, 04:38:44 PM
No doubt she can hear!!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 29, 2019, 08:58:53 AM
Quote
Also want to mention something I have worked out about the cyclic nature of the vomiting and why it helps her, even though she rarely brings up any fur.  I don't think I've ever mentioned (or maybe I have) how forceful the contractions are when she vomits.  It is NOT regurgitation, even though it happens right after she eats.  Her body has quite strong and repetitive spasms before the food is ejected.

I think that these contractions not only are bringing up the food but are forcing the fur that is causing it, that is blocking the other exit, the pylorus to start moving through.  THAT'S why it's cyclic, and only happens once, every 7 days or so. (with some variation of course)

In the past, her longer spans led to more vomiting, because the longer span led to a bigger build up of the fur.  But now...with the increased motility/transit time, the longer spans are becoming more frequent, AND, since there appears to be less fur built up, she doesn't need three more days of puking to force the pyloric emptying. The one time is enough.

Hope that makes sense, it's a new thought, but I am sure I am on the right track here.

I am so glad for this thread.  I'd forgotten all about this theory, and I do think it is true.  Mazy cat's last long span was 12 days, and again, she did not continue to puke for 3 or 4 days after. Before the 12 day span she did have shorter spans 4 days, 5 days, 5 days. But that's not unusual especially this time of year.  It's those 10 days or more that I watch for and they ARE coming more foten, and she is not having the former consequences.

Mazy cat had her 6 month check up today.  I agonized and agonized over the rabies vaccination.  she is almost 15.  I KNOW she doesn't need one, and I could do a titer instead.  But my state does not recognize titer as proof of immunity. With Mazy cat's bite history, I just feel I can't risk her being unprotected.  If she were to bite someone at the vet during an examination or treatment (which has happened a few times), without current rabies, they would have to quarantine her, in a cage, for 4 weeks, up to a maximum of 6 months. That's the law, and around here this law is taken very very seriously. So I did the 3 year purevax.  It's the last one she will ever have, she is close to 15 years old and if she makes it another three years..well I'll just have to risk it then. Frankly, I didn't expect, given her problems, I was going to be faced with this, after her last rabies shot, but here she is still going strong, still healthy as anything with the exception of the vomiting and the liver values

But, vet and tech kept marveling over her age, and incredible condition.  Well of course that's the raw diet. But I don't say that any more I just nod and say yeah, she's like a cat half her age at home.

Vet liked my stories about Mazy cat sleeping in Jennie's bed and keeping to only one side.  (It happened again last night)

When the tech went to get a towel to wrap around Mazy cat she brought a big fluffy one with butterflies on it. She said she chose that one because she hoped the butterflies would help Mazy cat feel relaxed and free.

Mazy cat did very well, lots of growling, but didn't try to bite, because they didn't try to look in her mouth.  I'll hear about the blood work next week. Anal glands were very full and thick on the left, the right not quite as bad.

Regarding the asthma, we talked about it in depth and the vet gave me clear directions on watch to watch for, and so far I am not seeing ANY of those signs.  She thinks the coughing may be more of a reflux than asthma related.  So I'm thinking, if I do see an increase, I might increase her SEB instead of worrying about steroids or other anti-inflammatories.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 30, 2019, 07:36:45 PM
I am such an effing idiot.  I agonized over that rabies vaccine for weeks.  Ultimately I felt it was best to give it to her, because of her bite history.  She's been sick ever since.  Well, not yesterday the day of the vaccine. But she hasn't kept a meal down today.

I've stopped feeding her, gave her some rescue remedy and once that kicked in attempted to give her fluids.  That did not go well.  I was pretty sure it wouldn't, but I may try again either later, or tomorrow. I've got to keep her hydrated at least, though the goal was to get about 100 ml into her to help flush her out.

I might have managed about 10 ml. She didn't bite me though which just goes to show how well she's mastered that bite reflex. She went through the bite motion but did not make contact.  She screamed the house down though.

She did not run and hide after, either so is not traumatized.  Maybe I didn't wait long enough for the rescue remedy.

Mazy doesn't drink and refused bone broth plain, so I don't have any other way to hydrate her.

I really need to get a cat restraining bag.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 30, 2019, 10:29:24 PM
 :(

Sending GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes   and  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 to you and Mazy Cat.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: AK49BWL on March 30, 2019, 11:04:01 PM
Same here! I know I haven't kept up with this thread much but I do think of you, Mazy, and Queen Eva! GoodVibes HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 31, 2019, 07:38:46 AM
Thanks you guys.  Today I am feeding her 0.1 oz at a time every half hour.  So far she has had only two servings and has kept them down.  I am furious with myself for allowing the rabies vaccine, but I have to work on letting that go, it's too late now.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 31, 2019, 09:52:12 AM
This last portion I went a whole hour (was busy and missed the half hour mark) then gambled and gave her 0.2 oz all at once.  fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed

She's had a Thundering Around The House Game with Queen Eva a little while ago and I heard her singing down stairs with her little toy just before I fed her so hopefully she is feeling better.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 31, 2019, 01:50:10 PM
I gave her a 3 1/2 hour rest and have just started again with the minuscule amounts.  So far so good.  I just dread to think what it's done to her liver though.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 31, 2019, 06:14:10 PM
Still keeping food down. About to feed her supper.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: AK49BWL on March 31, 2019, 06:48:43 PM
bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 01, 2019, 04:14:54 PM
Thanks Brandon. Mazy cat appears fully recovered now.  Of course the real issue is, what has it done to her liver.  And how much has it set her back with her inflammatory bowel disease. The liver question I won't know until her next blood work in September.  The IBD..well this is a tough time anyway, shedding season, so who knows.

But at least she's herself again.  HeadButt

Edit..well, she still isn't wanting to play. Phooey.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on April 01, 2019, 09:15:36 PM
 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 05, 2019, 05:05:24 PM
Just talked to the vet.  Mazy cat's ALT is down 2 points.  It's still higher than normal at 127 (100 is high normal) but 127 down from 129 is a good thing, means it hasn't climbed.  I try not to worry about what damage the rabies shot may have done, but won't know that until her next blood work.

Everything else, all other blood values,  are nomral for her. bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 05, 2019, 09:31:42 PM
Just talked to the vet.  Mazy cat's ALT is down 2 points.  It's still higher than normal at 127 (100 is high normal) but 127 down from 129 is a good thing, means it hasn't climbed.  I try not to worry about what damage the rabies shot may have done, but won't know that until her next blood work.

Everything else, all other blood values,  are nomral for her. bananamiddlechild

multistars multistars multistars multistars multistars

That is GREAT news!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 06, 2019, 08:00:19 AM
Thanks Pookie. When I told vet about the bad reaction to the rabies vaccine this time, she seemed skeptical.  Maybe it's just me reading things that aren't really there. Phone calls are difficult enough for me. . But it did seem like she didn't really believe me, or rather, didn't believe it was the rabies vaccine at fault.  I know she is anti-over vaccination, or used to be.

Mazy cat is back on track anyway.  I just can't shake the worry about what that rabies vaccine did to her liver. Not enough to get an extra blood test though, I won't put Mazy cat through that.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 06, 2019, 09:30:16 PM
Thanks Pookie. When I told vet about the bad reaction to the rabies vaccine this time, she seemed skeptical.  Maybe it's just me reading things that aren't really there. Phone calls are difficult enough for me. . But it did seem like she didn't really believe me, or rather, didn't believe it was the rabies vaccine at fault.  I know she is anti-over vaccination, or used to be.

My  2cents . . . go with your gut.  If something's telling you that she seemed skeptical, you're probably right.  Vets and doctors don't seem to want to admit that sometimes vaccines can cause problems.  It's a shame, but I'm not sure what can be done about it.

As for Mazy, I'm glad she's feeling herself again.  I know you're very careful about trying new things with her, but if you're that concerned about her liver, would you be comfortable giving her milk thistle for liver support, starting at a very small amount and slowly building up to the full dose?  If I'm asked about that before, I apologize for being repetitive.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 07, 2019, 07:07:45 AM
She's on Sam-e (Denosyl) for liver support.  I started with milk thistle once but stopped it, I don't remember why. I also don't remember when so would have to dig back through the journals.

My vet is careful about vaccines usually, Queen Eva hasn't had a rabies shot since she was 2 years old because she had a bad reaction. She gets a titer ever two years.

Thanks Pookie

Mazy cat is playing like a kitten this morning.  Even knocked Queen Eva over when she tried to barge in. funny2


You know what, Mazy cat is still showing signs of discomfort immediately after eating. In fact yesterday she was so urpy I gave her a pepcid.  Sigh....
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 07, 2019, 10:21:19 AM
I had t give her a pepcid today too.  :'(
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 12, 2019, 06:09:44 AM
Mazy cat is still struggling since the rabies vaccine. She did go 10 days between vomits, but lots of urpy days and not eating all her meals. I think she's lost some weight this week, I'll know at weigh in tomorrow.

Is it too late to do some sort of detox?  And how to detox a cat? Especially a cat as sensitive to any dietary change as Mazy cat is? I've tried giving her fluids and she got so upset I am reluctant to try again.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on April 12, 2019, 03:30:34 PM
 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 12, 2019, 09:13:50 PM
Mazy cat is still struggling since the rabies vaccine. She did go 10 days between vomits, but lots of urpy days and not eating all her meals. I think she's lost some weight this week, I'll know at weigh in tomorrow.

 :(

Quote
Is it too late to do some sort of detox?  And how to detox a cat? Especially a cat as sensitive to any dietary change as Mazy cat is? I've tried giving her fluids and she got so upset I am reluctant to try again.

If I remember correctly, the homeopathic remedy for vaccines is thuja occidentalis, but the specific homeopathic for the rabies vaccine is Lyssin.  I did a VERY quick search and found this article:  https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/homeopathic-treatment-vaccine-reactions/  which indicates Silica might be the best remedy for her symptoms.  The thing is, I have no experience with using those remedies for treating vaccines and I don't know if you would have access to those remedies anyway unless you have a health food store in your area, or you want to order via Amazon or from the manufacturer directly.  You would really need an experienced homeopathic vet to guide you on the potency and dosing.  With homeopathy, you have to use the remedy that best fits all of the symptoms.  There are homeopaths that do consults over the phone, but I suspect they're expensive. 

Here's a different take on detoxing:  https://vitalanimal.com/detox-vaccination/     

Quote
Detoxing heavy metals post vaccination may help, but you can surmise it won’t help to a great extent, as vaccinosis is clearly much deeper than intoxication. Nor will vaccinosis be addressed by any type of bodily cleanse. It’s an energetic disturbance.

This reminded me that homeopathy is energy healing, which led me to thinking about other forms of energy healing.  I know Mazy Cat has had Reiki before, so that might be worth a try.  Acupuncture might also be helpful, but even if you have a vet in your area that does it, I know that Mazy gets very stressed just going to her regular vet, so I don't think it would be an option.

I do wonder . . . you mention the urpy days, and since the ACV helped so much in the past when she was showing signs of discomfort after eating, I wonder if it would help to increase the ACV a little bit, maybe 1 or 2 extra drops?  If it doesn't help, or seems to make her more uncomfortable, it's easy enough to go back to the normal amount.  I just can't help thinking it might be worth a try, if you're comfortable doing it.

 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 15, 2019, 05:26:56 AM
Thank you very much Pookie.  Yeah I am not really a fan of the detox route anyway. I've looked at those products, and most come with alcohol in them. 

Increased ACV was what I started with, I should have said, but it made things worse, so I have stopped the ACV for now, and have decided to go with a two week course of pepcid, then start back on her regular regimen. If she's developing an ulcer, the pepcid will help, and ACV of course would be making things worse.

With Mazy cat it's always guess work.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 15, 2019, 08:51:01 AM
Thank you very much Pookie.  Yeah I am not really a fan of the detox route anyway. I've looked at those products, and most come with alcohol in them. 

Not directing this at you, but FYI for anyone else reading:  homeopathics also come in tablet or pellet form which do not contain alcohol.  I used them on Pookie -- just crush it between 2 metal spoons and get what you can under the cat's tongue.  The crushed pill can be mixed in food as well.  I found the tablets easier to use.

Quote
Increased ACV was what I started with, I should have said, but it made things worse, so I have stopped the ACV for now, and have decided to go with a two week course of pepcid, then start back on her regular regimen. If she's developing an ulcer, the pepcid will help, and ACV of course would be making things worse.

With Mazy cat it's always guess work.

 :(   GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 15, 2019, 06:04:52 PM
Thanks Pookie. The pepcid seems to be making the difference.  I will keep her on it two weeks.

 For informational purposes: the dose for cats is 1/4 of a 10 mg tablet once a day.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 18, 2019, 05:21:59 AM
Mazy cat is doing so much better on the pepcid.  bananamiddlechild.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on April 18, 2019, 04:24:59 PM
 tiggerbounce
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 18, 2019, 04:55:07 PM
I was wondering how she was doing.  Thanks for the update!   multistars
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 24, 2019, 05:07:58 AM
Forgot to give Mazy cat her pepcid yesterday. She's doing okay but I want to go the whole two weeks so will resume tonight.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 26, 2019, 04:00:04 PM
Thank goodness for this thread.  I had somehow omitted writing down the date I started Mazy cat's pepcid. I was thinking today was the last day but according to this thread she has 3 more days to go.  She seems much better today.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: ThreeStep on April 26, 2019, 05:03:27 PM
Do not feel alone. It can happen to the most organized person.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 28, 2019, 02:07:05 PM
Thanks threestep. I've stopped the pepcid.  She's starting to show effects of missing the ACV, and I want to get her back on it. Hopefully healing is done.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 02, 2019, 06:41:28 PM
No more signs of that urpiness thank goodness.  She's back on her usual AVC drops. Her vomitng pattern hasn't changed wither.  She's thundering around the house, dancing sideways to ask for Games...all is well and normal.

And..tonight Mazy cat at 0.9 oz at one meal for supper.  That's the most she has ever eaten at one time (and kept down). This is the only meal I feed her that large of a meal, but it's a huge step.

She threw up her breakfast this morning and didn't want her third breakfast meal so, being a whole ounce deficit for the day, I wanted to try to get more into her in the evening, is why I risked the .9 oz meal. She'll still be at a deficit for the day, but one day won't affect her weight maintenance...and now I know she can eat .9 ounce all at once.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on May 03, 2019, 11:41:02 AM
No more signs of that urpiness thank goodness.  She's back on her usual AVC drops. Her vomitng pattern hasn't changed wither.  She's thundering around the house, dancing sideways to ask for Games...all is well and normal.

That's great news!  multistars multistars multistars


Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: ThreeStep on May 03, 2019, 05:00:10 PM
That is good news!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 03, 2019, 09:12:34 PM
Thanks you guys.  Yes I am thrilled that Mazy cat can now eat almost a whole ounce at one meal. I don't feed her that much at every meal, but it indicates progress and that's what matters most. She's 15 years old, raw fed almost 7 years and still getting better.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on May 04, 2019, 05:32:21 PM
 thumbsup1 thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 17, 2019, 04:19:42 PM
 Mazy cat is now consistently eating one meal (main supper serving) that is 0.95 ounces in size. She is also now having one (of 3) of her breakfast meals at 0.7 ounces in size.

 Mazy cat's issue is vomiting and her vomiting patterns have not really changed much over the years. Because of that I have to look for other signs that she has improved, and being able to eat larger meals is significant improvement for her.

I can remember back early on, maybe even in this thread one of you making fun of me about (in a kind way) about feeding Mazy cat 0.3 oz at a time.  You couldn't fathom that tiny of an amount.  And yet there was a time that that is ALL she could eat per serving.

Mazy cat's diet is still Rad Cat and EZcomplete. Chicken breast and chicken thigh only with the EZc. Still having turkey with the RC. The Rad Cat turkey is only 1/3 of her diet now (as opposed to 2/3) as my remaining RC supply dwindles. In 6 weeks she will be 100% EZcomplete with the exception of prey-model Sundays (with egg shell calcium).

I have not attempted her with Alnutrin, though her egg shell calcium and taurine supplement does come from them, so it's still a possibility, for a change of pace for her. (Queen Eva has both Alnutrin and EZc)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 27, 2019, 07:54:53 AM
Mazy cat is struggling with hairballs this month, 3 months late!  Queen Eva too. Usually this problem starts in February.

Anyway, her is a typical cycle for her: 

She went 10 days with no vomit, then brought up a breakfast meal (no fur). Two days later she brought up a wad of fur sometime over night or in the early morning, not with a meal. That so rarely happens, and I was encouraged to see it, but the next day she brought up a breakfast meal again. (no fur) So I knew there was a wad that wasnt' moving.

The enxt three days she refused her third breakfast meal.  I know in advacne if she isnt' going to eat it, because she goes to bed after her second serving instead of waiting on the kitchen chair or on my klap.

Expericne has taught me to NOT try to entice her toe at that thrid meal if she indicates she doens't want it.  I have had to really work on myself, not fretting aobut her missing a meal.  Better missed than brought up, right? Of course then my brain says humph, that's all very well but what if she misses this meal and stil brings up another?

But for the most part I am resigned to that.

So for three days she skipped that meal and then on the fourth day she started eating it again.  I was still waiting for the wad to be passed but I took her eating that meal again to mean it was finally on the move.  I was right but it took a few more days of poop watching before she finally passed the worst of the fur.Poor thing can't imagine how it must have felt coming out, it was three little rolls of pure solid fur. Hard as a rock too.

Now she starts all over.

It just reiterates what I have always believed to be her problem - poor motility (caused by 6 1/2 years of garbage diet).

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 02, 2019, 08:18:04 AM
This morning Mazy cat threw up a wad of fur before breakfast.  That is so rare, but it always makes me happy. Especially because this morning was earmarked for her first all EZcomplete - no Rad Cat- morning.

With careful rationing I have about a month-maybe 6 weeks of Rad Cat meals left. That is, dropping the Rad Cat to 3 times a week with a 2nd EZcomplete meal in the other days. So today was the first of those days.

To clarify: until today it was Rad Cat first, then EZcomplete, in the morning.  Today, only EZc.

Mazy cat has been getting those mats again.  She had one in the thick ruff around her neck. I've been swiping at it for weeks trying to get it out, much to her displeasure,  finally got the last bit today.  It wasn't -quite- a mat yet thankfully, but it would have been soon.  Her undercoat is just so thick and curly.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 23, 2019, 08:21:43 AM
Mazy cat is on day 15 in her non vomiting cycle.  She had frontline plus applied yesterday due to a flea scare (details in another thread) so I wanted to mention it here. She's pooping out tons of fur, and shedding heavily still.

Frontline plus is not absorbed systemically, It distributes into the hair follicles and skin, so I am hoping it won't affect her too much.

EDIT...never mind I just found Mazy cat's lunch from yesterday (and her Denosyl pill) puked up on the porch. So it was a 14 day span.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 05, 2019, 09:41:28 AM
Looking over the months so far this year Mazy cat continues in her usual pattern, the one she's had for years now.

# of vomits per month:

December 4, January 6, Feb 5, March 7, April 5, May 6, June 5.

And July, as of today 1 :)

That's an average of less than two a week. Of course some months she has those long spans, the one with 14 days in June for example, and once in a very great while she goes 21 days, but mostly it's 7-10 days, sometimes a little less.

Her progress has to be measured in other ways, and she is still progressing...since she is now down to 8 meals a day and can eat a whole ounce at once, in one of her meals.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 28, 2019, 09:12:29 AM
Mazy cat is in the middle of one of those episodes where I know she's got a wad of fur in her stomach that won't move.

I've browsed through the thread to refresh my memory of how I handle these in previous times. We're on the second day since it became obvious she's having trouble. I've cut her daily rations in half, only feeding 0.2 oz at a meal and waiting 3 hours before serving another, and giving her a 12 hour fast over night. (the last two nights). I've increased her EYL to 3 times a day (yesterday) and she also had SEB 3 times yesterday, with lots of water, and even a small amount of psyllium in one meal.

She has been having her normally scheduled poops, but they just aren't containing the fur.  Since I reduced the meals to tiny she is keeping them down, but her last vomit (full meal, two days ago) had no fur in it, and it was enough for me to safely assume she'd brought up two meals in that one puke, so the previous meal hadn't been able to move through.

(Queen Eva is having trouble this year too, and I think I've come tot he conclusion that it's the absence of the Rad Cat, which contained psyllium. And possibly more egg yolk than they are getting with the EZc and Alnutrin (Queen Eva only).  Mazy cat already gets 1/3 yolk a day (split between AM and PM) and Queen Eva was getting it once a week so I've increased Queen Eva's yolk to a few times a week and upped her EYL to a whole capsule a few times a week, and her normal half the rest of the time.)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 15, 2019, 01:55:47 PM
Good news bad news. Looks like the only place I can currently source Coleman's chicken (Mazy cat's chicken) is shrinking it out. When I went yesterday they had a few packs of Coleman's left, with sale stickers and dated yesterday or today, then a bin full of this new brand.  That's the bad news. 

The good news, maybe, is that the new brand has the non-GMO Project Verified stamp.  (the other store replaced Coleman's with their own organic non gmo brand but does not have non-GMO Project Verified)

So I've bought some to try, pray she's okay with it.  They had roasters too so I got one of them for skin and liver (and bone broth) and can do a slow transition with the liver and skin, since I still have plenty of Coleman's liver and skin left. I have plenty of Coleman's breast and thigh left for a slow transition, too. Thank goodness I went when I did, eh?

There is another bit of good news, possibly. They also had a brand of organic turkey breast, also with the non-GMO Project Verified stamp!  This is huge, because since the end of Rad Cat I've had no other protein for Mazy cat.  I suspect they are just trying it out, if it sells the might keep it going, if not...well. Or maybe they'll just have it when it's on sale

Organic turkey is just about impossible to find and to find it with the non-GMO Project Verified is miraculous. (I went to the project site to verify that it wasn't a fake stamp)

How I long for a big deep freeze so I could stock up!

I bought one pack though and will feed her little bits of it to be sure her body can handle it, and to get her body used to it, then, since I only bought the one pack it will probably turn into her Sunday night prey model supper.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Lola on September 15, 2019, 03:20:24 PM
Do you have a Costco in your area?  I bought some chicken that is non Gmo verified.  I didn't look for any other proteins. 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 15, 2019, 04:06:04 PM
No Costco. Just Aldi, Walmart and two chains that are only local to the Northeast. Oh yeah, and BJs. I don't go into Aldi, it's disgusting, smells like mold. I don't buy meat at Walmart. I don't go into BJs hate that place.  I shop at Hannaford mainly, and Price Chopper for Mazy cat's Coleman brand chicken. Or did.  If they've shrunk it out, at least their replacement also has the non-GMO Project Verified stamp. I don't trust "no GMOs" without that stamp, for Mazy cat.

When Hannaford dropped Coleman's and brought in their own organic brand, it does not have the non-GMO Project Verified stamp, it just makes the claim "no GMOs"It's not any cheaper than Coleman's either.  I do buy it for Queen Eva but Mazy cat threw it up so there's some cheating going on there.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on September 15, 2019, 05:26:04 PM
Quote
So I've bought some to try, pray she's okay with it.

 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 22, 2019, 11:56:14 AM
Starting the turkey today, just her 0.2 oz lunch meal.

However I've started something new also, adding George's aloe to her first meal of the morning, in an attempt to help her cope with the fur accumulated from her inevitable overnight thorough bath.

I'm not sure why I thought of it, but in the middle of the night Friday night I could hear her washing and washing and she really took a long time over it all so I was sure Saturday morning was going to be a major puke morning. Plus she was due, based on her usual pattern. For some reason I decided to try the George's aloe, 1/4 teaspoon, I added it to her first breakfast meal at the last minute, and it seemed to help.  I repeated this morning and have checked with those who know in the Raw Feeding for IBD group and it is safe to use daily.

I will backup now and drop it to every two days for a while and then maybe every other day, to prevent any "sudden new change) issues.

CLARIFICATION:  George's Aloe is safe to use in cats as it has had the latex removed. Latex in aloe vera is what is toxic to cats.

I am currently using this 8 oz bottle, but if I plan to continue the daily next time I will probably buy the quart size. It doesn't spoil. It doesn't need refrigeration but I keep it in the fridge anyway.

https://smile.amazon.com/Georges-Aloe-Vera-Bitter-Preservatives/dp/B016A01VJ2/ref=sr_1_5?crid=EEFW0M7DSELY&keywords=georges+aloe+vera+juice&qid=1569170762&sprefix=georges+a%2Caps%2C198&sr=8-5

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 01, 2019, 06:27:01 AM
I did not continue with the aloe as it seems to have messed her up, her bowel movements specifically, something she almost never has problems with (once in a great while). She hasn't pooped in almost 5 days, except for a small one last night. No straining or signs of discomfort while passing it, but it was so small, she's probably got a wad of fur clocking everything up.. I stopped the aloe a week ago, after only a few doses. Still eating and acting normal, including going 12 days between vomits, last night before I remembered the lactulose, I gave her some mineral oil, then remembered the lactulose, so  I've given her some lactulose this morning.

I do wonder if the change in water has anything to do with it. We're still all on bottled water because I am still worrying about the chlorine.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 01, 2019, 01:22:40 PM
I do wonder if the change in water has anything to do with it. We're still all on bottled water because I am still worrying about the chlorine.

It's possible.  There may be something in your tap water (minerals, etc.) that help her with bm's that's not in the bottled water.  Could the change in weather also be a factor?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 01, 2019, 05:55:02 PM
Thank you Pookie!  I would have thought the opposite but you may be right and I've started them back on the water tonight.

However I think there's more going on here, mentally, for her.  She's developed a fear of pooping down there after the upset and Queen Eva's litter box bullying.  There is one upstairs now but no one uses it.

Anyway I do have good news to report, she's just..with much coaxing on my part, finally had a big (not s large as I would have expected though) solid poop just chock full of fur. I would have expected it to be softer because of the lactulose, but it isn't at all. I think she might have more to go...I wonder if I should continue with the lactulose for another day or two. I'm only giving her about 2/3 of the prescribed dose.

I had to shut Queen Eva up in the bedroom, coax Mazy cat out of her Safe Spot and carry her down stairs.  Once in the litter box she didn't want to stay and tried twice to get out but I calmly and quietly urged her to try. After sitting very still in it for a few minutes she finally started to move around a little, so I came upstairs and left her alone.  She came up a few minutes later and I hurried down and found the good big furry poop.

Incidentally while I was waiting, I was praying to St Gertrude (Patron Saint of Cats) to please help Mazy cat with this. St Gertrude came through.

Something is definitely off with Mazy cat...mentally. Or maybe it's arthritis pain.  Or..I don't know.  She's pushing 16 now, and as you know has been through so much. Especially lately with the two bite incidents.  Her check up is two weeks from today.

She still plays, with me, and Thundering Around the House, Chase Me Chase You with Queen Eva....though the last few days the play with me has been very limited.  And there's been no Solitaire in a few days, though she has had some, since after all the well/plumber issue and bite and all.

But she seems a bit...vague.... sometimes.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 02, 2019, 05:11:56 AM
Mazy cat is much more herself since that poop. She went down to the litter boxes on her own sometime in the night for a pee. And she's staying in open beds instead of hding in her under the table Safe Spot.

But I worry about this fear of pooping down there. I'm going to give her another dose of lactulose 24 hours after the last one. Just in case the fear is more related to constipation issues rather than trauma/stress and Queen Eva bullying.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 02, 2019, 03:49:26 PM
I have more progress to report!  Home from work, I was getting ready to give Mazy cat her pre-meal and wondering how I could coax her to initiate a pee run on her own, and she did it for me. Not only a pee but another poop, too!

Here's what happened.  She was sitting there watching me so I knew she had to go.  I didn't want to stress her by initiating, because usually it's her doing the "come on and watch me pee" dance. I was wondering whether I needed to shut Queen Eva up.

Mazy cat took care of al of it herself.

First, she batted Queen Eva around the kitchen until Queen Eva jumped up on the half wall. Once she had Queen Eva out fo the way she gave me a look, then ran down the stairs! I followed of course because she always tops half way down to wait for me. Once down stairs she went straight to the litter boxes.  Got in the big one, changedc her mind and got in the small one and peed (In a squat, she only shoots her pee in the big one).  She half buried the pee, then hesitated for just a second (Queen Eva still above on the half wall, did not come down to sit half way down the stairs and try to intimidate her) she got back into the big box for a poop.

Rather than wait I left her to it and came upstairs and Queen Eva had her fly swatter session on the bed until Mazy cat came up on her own.

Poop is still a bit firm, but with a bit of mucous on the outside of it now, so I'm going to give her another dose, a half dose, of the lactulose.

Maybe age is catching up to her a bit with her poop maybe?  If she needs help I am happy to use the lactulose. It's the powder I had specially compounded for Jennie Angel.  It goes right in her food and she doesn't even notice it.

I think this was all cumulative from the series of events. I do hope we're over the worst of it now. That she chased Queen Eva out of her way and went down on her own is a big step.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 02, 2019, 04:25:22 PM
Well hell, after all that good news she had to bring up her pre-meal (lactulose and all) with a giant wad of fur. I'm not sorry, she obviously had to get that wad out.  It's also most likely a result of her feeling better, she must have had a good long bath sometime today, and that fur just had to come up.

Still, it makes her short a meal for the day, and there really isn't another meal I can give the lactulose.  Unless I start supper early, and split it up a small amount first, then an hour or so later the rest. Supper is three meals, supper, then an hour and a half later her GLM portion then an hour and a half after that her bed time meal. Well, we'll see. Maybe I'll just wait and do the lactulose first thing in the morning.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 02, 2019, 09:47:20 PM
I have more progress to report!  Home from work, I was getting ready to give Mazy cat her pre-meal and wondering how I could coax her to initiate a pee run on her own, and she did it for me. Not only a pee but another poop, too!

I think this was all cumulative from the series of events. I do hope we're over the worst of it now. That she chased Queen Eva out of her way and went down on her own is a big step.

multistars multistars multistars

Well hell, after all that good news she had to bring up her pre-meal (lactulose and all) with a giant wad of fur. I'm not sorry, she obviously had to get that wad out.  It's also most likely a result of her feeling better, she must have had a good long bath sometime today, and that fur just had to come up.

 :(   On the "bright" side, she's probably feeling better now that she got all that fur out of her system.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 03, 2019, 04:29:58 AM
Thanks Pookie  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 04, 2019, 04:14:52 PM
Mazy cat went downstairs and had a poop all by herself this afternoon while I was cooking in the kitchen. I didn't see her do it, and I didn't notice if Queen Eva harassed her.  I simply found it later when I went down to turn on the hot water.

bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 04, 2019, 09:29:38 PM
multistars multistars multistars
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 05, 2019, 06:44:49 AM
multistars multistars multistars

 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 05, 2019, 08:02:16 AM

 And then, a little while later, me still cooking in the kitchen, I smelled poop, and went down and found she'd done it again!  This one was a big smelly log, chock full of fur and mucosy, so I think she's finally cleaned out the backlog of poop in her colon.

 I'm back and forth on whether to keep on with the lactulose. She had a dose yesterday so I might wait a few days and see how things go. I want to start her on the microlactin, because her arthritis is definitely catching up to her this year, but I want to wait until she's had her blood work before starting it. If there are any changes in her bloods, I don't want to wonder if the microlactin has caused it.

If her kidneys are going, lactulose might be a problem, as it can cause hypercalcemia in CKD cats.  I experienced this with Ootay Angel. But of course with Mazy cat, if her kidneys are going, there won't be any heroics, only palliative care.

However there is no problem with Mazy cat's appetite, even during lal that constipation period, she continued to eat! Nor did her vomiting pattern change at all.  So I may find out she's still as healthy as an ox! Except for the arthritis pain.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 14, 2019, 01:05:55 PM
All well here.  I've cut the lactulose to 1/2 ml every 3 days.  Not sure she even needs it at all, but her stools are a bit harder than they used to be, so I might keep on with it, maybe try dropping it to every 4 days even.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 15, 2019, 09:34:19 AM
Mazy cat had her check up and blood work and anal gland clean out. Ears are good, vet wanted to check her teeth and I said No.  Hazy cat did give a big hiss so she got a quick look but I said no to the wooden stick. That I would watch her for signs of problems and the only way they were going to look into her mouth was next time she is anesthetized.

I mentioned that there has been no change in her coughing pattern or lack of, every once in a while she has a coughing spell. Once a week or less, when I am home to see it. Of course she could be coughing when I am not here, but I am here all hours of the day and night sometimes, and there is not significant issue.  Still not sure if it's asthma or a digestive issue. But I'm not willing to do anything invasive regarding that.

I mentioned the wobbliness on her back legs and my concern about her advancing arthritis, and vet checked her over carefully and said her hips are creaking a bit..arthritis.

Vet seemed to think I was asking for pain meds and did a spiel about the pain med choices and no safe NSAIDS and all that. Things I already know of course.  I said I don't want to put her on drugs I want to add microlactin. I added that there is a made for pets version called Duralactin.  She hadn't ever heard of it!  I was sure she'd be the first to recommend the pet brand.

I don't intend to use the Duralactin though, just pure microlactin powder. However when I speak to her about the blood work results I hope to remember to say casually, did you look up the Duralactin to see if it would be okay for Mazy cat?

She felt it was okay to keep Mazy cat on the lactulose and suggested I give it daily. If 1/2 ml a day was working, then she recommends staying on that. With her arthritis and all, I can see why this would benefit Mazy cat, but I don't want her to have to suffer any cramping or anything, that's why I am using it so sparingly.

https://prnpharmacal.com/product/duralactin-feline-capsules/

Better info here:

https://www.chewy.com/duralactin-feline-capsules-cat/dp/110916

The product I am going to be using is this:
https://smile.amazon.com/Swanson-Microlactin-Powder-4-9-Pwdr/dp/B07NCZ5C92/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3J02FL8879HOR&keywords=microlactin&qid=1571149692&s=hpc&sprefix=microlactin%2Caps%2C154&sr=1-4

The patented microlactin source is the same for both products: Stolle Milk Bilogics

I'll be adding this part to Mazy cat's arthritis thread.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 18, 2019, 05:08:19 AM
These vet trips seem to really take it out of Mazy cat physically now.  She fine, mentally, as soon as she's home. But she is stiff and sore for several days after.  I suppose with the restraining they have to do, it must hurt her. And the stress of course.  She's doing better  as of last night.

She's on day 9 of her no vomit cycle so that's good.  Getting lactulose every 2 days, 1/2 ml added to her supper pre-meal.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 18, 2019, 09:57:47 AM
Poor girl.   :(  Would Rescue Remedy help her at all?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 18, 2019, 04:13:38 PM
Poor girl.   :(  Would Rescue Remedy help her at all?

Sorry, not sure what you mean. I said she's dong better? She gets Rescue Remedy before vet trips, but there is no avoiding her needing to be held and restrained during the visit,  during her exam, blood draw and anal gland expression. Judging by my own pain level after certain physical exertions or stress, I am sure these things do cause her some pain afterward.

But she was much better last night and she's back to her normal self completely as of this morning.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 18, 2019, 05:00:59 PM
Sorry, I was asking if it would help her AFTER the vet visit as well.  I'm glad she's doing better!   :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 18, 2019, 05:05:52 PM
Sorry, I was asking if it would help her AFTER the vet visit as well.  I'm glad she's doing better!   :)

She isn't stressed once she's home again. The benefit of a dose lasts about 4 hours, and I give it 1/2 hour before we leave. Do you think it would help with the joint and muscle pain somehow?

 I think she just gets sore from being held so tightly, because of her arthritis..
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 18, 2019, 05:09:10 PM
Do you think it would help with the joint and muscle pain somehow?

I don't know.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 18, 2019, 05:50:35 PM
I don't know.

Me either.

Anyway I've got great news.  Mazy cat's blood work is good, and the best news of all her ALT (liver value) has come down to 103!

I think this is directly related to my change I made, giving the egg yolk lecithin at the same time as I give the denosyl.
.
.
.

(I've just gone back over this thread to find the post but it looks like I never mentioned it here so here's the scoop: )

You know how sometimes I would find a denosyl lodged in a wad of fur as much as 18 or 24 hours after having given it to her, when she would puke up her breakfast meal.  I started thinking about that and how the pill gets caught up in fur in her gut and might be effecting the efficacy of the supplement. So (I think it was about 6 months ago) I started giving her one of her egg yolk lecithin doses at lunch time, the same time she gets her denosyl.  Because the EYL wil be working on any fur lodged there, loosening the fur, and letting the denosyl proceed as it is supposed to.

I have no way to really know for sure but I think this may be the reason her liver numbers have dropped by 24 points and are almost normal again (100 is high normal).

All other numbers are where they should be. bananamiddlechild

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 18, 2019, 05:54:21 PM
 DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

multistars multistars multistars multistars multistars multistars multistars multistars multistars multistars multistars multistars
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 06, 2019, 05:45:13 AM
I've been giving Mazy cat the lactulose every 3 days (1/2 ml) and that has been working well.  I missed a dose so she went four days, and has started having trouble, so now my mental question about if she really needs it has been answered. Yes she needs it and for now 1/2 ml every 3 days is sufficient.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 16, 2019, 08:24:09 AM
Important to note that in the past when Mazy cat vomited, she rarely bought up the fur.  I would know the fur was lodged down in her gut, blocking the pyloric action needed to get it moving.

 Now, in the past few months, when she vomits (same pattern, every 7-10 days with an extra long spell sometimes and sometimes a flurry of shorter spells) she is more often bringing up a big wad. Sometimes a huge wad.

I don't know what it means.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2019, 08:10:07 AM
 Mazy cat is ill this morning. She won't eat, and doesn't want to move.  I did pick her up and urge her to go down and use the litter box. She went down and got in the box but didn't pee, just got right back out, however she was moving without trouble. She tried to eat but gave up after a few licks and went back to her bed.

She ate her supper as normal yesterday, needed coaxing at bed time meal but did eat it. Big poop yesterday morning but very little fur.  Then she threw up her breakfast (still talking about yesterday morning) so I decided to let her fast until I came home from my hike. I gave her SEB/aloe blob washed down with a syringe of water, and nothing else so she had 18 hours fast. I'd hoped that would be enough time for the wad to move through but it looks like it wasn't.

This is highly unusual, Mazy cat almost always will eat. She might bring it back up, but she almost always has an appetite.  I've gotten the heating pad out, she hasn't discovered it yet, and I will try broth and chicken slivers later today.

So glad I am on vacation this week.

EDIT Just after I wrote all that she got up and came over here and is on my lap with a soft purr (and paw on my wrist waiting for me to stop typing!)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2019, 08:41:38 AM
Mazy cat has discovered the heating pad bed, and has also had a very tiny bit of stewed chicken soaked in broth. While she took the offered tiny slivers willingly, the way she ate them seems to indicate some nausea. I have Cerenia here if I think she needs it. With all her vomiting she never shows signs of nausea, her vomiting is triggered by poor motility, so, if it is nausea, this is something new.

She's settled in her heating pad bed and I don't want to disturb her now, but I may try to slip a dose of Cerenia down her a bit later. Cerenia helps with pain too so if her tummy is hurting or even an arthritis flare (she and Queen Eva have been doing a LOT of Thundering Around the House the last couple of days, I just realized it might be part of it) the Cerenia will help her feel better.

Wish I'd thought of it before she found the heating pad bed.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2019, 10:21:03 AM
Poor thing.  She heard me in the kitchen preparing her next serving of stewed chicken soaked in broth and first showed some interest from her bed (see photo), then actually got up (!) and came over. However when I offered it to her in the dish and by hand she refused it so I ambushed her with a Cerenia dose and a shot of water to wash it down.  She's gone back to her heating pad bed and is washing off the indignity (good sign) so in a half hour or so I'll re-offer the chicken and broth.

This is the first time she has had Cerenia ever. I gave her 6 mg.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2019, 10:57:25 AM
So much for the anti-nausea medicine. She just got up from her bed, went downstairs and vomited. The Cerenia will have already dissolved (given half an hour ago), so I didn't see it in the liquid that came up (I don't know how quickly it is absorbed though) HOWEVER, what I did find in the liquid was a small wad of fur with yesterday's Denosyl, still intact, caught up in it.

As I have mentioned here, I have seen this before, if she has fur stuck that can't pass. I mean, with the Denosyl pill stuck in it fur that has been brought up (usually with a meal, but since she hasn't eaten more than a tiny sliver of chicken, there is no food to bring up). It's been almost 24 hours since she had that pill and there it was, still whole, bound up in the fur wad.

I am sure there is more fur to be either moved through or vomited up, so it appears the Cerenia was not really needed after all. I've never really felt that she has nausea, but I decided to give it a try.

So what will happen now is I will let her be, and later periodically offer her some more chicken in broth hand fed.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 24, 2019, 11:59:25 AM
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes

Quote
As I have mentioned here, I have seen this before, if she has fur stuck that can't pass. I mean, with the Denosyl pill stuck in it fur that has been brought up (usually with a meal, but since she hasn't eaten more than a tiny sliver of chicken, there is no food to bring up). It's been almost 24 hours since she had that pill and there it was, still whole, bound up in the fur wad.

Don't you wish you could give her tummy a massage to help move things along?  If only . . .

Crossing fingers and paws that the fur moves out soon and she feels better!   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed

 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2019, 12:06:57 PM
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes

Don't you wish you could give her tummy a massage to help move things along?  If only . . .

Crossing fingers and paws that the fur moves out soon and she feels better!   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed

 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1

OH yes how I wish that.  All other cats I have ever had, I could. but not Mazy cat.  She had a couple of tiny broth soaked slivers a half hour ago and is curled up purring on her heating pad bed.  The snow storm is still happening so we're just hunkered down here.

Thanks Pookie.  It helps to know someone else is thinking of us.   Hug1 Hug1

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2019, 01:08:42 PM
Two hours ago she had a few slivers and ate them. I've just tried again but she has refused any.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 24, 2019, 01:12:10 PM
 :(
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2019, 01:31:38 PM
She is on her heating pad bed (I turn the pad off periodically to ensure she doesn't get too hot) and shows no sign of distress. She's responsive when I pet her always speaking with a little prrt and a soft purr.

We've been through episodes like this before, though rarely. I am so glad I'm off this week.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2019, 03:11:37 PM
It stopped snowing and the plow came through so I ran out to the store.  When I came home Mazy cat gave a series of prrt prrts from her bed which I decided to interpret at interest in food. Since she had refused the chicken and broth last time I gave her just 0.15 oz of her regular EZc food.  She looked eager for just a second and then rejected it.

 This IS a sign of nausea in a cat, but I already gave her the Cerenia. She vomited a half hour later but I don't know if the Cerenia was already absorbed or not, I don't dare give it again. Instead I got out the big guns...Forti Flora.  Haven't had to use it for anyone in years, but it worked. She sniffed and slowly licked up the minuscule amount of food (mixed with a little water).

Now if she keeps it down......
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2019, 03:55:06 PM
Cozy cats
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2019, 05:27:14 PM
Look who's up! She'd been getting quite chatty from her bed (see above pics) as I've been next to her all afternoon watching Call The Midwife Season 2 (notice how Queen Eva is seen to be hovering today, it's odd she usually turns bully when someone is sick but not this time). I asked her if she was hungry and got up to feed Queen Eva supper, and next thing I know...... (she ate 0.22 oz and wanted Forti Flora again)


And then I offered the porch for some fresh air, even though it's dark and cold they still like to go out for a minute or two after they eat and she went out (I used the flash) and then came back in and had a good stretch and scratch and is now on my lap getting very annoyed at all this typing.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2019, 06:56:41 PM
8:02 - she's had another 0.22 oz meal -asked for it herself, and did not need  Forti Flora bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 24, 2019, 08:52:34 PM
Bed time meal..she sang for it, had 0.3 oz but wanted Forti Flora with it and is now dancing sideways asking for a Game.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 24, 2019, 11:01:37 PM
*knock on wood*  It sounds like she's feeling a bit better!  Maybe that first little meal helped settle her tummy and stimulate her appetite a bit?

I'm glad she's eating!   thumbsup1  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 25, 2019, 07:15:00 AM
Thank you Pookie! Good news this morning! She slept with me last night. I heard her get up around 5 (which is my usual rising time when I'm not on vacation). She must have gone down to the litter boxes for a pee, and then I heard her singing, so I knew she was having her Solitaire Game.

I and Queen Eva didn't get up until 7:15 and she was settled and alert on the kitchen chair bed. At 8 a.m. just as I started getting their breakfast she went back down to the litter boxes. Usually she gives me a little dance and invites me to come with her but she slipped down quietly so I didn't follow though I worried she was going down to vomit.

No vomit, after she came back up of course I hurried down there to find a small poop that was almost all fur. That is good news though I am sure there is more to pass.

She's had her breakfast now, just 0.25 oz and went over and asked me to put the heating pad bed on. I did, of course, but when she saw me sit down here she hurried over and got on my lap instead, purring loudly.

The typing was too much annoyance for her though and she's gone back to the kitchen chair bed, which is her usual spot (if not on my lap) in the morning while she waits for her second breakfast meal.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 25, 2019, 08:32:33 AM
I waited for Mazy cat to ask fro another meal before offering anything.  She asked at the  1 1/2 hour mark. She has now had a second small breakfast meal of 0.32 oz., I added her EYL.   She's now gone over to the heating pad bed. When she leaves the kitchen and goes to bed it means she is done eating for the morning.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 25, 2019, 02:18:05 PM
Mazy cat had 0.48 oz at lunch so I think she's put this episode behind her. Whew. Tomorrow we'll go back to all regular portions and supplements and denosyl.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 25, 2019, 02:36:52 PM
Mazy cat had 0.48 oz at lunch so I think she's put this episode behind her. Whew. Tomorrow we'll go back to all regular portions and supplements and denosyl.

 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed  multistars multistars multistars  fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 26, 2019, 07:36:56 AM
Late last night I remembered that Mazy cat ate a moth Friday night. I wonder if that moth triggered this whole thing.  When I remembered that I also stirred a very vague memory of one other time when she ate a moth and had trouble a couple of days later. Hmmmmmm

On the other hand since we already know poor her motility is, it's not unexpected for her to have these spells. This morning she brought up her first breakfast, even after an 11 hour fast, because she had a wad of fur right on top needing to come out. That was her middle of the night bath no doubt.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 27, 2019, 10:03:37 AM
Mazy cat had a poop this morning that ended in liquid :( Now this could be me overcompensating with fat because of her reduced portions, or it could be part of the same illness that caused her not to eat on Sunday. She is eating today and keeping everything down.  I have increased her s.boulardii (doubled from half a capsule twice a day to one whole capsule twice a day).

It has also just this second occurred to me that during her non eating she hasn't been getting her usual SEB. So that could be a factor as well. I'll be sure to start that again tonight.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 27, 2019, 10:09:09 AM
GoodVibes  Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 30, 2019, 09:37:18 AM
Mazy cat is back on her full diet, but not always finishing a meal.  I add the left portions to the next meal and so far I am keeping her to normal intake this way.

She lost one and a half ounces during all this.  That's not bad, I am relieved it wasn't more.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 30, 2019, 06:05:00 PM
 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 07, 2019, 09:17:47 AM
Mazy cat had a couple of urpy days last week and I used the pepcid, since she vomited after being given Cerenia. Otherwise all is well and she is Thundering Around the House and inventing Games like a much younger cat. bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 07, 2019, 01:13:58 PM
multistars multistars multistars
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 25, 2019, 07:28:48 AM
Mazy cat was struggling to eat yesterday. She's vomited every 2 or 3 days for the last 9 days, and then yesterday showing signs of....well to me it means there's a build up of fur in her gut.  So last night after she reluctantly ate only half her supper I decided to let her fast for the remainder of the night.

She did not ask for any more food either, even when I fed Queen Eva at bed time meal.

This morning, after a 14 hour fast I gave her a blob of Slippery Elm Bark and George's aloe (1/4 tsp of the George's Aloe mixed with 1/8 tsp SEB, stir until it forms a little round blob). I slip the blob in her mouth as far back as I can and as soon as she swallows i shoot a syringe of water in to wash it down.

After having the blob I opened the porch for some fresh air and enticed her into playing a Thunder Around The House game, to get all systems moving and working.

I gave the SEB blob a half hour to spread out and do it's soothing work and then fed her a tiny meal, 0.2 oz with her EYL and s.boulardii in, which she has so far kept down.

I will continue to feed tiny meals this morning every half hour or so, meanwhile hoping that the 14 hour fast has got the fur blockage moving through the pylorus into the small intestine.

Brr it's cold, time to close the door!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 25, 2019, 10:21:28 PM
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 29, 2019, 07:47:46 AM
Mazy cat is still struggling with a wad of fur stuck somewhere. She is eating better but vomiting a meal every 2 or 3 days.  She's pooping on a normal schedule but there is no fur in the poop, and no fur coming up when she vomits a meal.

She's lost 2 ounces in one week.

So she hadn't passed any fur, either way, in days.  Last night she did finally have a big smelly poop with some fur in it. But it's not nearly enough. I have no way of knowing where the wad is, I can only continue on with the egg yolk and increased fat. I did increase the lactulose to every 2 days instead of every 3, and that was when she had that furry poop, so I might continue with that increase for a while longer.

I notice these episodes are happening more often now, as she gets older. 15 1/2 years old now.

One other thing. 3 days ago I stopped giving her slippery elm bark. The brand I have been using all these years..I think the quality has fallen off. I've ordered a different brand, an organic non GMO brand, and I will reintroduce it when it comes in. However, I don't know if the poorer quality SEB has any bearing on this current problem.  I started a new bottle about 3 weeks ago, which is about when all this started. I stopped it three days ago.

I am not going to use, or recommend, any NOW products any more.  Something has happened there, I think they are now much poorer quality.

When I wrote to complain about what appeared to be a change in the krill oil, for example, even though it states on the bottle quality and effectiveness guaranteed, I got a big hassle and run around about my complaint. Instead of guaranteeing anything they wanted to argue with me about their "new process".  (so I was RIGHT the product was different) and how wonderful it was now, even better than before blah blah, I finally asked to talk to a higher up and did end up getting my money back. But I'm done with them, for all products.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 29, 2019, 12:24:54 PM
I use the Frontier brand of SEB, in powder form.  That's the company my favorite health food store carries, and I know the owner researches the companies before she carries them.

 fingerscrossed that the SEB you ordered comes quickly and really helps Mazy Cat.  fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 21, 2020, 05:51:40 AM
^^ Thanks Pookie, Amazon has Frontier but only in 1 pound sizes.

Anyway I never did put her back on the SEB, yet.  I wanted to see if she really needed it. I did buy a new brand, organic non-GMO brand.  So what's been happening now is I notice she doesn't want to eat much in the morning any more.  It only just now dawned on me that her lack of appetite in the morning may be tied into the fact I stopped the SEB in her bed time meal.

Dec 26 was when I stopped it so it's been almost 3 weeks.

I'm going to start adding it to her bed time meal again..slowly of course just a tiny amount, and see if her lack of interest in food improves.

I had to use the forti flora yesterday to get enough into her, because the day before she refused al evening meals. I think that was fur, as she had a lot of furry poop yesterday morning.

So it's all tied up in the same issues, her motility of course. I've increased her fat again, since she is eating less, to help keep the calories up. She's a half ounce down from her normal weight at the moment.

Still lively as ever, always ready to play, Thunders Around The House,  leaps into her Crow's Nest in a single bound from the floor and goes into a somersault at the end of the leap, Airborne games,  and so on.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 21, 2020, 03:11:29 PM
I'm glad to hear she's still active.   fingerscrossed that adding the SEB helps with her appetite!   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 21, 2020, 06:38:47 PM
Thanks Pookie!  Hug1 HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 13, 2020, 05:32:56 AM
Mazy cat's appetite has gone back to normal, but I have not continued with the daily SEB, that she used to have for years.  It doesn't seem to make any difference, except it causes her stool to be too hard and dry. So I am going to use it only on an as needed basis from now on.

I'm not needing the forti flora any more to help her finish, thank goodness. I hate using that stuff, even in the tiny amounts needed.

She's changed her eating schedule again. She wants less in the morning, a lot less, she's eating 0.6 ounces less in the morning, so that has had to be added at the other end of the day's meals. However I've worked it out and she is still getting the right amount of food and maintaining her weight.

Currently at a 12 day no vomit streak. Could end at any moment of course.

She is getting 1/2 ml lactulose every other day now. I have increased her fat a little as well. She is 100% EZc with chicken breast and chicken thigh her only meat.  The exception is on Sunday she gets a prey model meal (egg shell calcium rather than bone) for her two supper meals. I think she would prefer EZc even for that meal but I feel compelled to give her SOME variety, even it it's only one meal a week.

Still eating 8 meals a day.

Keeping the skin supply is a struggle. I use the skin off the roasters of the brand of organic non-GMO Project Verified chicken I feed her.  So I buy a roaster, save the giblets for Queen Eva and the liver for both of them for their Sunday PMR meals, and pull the skin off for Mazy cat.  One roaster skin lasts about a month. It used to last 6 weeks.

 I make bone broth with the carcass, freezing the meat once it's cooked and then freezing the broth into individual servings sizes for myself, and the bone broth servings for Mazy cat (she gets 1/2 tbs a day)  These days I have more broth than I can eat before it's time  to make it again. I have it two or three nights a week for supper, but I do want something else once in a while! Mainly because I can't stand the worry over running out so I try to keep at least a 2 month back stock of skin at all times.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 15, 2020, 08:00:51 AM
Don't you hate when you post a happy update and then all hell breaks loose?  funny2

Actually it isn't THAT bad.  However Mazy cat has skipped a couple meals now  Then she broke her 2 week streak last night, and two meals came up, very foul smelling.

She TOLD me she didn't want that second meal but because she had just had a poop that was pure fur, I was sure she was just holding out for some incentive. I was wrong. That meal and the one 2 hours previous, came up.  I decided not to feed her any mroe but at bed time she said she wanted to eat so I did give her bed time meal, but added a full serving of SEB with it.

Overnight she had yet another poop, a bit soft, with tons more fur, so it all became clear to me. The poop had no odor, because she'd puked out the foulness.

I am no biology expert but I do wonder sometimes if the force of these vomits are causing the fur that is blocking the pyloric sphincter to move through. I don't know how to search to find the answer but it makes sense to me.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 16, 2020, 10:38:00 PM
Quote
She TOLD me she didn't want that second meal but because she had just had a poop that was pure fur, I was sure she was just holding out for some incentive. I was wrong.

That'll teach ya!   Silly7

Quote
I am no biology expert but I do wonder sometimes if the force of these vomits are causing the fur that is blocking the pyloric sphincter to move through. I don't know how to search to find the answer but it makes sense to me.

That's very possible.  Vomiting is spasmodic and it's not like it's just the front end is moving while the rest of her is motionless.  So it could be that the spasms from vomiting get the other (GI) muscles to move as well.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 18, 2020, 05:13:35 AM
Thanks Pookie, yes that's what I thought. Sometimes the contractions before vomiting are really strong.

Mazy cat is doing better again now, but I'm having to try to squeeze in extra amounts to certain meals for her to regain that 2 ounces again.

She is so playful all the time it's just incredible to think of her as ill. First thing in the morning she wants to play. Queen Eva still in bed and me staggering around barely awake and she's dancing sideways with her back arched telling me c'mon c'mon pick up that String-on-a-Stick!

Tomorrow is her 15th Gotcha Day.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 07, 2020, 07:32:06 AM
I may have already said this but I HAVE found Mazy cat's pattern.  She passes masses of fur in her poop on a regular basis, and then, for some reason, stops. The poop starts having no fur and within a few days of that she vomits. She may only need to vomit once a week, sometimes it might take 2 or 3 or even 4 vomits within a week or 10 days to clear herself before she starts over.

Her regular span is 7 days, but sometimes (more often now actually!) she will go 10, 12 even 14 days between vomits.

Her average monthly total for 2019 was 6 vomits per month, but there were some months going 7 or 8 and other months only 4 or 5.

Looking back over the years there doesn't seem to be much seasonal pattern. In September 2018 she only vomited 4 times, in September 2019 she vomited 9 times.

Her activity level remains extremely high, thundering around the house like crazy, wants to play Games all the time, has three or four different Games a night.

I am trying hard not to worry about the move.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 07, 2020, 07:54:05 AM
Quote
I am trying hard not to worry about the move.

I see LOTS of Rescue Remedy in your future.  For all of you (human and feline).  And you already know this:  talk to them.  Tell them what's going on, what's going to happen, and how much more room they'll have when it's over.

Congratulations on finding the pattern!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 07, 2020, 08:14:14 AM
Thanks for all your support Pookie. Yes I am talking about the new house and the move a lot, but I have to be careful how I do it, I am starting to realize. If I show too much emotion either way it can cause more stress.

Bottom line is it's happening and we are going to have to manage. Worrying isn't doing me any good but..well there you go lol
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 01, 2020, 08:06:41 AM
Mazy cat is now once again eating all her boiled egg yolk in one meal -her second breakfast meal.  She gets about 1/3 yolk a day (0.2 oz) and I was splitting it between 2nd breakfast and bed time. But lately she often refuses her bed time meal entirely so, even though I'd rather she had the yolk split between 2 meals, I've had to go to all at once. This has been about 3 weeks now and she seems to be doing okay with it this way.

The skipping bedtime meal - it's not a large meal so skipping it now and then isn't affecting her weight..it's probably because I've increased the fat in her diet slightly.

With me home all the time she is getting longer fasts every night instead of just on weekends, but her pattern pretty much remains the same. Every 7-10 days, sometimes longer, sometimes shorter.  She poops out masses of fur, especially now, and then suddenly there will be a poop or two with little or no fur, then I know a vomit will be coming soon. Sometimes there is fur in it, sometimes there isn't, but I know the real problem is the wad blocking her pylorus.

Can't remember if I've already said this but I do think the force of her vomits help push the fur blocking things through a little.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 03, 2020, 10:08:43 PM
Mazy cat is now down to 6 servings a day! I see I mentioned how she was often skipping that bed time meal. Concerned about weight loss I was trying to make the 2nd to last bedtime meal a bit bigger and the bed time meal even smaller, so if she skipped it it wouldn't be too much of a loss. Then one night I just mixed the two together and fed the 2nd to last meal a bit later.

This worked! So every few days I did it that way gradually working up until she was getting the combined meals every night.

She's been eating this way now for 2 weeks, so I'd say it's official, Mazy cat is now down to 6 servings a day.

So, while her vomit pattern never changes, even so, still there are improvements in other ways.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 03, 2020, 10:27:51 PM
multistars multistars multistars multistars multistars

Great job, MC and Mazy Cat!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 28, 2020, 12:35:40 AM
Still doing well on 6 meals a day, and maintaining her weight thank goodness. So important just before I turn her whole world upside down.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 11, 2020, 02:40:49 PM
Mazy cat is slipping a bit.  Her bad spells last longer and she's lost a bit of weight, not quite half a pound in the last 6 weeks. This only started in September, so I am not attributing it to the move.  There is the possibility of hyperthyroid of course, her check up and blood work is October 20.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 11, 2020, 10:51:14 PM
 :( :( :(
I hope the appointment gives you some answers!   fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 02, 2020, 05:35:25 AM
Mazy cat's blood work was all okay (including thyroid) except her liver value went up again, it's up to 147. Vet immediately blames raw diet. Ridiculous as that is, Mazy cat is still losing weight.  She is eating less, so that could be the cause, but is it the only cause. Why is she eating less?

The only diagnostics I am will to do are local. Meaning, anesthetized for x rays and a look into her mouth at the vet. I wouldn't be surprised to find that there is something going on in her bowels, years of chronic vomiting finally taking it's toll.

No specialists, no long drives to get ultrasounds or any of that.

All that matters to me is she not suffer or be in pain. I don't think she is in pain now, but how would I know? I didn't know Jennie was in pain either, but once she was on the gabapentin, it became obvious.

She eats (less), toilets, snoozes in her favorite spots, plays, plays, plays, by herself, with Queen Eva, with me.

  Vomiting pattern remains the same..every 7-10 days, sometimes longer span, sometimes shorter..  On a vomit day she doesn't want to eat at all after, so there is a whole day of meals lost every 7-10 days, and can no longer make up the deficit because she just doesn't want to eat as much.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 02, 2020, 10:27:59 AM
You've probably told me before and I forget, but just tossing this out there:  the B12 supplement that I give to Miss Kitty might be helpful.  It includes intrinsic factor so they can absorb it before it gets to the bowels.  Since Mazy's bowels have issues, it might be worth a try.  Kitty gets a full capsule in her first meal, and I add a little to each meal she gets.  Whatever they don't need, they'll pee out, so it wouldn't cause any harm.

I also don't remember if you're giving Mazy any milk thistle?

TOTALLY understand not wanting to go to specialists, long drives, etc.  The stress on Mazy just wouldn't be worth it, and it would be stressful on you as well.

When did she start eating less?  I ask because Kitty hasn't been eating as much, either, and it's interesting that they're both doing that.  Not to hijack the thread, but Kitty was eating 2 5.5 oz cans plus a small Stella & Chewy's meal daily.  Now she's eating about 1 3/4 5.5 oz cans and the S&C meals are smaller.  Could it be they're both eating less because of the weather or something like that?   :-\

 Hug1 HangInThere
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 02, 2020, 06:23:16 PM
Can you give me a link to the b you are using?  Thanks
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 03, 2020, 09:56:33 AM
Happy to share!  :)

https://www.wonderlabs.com/itemleft.php?itemnum=K9688

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 10, 2020, 01:49:32 PM
How's she doing?   Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 11, 2020, 08:16:49 PM
Up and down.  Still losing weight. Thanks for asking. I'm trying not to fuss over her. If she doesn't want to eat, I don't try to make her eat. It only backfires and she vomits anyway. Vet gave me a cerenia injection to try, but she gave it to me on the day I was in with Queen Eva (yesterday). I've been bit again and the bites on my hand are bad, plus Mazy cat is stressed out about Queen Eva smelling like vet so I haven't tried the sub q injection. It's only good when it's first made up. Tech said the injection really stings. With my bad hand (cellulitis again) and her stress, I was afraid to try to give the shot. So that was a wasted $12.

The bite was so stupid. I was doing what I'm supposed to and letting the vet and tech handle Queen Eva. Somehow she shot out of their grasp and jumped down and ran across the floor and got under the chair, and it was a knee-jerk reaction on my part I rushed to her and reached to grab her to make sure she was all right, and she bit the hell out of me.

I spent the bulk of the rest of the day yesterday sitting in my car in the urgent care parking lot waiting to be called in. I know the drill now, antibiotics, soaking, and I still have the equipment for the irrigating, so I've been doing that too. It's kept me from needing to go to the ER. My gosh that irrigating hurts.

I'm not going to be trying any miracles on Mazy cat.  I want her to just enjoy herself.  This last episode though I thought she seemed to be in some pain. The cerenia can help with pain, too. But she vomits up the cerenia tablets, that's why we were going to try the injection.

I have plenty of buprenorphine if I need it. I'm disappointed the oral cerenia doesn't help her.  I might try pepcid again though.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 11, 2020, 08:45:02 PM
I did order the B you recommended.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 12, 2020, 08:12:37 AM
:(  I'm so sorry about the bite!  I didn't know Queen Eva got that stressed at the vet.  Poor girl.  It's good that you have everything you need to treat the bite at home so at least you can avoid the ER.  How swollen is your hand?

As for Mazy,  fingerscrossed that the B12 helps her in some way.  I'm glad she feels well enough to still Chase her Tail!  grouphug  Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 13, 2020, 05:34:05 AM
My hand is doing much better this morning. I don't think I will need to irrigate again thank goodness. My gosh that hurts, pushing straight peroxide directly into a wound with a syringe!

Queen Eva does stress at the vet but she bit me because she got away from the vet and tech and I tried to grab her. If I'd just continued to stand back and let them do their job I would have been fine.

Mazy cat ate full meals on Wednesday, but skipped her bed time meal last night.  This is her pattern now, skipping a meal here and there and I am just going with it.  Trying to coax her into eating when she doesn't want to only results in her bringing it back up.

But of course she's going to continue to lose weight, but I just want her to be content and no stress. She still looks and acts herself most of the time.  I am not under any illusions, I know what happens to the inside of a cat who has been vomiting for the last 15 years, that kind of chronic inflammation takes it's toll eventually. She's 16 1/2 years old. I just want her happy and pain free.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 16, 2020, 11:23:33 AM
 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 03, 2020, 04:19:46 PM
How's Mazy cat doing?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 03, 2020, 05:03:52 PM
Mazy cat is doing pretty good thanks! She had a rough spell in October, or more than one rough patch, including some days after her vet trip (stress no doubt). I was really stressed in October too.  It seems each time she has a rough spell, it's rougher and lasts longer than the time before and I start to get that feeling that maybe this is the time she isn't going to pull out of it. But then she does.

 She's lost 3/4 of a pound but then stopped losing and has stabilized at her new weight which is 8 lbs 15 ounces. Her old weight was 9 pounds 10 ounces. 

I don't try to coax her to eat, ever, now even when I am anxious that she hasn't had enough. If she doesn't want to eat there's a reason, and if I try to force it , it all just comes back up anyway.

Recently she went 17 days between vomits and while I was happy for it, I worried about the aftermath, because you may remember for a long while after a long span vomit free she was doing really well,even after the vomit finally came, that was one of her long awaited progresses,  but then she was back to having days and days of vomiting, after a long spell. But this time she broke her span after 17 days, skipped a day, vomited again (and I thought oh no here it comes) but then she hasn't gone into the usual spiral.

Monitoring her stool gives me a good idea of when to expect the next vomit, but not always. She poops every 24-36 hours and usually the poop is furry. Then there will come a day when there is no fur in the poop and I know the fur is building up and that a vomit will follow. it is a pattern that can be followed but it isn't a given. Sometimes she'll poop out fur, and bring up a hairball, but STILL vomit her meal.

She's been on lactulose now for 15 months. When I started her on it she was only getting it 0.5 ml every three days. As is the nature of laxatives and stool softeners, she's needed that increased over time. She's still on a really low amount 0.5 ml is a tiny dose, but she now has it two days on, one day off, or sometimes ,if I find her stool really dry and hard, three days on, one day off.

My house is set up in such a way that I can keep her in the kitchen area now, after she eats until I am (mostly) sure she isn't going to bring it back up. She'd already vomited on all the rugs I bought, so many times and I was getting really frustrated. The throw size rugs are washable (with metered water now, I try to limit my usage!) but the room size rugs I bought for the living room, while (I think) really nice looking, they were cheap, meaning that don't have stain resistance treatment. Puke soaks through immediately and it takes forever for the spots to dry and my house was already starting to smell constantly of cat puke.. I have to move all the furniture to lift the rugs off the floor and the house is in chaos for days waiting for it to dry.

So I started blocking the arch way between the kitchen and living room with a screen. I have the kitchen and bathroom,  and a window for her to sit in front of (I open it so she can get some air right after she eats). Queen Eva can jump up to the half wall of the arch way, so she is not contained to the area if she doesn't want to be, but Mazy cat can't jump that high.

It caused some stress for her at first but she's gotten used to it now. I didn't like restricting her that way, but I was turning into a crazy maniac dealing with the puking on the rugs.  One time, after a bad night with no sleep (work was really really bad at this time as well) I found myself chasing her around the room, throwing furniture out of the way and screaming, (and I mean SCREAMING, I'd never heard that sound come out of my lungs before) "not on the rug not on the rug!".

I was horrified when I came to my senses! Poor Mazy cat! She ran away from me and puked at the same time so it went every where. It was then I knew I had to do something to keep her off the rugged areas after she eats.

But (aside from the loss of her porch) she really loves this house. I can tell. I still feel really sad about taking her porch away from her, but she's adjusted and has her favorite spots.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 06, 2020, 05:18:12 PM
Quote
It caused some stress for her at first but she's gotten used to it now. I didn't like restricting her that way, but I was turning into a crazy maniac dealing with the puking on the rugs.  One time, after a bad night with no sleep (work was really really bad at this time as well) I found myself chasing her around the room, throwing furniture out of the way and screaming, (and I mean SCREAMING, I'd never heard that sound come out of my lungs before) "not on the rug not on the rug!".

I was horrified when I came my senses! Poor Mazy cat! She ran away from me and puked at the same time so it went every where. It was then I knew I had to do something to keep her off the rugged areas after she eats.

If it makes you feel any better, you're not alone.  I lived like that for years with Pookie and Bonnie.  My carpet is wall-to-wall, so there's no lifting it, but OxyClean in a spray bottle was my friend.  Sometimes the stains just didn't come out.  After both of them were gone, I had the carpet cleaned and it looked great, but then Kitty came to live with me and now it's stained again, both from vomit, hairballs and the fact that she uses it for toilet paper and scoots.  Living room, top of the stairs, just outside the bathroom that was her first room.  I've given up.  At least it's old carpet, but it's very depressing to see it look like that when it had looked so nice before.  But, this is the price we pay for living with special needs kitties.  There are times I get REALLY angry and yell and scream, because it's just so frustrating, esp. when you do all you can and it doesn't seem to be enough.  After I calm down I have to remind myself that it's not her fault, she can't help it, etc.  But I totally relate to your situation.

I'm glad she seems to have stabilized with her meals and weight.  If I remember correctly, you sort have have a little porch on this house.  If so, will you be enclosing that at some point, too?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 06, 2020, 06:21:32 PM
Thanks Pookie. I am already used to to living like this. Mazy cat has been puking her whole life. My entire apartment reeked of old cat puke along with the mildew smells. Eventually she trained herself to puke downstairs on the cardboard I put out over the concrete floor, but still sometimes puked on the old smelly apartment carpet. 

The little porch is my entry and exit. I cat-proofed it with deer fence and a gate in case they inadvertently ever got out that door.  It is not suitable for them to use.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 08, 2020, 05:27:03 AM
It's awful to feel so frustrated and helpless isn't it? And then pile on the guilt feelings afterwards for yelling. The cats seem to take it in stride though, I guess they are used to living with a maniac lol. However, I'd never screamed like THAT before. It was frustration borne of many things, no sleep, work stress, it was right after my sister died, there was a lot going on I guess.

Last night she had her not unexpected puke, (10 days span) safely on the kitchen floor, since I now keep her in the kitchen for 10-15 minutes after she eats.  No chasing no screaming, I simply cleaned it up.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 08, 2020, 04:04:06 PM
It's awful to feel so frustrated and helpless isn't it? And then pile on the guilt feelings afterwards for yelling. The cats seem to take it in stride though, I guess they are used to living with a maniac lol. However, I'd never screamed like THAT before. It was frustration borne of many things, no sleep, work stress, it was right after my sister died, there was a lot going on I guess.

Bingo!  When you're doing everything you can, even knowing there may not be a "cure," and it still doesn't seem to be "enough," it just gets to be overwhelming and frustrating.  The night I posted that, I got very angry and upset because Kitty decided that my fried chicken smelled so good that she wasn't going to her food.  It's not like she can afford to lose weight, and I yelled.  I've decided since then that I just can't jump through any more hoops.  I'll keep doing what I'm doing (and hopefully I'll get to update her thread at some point) but beyond that, I just can't.  I'm already juggling a bunch of things and can't take on more.

Last night she had her not unexpected puke, (10 days span) safely on the kitchen floor, since I now keep her in the kitchen for 10-15 minutes after she eats.  No chasing no screaming, I simply cleaned it up.

 thumbsup1  I'm glad you've found a way to manage that.  I couldn't do that with Pookie or Bonnie.  There was no rhyme or reason as to when they'd vomit or regurgitate.  Of course, I was free-feeding kibble yuk at the time, and had I known better (and sooner), that would have made a HUGE difference.  My floor plan makes it difficult to close off rooms, anyway.  But it's great you've found something that works for you!   thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 19, 2020, 08:33:07 AM


 thumbsup1  I'm glad you've found a way to manage that.  I couldn't do that with Pookie or Bonnie.  There was no rhyme or reason as to when they'd vomit or regurgitate.  Of course, I was free-feeding kibble yuk at the time, and had I known better (and sooner), that would have made a HUGE difference.  My floor plan makes it difficult to close off rooms, anyway.  But it's great you've found something that works for you!   thumbsup1


Mazy cat's vomits would be considered regurgitation because of when they come, IF she didn't have the forceful contractions while doing it. But regurgitation is the food just coming back up with no visible effort, which is not what she does. If she doesn't puke within 15 minutes, USUALLY after that I know she won't.

The screen is working well, and I've found a way I think to make her less anxious about it. I set the timer on the microwave. When it beeps, I move the screen. After only a couple times she started making the connection. Now she knows to wait for the long beep and she'll be let through. I think it helps her, cats just do better with routine.

She didn't lose any weight this week and in fact went up half an ounce. 8 pounds 13 ounces.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 22, 2020, 12:15:42 PM
That's great that she gained a little weight!  dancingbanana
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 10, 2021, 12:32:21 PM
8 pounds 12 ounces this morning.  She just doesn't want to eat as much. No point in trying to coax her, it will just come back up.  She's still as active as ever though. Loves to thunder around the house, and play play play!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 11, 2021, 09:53:48 AM
8 pounds 12 ounces this morning.  She just doesn't want to eat as much. No point in trying to coax her, it will just come back up.  She's still as active as ever though. Loves to thunder around the house, and play play play!

  thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1

As long as she's happy.  She probably knows that eating more will make her sick, and maybe this is her "new normal."  She's eating, she's playing, and she's happy.  All good things!  :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 30, 2021, 07:29:55 AM
Mazy cat continues to hover in the 8 lb 10-11-12 oz range. Last week she was 8 lb 10, this week 8 lb 11. She's doing great, thundering around the house, very happy and well, vomiting following it's usual patterns, though the bad episodes often last up to 3 days now.

Al in all I am content with her. bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 30, 2021, 10:00:55 AM
As long as she's happy and thundering, all's good.   thumbsup1  DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy

BTW, would love to see a video of her thundering . . .  :D
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 23, 2021, 05:28:08 AM
Mazy cat has dropped a couple more ounces over the past 10 weeks, down to 8 lbs 8 1/2 ounces. Still doing great. Can't get a video of the thundering around the house, they are too fast. It wold make you sea sick anyway lol.

I am suspecting some kidney insufficiency now, her coat is getting a bit of a rough look to it. Her 6 month check up is April 6 so I will soon know.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 29, 2021, 09:17:41 AM
Please let us know how her check-up goes.   fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 06, 2021, 06:17:02 AM
Mazy cat is down to 8 lbs 6 ounces.  She just can't eat enough to keep the weight on and her vomiting is more frequent as well. I am resigned to the changes, at 17 and all her years of struggles, I don't expect any more improvements.  I just want her to continue to have a happy life and feel good for as long as she can.

I had to reschedule her check up because I was in quarantine after a double direct exposure to covid (had to reschedule a lot of things, including my second vac, my new washer delivery, car service etc)

Her appointment isn't until May 26.

She is still active and playing and thundering around the house, but does have some low days here and there.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on May 10, 2021, 09:15:50 AM
Just tossing this out there, as it's possible that it's helping Kitty:  bovine colostrum.  It has a lot of nutrients, is easy to absorb, and it can help with intestinal issues.  Even if it doesn't, it might give her some extra nutrition to make up for the fewer meals.

I know you're very cautious about what you give her, but wanted to share it with you as a possible "supplement" that shouldn't be much of an issue, since all animals get colostrum at birth (though not usually from cows).

Meanwhile:  HangInThere.  At least she's still playing and having fun!   thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on May 28, 2021, 05:40:35 AM
Mazy cat had her 6 month check up on Wednesday, 2 months overdue.  Vet honed in on the weight loss (just half a pound) even though I told her I'm monitoring and it's just because she can't eat as much any more. When she vomits, she can't make up the deficit either. So the weight loss is inevitable, but I don't see it as some big problem. Shes 17! She's struggled with this IBD all her life. I am not going to worry about this. My vet never stops trying to get me off the raw feeding, I guess it's just something she feels she must do.

Anyway she called with the blood results last night and everything is looking really good!  Her ALT (liver) actually went down, it's 117 now (100 is high normal). Everything else is in normal range except her BUN is slightly elevated. I suggested I pick up a sterile bottle and bring in a urine sample to check USG etc.

With Mazy cat, she never stops amazing me. I never dreamed I'd have her this long, and doing so well!  I told the vet if it weren't for her anal glands I wouldn't even bring her to the vet any more, it stresses her so, it takes a lot out of her, but she does recover. Last night she was thundering around the house just like normal.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on May 30, 2021, 11:32:41 AM
That's great news about her test results, esp. the ALT going down!  I'm so glad to hear she was Thundering again.  :)  It's a shame about the vet being so against raw feeding, esp. considering how well your cats do on it.  You'd think she'd realize that it's not causing any problems and they are healthier because of it, but I guess some people just don't want to see what's right in front of them.

17 years!  Wow, that's wonderful!  You do know that's because of the care that you've given her, right?  And I bet she knows that, too. :)

Enjoy the thundering!   kittybutterfly
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 07, 2021, 03:19:05 PM
Mazy cat continues to  amaze  :D

Had to collect a urine sample.  It's just a narrow tube, sterile. She got in the box and started to pee, I popped the tube behind her and she peed right in. Got some on my hands too, but what the heck pee is sterile too. I couldn't get the lid back on tight and worried all the way to the vet that it would spill.

And reminded them10 times when I brought it in that the lid wasn't on tight.

This is an old video taken for demonstration purposes, but it's the same process for us, all these years later.

https://youtu.be/VLrq-E8iRCM

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 12, 2021, 09:34:44 AM
Everything looks pretty good for a cat of 17! USG is fine, well concentrated. A bit of protein in there, we'll recheck in 6 months. In her blood work, her BUN was just a bit over high normal is why I suggested we do the urine culture. I won't be putting Mazy cat through any "keep her as long as I can" hoops, so all this is really just for information purposes. She's been through enough in her life, and cannot tolerate frequent vet trips.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on June 14, 2021, 10:06:03 AM
 thumbsup1  I'm glad she's doing well!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 03, 2021, 08:06:45 AM
Mazy cat has gained some weight! She's up to 8 lb 9 1/2 ounces (after pee) !!!!!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 06, 2021, 09:42:07 AM
dancingbanana   dancingbanana BanWooHoo bananamiddlechild multistars coolgif2   thumbsup1

How'd you do it?  Were you giving her extra meals or slighter more food per meal?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 09, 2021, 08:42:08 AM
dancingbanana   dancingbanana BanWooHoo bananamiddlechild multistars coolgif2   thumbsup1

How'd you do it?  Were you giving her extra meals or slighter more food per meal?

None of the above. :).  There is no getting "extra" into Mazy cat any more. She can only eat what she can eat. I feed her her normal amounts at each meal and she eats what she can of it, and whatever she leaves gets scooped into the next meal and so on throughout the day. Feeding extra meals, or trying to coax her to finish inevitably results in her vomiting it all back up, and likely as not the last meal too. She calls the shots. So when she gains weight, it's because she has felt well enough to eat more that week.

She's lost an ounce and a half of that weight gain in this past week. I did give a thought to the "why" of the sudden weight gain and wondered if it was just an extra hairball in her gut at the time of weighing.

Possible I suppose, but then I reminded myself that she always has wads of fur in her gut so I'm not sure how much fluctuation it could cause.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 09, 2021, 03:32:18 PM
None of the above. :).  There is no getting "extra" into Mazy cat any more. She can only eat what she can eat. I feed her her normal amounts at each meal and she eats what she can of it, and whatever she leaves gets scooped into the next meal and so on throughout the day. Feeding extra meals, or trying to coax her to finish inevitably results in her vomiting it all back up, and likely as not the last meal too. She calls the shots. So when she gains weight, it's because she has felt well enough to eat more that week.

Thanks for the explanation; that makes sense.  I remember that there were limits to what she could eat or else she would vomit, which is why I was wondering how you did it.  I'm glad she felt well enough to eat more that week.   thumbsup1  I don't know if a hairball would affect her weight that much, but who knows?   :-\
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 09, 2021, 05:31:33 PM
Thanks for the explanation; that makes sense.  I remember that there were limits to what she could eat or else she would vomit, which is why I was wondering how you did it.  I'm glad she felt well enough to eat more that week.   thumbsup1  I don't know if a hairball would affect her weight that much, but who knows?   :-\

I know. But while fur itself isn't heavy, wadded up with fat and fluid, they do weigh a couple ounces I think. In fact I think I'll weigh the next one she brings up. :D
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 11, 2021, 08:50:20 AM
Slight change in the feeding routine coming up. Yesterday morning I realized I'd forgotten to boil eggs, so Mazy cat didn't get her egg yolk for second breakfast. instead I had to redistribute meal serving weights and give it to her in a different meal.  this went over well, so I'm going to try it that way for a while and see if it works for her.

In other news I have found and ordered her a little window box.  It's not very big, and wildly expensive, but I am just so desperate to give her something, anything, to make up for the loss of her porch. She had stopped asking for it, but she's asking again. She loves her windows, but she knows she's missing something.

They are made to order so it will take a while to get here. But it's designed to not have to be fastened to anything, (it's like a window AC, the window frame holds it in place) and it's lightweight, so I can put it in and take it out of the window, any window,  as suitable.

https://catswithanaltitude.com/index.html

I had to get the small 18 inch size, to fit my window and I opted for the flaps rather than the plexiglass with the cat door. I think the cat door would be too small for Mazy cat to manage, and I probably won't bother with the flaps, since I intend to just take it out of the window when not in use. She already has a perch on the kitchen window so she should be able to just walk right into the little space.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 11, 2021, 06:34:20 PM
That's really cool!  I hope it comes soon(er rather than later) and Mazy loves it!  You're a good Mom.  :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 11, 2021, 08:07:03 PM
Thanks. Well I'd love to have one of those big attached to the house and window runs you see people building and posting their pictures on the internet. But I don't know who to ask to do something like that for me, and it isn't in the budget right now anyway. $221 I can handle. Lumber is sky high right now, and I expect any decent carpenter would charge a good fee to do it. Besides, I like that this is portable. I can move it from window to window even.

Mazy cat likes to be where I am, so when I'm in the living room I can put it in the bedroom window so she can still see me from her window, like she can now. When I'm in the kitchen I can put it in the kitchen window.

I notice, even when she appears to be in a deep sleep she sleeps with her face toward me. If I get up and move to a different part of the room, within a few minutes she has moved so her face is again pointing toward me, even though she looks like she hasn't woken up in hours.

Some of these are great, but if you have to pay someone to do it......

https://www.wcmanet.org/diy-catio/
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 12, 2021, 08:43:43 AM
I notice, even when she appears to be in a deep sleep she sleeps with her face toward me. If I get up and move to a different part of the room, within a few minutes she has moved so her face is again pointing toward me, even though she looks like she hasn't woken up in hours.

AWWWW!!!   CatHug CatHug
Quote
Some of these are great, but if you have to pay someone to do it......

https://www.wcmanet.org/diy-catio/

Wow!

Miss Kitty is mostly a floor dweller and doesn't go up on the furniture (unless I'm eating, in which case she gets on the arm of the recliner to smell and try to steal).  There's a small kitty condo by the living room window and she's never gone up on it.  But I'm betting Mazy will love her new present when it comes!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 15, 2021, 06:00:55 AM
Well Mazy cat gave me a timely hairball, a big one. And it only weighed 0.28 ounces, so I can rest assured that internal hairballs really don't make that much difference when the cat is weighed.

When she gains an ounce, it's a real gain. :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 15, 2021, 09:16:15 AM
 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1  DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy DrLisaPiersonWorthy
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 17, 2021, 09:09:28 AM
Mazy cat weighed in at 8 pounds 9 ounces again and this was after a pee and a poop! I'm so pleased. I keep telling her I've got a little "window box" coming for her so hang in there! I had told the manufacturer of these her story, about losing her porch. I was hoping to soften his heart  to bumping our order up in his queue so she could have it earlier. No word yet, but it's not been quite a week and they did say 4-6 weeks.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 17, 2021, 09:12:00 AM
 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed  that it comes quickly!  HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 18, 2021, 09:28:55 AM
Mazy cat is on a 17 day span. Her last one that went this long was in May.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 20, 2021, 05:48:28 AM
19 days! bananamiddlechild

She'll probably end it at lunch time today, just when I'm in a hurry to get them fed and behind their screen door before the exterminator comes.  (Maybe predicting it will make it not happen   Silly7)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 20, 2021, 08:08:53 AM
Good luck!  fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 20, 2021, 01:15:10 PM
Thanks I was right, she threw up her lunch and a great big wad of fur.  Annoyingly there is no sign of the exterminator. I thought I had finally gotten lucky with this guy, the other two were unreliable as heck, but he's been johnny on the spot for 4 months. Until Today.  bangshead Doh1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 20, 2021, 03:34:19 PM
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 20, 2021, 07:27:44 PM
She had a big furry poop later, too. Maybe she's cleared out for the time being.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 20, 2021, 07:55:19 PM
 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 24, 2021, 10:46:56 AM
Mazy cat is following her usual pattern after a long vomit free spell. She went 19 days, then brought up her lunch with a huge fur wad on Tuesday. The next day, Wednesday, was normal, with some very furry poop. The second day (Thursday) again she brought up her lunch with a huge wad.  The third day (Friday) not only did she bring up her breakfast with another wad (smaller) but she refused lunch, then threw up her 5 pm meal (no fur).  When it comes to that, is when I stop feeding her.

She had no more food Friday, just a big blob of slippery elm bark mixed with George's aloe at bed time. I swipe the blob into her mouth and wash it down with a couple of syringes of water. What is amazing to me is that she allows me to do this and doesn't even run from me when I go get the second syringe of water. She's a pro!

So far today all meals are staying down and she had a small poop first thing this morning. This does not mean we are over the episode, as it can drag on for a few more days, but there is always hope.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 25, 2021, 09:03:59 AM
Mazy cat has lost 3 ounces in this last episode, she didn't want anything to eat last night or the night before. No point in coaxing her, she'll just bring it back up. I hope she is over it now, and will go back to her normal eating.

I wish her window box would come soon. he said 4-6 weeks but somehow I was hoping he was estimating wide, so to prevent a lot of messages asking where it is, and that it would come sooner. It's been 2 weeks.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 25, 2021, 08:08:05 PM
Mazy cat got up and asked for supper tonight and ate .76 ounces and kept it down. bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on July 26, 2021, 08:54:37 AM
Mazy cat got up and asked for supper tonight and ate .76 ounces and kept it down. bananamiddlechild

 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on July 31, 2021, 06:23:14 PM
I'm so relieved that Mazy cat's recent bad spell was so short. She went 8 days again without bringing up a meal, and put back on 2 of the 3 ounces she had lost during the bad episode.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on August 02, 2021, 11:58:54 AM
dancingbanana  thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on August 04, 2021, 05:38:23 AM
Got an update e mail on Mazy cat's window box yesterday. Shipping out on Thursday he said!  I'll be getting a tracking number which is important, because it's being delivered to home and my front porch is right on the sidewalk. I worry about theft, it's a busy street, pedestrian wise.

I've asked that deliveries be brought to the back porch (it would be easier for them anyway, as the side road is a dead end street with no traffic) but the idiots refuse to deliver to the back porch. My neighbor, who has a similar set up has the same problem and has had things stolen.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on August 28, 2021, 07:48:42 AM
The window box is not a hit. She says it's too small. Queen Eva likes it when the weather is cool enough and there is some sun, but she won't stay in it if I don't stay right in the kitchen. Even Queen Eva, tiny as she is, can't sit up right in it.

 Oh well, I had to try. Maybe the next cat will like it.  The thing is, they already have their habits with their windows established. Mazy cat stopped getting on her perch all together when I left it in the window.

I'll try again in the fall, right now it's so hot and humid all the time I almost never have the windows open anyway.

Mazy cat is struggling with some diarrhea. She is not normally prone to it, but I was treating her ears and looking back I realized the last time I treated her ears she had the same thing.

So I won't be using the entederm on her again. Ever. I've doubled up on the s.boulardii and cut back on her egg yolk and lactulose until she normalizes. It's a tricky thing though because I don't want her ending up constipated either.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on September 01, 2021, 04:19:16 PM
 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 06, 2021, 02:39:19 PM
Mazy cat is over her intestinal issue I think. Back on her normal diet with usual supplements. On nice fall-ish days when I am home I put the window box in the window for a few hours. Sometimes one or the other will get in it for a little while.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on September 06, 2021, 05:13:48 PM
I'm glad she's feeling better!  I was also wondering if you were going to return the window box but it sounds like you're going to keep it.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 06, 2021, 09:00:16 PM
They don't take returns. I got a follow up e mail from him to ask how it was going and I told him so far it wasn't and he suggested I sell it, that it would go quickly. I said no, I'll keep it and continue to offer it to them. I don't regret buying it. Even if they never really take to it, who knows, the next cat might. If I hadn't bought it I'd still be wondering.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 14, 2021, 01:36:23 PM
I invited Mazy cat to poop before I fed her lunch. I knew she was due. She declined.  She ate her lunch then promptly threw it up-no fur.  Then went back to the litter box and had a furry poop. I have been convinced for many years that the contractions from vomiting help move her bowels along.

I'm sure I've mentioned it a time or two in this thread over the last 5 years. ;D

So on we go.  HeadButt

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on September 16, 2021, 04:30:32 PM
I invited Mazy cat to poop before I fed her lunch. I knew she was due. She declined.  She ate her lunch then promptly threw it up-no fur.  Then went back to the litter box and had a furry poop. I have been convinced for many years that the contractions from vomiting help move her bowels along.

I'm sure I've mentioned it a time or two in this thread over the last 5 years. ;D

So on we go.  HeadButt

I agree with you about the contractions from vomiting helping to move her bowels.  Too bad that she had to vomit her lunch before she could poop, but what can you do?  It is what it is.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 17, 2021, 04:35:54 AM
I agree with you about the contractions from vomiting helping to move her bowels.  Too bad that she had to vomit her lunch before she could poop, but what can you do?  It is what it is.

Exactly!  HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 20, 2021, 05:16:10 PM
Mazy cat drank water from the water bowl today. 🙁  I saw her at the bowl yesterday, sniffing at it but she didn't drink. Tonight she drank.  It's not unexpected, considering her elevated BUN in May, but of course I always hoped it wouldn't come to this.  I will not be doing sub q with her. She would absolutely hate that.

We won't be able to take her blood pressure, but I'll call the vet and see if she wants another urine sample to check USG. Mazy cat isn't due for blood work and check up until the end of November. I don't think there is any point in bringing her in any earlier, I don't intend to do anything different.  If her phos is elevated, I might try niacinamide, but I am not going to torture Mazy cat with numerous daily pillings and stuff like that.

Some cats can handle it. To Mazy it would be torture.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on September 24, 2021, 05:02:59 AM
Haven't seen her at the water bowl since then. Whew.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on September 27, 2021, 09:34:06 AM
 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed

I didn't know that niacinimide could lower phos.  If it came to that, you could open a capsule and mix it in her food rather than having to pill her.

 Hug1 HangInThere
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 06, 2021, 05:24:47 AM
Mazy cat's arthritis is catching up to the GLM after all these years. I've asked my friend to start Reiki for her and she recommends a cbd product to be used transdermally. I think it's her spondylosis that's causing most of the trouble. I've been resistant to the idea in the past, but I think I might give it a try.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 07, 2021, 12:38:00 PM
She's in her late teens now, right?  At this point, it might be worth a try.   Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 07, 2021, 01:20:29 PM
Approximately 17 1/2!  Never dreamed I'd have her this long. Back in the day if I thought about it, I expected to be with Jennie and Queen Eva about now.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on October 20, 2021, 07:37:32 AM
Mazy cat is getting skinnier, she's down to 8 lb 3 oz because she just can't make up for the bad days any more. She's wobbly on her hind end a lot more and I'm seeing her at the water bowl, drinking, but only on the days when she isn't eating.

She's getting Reiki for her arthritis and that has make a great deal of difference in her activity level at least. For a while she was hardly moving at all.

She'll have her usual 6 month check up and blood work in 6 weeks, but I don't plan to put her through any saving measures as far as the advancing kidney disease. I know sub q fluids might make her feel better, but I know even more what she can tolerate and sub q is not going to happen.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on October 29, 2021, 11:15:42 AM
 :(  I'm so sorry.  GoodVibes grouphug

You're doing all you can for her.  She's loved and cared for, and sometimes that's the best we can do.

HangInThere  GoodVibes grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 04, 2021, 06:36:50 AM
Thanks Pookie. Well, she's doing all right for her age. I just worry about her pain level. I can see the hitch in her left hip when she makes certain movements, and she shakes her left front paw sometimes then goes at it, licking it, so I think there might be some pain in the wrist joint there too.

Any other cat I would have taken her in for an extra visit, but I don't like to do that, with Mazy cat, it's just so hard on her. Her appointment is Dec 1.

Right now she's on an upswing with eating and vomiting and pooping, all is happening as it should. Vomiting only once a week I mean, poops are coming out without too much straining and always have some fur, eating enough to keep her weight steady, though she isn't regaining any. Still at 8 pounds 3 ounces.

When she eats well I never see her at the water bowl, so that's good too, if her diet is still meeting her water needs, I think her kidney disease can't be too far advanced.

I only care about her quality of life, I know you know that, but I worry about Queen Eva, when that time comes, so I coddle her and hope she can keep going without a lot of pain for a good long time.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 05, 2021, 10:05:36 AM
Thanks for the update!  Do you think bumping up the GLM would help with the arthritis/inflammation?   Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 05, 2021, 01:28:09 PM
Thanks for the update!  Do you think bumping up the GLM would help with the arthritis/inflammation?   Hug1

Thanks Pookie.

She's already on the maximum therapeutic dose for her weight. Her digestion tolerates it, just, but it does make her a bit urpy as it is.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 06, 2021, 07:53:20 AM
Weigh day - Aside from a vomit day on Monday (day 6) She's been eating all her meals and finishing them so I did hope there would be some gain, and there is!

Mazy cat gained 2 ounces this week. bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 09, 2021, 04:55:48 PM
She's already on the maximum therapeutic dose for her weight. Her digestion tolerates it, just, but it does make her a bit urpy as it is.

 :(

Weigh day - Aside from a vomit day on Monday (day 6) She's been eating all her meals and finishing them so I did hope there would be some gain, and there is!

Mazy cat gained 2 ounces this week. bananamiddlechild

multistars multistars multistars  thumbsup1  DrLisaPiersonWorthy
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 14, 2021, 08:43:13 AM
Down to 8 lbs, 1 1/2 ounces after a rough few days.  Every episode I worry it's going to be the one she doesn't come out of but so far, every time she passes that lodged fur and rallies.

When she vomits more than once and/or stops eating all together, I stop feeding her. I let her system settle, then I give her a blob of SEB mixed with George's aloe (the latex is removed in this brand, so it's safe for cats). I chase it with a syringe of water. If, the next day she still doesn't want to eat (as happened this time) I give it to her again.

These days, because of her kidneys starting to decline, on the days she doesn't eat, I do see her at the water bowl on occasion. She doesn't drink a lot at one time, but she drinks, which she never has done, until the last 6 months or so.

Once the wad of fur that is blocking the pylorus finally passes through she starts to eat again, and soon is back to normal, though she doesn't gain back all the weight lost, so she continues to get skinnier.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 19, 2021, 05:25:28 PM
 :(  GoodVibes grouphug grouphug grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 20, 2021, 08:09:40 AM
Thanks Pookie. She's back on the upswing again. Gained a couple ounces, 8 lbs 3 1/2 ounces. I know her kidneys are failing, but she's 17 1/2 years old, it's not unexpected. As long as she's comfortable.

I try not to worry too much about Queen Eva, after Mazy cat leaves. It will just have to be got through. But not yet, Mazy cat is still having a Thunder Around the House now and then and playing her games and enjoying her Sunbeams.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 23, 2021, 05:31:18 PM
I try not to worry too much about Queen Eva, after Mazy cat leaves. It will just have to be got through. But not yet, Mazy cat is still having a Thunder Around the House now and then and playing her games and enjoying her Sunbeams.

 thumbsup1   funny2   Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 27, 2021, 11:55:05 AM
Mazy cat's arthritis is going beyond the help the green lipped mussel (GLM) has provided for her the last 4 years. Her IBD episodes (vomiting, inappetence) are more frequent and last longer and she loses a little weight with each one. These days I can't feed her extra to help her regain what's lost, she just can't eat enough.

I have many "tricks" at my disposal to help her through these periods, but time stops for no cat.

So, as comes to most cats, if they are lucky, she's becoming a spindly old lady! I am so happy to care for her, I haven't had an oldie since Ootay (2009), having lost both Tolly (2011) and Jennie (2019) to cancer when they were each just past 12.

Now we're at that crossroads, how to control pain to give her a decent quality of life, if possible, without exacerbating her issues of now failing kidneys, and the chronic slightly elevated ALT (liver).

Aside from opioid drugs or tramadol, the only answer seems to be steroids. I am not worried about this, though my vet is. Vet keeps worrying about the side effects. I say: but aren't the side effects of steroids generally from long term use? Mazy cat is 17 1/2, I don't think we have to worry about that. Vet said that once in a while, rarely but it does happen, a cat will develop diabetes after a few months on the steroid. I said well that's a chance I'll take. Quality of life is what matters here. And she's been on a zero carb diet for almost 10 years.

A low dose of steroids will help her a lot I am hoping. It will help her arthritis pain and stiffness, reducing inflammation, improving mobility. It will help her IBD, reducing inflammation in the bowel, perhaps even improving her motility?

If she is having any discomfort in her mouth, the steroids will help that too. There isn't any way to look into her mouth when she is awake and vet refuses to anesthetize her for this important health exam unless absolutely necessary, (such as showing symptoms of mouth pain, or combining various other diagnostics at the same time) so we have no idea what her mouth looks like.

Mazy cat likes the heating pad. She's actually letting me cover her! I only cover her hips. I wait until she is settled and warm on the heating pad which is under the down throw. I cover her hips with a corner of the pink blanket and then turn the heating pad off. I don't like to leave it on, even on low, because she sleeps in one position for hours now. Even on low the risk of a burn is too high. Once she's warm and covered she stays warm. If she stays there for over an hour I'll pet her and encourage her to change position, then turn the pad on again and repeat the process.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 29, 2021, 02:56:58 PM
Awwww . . . . love the pics!  Thanks for sharing!

Just out of curiosity, would she eat cooked egg white?  I remember that it's a way of giving extra protein without adding to the stress on her kidneys, but wasn't sure if she would eat it or if her system would tolerate it.

And I totally understand where you're coming from regarding the steroids.  While personally I'm not a fan, at this stage of her life it's about keeping her as comfortable as possible and having the best quality of life she can have.  "We do the best we can . . . " Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 29, 2021, 04:14:33 PM
Thanks Pookie. Egg white isn't meant to be extra protein, it is meant to replace some of the meat protein in the diet, to reduce phosphorous, because meat is high in phosphorous. So the theory is to reduce the meat without reducing the protein, by adding egg white.

Mazy cat does not have elevated phosphorous (so far), so her diet doesn't need to be tweaked. If she does end up needing her meat protein reduced, I will cut back and fill in with fat.  No she won't eat egg white, I've already tried in a sort of practice run, a few times over the years. :)

I ordered a transdermal CBD cream made for pets, recommended to me by her Reiki provider. M says her 22 year old cat has been on it for 4 years and the change has been very dramatic.

Mazy cat's appointment is Wednesday morning.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 02, 2021, 04:38:49 PM
Sorry, just saw this.  How did the appointment go?

Also, when you have time, I'd be curious what your friend used the CBD for specifically (e.g. pain, stress, etc.) and what changes she saw (if you have that info and are willing to share).

I was wondering if CBD would help Kitty if she should have to see a vet again, which she will if she still needs the pred.  So that's why I'm asking.   :)  I'm not sure I'm totally comfortable with using it, but my options with Kitty are limited.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 03, 2021, 05:26:35 AM
I'm not sure how I feel about using it either Pookie,  for Mazy cat, but I'm starting to feel like she's entering that "nothing to lose" stage. I want her to be free of pain, or at least have less pain. Steroids are one option, rather, the only vet/medical option because of her failing kidneys and liver disease, there isn't any other safe medication.

M uses the Myderma for her elderly cat for arthritis pain. She rescued the cat when she was about 16 I think. As M got to know Sassy she realized she was suffering quite a bit of arthritis pain, hardly moved and didn't have a great appetite. According to M, the Myderma CBD for pets has given Sassy a second youth. She became active and filled out and hasn't looked back for the 4 years she's been using it.

I myself have also succumb to the craze and am using a CBD "gummy" now.  I THINK they help me. If it's a placebo effect, I don't really care, because placebo or not, it appears to be helping me. Not a lot, but it does seem to take the edge off the pain when I am feeling acute. It might be helping me sleep a little better too. I've been playing around with the dose, I have 25 mg gummies, and 10 mg gummies.

How I got started with it was a year ago someone told me they were using a topical CBD for their restless legs.  I had just had a local friend ask me if I wanted a bottle of CBD oil formulated for sleep, unopened, her adult son had bought it and didn't want it after all. This bottle was made for taking internally but I used it to rub on the backs of my knees to help with restless legs, and to my astonishment it actually works!

The bottle lasted almost a year then I had to order another. When they sent my new order they sent a sample of the gummies, 10 10 mg gummies.  At first I shrugged it off but then one day I was in terrible pain, my legs, so I tentatively took one.  Then I forgot about it, but half an hour later I noticed my legs felt better, and that night I slept 3 hours straight.  Could have been a fluke. Maybe. But I ordered more, and I am experimenting with dosing as I said. They aren't cheap, but I wait for sales and when the sales stop I can go on subscription and save that way. The contain no THC.

Back to Mazy cat.  She was very brave at this appointment. this is long I'll start another post.....

EDIT well phooey I've just looked at the clock.  Mazy cat's update will have to wait ...
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 03, 2021, 04:07:51 PM
Thanks for the info. on the CBD!  My mother uses the gummies, too, for her back pain, and it seems to help.  I'm glad it's helping you, too.  I'm a bit less concerned with it's use in people than I am with use on/in cats.  I'll be interested to hear what results Mazy gets.

I've probably asked you this, but don't remember:  do you give Mazy milk thistle for liver support?

I look forward to the vet update.   :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 04, 2021, 09:34:28 AM
Thanks for the info. on the CBD!  My mother uses the gummies, too, for her back pain, and it seems to help.  I'm glad it's helping you, too.  I'm a bit less concerned with it's use in people than I am with use on/in cats.  I'll be interested to hear what results Mazy gets.

I've probably asked you this, but don't remember:  do you give Mazy milk thistle for liver support?

I look forward to the vet update.   :)

Mazy cat takes Denosyl (Sam-e)  Her ALT is always right around 105, sometimes it goes up to 124 (highest). It's not something that has ever really concerned me, though it bothers the vet. High normal for cats is 100, so she isn't that high, and I really think this is just a normal number for her. But of course I don't want to be giving her any meds that might make things worse.

Do you know when Queen Eva was there the week before, she asked me about Queen Eva's diet.  I'd been ready for this and started to tell her that Queen Eva is just over 2/3 raw, with the remaining meals about half and half home cooked and half canned (processed). But I started with the raw portions and she stopped listening before I was able to finish my comment. :(

Mazy cat was a very brave girl at the vet.  I had asked Tolly to peek in and help her out, and I think he did.  However (though they would never admit it) I know I impressed vet and tech during Mazy cat's exam:  They cover her with a towel and the tech is wearing the heavy bite-proof gloves. I stand back and let them do their job, but to let Mazy cat know I'm there I sang her song softly to her. I did this in the hopes to quiet her growling, because how can the vet hear her heart and lungs with all that noise going on? lol.   It worked, by way of lowering the volume of the growls and reducing the frequency of them.

I expect they had a harder time of it when they take her back to the clinical area to take her blood and express her anal glands. I heard a few Mazy cat shouts, but it's to be expected.  Vet also suggested a shot of cerenia and I agreed.  This was when I told vet she wouldn't eat the rest of the day because even if I try to feed her, it will come right back up. It's the stress that does it. Vet offered the cerenia, in case her issue is nausea, but also because cerenia is a pain reliever as well.

I saw some side effects, she seemed a little more restless than usual, pacing and very wobbly.

Vet wasn't really happy with my suggestion that I might start her on a transdermal cbd cream. I knew she wouldn't be, she is definitely not into the holistic approach! EVER. It's so odd because you know she used to be. When I first started with her, in 2005, she was very open to alternative ideas, including raw feeding. It's one of the reasons I chose her.  But she's been brainwashed by years of  Big Pet Food and Big Pharma agenda.

She did ask me to send her the link to what I propose using, so that's something!

~more~

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 04, 2021, 09:46:21 AM
Regarding the cerenia injection. I've tried her on the tablets, but she vomits them right back up. I thought it was worth a try to know how she would cope with the injection method. Cerenia offers pain relief as well as relief from nausea and vomiting.

So the result is: the injection did not help with vomiting. She still didn't want anything to eat for most of the day, and when she did finally come and ask for a meal, even though it was tiny, she brought it right back up and again another later. So I gave her a slippery elm bark/George's aloe blob and called it a day.  She vomited and didn't eat the next day either, but today seems finally back to normal I hope.

These vet visits just take so much out of her.

However, pain relief wise I would say the Cerenia did work, and seeing how spry she got (and still is 3 days later) only makes me realize how much pain she must be in. I mean, you know cats, they hide it so well, so even if you suspect pain, you know it's probably much worse than they let on. It's when you see the absence, or at least lessening, of it that you realize.

I'd hoped the CBD would have been here by now so I could start her on it this weekend and keep a close eye on her, but the way the mail is these days nothing ever gets her in a timely matter anymore. Now she'll have to wait until next weekend. It's so annoying.

Vet did reach for the tongue depressor to have a look in her mouth but I asked her to stop. I said you know she won't let you and you're just going to get her all worked up before you do the bloods and anal glands.  She did listen to me and stopped.  I think they do try when they have her in the back clinical area but I doubt they have much luck.

I think she could use a dental, but vet is reluctant to put her under. I'd like to do it, have her dental, have her x rayed get it all done at once. The thing is, if her mouth is bothering her, it's not something she'll show. If a short time under anesthesia advances the kidney disease, to me, the better quality of life she will have balances out the possibility that it will be shorter.  I've said this to her before but will bring it up again when we go over the bloods.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 05, 2021, 05:33:49 PM
PS how did your mother happen to get started on CBD gummies?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 10, 2021, 05:25:45 AM
Mazy cat's urinalysis and UPC (a gagging $151 I didn't know it was going to cost that, a usual urine send out is only $47.50) does not indicate the level of kidney disease the vet expected! In fact the protein/creatinine ratio is dead center normal! And she is still concentrating her urine normally. Everything else is normal and good as well.

Vet always seems surprised when my cats are healthier than she expects. Of course we know why.  Silly7

I'm going to start Mazy cat on 1 mg prednisolone a day, as soon as it is ordered and arrives.  She will take it for one week, then drop to every other day. We will soon know if this helps with pain (and maybe her digestive issues!) I've opted for liquid because because it is such a tiny amount to be syringed, only 0.1 ml. I opted for unflavored, because I think that may be safer than trying to use an artificial flavor. Mazy cat is so sensitive to stuff like that.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 12, 2021, 04:20:03 PM
PS how did your mother happen to get started on CBD gummies?

She was looking into CBD for her back pain, and the integrative pharmacy where I get some of my supplements also sells CBD gummies.  So I had a talk with the pharmacist and he explained the dosing, etc.  She has found them very helpful.

That's pawsome news that her tests results were so good!   thumbsup1  Good luck with the pred - I hope it helps her!   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 13, 2021, 05:39:06 AM
Thanks Pookie. Mazy cat had a pretty good day yesterday, two play sessions with me, one Solitaire Game (when I went out for my walk) and a big Thunder Around the House with Queen Eva last night. I expect she'll need to rest today.

  Here are some more pictures.  I think you already know I feed her in the kitchen and keep a gate up for 10 minutes, because of her vomiting.  I always fed other cats, Ootay, Tolly, Jennie, in bed when they needed it but I rarely do it for Mazy cat because of the vomiting. Yesterday afternoon I took  a chance.....

 Also, for a change of scene...we had some sun yesterday, and she found it..... that's her bed-bed. There is a warming pad under it and it's all arranged to keep drafts off her. There's even a little knitted blankie to cover her with (not shown in the picture though) when it gets really cold in the night, because I sleep with the window open.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 13, 2021, 02:17:55 PM
Ooo, Sunbeam!   :)  thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 14, 2021, 05:42:07 AM
Quote
Mazy cat had a pretty good day yesterday, two play sessions with me, one Solitaire Game (when I went out for my walk) and a big Thunder Around the House with Queen Eva last night. I expect she'll need to rest today.

I was right. She rested yesterday, but was playing first thing this morning again.  bananamiddlechild

Thanks for looking at the pics!  She won't let me get her face, with her eyes showing. I've been trying and trying.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 17, 2021, 09:17:52 PM
I've just given Mazy cat her first dose of prednisolone this morning. I tasted it myself first. I just put a drop on my tongue. At first it was sweet and then went bitter. When I gave it to Mazy I waited until she was well into her second breakfast and then just slipped it into her mouth and squirted. I figured it would go down with the food she was swallowing so I didn't worry about getting it down her throat. She barely paused. 0.1 ml is such a tiny amount, I am grateful for that.

I've watched her closely all day and don't see anything untoward.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 18, 2021, 12:33:21 PM
Xing fingers . . .

I'm going to look into the CBD for Kitty, not just for (hopefully) reducing stress if she needs a vet, but to help with the inflammation.  I hadn't even thought about using it for her (suspected) pancreatic inflammation and possible IBD, but yesterday morning she wasn't feeling well.  She ate her 1st breakfast, went to one box and peed, then went to the other (bigger) box and had diarrhea.  Then she came back to the first box and pooped a couple drops of diarrhea, then went over to the couch and tried to poop on the floor there.  She got a drop out, then went back to the 2nd box, and tried to poop again.  There was a little blood in it.   :(   Later in the day she had another diarrhea but I didn't see any blood.  Overnight, she had a well-formed poop, so that's something.

But all of that got me thinking that maybe CBD would help her, too, with whatever inflammation she has.  She's getting .2mL pred each day, but sometimes she still has an off day.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread, but I wanted to thank you for sharing the name of the CBD that you ordered for Mazy.  I'm going to look into it.

I'm really hoping that the pred helps Mazy and that she likes and tolerates it!  Do you think she'd eat it if you added it to her food?

EDIT:  I did a search for Myderma and I don't think I'm finding the right thing.  Would you mind posting a link to their website?  I found Myaderm and Medterra but I'm not sure if those are the one your friend uses.  Is it full-spectrum (contains up to .3% THC) or broad-spectrum (no THC)?

Thank you!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 18, 2021, 02:22:20 PM
It's the Myaderm. I must have written it wrong. There is no THC in the animal version.

https://www.myaderm.com/products/cbd-advanced-pet-cbd-cream-0-5-oz.

I don't want to put the prednisolone in her food. I would never know if she was getting it all or not. It's just as easy to squirt it down. :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 19, 2021, 09:36:52 AM
I've had to put an extra litter box in the bathroom, because I suspect Queen Eva is starting to block or bully Mazy cat from the usual boxes when I'm not home. And, once she's used it, blocking her from leaving.

So far Mazy cat has been to check it out a few times, even going so far as to get in it and paw around. As far as I know Queen Eva is ignoring it, though the bathroom is generally accepted as her Domain.

But this way if Queen Eva blocks Mazy cat from the usual cat's room, Mazy can go to the bathroom. Queen Eva can't block both doors at the same time. And, once Mazy cat is in there, if Queen Eva blocks her form leaving that room, still, it's a nice room, warm with two beds and a window.

There's one other corner I could have put it, but that corner is a real corner and if Queen Eva blocked her from leaving Mazy cat would be stuck in the box. I don't want that.

I hate having litter box in the bathroom but it's not the first time I've had to do it. Ironically, the last time was because Mazy cat, as a young cat, was bullying and blocking fragile old lady Ootay from getting to the boxes. Mazy cat had a FIT about that litter box in the bathroom in my apartment.

First I caught her trying to pull all the litter out with her paws, and then she kept tipping it over so all the litter dumped out. She stopped, eventually. No one ever used the litter box but Ootay, she knew, they all knew, it was hers.
I have some pictures.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 21, 2021, 05:42:06 AM
Mazy cat appears to be tolerating the prednisolone well, after 4 doses. Yesterday she cleaned her dish with every meal and is very active.  I hope it's not making her feel...antsy or anxious. I'm watching her closely of course.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 21, 2021, 01:47:27 PM
Mazy cat appears to be tolerating the prednisolone well, after 4 doses. Yesterday she cleaned her dish with every meal and is very active.  I hope it's not making her feel...antsy or anxious. I'm watching her closely of course.

 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 fingerscrossed

That's great that there's now another box for Mazy.  I can relate to the box in the bathroom not being fun -- there's still a box in the bathroom where I kept Kitty when I first got her, just in case she happens to be upstairs and needs it.  It's the only upstairs bathroom big enough for a box, and everything else is carpeted, so it is what it is.  As long as they have a box, right? :)

Thanks for the link!  I didn't realize it was a cream, which would be a bit difficult to give to Kitty.  I can pet her, but trying to actually put something like that on her might cause her more stress than needed.  I was looking for something to put in her food, like all of her other supplements.  Thanks for sharing, though!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 22, 2021, 05:26:42 AM
Thanks Pookie, yeah the cream goes in the ear flap. I am not using it. Probably won't either, unless the prednisolone isn't a success. Just more money down the drain. Sigh.

No one has used the box, thankfully. Mazy cat checks every day to see if it's still there, and Queen Eva as far as I can tell after one foray into it to walk around, has ignored it completely.

I am feeling hopeful that she might regain a little of her lost weight now. I don't mind if she doesn't, as long as the loss stops. She's skinny now, but not too terribly so, at just 8 pounds. Her normal healthy cat weight was 9 pounds 8 ounces. I wouldn't want her up that much now, with her arthritis and wobbliness. But being able to eat a little more and keep it down can only improve her quality of life, and that of course is the only goal.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 22, 2021, 10:35:41 PM
GoodVibes  fingerscrossed GoodVibes  fingerscrossed GoodVibes  :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 26, 2021, 09:05:44 AM
You know, I really think the prednisolone may be helping. Last night I was thinking she is less wobbly in her back end, but I'll pay closer attention today to be sure.  And I caught her doing the tightrope act on Thursday evening---haven't seen her do this in a long time!

Motility is still causing issues though. She eats better when she can eat but there are stil days she can't eat and she's dropped to 7 pounds 15 1/2 ounces.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 27, 2021, 02:14:59 PM
Sorry she's losing weight but love the pic of her balancing act.   thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 30, 2021, 05:51:29 AM
Thanks! Mazy cat is struggling with hard dry crumbly poops.  It has to be from the prednisolone, though I've looked and constipation is not listed as a side effect.  Oh well, I'm increasing the lactulose until I get to the right dose to solve the issue.

She's very active! :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 31, 2021, 08:31:12 AM
Mazy cat gained an ounce this week. bananamiddlechild.

Mazy cat checks to see if that litter box is still there every day. I don't know if it's to reassure herself that it's there if she needs it, or because she thinks it doesn't belong there. Queen Eva ignores it's presence completely, I worried she would object, because she eats in the bathroom (her chosen meal spot ever since she was a tot)

It hasn't been used yet.

However, I also noticed Mazy cat seemed hesitant to pass from the dining/kitchen area into the living room and then I realized why. Queen Eva was having fun crouching behind the couch and ambushing Mazy cat as she came through. Or sometimes not even ambushing, just crouching there, intimidating.

I put a stop to that by blocking both ends of the the behind the couch spot with cardboard. I know that was one of Queen Eva's Safe Spots, but I just can't have Mazy cat being nervous in her own home.

Mazy cat is moving much more freely through the house now, and Queen Eva, as far as I know, is not suffering any angst over losing her behind the couch spot.

After today Mazy cat goes to 0.1 ml prednisolone every other day.


Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 31, 2021, 12:49:12 PM
That's pawsome news that she gained weight!  multistars  thumbsup1  My personal hunch is that she's checking to see if the box is there to reassure herself.  Is she having any access issues with the other boxes or is Queen Eva "allowing" her to use them?  When I added the 2nd box downstairs, I moved one of Kitty's poops from the "main" box to the new box so her scent would be there.  It took a few days (and me removing the poop) and she started using it.  She hardly ever uses the "main" box anymore.  Anyway, my point is, and I'm sure you know this but I'm sharing for others that may read this:  adding a poop or pee clump of Mazy's to the new box may encourage her to use it, if that becomes necessary.

Queen Eva is such a stinker!  That's not nice to ambush/intimidate Mazy Cat.  :(  I'm glad she's not missing the couch spot and Mazy's not so nervous now.  Have you had a Talk with Queen Eva about all of this so she's nicer to Mazy?

 fingerscrossed that she does well on the .1 ml every other day!  And love the picture -- she let you get her face!  :)  thumbsup1  And she looks very comfortable and content.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 01, 2022, 07:27:13 AM
Thanks for the advice. Good to add it to this thread, I agree.  In this case though I don't feel the need to encourage her to use it.  She never used the extra one I had in my bedroom, in my apartment either, but she knows it's there. I know she gets in it to check it out, ever the Litter Box Police. :)

If she hasn't had to use it, I am hoping it means Queen Eva is not giving her a hard a time as I worried she was.

The funny thing is Mazy cat can actually LOOK Queen Eva out of the favored heated vent spot.  She simply walks over to Queen Eva and stares at her until Queen Eva hops straight up onto the half wall. Sometimes Mazy cat doesn't even want the spot for herself, she just doesn't want Queen Eva to have it.

I took some video of it but it's too dark to see much.

So, she can't be suffering too much worry, but being ambushed is hard on an elderly cat with painful joints.  Since I blocked the back of the couch, Mazy cat is moving much more freely.

I need more hours than thee are in a day to get enough food into her now though, so Mazy cat isn't getting her minimum 8 hour fasts over night any more. It doesn't seem to be making too much difference though. This morning I was determined to give them a 10 hour span, and it worked out great. We've been up since 7 and 9 a.m. will be 10 hours since the last meal so they had 2 hours to wait after getting up.

She had her peacock feather game, a toast by the heating vent, a drink of water and a cuddle on my lap.  In the 9th hour she brought up a little fur and then had a poop (normal, not hard and crumbly). If I'd not waited her breakfast would have come up instead, so that worked out good. 

Little victories. :)



Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 03, 2022, 05:04:57 AM
Oh my OH my OH MY!!!! MAZY CAT PLAYED AIRBORNE last night! That is not to say she got airborne, she didn't, but she initiated it and played it, all three ways!

I started thinking about when I had last seen her play this Game, and what I remembered is that a few months ago I noticed she wasn't interested in playing it, but how long before that it started I am not sure. She plays other games, lots of them, but not this one, Airborne does require a lot of movement and change ups. I knew I would only let her play it for five or six minutes, I don't want her to get sore or tired, but she stopped the game herself after 5 minutes.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 03, 2022, 03:30:54 PM
If she hasn't had to use it, I am hoping it means Queen Eva is not giving her a hard a time as I worried she was.

 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed

Quote
The funny thing is Mazy cat can actually LOOK Queen Eva out of the favored heated vent spot.  She simply walks over to Queen Eva and stares at her until Queen Eva hops straight up onto the half wall. Sometimes Mazy cat doesn't even want the spot for herself, she just doesn't want Queen Eva to have it.

 funny2

Quote
She had her peacock feather game, a toast by the heating vent, a drink of water and a cuddle on my lap.  In the 9th hour she brought up a little fur and then had a poop (normal, not hard and crumbly). If I'd not waited her breakfast would have come up instead, so that worked out good. 

Little victories. :)

Yup, I hear ya!

Oh my OH my OH MY!!!! MAZY CAT PLAYED AIRBORNE last night! That is not to say she got airborne, she didn't, but she initiated it and played it, all three ways!

I'm not familiar with that one - would you mind describing it as best as you can?  I'm glad she knows her limits and stopped on her own.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 04, 2022, 03:58:29 PM
Usually she initiates by getting one of her yeeeow fruits: tomato, lemon or banana and starts doing a few hind kicks on it.  When she sees me watching, if she wants me to play, too, she'll give me a look and dance sideways to show me she wants me to play.

I gather up various throw toys, the yeeeow things, and crumpled paper balls.  She sets herself up and waits.  I toss a missile and she leaps up into the air to catch it or bat it, then chases it across the floor. Depending on the missile she might give it a few hind kicks or flop on it and hug and kick.

In our new house she takes it a bit further because we have more room. For instance, the other night, the game started in the living room. After a few minutes, she casually wandered off into the kitchen.  Here's where people sometimes lose the Game. 

It might look like she has lost interest, but what she is really doing is changing the Game.  She has relocated herself, because she wants me to toss things to her into the kitchen. There's more room to both leap and run there, plus she LOVES to run on the vinyl sheet flooring, with her claws out, making a skritchskrithscritch noise as she runs.

So I stand at the far end (still in the living room) and start tossing again, and she does her thing again. 

Then she moves back toward the living room and again sets herself up and waits. This means I am to go into the kitchen and gather them all up, and staying in there start tossing them back into the living room.

So the Game now has three parts.

Here is a video taken in 2018, in our old place. It's the tail end of Game time, Queen Eva has already had her Games, so isn't barging in too much and Mazy cat is only playing with the crumpled paper balls at this point. It does show her airborne a few times.  Mazy cat was 14 1/2 in that video. She is 17 1/2 now.

https://youtu.be/Vl02XsHBxmE
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 05, 2022, 05:14:46 AM
Mazy cat used the bathroom box this morning. Not because of any bullying but because I forgot to ensure she peed before breakfast, and she was behind the gate waiting for her timer to go off, and she really had to go. So the ice is broken now.  It will be interesting to see if she starts using it as a matter of course. I hope not, but it's the risk I take putting it there.  I hope Queen Eva doesn't use it now.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 06, 2022, 11:10:17 AM
Thanks for explaining and the video!   :)  Has she played Airborne since Monday?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 06, 2022, 01:18:13 PM
Tuesday night she rested. Last night she was full steam ahead again. But she's trying to move a wad of fur and not keeping her meals down. As of this moment, I've officially stopped feeding her until she passes it.  I'll give her the seb/aloe blob when I get home from work, and might try to feed her a small amount at bed time, we'll see. That's the usual regimen thee days.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 08, 2022, 11:08:08 PM
Mazy cat still hasn't passed that wad, but her activity level is still on the upswing. We've just had another Game of modified Airborne.  I've spoken to the vet and expressed my concern that dropping to every other day might not help her keep the same level of comfort. Vet said the dose is so small, if I stick to the 0.1 ml, I can play around with the frequency of it based on her needs.

I'll give the every other day another week but after that I might try two days on, one day off instead of every other day and see how she does on that.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 09, 2022, 04:33:26 PM
Has she passed the wad yet?  You'll figure out what works best for her in terms of the pred and dosing.  :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 10, 2022, 05:04:20 AM
Not until late last night. Around midnight she finally had a huge smelly poop. Masses of it. with about half of it very soft. Up until then she'd just been passing dry hard poops for the last week or so. That lot must have been sitting in her colon all this time soaking up all the water. She must feel so much better. 

She did stagger a bit after going, same as she does sometimes after vomiting.

I was glad the vet gave me carte blanche to use the pred the way I see fit.  I expect it will be an ongoing change up.

EDIT by the way I didn't stop feeding her completely until then of course. Just that one day when she just kept bringing the meal up. But she was on reduced portions.  Hopefully now she'll be back to her normal eating. She only lost half an ounce.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 11, 2022, 02:42:08 PM
Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 12, 2022, 01:22:54 PM
I am not happy with the regression in mobility I am seeing so I'm going to start the two days on one day off right now.

She seems to have developed an intolerance to the GLM. Keeps puking up her lunch, which is the meal she gets it in. :(
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 12, 2022, 04:13:40 PM
I am not happy with the regression in mobility I am seeing so I'm going to start the two days on one day off right now.

 thumbsup1

Quote
She seems to have developed an intolerance to the GLM. Keeps puking up her lunch, which is the meal she gets it in. :(
  :(   GoodVibes  HangInThere
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 14, 2022, 07:34:59 AM
Yesterday I gave her her lunch without GLM. She ate every drop and kept it down. She was also on day two in a row of pred though. Today is off day of pred. 

I wonder if the pred might help her cope with the GLM. Hmm..Just give it on the days she gets pred, I am going to try that.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 16, 2022, 03:23:45 PM
 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed   :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 16, 2022, 06:49:32 PM
Today she had GLM ate every drop and had no trouble. So I think the lunch vomiting may just be coincidence with regards to GLM,
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 17, 2022, 01:31:31 PM
Good!  Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 17, 2022, 04:33:28 PM
Today again, not trouble with the GLM. And it was a non-pred day.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 18, 2022, 10:26:44 AM
Hmm . . . maybe she was just having some "off" days?  :-\
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 18, 2022, 12:32:19 PM
Hmm . . . maybe she was just having some "off" days?  :-\

That's what I am thinking/hoping.  Flipping back through the book, I see there was a period last summer when I thought the same thing, that she was getting intolerant of the GLM.  Today she was okay too, but I only gave her a half dose, because I had service people coming and I wanted to reduce the odds of an issue.

Fine again!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 19, 2022, 09:43:15 AM
 thumbsup1 thumbsup1 thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 19, 2022, 01:17:46 PM
And another positive report. I actually expected her to vomit her lunch today, she had a very rough morning, and she's about due. But I gave her the full dose of GLM, and a little too much water in the meal (accidental), often she needs what I call "help" (forti flora or pancreas powder) if I put too much water in it, but nope she ate the entire meal without coming up for air, and kept it all down. And doesn't look uncomfortable. Whew.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 20, 2022, 11:53:35 AM
That's great!   thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 25, 2022, 06:22:13 PM
I am really happy with the two days on one day off prednisolone regimen. It's been two week since I started it.  bananamiddlechild
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 27, 2022, 07:42:40 AM
I am really happy with the two days on one day off prednisolone regimen. It's been two week since I started it.  bananamiddlechild

Pawsome!  It sound like it's working out well!   thumbsup1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on January 29, 2022, 01:40:23 PM
Thanks! I'm now trying 3 days on, one day off. She clearly has a harder time on the off day.  I don't know if it's because of the severe weather. I'm going to talk to the vet next week about keeping her on it daily. Maybe I can drop back to eveyr other day when it's summer.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 02, 2022, 04:54:49 PM
Vet has approved going back to a daily dose of prednisolone for Mazy cat.. She thinks three days on one day off is not a good idea, too difficult to regulate the levels like that. It has to be a consistent dose, either every other day, or every day. So Every day it is.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 02, 2022, 09:57:06 PM
Wasn't the 2 days on, one day off working well?  Would it be ok to go back to that?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 03, 2022, 06:10:28 AM
Wasn't the 2 days on, one day off working well?  Would it be ok to go back to that?

The off day was too hard on her. Right now she's just coming out of one of her bad IBD episodes, but I think she needs the pred daily.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 03, 2022, 06:59:57 AM
The off day was too hard on her. Right now she's just coming out of one of her bad IBD episodes, but I think she needs the pred daily.

 :(  I didn't realize the off days were so bad.   fingerscrossed that the daily makes a HUGE difference for her!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 16, 2022, 06:01:47 PM
I've started Mazy cat on the CBD cream. Over the weekend I worked on a project in the house for two days. Neither of them like it when I am using saws and drills and hammers. Queen Eva slept in a Burrow but Mazy cat stayed in the bedroom and I didn't think to turn on a space heater in there. I had the heat on 68, but the bedroom is cold, especially when it's only about 5 degrees outside.

Saturday night she and Queen Eva Thundered Around the House a lot. And again on Sunday morning, but when I went back to my project Mazy cat went back to the cold bedroom. A few hours later when she got up she was so stiff she was limping. I has horrified. She loosened up, but still the pred is just not enough,  So I've started the Myaderm too, and I cut out the side of the bathroom litter box so she has one she can just step into.

She still jumps up and down, but I want her to have a box she can just walk into if she ever really can't jump over a side.

I was brave enough to try it, because I've been using a CBD gummy for a few months now and it's helping me more than I expected. Mine is so expensive though I am not sure I can sustain it.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 16, 2022, 06:57:30 PM
 fingerscrossed that the CBD cream helps Mazy cat feel better, and soon!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 20, 2022, 08:58:50 AM
CBD - I've become a believer. Not for everyone I know, people have different chemistries. But by a series of coincidences I have found a brand both for myself and for Mazy cat. (different brands)

I just don't know if I can sustain the cost for myself.  Mazy cat's is inexpensive, and I would afford it no matter what. Myself though..I don't know I am trying to figure out how to fit it in to the budget.  I watch for sales and discounts and that helps but..it's getting tight..
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 20, 2022, 09:19:57 AM
CBD - I've become a believer. Not for everyone I know, people have different chemistries. But by a series of coincidences I have found a brand both for myself and for Mazy cat. (different brands)

I just don't know if I can sustain the cost for myself.  Mazy cat's is inexpensive, and I would afford it no matter what. Myself though..I don't know I am trying to figure out how to fit it in to the budget.  I watch for sales and discounts and that helps but..it's getting tight..

As I've learned the hard way, you need to take care of yourself, first and foremost.   fingerscrossed that you find a way to make it work.  I'm glad it's helping both of you!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 21, 2022, 10:42:54 AM
Out of my mind with worry about Mazy cat. I think it's her mouth.  If I put a dish in front of her she jumps away like I've hit her and runs under the bed. I've just made an emergency appointment for 3:20. Vet doesn't want to knock her out to look so she's going to try...but I know how that's going to go.

Vet said if she can't get a look she will give her pain meds for the night and make an appointment to anesthetize tomorrow morning. I said I have buprenex here from Jennie, but she doesn't want me to use it, says it won't be any good. (personally I happen to know that old buprenex works fine, I've used it years past it's date in the past but since I've chosen to call the vet I'll do it her way.)

Can you spare a vibe or two?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 21, 2022, 07:19:49 PM
I'm seeing this after today's appointment but am sending good vibes on the way to you and Mazy cat.  How did the appointment go?

GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 21, 2022, 07:50:56 PM
She's constipated. She's been pooping right along but only hard small bits, and it's been building up.

 I enlisted Tolly Angel's help in getting Mazy cat through it and he really did seem to come through because vet was able to get a pretty good look in her mouth and there was tartar but no sign of anything that might cause pain.

She's had fluids, and a cerenia shot, and I'm to increase her lactulose to 1 ml 2 x a day. She was fine when we first got home but then there was an issue with the neighbors and noise and she's gone into hiding under the bed. I am so worried about her under there it's cold and she won't get on the warming bed I put under there for her. If she doesn't move soon she won't be able to.

I did get some lactulose into her before she went into hiding. But she's bound to need to pee soon with the fluids and all. Ugh, I can't stand this.

Now we need vibes for her to move that poop. Thank you!

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 22, 2022, 11:54:31 AM
Comin' your way (and Mazy cat's):  GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 22, 2022, 03:26:48 PM
Had to take her back today for more fluids and an enema.  If this doesn't work x ray is next, but she's going to the box every half hour or so and passing some liquid and one or two hard round poos, so hopefully this will be the end of it. I'm to continue with 1 ml lactulose twice a day, or even 3 times a day if I thin she needs it.

She is staying out and about after the vet trip today, walking alot (which is good)

Vet said she might vomit and she did once so far, on the non washable rug of course. I've got brown paper down all over now because I know she's a bit messy on her backside though she does let me give her a quick wipe with a warm damp paper towel after every trip to the box.

She's had a few scratches at her scratching post and is looking very much brighter.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 22, 2022, 07:06:40 PM
 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed that she continues to feel better, and  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 to you.  You've had a rough couple of days!

Continued GoodVibes to you both, and HangInThere
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 23, 2022, 02:49:51 PM
How's she doing today?  GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 23, 2022, 03:16:46 PM
Mazy cat is much much brighter this afternoon. I took her in for one more dose of fluids, vet says she is emptied out, so if I keep the lactulose increased dose hopefully we'll be good.

She got the bulk of it all out yesterday, liquid poops from the enema but each movement had a couple of rock hard round balls in it. You know cats can't pass those round poops, they just spin when they try to push them out.

Vet said again she wished I would do the fluids at home, but I'm not going to do it. If it shortens Mazy cat's life, at least her life isn't the stress of me holding against her will and sticking her. I think she'd adjust to me taking her to the vet twice a week for fluids better than having them at home. But ugh, I don't want her to have to do that either, and I can't afford it anyway.

She KNEW I was going to take her today. 3 days makes a habit I guess. As much as she hates going to the vet, she just sat there and waited for me to pick her up and put her in the carrier. And she didn't say a word while she was there either. She's an incredible cat.

The Rescue Remedy really helps her a lot.

Did I tell you about Queen Eva?  usually she turns bully when a cat is ill, plus getting al riled up over vet smells, but she ahs completely ignored the whole thing! Not harassed Mazy cat at ALL, even when Mazy cat scream ed a couple of times when I had to do things to her, which usually makes her come running with puffed tail and throw herself into the fray. None of that!  I can only believe that Tolly had something to do with it. Both with Mazy cat managing the vet trips and treatments, and Queen Eva behaving herself.

Oh and she must have spent today cleaning herself up, she is all clean and sweet smelling again. She smelled horribly last night! That must have been quite the wash session!

She's had another tiny meal and a little bit of a play session and is about to curl up on her heating pad.

Thanks for all the support and vibes.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 23, 2022, 09:13:20 PM
I'm glad she's doing better! 

Quote
She KNEW I was going to take her today. 3 days makes a habit I guess. As much as she hates going to the vet, she just sat there and waited for me to pick her up and put her in the carrier. And she didn't say a word while she was there either. She's an incredible cat.

Maybe she knew it would help her feel better, even if it's not her favorite place.   :)

Kudos to Queen Eva and Mazy (and thanks, Tolly) for being such good girls!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 24, 2022, 04:42:06 PM
I'm glad she's doing better! 

Maybe she knew it would help her feel better, even if it's not her favorite place.   :)

Kudos to Queen Eva and Mazy (and thanks, Tolly) for being such good girls!

I think you nailed it Pookie, I really do.  Normally when we go to the vet she feels fine and has nasty things done that make no sense to her.

But she was feeling very poorly and she clearly made the connection, when I brought her there they did things and then she felt better. She knew she needed their help.

She's got a convalescent appetite now but I have to be so careful to not trigger a vomiting episode.

She's got herself all shining clean (her backside was pretty messy and smelly there for a while after the enema) so of course now the hair accumulation starts again.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 27, 2022, 08:45:07 AM
Vomit episode yesterday, first in 17 days.  I've been expecting it she must be absolutely chock full of fur. No poop since the enema induced diarrhea stopped, but she didn't eat at al Monday or Tuesday. She did eat small amounts on Wednesday and back to regular diet on Thursday so there should be poop coming, but nothing so far. :(

I've now upped her lactulose to three times a day per vet instructions.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 27, 2022, 10:44:38 AM
 fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes

HangInThere   Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 27, 2022, 11:15:07 AM
She had a small poop this morning, sticky, no fur, with a round ball piece. :(  Then threw up her second breakfast which included her prednisolone dose, and the denosyl she'd had 2 hours earlier.  Sometimes I feel there is just no way forward to helping her any further. In the 17 years we've been together,  I've done it all, tried it all. I just can only keep her as comfortable as possible. There just isn't another way to help her move that fur.

:( :(
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on February 28, 2022, 05:55:28 PM
 :(

Do you think another trip to the vet for fluids would help?

GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on February 28, 2022, 06:54:13 PM
Thanks Pookie. Regular sub q would undoubtedly help her feel better. It might help her stool be less dry, because her body would be able to send more water to the bowel, if she were better hydrated,  now that her kidneys aren't doing their job so well.

 But it's not sustainable. The stress to her, and to myself and the financial cost, it's not doable.  Mazy cat is almost 18 years old. There will be no heroic "I'd do anything to keep her going" measures here. I don't believe in it, and it wouldn't be in her best interests.

The main issue still is, and always will be, her poor motility. She just cannot move the fur. This is what that disgusting Hills c/d kibble did to her.

I did have an idea of one more thing I might try regarding sub q though. There is a syringe method.  I am wondering even if that's what they are using at the vet, they do it so fast. If they could provide me with a sub q syringe, I might be able to manage something. It would have to be a tiny needle, and I probably wouldn't manage more than 50 cc at a time, but it would be better than nothing.

My thought is, while she's snoozing, she might tolerate me coming up behind her and dosing her with the sub q syringe. It's being held she objects to. She allows me to medicate her, both pills and liquid, trim her nails (that took six years) do stuff to her ears, and eyes.....but if it upsets her I won't continue. I just want her to have a peaceful life.

Here I caught her eyes today. Look how annoyed she is, it took 4 tries lol (I just noticed this shot also shows how bent her right front paw is, that's the arthritis)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 01, 2022, 11:08:18 AM
She has such pretty eyes!  Thanks for sharing.

I know you want to keep her stress to a minimum and understand that.  Since she was so obliging last week with the vet visits, I just wondered if she would tolerate another one.  There's going to be stress either way:  vet visits, sub-q at home or not being able to poop (and vomiting).  It's just finding the least stressful option.  The syringe method sounds like it's worth a go!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 01, 2022, 01:27:17 PM
Thanks Pookie. I think she coped with the three days in a row at the vet last week because she knew she needed help and I was getting her the help she needed. I mean, because she was sick. She was in pain and couldn't eat.  Routine visits for fluids would not be the same, she would not be sick and in pain with every visit.

I'm still experimenting with the lactulose dose. I came home just now to a productive poop in the litter box,  firm but moist, with some fir, and a good amount. PLUS, one of her Solitaire toys out and about so she's playing by herself, which is always the sign I watch for most. :)

Yesterday she had three doses of 0.5 ml each. This morning I gave her 1 ml.  Lunch just now a 0.5 again, and at bedtime I'm going to do 1 ml again. If that proves to be too much I'll reduce the bedtime dose to 0.5 and just keep the breakfast dose at 1 ml. But 3 times a day is going to be the norm for her now.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 04, 2022, 02:41:55 PM
Good luck!   fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed fingerscrossed
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 05, 2022, 09:04:05 AM
Mazy cat is now on 1 ml lactulose 3 x a day.  She's managing to pass stool without too much trouble, every other day. She's eating okay and her weight this morning was 7 lbs 15 1/2 oz so she gained an ounce from last week.

She's drinking more and peeing more, but this is the way of kidney disease. I'm going to put her on a week of d-mannose now, just in case there was any transference of bacteria during her enema diarrhea.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 06, 2022, 11:13:27 AM
I have some BRILLIANT NEWS! Mazy had a great big poop today. Soft but firm with formed pieces and chock full of fur. Looks like 3 ml (1 ml 3 x a day) is the magic number for her, for now. I do realize that the very nature of laxatives, they gradually do have to be increased. But I'll keep a closer watch this time and not let her get to the state she was in 2 weeks ago, ever again.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 06, 2022, 12:38:19 PM
Mazy cat is now on 1 ml lactulose 3 x a day.  She's managing to pass stool without too much trouble, every other day. She's eating okay and her weight this morning was 7 lbs 15 1/2 oz so she gained an ounce from last week.

That's great!   thumbsup1

I have some BRILLIANT NEWS! Mazy had a great big poop today. Soft but firm with formed pieces and chock full of fur. Looks like 3 ml (1 ml 3 x a day) is the magic number for her, for now. I do realize that the very nature of laxatives, they gradually do have to be increased. But I'll keep a closer watch this time and not let her get to the state she was in 2 weeks ago, ever again.

multistars multistars multistars
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 13, 2022, 07:33:03 PM
Well after a few days her appetite dwindled to nothing again and I've been hand feeding her tiny amounts every couple of hours for the past two days (but continuing the lactulose 3 x a day) and tonight she finally went, it's been 4 days, so it looks like this, the pooping,  is going to be just another one of her roller coasters.

I'm sure she feels much better now and wil probably start eating normally again tomorrow, but for how long until the next build up. Oh well, this is what it is now. With her CKD advancing, there's no telling how much time she has left, I just want her to be a peaceful and comfortable as I can make her.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 14, 2022, 12:50:29 PM
GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 14, 2022, 02:13:36 PM
Oh god Mazy cat threw up all over the bed. Thankfully I was right there and was able to shove something under the sheet to prevent it from reaching the mattress, it was very foul smelling liquid. I'd given her the lactulose about 20 minutes earlier I hope that went through her before she puked, I don't dare give it again, in case it did.  She also hit both cat beds but missed the blankets and the down comforter thank goodness for small favors!

Poor Queen Eva went frantic when I had to strip the bed she kept trying t to burrow but there was nothing to burrow under until I was able to get a fresh matters cover and sheet on the bed.  She was running frantically around crying.  Now she's all huddled but a bit traumatized. Hope she recovers before Wednesday' which is her appointment for her pre-dental check up.

The furnace timing couldn't have been worse, with regards to that,  but I couldn't quibble about dates.  They came two weeks ago but the furnace they brought was too big to fit down my stairs into the cellar, that's why it was being done again today.

I've got the two cat beds scrubbed and soaking and the bottom sheet. I don't want to run laundry while they are working down there. It would be right over their heads, doesn't seem nice to do to them.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 15, 2022, 10:19:29 AM
 :(  I'm so sorry!  Wow, what a stressful day for all of you!  :(

Just a suggestion:  you might want to get a water-proof mattress cover for your bed, since this is the second time (I think) that Mazy Cat has puked on it.  It won't save your sheets, but it will at least save your mattress.  I bought one for the daybed back when I still had Pookie and Bonnie, before I stopped feeding any dry food.  They would puke multiple times a day, everyday, everywhere, and I wanted to spare the mattress.

I hope today is better for you, Mazy and Queen Eva!   Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 15, 2022, 01:24:12 PM
Oh well I've thought of it but I think I would find the crackling intolerable, thank you! I thrash all night. The mattress cover is pretty thick and so far this mattress (5 years old) has remained clean.

She's feeling herself today, a nice (soft) big poop this morning, all her Solitaire toys out when I came home for lunch and after she ate her lunch and I released her from the gate (10 minutes) she Thundered Around the House for a few minutes.

I dread tomorrow, Queen Eva to the vet, but we'll get through it somehow. Then her Dental on the 28th. Then that's it for vet appointments for a long time.

I'm not taking Mazy cat for routine check up and bloods any more I've decided. The CKD is progressing pretty fast I think, and I just want her to enjoy her days until she can't. Her anal glands seem cleaned out still, maybe giving the enema expelled them for her again.That is one of the reasons she has to go every 6 months, her anal glands. So I'm keeping an eye on them.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 15, 2022, 05:25:01 PM
I'm glad Mazy's feeling better!

I dread tomorrow, Queen Eva to the vet, but we'll get through it somehow. Then her Dental on the 28th. Then that's it for vet appointments for a long time.

GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 17, 2022, 05:40:34 AM
Mazy cat is so stressed. First the furnace then Queen Eva smelling like vet, she is beside herself.  It's only going to get worse, furnace guys again next week (but not as long, but it will be noisy they have to cut the thing up to get it out) and when Queen Eva has her dental she is going to smell much much worse like vet. Of course when she is stressed I am stressed. I can't do anything with her because of her biting. Wish I could stay home.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 18, 2022, 01:13:12 PM
 :(

Tossing this out there:  When Queen Eva comes home from the vet, put her in a room, close the door, and rub one of you shirts over her so some of your scent gets on her.  Then you can open the door.  And I only mention closing the door because I don't know if the Queen would let you do it, or if she'd run off as soon as you open the carrier door.

As for the furnace guys . . . have you ever tried the Feliway diffuser?  Personally, I'm not a fan of the smell, but maybe for a couple days it could help with the furkids' stress?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 18, 2022, 04:14:10 PM
:(

Tossing this out there:  When Queen Eva comes home from the vet, put her in a room, close the door, and rub one of you shirts over her so some of your scent gets on her.  Then you can open the door.  And I only mention closing the door because I don't know if the Queen would let you do it, or if she'd run off as soon as you open the carrier door.

As for the furnace guys . . . have you ever tried the Feliway diffuser?  Personally, I'm not a fan of the smell, but maybe for a couple days it could help with the furkids' stress?

Hmm. That might be a good idea about keeping her separated.. Thanks! I don't have real doors, just screen doors, but she's supposedly going to need to be kept quiet after anesthesia anyway. I don't know though, the vet smell, especially after anesthesia is very powerful to cats and lasts several days.

If it's really bad I may have to keep them separated when I go to work the next day. I'm just not sure which one to put behind the screen door in the bedroom. With the litter box in the bathroom, each cat will have access to liter, and of course there are water bowls in both areas.

Regarding feliway, I advise people against it these days. It was a good product back in the early 2000s, I used it for Ootay and it really seemed to help her a lot,  but something changed and it's awful now.  In ever case I've seen people mentioning using it, it sounds like the felwiay plug in is making things worse. And it certainly did here, or rather in my old place. I don't remember what for but I got a new one because I gave a coworker my old one and it was just awful. The smell filled the house (the old formula I didn't even smell it at all) and Mazy cat was so spooked by it all she did was sit and stare at it with these big black eyes. I couldn't get her away from it, so I threw it away.

They seem to cope with these invasions not too badly. There have been more since I moved here than in all my years put together in my apartment lol.  It was the vet on top of the invasion that made things escalate I think.

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 18, 2022, 09:09:31 PM
Just to clarify - the separation was just so you could get your scent on Queen Eva by rubbing an unwashed shirt on her.  After that, I was thinking she could then have full access along with Mazy Cat, and the vet smell would be "diluted" by the smell from your clothing.

Every household is different, but I know when Pookie spent almost a week at the vet after he ate string, things did not go well when he came home.  Bonnie wanted nothing to do with him and he didn't understand why.  I had to keep her in the spare bedroom and tried to re-introduce her to him, but it never worked.  :(  She stayed in that room until I gave her up for health reasons.  That's why I'm not suggesting they stay separated, but like I said, every household is different.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 19, 2022, 01:48:30 AM
I meant I would keep them separated only while I am at work to protect Mazy cat. When she hisses or gets upset Queen Eva throws herself into the fray, doesn't matter the cause. She's just too fragile these days, I don't want her hurt.

I did that one other time with Queen Eva..it was during that time I had to have the well pump replaced, and Mazy cat had some illness, and the stress was terrible. I had to keep Queen Eva in the bedroom behind the screen door while I was at work. She went willingly enough for three or four days, then protested, so I figured the crisis was over and things got back to normal.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 20, 2022, 08:53:12 AM
Mazy cat is having a rough time.  Her hind end is very wobbly, sometimes giving out on her. I can't determine how much pain she is in, you know how cats are. Her appetite is sketchy too. I'm going to pick up some baby food today, I've never tried it with her,. Hopefully I can find a non-GMO product.

 I might try a buprenex dose to see if it makes much difference. After I get home from the store. The problem with the opioid though is it can cause constipation.

 I can't stand for her to suffer. I just can't stand it. She certainly isn't at "the end", but I just want her to be more comfortable. She's at the water bowl a lot so I'm guessing the kidney disease is progressing rather more quickly than I expected.

EDIT:  When she isn't feeling well she's so stiff and tense.  Holds herself so tight and won't purr or react to her favorite petting. Before I tried the buprenex I decided to try the Rescue Remedy instead. I've been using it a lot for her lately. I put it on my fingers and rub it into her ear flaps and in front of her ears.

 Well when I approached her with the stuff on my fingers she looked up EAGERLY. She KNEW I was bringing the RR ad submitted to the rubbing with every evidence of enjoyment, and is now much more relaxed. Spoke to me and purred, very softly, but purred, when I stroked her. So, she knows what it means when I come to her with it on my fingers and she knows it helps her.

Mazy cat is still amazing me after all these years.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 21, 2022, 05:49:43 AM
She seems a little better this morning She finally came to bed last night but not until 3 a.m. She spent most of the night out in the living room on her heating pad bed. I didn't like to leave it on all night so every time I got up (I get up numerous times in the night) I either turned it off or turned it back on. It was in off mode when she came to bed. She woke me as she stepped on my head to get to her bed and allowed me to pet her into a purr.

She seems to be getting around better this morning, but her hind end is very wobbly, more so than ever. She can jump up onto her spots but sometimes slips when coming down. None of her jumps are higher than a foot and most are lower, I have stools and steps for her everywhere, it's been like that for several years. She needs coaxing to eat, but I did get enough into her to get her prednisolone into her. Next challenge will be the lactulose meal.

I was unable to find baby food meat yesterday. Any at all, let alone non-GMO Project Verified. I wonder how people who rely on it are feeding their babies. I had to throw away the jar I keep in reserve a while back, as it got old, and I never remembered to replace it.

I'll call the vet this morning and get a cerenia injection, though I don't know if I'll be able to give it to her. It's worth a try though, I don't want to have to bring her to the vet. I promised her no more vet trips except when absolutely necessary. No more routine 6 month check ups with blood work I mean. There's no point. We know her kidneys are failing, checking levels will serve no purpose.

She's refusing her denosyl. I am not fighting her about it. It doesn't seem to matter at this point. Only her comfort matters.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 21, 2022, 12:00:54 PM
Sending lots of purrs, hugs and good vibes to you and Mazy cat:   Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 21, 2022, 03:44:56 PM
Thanks Pookie. When I came home for lunch she was MUCH brighter! She greeted me at the door, arriving in a trot..or at least as much of a trot as she can do theses days with her wobbly hind quarters. Her Solitaire toys were all out, so she's been playing too. She ate meal #1 (with the lactulose) for her lunch without too much coaxing, even got up on the table to her meal spot, something she hasn't done in several days (I just feed her where she's parked) and 15 minutes later meal # 2 which she ate in her heater spot.

Home for the day and she again greeted me at the door, and ate her premeal all up, again in her heater spot.

She even looks like she might have had a bit of a wash too, she hasn't bathed in days, I've been washing her face for her, to keep food from building up on her chin and whiskers.

Every low spell she has I prepare myself that this is the one she won't come out of, but so far she always does.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 22, 2022, 10:48:31 AM
I'm glad she's feeling better and eating!  multistars

Every low spell she has I prepare myself that this is the one she won't come out of, but so far she always does.

Yeah, the roller coaster ride isn't easy.  You're doing everything you can, and she's happy.  That's all you can do.  grouphug  GoodVibes

HangInThere
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 24, 2022, 05:44:09 AM
Up and down up and down. She's refusing the Denosyl now so I'm going with it. What's the point. She won't eat egg yolk in her meals any more either but still will eat the egg yolk lecithin. She gets her pred and her lactulose and egg yolk lecithin. They've changed the formula of the EYL now though so I don't know what I'm going to do about that. I only have a a week of the old formula left.

She has that skinny old lady look and it's happening fast.  The nature of the beast - kidney disease I mean.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 24, 2022, 08:21:36 PM
I'm so sorry.   :( grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 25, 2022, 05:10:41 AM
Thanks Pookie. Well it's Love and Cheese Danish time that's all. Right now she calls the shots and I am trying to keep things as peaceful as possible. She wants to eat, she eats. She doesn't want to eat she doesn't. Water bowl is freshened numerous times a day, boxes are kept pristine, she can have what she wants, do what she wants, eat where she wants. I've stopped all meds and supplements except her prednisolone, for inflammation and pain and her lactulose to keep her pooping, (as long as she keeps pooping!), and when she's had enough she'll tell me.

I sound healthy and together don't I? HA! It's all an act. But I have to be. Time enough to fall apart when she's gone. And I know I will. But right now we've got our "new normal" for her and that's the way it has to be, to keep the stress down.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 25, 2022, 11:13:31 AM
grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 27, 2022, 02:52:59 PM
I just can't get over how much she loves getting the Rescue Remedy rubbed in and how much it helps her. Three times a day. She doesn't like when I try to wash her head a bit though lol.

She's eating only the Meat Mates still. I offered her raw this morning and she refused it.  Yesterday I got 2.4 ounces into her and I'm heading for that much today too, if things carry on the way they have been. On work days there is just no way to get that much into her. She lost 2 ounces last week, down to 7lbs 14 oz.

Queen Eva continues her NON bullying. I am impressed and grateful and tell her so all the time.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 28, 2022, 10:07:26 AM
 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 GoodVibes GoodVibes GoodVibes
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 29, 2022, 03:27:54 PM
Well I've started cleaning Mazy cat's face for her (much to her annoyance) she's not doing much washing these days. She's been eating that Meat Mates (canned food from New Zealand), and her breath isn't as nice either. Today I've coaxed some of her raw back into her and she's eaten it.

I spoke to the vet today and she suggested appetite stimulant. I don't like to use them, if they don't want to eat it's for a reason after all, but since it comes in a transdermal, which gives me more control over the dose, I reluctantly agreed.

I am home today for other reasons, so I gave her a dose and it certainly seems to be helping her eat. Not at the frantic I have to eat have to eat have to eat pace I feared it would cause. But I only used about half the prescribed amount of ointment. I'm watching for the restlessness I remember seeing in Jennie the one time I gave her Mirtazapine (orally). After that I had switched to Cypropheptadine for Jennie, I liked that better, but I don't think it comes in a transdermal.

It's very expensive for 10 days worth. I won't use it when I am not home to keep an eye on her anyway so we'll see how it goes. I don't intend to give it to her every day.

  3 hours since the dose and she began showing that restlessness that I hate. Pacing around and around. I want her to eat, sure, but I don't want her feeling whatever it is the appetite stimulant makes her feel that causes this pacing.

I'll try an even smaller amount next time, but not for a few days.

But she has eaten more today than in any day for the last two weeks and she still has a few meals to go.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on March 30, 2022, 11:50:10 AM
Nothing to add, just sending GoodVibes and hugs.  Hug1

HangInThere
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 30, 2022, 05:27:00 PM
I will never use appetite stimulants again. EVER.

She paced for HOURS yesterday. I could tell she was very unhappy, in spite of eating more.

Very early this morning she got up to pee and when she came back to bed instead of getting back in her bed-bed she crawled under the covers and slept in my arms. Mazy cat has never ever done that in her entire life. I barely breathed and did not go back to sleep, just lay there dozing on and off for fear I would forget who was there and try to cuddle her or rub her tummy which probably would have lost me a hand. Just waiting for the alarm to go off at 5 a.m.

She was very poorly this morning, did not want to eat, very hunched and tight and miserable. I left for work in tears, sure she was going to tell me she'd had enough, though I held on to the thought that after 9:30 it would be 24 hours since that awful Mirtaz and maybe she'd feel better.

When I came home for lunch she greeted me at the door, albeit very slowly, and ate a small amount of food. Enough to get her lactulose into her and she looked much better than she did this morning. Much less tight.

When I came home at the end of the day, she is very bright and even chasing Queen Eva around a tiny bit. and has had two small meals so far.

So she's not done yet. But I will never ever EVER use appetite stimulants again.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 01, 2022, 05:13:37 AM
Mazy cat is have a bad time. She stopped eating last night and is very tight. I thought she was in pain and gave her a dose of buprenex. It didn't seem to make any difference by which I conclude it's not pain troubling her, probably nausea. She came to bed but she didn't change position all night. Or purr. She stayed in the loaf position with her face next to mine.

She did get up this morning with coaxing and is responsive to me but won't eat or drink.Or purr. My vet isn't on today, but I'm going to see if they'll let me bring her in for a shot of Cerenia and some fluids to get her through the weekend.As poorly as she is, surely they'll be able to handle her.

I don't think she's ready to go today, but the weekend...you know? If I can get her through the weekend, by Monday if she's had enough, I'll know, and my vet will be available to us.

She's now peeing five or six times a day, but not yet this morning. Her breath is very bad.

I promised her no messing about to prolong her life. No more routine vet trips. But a trip today for fluids and cerenia will help her feel better. She's not ready TODAY, you know? Any other cat I could have done fluids and cerenia at home. But she won't tolerate it from me and I won't try to force it on her from me.

Her kidneys are failing, there's nothing I can do about that. But if I can help her feel a little better until she gets to that "had enough" point......

But only with meds I know won't affect her negatively. That frantic pacing from the Mirtaz with terrible. I would never do that to her again. The cerenia injection and fluids do help her without making her feel worse.

She's had her rescue remedy which always helps her. And I'm about to try some chicken slivers in broth hand fed. Just waiting for it to thaw.

I wish I could get her to purr. It's so therapeutic.
 
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 01, 2022, 10:57:24 AM
I'm so sorry you both are having such a hard time.  :(  I wish there was something I could say to make it easier.

Have you tried to purr to her?  Maybe that will help comfort her, too, even if she doesn't purr back.

((((HUGS))))  grouphug grouphug grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 01, 2022, 01:33:26 PM

Have you tried to purr to her?  Maybe that will help comfort her, too, even if she doesn't purr back.

((((HUGS))))  grouphug grouphug grouphug



No I hadn't thought of that.  I'll give it a go! thanks!

I called the vet this morning and asked if I could bring her in for ONLY fluids and a cerenia shot, even though my vet wasn't there. They actually called my vet at home and she approved the treatment. So it was a "tech appointment", no vet consult. Having never been in there on a Friday I didn't know what techs would be working and I was so worried it would be someone who doesn't know Mazy cat, know how to handle her and know to be gentle because she's so fragile now.

The place was awash with dogs, barking dogs, whining dogs, jumping dogs, pacing dogs, dogs dogs dogs, and I was trying to keep Mazy cat away from all the noise. I had just stood up to tell the receptionist we would wait outside for the tech, when to my relief, the tech who has known Mazy cat all her life, came walking out. I was so relieved to see her I burst into tears. I knew she would be as gentle and careful as she could be and I know she knows how to handle Mazy cat even in her worst fear aggression.. When she brought her back out, she was amazed that Mazy cat hadn't tried to bite her let alone even a hiss, I said "She just knows she needed help".

Once we got in the car I looked back at her and I could see she was brighter already. As soon as we got inside and I open the carrier door, she started going around bumping her head and rubbing her face on everything, and she was moving much better too.

I know I said I wasn't going to keep dragging her to the vet, and if she would accept these treatments at home I might have her with me longer. This was just an effort to get her through the weekend. If she's brighter on Monday, good. If she's started to fail again, it will be time.

Tech advised me to wait a couple hours before attempting to offer her food again and I will follow that advice. By then it will be 24 hours since her last meal.
 

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 01, 2022, 07:08:30 PM
I'm probably going to say good bye to her tomorrow morning. She brightened up right after the fluids, but her kidneys are going fast. I can smell it on her. I'm sorry I didn't let her go today, but..she really wasn't quite ready and I had to try, with the fluids. It will be a rough night for me and I'll be on the phone in the morning..barring miracles.

I hate that she won't have her own vet, but it can't be helped. I can't make her suffer all weekend for that. Maybe her life long vet tech will be there again or at least one of the others she knows.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 02, 2022, 06:30:06 AM
We're up and I'm still dithering. If my vet were there this morning I wouldn't hesitate but oh I hate to make her go under a stranger's care. She won't eat and her smell is very strong. But she still is going back and forth from her heating pad bed to the hot air vent and back.

She's not drinking either.

The night was long she wanted my face turned to hers and me petting her the whole night. I have to carry her to the litter box, she won't go on her own.

Queen Eva is ignoring the whole thing. Not just letting Mazy cat be, as she was before, but pretending she isn't here at all now. I expect she knows what's happening and is going into her denial phase, she has such a hard time with loss.

Well I have about an hour to make up my mind. If I chose not to bring her today, if she crashes tomorrow I'll have to drive her to Sidney, more strangers, plus a long drive plus a strange place.

I'm still talking to her about it.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 02, 2022, 10:00:11 AM
Mazy cat is with Tolly now
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 04, 2022, 10:43:56 AM
 :'( :'( :'(

I'm so, SO sorry.  Sending major HUGS your way.

How is Queen Eva handling it?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 04, 2022, 04:05:34 PM
Queen Eva is doing a little better this evening.  Still not eating much. I'm hoping she's going to turn out to be one of those cats who decided they LOVE being the only. After all she's been at the bottom of the heap all her life.  Perhaps she'll thrive in new ways now.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 05, 2022, 05:41:55 AM
She ate her first breakfast meal. All of it. After playing String Game with me for a good 10 minutes. She really isn't looking for Mazy cat at all, she knows what happened to her I am positive.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 05, 2022, 10:47:23 AM
Queen Eva is doing a little better this evening.  Still not eating much. I'm hoping she's going to turn out to be one of those cats who decided they LOVE being the only. After all she's been at the bottom of the heap all her life.  Perhaps she'll thrive in new ways now.

It wouldn't surprise me.  She is, after all, a Queen.  :)   queencc

It took Pookie some time to adjust after his sister was gone, since she was the one In Charge and would get the prime spot on my lap, but he adapted after a while.  I think he did miss her for a time but came to enjoy having my lap all to himself.

She ate her first breakfast meal. All of it. After playing String Game with me for a good 10 minutes. She really isn't looking for Mazy cat at all, she knows what happened to her I am positive.

That's wonderful that she ate and played!   thumbsup1  I'm sure she does know what happened, esp. since Mazy cat was sick.  Maybe Mazy's paid her a visit, or one of your other Angel kitties, to let her know that Mazy is ok and isn't sick anymore.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 12, 2022, 07:38:43 AM
By the weekend Queen Eva was back on her normal diet much to my relief. I am positive she knew Mazy cat was leaving us. In retrospect I mean. The way she distanced herself from Mazy cat, in the last couple of weeks, acting like Mazy cat wasn't here at all, I now realize was her way of coping and protecting herself. She didn't do that with Jennie, but every situation is different and somehow she figured out this was the best way for Herself to cope with this loss.

I've seen a few very brief glimpses, just wisps really, of Mazy cat and she's been to me in dreams three times, two of those times she is either showing me cats she has met or is showing me cats she thinks I should meet, I'm not sure which.  I continue to remind her (and Tolly and Jennie) that I don't want any more cats right now.  Queen Eva is going to be Queen of the Roost for the remainder of her life, and then we'll see.

The first Mazy cat and other cat dream was (sparing you the long convoluted stuff) Mazy cat was with a tiny little black boy kitten who she was very much obviously in love with.  When I woke up I reminded her (and the others) No More Cats

The second other cat dream was early this morning, again I'll spare you al the details (my dreams are very vivid) there was a big long haired red cat. In that dream I was actually making arrangements to take him home, though in the back of my mind there was something puzzling me about me already seeing him and Mazy cat sleeping and mutual grooming together (something Mazy cat never did in real life).  I knew there was something wrong about it but in the dream I kept moving forward with the adoption. When I woke up I felt great relief that it was a dream.

I am listed as guardian in case of "dying or unable to care for" of two friends' cats. One is 8 years old and lives in California, but the arrangements are in place to send her to me. The other is still only a kitten, and I know her well already, she's a very special girl,  but my friend's mother lived to be 96, so she is unlikely to fall into my hands, which is fine. :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 12, 2022, 07:24:27 PM
Aww, I'm glad Mazy's visiting you, even if they are brief glimpses.  And I'm glad Queen Eva is doing better.   thumbsup1  Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 21, 2022, 09:40:49 PM
When I started this thread it was because I already had so many other scattered threads about feeding Mazy cat I wanted it all in one place. At the beginning of this thread, summer 2016 she was down to 9 meals a day (from the 22 when I first went to raw!) and I was celebrating getting 0.55 ounce into her at one meal. Fast forward through about 40 pages and 4 or 5 years there were some major improvements over time. She was eating one whole ounce at a time for supper meal, and down to five meals a day before she went into her final decline. There were times she would go 3 weeks between vomits. That was major progress seen from the other direction.

I did all I could and I got her as far as she could go, with her digestive disabilities. I really do believe that.

My quality of life has already improved, not having the work and worry of taking care of Mazy cat. It was a 24 hour a day job. But I miss her so much. I just can't seem to take it in, that she's gone. It all happened so fast at the end. I knew she was failing, I even mentioned she was in Love and Cheese Danish phase. But all of a sudden it seemed like..she was gone.

Sometimes I have to stare at pictures of her, I feel like I can't remember what she looked like or how she was, how we were together. I suppose that's just shock and all that will come back to me in time.  I miss her so much. I just miss her so much.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 22, 2022, 02:01:29 PM
I did all I could and I got her as far as she could go, with her digestive disabilities. I really do believe that.

You absolutely did, and you did an AWESOME job taking care of her.

My quality of life has already improved, not having the work and worry of taking care of Mazy cat. It was a 24 hour a day job. But I miss her so much. I just can't seem to take it in, that she's gone. It all happened so fast at the end. I knew she was failing, I even mentioned she was in Love and Cheese Danish phase. But all of a sudden it seemed like..she was gone.

Sometimes I have to stare at pictures of her, I feel like I can't remember what she looked like or how she was, how we were together. I suppose that's just shock and all that will come back to me in time.  I miss her so much. I just miss her so much.

grouphug grouphug grouphug  Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1 Hug1
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on June 06, 2022, 03:37:47 PM
It's funny, the things that stick in your head.  You know what I miss? Mazy cat's Gravity Experiments.  She was really dedicated to that Game. Tolly was too, but Mazy cat was especially devoted.  Queen Eva doesn't do Gravity Experiments at all.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on November 05, 2022, 08:09:00 AM
I'm grateful for this thread. I've just read the entire thing, over the past week.  I seem to need reminding again and again that I did right by her at the end.  I just miss her so much. The ache hasn't faded at all yet, I just miss her so much.

Something I didn't mention here though...

You know I had that 'gate' up to keep Mazy cat in the kitchen for 10 minutes after meals.  She never liked that gate, but she adjusted to it. I always felt bad about it, but after that one episode of me chasing her around screaming "not on the rug" I knew I had to do something.

Mazy cat's last couple of weeks, she had figured out how to get the gate open along the edge and let herself out.  She did that for several days and I let her, and was glad she had taken action on her own behalf, and then finally, I just stopped using it, because I was pretty much feeding her wherever she was at the moment.

But I like remembering that she took matters into her own hands, when she felt she no longer needed that gate, and got herself out.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 06, 2022, 11:52:38 AM
grouphug

I know how you feel.  While I don't miss the stress and work of caring for Kitty, I miss having my furry friend rubbing against my legs during meal prep, or sitting next to me on the recliner and purring when I would pet her.  Heck, I still miss Pookie and his sister.  Now and then, I go back to what Dr. Pitcairn wrote:  "You did your best at that time" and "No one could have done what you did for your friend.  It was a gift."  Sometimes those words help, sometimes not so much.  Anyway, this isn't to make this about me at all, but I just wanted you to know that you're not alone.  grouphug

As for the gate:  what a clever girl!  :)

Have you seen her lately?
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on November 17, 2022, 09:50:39 AM
Thinking of you . . .
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 04, 2022, 08:19:30 AM
I still miss Mazy cat so much. Her presence, her Game Inventions, her prrts and songs...all of it. But now, only now, I'm starting to realize that what I miss most is the mental connection we had together.

Some cats are just...they are soul mates, a part of you in a way that can't really be described. It's a mental connection as well as heart and soul. I love Queen Eva with all my heart but she is Herself first and foremost.  Mazy cat was all about me in a different way. And Tolly was too. My first Red Boy, Baby, too. Ootay, when she got older, also came to be one of those "heart" cats. Sissy, Bibbs, Jennie..I loved them just as much, but there was a difference, there wasn't that sense of mental connection that I had with Baby, then Tolly and Mazy cat.

Who knows maybe as Queen Eva gets older (she's 12 1/2 years old) I might feel that mental bond with her. But what Mazy cat and I had, a mental connection as well as heart.....I miss that.

With only one cat, you have what you have, there is no other.  I'll see it through but not only do I miss the mental connection I had with Mazy cat, I miss having multiple cats.  I've never been a single cat household before. Well, not since I was 22 and had just Baby. But by the time I was 24 I had Sissy and never again did I only have one cat, until now.

Not even growing up. One of the cats was mine particularly, but there was always a houseful of cats.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 30, 2022, 05:28:16 AM
Another thing I miss....Mazy cat's huff of annoyance.  She could express annoyance like no other cat ever. I miss her so much.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on December 30, 2022, 01:51:49 PM
grouphug grouphug grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 31, 2022, 07:55:01 AM
Thanks Pookie.  I worry sometimes I'll forget her special things, so even though it hurts when I remember something else I miss about her, I'm glad I remembered it.  HeadButt
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on December 31, 2022, 03:10:53 PM
I'm reading a book I haven't read in about 3 years. Last night I turned the page and found a circle of Mazy cat's fur.  I don't know if you remember but I think I posted pictures once abut her fur and how curly it was when I combed her. The undercoat I mean, always came out curly in the comb.  I must have been combing her last time I read this book and pulled out the curly circle and put it in my book.  It's flat now of course but still so soft.  I put it back in the book.

Here I found a picture of her curly fur

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on January 08, 2023, 06:46:09 PM
Awww!  Wow, that IS curly!  What a nice keepsake.  :)
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on March 30, 2023, 03:53:23 PM
It's 3 days until the one year anniversary of Mazy cat leaving me. Gosh I miss her so much, I just miss her so much. I thought about her on her Gotcha Day of course, but didn't post. Even though I usually focus more on Gotcha Day dates rather than leaving dates. But this one just really hurts so much still. I suppose it's always like that and I just forget in between how long it drags on. Or maybe it's different when it's been years and years of special care, like Mazy cat was. And Ootay. And Tolly.

Bibbs', and Jennie's illnesses required special care too, but they were brief. The cancer was quick and fatal. Tolly's was too but he was special needs all his life.  Ootay was diagnosed with CKD at 13 and carried on for another almost 5 years with special care, so that was long term.

Going back even further, Baby was long term special care too (asthma and FLUTD) and his death was sudden (acute kidney failure) and my gosh it was such a shock (he was 15) it took me years to stop crying over him. Sissy was an old lady, very old, between 20-21, and failed quietly, due to the same stress that killed Baby, but she was a quiet keep to herself cat, and by the time I realized something was wrong it too late to do anything.  I hope she didn't suffer too much, before I noticed. I know so much more now than I did then, plus it was at the time when my marriage was breaking up (though I didn't know it yet) and home life was hellish.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 06, 2023, 09:09:25 AM
grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on April 10, 2023, 05:53:56 AM
Was hoping to get to the point of being able to remember all the wonderful things about living with Mazy cat without the pain and longing for her, but not there yet.
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on April 12, 2023, 08:16:53 AM
grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug grouphug
Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Middle Child on August 11, 2023, 05:29:45 AM
Gosh I just miss her so much. It's a never ending ache that just won't stop.  I'm trying now to remember the special things about her, trying to move past the grief and longing for her, and just enjoy knowing she was in my life for over 17 years.

I was thinking about her Long Nose Look of disapproval.  funny2

You can't really see it, but it's there, part of the telltale characteristic of her Long Nose Look was a tiny tuft of hair that sticks up at the back of her head. It's there, but unless you know what you are looking for, difficult to see

Title: Re: The on-going ever-evolving process of feeding Mazy cat
Post by: Pookie on August 12, 2023, 10:12:35 AM
grouphug grouphug grouphug  I know the feeling.  I still miss Pookie, Bonnie and Miss Kitty, and it's been years since the first two left.   :'(

When did she use the Long Nose Look of disapproval?  Was it mostly for certain meals, or if you were gone from home too long?

Has she visited you lately?

grouphug grouphug grouphug