Author Topic: Some pre-surgery questions  (Read 5364 times)

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Offline Pookie

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Some pre-surgery questions
« on: October 14, 2014, 05:54:30 PM »
Pookie goes in for his dental tomorrow.  I'm a bit nervous, even knowing it has to be done.  I'm not worried so much about the surgery, but giving him his meds when he's home and making sure he gets enough calories during his recovery, esp. since he's a bit overweight.  I was wondering:

1.  When would I be able to give him some RadCat (which is really soupy)?  Should I wait a couple of days before giving him any raw?
2.  Is there a store-brand chicken broth you could recommend?  Every one I looked at included onion and garlic.  I thought it might be handy to have to follow his meds, or at least add some flavor to his food if his appetite is off.  I really don't want to use tuna juice.
3.  How accurate are baby food labels?  I picked up a jar of turkey and jar of chicken, also as encouragement.  I've never given him baby food, though.  The labels only said turkey or chicken -- is it safe to assUme that they don't contain anything else?
4.  I did get the FortiFlora, so worst case scenario I can add that to his food to entice him if needed.  He LOVES it.
5.  I'm also going to have them check to see if his anal glands need expressing.  Now and then, he'll leave a smudge where he's sitting.  Please refresh my memory -- does he need water added to his food, or more fiber?  I don't think it was happening when I was giving him pumpkin for the hairballs this summer, but I don't want to give him pumpkin anymore.  (Side note:  the holistic vet suggested psyllium for the hairballs.  I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that, though).

For further down the road, I was also thinking of giving him hardboiled (free-range) eggs.  I have them a lot, and he seemed to like it when I gave him a taste.  Would 1 egg = 1 meal?  I have no idea how many calories that would be.   :-\  It might be soft enough to give him during his recovery, esp. if I mash it up for him.  Thoughts?

I have to remember to ask if the buprenorphine is available in tablet form, or if it can be mixed in his food.  Giving him liquid meds just doesn't work.

Any tips you all may have regarding his post-op care would be greatly appreciated, as well as what I can expect when he's home.  He's never had surgery before, and his sister had a dental but that was years ago.  Thanks in advance!   :-* :-* HeadButt HeadButt
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 05:56:19 PM by Pookie »
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Offline DeeDee

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2014, 06:31:08 PM »
Quote
2.  Is there a store-brand chicken broth you could recommend?  Every one I looked at included onion and garlic.  I thought it might be handy to have to follow his meds, or at least add some flavor to his food if his appetite is off.  I really don't want to use tuna juice.

Look for the different kinds that Progresso has. They even have an unsalted kind for heart patients like my parents.

http://www.progresso.com/products/broth

Quote
3.  How accurate are baby food labels?  I picked up a jar of turkey and jar of chicken, also as encouragement.  I've never given him baby food, though.  The labels only said turkey or chicken -- is it safe to assUme that they don't contain anything else?

They're accurate, and baby food is bland tasting as all get out. I never could get the boys to eat any of it without doctoring it up with things like salt. I don't know what those meat sources were fed though. I'd look for organic if it's out there. We decided to just start feeding them what we had, and I'd puree it for them.

Quote
For further down the road, I was also thinking of giving him hardboiled (free-range) eggs.  I have them a lot, and he seemed to like it when I gave him a taste.  Would 1 egg = 1 meal?  I have no idea how many calories that would be.   :-\  It might be soft enough to give him during his recovery, esp. if I mash it up for him.  Thoughts?

http://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/eggs-zl0z0703zswa.aspx <---nutrient charts are in there.

Keeping paws and tails crossed for Pookie!
"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog." Edward Hoagland
"Thorns may hurt you, men desert you, sunlight turn to fog; but you're never friendless ever, if you have a dog."

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2014, 06:34:49 PM »
Buprenex is not put down the throat.  It is a liquid, but it is squirted into the mouth, absorbed through the gums, NOT the stomach, so it doesn't work to put it in food.  It is VERY EASY to give, you should be given pre-dosed syringes.  You just squirt it into the mouth, aim for the gums.

I think the Rad Cat should be fine to feed him after.

Can you make some broth at home?  Do you have a crock pot?  There is also canned chicken, you should be able to find that without onion or garlic to use the liquid

I've never used baby food but everyone who advises it just says to check the ingredients and make sure there are no spices added, so I guess if nothing is listed it should be okay.

I don't give cooked eggs, I give raw yolks.  I go by weight and count the yolk as part of their total daily intake.  One whole egg is 70 calories.

I don't know what to tell you about the anal glands.  Jennie and Mazy both have problems with them, and they always have, regardless of diet, or fiber.  Mazy's been on the Vet's-Best for 6 months, and she still needs them expressed.  Jennie gets bone on Sundays and pumpkin on Wednesdays and she still has trouble.

I don't know if they can be expressed on an unconscious (there may need to be muscle tension?) cat but it's worth asking, anyway.

What anesthesia is being used? Recovery/wake up time depends a lot on what the vet uses.  I allow only Sevoflurane gas anesthesia.   It is very fast acting, no pre-gas cocktails are needed and they wake up quickly.  Very safe.  Expensive, though, but worth it.

Also confirm with vet that he will be on a drip through out the procedure.  Very important.

He'll be very wobbly when he gets home.  Keep him in one safe room if possible.  They always tell you to wait until the next day to feed (because of the possibly of vomiting) but I never do.  Just feed tiny meals, spaced an hour or so apart.

Ask what kind of stitches, if any, for the extraction.  Are they doing x rays while he's under?

All paws crossed for him, and for you, I'm sure he will be fine, and soon this will all be over! xxxxxxx

Offline Lola

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2014, 06:40:05 PM »
I think you will be very surprised how fast Pookie will "bounce" back.  I would have to check my posts here, but I am fairly sure all mine (that had actual dental surgery) were back to normal within 2 days.. 3 max.  I would describe them as a little sluggish, at the most.  Their food intake was a non-issue.  It was less, but not less enough that it made me worry.  I fed canned and occasional chunks (snacks) of hearts and gizzards, at the time.  In fact, being the dope that I am... I fed Lucy a raw chunk, within a week after her surgery.  I felt TERRIBLE, but she ate it like normal. 

They all got liquid pain meds 5 times... 12 hours apart.  For one, I "shot" it into her mouth...cheek side.  The other two, I had to mix it in their food.  <----I SPECIFICALLY asked if that was okay.   >:(
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 06:55:39 PM by Lola »
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Offline Lola

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2014, 06:42:10 PM »
Quote
it doesn't work to put it in food.
  :o

Go with MC's advice...
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2014, 06:49:23 PM »
The problem is, Pookie really fights me giving liquid meds.  I hurt my knee a few years ago and can't kneel, and even just trying to squirt it in his mouth, unless he's tired and out-of-it, is going to be a struggle.  I don't want him so scared of me that he hides, like the last time I tried to give him the amoxicillin.  That's why I was hoping for a pill.  I can pill him, but liquid meds are another story.   :(  So how am I supposed to give it to him?   :'(

Yes, I have a crock pot, but I think it's a little late now to try to make a broth, even if I knew how.  I'm not very good in a kitchen.   :-[

I've tried to give Pookie raw egg, but I don't think he likes the texture.  I was thrilled when he seemed to like the hardboiled egg, since I don't have to worry about what I used to cook it, like I would with scrambled eggs.  I would guess the calories don't change just because it's cooked, right?

I don't know about the anesthesia, and to be honest, I'm so overwhelmed with all of this that I just don't think I can handle getting into that right now.  I know that sounds really selfish, but my brain is mush these days.  No offense.

I think they will be doing x-rays, I assUme when he's under.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 06:58:31 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Lola

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2014, 06:57:00 PM »
I will just add and bale out...

Good luck tomorrow.  Pookie and YOU will be just fine.  Be thinking of you both.  xo
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2014, 06:58:59 PM »
I will just add and bale out...

Good luck tomorrow.  Pookie and YOU will be just fine.  Be thinking of you both.  xo

Thanks, Lola!   HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2014, 07:01:49 PM »
Nothing you say sounds selfish.

I PROMISE you, giving the buprenex will be easy. It's not like you are trying to get a syringe full of liquid down his throat.  All you have to do is get it in his mouth.  Even on the tongue, that is all that is needed.  It's like a nitroglycerin tablet, it is absorbed through the mucus membranes.  And it's a tiny tiny amount. Just slip the syringe (it's very slim) into his mouth while he's sleeping and plunge.  It just has to be in the mouth.  He probably won't need more than a couple of doses.

IF you really think you need pills, ask if they have any torbogesic.  That's the only pain reliever safe for cats I know of that comes in pill form. It's very effective, I just don't know if vets keep it on hand any more because too many (too many) use metacam, and the rest use buprenex (or tramadol, but as far as I know that is liquid too, and that does have to go through the digestive tract).

I'm sorry I mentioned the anesthesia, it's just an automatic question for me.  Don't worry about it now.  Forget I said anything.

Until it's over, everything about it is going to seem huge and overwhelming to you.  This is perfectly normal.

HOWEVER, you and Pookie are deeply bonded.  The after care..you will be fine.  You will know what is right to do for him.  Trust yourself.  Easy for me to say, but I believe what I am saying.  He will get trough it will flying  colors, you will be amazed at how much better he will feel, you will be really amamzed, and all will be well.

Be gentle with yourself, if you can.  I tell you that, but in the same breath assue you that freaking out is a normal way to feel.

BReathe, breathe, breathe.  And DON'T FORGET TO EAT AND especially DRINK, YOURSELF.  you've BEEN CRYING ALOT, i KNOW.  aRE YOU DRINKING ENOUGH TO REHYDRATE?

Breathe. Drink. Eat.

Offline Pookie

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2014, 07:10:29 PM »
Nothing you say sounds selfish.

I PROMISE you, giving the buprenex will be easy. It's not like you are trying to get a syringe full of liquid down his throat.  All you have to do is get it in his mouth.  Even on the tongue, that is all that is needed.  It's like a nitroglycerin tablet, it is absorbed through the mucus membranes.  And it's a tiny tiny amount. Just slip the syringe (it's very slim) into his mouth while he's sleeping and plunge.  It just has to be in the mouth.  He probably won't need more than a couple of doses.

Oh, I hope it's a very small amount.  The amoxicillin was I think a full milliliter, and the syringe was so far out I could barely get my thumb on the plunger.  A small dose, if the planets align just right  :), might be doable.  I had visions of a huge syringe full of the pain medication, and I just didn't see that happening.  Thanks for the info about torbogesic - that's good to know, just in case.

Quote
I'm sorry I mentioned the anesthesia, it's just an automatic question for me.  Don't worry about it now.  Forget I said anything.

No, I know you mean well, and I didn't mean to snap at you.  I'm sorry.

Quote
aRE YOU DRINKING ENOUGH TO REHYDRATE?

Probably not.  I'm working on it.   HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt HeadButt

Quote
  There is also canned chicken, you should be able to find that without onion or garlic to use the liquid
  That's a great idea, MC!  I didn't even think of that.  Doh1  I miss my mind . . .
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 07:20:08 PM by Pookie »
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2014, 07:22:11 PM »
Sorry about the caps, didn't mean to yell.  I wish I could show you how tiny the syringe is, and how small the amount.  I have one here, but it's not photographing well.  the dose is .1 ML, that one tenth of a ml.  And the syringe is so slim

Try this.  I've pulled the stop up to the .1 ml dose, so you can see how small amount it is. That is a normal sized pen for contrast Click on pic to enlarge

Offline Pookie

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2014, 07:23:35 PM »
Look for the different kinds that Progresso has. They even have an unsalted kind for heart patients like my parents.

http://www.progresso.com/products/broth

They're accurate, and baby food is bland tasting as all get out. I never could get the boys to eat any of it without doctoring it up with things like salt. I don't know what those meat sources were fed though. I'd look for organic if it's out there. We decided to just start feeding them what we had, and I'd puree it for them.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/homesteading-and-livestock/eggs-zl0z0703zswa.aspx <---nutrient charts are in there.

Keeping paws and tails crossed for Pookie!

Thanks, Dee!   :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Offline Pookie

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2014, 07:28:57 PM »
Sorry about the caps, didn't mean to yell.  I wish I could show you how tiny the syringe is, and how small the amount.  I have one here, but it's not photographing well.  the dose is .1 ML, that one tenth of a ml.  And the syringe is so slim

Try this.  I've pulled the stop up to the .1 ml dose, so you can see how small amount it is. That is a normal sized pen for contrast Click on pic to enlarge

I didn't think you were yelling, no worries.   :)  And if you were listening closely, you might have heard me say "Thank God" when I saw the amount on the syringe.  That might be do-able, if he doesn't freak on me or if I can be sneaky about it.  I don't know how much he remembers of the last time I was near him with a syringe  :( but I'm hoping he's already forgotten about it.  fingerscrossed  Thank you for going to the trouble to take a picture of it!

So that .1 ml is enough to stop the pain?  Wow, that must be some pretty potent stuff!
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Offline Middle Child

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2014, 07:29:17 PM »
I have to go to bed now, but I will be thinking of you and precious Pookie tomorrow.  Please remember to eat and drink, especially drink. It is so important to stay hydrated.  You will feel better, cope better, think better, if you drink (water, juice, etc, is what I mean  ;D).

In case you missed it I did post a pic of the syringe buprenex comes in, up above your reply to Dee.

See, lots of ideas here, it will be okay.  Much love to you both

Offline Middle Child

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Re: Some pre-surgery questions
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2014, 07:31:52 PM »
I didn't think you were yelling, no worries.   :)  And if you were listening closely, you might have heard me say "Thank God" when I saw the amount on the syringe.  That might be do-able, if he doesn't freak on me or if I can be sneaky about it.  I don't know how much he remembers of the last time I was near him with a syringe  :( but I'm hoping he's already forgotten about it.  fingerscrossed  Thank you for going to the trouble to take a picture of it!

So that .1 ml is enough to stop the pain?  Wow, that must be some pretty potent stuff!

I think it has to do with the way it is absorbed.  It's like those nitroglycerin things, you know the heart attack pills?  Absorbed through the mucus membranes, so it's used quickly,  it goes right to the pain center, doesn't have to go through the digestive process.  20-30 minutes to kick in, and the cat is usually high as a kite.  I gave doses to Queen Eve right through the bars of her Castle after her surgery when she had to be caged for two weeks.  That's how easy it is.  She came to the edge opened her mouth to sniff the little bit of mayonnaise (tiny drop) I had ready on my finger and I shot the syringe, then smeared the mayo on her lips.  she never knew a thing :)


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